Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you do lunar with your Bear, then its because youve given it herc buffs such as strong etc. No way you can do lunar with a plain armored bear.

In which case you effectively have a herc anyway.

/facepalm


No matter how many of the rare pet skills you give an armored bear you will never have a herc because a herc with those same skills is still better. This has been discussed on the veno forums already, and this seems to be the conclusion: no matter how many rare pet skill you give a top of the line free tameable land tanking pet you will still have an inferior tanking pet when compared to a herc with the same exact skills. Herc can do it faster, easier, and better than any other free land pet under the same circumstances with the same rare pet skills.

I personally don't like hercs because they are ascetically ugly, and simply make way to easy.

tweakz

Those buffs would definitely be wasted on the Bear. The Bear is more suitable for luring with Tough and Threaten. Using tough would be like temporarily doubling it's HP making it about as resilient as the Herc for the small amount of time needed to lure. Threaten is nice to make phys mobs safer to lure. It's speed is also better than the Herc's for luring. So while the bear can't replace the Herc for tanking bosses, it can replace it for luring.

Herc Buffs are probably wisest used on a Plumpfish. Protect and maybe Strong for an Eldergoth ranged pet.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Yes i find doing things slow with a full party fun....wait its not slow...damn it can be even faster then with a herc, now who would guess that eh?

BB can be done without charms, now who would guess that. Unless you want to Zhen and hold BB for hours, a good cleric does not need MP charms thats just waste of money as is a Herc, waste of money. thnx bb b:bye

tweakz

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes i find doing things slow with a full party fun....wait its not slow...damn it can be even faster then with a herc, now who would guess that eh?

BB can be done without charms, now who would guess that. Unless you want to Zhen and hold BB for hours, a good cleric does not need MP charms thats just waste of money as is a Herc, waste of money. thnx bb b:bye

I typically get about 20m+ a week (more than what I spent on Herc). What better could I have spent my coin on? b:shocked

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

I R NOT USELESS!

to the OP its not just Hercs either... people descriminate if you don't have a Nix too in PVP. "Venos can't PVP without a Nix." XD Well they've never met my Kowlin b:dirty Either way it happens.

I have found that I love my Herc for grinding and soloing. I don't need parties for TT anymore I just go myself. My biggest thing is being told how to play like I don't know.

Really there is something similar for every class. Its just another reason to not have you in their party. Consider it this way. they didn't invite you? Their loss. The ones that do invite you wil lbe glad that they did (that is if you are as good a player as you think you are)

Its all in knowing your class and your abilities. I'm a support build Venomancer. I have a lower attack but more defences, but I bet dollars to doughnuts I can survive twice as long as some other veno with a "standard" build at my level. and I prove it every week I TW. b:pleased

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Those buffs would definitely be wasted on the Bear. The Bear is more suitable for luring with Tough and Threaten. Using tough would be like temporarily doubling it's HP making it about as resilient as the Herc for the small amount of time needed to lure. Threaten is nice to make phys mobs safer to lure. It's speed is also better than the Herc's for luring. So while the bear can't replace the Herc for tanking bosses, it can replace it for luring.

Herc Buffs are probably wisest used on a Plumpfish. Protect and maybe Strong for an Eldergoth ranged pet.

I don't use herc for luring. Using a tank pet as a lure pet is fail, IMHO. Kowlin, FTW the speed and agility to pull any mob with the right veno. I can even pull Wurlord in TT2-3 with my kowlin without him dying. Lest Mana usaeage to revive and quicker call back.

_River - Heavens Tear

Wow so much for people wanting this thread closed x.x

All I have to say is, no one specified which mode I did anything, no one asked, so next time if you wanna know what mode I solo things, just ask ^^ I'm happy to give that information.

Like Signako said, lunar is still lunar, as is FF. My bear tanks mobs in squad mode, I never proclaimed to tank bosses in lunar or FF squad mode. I never said which mode I did. So please, before attacking me next time ask me ok?

Anywho, herc users and non-herc users are just as good as each other. We all love each of our pets the same, so why are we having a contest to see who's pets are better?

The question is boils down to, for those NON-venos, why choose a herc veno over a regular veno.

Yes that has been answered.

Thanks, Signako for defending me

Let's all just chill and try to enjoy the game, shall we? I for one am tired of throwing insults when I could be doing something better with my time. But if people wanna continue to tear me apart, be my guest ^^ Just don't expect me to say anything witty. lmao

_River - Heavens Tear

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

epic fail
(damn my message was too short, so Im typing this to make it longer)

Oo why is that epic fail? cause I don't mind my pets the way they are, but choose to better my gear to keep my survivablilty? wow... x.x Do people not read everything? I've said that's my choice, if you don't want to go that path, cool. That's your play style.

Edit: Btw, all of my pets aggro skills are maxed. Not that it will make much difference to you people, but I find it helps me loads ^^

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

River I you. XD PM me in game sometime.

_River - Heavens Tear

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

River I you. XD PM me in game sometime.

Aww I you too Gwen. And I sure will Grats again on the marriage with DJ ^^

tweakz

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't use herc for luring. Using a tank pet as a lure pet is fail, IMHO. Kowlin, FTW the speed and agility to pull any mob with the right veno. I can even pull Wurlord in TT2-3 with my kowlin without him dying. Lest Mana usaeage to revive and quicker call back.

I wouldn't use the bear as a tank pet, and I don't consider the Kowlin a luring pet. Agility? - Nonsense? Speed? - Ranged pets spend much less time in Aggro radius. If mob kites, Kowlin would be fastest to reset which could cause confusion. With ranged pet: mob rarely if ever kites. Kowlin may have to go up specific path to reach mob on ledge, ranged pet can go up to ledge and shoot.

In tight quarters with fast mobs, hardy pets with debuffs are nice. Charging up chi or saving it for bramble hood every time is a pain, luring with a debuff pet isn't.

Using a party debuff / grinding pet (Kowlin)as a lure pet is fail.

I don't consider Wurlord a challenge. ;-)

Anders - Lost City

there is none
I rate mine a -7

_River - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

I wouldn't use the bear as a tank pet,QUOTE]

Understandable, but you have a herc, correct? So its safe to say you use that to tank. But for me, since I don't want to get a herc, the bear, kowlin, and any of my other pets are good for pulling and tanking. Genies are awesome too, yes. But I don't have a pet with a ranged attack. I don't mind it either. If my kowlin dies while pulling wurlord, it doesn't bother me. cause I carry the necessary mp items I need.

But I respect other's opinions and preferences.

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oo why is that epic fail? cause I don't mind my pets the way they are, but choose to better my gear to keep my survivablilty? wow... x.x Do people not read everything? I've said that's my choice, if you don't want to go that path, cool. That's your play style.

Edit: Btw, all of my pets aggro skills are maxed. Not that it will make much difference to you people, but I find it helps me loads ^^

tweakz wrote: »

I wouldn't use the bear as a tank pet, and I don't consider the Kowlin a luring pet. Agility? - Nonsense? Speed? - Ranged pets spend much less time in Aggro radius. If mob kites, Kowlin would be fastest to reset which could cause confusion. With ranged pet: mob rarely if ever kites. Kowlin may have to go up specific path to reach mob on ledge, ranged pet can go up to ledge and shoot.

In tight quarters with fast mobs, hardy pets with debuffs are nice. Charging up chi or saving it for bramble hood every time is a pain, luring with a debuff pet isn't.

I don't consider Wurlord a challenge. ;-)

All I said was Tank pet as lure pet is fail. I don't wanna get into some pissing match about what type of luring pet is best to use in what situation. b:bye I play how I play, and I don't trash others for not playing that way. If you wanna use a Herc to lure something, or a Celestial Sting or whatever you got, go for it. And further more, I don't use a pet to lure much at all nowt hat Genies have come out, so I can keep my tank pet out at all times, and lure without worry or wasting time.


@River: Aww thanks. I be'z a happy Veno now. XD BTW I totally agree with your posts on here. Even though I have a Herc, lol. I was well into my mid-high 60s before Hercs even came out and we did just fine without them. Hercs just made it THAT much easier. Also seems to have made Venos a little lazier especially ones that have done a lot of major leveling with em. They may not be bad players or anything but hercs don't make em better then anyone else.

_River - Heavens Tear

@Gwen:

^^ The epic fail wasn't aimed at you btw, it was at Foxx I think her name was (I'm too lazy to look lmfao). She said it was epic fail that I picked good gear over a herc.

But I have a nix, yes I got a nix and no I don't want a herc. I won't use my nix for pvp when I get to the level I want. I will use my kowlin (as I've admired how Gwen always was able to kill pretty much anyone with it when we were in EQ). This was before hercs and phoenixes. When they both came out.. of course the nix force of Triad stomped us >.< But that's another story left for another time

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

lolz! Yeah. But my Kowlin be special. That was back when it took a lot of skill to PVP as a venomancer. -.-;; now, those that have hte skills to PVP as Venomancers with or without Nixes are the ones I love. I know a lot of Venos that rock the PVP scene and don't always rely on their nixes to do it.

My gear is way better then my pets. I have most of my 90 heavy set sitting in my bank, I have already started refining it. I would rather have good gear then some "epic" pet anyway.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

Foxx, you know me, and you know my pets. you know the efforts i go to in making sure i am doing my best to buy the best equips, and to make sure that my skills and my pets are as high as they can go...

you would call me and others an epic fail for this?

it seems to me that others, who do the same, are putting their money where it belongs first. it used to be that cash shop pets were considered luxuries, to be gotten *after* you had finished proper skill leveling and such, not as an instead of. i know a number of venos (not you, but others) who kept their own and other pets skills at minimun levels, and bought hercs instead. i was shocked when i first heard this, and still dont understand why someone would do that. somehow, i find it kind of sad.

and btw, i agree with the poster who commented that one reason they wouldnt want a herc was because they didnt like its looks. that has always been the number one putoff for me with this pet...i just cant get over how ugly it is. but, for that matter, i dont like using golems either....too damn big to see around in tight quarters for me. what i wish is that i could still be using my old, reliable mechacrab at the level i am. poor babe hasnt the stamina though. so i use my kowlin as much as i can-her beauty in motion and at rest is at treat to the eye-and my golems when i have to have muscle, though i have never enjoyed using them.

My Phoenix in action

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

epic fail
(damn my message was too short, so Im typing this to make it longer)

_River - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning--

I believe the things in my signature says it all ^^

Proud owner of a Kowlin (KOWLINS FOREVER)

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

Go Go Kowlins! Whoever said you couldn't use them to grind never met us. XD We need to start some kind of Kowlin Fanclub. XD

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

i've often thought that if there was a cash shop pet that was really beautiful, like our kowlins, and strong as the herc, i might consider trying for it harder (especially now, that most of my skills are leveled up, so i am going to have a bit more money to put aside). but till then, its my beautiful babe and i together.

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

FoxRunning--

I believe the things in my signature says it all ^^

Proud owner of a Kowlin (KOWLINS FOREVER)

tweakz

I much prefer the look of the level 1 armor as it shows much more skin, and is so much sexier. It's also much cheaper. Being cheap and good looking is far more important for tt runs than wearing some bulky over priced armor. I've also got me mad skillz over these people who got better armor so it really doesn't matter.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

I much prefer the look of the level 1 armor as it shows much more skin, and is so much sexier. It's also much cheaper. Being cheap and good looking is far more important for tt runs than wearing some bulky over priced armor. I've also got me mad skillz over these people who got better armor so it really doesn't matter.

tweakz won this thread and pwi in one stroke b:laugh

Bebisito - Dreamweaver

I don't care what kind of pet a veno uses, as long as they know how to play their class and are a nice person. Then again, I don't know the hardcore ways to play this game as I just do what I feel is right, lol. Hell, I've partied with venos who don't even USE pets. o_O

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Bebisito - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't care what kind of pet a veno uses, as long as they know how to play their class and are a nice person. Then again, I don't know the hardcore ways to play this game as I just do what I feel is right, lol. Hell, I've partied with venos who don't even USE pets. o_O

^

---

Thisb:thanks

Belial - Heavens Tear

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

oxx, you know me, and you know my pets. you know the efforts i go to in making sure i am doing my best to buy the best equips, and to make sure that my skills and my pets are as high as they can go...

you would call me and others an epic fail for this?

I think Foxx's intention was to highlight that a considerable part of a veno's gear is her pet. Anyone who says 'I won't get a Herc because I'm concentrating on my gear' misses a bit of a point, because one could be a level 80 veno is level 60 gears and tank just as well with a Herc. Obviously, this is more relevant to your mage type veno, but I can't speak for any of the other types .

tweakz

Belial - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Anyone who says 'I won't get a Herc because I'm concentrating on my gear' misses a bit of a point, because one could be a level 80 veno is level 60 gears and tank just as well with a Herc. Obviously, this is more relevant to your mage type veno, but I can't speak for any of the other types .

Shush! You'll ruin my monopoly on intelligent game play!

But yeah, I get invited to all the tt's because my level 1 gears art smexy.

Anders - Lost City

Anders - Lost City wrote: »

GOD I HATE VENOS
**** VENOS
**** THEM
I AM BATMAN b:angryb:angry

GOD I HATE VENOS
**** VENOS
**** THEM
I AM BATMAN b:angry

Angerr - Harshlands

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

it seems to me that others, who do the same, are putting their money where it belongs first. it used to be that cash shop pets were considered luxuries, to be gotten *after* you had finished proper skill leveling and such, not as an instead of. i know a number of venos (not you, but others) who kept their own and other pets skills at minimun levels, and bought hercs instead. i was shocked when i first heard this, and still dont understand why someone would do that. somehow, i find it kind of sad.

I'm guessing its different on the PvE server but on the PvP server everyone wants the best possible gear so they can actually kill each other. To get good gear you need money, so you need a herc to farm money to buy a nix so that you can pvp. With a herc you can just walk into a squad mode HH and make a couple of mil in an hour. Then you can level up your skills and get crazy refines and shards.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

often it boils down to what does the veno spend money on? in my case, it has been on leveling my moves, and those of the pets i have. i have tried a few times to accumulate feathers for a phoenix (i have golems, but want a great air pet), but was always forced to sell them when too broke to level another of my moves. i believe that to be more important that skimping on that, to buy a herc, which i would have to do to from the time i began playing. and as BF said, back then, people were glad just to have a skilled veno, with strong golems...

btw, after an experience today, i think i *will* be asking clerics about their skill levels....a friend was trying to take down kong, and the cleric who needed it had only a level 1 res. and of course, as we waited to get our act together, kong didnt like my pet, and nailed me....roadkill with only a lv1 res in sight....sigh...b:chuckle

Clerics shouldn;t have to revive anyone unless someone did a bad move died.This is the reason a lot of them don't lvl revive and it get used about 20% of the time 15 is more like though.

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

Angerr - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm guessing its different on the PvE server but on the PvP server everyone wants the best possible gear so they can actually kill each other. To get good gear you need money, so you need a herc to farm money to buy a nix so that you can pvp. With a herc you can just walk into a squad mode HH and make a couple of mil in an hour. Then you can level up your skills and get crazy refines and shards.

You can't just walk in for an hour and make a couple mil lol,you have to be incredibly lucky to get that from one boss which takes up like 20-30 mins i dunno on your own.Thats after you spend an hour or 2 getting through the mobs,not to mention tt prices now are ****ed anyways cause of overfarming.

Hercs better used on fb mold hunts IMO,seems to be more money that way over time.