Sins having best DPS in game

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  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    waiting for swaze with the picture she took with the eye. apparently it shows an increase in something, she went all caps locks on me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Daose - Harshlands
    Daose - Harshlands Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    waiting for swaze with the picture she took with the eye. apparently it shows an increase in something, she went all caps locks on me.

    Well actually it has been pretty much confirmed by quite a few ppl in the assassin forum that there is a noticeable difference in crit rate and no difference in rage damage. Not really hard to prove either...ijs
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Daose - Harshlands wrote: »
    Well actually it has been pretty much confirmed by quite a few ppl in the assassin forum that there is a noticeable difference in crit rate and no difference in rage damage. Not really hard to prove either...ijs
    whether i be incorrect or not, it doesnt change the fact, 95% of his argument is just words, without numbers, proofs, or realistic ways for the assassin to actually out perform a BM in the damage dealing department.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    whether i be incorrect or not, it doesnt change the fact, 95% of his argument is just words, without numbers, proofs, or realistic ways for the assassin to actually out perform a BM in the damage dealing department.

    theres actually a few vids of a sin soloing BH 59 and BH 79 and doing more dmg then most fist BMs at that lvl are doing if you are not factoring in demon spark. she is just severly lacking in the atk speed department. and her gear is about only average at best. u can go check urself if u want.

    unless u want me to get that for u to o-o.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    theres actually a few vids of a sin soloing BH 59 and BH 79 and doing more dmg then most fist BMs at that lvl are doing. she is just severly lacking in the atk speed department. and her gear is about only average at best. u can go check urself if u want.

    unless u want me to get that for u to o-o.
    your point? archer can do that too, at the cost of a little charm ****.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ok, dude, just the same way you went out of your way to prove increased hit rate but with numbers. You can use a calc for geebus sake...
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    your point? archer can do that too, at the cost of a little charm ****.


    it was in response to this
    out perform a BM in the damage dealing department


    that was my point. soloing a BH was not my point tho.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    recast nirvana legs and adv revenge recast claws

    theres the bm counterpoint

    also dex is a static dmage add while strength has a multiplying effect of weapon damage last i looked

    imo it all comes down to 2 things at 100+

    dagger vs fist refine rate

    and possible animation speed cap

    if those work right sins greater than bm's at 100+ but before that they have vastly lower DPS due to the way intreval stacks
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    recast nirvana legs and adv revenge recast claws

    theres the bm counterpoint

    also dex is a static dmage add while strength has a multiplying effect of weapon damage last i looked

    imo it all comes down to 2 things at 100+

    dagger vs fist refine rate

    and possible animation speed cap

    if those work right sins greater than bm's at 100+ but before that they have vastly lower DPS due to the way intreval stacks


    just for curiosity sake, what is your str and physical attack with fists?
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    50lolol.png

    and this is without dragon bane |:.... id guess he just got R8 for the hot ring and armor it gives :o, math can conclude this is with a +7 lunar claw
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    50lolol.png

    and this is without dragon bane |:.... id guess he just got R8 for the hot ring and armor it gives :o, math can conclude this is with a +7 lunar claw

    is that with or without dragon spark?
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    it....it be over nine thousand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    b:shocked
    also most likely without....
    he be smacking an NPC.
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    is that with or without dragon spark?
    thats just plain spark.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    if a fair comparison is to be made you will have to factor in all the jewls/ornaments and refines and stuff he has to a similar lvl sin. especially since at that lvl he seems to only have 60 more str then i do with dex. so the str to dex gap between him and a sin should wident consierably at that lvl.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    find me a +7 lunar dagger's attack and ill make you a formula lol.

    formula =
    (garnet + ring + level + weapon damage) * (1 + str or dex / 150 + mastery + spark)

    youd input them as multipliers, demon spark = 5, 60% p.atk bonus form mastery as .6, etc

    weapon damage can be either the minimum or the maximum, either way you do this process twice.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    we dont have lunar weapons yet, but you can use +6 85 FC daggers if you want.

    atk rate is 480-719 with 0 refines which i think you already know since you have a pair of them i think

    and with +6 refine its 600-839. i guess you can + it till its the same atk rate as +7 lunars since those daggers will be good for awhile.
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Uhm jw. It was mentioned earlier.
    What's Dragon Spark?

    And yeah, just to re-confirm, Power Dash does indeed boost critical rate.
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i meant demon spark lol
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Then yeah, it's under demon spark. I don't think he could have reached 5 without it, unless if he's under spring's skill or something.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    whether i be incorrect or not, it doesnt change the fact, 95% of his argument is just words, without numbers, proofs, or realistic ways for the assassin to actually out perform a BM in the damage dealing department.
    Ballistixz has an annoying "nyah nyah, I'm right and you're wrong" way of saying things. But perusing the links he gave, his logic appears sound.

    He is eliminating the need for math by comparing from an equivalent baseline for both BM and Assassin. If they can both achieve the same atk/sec and both have the same triple spark, daggers have slightly higher average attack than fist weapons, Asassins have a higher crit rate, better offensive buffs, and Assassins get their damage from dex while a BM has to split his points between str (for damage) and dex (to equip fists).

    Basically, all these factors favor the Assassin, none favor the BM, which would mean the Assassin has the higher DPS.

    Where he's wrong is that it's a helluva lot harder for an Assassin to achieve 5 atk/sec than for a BM. Rank 8 is ~1 billion coin at 15k token prices, dunno how much Nirvana gear will be but it'll probably be on the order of several hundred million. The equipment a BM needs (most of which the Assassin would need as well) comes in at just ~350-450 mil.
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    dagger vs fist refine rate
    All the Nirvana weapons appear to have the same refine rate, regardless of whether it's labeled as grade 13 or grade 15. They all refine as if they were grade 15.
  • DrDrakken - Lost City
    DrDrakken - Lost City Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    skyxiii wrote: »
    Uhm jw. It was mentioned earlier.
    What's Dragon Spark?

    And yeah, just to re-confirm, Power Dash does indeed boost critical rate.

    SS pl0xb:shockedb:shocked
    [SIGPIC]T.T[/SIGPIC]
    (best i could do T_T)
    b:cryYou were the best CM everb:cry

    August 12 - I'm officially 15 b:pleased
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Slashreaver - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    sins in any game are always high dps. but sins lack hp and also lack the abilty to tank. bms and barbs dill that. bms can also aoe kill alot easier then a sin can.

    I play anther rpg where there are sins and they don't have the highest dps.It is the Warrior as I would tend to think for this game as well this being BM.Sins are good for hitting and running.I really wish they never brought sins into this fame as they ruined farming in my other rpg.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DrDrakken - Lost City wrote: »
    SS pl0xb:shockedb:shocked

    Sorry, I'm a little tight on time. Have a midterm to study for, so I'm not going to log on just to take a screenshot, but I know it's true. I steal aggro from DD players 9 levels higher than me with wolf emblem + double spark + power dash. The criticals are amazing.

    Here's a link from a previous page of this thread:
    http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6522/critrate1.png

    This is the icon we get when we use PD.

    If you'd like, we can meet up sometime and I'll show you the amount of crits I land with PD through a duel
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    umm... just to stop anymore doubts on the PD thing.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=610421

    pretty much 100% confirmed and official now that PD increases crit rate and NOT rage damage.
  • DrDrakken - Lost City
    DrDrakken - Lost City Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    umm... just to stop anymore doubts on the PD thing.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=610421

    pretty much 100% confirmed and official now that PD increases crit rate and NOT rage damage.

    oh wait... it takes 2 sparks? meh that'd be, like, actually reducing your dps by delaying demon spark imob:surrender

    spending that on demon HF is equalent to getting 100% crit rate for 9 secs o.o
    [SIGPIC]T.T[/SIGPIC]
    (best i could do T_T)
    b:cryYou were the best CM everb:cry

    August 12 - I'm officially 15 b:pleased
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    One of our skills is to gain 2 sparks instantly at lv 10. This pays completely for power dash.

    So we can effectively tri-spark + PD without potions.

    We also have 2 attack skills that give us chi, one gives us 150, the other one gives us 50.
  • panda119
    panda119 Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    hmm altho i do think sins have a high potential of being the best in dps, but if we're talkin about endgame u gotta compare the end game weaps.

    as of now comparing the lunar daggers to fists, it totally pales in comparison. dagger giving hp ?! lol
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    wow and thats in ur guild.....they're supposed to help u...well honestly i sure notice that sins are unwanted...we are the highest DDs and have the highest Dmg output but compared to archers range its nothing...we can'T kill all the mobs especially aoe bosses cause we get hit too hard. and when we use our bows to compensate for that we aren't even clsoe to archers who have longer range and skills....so in the end i really am wondering bout our job....the only thing i did so far is stealthing and opening dorrs ands aving time for our squad but honestly thats not that great.....and i will need my TT70 armor soon....hope sth will change and i can find our job...

    Read how pathetic this sin felt. He is feeling really emo as one can see from his mispellings and unneeded caps in words.

    So what if you are the 'POTENTIAL BEST DPS' ?

    Is this a way to get attention on your class so that we will want a sin in our squad runs because of this claim?

    Or is this a cry for help over the frustrations on a unfinished class?

    Seriously, I can bestow the title of 'BEST DPS' Awards to the sins and yet, they will still be without direction.
  • Ephemerai - Sanctuary
    Ephemerai - Sanctuary Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This thread was a specific response to a specific challenge raised in another thread, Giodia.

    No need to make it another "QQ everyone's better than you, you suck and no one wants you"-fest. Note that YOU are the one trying to turn it into such a thread, not anyone else...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • skyxiii
    skyxiii Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Giodia, please read the first post of the thread.
    I believed this thread was a consequence of a dispute between the thread started and another person.

    Edit: My wife beat me to it xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

    Panda, many people know that the lunar daggers have strange, undesirable procs/bonuses. Please consider the re-casted TT99, for I believe those are the ones that give -.1 interval.

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