Sins having best DPS in game
Comments
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Ephemerai - Sanctuary wrote: »This thread was a specific response to a specific challenge raised in another thread, Giodia.
No need to make it another "QQ everyone's better than you, you suck and no one wants you"-fest. Note that YOU are the one trying to turn it into such a thread, not anyone else...
I beg to differ. I have mentioned numerous times that sins will be good at pvp.
What I am trying to say is: Wait till you get whatever gear and skills you need, before arguing.
Arguing at the 'potential' is pretty pointless.0 -
Giodia, please read the first post of the thread.
I believed this thread was a consequence of a dispute between the thread started and another person.
Edit: My wife beat me to it xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Panda, many people know that the lunar daggers have strange, undesirable procs/bonuses. Please consider the re-casted TT99, for I believe those are the ones that give -.1 interval.
Seriously, I just have to show how pathetic sins are for PVE. If sins wanna argue about potential, wait till they can show us concrete proof with concrete skills.0 -
No, it's not pointless.
That's like saying formulating hypotheses are pointless for the scientific field.
Yes, hypotheses need to be proven.
But forming conjectures is an integral part of the scientific method.
Arguing is pointless, but cooperative discussion is not.
And why do you have to show "how pathetic sins are for PVE"? Even the devs themselves rated sins 3/5 stars for PVE. It's well known that sins aren't favored in squads, but that's not what this thread is about.
It's important to remember that there are many aspects to PVE (not just squad play), although bloodpaint and rib strike do contribute a little in squads. But yeah, for example, there's a video on here of a sin soloing her BH ~ so sins aren't bad in all aspects of PVE.
Additionally, it is interesting to note that an endgame sin with ideal gear and bloodpaint may be a force to be reckoned with.0 -
Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
another skill they have is PD (Power Dash). this magnificent skill adds 40% crit rate. (NOT rage damage, to many ppl tested and CONFIRMED this) i dont think i need to explain the added benefits of a 40% crit rate increase with a class that already has naturally high criticals.
Does PD add 40% to the crit rate. Ie: Normal crit 30% + PD = 70%
Or
Does it add 40% of your crit rate Ie: Normal crit 30% + 40% of normal crit (12%) = 42%
??0 -
I never consented to marriage with anyone !!!
Giodia - Sorry for the misinterpretation, but the nature of your previous post made it seem very much so that you were trying to turn this into another hate thread.
True, it is sometimes useless to argue potential, but nevertheless - this thread was created to address someone's challenge in another thread. So just let it be; they've worked out most of their conflict (if that's what you want to call it), there's no need to cause more conflict.
@ ChaoticTears - it adds X% to your crit rate. If you had Y% base crit rate, you'd have (X+Y)% crit rate with PD.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ephemerai - Sanctuary wrote: »I never consented to marriage with anyone !!!
but..but........ b:sad0 -
ChaoticTears - Harshlands wrote: »Does PD add 40% to the crit rate. Ie: Normal crit 30% + PD = 70%
Or
Does it add 40% of your crit rate Ie: Normal crit 30% + 40% of normal crit (12%) = 42%
??
the first one. if u have 30% crit rate in ur char menue then PD add on will make it 70% if PD is maxed. at lvl 1 it adds 22% tho which is still a decent ammount of crit rate being added even at lvl 1.
also its best not to argue with giodia. if she doesnt want "fishies" in her squads for w/e her biased reasons may be then so be it. if u see her simply join another squad. or u can join her squad to **** her off and make her rage quit and leave the squad. its not like any squad needs a giodia in it afterall b:chuckle
and that goes for anyone who doesn't want a tideborn in there squad. segregating/not accepting a class based soley on its race sounds very familiar doesnt it?0 -
So what if you are the best dps in game? Need a trophy?
seems like its accepted that sins are the best dps. strange tho that for that to happen we had to go over a ****load of text and flames...so useless...
Strange Giodia what convinced u otherwise? since the arguments and theories didn't change as well as the arguments for this statement.0 -
Cool post. After the sage/demon skills come, show me a video. I don't like it when someone shouts "absolute truths" and they have no proof. But in case someone shows a proof to it, I believe it. I'm not as stubborn as I look like b:laugh
Anyway, I gave you a mission (I think I was the one who said to you to get the proof). You show me a video, and I'll believe in case no-one can get better DPS with a hell sparked fist BM. But here is the problem: someone will surely post a video of demon fist BM dps, but the problem is they might have +12 weapons and other godly gear. If you don't, bad luck.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Well, that Solandri endorses your logic does go some way into giving credit to this "sins as highest dps" hypothesis. However i still refuse to acknowledge that this makes math redundant.
What i need would be something like this;
"A level 100 sin has an attack of XXXX using XXXX daggers (or at least a reasonable estimate of what a high lvl dagger would do), XXXX gear, and skills XXXX and XXXX (including figures for casting, channeling and cooldown) which could SUSTAIN (this is dps, not highest spike) an average of XXXX damage per second."
Now, that's exactly what i need. Fill in the blanks and i can use the average dps to compare with other classes.
As the person who made the challenge i will publicly acknowledge and concede the point IF the discussion is taken out of abstract concepts, and brought to specifics which allow for a real comparison, and not just a discussion of theoretical concepts.
Only numbers will confirm the soundness of this theory IMO.0 -
no, Sins do not have the best DPS in game because you cant hit anything when your dead
BMs & barbs have the best because they can take the hits and therefore keep the damage up unlike Sins...0 -
I've used Power Dash on several occasions myself but never noticed any solid crit rate increase (and the status screen doesn't show it).
Next time I use it I will compare a normal crit damage to PD'd crit damage and calculate the potential increase in damage, because I don't know where all the sins are getting this increased crit rate **** from other than the little icon. My BM only has 17% crit rate but has managed to dish out 7 crits in a row.
On the topic, I would actually applaud it if this theory wasn't claimed as a concrete evidence to Sins being THE best DPS class. It is a theory no matter how sound it is, thus it should be treated as a theory and not a fact as there are still unknown variables that may make it crumble. Until a Sin manages to get himself all the required elements to support this, Sins are NOT the best DPS class.0 -
If a charmless lv69 assassin can tank 2-2 astral with 1 8x cleric, a 99+ can tank a lot, especially if you attack 3 times as fast with much higher damage meaning your bloodpaint will support you. That and 66% of the time you avoid 25% of the hits...BIaze_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »no, Sins do not have the best DPS in game because you cant hit anything when your dead
BMs & barbs have the best because they can take the hits and therefore keep the damage up unlike Sins...Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.0 -
Duh . . . b:surrender please don't think, assassin tank like a barbarian.BIaze_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »no, Sins do not have the best DPS in game because you cant hit anything when your dead
BMs & barbs have the best because they can take the hits and therefore keep the damage up unlike Sins...
And please don't add. "hates for the new class"
But i am agree, that low lv assassin can't tank. b:laugh
But at last they can wear bow to do ranged damage. (use critical buff with dagger then switch to bow, though i wonder is 30 second worth it . .)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »If a charmless lv69 assassin can tank 2-2 astral with 1 8x cleric, a 99+ can tank a lot, especially if you attack 3 times as fast with much higher damage meaning your bloodpaint will support you. That and 66% of the time you avoid 25% of the hits...
yes thats it take all the low damage dealing boss and say they can tank
what about bosses that do alot more damage?
o and bloodpaint dont do much when your taking 1k+ damage a hit0 -
MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Duh . . . b:surrender please don't think, assassin tank like a barbarian.
please point out where i said they can tank like a barb0 -
BIaze_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »no, Sins do not have the best DPS in game because you cant hit anything when your dead
BMs & barbs have the best because they can take the hits and therefore keep the damage up unlike Sins...BIaze_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »yes thats it take all the low damage dealing boss and say they can tank
what about bosses that do alot more damage?
o and bloodpaint dont do much when your taking 1k+ damage a hit
so basically what your saying is if a sin cant tank they cant DPS right? so i guess barbs and BMs tanking while the DD class DDs is no longer a strategy in this game anymore huh?
or maybe by your logic HP and Defense adds to overall DPS.0 -
Ha Ha b:laugh that me say wrong things, sorry Blaze. b:laugh
What i mean is like what Ballistixz said. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
Slightly off-topic: what's the attack speed of Daggers? I cannot access the game at the moment, and I need to update my guide.0
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They were 1,25 atk / sec.Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »Slightly off-topic: what's the attack speed of Daggers? I cannot access the game at the moment, and I need to update my guide.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
My thanx, Lady MoonUsagi.0
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Fist BM has more dps, because they have faster attack and faster chi gain 5 instead of 4, faster chi means more sparks, more sparks means higher dps.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »so basically what your saying is if a sin cant tank they cant DPS right? so i guess barbs and BMs tanking while the DD class DDs is no longer a strategy in this game anymore huh?
or maybe by your logic HP and Defense adds to overall DPS.
No. what im saying is, Sins cant do the highest DPS because if they do they will get killed. yes im sure they can do 5 attacks a second but when they do they will get killed from hard hitting bosses, therefore there damage gose down too 0.0 -
Starchief - Sanctuary wrote: »Fist BM has more dps, because they have faster attack and faster chi gain 5 instead of 4, faster chi means more sparks, more sparks means higher dps.
sin has 5 chi as well as 5 attacks per second if i recall right.0 -
BIaze_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »No. what im saying is, Sins cant do the highest DPS because if they do they will get killed. yes im sure they can do 5 attacks a second but when they do they will get killed from hard hitting bosses, therefore there damage gose down too 0.
By this logic, any other class that isn't meant to be a "tank" isn't a contender for highest DPS. This leaves out every class in the game except about two. This doesn't make sense.Starchief - Sanctuary wrote: »Fist BM has more dps, because they have faster attack and faster chi gain 5 instead of 4, faster chi means more sparks, more sparks means higher dps.
Sins gain 5 chi per hit. They also have skills to give them 200, 150, and 50 chi.0 -
ok this is damage per second. A sin base attack is 1.25 attack per second. A fist BM has 1.43 base attack unbuffed. 1.43>1.25. End of dissucion i dont know y it took 9 pages to establish that buy yeah. w/ demon spark BM would still have more dps cuz of his base. Also sins really arent supposed to dps a mob or a boss. They're skills are for spaming. There's a sin buff that lowers attack rate to increase damage. Sin's were meant to deal a lot of damage in a single hit. I dont understand why as a Light Armor user you would want to have a high dps rather than just high damage attacks. Compared to Heavy Armor users we deal low amounts of damage because we can take alot of hits that what we were meant for. Squishy's cant take that many hits that's why they have to 1 or 2 hit something to stay alive, they cant afford to take alot of damage. You cant really look at it as 1 class being better than the other because each one has it's own niche. For example: In PvP a Blademaster just using his given class skills no genie skills would need to buid up some chi in order to take someone out around their same level. It probably wont be a 1shot either unless they crit a few times. A Sin however has skills that give them chi right of the bat. A BM does too but Sin's cna gain more in a quick amount of time. The sin could probably kill the other player in 1 or 2 hits w/out difficulty. That being said BM's were intended for AoE'ing and snareing mass groups of targets hence so many skills that have AoE. Sins were meant to kill single targets quickly hence so many of the chi gain skills and single target skills.I dont level Slow I just enjoy the game b:surrender0
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For those that just tuned in, here's the point(s) of this topic in a nutshell.
1.) If Sin gear/levels/skill levels/skills work like people say and are greater than BM: Sin DPS >>>>> BM DPS
2.) If BM... Sin: BM DPS >>>>> Sin DPS
3.) Some people think Sins can tank. Others think they can't. Rawring ensues on both sides.
4.) LOLsomuchmathevenClericsheadswillexplode
5.) Barbs will still get all the hawt action more often than not, regardless of outcomes here. b:laugh
Did I miss anything?0 -
Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »ok this is damage per second. A sin base attack is 1.25 attack per second. A fist BM has 1.43 base attack unbuffed. 1.43>1.25. End of dissucion i dont know y it took 9 pages to establish that buy yeah. w/ demon spark BM would still have more dps cuz of his base. Also sins really arent supposed to dps a mob or a boss. They're skills are for spaming. There's a sin buff that lowers attack rate to increase damage. Sin's were meant to deal a lot of damage in a single hit. I dont understand why as a Light Armor user you would want to have a high dps rather than just high damage attacks. Compared to Heavy Armor users we deal low amounts of damage because we can take alot of hits that what we were meant for. Squishy's cant take that many hits that's why they have to 1 or 2 hit something to stay alive, they cant afford to take alot of damage. You cant really look at it as 1 class being better than the other because each one has it's own niche. For example: In PvP a Blademaster just using his given class skills no genie skills would need to buid up some chi in order to take someone out around their same level. It probably wont be a 1shot either unless they crit a few times. A Sin however has skills that give them chi right of the bat. A BM does too but Sin's cna gain more in a quick amount of time. The sin could probably kill the other player in 1 or 2 hits w/out difficulty. That being said BM's were intended for AoE'ing and snareing mass groups of targets hence so many skills that have AoE. Sins were meant to kill single targets quickly hence so many of the chi gain skills and single target skills.
ask the bold part to cheezedude whos an archer thats soloing any kind of bosses with light armor and melee weapons.0 -
Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »ok this is damage per second. A sin base attack is 1.25 attack per second. A fist BM has 1.43 base attack unbuffed. 1.43>1.25. End of dissucion i dont know y it took 9 pages to establish that buy yeah. w/ demon spark BM would still have more dps cuz of his base. Also sins really arent supposed to dps a mob or a boss. They're skills are for spaming. There's a sin buff that lowers attack rate to increase damage. Sin's were meant to deal a lot of damage in a single hit. I dont understand why as a Light Armor user you would want to have a high dps rather than just high damage attacks. Compared to Heavy Armor users we deal low amounts of damage because we can take alot of hits that what we were meant for. Squishy's cant take that many hits that's why they have to 1 or 2 hit something to stay alive, they cant afford to take alot of damage. You cant really look at it as 1 class being better than the other because each one has it's own niche. For example: In PvP a Blademaster just using his given class skills no genie skills would need to buid up some chi in order to take someone out around their same level. It probably wont be a 1shot either unless they crit a few times. A Sin however has skills that give them chi right of the bat. A BM does too but Sin's cna gain more in a quick amount of time. The sin could probably kill the other player in 1 or 2 hits w/out difficulty. That being said BM's were intended for AoE'ing and snareing mass groups of targets hence so many skills that have AoE. Sins were meant to kill single targets quickly hence so many of the chi gain skills and single target skills.
Please read the first post in the thread. This discussion is about endgame sin dps. We are considering that both the sin and the bm have endgame gear, ie 5 hits per second.0
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