Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

_River - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

still confused, or do i need to say it slower?

Oh was that you that posted about your special buddha? With everyone insulting me I've forgotten names.

Besides, you were complaining about the thread being bumped. If you wanted it to die, thus I said, leave it alone.

And you say I flamed you. All I said was, if you didn't want it bumped, why did you post? Reasonable question right? Or at least I thought it was. Forgive me if I stepped on your toes... I was just pointing out that bumping it with your post, keeps it active... So therefore wouldn't that just make you just like everyone else, especially me?

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

indeed it was, insults come when theyre given first. this is where we label:

_River - Heavens Tear

lol I don't troll. I just post where I feel the need to say my piece.

Besides, like you're any better Who's insulting who now?

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

no one said i was any better, i just find it irresistable to play with people. welcome to my forums~

you dished first insult, i left argument on pause, comeback to pick up where i left off, adding all the BS you gave other people to throw into it.

Jack_Nel - Sanctuary

omg guys chill... i say guys cuz i know Tear is and well meh another veno..
seriousley calm the F down
now back on track


Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

Because they are!!!!!!!!!!! [I Always wanted to say that ] Now even i can lure (I love my genie) in stead of waithing on some crappy veno that sais i dont lure > will kill my pet> food costs to much... bla bla bla
Then if you cant tank, you cant lure, DD is not that high.. what do you want? > a cookie?!?!?

Would you do the same for the other classes? "Oh, look, a Wizard without full TT, YUCK! Let's leave him alone", or "Ew... a Non Tiger-Form barb, let's ignore the crappy tanker.", or "A cleric without Charm, Do not WANT."

YES! well maibe not thet TT example thats just stupid.. but a cleric widout a charm ( MP food) its preaty much usless in a Barb run , with a veno its dif, not so much presure... and a Non Tiger-Form barb?!?!?! .... what the hell is that, what does he do , maibe PVP and in that case his usless in TT and Boss tanking...
So yes ppl do discriminate.. i personaly DO and i have verry good reasons to do so...
if you dont like being an avrege veno and ignored, role another caracter and b:bye



sorry if i repeted what has been said i just diddnt wanna read the all flame thing... i saw the post here and i wanted to post ever since it first appeard b:laugh

_River - Heavens Tear

Lmao let people fight their own battles. Besides I was unaware you were perfect world international :O

Last I recall this was Perfect World International's forums not yours

Where's a mod when you need one? I'm sure they would say you don't own the forums.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Jack_Nel - Sanctuary wrote: »

omg guys chill... i say guys cuz i know Tear is and well meh another veno..
seriousley calm the F down
now back on track


Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

Because they are!!!!!!!!!!! [I Always wanted to say that ] Now even i can lure (I love my genie) in stead of waithing on some crappy veno that sais i dont lure > will kill my pet> food costs to much... bla bla bla
Then if you cant tank, you cant lure, DD is not that high.. what do you want? > a cookie?!?!?

Would you do the same for the other classes? "Oh, look, a Wizard without full TT, YUCK! Let's leave him alone", or "Ew... a Non Tiger-Form barb, let's ignore the crappy tanker.", or "A cleric without Charm, Do not WANT."

YES! well maibe not thet TT example thats just stupid.. but a cleric widout a charm ( MP food) its preaty much usless in a Barb run , with a veno its dif, not so much presure... and a Non Tiger-Form barb?!?!?! .... what the hell is that, what does he do , maibe PVP and in that case his usless in TT and Boss tanking...
So yes ppl do discriminate.. i personaly DO and i have verry good reasons to do so...
if you dont like being an avrege veno and ignored, role another caracter and b:bye



sorry if i repeted what has been said i just diddnt wanna read the all flame thing... i saw the post here and i wanted to post ever since it first appeard b:laugh

thats the most sense out of a butchered post anyones ever made. preach it sister.

someone pass the memo to the forum noob who the forum queen is (self proclaimed, who cares) around here.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

When a veno has a tab for an FB, or a sub for a TT run NO ONE cares weather or not they have a HERC. Say what you want but the point is valid. A cleric isn't asked before a TT run a resume of questions. Simply all anyone wants to know is their level before adding them or not into a squad. It is not inquired upon do you have TT gears? Or legendary? People do not ask what level of Purify, blue bubble, red bubble, vanguard, celestial seal, spirits gift. No one cares. They just know they have a lvl (fill in the blank) cleric. They may not know that the cleric spent every last dime they had buying a mount and therefore they didn't acquire skills, nor a good weapon or gears. A Herc can't tank if the veno is dead by a straggling mob that hits them just 1 time.

Some of your arguments are just ludicrous. Back in Nov, Dec. of last year before anyone had a HERC people were just happy to have someone to pull mobs. The long and short of it all is that people have gotten lazy, the herc has allowed that. It is easier to do a TT run or an FB with a herc tanking, but if venos are tanks, then what are barbs needed for? You guys kinda have this all messed up. Each class is needed for its strengths, no class was set up to do everything alone. I enjoy having a barb in a TT run, and likewise a veno herc or not. Barb and Veno team together to make an unbeatable fortress and the damage dealers and clerics are safe from getting squished. Say what you want, herc or no herc venos rock. I for one will NEVER judge a veno on weather or not they have a herc. As I said in a prior post, I know one without a herc that is more skilled with the class than anyone I know WITH the herc.STICK THAT IN YOUR PEACE PIPE AND SMOKE IT!

_River - Heavens Tear

Where's Konari and Stickygreen when we need them :O

_River - Heavens Tear

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

When a veno has a tab for an FB, or a sub for a TT run NO ONE cares weather or not they have a HERC. Say what you want but the point is valid. A cleric isn't asked before a TT run a resume of questions. Simply all anyone wants to know is their level before adding them or not into a squad. It is not inquired upon do you have TT gears? Or legendary? People do not ask what level of Purify, blue bubble, red bubble, vanguard, celestial seal, spirits gift. No one cares. They just know they have a lvl (fill in the blank) cleric. They may not know that the cleric spent every last dime they had buying a mount and therefore they didn't acquire skills, nor a good weapon or gears. A Herc can't tank if the veno is dead by a straggling mob that hits them just 1 time.

Some of your arguments are just ludicrous. Back in Nov, Dec. of last year before anyone had a HERC people were just happy to have someone to pull mobs. The long and short of it all is that people have gotten lazy, the herc has allowed that. It is easier to do a TT run or an FB with a herc tanking, but if venos are tanks, then what are barbs needed for? You guys kinda have this all messed up. Each class is needed for its strengths, no class was set up to do everything alone. I enjoy having a barb in a TT run, and likewise a veno herc or not. Barb and Veno team together to make an unbeatable fortress and the damage dealers and clerics are safe from getting squished. Say what you want, herc or no herc venos rock. I for one will NEVER judge a veno on weather or not they have a herc. As I said in a prior post, I know one without a herc that is more skilled with the class than anyone I know WITH the herc.STICK THAT IN YOUR PEACE PIPE AND SMOKE IT!

I agree

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

i suppose i can stfu long enough to agree. mods close thread por favor!

_River - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

i suppose i can stfu long enough to agree. mods close thread por favor!

I will agree with that now too.

Please close this thread before any of us try to kill each other again x.x

Belial - Heavens Tear

b:sad Nobody got my funneh funneh joke about the Herc Hat. This thread MUST be closed *fume*.

b:chuckle

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

**applause, BratFury!!**

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree

MrConce - Harshlands

Interesting talk. Popcorn good. Keep it going.

Belial - Heavens Tear

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

When a veno has a tab for an FB, or a sub for a TT run NO ONE cares weather or not they have a HERC. Say what you want but the point is valid. A cleric isn't asked before a TT run a resume of questions. Simply all anyone wants to know is their level before adding them or not into a squad. It is not inquired upon do you have TT gears? Or legendary? People do not ask what level of Purify, blue bubble, red bubble, vanguard, celestial seal, spirits gift. No one cares. They just know they have a lvl (fill in the blank) cleric. They may not know that the cleric spent every last dime they had buying a mount and therefore they didn't acquire skills, nor a good weapon or gears.

Funny. Do you consider why nobody asks a cleric before a TT run whether they've upgraded their spells, or whether they have BB? Because it's expected and accepted that a cleric will have their healing skills maxed in order to cope with the demand in the TT - how often did you get any cleric without BB being the only healer in anything above TT1-2 (successfully)? It just doesn't happen. You can quite readily see when a cleric isn't properly geared/got the right spells/weapon since the whole party is dead quite fast.

Same kind of thing does apply for a Herc, only most people don't *assume* venos have one, like they would assume a cleric has some appropriate healing spells, or that a barb has some appropriate tanking skills.

Like it has been re-iterated over and over - if there is a whole party available, no reason not to take any veno. If there is a party with 5 people who need boss killing and no barb or cleric, then they have the right to ask for a character that potentially can tank the best (i.e. a veno with a Herc).

It gets quite upsetting to keep seeing all these people talking about how they have bagfulls of pets and how they're evidently SO much more skilled than someone with a Herc...

*I* have bagfulls of pets too, you know!! *whine* b:chuckle

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Belial - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Funny. Do you consider why nobody asks a cleric before a TT run whether they've upgraded their spells, or whether they have BB? Because it's expected and accepted that a cleric will have their healing skills maxed in order to cope with the demand in the TT - how often did you get any cleric without BB being the only healer in anything above TT1-2 (successfully)? It just doesn't happen. You can quite readily see when a cleric isn't properly geared/got the right spells/weapon since the whole party is dead quite fast.

I did this in if by TT1 one you mean TT60 then yes I was the only cleric with 2 Venos one with Herc and one without and a Barb.The Barb was letting the Venos do most of the work weh to cam to the last boss but even we all died at one point in time.

I was the only cleric untill another came to join us.I was lvl 50 with no maxed out skills or BB.I would say at my lvl I was doing a good jop as I am use to situations like this.The Veno with Herc wasn't use to using it at the time and thought oh this would be easy as the Veno is use to and Eldergroth Marksman.The Barb wasn't doing its part waiting untillthe boss was at below 50% to attack it.I don't think this Barb which we did know one another did trust me.This was in my former faction but the Barb was not a member a my faction told me to come.

I would say that not all Venos are great at using a Herc. as it may take time to accually learn the pet.They are only good at bosses and dungeons other than that Nixes are far better all around pet.

I lost great deal of xp on this night and was demoted from marshal to excutor a week later I left.

I then joined a really great faction very helpfull and with some histroy behind it.

The other cleric said the Barb should of attacked sooner to take the heat off of the Venos who were healing like mad against this boss.I agree and if he did I would still be in that faction.There really was no coodination when a Barb doesn't trust me.I have been in worse situations in another game and I was the healer there as well.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

often it boils down to what does the veno spend money on? in my case, it has been on leveling my moves, and those of the pets i have. i have tried a few times to accumulate feathers for a phoenix (i have golems, but want a great air pet), but was always forced to sell them when too broke to level another of my moves. i believe that to be more important that skimping on that, to buy a herc, which i would have to do to from the time i began playing. and as BF said, back then, people were glad just to have a skilled veno, with strong golems...

btw, after an experience today, i think i *will* be asking clerics about their skill levels....a friend was trying to take down kong, and the cleric who needed it had only a level 1 res. and of course, as we waited to get our act together, kong didnt like my pet, and nailed me....roadkill with only a lv1 res in sight....sigh...b:chuckle

Belial - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Funny. Do you consider why nobody asks a cleric before a TT run whether they've upgraded their spells, or whether they have BB? Because it's expected and accepted that a cleric will have their healing skills maxed in order to cope with the demand in the TT - how often did you get any cleric without BB being the only healer in anything above TT1-2 (successfully)? It just doesn't happen. You can quite readily see when a cleric isn't properly geared/got the right spells/weapon since the whole party is dead quite fast.

Same kind of thing does apply for a Herc, only most people don't *assume* venos have one, like they would assume a cleric has some appropriate healing spells, or that a barb has some appropriate tanking skills.

Like it has been re-iterated over and over - if there is a whole party available, no reason not to take any veno. If there is a party with 5 people who need boss killing and no barb or cleric, then they have the right to ask for a character that potentially can tank the best (i.e. a veno with a Herc).

It gets quite upsetting to keep seeing all these people talking about how they have bagfulls of pets and how they're evidently SO much more skilled than someone with a Herc...

*I* have bagfulls of pets too, you know!! *whine* b:chuckle

Foxx - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But I choose my GOOD gear over a herc anyday.

epic fail
(damn my message was too short, so Im typing this to make it longer)

Foxx - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

See, I tank with my armored bear. I do FF, Lunar, and other things with it.

If you do lunar with your Bear, then its because youve given it herc buffs such as strong etc. No way you can do lunar with a plain armored bear.

In which case you effectively have a herc anyway.

Angerr - Harshlands

Basically look at it this way:

Veno with herc can tank 90% (rough guess) of bosses. They do it for free, costs no mana pots, no mana charm, no hp charm. And it only takes one person.

If you don't tank with a herc you're taking a barb and cleric, meaning HP charms and MP charms / pots are gonna be ticking.

If you tank with a herc, bosses die a LOT faster from reflect and pet damage on [?] mobs. I see no reason why anyone would ask for a barb and cleric to come and waste their charms and make HH runs take longer. My only justification is if your doing fb69 boss, general warlord in HH or the certain world bosses which can't be herc tanked.

Its not just lazyness you know. Why spent more time doing something repetitive when you can do it for cheaper with less people in a quicker amount of time.

tweakz

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Where's Konari and Stickygreen when we need them :O

Dunno, forum starting to resemble a run down trailer park. Good discussions are getting few and far between. I own a large forum myself, and it helps to have stuff pointed out once in a while since I can't be bothered to read everything posted. Maybe a good idea to submit support tickets: http://support.perfectworld.com/ticketing

I don't care if someone's right or wrong. Personal attacks and insults just ruin a forum. I banned and lost a friend for trashing my forum with them.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Angerr - Harshlands wrote: »

Basically look at it this way:

Veno with herc can tank 90% (rough guess) of bosses. They do it for free, costs no mana pots, no mana charm, no hp charm. And it only takes one person.

If you don't tank with a herc you're taking a barb and cleric, meaning HP charms and MP charms / pots are gonna be ticking.

If you tank with a herc, bosses die a LOT faster from reflect and pet damage on [?] mobs. I see no reason why anyone would ask for a barb and cleric to come and waste their charms and make HH runs take longer. My only justification is if your doing fb69 boss, general warlord in HH or the certain world bosses which can't be herc tanked.

Its not just lazyness you know. Why spent more time doing something repetitive when you can do it for cheaper with less people in a quicker amount of time.

Try the word fun

BratFury - Heavens Tear

b:shockedb:shutup

Belial - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Funny. Do you consider why nobody asks a cleric before a TT run whether they've upgraded their spells, or whether they have BB? Because it's expected and accepted that a cleric will have their healing skills maxed in order to cope with the demand in the TT - how often did you get any cleric without BB being the only healer in anything above TT1-2 (successfully)? It just doesn't happen. You can quite readily see when a cleric isn't properly geared/got the right spells/weapon since the whole party is dead quite fast.I have NEVER seen anyone ask for a resume from a cleric as to their credentials and skills before any run. It is assumed.. you know what assumptions do? This reminds me of a time when I was in TT 1-1 with a squad with a cleric level 65 when asked why they wasn't running blue bubble, they asked what it was and said they went for the one that gave more damage. Would have been nice to know that BEFORE.. but of course no one asked. That did NOT make this cleric less able and believe it or not she pulled it all off without BB. We can continue to argue this point til we reach page 200; likely at that point you will still see through your glass house and rose colored glasses. OMGLAZERZ says it best.. when you wanna be easy breezy cover girl get a herc. NO SKILL INVOLVED!

tweakz wrote: »

Dunno, forum starting to resemble a run down trailer park. Good discussions are getting few and far between. I own a large forum myself, and it helps to have stuff pointed out once in a while since I can't be bothered to read everything posted. Maybe a good idea to submit support tickets: http://support.perfectworld.com/ticketing

I don't care if someone's right or wrong. Personal attacks and insults just ruin a forum. I banned and lost a friend for trashing my forum with them.Pot meet kettle?

Alphae - Lost City

Actually, if I need a cleric to BB, I ALWAYS ask if they have a charm. If I take a wiz as a DD, I want them to have charm too, DDs aren't too effective if they're medding in front of a boss because their MP runs out faster than they can pot/powder it back.

And, Brat, actually Solandri said it best. The only difference between a herc veno and a non-herc veno is... the herc. Skill never comes into play. There are stupid and pro players in both categories.

@Nelae
So, you find it fun to take hours to do something when you could have had that thing done, and done several other different things?

I don't.

That being said, I am not the type that enjoys spamhealing my herc when I am in squad, but I DO solo TT, and the herc is first for soloing.

Signako - Heavens Tear

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you do lunar with your Bear, then its because youve given it herc buffs such as strong etc. No way you can do lunar with a plain armored bear.

In which case you effectively have a herc anyway.

She does tank Lunar with a plain armored bear, she tanks Single Mode with it, and she can handle a number of mobs in Squad mode. No she does not have Herc buffs on the bear, and I seen her do it myself. When someone says they do something, next time sit back, and think which mode, or what do they mean by they can do it, don't assume someone cannot do something, because you remember what happens when you assume, it makes a "**** out of you and me."

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

but that makes the boast null and void, any stupid pet can tank solo mode mobs/weaker squad mobs (most are the equivalent of gouf or khewy in terms of strength) in their 80s/90s. its not impressive, nor does it count. its just a way of fluffing something up to make it look impressive via loopholes.

'i can tank TT/ frost/ FB89 etc on my bear'
(fineprint: only on solo mode, and not the bosses on squad)

dont brag if theres stipulations youre not sharing, otherwise, youre just BSing.

Signako - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

but that makes the boast null and void, any stupid pet can tank solo mode mobs/weaker squad mobs (most are the equivalent of gouf or khewy in terms of strength) in their 80s/90s. its not impressive, nor does it count. its just a way of fluffing something up to make it look impressive via loopholes.

'i can tank TT/ frost/ FB89 etc on my bear'
(fineprint: only on solo mode, and not the bosses on squad)

dont brag if theres stipulations youre not sharing, otherwise, youre just BSing.

But it does count, anywhere counts, Single mode is still part of Lunar, you still get the same drops from the Squad mode(To a point) so chill forum troll, you just showing that your still on here not leveling. I bet if you never responded on any thread you would be like 100 or something, lol goes to show you like to put your two cents anywhere, and in the end made me laugh again, if it was not for forum trolls, the net would be less fun, so what do you got next for me? A bit about blademasters? More about venos? Or just something else to make me laugh?

On a side note: You guys need to chill out, veno's can do amazing things, with, and without Hercs, they are the fine line between wipe or no wipe when it comes to parties, every class is important in their own way, and without you veno's this game is unbalanced. I will take a veno with me that does not have a herc any day. Sorry Herc users, but I rather just enjoy the game, and instead of watching you round up monsters, I rather let you become a DD, and just enjoy the game with me. So any veno that does not have a herc(or won't use it around me) want to have some fun, do TT/FF/Lunar or anything. Hit me up I will always take you along, and never hate on you for not having a herc, or having one.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

so chill forum troll, you just showing that your still on here not leveling.

its called xfire, i can pull up a browser in the middle of leveling by pressing a hotkey to lol at noobs on here in between casts.

But it does count, anywhere counts, Single mode is still part of Lunar

no, it doesnt, its trying to make her sound high and mighty by doing something impressive without a herc. its not impressive at all if any stupid pet can do it.

being able to solo something that deserves bragging rights is:
-squad mode
-bosses included
-not just mobs

I bet if you never responded on any thread you would be like 100 or something, lol

ive played about 5 months, which is about the same time it took the original first 5 90+ people on sanct to get there. follow your own advice and:

don't assume someone ... because you remember what happens when you assume, it makes a "**** out of you and me."

Signako - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

its called xfire, i can pull up a browser in the middle of leveling by pressing a hotkey to lol at noobs on here in between casts.


no, it doesnt, its trying to make her sound high and mighty by doing something impressive without a herc. its not impressive at all if any stupid pet can do it.

being able to solo something that deserves bragging rights is:
-squad mode
-bosses included
-not just mobs

ive played about 5 months, which is about the same time it took the original first 5 90+ people on sanct to get there. follow your own advice and:

1. I am currently waiting for a few friends to catch up, because I for one, rather quest, do TT/FF/FB/Lunar with friends, not just solo. If i wanted to solo, i would just buy me Oblivion or something.

2. Anything does count, just because by your standards you think that it does not, well what do you know, (same for me what do i know) your a level 92 veno on sanc(woopie do, but hey im just a 89 blademaster on HT).

3. LOL on xfire that program is ok, hate that it does overwrite the xvid codec for xp and vista, but hey thats why i don't use it. Good job talking and casting, does this mean your in window mode? Eh its nice and all but I love my games full screen :P just enjoy it more.

4. LOL you already assumed so much, if I would put it in a bag it would have exploded already.

5. Just relax, its a game, you fighting over things is nothing, lets agree to disagree veno's = great class, with and without herc's. Before hercs I bet you thought you was awsome with your high level pets, so in the end you won't change anyones mind, there is going to be venos who hate hercs, and some who going to love them. In the end, this thread was about why venos are not welcomed in squads, they never said to tank, just only said why? You made your points, but you keep dragging on.

In the end Barb > Herc when it comes to all bosses. Herc > Barb when it comes to solo. Now I am done, I defended the veno without a herc, defended ones that do. Defended _River, and anyone else that has a brain. Now I am going to take some of my advise and shut up. Oh and Forum troll if you want to talk more make a character on HT and talk to me all you like. Seems you would enjoy that. b:laugh