Oracle Noob?

Mistimancer - Heavens Tear

I am not a huge fan of people that goes through all their levels using only oracles... but it's their choice.
But when I see a level 70+ venom on Nightscream Island, asking me : Why do you send your pet and call it back? I KNOW it is a REAL NOOB ( either Oracle or not) OR it's somebody that plays on somebody else account ROFL...
Or when I see another Venom level 80+ beeing so proud 'cause she crit for 9k on a mob lower than her level??????? REAL NOOB.....
Or a level 89 barb not beeing able to hold aggro when on mobs lower than him (was FB 59) I was helping.... hmmmm something is wrong...

I don't consider myself a great player.. I consider myself somebody experience who enjoy game and likes to live on the edge by trying many things and experiencing many things...

I have no herc or nix.. I have Cub and Armored as my main pets.. Mothran for fly... sure I cannot solo everything.. but I sure can have alot of fun AOE 4 level 95 Navoks Brave with them.. do I die? yes.. but I experience all my skills and have fun and proud of what I do

I am a stay at home mother with an autistic/Adhd child who requires alot of my attention so I am quite casual player...

I started to play over a year ago..I took a 3 months break... and I am only level 85... WHAT? ONLY 85 after over a year.... NOOOOBBBB ( Yeah.. I got that often hahaha) I only used oracles,wanted,crusaders and fruits only if they dropped or were quest rewards.I don't even carry guardians hahaha

But I know my class.. and I have fun... I am lucky that my faction likes me for who I am and bring me to big things and let me pull for them... even if I should not be there hahaha

*HUGS*

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear

I've been watching this thread grow and mutate every couple days since it was created, and being someone that has been labeled "oracle noob" for obvious prejudicial reasons (I lived at them and hit 85 in like 4 or 5 days), I just love how so very many statements in this thread have been based on pointless preconceptions.

1. They spent alot of money and they'll fail because they won't get the chance to learn the game!

I've played the game since mid september 2008 (16 months now for those bad at math); I kinda think in that time, I've gained a pretty thurough understanding of the game. Money does not enable you to succeed in this game, nor does it cause you to fail, from my experience you either succeed more with the use of real life money than you would otherwise, or you simply stay as you were before your spending and remain an incompetent lump of coal.

2. They leveled too fast to understand their character!

b:chuckle We may not have the understanding of crossing through the lower levels with the class, but since when does the time you're limited to 5 skills or 10 skills out of all those your character can learn cause you to be able or unable to learn how to play with a complete skill set at hand?

3. OMG! They took aggro from the Tank! They don't understand damage control!

b:laugh Ok, now that's just foolish, it's called testing your tank's capabilities, and I must say with competant level 75+ tanks I generally don't pull aggro when there's only one mob for them to focus on. Last I checked most people are trying to get the most out of the game in the shortest time possible, and as far as I can see, I've never caused a death outside my own. If you were around when the server in general started hitting 80, and were in that range, I don't know a single wizard or archer that held back on their damage enough to have never pulled aggro off a Tank.

4. They're full of themselves because they leveled so fast they think they're better than everybody else!

b:puzzled Only an idiot thinks they're better than anybody else up front. People may have a greater understanding of the game as a whole than others, or they may not. They may be able to successfully break down how a class works for others, or they may not. The only thing oracling does for people is gives them a higher level starting point and the ability to learn all skills at once rather than one by one.

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1. They spent alot of money and they'll fail because they won't get the chance to learn the game!

I've played the game since mid september 2008 (16 months now for those bad at math); I kinda think in that time, I've gained a pretty thurough understanding of the game. Money does not enable you to succeed in this game, nor does it cause you to fail, from my experience you either succeed more with the use of real life money than you would otherwise, or you simply stay as you were before your spending and remain an incompetent lump of coal.

For a seasoned player, I have to agree on your point. Myself, I have 6 characters; 89 BM, 72 veno, 63 cleric, 26 wizzie (LA), 25 psy, wizzie (full arcane) and barb. The lower levels I can blow through when I want... I'm just playing with a friend, and she's been busy the past days. Else we'd easily be in our 40's.

It's easy. Like really easy.

I don't have the money to oracle, and at some point I still like low-level questing. Call it a change of scenery from BH, WQ, CS, and 10x 80-mob quests.

2. They leveled too fast to understand their character!

Mostly applies to the NEW players who see a fast way to level, buy their levels, then have no clue on how the basic stuff works... they reach high levels and they've never played their class much. They may not even pay attention to how their skills work.

4. They're full of themselves because they leveled so fast they think they're better than everybody else!

b:puzzled Only an idiot thinks they're better than anybody else up front.

The problem is that there's a lot of idiots, and they love to brag about being the best. Then they just suck horribly, and will never shut up how you are wrong and they hold the answers to all of the universe, will make you look bad in front everyone else... and other people are gonna believe them afterwards.

In the end: know how to play your class, and I won't mind whatever way you took to get there.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

3. OMG! They took aggro from the Tank! They don't understand damage control!

b:laugh Ok, now that's just foolish, it's called testing your tank's capabilities, and I must say with competant level 75+ tanks I generally don't pull aggro when there's only one mob for them to focus on. Last I checked most people are trying to get the most out of the game in the shortest time possible, and as far as I can see, I've never caused a death outside my own. If you were around when the server in general started hitting 80, and were in that range, I don't know a single wizard or archer that held back on their damage enough to have never pulled aggro off a Tank.

Welcome to 1.5years later, when a good handfull are past that age and must learn to keep dmg control. That or they loose out on BH kills b:chuckle

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

I had a bh69 pyro today where a lv70 psychic joined and was immediately booted by the lv71 barb lead who commented "sorry, but I hate oracles ". Kinda disgusted me that the guy was judged before even being given a chance, purely because of his leveling methods. I left squad myself after that, oracles I don't really mind if the player is competent and a decent person, but stuck up, judgmental, jealous players I refuse to squad with.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I had a bh69 pyro today where a lv70 psychic joined and was immediately booted by the lv71 barb lead who commented "sorry, but I hate oracles ". Kinda disgusted me that the guy was judged before even being given a chance, purely because of his leveling methods. I left squad myself after that, oracles I don't really mind if the player is competent and a decent person, but stuck up, judgmental, jealous players I refuse to squad with.

i think you just met the extreme end lol. The non oracle **** tards.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I had a bh69 pyro today where a lv70 psychic joined and was immediately booted by the lv71 barb lead who commented "sorry, but I hate oracles ". Kinda disgusted me that the guy was judged before even being given a chance, purely because of his leveling methods. I left squad myself after that, oracles I don't really mind if the player is competent and a decent person, but stuck up, judgmental, jealous players I refuse to squad with.

That is harsh but i wont squad with an oracle'd TideBorn either and have left FF squads purely because of that. Some may find it offensive and yes some of the oracled tideborn may be good players but im not taking the risk when i enter instances and some that are challenging as it is.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That is harsh but i wont squad with an oracle'd TideBorn either and have left FF squads purely because of that. Some may find it offensive and yes some of the oracled tideborn may be good players but im not taking the risk when i enter instances and some that are challenging as it is.

oracles arent MUCH far from RBers who jumped to lv 86 just doing the same instance over and over in the same unchanging area... and then you wonder why some 8x, 9xs ask the dumbest of questions.

It boils down to how attentive and how much common sense you have to at LEAST clear an instance SMOOTHLY.

Let me ask, Do pple who leave squads when oracled tideborns join in, also leave squads when your friends go on their RL family members other character? Cause technically thats AS nub and even more so inexperienced than oraclers. (ex: "yeah lemme go tank on my (RL) wifes chara, dont worry i know how to play it ive been on it about 20 times!")

or is it just an action that pple cherry pick out of strangers and tideborns?

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've been watching this thread grow and mutate every couple days since it was created, and being someone that has been labeled "oracle noob" for obvious prejudicial reasons (I lived at them and hit 85 in like 4 or 5 days), I just love how so very many statements in this thread have been based on pointless preconceptions.

1. They spent alot of money and they'll fail because they won't get the chance to learn the game!

I've played the game since mid september 2008 (16 months now for those bad at math); I kinda think in that time, I've gained a pretty thurough understanding of the game. Money does not enable you to succeed in this game, nor does it cause you to fail, from my experience you either succeed more with the use of real life money than you would otherwise, or you simply stay as you were before your spending and remain an incompetent lump of coal.

2. They leveled too fast to understand their character!

b:chuckle We may not have the understanding of crossing through the lower levels with the class, but since when does the time you're limited to 5 skills or 10 skills out of all those your character can learn cause you to be able or unable to learn how to play with a complete skill set at hand?

3. OMG! They took aggro from the Tank! They don't understand damage control!

b:laugh Ok, now that's just foolish, it's called testing your tank's capabilities, and I must say with competant level 75+ tanks I generally don't pull aggro when there's only one mob for them to focus on. Last I checked most people are trying to get the most out of the game in the shortest time possible, and as far as I can see, I've never caused a death outside my own. If you were around when the server in general started hitting 80, and were in that range, I don't know a single wizard or archer that held back on their damage enough to have never pulled aggro off a Tank.

4. They're full of themselves because they leveled so fast they think they're better than everybody else!

b:puzzled Only an idiot thinks they're better than anybody else up front. People may have a greater understanding of the game as a whole than others, or they may not. They may be able to successfully break down how a class works for others, or they may not. The only thing oracling does for people is gives them a higher level starting point and the ability to learn all skills at once rather than one by one.

I agree with you that no one should be dismissed out of hand, but for someone who's been around for as long as you have i think you're missing some insight as to how many of the comunity's members think.

1. Yes, when you come down to it, there has always been something of a grudge amidst people playing for free, casual CS users and the big spenders. The "oracle noob" stereotype just represents the bottom of the barrel when it comes to big CS users. And they really are the bottom of the barrel, you admit to this view yourself by going through the trouble of explaining that you're a veteran player. There's an equivalent type of free player that has basically soloed to high levels and fails to understand basic group dynamics when he finally decides it's time to squad with others. You can be a noob regardless of how much you spend in the CS.

2.While you do make a good point, i disagree with you. I've been squading with TB for some time now and have yet to figure out their proper role in squads. They usually don't do anything except ocassionally hit big on a mob or die to stolen aggro. I have yet to see any advantage in squading them although i will continue to give them the oportunity. Much about the new classes has yet to be figured out and until such work is done, they're likely to remain useless. Don't take me wrong, no doubt a couple of experienced players have begun doing some cool stuff with their TB chars, but even though i've been playing the game for as long as you, and i'm pretty familiar with each class, i wouldn't know what to do if playing any other class but veno. Don't even know what the icons for BB or roar look like. Playing the lower levels is about learning the basics. I don't care if you have a lvl100 wiz on your account, you'll never be as good a veno as me if you oracle to my level (and yes this is not my only char, i've played veno on different servers).

3. At a certain level range, and with what is now known about the game, there's no excuse for this other than untimely crits. And good archers even consider those. Yes, i'm all for giving TB a break on this as they're a new class, but those that oracled their way up are less likely to exercise good judgement and their mistakes will be more costly to others.

4.Someone who brags about their being better to others is a fail gamer, regardless of how they leveled. On this i do agree with you.

For the record i'm not against oracling per se, but there really is such a thing as oracle noobs and for my part i will avoid squadding with anyone who has PROVEN to be such.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

oracles arent MUCH far from RBers who jumped to lv 86 just doing the same instance over and over in the same unchanging area... and then you wonder why some 8x, 9xs ask the dumbest of questions.

It boils down to how attentive and how much common sense you have to at LEAST clear an instance SMOOTHLY.

Let me ask, Do pple who leave squads when oracled tideborns join in, also leave squads when your friends go on their RL family members other character? Cause technically thats AS nub and even more so inexperienced than oraclers. (ex: "yeah lemme go tank on my (RL) wifes chara, dont worry i know how to play it ive been on it about 20 times!")

or is it just an action that pple cherry pick out of strangers and tideborns?

I've not done many RB and those ive tried to fail because someone doesnt listen and then we get a 1k tele and its game over, furthest i got was to first boss lol so ive no idea about that instace.

I know my class well enough to do what i do well, yes i make mistakes but so does everyone but anyway if i dont think a squad is good enough i will leave im not going to waste my xp or mp pots on a wasted cause. Im not selfish either in instances i will often do the BB or RB depending what we are doing and ill often go to town if its a wipe even if i dont have guardian scrolls. However, like i said i wont join a squad if i think it isn't good enough or if i think it will be a waste of time.

I don't know i dont ask that question but i personally wouldnt trust someone who jumps on someones elses account if they haven't a char in that class with a similar above level experience. The exception being if they jump across simply to ress but apart from that i don't play with there RL family members account characters.

Cholla - Harshlands

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

2. They leveled too fast to understand their character!

b:chuckle We may not have the understanding of crossing through the lower levels with the class, but since when does the time you're limited to 5 skills or 10 skills out of all those your character can learn cause you to be able or unable to learn how to play with a complete skill set at hand?

I agree with most of your points.

And, I have never ever called anyone a noob -- even new players -- and I have no plans to ever do so.

But... unless you one shot everything, you do not use just one skill, you use a combination of skills. And other things matter (like movement, and consumables). And, sometimes, when you are having problems and making mistakes, you might stumble across some combination of things -- starting position, this skill with that consumable, timing and distances on this combination of nine skills, or whatever else, which offers some benefit which becomes obvious only in hindsight.

Technotic - Sanctuary

-Level too fast to understand avatar
-No Rep from oracles
-Cost a bit to buy them
-Quick leveling
-People will always complain about them
-Beware of the Oracle ****-Hole(Stands there with Dragon Breath or another AoE and spamz; I do this b:surrender)
-You do get some money back from oracles so that is a plus when you're doing alot of them
-Whoever does the most damage gets the kill, being in the same squad as the person that did the most damage will NOT get you the quest
Note: People can heal you and assist you, but YOU have to do the most damage.
-Beware of other monsters around the oracle monster
-Have fun b:victory

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

But... unless you one shot everything, you do not use just one skill, you use a combination of skills. And other things matter (like movement, and consumables).

Actually, for archers, grinding is a lot easier than, say, killing Oracle bosses.

Archers with highly refined gear just use normal attacks on mobs and kill without having to use a single skill. If their gear is somewhat refined (+3 or +4), then they can just use one skill (Frost Arrow) and then use normal attacks to kill the mob. Those without refines use 2 skills (Frost Arrow, Knockback) to kill a mob, and is often made into a macro so it involves 1 button press.

For Oracle mini-bosses, archers use combinations of knockbacks, freezes, and stuns to keep the boss away as much as possible. Or at least that's one possible strategy. There are other ways to handle it. But in effect, you have to actually use class Skills as an Archer to kill an Oracle mini-boss at your level.

That being said, I now have a question. Is grinding an unacceptable way to level for Archers, since it requires a lot less skill than even Oracling to do so?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know my class well enough to do what i do well, yes i make mistakes but so does everyone

Ive heard everyone from oraclers to 'tards say that

Quilue - Sanctuary

grinding takes more skill than you think if you want to be cheap, especially if the mobs are dangerously social (lol spiders). try going to spiders uncharmed and determined not to use event food lol

you learn to pull mobs from a group with knockback or with mob reset, you learn when to move and when to fight (like time your kite so the mob misses its channel as you run far back enough b:chuckle), you learn how to manage your mana and chi, and most importantly, you learn when to demon spark to purify yourself. it all might be skills that is useless for situations other than grinding but it's something you pick up nevertheless

on the other hand, i see ******* at pirates spamming deadly shot mid-battle and lightning despite the fact that pirates are magic and ranged and of metal element. it amuses me. i've never seen a lowbie archer at pirates do anything good with their skills, not even winged shell

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ive heard heard everyone from oraclers to 'tards say that

Maybe so but i am niether, im not a tard and i dont use oracles b:pleased.

Lebowski - Lost City

What if all you do is the regular quest and crazystone. Are you then a crazystone noob.

Let's face it. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to play this game. MMORPG's are all just about time and money and gear you can aquire. Real money jsut allows you to short cut those things.

Another thing. Who would you rather have on your side, a person with a 200 I.Q. that leveled a character to level 50 or a dimwit that oracled up to lvl 90 character with the best gears?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Lebowski - Lost City wrote: »

What if all you do is the regular quest and crazystone. Are you then a crazystone noob.

Let's face it. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to play this game. MMORPG's are all just about time and money and gear you can aquire. Real money jsut allows you to short cut those things.

Another thing. Who would you rather have on your side, a person with a 200 I.Q. that leveled a character to level 50 or a dimwit that oracled up to lvl 90 character with the best gears?

the lv 50 character............ cause the most they can do, and the smartest, is NOT get in MY way lol............. God knows what kinda chaos that lv90 with the best gears will stay alive enough to bring all the way to u...

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Lebowski - Lost City wrote: »

What if all you do is the regular quest and crazystone. Are you then a crazystone noob.

Let's face it. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to play this game. MMORPG's are all just about time and money and gear you can aquire. Real money jsut allows you to short cut those things.

Another thing. Who would you rather have on your side, a person with a 200 I.Q. that leveled a character to level 50 or a dimwit that oracled up to lvl 90 character with the best gears?

Level 50 please, idiots who oracle have no place in my squad.

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

Lebowski - Lost City wrote: »

What if all you do is the regular quest and crazystone. Are you then a crazystone noob.

Let's face it. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to play this game. MMORPG's are all just about time and money and gear you can aquire. Real money jsut allows you to short cut those things.

I agree, but there's people out there (and I have the knack to get in parties with them) who make it look really hard to even understand the simple video game things. I will spare you the details of my last encounter with one... actually, I won't.

Some time back, I ended up getting a nice girl in the faction. She explained she had never played a single video game before PWI... and that didn't bug me that much, for I know people who aren't hardcore gamers yet are decent players.

The first hour she was in the faction, I spent it in PM with her trying to explain the basic stuff. I was in a FC run so when I realize I was slowing the group down, I asked her if she had access to Ventrilo - and explained her what it was when she told me she didn't know. Vent = awesome when you need to talk with people and can't squad with them (that and on text, I often come across as blunt/cold, while I wouldn't sound like it IRL). She barely knew computers generally came with speakers. Forget Ventrilo, I asked one of my members to help her out a bit.

Said member spent well over an hour with her, after the other hour or so I spent with her as well. Let's say that she couldn't even grasp basic movements (such as click to move and use skills to attack), and AFAIK, still hadn't learned them 2 weeks later.

She logs back on at some point, and one my marshals agrees to help her. My very, very patient marshal spent 2 hours, to no avail, explaining where a quest item was (Croathial Flowers, low-level elven quest). The member wanted the marshal to get over there and show her exactly where (because a highly detailed version of "by the big wooden boat on the west bank of the lake south of Plume" wasn't enough apparently)... but my marshal was in a 202020 in FB79. Same deal regarding another elven quest (those annoying essences in the air around same boat).

I understand some people struggling. But that girl was beyond what I'm used to see... and those in Feral know how much I can't stand explaining anything to my mother about computers, it's frustrating to no end.

Another thing. Who would you rather have on your side, a person with a 200 I.Q. that leveled a character to level 50 or a dimwit that oracled up to lvl 90 character with the best gears?

The 200 IQ dude. At least my points will get across o.o.

Unless the 200 IQ dude has a horrible, horrible personality. Then I'll willingly take the 90 and teach him the basic stuff.

Quilue - Sanctuary

i wonder how soon packs will come back? b:question

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i wonder how soon packs will come back? b:question

Around Valentines Day or the end of January intime for the whole or February.

Kaneharo - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i wonder how soon packs will come back? b:question

I rofl'd as soon as I saw that.

EIlvira - Heavens Tear

Well I myself have leveled two characters to their higher levels. Actually... when i first started playing PWI back last October 2008 I had a veno, and through all my noobish experiences learned the basics of the game. Got her to her mid fifties back when that was considered decently high, quit and made a cleric. Levelled her up the long and difficult way through quests and hard work. Loved the class, but quite honestly, i didn't learn how much potential it REALLY had until I hit my 60s when I started getting into things like Zhenning or solo grinding with BMs (yea, remember that? with pirates at sanctuary? XD). I learned even more when I started helping the guild in TTs, and I think that's really where I learned the most. Was doing instances, squading with people, etc etc. Getting into situations where quick action must be taken, and that's where I flourished as a cleric. And really I feel it's not necessarily how you get to your level, it's what you learn on the way. I also made a veno to level 82 where she's sorta stayed. She was originally a very fun HA build but I restatted so I could better do TTs lol... :shrug: Going back to HA at 90 for sure though >_>;

Anyway, I made this TB Assassin cuz I tried it out and ended up loving it lol. I wanted to get to the 60s so I could learn more skills and really dig into the potential of the class, and I think I'm doing rather well. I did some oracles yeah, about 30 every day. but along the way I also did all my quests (especially from 1-40 I did nothing but the quests). Sure I still feel like I have a lot to learn... but I think I'll learn it rather well the more I do in squads and the more I see that this class can do. Even just doing the swamps quests has taught me A LOT about how sins really work. And I don't plan to oracle at all anymore because I'm actually having a lot of fun just grinding. Huh, imagine that! XD That and I can think of a lot of better ways to use the money I'd be spending lol (GEAR!).

Overall I just think like so many have said before, it's how you play the class. Learn the skills, learn what they do. I can tell you now I've learned a hell of a lot in over a week, and have seen where I shouldn't have levelled certain skills yet, and others I need to make priority. It's all stuff you just tend to learn regardless. :shrug: But yeah... those who have never tried playing the class in really difficult situations wont have the experience yet. They'll get it eventually. i mean you gotta actually play the game some time right? lol.

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i wonder how soon packs will come back? b:question

Lol i said OMG spoons...sorry

HealthPotion - Raging Tide

I oracle sometimes. Im in the 6x's and the Quest EXP sucks!! Usually gets me to 20-40% and then I have to grind the other 60-80%.. So I just oracle it.
Ive oracled three times.
Im not a dumb noob who has no goal and wants to "cheat"

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

HealthPotion - Raging Tide wrote: »

I oracle sometimes. Im in the 6x's and the Quest EXP sucks!! Usually gets me to 20-40% and then I have to grind the other 60-80%.. So I just oracle it.
Ive oracled three times.
Im not a dumb noob who has no goal and wants to "cheat"

No-one said you were and please learn what oracle noob means along with alot of other forum readers/posters.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i wonder how soon packs will come back? b:question

This was epic. I actually laughed out loud. Whoever did that, just lol wow.

But just for the next 20 minutes, cause we can't do this all day... get double the anni packs!!/sarcasm

Sthenith - Dreamweaver

Referring to the title of this post i find it all kinda funny.

1. An oracle noob is by definition a beginner who uses oracles to lvl up.

2. By using solely oracles, it is obvious that those kind of players do not have the neccesary skill awareness to be able to compete on a high lvl, pvp or not.

3. Someone however who uses oracles "wisely" , meaning only to gain an advantage while still learning their skills and how to use them is not a noob per se.

4. Someone who already plays a class at high lvl (and didn't use oracles or only very very limited), and starts a new class and lvl's that class with oracles is also not a noob per definition.

A noob : newbie = a beginner in something, in this case a game.

Nearly every "experienced" player knows the basics of other classes and what their function is both in squads and soloing. It is then not hard to figure out, esp with the help of all the info on these forums, how those chars should be played.

So someone who starts a new char and oracles it up to a high lvl can't really be considered a "noob" unless they are completely "new" to the game basics.

My cleric is high lvl. But even so i didn't even do 1 FC or RB run. In those area's i could be considered a "noob". But it is my choice not to do those parts of the game, but on other area's i have enuf "expertise" to handle myself very well.

Same goes for this sin. I will probably not do certain parts of the game, and i will do other parts a LOT. Does that make me a noob ? No. Does using the oracles they give in stash, and even adding a few myself to skip a few lvls make me a noob ? No.

Just as long someone is willing to learn the basics, willing to learn their skillset, and willing to put some effort in playing their toon, i don't call em noobs.

But a fool who lvls his first char ever using only oracles, only to come here to ask foolish questions that they could have known the answer to if they "played" the char, is imo a true noob.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Doesnt matter if you had been playing PW for 15 years, the new classes where unknown to anyone so you weren't experienced in them thus using oracles to level them makes you an oracle ****.