Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

Belial - Heavens Tear

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(...) herc hatter (...)

I'm sorry to interrupt the argument, but I just couldn't help b:laugh at this one.

http://yfrog.com/0620090718221318p

I'd love a Hercules Hat b:chuckle.

_River - Heavens Tear

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So, _River, let me get this straight. You want people to respect your choice to not get a Herc. Yet you're not willing to respect other people's right to choose who they want in their squad.

It's not discrimination. If someone gets turned down for a job because they aren't qualified enough, is that discrimination? It's the same with squads. They have the right to choose whether or not they want you in their squad. And if you get rejected cause you don't have Herc. Too bad. Tons of people don't get hired cause they don't have a college degree. Do you hear them complaining? They either get the degree or accept the fact that their options are limited and move on.

Take your example. TT3-1. What did you do on those runs? Lure, Amp, pass sparks, and DD, right? Nothing wrong with that. However, a Veno with a Herc can Tank every boss in TT3-1. It's a fact that a veno with a herc is capable of doing more than a herc-less veno. Note that I said capable. Whether or not the Veno has the ability to fulfill that capacity is solely based on the individual.

You want us to respect your right to not have a Herc. Fine with me. That's your choice. However, you have to respect other's right to choose whether or not they want you in their squad.

So you're saying I'm less capable than a herc veno? Wow...

I gave credit to venos with hercs, in case you hadn't read that. I respect that people want herc venos in their parties. Why don't they give chances to those of us who don't, however? They say that we are useless, no we aren't. If you have a full TT squad with a barb, why is there a need for a herc veno when its clearly said that the barb is tanking?

Yes you can lure with hercs. I also said that I agree with people saying that the only difference between herc venos and non herc veno is one has a herc and one doesn't. But why does not having a herc make me less capable in a full party where a herc isn't really necessary?

Comparing jobs to having a herc is like comparing apples and oranges. Having a herc doesn't make me less qualified as a veno if I'm not needed for tanking. If I already say I don't wanna tank, why is this an issue? Having a herc and not having one doesn't make any veno less of a veno.

Anders-- Die

_River - Heavens Tear

Cambriella - Sanctuary wrote: »

Uh, there's your answer. Same with parties. If they have requirements for having a herc and consider the rest unwanted (useless in your words), than that's their choice. Don't go for it.

I already said that was FINE. Read my freaking posts people sheesh.

But MY POINT IS:

WHY do people think us WITHOUT herc are LESS CAPABLE if the situation doesn't require a herc?

DOCTORWHO - Dreamweaver

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, I saw a World Chat shout the other day, screaming for anyone who could help do a boss to come and assist with it. I, also needing the boss, volunteered my services, and was asked if I had a Herc, when I informed him that no, I did not, I was promptly ignored. This is not the only time I have a seen Venos without Hercs being treated like ****. Everywhere I look, I see people shouting for "Veno with Herc!" What gives? I know, it's the best tank in the entire game, I know that it's capable of doing pretty much 99% of the bosses, but still, why the hell would you ignore anyone trying to help, regardless of if they have Herc or not?

Would you do the same for the other classes? "Oh, look, a Wizard without full TT, YUCK! Let's leave him alone", or "Ew... a Non Tiger-Form barb, let's ignore the crappy tanker.", or "A cleric without Charm, Do not WANT."

The sad part is, I know a few people already are guilty of doing these things. What the bloody Hell, people? Just because we don't play the game the way you think we should play it suddenly means that we aren't worth your time? If you're so God damned good at this game, why the Hell did you ask for help in the first place? If someone volunteers to help you after you've asked for help, don't pick apart what they have, or don't have. You don't know a damn thing about how they play. Obviously, if they offered to help you, they're probably a decent person, and since they're not QQing and whining for help, they're probably a decent player. Hell, I've seen things done better by players that defied the standards than the ones that are exactly the same as everyone else.

It just disgusts me how some you are so wrapped up in the "Standards of PW" that you ignore those who don't fit the molds. Veno doesn't mean Herc. Clerics are not just your healing slaves. Barbs aren't just there to have the **** beat out of them and do very little damage.

And just FYI? I party with Charmless Clerics all the time. The ones who don't carry charms are usually good enough to carry the powders to make up for it.

But it seems like some people wouldn't even give them the chance. And, yeah. I am not happy about that. I'm probably going to get flamed for this post, but at this point, if I can get even one person to stop and think about how they play, it'll all be worth it.

I agree-If somebody VOLUNTEERS THIER HELP-And U get flamed for posting what U said,TELL THEM THIS-Beggers cant be picky on what they are GIVENb:surrenderb:thanks

Belial - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I gave credit to venos with hercs, in case you hadn't read that. I respect that people want herc venos in their parties. Why don't they give chances to those of us who don't, however? They say that we are useless, no we aren't. If you have a full TT squad with a barb, why is there a need for a herc veno when its clearly said that the barb is tanking?

Yes you can lure with hercs. I also said that I agree with people saying that the only difference between herc venos and non herc veno is one has a herc and one doesn't. But why does not having a herc make me less capable in a full party where a herc isn't really necessary?

Righto, but you do agree that when tanking is required, a Herc is desirable - in such instances a party may not want a Golem veno and specifically be in need of a Herc veno.

Not owning a Herc makes nobody less of a veno, owning a Herc makes nobody more of a veno either. However, owning a herc will allow a veno more flexibility in what she can do, over and above a non-Herc veno. No need to get all upset about it, it's just a fact. It is mighty unfair 'not' to be included in things and I agree that if there is a tank/cleric combo in a team which is killing a boss that there is no reason to take a veno no matter what pet they have (especially since the Herc doesn't output a noticeably higher damage than a Golem).

_River - Heavens Tear

DOCTORWHO - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree-If somebody VOLUNTEERS THIER HELP-And U get flamed for posting what U said,TELL THEM THIS-Beggers cant be picky on what they are GIVENb:surrenderb:thanks

b:victory

A-freaking-men

_River - Heavens Tear

Belial - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Righto, but you do agree that when tanking is required, a Herc is desirable - in such instances a party may not want a Golem veno and specifically be in need of a Herc veno.

Not owning a Herc makes nobody less of a veno, owning a Herc makes nobody more of a veno either. However, owning a herc will allow a veno more flexibility in what she can do, over and above a non-Herc veno. No need to get all upset about it, it's just a fact. It is mighty unfair 'not' to be included in things and I agree that if there is a tank/cleric combo in a team which is killing a boss that there is no reason to take a veno no matter what pet they have (especially since the Herc doesn't output a noticeably higher damage than a Golem).

Agreed. See, I tank with my armored bear. I do FF, Lunar, and other things with it. So if my armored bear can do these things, why would I need a herc? Why would others need a herc?

I'm not upset, its just frustrating when people split hairs and digress from the actual point.

Belial - Heavens Tear

Just realised I got all my negatives and double negatives mixed up >_<.

"It is mighty unfair 'not' to be included in things and I agree that if there is a tank/cleric combo in a team which is killing a boss that there is no reason not to take a veno no matter what pet they have (especially since the Herc doesn't output a noticeably higher damage than a Golem)."

Better way to say would have been: "It is mighty unfair 'not' to be included in things. I do agree with you; if there is a tank/cleric combo in a boss killing team, there is no reason not to take a veno simply because of a pet they have (especially since the Herc doesn't output a noticeably higher damage than a Golem)."

Drinking is bad for my grammer innit lulz etc et al.

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So you're saying I'm less capable than a herc veno? Wow...

I gave credit to venos with hercs, in case you hadn't read that. I respect that people want herc venos in their parties. Why don't they give chances to those of us who don't, however? They say that we are useless, no we aren't. If you have a full TT squad with a barb, why is there a need for a herc veno when its clearly said that the barb is tanking?

Yes you can lure with hercs. I also said that I agree with people saying that the only difference between herc venos and non herc veno is one has a herc and one doesn't. But why does not having a herc make me less capable in a full party where a herc isn't really necessary?

Comparing jobs to having a herc is like comparing apples and oranges. Having a herc doesn't make me less qualified as a veno if I'm not needed for tanking. If I already say I don't wanna tank, why is this an issue? Having a herc and not having one doesn't make any veno less of a veno.

Anders-- Die

Most squads want a veno with a Herc to TANK. Your whole arguement is predicated on the squad not needing you to tank. Squads that ask for a herc veno specifically want them to tank. Usually because they can't get a Barb or they don't want to use a 6-person squad.

Note that I said capable. Whether or not the Veno has the ability to fulfill that capacity is solely based on the individual.

I never said a Herc Veno was the be all-end all of venos or that a Herc-less veno was useless. Read that sentence I wrote. It means that each Veno should be taken on their own merits regardless of what pets they have. A good veno is a good veno with or without a Herc. However, a Veno with a Herc can tank things a Herc-less veno cannot.

I guess that medifore was too obtuse for you. Let me spell it out for you. Since you do not have a Herc, those squads that need a herc veno to tank will not take you since you are not QUALIFIED for the job.

Complaining about it just makes you look more childish and petualant.

_River - Heavens Tear

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Most squads want a veno with a Herc to TANK. Your whole arguement is predicated on the squad not needing you to tank. Squads that ask for a herc veno specifically want them to tank. Usually because they can't get a Barb or they don't want to use a 6-person squad.

I guess that medifore was too obtuse for you. Let me spell it out for you. Since you do not have a Herc, those squads that need a herc veno to tank will not take you since you are not QUALIFIED for the job.

Complaining about it just makes you look more childish and petualant.

Go to hell?

You're obviously trying to marvel me with your use of big words. -1 for you. I know what you are saying. However you ignore my words and just continue to degrade me. Which to me proves you are useless.

If I can tank just as well as a herc veno in lunar, FF, and other areas that people commonly use hercs for, why is there a need for one? If you can answer that, you stuck up pain in my ****, then I will stop arguing.

Oh and note to you, I enjoy being called names

Signako - Heavens Tear

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Most squads want a veno with a Herc to TANK. Your whole arguement is predicated on the squad not needing you to tank. Squads that ask for a herc veno specifically want them to tank. Usually because they can't get a Barb or they don't want to use a 6-person squad.

I guess that medifore was too obtuse for you. Let me spell it out for you. Since you do not have a Herc, those squads that need a herc veno to tank will not take you since you are not QUALIFIED for the job.

Complaining about it just makes you look more childish and petualant.

Coming from stuck up veno like yourself, telling another veno that she is childish makes me laugh. Instead of reading what she was trying to say, and skimming over everything like a person with ADD, and nit picking everything you only wanted to hear, instead of reading the whole thing, shows your just looking for a fight, simmer down, go back to you fat dough boy you call a Herc, and go on playing. This thread is about why veno's are not invited to parties if they don't have a Herc, not "They won't invite me because my pet can't tank" but hey you must of skimmed over the first person who made this threads post. Go forum troll some where else, because I for one, rather have a Veno who can debuff, and attack. For any veno that does not have a herc, you will always have a friend to party with. Hit me up.

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear

I never called you names or used profanity in any of my posts in this thread. You have. If anything, that reflects on your maturity level.

Get it through your head that Hercs can tank bosses and mobs better than regular pets and people want them in their squads. Can you tank TT bosses or Frost bosses with a regular pet? That's all there is to it. You're just blowing the issue up cause you think you're being treated unfair and need a place to complain.

@signako
Nice blind accusation that I have a Herc there. Go back to the BM forums where you can complain that all the Venos are taking your grinding spots.

_River - Heavens Tear

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I never called you names or used profanity in any of my posts in this thread. You have. If anything, that reflects on your maturity level.

Get it through your head that Hercs can tank bosses and mobs better than regular pets and people want them in their squads. Can you tank TT bosses or Frost bosses with a regular pet? That's all there is to it. You're just blowing the issue up cause you think you're being treated unfair and need a place to complain.

@signako
Nice blind accusation that I have a Herc there. Go back to the BM forums where you can complain that all the Venos are taking your grinding spots.

Lol. Using big words makes you "look" mature, but I don't care about them.

And for your information I tank lunar and frostland bosses with my armored bear. I don't need a herc for that. I also tank things with my kowlin.

I'm sure if I wanted to I could tank TT bosses with my pet. Oh that's right, I do tank TT bosses with my armored bear. You don't believe me ask people that know me. However since I prefer blademasters and barbs as my tanks, that's another story. Yet again you missed my point.

And if I wanted a place to complain, I'd go to my mom for that I don't need forums to hide behind.

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear

And you missed my point. Just because you can tank bosses with your regular pets doesn't mean a Herc can't do it better and safer. Plus, I doubt any regular pet could tank a TT SQUAD mode boss.

Signako - Heavens Tear

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I never called you names or used profanity in any of my posts in this thread. You have. If anything, that reflects on your maturity level.

Get it through your head that Hercs can tank bosses and mobs better than regular pets and people want them in their squads. Can you tank TT bosses or Frost bosses with a regular pet? That's all there is to it. You're just blowing the issue up cause you think you're being treated unfair and need a place to complain.

@signako
Nice blind accusation that I have a Herc there. Go back to the BM forums where you can complain that all the Venos are taking your grinding spots.

Lmao a veno taking my grind spots? Your joking right? The moment they attack any mob I attack, I pull out my axes, and for the next hour make their life a living hell, by aoe stealing everything they have. So if anyone is complaining on who is taking who's mobs or grinding spots, its you venos against me. Also why go to the bm forums, this is general discussion and if you don't like it, you can go get yourself a butter ball and go solo some TT's while I enjoy the game, make money, rep, items, and in the end, know that I enjoyed the game, and laughed my **** off at your comments.

_River - Heavens Tear

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And you missed my point. Just because you can tank bosses with your regular pets doesn't mean a Herc can't do it better and safer. Plus, I doubt any regular pet could tank a TT SQUAD mode boss.

No I have already said that I acknowledge what you are saying, please pay more attention to my posts.

My armored bear tanks TT squad mode thanks.

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear

Then you've answered your own question. People want Hercs because they can tank better. Herc needs less heals and can tank more mobs so the Veno can spend more time attacking. Thus, it keeps the squad safer. That's the way it is. No use complaining about it cause it's not going to change.

And about my "big words". That's the way I talk and the way I write. You're the one who feels the need to degrade me for that. So if I can go to hell. You First!

_River - Heavens Tear

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then you've answered your own question. People want Hercs because they can tank better. Herc needs less heals and can tank more mobs so the Veno can spend more time attacking. Thus, it keeps the squad safer. That's the way it is. No use complaining about it cause it's not going to change.

And about my "big words". That's the way I talk and the way I write. You're the one who feels the need to degrade me for that. So if I can go to hell. You First!

Why thank you, I am going demon, so I will enjoy hell b:pleasedb:laughb:thanksb:bye

No it has not answered my question. But you can't answer it anyways. So no thanks ^^

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

**APPLAUSE!!**

you got it! the herc owners act like they are the best venos in the game, but its HOW you play, not what you buy, that makes the *real* difference

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A-freaking-men.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

why the heck are you bumping month old flame fests? mods close this thread before it erupts again!

quote back on page 31.... _River happens to be the idiot who makes the flames start again, how lovely.
after calling me the trouble maker here.

_River - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

quote back on page 31.... _River happens to be the idiot who makes the flames start again, how lovely.
after calling me the trouble maker here.

WOOTS I ARE IDIOT XD

Nah, there are a few people who have posted their thoughts. But people seem to like picking fights with my point of view since I can fight back.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

half your points are invalid/insulting other people, how is that fighting back? if your entire argument is insults, youve losted the battle.

btw- armored bear cant tank TT bosses, nor can he tank FB89 bosses, quit BSing people.

_River - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

half your points are invalid/insulting other people, how is that fighting back? if your entire argument is insults, youve losted the battle.

btw- armored bear cant tank TT bosses, nor can he tank FB89 bosses, quit BSing people.

My armored bear does tank TT bosses. If you don't believe me then come on a TT run with me and find out.

I never claimed to be able to tank fb89 bosses. I said I farmed fb89. Didn't say I tanked the bosses

And my points, are all made based on my experience and talking with other venos. If its anything I'm guilty of its insulting people only in defense of them insulting my intellegence and experience. I have a different background than others do in this area, so I don't expect people to believe me. so I can easily show you, or give you names of people that have seen me tank TT bosses in squad mode with my armored bear.

Signako - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

half your points are invalid/insulting other people, how is that fighting back? if your entire argument is insults, youve losted the battle.

btw- armored bear cant tank TT bosses, nor can he tank FB89 bosses, quit BSing people.

First you jump on _River saying that she is a idiot for starting up old flames, and you won't keep your mouth shut? Learn from what you say, and just let this die. God your level 92 your never ever going to get to level 100 the rate your going.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

actually im pretty damn close to 93 after 3 days, at 59% to be exact. ill get through my levels in no time.

i was just merely pointing out river is stupid for being such a hypocrite, pointing me out as a bringer of flames, when she/he/it is doing the trolling.

go solo shooting aur: substancia, take pics of it, and ill believe you, kay ?

edit: even more fun, show me 1-3 drummer and soul banisher done by an armored bear! i know herc has np with those!

Signako - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

actually im pretty damn close to 93 after 3 days, at 59% to be exact. ill get through my levels in no time.

i was just merely pointing out river is stupid for being such a hypocrite, pointing me out as a bringer of flames, when she/he/it is doing the trolling.

go solo shooting aur: substancia, take pics of it, and ill believe you, kay ?

But yet your not keeping quiet, your putting down someone, you don't even know, you are just making more flames, and why may you ask? Does it help you in anyway possible? No just let this die, leave her alone, and just go level to 93 already, if you got that in 3 days, just think if you never posted, and refreshing this page over and over, you might be even closer to 93 @_@ like omg. Do us a favor, leave her alone, go level, and lets have fun.

_River - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

actually im pretty damn close to 93 after 3 days, at 59% to be exact. ill get through my levels in no time.

i was just merely pointing out river is stupid for being such a hypocrite, pointing me out as a bringer of flames, when she/he/it is doing the trolling.

go solo shooting aur: substancia, take pics of it, and ill believe you, kay ?

Look all I said to you was stop complaining about this thread being revived. That's all. I didn't tell you anything other than that. I didn't call you a flamer. I then gave my point of view on this subject. If people hate me because of that, fine. At least I'm not trying to hide behind a computer making accusations. I am asking a legitimate question.

And in case people haven't noticed, I'm not looking for an answer from a veno. I have said that I acknowledged the benefits of hercs over regular pets. How is that flaming and insulting people? Yes I have insulted people, I admit that already.

I don't have to prove anything to you. You can doubt me all you want to, but the people that matter know I can do what I say. And besides, I didn't say I could tank EVERY TT boss -_- besides, I avoid TT at all costs. If you read my earlier posts, I buy the mats I need if I want, not farm them.

Please if you're gonna flame me I would appreciate you reading what I say instead of skimming through it.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

and id appreciate if you could learn to detect sarcasm instead of starting **** over an irrelevant joke. if you dont want to be flamed like this:



then learn to control your mouth, and not jump to conclusions. if you wanted to tell me 'dont complain,' the words 'egotistical idiot' werent needed, as there wasnt a hint of condescension in the damn post.

_River - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

and id appreciate if you could learn to detect sarcasm instead of starting **** over an irrelevant joke. if you dont want to be flamed like this:



then learn to control your mouth, and not jump to conclusions. if you wanted to tell me 'dont complain,' the words 'egotistical idiot' werent needed, as there wasnt a hint of condescension in the damn post.

Wow you're confusing the heck out of me x.x But I'm over you. If you wanna waste my time, I'll just ignore ya And that picture is actually pretty sexy~

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

*Yawns* Egotistical idiot. (not needed part) If you didn't want someone bumping the thread, you shouldn't have replied. Now you've got my interest in this stupid thread.

still confused, or do i need to say it slower?