Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Literature - Harshlands wrote: »

lol pve players seem to have this idea that their "skills" will carry them. But it's not really about skill alone. It's about skill + gear.

If you are skilled and a another skilled player outgears you...then you fail. That's how it is on pvp servers. Playing pve and being able to toggle pvp on/off has warped your brain if you think you can do without something like a nix. b:bye

Did you not read her post? She is probably better geared than you could possibly imagine, would probably be a pain in the **** to kill in PvP, and seems to understand what she is talking about infinitely better than you are able to understand what she posted. The only person her failing is you, Lit.

Prowler - Heavens Tear

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

However, my build does allow me to survive a lot more than your average Veno. I've put a lot of effort into my gear, as well, something not many Venos have to bother with. I need precise stats on my stuff, and I strive to obtain that, so I can do what I do better. I think at this point, I've pretty much refined everything I own as well, to give me a lot more HP on top of the Vit/Phys Res boosts I desire. Even my weapons are refined. And the one I've got now comes with +HP and Eva.

You're describing my build and gear almost exactly: +5 on all TT90 armor, +8 on weapon, 4.5k HP unbuffed, and stats fine-tuned through selective use of rings, belts and necklaces, for the specific DEX or STR points I need.

Point accepted: Clearly you know your stuff...

Gargantakong, however, remains a problem.

:-)

Prowler - Heavens Tear

Literature - Harshlands wrote: »

lol pve players seem to have this idea that their "skills" will carry them. But it's not really about skill alone. It's about skill + gear.

If you are skilled and a another skilled player outgears you...then you fail. That's how it is on pvp servers. Playing pve and being able to toggle pvp on/off has warped your brain if you think you can do without something like a nix. b:bye

Please allow me to demonstrate who has symptoms of brain warp:
Notice the server name next to our names on the forum?

If we chose to roll on PVE servers, evidently your pointless, and patently childish ranting about PVP has no relevance to us.

If I wanted PVP, I would perhaps have been on Harshlands, yes? So please learn to think before putting your foot in your mouth with such evidenced agility.


.

Literature - Harshlands

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Did you not read her post? She is probably better geared than you could possibly imagine, would probably be a pain in the **** to kill in PvP, and seems to understand what she is talking about infinitely better than you are able to understand what she posted. The only person her failing is you, Lit.

Amp + nix = death. Atleast to any LA/robe veno, archer, cleric, wiz.

Barbs and BM's are kinda iffy because I can't always outlast them as pure robe. b:quiet

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Literature - Harshlands wrote: »

Amp + nix = death. Atleast to any LA/robe veno, archer, cleric, wiz.

Barbs and BM's are kinda iffy because I can't always outlast them as pure robe. b:quiet

So what. You still failed to understand her post and point completely.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

speaking strictly from metagame, thats easy. but alas, the world does not work like that.
theres such thing as event food, charms, pots, genies, apothecary anti bleed pots, among plenty of tools to stop you from casting amp or letting your bird bleed.

lit you speak as if youre some all knowing skilled god. please take this ego of yours, and shove it deeply down the tightest **** of your choice.

Isala - Sanctuary

Literature - Harshlands wrote: »

Amp + nix = death. Atleast to any LA/robe veno, archer, cleric, wiz.

Hmm? I notice you say nothing in there about Fox Form. *waves paw*

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

you dont need to be in FF to use amp. extreme poison ftw.
think this thread's gone on long enough, its kinda derailed from original purpose to a 'lets bash lit's stupidity' thread

torcor

Literature this is what we think when we see you post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYr7hFjs3wo

Isala - Sanctuary

torcor wrote: »

Literature this is what we think when we see you post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYr7hFjs3wo

Not enough hands.b:chuckle

Kuschel - Lost City

Werefox is no longer a class.

We're now called Herc and Nix.

"I need a herc for HH2-3, PM me."



Thank god I have both nix and herc. I'd be a useless WF.

Mistimancer - Heavens Tear

I am level 68 Venom and my main pet is a Florafang level 68 as well...

Was killing immortal Pyro in Swamp earlier ( level 67 mobs) and could easily kill 4 at a time... I wear Arcane only and have no points in Vit, only some of my gear has + HP... so it was fun and I was proud

Then later tonight, we did my 20/20/20... my Florafang .. ok.. with lots of heals... tanked some of the mobs no problem ( Adawolf, captain etc...) sometimes.. it was close call... but.. it was fun

I don't wanna tank a boss as per .. when I chose this class.. I chose it for the ability to pull, and help with DD... as well as beeing able to solo and be relatively more "free" to have my eyes on my daughter while pet tank ( still caused me some death as per didn't notice pet going too low ROFL.. ) but.. it's my own death and I don't risk to kill somebody else 'cause I had to go AFK to catch my daughter or whatever as per I can solo almost everything ( other than bosses)

I know that Hercules would probably makes my life so much easier.. but what's the fun into that? It's fun to always live on the edge.. and if I die.. so what... I just rinse and repeat

My goal is not to be the top Venom on PWI.. Almost a year I play ( took a 3-4 month break)..and am only level 68... and I have a level 50 archer.. and a level 31 BM.... I have fun... I escape the stress of motherhood and I live my social life as per I cannot go out most of the time....
I experiment.. I have fun... and I help my friends

And if I cannot do a certain mob or boss... well.. I wait until somebody can help me.... even if I am many level behind on it I still can play and have fun.....

But to be ditched out of squad because I don't have an Herc... is not fair...

Happened to me 2 times.. in a 20/20/20.... and we had a barb and clerics..... my florafang run faster than a herc I think... I could have do the job.. np ... why ditch me???

ANyway... PWI is an awesome game... with glitch and nerfs... but all freaking game is like that.. including monthly paying ones.....believe me.. paid over 6 years for a game in the past...and the patches were more screwey than PWI... GMs and Customer service were awful....lag was awefull..... and loading was long between zones.... and peeps were complaning about unbalanced class.. and this and that.. and patati and patata and it was costing me 21$ per month ( 3 years ago) plus an expansion each 6 months ( another 30ish $$)...

CHEER TO PWI .. THE DEV TEAM.. THE GM... AND TO ALL MY FRIENDS

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

whats a WF? this is PWI, were venomancers, this isnt malaysia

Alphae - Lost City

I think the term "werefox" is much prettier, alas it was not meant to be, I am stuck with "veno" D=

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

i like yaojing more, but so as we have it, this isnt MY or china :P

Alphae - Lost City

b:sad

^5 at your sig, btw.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

yes it rather aggrivates me when people think that 'everyone has a right to say whatever they want' on this forum because 'its their right to be entitled to their opinion.' that doesnt mean we all care to see or hear it.

it seems as if people just give more a damn about their 'rights' than they do their civic duties. its sad when immigrants know more about your own country than you do :O.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

...and what the bleep has this to do with the thread topic? b:irritated just adding to your post count again? no one is interested in your party pooping, tear.

and Mistimancer, i agree...i've had the same problem. people tended to really diss you because of your choice of pet before the big baby boom of hercs recently-i used to get hasseled for a long time because i used wolves mostly, and cant stand the bug types (IRL allergic, so they kind of give me the creeps),so i didnt have an air pet till i got a foxwing. then, as i got higher level, i added the deer and my beloved kowlin, and used them a lot too. got dissed about that too. but why would anyone care? 99% of the time, we hunt alone anyway, so whose business is it what we choose for our grinding/quest pet? and its funny, but in several FBs i've been on, it was the herc who died, and my golem, kowlin and others who didnt need more than juicing up, even while assisiting with the boss battle. not bad for a 'wimpy' kowlin, i'd say, to keep going in an FB 59 boss battle. hang in there...hopefully sometime there will be some balance reached, and people will get over this current craze.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

yes it rather aggrivates me when people think that 'everyone has a right to say whatever they want' on this forum because 'its their right to be entitled to their opinion.' that doesnt mean we all care to see or hear it.

it seems as if people just give more a damn about their 'rights' than they do their civic duties. its sad when immigrants know more about your own country than you do :O.

Junon - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

yes it rather aggrivates me when people think that 'everyone has a right to say whatever they want' on this forum because 'its their right to be entitled to their opinion.' that doesnt mean we all care to see or hear it.

it seems as if people just give more a damn about their 'rights' than they do their civic duties. its sad when immigrants know more about your own country than you do :O.

A rubber band on the floor is probably enough to get you aggravated.

Alphae - Lost City

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...and what the bleep has this to do with the thread topic? b:irritated just adding to your post count again? no one is interested in your party pooping, tear.

Don't forget me, I'm party pooping too. b:cute

This thread has devolved far past the point of no return. *cue music*

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...and what the bleep has this to do with the thread topic? b:irritated just adding to your post count again? no one is interested in your party pooping, tear.

what does it even matter, this threads already been derailed.. usually when a thread goes past page 3 or 4, its because of flame wars and repeated opinions

prof

@op(i'm obviously not going to read 30 pages):

herc doesn't make wf useful, the pets skills do

i farmed dragon temple every week until i got my solid shell and excorcism scrolls, then i spent most of my gold making them level 5. the only thing i needed was reflect scroll and i couldn't see to get lucky enough for it. other than that, my bear had same defense as herc with more offense

its other 2 skills made a difference though: bashing and frighten

bash holds hate a lot better than ripping and biting ever could, and frighten makes the [whatever i'm fighting] do a considerably less amount of damage. good time to let off an amp/nuke, or both, w/e

Wynve - Dreamweaver

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, I saw a World Chat shout the other day, screaming for anyone who could help do a boss to come and assist with it. I, also needing the boss, volunteered my services, and was asked if I had a Herc, when I informed him that no, I did not, I was promptly ignored. This is not the only time I have a seen Venos without Hercs being treated like ****. Everywhere I look, I see people shouting for "Veno with Herc!" What gives? I know, it's the best tank in the entire game, I know that it's capable of doing pretty much 99% of the bosses, but still, why the hell would you ignore anyone trying to help, regardless of if they have Herc or not?

Would you do the same for the other classes? "Oh, look, a Wizard without full TT, YUCK! Let's leave him alone", or "Ew... a Non Tiger-Form barb, let's ignore the crappy tanker.", or "A cleric without Charm, Do not WANT."

The sad part is, I know a few people already are guilty of doing these things. What the bloody Hell, people? Just because we don't play the game the way you think we should play it suddenly means that we aren't worth your time? If you're so God damned good at this game, why the Hell did you ask for help in the first place? If someone volunteers to help you after you've asked for help, don't pick apart what they have, or don't have. You don't know a damn thing about how they play. Obviously, if they offered to help you, they're probably a decent person, and since they're not QQing and whining for help, they're probably a decent player. Hell, I've seen things done better by players that defied the standards than the ones that are exactly the same as everyone else.

It just disgusts me how some you are so wrapped up in the "Standards of PW" that you ignore those who don't fit the molds. Veno doesn't mean Herc. Clerics are not just your healing slaves. Barbs aren't just there to have the **** beat out of them and do very little damage.

And just FYI? I party with Charmless Clerics all the time. The ones who don't carry charms are usually good enough to carry the powders to make up for it.

But it seems like some people wouldn't even give them the chance. And, yeah. I am not happy about that. I'm probably going to get flamed for this post, but at this point, if I can get even one person to stop and think about how they play, it'll all be worth it.

AMEN!
This happens to me all the time! (not on the level three account, my main.)

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

wow why did you have to start this flame fest back up again

moridintaker

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

Venos without hercs are not useless, they're just LESS useful. Considering your situation, you needed some boss. What if the squad already had 5 people that needed the boss and no one was able to tank the boss. Adding another person that did not have the ability to tank (with the help of other squad members) will get no where. 6 people in a squad and no one able to take the boss, pretty useless imo.

Also, for rebirth, can you imagine having a charmless archer for DD? It totally depends on the situation, and the activity.

part of what you say is true. the situation does dictate the party you need to accomplish the job however your point of 5 people in a party and if the veno doesnt have a herc then you have 6 useless people should be expanded a bit it isnt the veno's fault you didnt plan ahead and get a tank now is it? and i want to see you effectively pull only one mob out of a crowd consistantly without the use of a veno..so give them thier due and learn the value of team work

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Veno does not need a Herc to be useful, or anything.
Who says other wise is a pahil i guess.

Darshan_Uet - Heavens Tear

prof wrote: »

@op(i'm obviously not going to read 30 pages):

herc doesn't make wf useful, the pets skills do

i farmed dragon temple every week until i got my solid shell and excorcism scrolls, then i spent most of my gold making them level 5. the only thing i needed was reflect scroll and i couldn't see to get lucky enough for it. other than that, my bear had same defense as herc with more offense

its other 2 skills made a difference though: bashing and frighten

bash holds hate a lot better than ripping and biting ever could, and frighten makes the [whatever i'm fighting] do a considerably less amount of damage. good time to let off an amp/nuke, or both, w/e

Amen. Power to those that work hard rather than those that whip out the Visa card. I'm a player that earns 75K per year, owns a home, 2 cars, a motorcycle and I could turn money into game coin and buy anything I want. But I won't, I prefer to farm and grind. IT IS A BADGE OF HONOR -- & that can't be bought!!!

Darshan_Uet - Heavens Tear

Nelae - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Veno does not need a Herc to be useful, or anything.
Who says other wise is a pahil i guess.

Veno's without Herc's UNITE!!! We are game savy. b:laugh

I_Love_Pets - Heavens Tear

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hybrid here. I feel your pain. But then again, we do things so nicely in certain situations. Fox Form in LA almost gives us as much defense as a Normal Form Barb. b:chuckle Not to mention that we aren't actually taking every single hit, due to our lovely Accuracy debuffing attack, right? Now, if you're HA, you probably blow me out of the water in sheer tankability.

Also, to all posters. I understand why it's prefered, and thank you for pointing out the major differences, and why it would be considered pointless to invite a Veno sans Herc to tank. I still don't quite think it's fair, but obviously, there are huge reasons as to why it is the way it is.

Also, I've dealt with similar stories to Warrenwolf's, about people wanting to overdo the Clerics. Long before I could take Gouf with Pet heals, I discovered that as long as I was careful about how I let my charm tick, I could, in fact, take him down, with a lovely combination of Bramble Hood and Fox. Of course, nobody is going to listen to a Veno say they can tank a boss like Gouf without a pet, right? So, the Big Bad BM struts his stuff and goes in after the boss. We had no cleric, and only me and the low veno that needed the quest. Well, of course, the BM proceeds to get pwned, and starts yelling about how we need a cleric, and how he's trying to get one, and we should wait for him to get back with a cleric, on and on and on about we need this, this, this and that. Meanwhile, I've been slugging away with the other Veno, and end up taking Gouf down right as the BM gets back. I laughed. Hard.

Then, there was the Slitt incident. I figured out how Slitt works, how to destroy him without dying, to the point where I could even solo him. I head to him to do my thing, and this Veno stops me, and asks if I can help her heal her pet, a Torgrin Brave. I know immediately, it's not going to work, and I try to tell her so, well... Long story short. I'm right. Pet drops instantly, other veno scatters. I inform her "Run. I got this." And proceed to beat the ever loving **** out of Slitt. Of course, by the time I was done, the skies above my head were filled with Wizards. Not clerics, but Wizards healing me to keep me alive. We all got a laugh out of that one. Of course, what made it even better is the squad I encountered when I went to help a Barb friend. They were armed to the teeth with Clerics etc. And they all made the mistake of staying in his AoE Manadrain. I, of course, having stepped back when they told me they only had room for my friend was beside myself with glee as I watched this huge party all complain about the manadrain.

I always found it funny, that a makeshift team of Wizards and Venos were more effective than the Clerics, Barb, BM, Wizard, Archer squad that came to destroy him.

It just kinda proves that you can have the "Optimum party" and still not be anywhere near as effective as a group of random people that comes togther. It's all about strategy in this game.

esp since i have done the same thing btw i am a arcane user veno and still do the same thing however i have a eva build and im hybrid so i dont get hit if i do get hit i dont die anyways since i have 3.2K hp not hp buffed with hp over 4K easy also i have enough phy def to take out slitt slither kimsa depending gour dependin if i do it right same as kimsa and i still have sockets open for stones and such im currently a lvl 77 veno i understand sure since i have hurc he is usful no doubt however i have found that the magmite is not the do -all either since my frog had in effect the same phy def almost the mag does and more mag def also if you dont know the reason my frog does is because i lvled him from lvl9 and my mums mag the same lvl didnt tank as well also i can tank rattus lord with my frog by myself btw the frog is lvl 66 and i had tanked him with a lvl 55 frog either way it is how you play the game rather then depending on others for support to help you youare right about that entirly and btw if any1 says a arcane veno cant survive against a 8-9x bm or barb think again i do pk people at that lvl as well and i dont die to often i have not pked in about a month since im not focusing on lvling a bit either way i do enjoy a good foxform fight from time to time it is fun i must say and debuffs FTW they are so much fun and bt5w people hate it lolz anyways peace yall k ima prolly go head into FC an for those who dont kno FC=frostcovered lands to kill some time with my trusty frog lolz he is very useful btw hehe anyways see ya k an i do agree that a veno and wizz squad can be more effective btw when put togeather then that barb +5cleric combo lmao i have seen that happen b4 to hehe well byes ima go back to the game now

Amehlea - Sanctuary

I am a lvl 73 veno with a fully decked out shaodu cub and i love my cub nothing will ever make me go ohh what a piece of junk....
I am up to the point where no one wants to party with me in fbs and suchs cause i don't have a ugly fat budah. if they only want a veno with herc to save on charms and repairs well guess what
make them pay you for your services. you payed a butt load for yur herc
more then theyr ll ever pay in repears I am sure
if all they want is venos with hercs hell let them buy you a herc is what i say cause i aint putting money in an ugly peice of fat budah buns lol.
Plus my Shaodu cub has class what do a fat yellow dude have?



I unite with the venos against Hercs!