Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

Alyyy - Sanctuary

Amehlea - Sanctuary wrote: »

I unite with the venos against Hercs!

Q_Qb:surrender to tell the truth i rarely see venos without hercs....


and gee grow up why r u all flaming... <.< its like "homo homini lupus" <.< omg

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

Clerics are not just your healing slaves

And just FYI? I party with Charmless Clerics all the time. The ones who don't carry charms are usually good enough to carry the powders to make up for it.

thank you .... i think charms are re*arded.....newer liked them <.< (exept.... when killin mantavip....)

i usualy feel useless when partying with a veno... when i target the mob its dead <.<

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Amehlea - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am a lvl 73 veno with a fully decked out shaodu cub and i love my cub nothing will ever make me go ohh what a piece of junk....
I am up to the point where no one wants to party with me in fbs and suchs cause i don't have a ugly fat budah. if they only want a veno with herc to save on charms and repairs well guess what
make them pay you for your services. you payed a butt load for yur herc
more then theyr ll ever pay in repears I am sure
if all they want is venos with hercs hell let them buy you a herc is what i say cause i aint putting money in an ugly peice of fat budah buns lol.
Plus my Shaodu cub has class what do a fat yellow dude have?



I unite with the venos against Hercs!

why the heck are you bumping month old flame fests? mods close this thread before it erupts again!

.... and my buddha has a mass following religion throughout asia. does your bear have that?

BratFury - Heavens Tear

I would take your bet and raise you. I know a lvl 75ish veno who doesn't have a herc. Her pet bag is full and she does an AWESOME job. Matter of fact she is so good and skillful, in TT when one of her pets died before the mob had a chance to even hit her she had another pet in its place tanking.

Hercs are the be all and end all of venos. Yes they are SUPERheroes. But they are also dull. Not to mention ugly. I would take the veno I know with skill, experience and someone who is pleasant to be around over a veno with a herc ANY day of the week.

Herc=someone who had money to buy a uber tanker.

Veno without a herc= someone who has learned how to use their skills, their pets and their experience to work their character.

I for one do not think a veno without a herc is useless. Someone who knows how to play their character means more than someone who dont. PERIOD>with or without a herc.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

dont make things up they dont add to your argument. you -need- a herc to kill those mobs during bean collecting, ive seen them kill wizards in LA who have 2x the pdef of my old golem.

it saves time and money in TT by minimizing repair costs, and makes mob luring and killing faster whether its tanking, or pulling a mob for the barb while holding its own.

5$ says i can outplay any veno without a herc, and for the most part i have yet to be proven wrong :P

FYI: you dont need MONEY to buy one, i got my legendary pets for ~40m and ive been playing maybe 3 1/2 months max

_River - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

why the heck are you bumping month old flame fests? mods close this thread before it erupts again!

.... and my buddha has a mass following religion throughout asia. does your bear have that?

*Yawns* Egotistical idiot. If you didn't want someone bumping the thread, you shouldn't have replied. Now you've got my interest in this stupid thread.

I, for one, have NO herc and DO NOT plan on getting one. I prefer Barbs, blademasters, and my own armored bear as my tanks, as needed. I have a nix, yes, but I prefer not to use it unless I have to. I don't pk, I don't tw... just help people in my faction and others around me.

People don't trust venos without hercs cause most are of the opinion that we aren't as good as others. Just like people descriminate against light armor and heavy armor venos (I"m guilty of that as well). Saying we're not as good as others.

Fact is, I surprise people all the time without a herc. I go into TT runs and people are stunned that I have no herc, yet I'm as strong and capable of pulling mobs/bosses as I can. You don't need a herc to tank EVERYTHING. As Antigone proved on our server, Hercs can't tank everything. There are world bosses that it can't tank. And what about those that debuff? Pets can't be purified... I prefer barbs and blademasters for that reason. You can purify them as needed. Yes I admit since I don't have a herc, I can't tank EVERYTHING, yet I tank things, like bosses for people, my nix itself can tank the 3 swamp bosses, as can my armored bear. My shaodu cub can tank Khewy at lower levels... I don't need a herc for things. I take pride in what I have. I have raised my shaodu up from level 20, my kowlin from level 60, and other pets I use from their starting levels. Its not easy, but it beats spending 20 million in coins or $200 in real life money to buy something that may or may not be better for me.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

way to go, girl! <applause>

im lv71, with three damn good lv71 tank pets, plus a kowlin who kills faster than the golems. i agree that the herc is vastly overrated....venos did a good job without them when the game began, and we still do a good job without the fat yellow pigs. i do fine in my part in FBs and TTs, when i am allowed to go, which freaking rarely now, since people are so stuck on the idea of having hercs in their group. if they want a second tank, why not get another barb?

its gotten to the point that its becoming pointless to be either a veno or a cleric....venos are only valued now if they have a yellow pig, and clerics are becoming replaced by genies....i wish neither was in the game now. its not as good as it was back when it started, i think

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would take your bet and raise you. I know a lvl 75ish veno who doesn't have a herc. Her pet bag is full and she does an AWESOME job. Matter of fact she is so good and skillful, in TT when one of her pets died before the mob had a chance to even hit her she had another pet in its place tanking.

Hercs are the be all and end all of venos. Yes they are SUPERheroes. But they are also dull. Not to mention ugly. I would take the veno I know with skill, experience and someone who is pleasant to be around over a veno with a herc ANY day of the week.

Herc=someone who had money to buy a uber tanker.

Veno without a herc= someone who has learned how to use their skills, their pets and their experience to work their character.

I for one do not think a veno without a herc is useless. Someone who knows how to play their character means more than someone who dont. PERIOD>with or without a herc.

tweakz

Amehlea - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am a lvl 73 veno with a fully decked out shaodu cub and i love my cub nothing will ever make me go ohh what a piece of junk....
I am up to the point where no one wants to party with me in fbs and suchs cause i don't have a ugly fat budah. if they only want a veno with herc to save on charms and repairs well guess what
make them pay you for your services. you payed a butt load for yur herc
more then theyr ll ever pay in repears I am sure
if all they want is venos with hercs hell let them buy you a herc is what i say cause i aint putting money in an ugly peice of fat budah buns lol.

It's not difficult to acquire a Herc without cash before level 73.

Though I feel Venomancers tend to be under appreciated in TT, they can also solo for most of their needs so they don't have to be push overs.

Refusing to get a Herc for a Venomancer is akin to a Barbarian refusing to equip decent armor, or a Cleric to skimp on weapon and spells. Would you want to do TT runs with a Barb that had more chance of dying because they didn't like the appearance of the much better armor (without back up tank of course)?

If they're using you to tank bosses, then demand a tanker's cut. People have tried suckering me into tanking before, and I reminded them that I was filling the role of DD or Lurer (which is what they called for). When I tanked 3 of 5 bosses, others wanted to give me a DD cut, but I wouldn't go for it. The faction rules stated "tanker", not "barbarian". I'm still asked to go to far more TT's than I want to (and I say nty most often).

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

*Yawns* Egotistical idiot. If you didn't want someone bumping the thread, you shouldn't have replied. Now you've got my interest in this stupid thread.

as if mods posting the words 'dont necro threads' isnt making it goto the top again too, its essentially the same thing. there was nothing new to the discussion added, it was just a rant against herc users. there was nothing egotistical about the post, so no need to be an ****, thanks have a good day.

let dead threads stay dead.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

b:shutupb:shutup

tweakz wrote: »

It's not difficult to acquire a Herc without cash before level 73.

Though I feel Venomancers tend to be under appreciated in TT, they can also solo for most of their needs so they don't have to be push overs.NOTE: here you didn't care to mention in reference WITH or WITHOUT herc here. Just veno's in general.

Refusing to get a Herc for a Venomancer is akin to a Barbarian refusing to equip decent armor, or a Cleric to skimp on weapon and spells.My husband is a lvl 46 barb still in lvl 20ish to low 30's gears. WHY? He chose to put a LOT of his points on vitality. He's got more HP than most barbs 10-15 levels ahead of him. And it shows in his skill. On my cleric I gimp in weapon because on my wizard all I ever did was steal aggro, I didn't want to do it with that character and certainly don't on my cleric. So I learned to not use the best weapon allows me to DD without pulling aggro. So there goes that thought right out the window. You do what is best for your class or your wallet (in or out of game).Doesn't matter your class, My wizard couldn't afford all TT arms, that doesn't make me less experienced or less of a DD. Would you want to do TT runs with a Barb that had more chance of dying because they didn't like the appearance of the much better armor (without back up tank of course)This isn't about the appearance of the Herc. Its about the fact that people are refusing to squad with venos with out them. Apparently there is a demand for venos with Hercs. I don't have a veno but if I did I'd gently ask the squad in question to donate to the get a HERC fund for myself. At 22 MILLION its one of the single most expensive things in this game. Sad thing is, its not even rare!

If they're using you to tank bosses, then demand a tanker's cut. People have tried suckering me into tanking before, and I reminded them that I was filling the role of DD or Lurer (which is what they called for). When I tanked 3 of 5 bosses, others wanted to give me a DD cut, but I wouldn't go for it. The faction rules stated "tanker", not "barbarian". I'm still asked to go to far more TT's than I want to (and I say nty most often).Oh so then you are admitting that as a barb you can be many things, but only what someone calls for? Last I knew a veno did not need a herc to pull or tank mobs. So they get to be *gasp* Puller, tanker, and DD all in one? Wait a minute, I think I just forgot your point!

BratFury - Heavens Tear

You say as you just broke one of the forum rules yourself in this post. I'm beginning to see why you are flamed so much, Pot, meet KETTLE.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

as if mods posting the words 'dont necro threads' isnt making it goto the top again too, its essentially the same thing. there was nothing new to the discussion added, it was just a rant against herc users. there was nothing egotistical about the post, so no need to be an ****, thanks have a good day.

let dead threads stay dead.

Nnoit - Dreamweaver

I'm a Veno without a Herc pet. o.o It doesn't really matter cause I'm a lower level, so I don't get scorned as much ^^; I just stick with the normal Magmite tank. XD
Besides the price for a Herc is ridiculous.

_River - Heavens Tear

ROFLMAO

I'm an **** for making a comment and observation about what you've said? Wow.. this world has really come to an end xD I can't even voice my opinion without getting flamed.

If you wanted this thread to die, you shouldn't have posted. That's all I'm saying ^^ So pull that stick out of your high and mighty **** and get yourself a life. Kthxbai

_River - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

as if mods posting the words 'dont necro threads' isnt making it goto the top again too, its essentially the same thing. there was nothing new to the discussion added, it was just a rant against herc users. there was nothing egotistical about the post, so no need to be an ****, thanks have a good day.

let dead threads stay dead.

Oh and btw... the Egotistical part was for the buddha following you. Get the picture?

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

and youre an idiot for not being able to detect sarcasm. she was making a joke about her 'bear having class,' so i made a joke about her calling herc a buddha, which does has a mass religious following all over asia. its one of those 'u got 1uped!' comments in a total joke form.

so in essence you are being an ****.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Who revived this?

Mod please lock/close this.

Thank you in advanceb:thanks

tweakz

Nnoit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm a Veno without a Herc pet. o.o It doesn't really matter cause I'm a lower level, so I don't get scorned as much ^^; I just stick with the normal Magmite tank. XD
Besides the price for a Herc is ridiculous.

Not really. Someone can put as much into their weapon as we put into Hercs, and as they level they may feel the need to replace it. Hercs level with us and don't need replacing.

At level 79 in just two days time, I managed to make more than half what I paid for the Herc (in game coin). -Seems cheap to me.

Magmites are way over rated. If you look at stats on Bosses like those in TT, or Elf FB19, you'll see that their m.atk is significantly higher than their p.atk which makes a Qingfu and and other pets much more ideal as a primary tank.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

but if you actually had experience youd know those bosses only use melee attacks, not magic. even at a ranged attack they will chase you to melee range and physically hit you.

magmite is the premier tank for non herc owners, sawfly is premier PVP pet.

BratFury - Heavens Tear

You're begging for the thread to die, or be locked but you still continue to post on it? No one would have a response if you'd quit responding!

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

but if you actually had experience youd know those bosses only use melee attacks, not magic. even at a ranged attack they will chase you to melee range and physically hit you.

magmite is the premier tank for non herc owners, sawfly is premier PVP pet.

_River - Heavens Tear

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're begging for the thread to die, or be locked but you still continue to post on it? No one would have a response if you'd quit responding!

ROFLMAO I've been trying to tell her that. But she don't listen. She just wants to make fun of me and thinks I actually care if she calls me an ****.


WHICH BTW, makes me laugh and smile at you Cause I enjoy being called that

And another BTW, this thread was revived because people have opinions on this subject. ^^ you don't like it? Don't read it, that simple

Armored bear and Shaodu cub tanks FTW. Sawfly and magmite tanks FTW. ^^

Edit: Better yet, allllllll pets aside from herc tanks FTW

_River - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Not really. Someone can put as much into their weapon as we put into Hercs, and as they level they may feel the need to replace it. Hercs level with us and don't need replacing.

At level 79 in just two days time, I managed to make more than half what I paid for the Herc (in game coin). -Seems cheap to me.

Magmites are way over rated. If you look at stats on Bosses like those in TT, or Elf FB19, you'll see that their m.atk is significantly higher than their p.atk which makes a Qingfu and and other pets much more ideal as a primary tank.

What you say is true, however, wouldn't it be safe to also say that, if we didn't want a herc, a tank pet of our choice, would level with us? Being as they are our tank pets we would want them to keep up with us. I know that my shaodu, armored bear, and kowlin have been leveling with me, as well as my other pets. So if the person is willing to put time and effort into raising a pet, there would be no need to spend the money for a herc, or replace it later on. Especially if you could farm Dragon Temple (highly unlikely) for the rare scrolls.

Its possible.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Herc=someone who had money to buy a uber tanker.

Veno without a herc= someone who has learned how to use their skills, their pets and their experience to work their character.

I see a lot of these sorts of posts.
Why do so many posters seem to think that Herc owners lack skills?

I bet the average herc owner plays better and knows a lot more abut the game than the average non herc owner.
In fact at high level, you have to wonder why a veno hasnt got a herc. What did they do with their money. Warning bells.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

I just read the OP post and I would say the Best tank in the game is a Barb or BM with two Clerics or one Archer assisting.Hercs are just overrated.

Darn I hate it when some resses a thread.

_River - Heavens Tear

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I see a lot of these sorts of posts.
Why do so many posters seem to think that Herc owners lack skills?

I bet the average herc owner plays better and knows a lot more abut the game than the average non herc owner.
In fact at high level, you have to wonder why a veno hasnt got a herc. What did they do with their money. Warning bells.

You do have a point, but when people don't want to have to rely on pets, like I know some venos do, they don't want a herc. They don't want to "own" the game so to speak. I've spoken with venos on HT server and they said they like to fight with their pets, not just have to heal them all the time. I have to agree with them.

Me personally, I spend my money on equipment, pets that I want, raising the pets, pet food for the lost loyalty in TT runs should my pet die when luring a boss, manufacturing, skills, helping my faction as needed, mats for wines since I'm not demon or sage I cannot get into heaven and hell to get the mats so I buy them from other players to farm fb89s for books, pages, refining, gems, etc.

If I have forgotten anything, let me know. As I'm sure I've just about summed it all up with this. oh and I recently bought my mystical tome, so no more Christmas blessing here.

If you have any questions about why higher level venos don't have hercs, and where our money goes, feel free to ask. Oh and I won't buy it with real money. So let's not go there ^^

Again, if you don't like reading the thread, DON'T read it! Simple as that.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've spoken with venos on HT server and they said they like to fight with their pets, not just have to heal them all the time.

best pdef/mdef, highest hp, high regen, reflect....less heals needed, maor ablity to cast attack b:thanks

pet to lure boss? learn genies :]
you loose money farming 89s, wouldnt happen with a herc
baught a mystical tome recently? +1 for venos with herc know the game better

_River - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

best pdef/mdef, highest hp, high regen, reflect....less heals needed, maor ablity to cast attack b:thanks

Mdef definitely not. Phoenix has the best mdef in the game. However, in instances where a phoenix cannot be used, possibly. However, its up to the veno to choose. Why do people say we NEED/HAVE to have one when those of us who choose not to don't? We DON'T NEED hercs, they are a luxary item just like the phoenixes. Its not a NEED its a WANT.

Besides, it has already been proven, even by Antigone, that hercs CANNOT tank EVERY boss. I have also witnessed it. A herc getting 3 shotted by a boss in TT. So they may be good for some, but why don't we just say it depends on the play styles, eh?

_River - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

best pdef/mdef, highest hp, high regen, reflect....less heals needed, maor ablity to cast attack b:thanks

pet to lure boss? learn genies :]
you loose money farming 89s, wouldnt happen with a herc
baught a mystical tome recently? +1 for venos with herc know the game better

Oh and I actually gain money from farming fb89s btw. Books, pages, etc, makes up for the mats I spend on wines. I don't need a herc for that.

I bought my mystical tomes because honestly, I don't have high level friends or faction mates who can go to rebirth for me. I'm not rich and everything like you Mosz. Don't tell me to learn the game when I already know what I'm doing and what I choose to do. If I don't want a herc, why is that your business?

The fact is that people shouldn't be biased or prejudiced against those of us who don't have hercs. We are JUST as capable as those with hercs.

As for genie skills, I know of it dumbass. Factor in that genies aren't just good for luring. I have heals and shields on my genie as well as other debuffs. I prefer to lure the old fashioned way.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Mdef definitely not. Phoenix has the best mdef in the game. However, in instances where a phoenix cannot be used, possibly.

Actually, the herc's base mdef is only medium-high. There are lots of pets with higher base mdef. Oddfoot, frog, cub, snow hare, antelope, carapest, most wolves, flying pig, etc.

Where the herc shines though is in hp. Its base hp is 31% higher than the nearest competitor (cub). So even with its lower mdef, the magical damage it can tank til dead is higher than the other pets. Cub comes closest and can take 80% the magical damage of the herc before dead.

But if you're spam healing your pet against an all-magic boss, then it's likely one of the better mdef pets with the herc's Protect skill (mdef buff) will do better. Simply because better mdef means less healing required.

_River - Heavens Tear

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, the herc's base mdef is only medium-high. There are lots of pets with higher base mdef. Oddfoot, frog, cub, snow hare, antelope, carapest, most wolves, flying pig, etc.

Where the herc shines though is in hp. Its base hp is 31% higher than the nearest competitor (cub). So even with its lower mdef, the magical damage it can tank til dead is higher than the other pets. Cub comes closest and can take 80% the magical damage of the herc before dead.

But if you're spam healing your pet against an all-magic boss, then it's likely one of the better mdef pets with the herc's Protect skill (mdef buff) will do better. Simply because better mdef means less healing required.

This is true, however, if the pet has tough, that suffices for those hard moments as well.

But I agree with you b:victory

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Said it before gonna say it again. Must have a Herc attitude = fail.
I love my veno friends just as they are, no cash shop pets required to do their job.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

_River - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've spoken with venos on HT server and they said they like to fight with their pets, not just have to heal them all the time. I have to agree with them.

So you have a normal pet because you don't want to heal all the time?
Riiight. *scratches head*
Hate to break it to you, but try any boss with a normal pet and you wont have time to do anything but heal.

since I'm not demon or sage I cannot get into heaven and hell to get the mats so I buy them from other players to farm fb89s for books, pages, refining, gems, etc.

More lol.
Good luck farming fb89 with a normal pet. I found it challenging enough in the 90's with a herc. But I suppose thats cos Im one of these evil herc owners who lack skill.
We all believe you.

Again, if you don't like reading the thread, DON'T read it! Simple as that.

Uhh, I dont recall saying that. Maybe that comment was directed to someone else?
Personally I find taking the **** out of clueless herc haters too much fun to pass up.

Eternalnub - Heavens Tear

hercules is for ppl who likes make money and play alone like me :P