Sins having best DPS in game

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

making this thread because a certain someone dared me to do it in a thread that will be unnamed since it has derailed into a gore fest of flames. the person who will read this will know who they are. anyway this thread is made to explain why a sin can potentially be the best DPSers in game. now before anyone starts with the flames (i know its coming...) im going to say this one little detail. even tho a sin is capable of being the best DPSers in game it will obviously be very expensive. not everyone is capable of doing it... if your rich enough then it can be done, the materials for you to do it is already in game even without the sin class being finished. only thing we are really missing is our 3rd spark which will come in time.


anyway people seem to think sins cant get 5 atk per second. this has been proven false and all you need to do is stack interval gear for sins in the game to figure it out. im not gonna really go into detail with this since most people SHOULD know what interval gear, which things give -intervals, and where to get them. if you do not then shame on you. but to help those kinds of people understand ill point them to this thread:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=593821

and heres one to tell you what interval is and how to calculate it:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279561

you can also check the PW database to see what gears give -interval

this should tell you all u need to know about how and where and what gear gives -intervals. if you still dont understand how you can get 5atk/sec from that then well go /wrist lol.


anyway now that we established a sin can get 5atk/sec i will go to my reasoning behind why i think sins have the potential to be the best DPSers in the game.

reason 1: Daggers. plain and simple. daggers get all of there damage from dex. crit rate also comes from dex. because of this they dont have to plan about how to balance there stats. they can just add full dex and they will have full power and full critical rates. it is an optimized DPS build for any DPSers. having BOTH crit rate and damage come from one stat with 5atk/sec.

of course tho you will think "well archers get damage and crit rate from dex to so whats your point?". well ima go over that in a min at the end of this post when i start to compare to other classes.

reason 2: skills. and no im not talking about skill spamming, im talking about the buff skills. wolf emblem for one which increases rage damage by 30% at max. so far no other class has a increase rage damage add on as far as i know. sins are the only class to increase there rage damage beyond the normal base of 200%. all classes start with 200% base rage damage and a sin can increase theres by 30%. this will make there criticals higher then the norm obviously and a sin is a crit heavy class.

another skill they have is PD (Power Dash). this magnificent skill adds 40% crit rate. (NOT rage damage, to many ppl tested and CONFIRMED this) i dont think i need to explain the added benefits of a 40% crit rate increase with a class that already has naturally high criticals.

and another is subsea strike. this is a amp skill. its not rly important but it can be used to do extra dmg to add to your DPS. its just a +30% amplified damage for a lil bit on the target and its a aoe.

all of these things on top of the 5atk/sec add to the DPS of a sin. but how do they stack up against the other DPS classes like fist BM and archers?

sin DPS vs fist BM dps: a fist BM is also capable of 5atk/sec but the thing is they have to balance there stats in order to use fist because fist are based on str but u also need a little bit of dex to wield them. so usually fist BMs split there stats to dex and str (and sometimes vit depending on the person) this will give the fist BM decent damage and decent critical hits but compared to a sin which gets both damage and crit rate from dex they will be lacking.

a sin will not be lacking at all, they will have more damage and more criticals including higher rage damage then a fist BM because of this. and daggers having higher phy atk then fists does not help.

sin DPS vs archer(fist/bow) DPS: well for fairness ima start with fist archers since they are capable of 5atk/sec. from what ive seen most fist archers do not go with the fist BM build. usually ive seen them use there own full dex archer build while only adding just enought str to wear fists. this way they have very high crit rate in order to make up for the lack of dmg they will be dealing.

when compared to a sins build again we have to look at the fact that a sin can go full dex and get full damage and full critical rates. so you have to ask yourself the question "how will that stack up against a fist archer who only adds just enought str to wear fists?" keep in mind that fists are powered by str. a fist archer will be severly lacking in the damage department compared to sin who just go full dex.

as for bow archers will i think thats self explanatory...

anyway im NOT saying this will make fist BMs and archers useless. BMs have FAR FAR to much versatility to be called useless... same with archers. a sin has its downsides aswell and not nearly as versatile as a BM.

anyway this is my reasoning to why i believe a sin has the potential to be the Best DPSers out there. the stuff is already in the game and you just merely have to work up to it.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

i wouldnt doubt it cause sin attack seemed faster to start off with, compared to the other starting classes. Just wish i could see a sin high lv and decked out with -interval gear like the current 95+ bms and archers.

RDM - Lost City

Pretty sure Hell Fist BM > Sin. Not only that, but BMs can actually tank **** while Sin's are squishy as hell.

Asperitas - Lost City

RDM - Lost City wrote: »

Pretty sure Hell Fist BM > Sin.

In DPS? What's your reasoning behind that statement?

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

RDM - Lost City wrote: »

Pretty sure Hell Fist BM > Sin. Not only that, but BMs can actually tank **** while Sin's are squishy as hell.

ya that is one of the downsides to sins i was talking about. a sin can and will never be able to tank like a fist BM can. there only back up skills are bloodpaint and deaden nerves. bloodpaint helps but it wont help against mobs that 1-2 shot sins.

and as for Hell fist BMs, well its only a matter of time before we see what sage/demon sins can do and only a matter of time before we get sage/demon sparks.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

problem is alot of the fist BM being compared are like 5-10lvls higher than that of the sin.

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Wont know till you sins get your sage/demon skills and as far as i know tideborns dont even have triple spark in the game yet.

Tideborn triple spark may differ like how venos triple spark differs from wizards.

No one is really going to know till all the gear and skills are put in.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Decep see that magic sword of yours? daggers attack as fast as that. Fist is faster by 0.1s

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Decep see that magic sword of yours? daggers attack as fast as that. Fist is faster by 0.1s

that doesnt matter if u knew what stuff gives -intervals. also daggers have a noticeably faster atk animation then magic swords.

NPH - Harshlands

I agree that Sins can DD quite well, and with alot of interval gear, they can be good. There are a few things that squads would always keep in mind though when choosing between a sin or BM(fist). First,a BM can easily out-tank a sin, considerin they have alot higher of defence, and considering the gear between the bm and sin is refined and sharded equally, the bm should have more hp, so a bm as a secondary tank. The second, is that, after looking through all of the different HH, FC, and CV weapons, I've come to a conclusion that fist weapons have A LOT better bonuses compared to daggers. For instance, the lvl 90 HH fist give the Zerk Bonus, he lvl 90 Daggers, give really nothing besides fairly high attack. Being a 10k hp barb, 7k def unbuffed, I've fought my share of pvp fights. I've gone against anywhere from 50-90 fist bms/sins, and to just say, I have personally never lost to a sin that is my level in a 1v1 fight. They can't deal enough damage to take me out, and I can normally manage to take them really fast. In my fights with fist bms, I normally die so much faster compared to a sin. A fist bm my level, can manage to easily kill me by double sparking to tick+finish me. Sins are sneaky and good at pking AA chars, but in my mind, Fist BM's will always be the best DPS there is.

Foxgrit - Lost City

_makina_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wont know till you sins get your sage/demon skills and as far as i know tideborns dont even have triple spark in the game yet.

Tideborn triple spark may differ like how venos triple spark differs from wizards.

No one is really going to know till all the gear and skills are put in.

the reason veno 3 spark is split between phys and magic is because foxform skills are phys based. all pure phys characters have same sparks and all pure magic characters have same sparks.

Slashreaver - Heavens Tear

sins in any game are always high dps. but sins lack hp and also lack the abilty to tank. bms and barbs dill that. bms can also aoe kill alot easier then a sin can.

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »

the reason veno 3 spark is split between phys and magic is because foxform skills are phys based. all pure phys characters have same sparks and all pure magic characters have same sparks.

Still nobody knows whats what till its in the game and that is my point.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

making this thread because a certain someone dared me to do it in a thread that will be unnamed since it has derailed into a gore fest of flames. the person who will read this will know who they are. anyway this thread is made to explain why a sin can potentially be the best DPSers in game. now before anyone starts with the flames (i know its coming...) im going to say this one little detail. even tho a sin is capable of being the best DPSers in game it will obviously be very expensive. not everyone is capable of doing it... if your rich enough then it can be done, the materials for you to do it is already in game even without the sin class being finished. only thing we are really missing is our 3rd spark which will come in time.


anyway people seem to think sins cant get 5 atk per second. this has been proven false and all you need to do is stack interval gear for sins in the game to figure it out. im not gonna really go into detail with this since most people SHOULD know what interval gear, which things give -intervals, and where to get them. if you do not then shame on you. but to help those kinds of people understand ill point them to this thread:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=593821

and heres one to tell you what interval is and how to calculate it:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279561

you can also check the PW database to see what gears give -interval

this should tell you all u need to know about how and where and what gear gives -intervals. if you still dont understand how you can get 5atk/sec from that then well go /wrist lol.


anyway now that we established a sin can get 5atk/sec i will go to my reasoning behind why i think sins have the potential to be the best DPSers in the game.

reason 1: Daggers. plain and simple. daggers get all of there damage from dex. crit rate also comes from dex. because of this they dont have to plan about how to balance there stats. they can just add full dex and they will have full power and full critical rates. it is an optimized DPS build for any DPSers. having BOTH crit rate and damage come from one stat with 5atk/sec.

of course tho you will think "well archers get damage and crit rate from dex to so whats your point?". well ima go over that in a min at the end of this post when i start to compare to other classes.

reason 2: skills. and no im not talking about skill spamming, im talking about the buff skills. wolf emblem for one which increases rage damage by 30% at max. so far no other class has a increase rage damage add on as far as i know. sins are the only class to increase there rage damage beyond the normal base of 200%. all classes start with 200% base rage damage and a sin can increase theres by 30%. this will make there criticals higher then the norm obviously and a sin is a crit heavy class.

another skill they have is PD (Power Dash). this magnificent skill adds 40% crit rate. (NOT rage damage, to many ppl tested and CONFIRMED this) i dont think i need to explain the added benefits of a 40% crit rate increase with a class that already has naturally high criticals.

and another is subsea strike. this is a amp skill. its not rly important but it can be used to do extra dmg to add to your DPS. its just a +30% amplified damage for a lil bit on the target and its a aoe.

all of these things on top of the 5atk/sec add to the DPS of a sin. but how do they stack up against the other DPS classes like fist BM and archers?

sin DPS vs fist BM dps: a fist BM is also capable of 5atk/sec but the thing is they have to balance there stats in order to use fist because fist are based on str but u also need a little bit of dex to wield them. so usually fist BMs split there stats to dex and str (and sometimes vit depending on the person) this will give the fist BM decent damage and decent critical hits but compared to a sin which gets both damage and crit rate from dex they will be lacking.

a sin will not be lacking at all, they will have more damage and more criticals including higher rage damage then a fist BM because of this. and daggers having higher phy atk then fists does not help.

sin DPS vs archer(fist/bow) DPS: well for fairness ima start with fist archers since they are capable of 5atk/sec. from what ive seen most fist archers do not go with the fist BM build. usually ive seen them use there own full dex archer build while only adding just enought str to wear fists. this way they have very high crit rate in order to make up for the lack of dmg they will be dealing.

when compared to a sins build again we have to look at the fact that a sin can go full dex and get full damage and full critical rates. so you have to ask yourself the question "how will that stack up against a fist archer who only adds just enought str to wear fists?" keep in mind that fists are powered by str. a fist archer will be severly lacking in the damage department compared to sin who just go full dex.

as for bow archers will i think thats self explanatory...

anyway im NOT saying this will make fist BMs and archers useless. BMs have FAR FAR to much versatility to be called useless... same with archers. a sin has its downsides aswell and not nearly as versatile as a BM.

anyway this is my reasoning to why i believe a sin has the potential to be the Best DPSers out there. the stuff is already in the game and you just merely have to work up to it.

tl:dr

Need us to congratulate you on this wall of awesome dps text?

So what if you are the best dps in game? Need a trophy?

Ok archers and Bms, we can retire and re-roll as sins.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

He just saying assassin potential to be the best dps dealer.
He not saying they can stay alive if they steal agro. b:bye
So no need to re - roll, except you not mind killed so fast for the sake of deal great damage per second. b:laugh
(except if you trying to get epic gear so you able to keep alive, witch i think only available to heavy cser)

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

couple things wrong with your theories, since alot of them seem to be conclusions developed off the idea:

'sin has this, so they must be able to do this. that instantly makes them better'

life doesnt work that way.

#1. be realistic. you need nirvana, AND rank 8 + the 400m in gear a BM needs to get to 5. BM does not need either unrealistic options to already smoke you. very expensive is an understatement, it should be reworded to a fortune worth almost as much as a decent car irl.

#2 dragon bane throws them on par/better than your crit, that kind of throws that out the window

#3 heaven's flame (especially demon) beats the living hell out of your silly little subsea strike. chi pots = 3x spark + dragon = huge huge huge damage potential.
its 100% more damage, not 30, and lasts for 9 seconds .

#4 ecatomb says different than your 'confirmed' powerdash. please post proof, because otherwise, that argument is nul as:
Deals a damage equals to your basic physical attack plus
2737.9 physical damage.
Increases your Rage Damage by 40%. Lasts for 8 seconds.

archers are irrelevant, we're made for the spike lol, otherwise we wouldnt attack so slow :v. ...could probably 1 shot your assassin butt with a stun->take aim combo .

you have -alot- to learn before making ridiculous threads, just face it... BM > assassin.
-takes ~400m to make a master fist BM
-multiple weapon paths to deal a myriad of hurt upon an enemy in many ways
-has range over you IE polearms + ranged attacks
-can stun lock better
-has better defensive skills/genie skills specifically for them to make them good against casters
-can tank better than you could ever dream of

/thread.

Ephemerai - Sanctuary

I doubt he's saying assassins are the BEST, just have the potential to have the highest DPS (though yes, this would probably get us killed more often than not, unless the barb in party is amazing).

This was simply a reply to a request for proof or something made in another thread.

Why do people feel the need to bash on the new classes (specifically, assassins)... b:surrender

Chezedude - Dreamweaver

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

couple things wrong with your theories, since alot of them seem to be conclusions developed off the idea:

'sin has this, so they must be able to do this. that instantly makes them better'

life doesnt work that way.

#1. be realistic. you need nirvana, AND rank 8 + the 400m in gear a BM needs to get to 5. BM does not need either unrealistic options to already smoke you. very expensive is an understatement, it should be reworded to a fortune worth almost as much as a decent car irl.

#2 dragon bane throws them on par/better than your crit, that kind of throws that out the window

#3 heaven's flame (especially demon) beats the living hell out of your silly little subsea strike. chi pots = 3x spark + dragon = huge huge huge damage potential.
its 100% more damage, not 30, and lasts for 9 seconds .

#4 ecatomb says different than your 'confirmed' powerdash. please post proof, because otherwise, that argument is nul as:
Deals a damage equals to your basic physical attack plus
2737.9 physical damage.
Increases your Rage Damage by 40%. Lasts for 8 seconds.

archers are irrelevant, we're made for the spike lol, otherwise we wouldnt attack so slow :v. ...could probably 1 shot your assassin butt with a stun->take aim combo .

you have -alot- to learn before making ridiculous threads, just face it... BM > assassin.
-takes ~400m to make a master fist BM
-multiple weapon paths to deal a myriad of hurt upon an enemy in many ways
-has range over you IE polearms + ranged attacks
-can stun lock better
-has better defensive skills/genie skills specifically for them to make them good against casters
-can tank better than you could ever dream of

/thread.

Using heaven's flame would only lower your over all dps as a solo dd since triple sparking increases damage usually by about 150% for fist bms. Sins indeed have the highest potential dps. Also bloodpaint makes sins very good tanks. When you are dealing damage at 5atk rate you will heal about 400-600 hp per second.

Hendrickson - Sanctuary

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

couple things wrong with your theories, since alot of them seem to be conclusions developed off the idea:

'sin has this, so they must be able to do this. that instantly makes them better'

life doesnt work that way.

#1. be realistic. you need nirvana, AND rank 8 + the 400m in gear a BM needs to get to 5. BM does not need either unrealistic options to already smoke you. very expensive is an understatement, it should be reworded to a fortune worth almost as much as a decent car irl.

#2 dragon bane throws them on par/better than your crit, that kind of throws that out the window

#3 heaven's flame (especially demon) beats the living hell out of your silly little subsea strike. chi pots = 3x spark + dragon = huge huge huge damage potential.
its 100% more damage, not 30, and lasts for 9 seconds .

#4 ecatomb says different than your 'confirmed' powerdash. please post proof, because otherwise, that argument is nul as:
Deals a damage equals to your basic physical attack plus
2737.9 physical damage.
Increases your Rage Damage by 40%. Lasts for 8 seconds.

archers are irrelevant, we're made for the spike lol, otherwise we wouldnt attack so slow :v. ...could probably 1 shot your assassin butt with a stun->take aim combo .

you have -alot- to learn before making ridiculous threads, just face it... BM > assassin.
-takes ~400m to make a master fist BM
-multiple weapon paths to deal a myriad of hurt upon an enemy in many ways
-has range over you IE polearms + ranged attacks
-can stun lock better
-has better defensive skills/genie skills specifically for them to make them good against casters
-can tank better than you could ever dream of

/thread.

couple things wrong here too...
You can't say BM>sin
one thing is every class and even the lvl1 dog in Plumes are > archers (believe me, 90% of the server will agree, except the 8% archers and the 2% that do not want to agree in anyway), since, if I go with your idea archers can't do anything, can't take a barb, bm, cleric (hk), maybe wiz and psy and veno, ah, let's not forget the lvl1 dog in plume city.
Sin can tank... it would be annoying and probably waste of time but, Deaden Nerves have 3min cd, plus hp charm, plus no damage potions, +dmg red skills (genie), plus no damage skills (genie again), plus avoid dmg skill (sin buff), plus evasion, bla bla bla bla and omg, Deaden Nerves cd ok again o-o'. Don't go "****ing idiot, the aggro will be lost bla bla bla bla" unless if you have ever really seen some tanker with the aggro, I'm not speaking about the Flesh Ream instant "fake" aggro, but true aggro, the one that even if you crit for the rest of the fight and the tanker do not hit anything, the aggro will not be taken.
Anyway, I'm tired and have to work soon b:cry Sins the best dps? Probably will, the way that they are now are just like a beta test class b:shocked, are they the best dps atm? Hum, dunno, I don't have a 105 sin and a 105bm to test, the game is all math, but for some reason I prefer the "test" beside the number math b:angry

For me is something like Barb (x_X biggest hp and nuke, 326k isn't?) > Cleric (kinda suck but we all need) > BM Veno (kinda fun to play and many builds, hard to know what will be comming in a pvp) > Sin~Psy~Wizz > Lvl1 animals in every city (chicken, horse, dog, cat bla bla) hum they are here because I KNOW THAT EVERYBODY WOULD MISS THEM IF THEY DISSAPEAR! > Archers, not the best dps, physical and magical nukes are hk for this class, dex growth are not the best (o-o' barbarians get more acc in dex than archers.. ), not the best nuke, ok I give up, I can't say nothing positive about archers T_T T_T T_T sorry b:surrender

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Using heaven's flame would only lower your over all dps as a solo dd since triple sparking increases damage usually by about 150% for fist bms. Sins indeed have the highest potential dps. Also bloodpaint makes sins very good tanks. When you are dealing damage at 5atk rate you will heal about 400-600 hp per second.

i dont think you read correctly, with a tea, you can easily dragon AND demon spark, and build all that chi back up easily. it would make for a huge damage increase, id think.

@hendrickson, your post made absolutely no sense...

MANray_ - Sanctuary

As the person who made the dare i'll give you credit for coming through (even if you've changed your position from "proven fact" to potential). Still, no numbers... I did make it clear that what a high level sin actually hits for is relevant. Also, why didn't you list the interval gear required? You had already done so before.

Aside from the fact that the 3rd spark is not yet available, and while it's reasonable to make asumptions about it, nothing is certain about what it will be like yet. That you are also including the use of skills begs the question of casting times in calculating total dps output...

You see, if you include the interval gear then we know what other bonuses impact damage, which would allow us to make an estimate of average dps we may then compare with existing ones. You continue to base your allegations on assumptions, not facts. As the person making the claim it remains your burden to present the evidence to us so we can disprove or confirm it. Hopefully you (or someone supporting your allegation) will come around and allow us to discuss this seriously.

I would consider it my obligation to present proof on the same standard i require of you, if i was to refute your claim once concrete evidence was made available. Otherwise this all remains useless discourse.

Edit; There continues to be no evidence supporting this claim. You can't call this proof.

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

couple things wrong with your theories, since alot of them seem to be conclusions developed off the idea:

'sin has this, so they must be able to do this. that instantly makes them better'

life doesnt work that way.

#1. be realistic. you need nirvana, AND rank 8 + the 400m in gear a BM needs to get to 5. BM does not need either unrealistic options to already smoke you. very expensive is an understatement, it should be reworded to a fortune worth almost as much as a decent car irl.

#2 dragon bane throws them on par/better than your crit, that kind of throws that out the window

#3 heaven's flame (especially demon) beats the living hell out of your silly little subsea strike. chi pots = 3x spark + dragon = huge huge huge damage potential.
its 100% more damage, not 30, and lasts for 9 seconds .

#4 ecatomb says different than your 'confirmed' powerdash. please post proof, because otherwise, that argument is nul as:
Deals a damage equals to your basic physical attack plus
2737.9 physical damage.
Increases your Rage Damage by 40%. Lasts for 8 seconds.

archers are irrelevant, we're made for the spike lol, otherwise we wouldnt attack so slow :v. ...could probably 1 shot your assassin butt with a stun->take aim combo .

you have -alot- to learn before making ridiculous threads, just face it... BM > assassin.
-takes ~400m to make a master fist BM
-multiple weapon paths to deal a myriad of hurt upon an enemy in many ways
-has range over you IE polearms + ranged attacks
-can stun lock better
-has better defensive skills/genie skills specifically for them to make them good against casters
-can tank better than you could ever dream of

/thread.

you seem to not be very informed tho or missed the entire point of the thread. first off, i already said that it will be expensive i never said it wouldnt be. some people can afford it and some cant. its a known fact that the more money u put in this game the better u will be. and getting these things imo is no diffrent from someone spending money on the cs/ingame to get nyx and hercules along with +12 wands and other refines or something. so honestly "its to expensive to be realistic" is not really a good argument. and getting rank stuff should be easier and less expensive nowadays considering theres perfect tokens being sold for as low as 5k and as high as 13k and only getting lower in price. when it comes to rank gear all you need is patience and not blow all of your money in one go like a jackass. you can easily do it with ingame coin and not spend a dime on the CS.


what are you comparing dragons bane to exactly? i know your not trying to compare it to PD are you? something that reduces atk power for added crit rate to something that increases crit rate without the reduced atk power?


yes it heavens flame most certainly is alot more powerful then subsea strike. never said it wasnt. but the thing is the stuff that is used in combination with subsea is what makes it more powerful then if you were to use subsea on its own. and tbh you dont have to cast subsea at all really as i said, its just for added dmg.

ecatomb is going off the ingame description. in the game it has 2 diffrent discriptions. it says increase crit strike rate when u hover over the icon in the skill menu and it says increase rage dmg in the description after u get the skill. but when you use the skill the increased critical strike buff icon appears.

alot of people have tested it and confirm it does not increase rage damage... if it did obviously we would see our crit damage go up right? it doesnt it remains the same, but crit rate is noticeably higher when the skill is used.


and why are you comparing all path BM to sin? i already got there versatility out of the way in the very last part of the post. i was comparing them as being DPSers, not having versatility in which BMs obviously beat them at.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

what are you comparing dragons bane to exactly? i know your not trying to compare it to PD are you? someont that reduces atk power for added crit rate to someone that increases crit rate without the reduced atk power?

triple spark purifies the attack % lowering debuff, and gives them upto 40-50% crit rate... learn 2 pw

ecatomb is going off the ingame description. in the game it has 2 diffrent discriptions. it says increase crit strike rate when u hover over the icon in the skill menu and it says increase rage dmg in the description after u get the skill. but when you use the skill the increased critical strike buff icon appears.

you keep saying this, but have no conclusive evidence it does such. as far as were concerned and you prove otherwise, it increase your crit damage, not %.

yes it heavens flame most certainly is alot more powerful then subsea strike. never said it wasnt. but the thing is the stuff that is used in combination with subsea is what makes it more powerful.

a 30% amp > 100%. them be some powerful drugs youre on.

and why are you comparing all path BM to sin? i already got there versatility out of the way in the very last part of the post. i was comparing them as being DPSers, not having versatility in which BMs obviously beat them at.

that versatility makes them the better damage dealers .

you seem to not be very informed

yes, you are not very informed. rank 8 costs about 4300 USD last i checked

you are loco.

Olba - Sanctuary

Oh come on.

All you have done is posted a few descriptions and paraded around like the king of the world.

The truth is, you have proven absolutely nothing. You have nothing. You only have those descriptions and your theories. You don't have any solid numbers.

Also, you seem to be completely ignoring a realistic comparison. On your side, you assume Nirvana stuff, but you don't even bother looking at that for the other side. For example, you have completely ignored the option of Nirvana fists.

Really, until TBs get their Demon and Sage skills, along with the 79s and 100s, this discussion is pointless. And even then, you would need to provide numbers, not just some random theory that makes things look pretty.

You would make a good politician, but you sure as hell won't make a good mathematician. Now go back to your cave.

yes, you are not very informed. rank 8 costs about 4300 USD last i checked

Well, 64,000 tokens, which would make ie 4,266.67. And for in-game coin? At the current price of about 15,000 per token, that's a good 960 million coins.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

i have thought of a way to TRY and confirm or disprove his power dash theory.

eye of observation... it showed and proved the demon wizard masteries stack. they have tons of pics on their sub board of it. lets check if it works on assassins.

EDIT: we just tested it, shes posting a pic momentarily.

Asmathi - Sanctuary

Hendrickson - Sanctuary wrote: »

couple things wrong here too...
You can't say BM>sin
one thing is every class and even the lvl1 dog in Plumes are > archers (believe me, 90% of the server will agree, except the 8% archers and the 2% that do not want to agree in anyway), since, if I go with your idea archers can't do anything, can't take a barb, bm, cleric (hk), maybe wiz and psy and veno, ah, let's not forget the lvl1 dog in plume city.
Sin can tank... it would be annoying and probably waste of time but, Deaden Nerves have 3min cd, plus hp charm, plus no damage potions, +dmg red skills (genie), plus no damage skills (genie again), plus avoid dmg skill (sin buff), plus evasion, bla bla bla bla and omg, Deaden Nerves cd ok again o-o'. Don't go "****ing idiot, the aggro will be lost bla bla bla bla" unless if you have ever really seen some tanker with the aggro, I'm not speaking about the Flesh Ream instant "fake" aggro, but true aggro, the one that even if you crit for the rest of the fight and the tanker do not hit anything, the aggro will not be taken.
Anyway, I'm tired and have to work soon b:cry Sins the best dps? Probably will, the way that they are now are just like a beta test class b:shocked, are they the best dps atm? Hum, dunno, I don't have a 105 sin and a 105bm to test, the game is all math, but for some reason I prefer the "test" beside the number math b:angry

For me is something like Barb (x_X biggest hp and nuke, 326k isn't?) > Cleric (kinda suck but we all need) > BM Veno (kinda fun to play and many builds, hard to know what will be comming in a pvp) > Sin~Psy~Wizz > Lvl1 animals in every city (chicken, horse, dog, cat bla bla) hum they are here because I KNOW THAT EVERYBODY WOULD MISS THEM IF THEY DISSAPEAR! > Archers, not the best dps, physical and magical nukes are hk for this class, dex growth are not the best (o-o' barbarians get more acc in dex than archers.. ), not the best nuke, ok I give up, I can't say nothing positive about archers T_T T_T T_T sorry b:surrender

LOL. If you truly think an Archer cannot kill a Barb, you are sorely mistaken. When I was 82 (Using TT80 Gold Armor and Crimson Horn: Soulsmasher) I killed a level 92 barb in PK. (Using a Gold Frost Poleaxe, full TT90 HA with Immac Citrines and 4 socs, and +5 Refines in everything he had).

It really wasnt hard either. The only way I would have lost is if he had been charmed. And NO, I wasn't charmed either. I am quite sure that the only reason Barbs own PK on Sanctuary is due to their Charms or EXTREMELY high refines. And as for BMs, they are really just faster moving, harder hitting barbs lacking the HP and PDef of a barb. When you have killed an archer THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING, then come back and say we suck. Until then, Shut Up.

Olba - Sanctuary

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

i have thought of a way to TRY and confirm or disprove his power dash theory.

eye of observation... it showed and proved the demon wizard masteries stack. they have tons of pics on their sub board of it. lets check if it works on assassins.

I foresee "Are you seriously asking me to spend in-game coin to prove a stupid debate ON A FORUM? What are you, an idiot?" Who's with me on this one?

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

I foresee "Are you seriously asking me to spend in-game coin to prove a stupid debate ON A FORUM? What are you, an idiot?" Who's with me on this one?

no one, because you get eyes for free from BH100.. and i know ALOT of 100 players >_>;?

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

it increases crit strike rate, honestly all you have to do is use the skill... and the crit strike icon pops up after you use the skill, not the rage damage icon.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

it increases crit strike rate, honestly all you have to do is use the skill... and the crit strike icon pops up after you use the skill, not the rage damage icon.

your words mean nothing, when the picture is posted we will know right from wrong man.

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

your words mean nothing, when the picture is posted we will know right from wrong man.

/sigh...

fine here u go

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=600851

just for you