In addition to the above post, another COST that no one seems to be mentioning is the additional linues required for barter to get all these new 70s. Yay more grind, in addition to losing previous rp.
I do like his idea of bartering old 60 version for the 70. that would be nice.
In addition to the above post, another COST that no one seems to be mentioning is the additional linues required for barter to get all these new 70s. Yay more grind, in addition to losing previous rp.
I do like his idea of bartering old 60 version for the 70. that would be nice.
And wards and marks, dont forget that. A greater potency is 100k. Speaking of which, whats with people sellin' those for over 100k when the NPCs never runs out?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
We were lead to believe that Arti gear would be BiS for a long time. If it wasn't said outright, it was implied by keeping original T1 and T2 gear BiS for 5 modules.
Now you're really reaching here.
You can't say that was intentional. Cryptic release plenty of new sets with new stats. To say the intent was to keep T1/T2 BiS is quite a stretch.
What about Black Ice? Draconic? Draconic Templar? A lot of those sets are still BiS for a lot of classes. The only absolutely clear cut case of "best" for a T1/T2 set is the HV for CW's. What about all the new PvP sets, too?
Even then, depending on what you wanted to do with your character, the set differed.
And even then...your artifact gear, even if you're feeding the old into the new is still going to be BiS. I showed you screen shots of the Elemental Orb at Epic, which is what happens when you transfer your Dragon Orb at Legendary.
Can you show me a more powerful Orb, besides the Legendary version?
It is NOT a better item for FREE, the level 60 items were made obsolete, and the transfer has a cost.
Saying it's free is overly simplifying things, things have value, and if the item i have lost it's value then that lost of value is the cost.
cost:
The 'free' is a loss of 60% of the RP invested into them, while true that you can 'trade' your weapon for another without additional cost, there is a loss in the process and it is a significant one.
Additionally, the value of an item can be viewed from a point of buying power, 'I have 100$ what i can buy with it ?' And in this example 'I have 4mil RP, what I can get with it?'.
not so best:
People compare the result vs live, this is not correct, the item should be compared to it's 'ranking' among it's fellow weapons and those are the level 70 items on preview.
Today's legendary artifact is BIS and has the highest base damage and highest stats, the next options are the Fallen dragon (VT) and Famorian (MC) sets (and those were BIS for about a year or even more).
The resulted artifact you will gain from the 'free' gift -> the level 48 artifact is worse compared to most stuff you get at level 70.
While I'm against all the endless whiner-y each mod about changes, and endless bashing there is no reason to sugar-coat what happens with the weapons (or artifact gear) while not the end of the world it is also not the greatest gift to the player base. Yes equipment becomes obsolete in MMOs and it's the way of life, but, having VT/MC sets last for about a year and they are much easier to make than the legendary artifact weapons that were much more expensive, harder to get and lasted only about a single mod is not expected nor is a good thing. The main argument for the artifact equipment was that while it is hard to refine it should be done over a long period of time and last for a long period of time, this argument was just proven invalid by this mod.
An ability to trade 1:1 those items for example, a vendor that will trade high rank weapon artifacts of level 50,55,60
to a 50,55,60 of the new elemental set (perhaps even with some AD or Campaign currency) would have been a good compromise. Or a regular loss of 20% -> RP transfer to 80% and a gain of 160% during double RP would have solved most of the issues with the lack of RP.
And yes, without the ability to feed and transfer the artifact the loss would have been not 60% but the whole 100%, It has not escaped me, the gripe is that that 60% (or 20% at double RP) loss is very significant unless RP suitable for artifact gear becomes much easier to get.
It is what it is.
another cost invoved here and no one seams to notice is the stat bonus we had buy Cube of Augmentation to unlock
i have a 396 bonus in my off hand and that cost me about 200,000 ad to get theat is now gone and i have to do it all over again
another cost invoved here and no one seams to notice is the stat bonus we had buy Cube of Augmentation to unlock
i have a 396 bonus in my off hand and that cost me about 200,000 ad to get theat is now gone and i have to do it all over again
Next time don't spend so much on cubes. Any value higher than 300 is good.
It is an interesting point, but I do still have a complaint. The problem for me is that they put the new icons on Tiamat. I'm sorry but that fight has become incredibly annoying. As a simple element of content, the fight can be an interesting challenge.. unfortunately whether you win or not has almost nothing to do with rising to a challenge.. instead it deals with dumb luck of whether your instance of 25 people ends up being about 50% freshly minted 10k weaklings. I won't use the term **** here, because that's not the problem. It's simply not possible for any 10k player to actually contribute, so they don't belong there. They show up because.. well what do they have to lose? Unfortunately that's not true for the rest of us, and they turn the fight into either a ruthless attempt to outwit them and exclude them.. or a roulette match regarding how many you get stuck with.
Since I haven't seen any plan to change the inclusion requirements for Tiamat, I'm pretty annoyed at this expansion tending toward "hey lets do that SUPER FUN thing again, cause really.. it wasn't so annoying the first time that I gave up".
Totally agree.Tiamat min req should have been changed long time ago.But instead of changin it they re makin us much more bounded to tiamat in order to improve our chars thats quite annoyin cos tiamat battle with 10k's is hell of a pain and useless.I cut my Tiamat runs loooong ago due to lack of min gs reqs now i see i need to do it again there s nothin good abt it..
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited March 2015
You can't say that was intentional.
What about Black Ice? Draconic? Draconic Templar? A lot of those sets are still BiS for a lot of classes. The only absolutely clear cut case of "best" for a T1/T2 set is the HV for CW's. What about all the new PvP sets, too?
Intent really isn't relevant. Only results are relevant.
For some things, for some classes, those later sets filled a niche, and compared to the old sets. But we didn't have to spend months of time and millions of AD, refining that gear and adding stats. An OH that buffs Storm Fury and regen (my original OH stat buffs), would not have been worth slotting. I saw the chance to buff Storm Spell, and Combat Advantage. I spent spent several hundred thousand AD to get those, in an economy where I can mostly only make 24K spendable AD per day, without stripping alts (which I also had to do).
That AD is gone. Even my alts are nearly naked. Unless mod 6 brings back valuable BoE drops, I won't be able to get those stats back. My play time is dropping soon.
We already talked about the Orb. If they just added levels to the OH/MH, I'd be fine with it. They could even make it a grind to unlock better than legendary, and quadruple the RP needed per level.
Next time don't spend
Best advice in the thread, though it's counter-productive to running a profitable business.
Next time don't spend so much on cubes. Any value higher than 300 is good.
are you insane 200k for a 396 is increadlby lucky as anyone can tell you and also it was done to a itam that ws suposed to be aronud for a long time NOT 3 MONTHS
i think this whole idea of new artifact gear is in verry bad form ita a slap in the face
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I spent spent several hundred thousand AD to get those, in an economy where I can mostly only make 24K spendable AD per day, without stripping alts (which I also had to do).
First, I assume you're referring to refining rough Astral Diamonds as your 24k/day maximum income. That should pretty much be the floor. You should be making much more than this. Five to ten minutes running the Dragon Heralds will give you enough coffers, blues and purples that you can easily make 10-20k AD if you actually sold it all on the AH. If you have too much RAD, sell the purples below salvage value, you'll get more actual AD in the long run. Blues still sell for 500-1500 depending on the slot, and you can get 1500+ AD for a single Dragon Coffer.
BUT, let's assume for some reason you just can't possible get more than 24k AD a day. Several hundred thousand AD is what, 500,000? Even at only 24k/day, that's only 21 days of playing. Is that really that much, considering you're making progress to BiS gear?
It is NOT a better item for FREE, the level 60 items were made obsolete, and the transfer has a cost.
Saying it's free is overly simplifying things, things have value, and if the item i have lost it's value then that lost of value is the cost.
cost:
The 'free' is a loss of 60% of the RP invested into them, while true that you can 'trade' your weapon for another without additional cost, there is a loss in the process and it is a significant one.
Additionally, the value of an item can be viewed from a point of buying power, 'I have 100$ what i can buy with it ?' And in this example 'I have 4mil RP, what I can get with it?'.
not so best:
People compare the result vs live, this is not correct, the item should be compared to it's 'ranking' among it's fellow weapons and those are the level 70 items on preview.
Today's legendary artifact is BIS and has the highest base damage and highest stats, the next options are the Fallen dragon (VT) and Famorian (MC) sets (and those were BIS for about a year or even more).
The resulted artifact you will gain from the 'free' gift -> the level 48 artifact is worse compared to most stuff you get at level 70.
While I'm against all the endless whiner-y each mod about changes, and endless bashing there is no reason to sugar-coat what happens with the weapons (or artifact gear) while not the end of the world it is also not the greatest gift to the player base.
So when Module 1 came out and the new formorian weapons came out, were we able to "trade" our old CN weapons to insta-level Weaponsmithing to lvl ~18 to cover 60% of the 'cost' of the new weapons? Nope.
What about when module 3 came out and offered BlackIce weapons that were better than Formorian (atleast for some classes in pvp) Did I get a 'refund' of AD I spend getting my formorian gear? Nope.
What about when Artifact MH came out module 4, could I trade either my BI weapon or Formorian for a "boost" to level that up?
NOPE.
Nearly every module my gear has changed.
<Module 1: Titan/Scappers/Reavers Edge (or CN)
Module 1: Same gear, new MH (Formorian)
Module 2: We actually got PVP gear and some had to farm Fallen Dragon weapons
module 3: BlackIce Gear+Weapons
Module 4: Artifact Weapon
Module 5: Artifact OH
MOdule 6: NEW artifact weapons
But hey atleast ONE of these "transitions" from 1 module to next allows us to take our PREVIOUS item and help boost us most of the way there! Which one is it? Oh, module 6.
Nooone is claiming that this is "greatest gift to the player base". ALL that is being said here is THIS specific issue is NOT the biggest issue of the module, I see it as a minor issue - considering now that RP is available through professions, if you HAVE orange you will, with a little bit of farming or paying, get to stay BIS.
NO other module let you "refund" your investment. I PAID to speed up weaponsmithing to get that formorian weapon. I dont recall how much, but I could have easily saved that $ for the next module and invested that instead into artifacts, or saved that for the NEXT module and gotten resources to speed up black ice shaping/farming or saved that for the NEXT module and used it on RP for the MH.
Anytime you have $100 and invest it into the game, it WILL become obsolete. The only exceptions are things like fashion or mounts - so far.....
Spend money on AD for teneborus enchants module 1? Well.... They got nerfed, I could have saved that $100 and bought something else in a future module.
Spend money on AD for an Emblem module 2? Well... NERFED.
Thats how ANY game is. Spending $100 on day 1 means nearly NOTHING 2 years into the game. Thats the ENTIRE POINT.
Allowing you a free swap to the new items defeats the ENTIRE purpose here. If you did that each and every module, there would not only be nothing to do, but there would be no way for a casual to catch up to a BIS player.
I am NOT an advocate of the RP system. I was hoping they would make items like Formorian and Fallen Dragon weapons ON PAR with the artifact gear as a way to phase them out, but they didnt. But people acting like this is a crime against humanity thats not even close either.
Now... What IS dumb is the massive AD cost for a new BIS character which such a SMALL portion consists of these new weapons or artifact items in general its a joke.
Going from your existing orange to a new Orange will cost you about the same (maybe even less) than going from 1 rank 10 to 1 rank 12...
Think about that. We have how many slots? NOt even including weapon/armor enchants and you want to complain about MAYBE MAYBE 1/20th of the cost for next module?
This thread shoould be deleted and the REAL thread discussing Rank 12s AND artifacts should be brought up.
Yeah you dont have to go get NEW artifacts, but you also CANT transfer them to alt characters and itll cost 6MILLION RP per artifact to level it up.... 6 MILLION. ONE artifact ALONE is MORE than the cost of ALL FOUR of your artifact items (if you already have orange).
So I dont consider this worth even discussing anymore. Just be glad that unbound RP is going to now be available for professions, I can only imagine all the profession bots will have a field day with this...
Atleast we dont have to start from scratch, now THAT would have been worth complaining about.
People spending 200k to get a stat upgraded? Please... You can spend 100k and 9 out of 10 people will have a stat over +350. Anything above that (aside from +400) wont even change the % on your character sheet so thats a moot point.
This is just a waste of time now. Complain about a real problem...
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
First, I assume you're referring to refining rough Astral Diamonds as your 24k/day maximum income. That should pretty much be the floor. You should be making much more than this. Five to ten minutes running the Dragon Heralds will give you enough coffers, blues and purples that you can easily make 10-20k AD if you actually sold it all on the AH. If you have too much RAD, sell the purples below salvage value, you'll get more actual AD in the long run. Blues still sell for 500-1500 depending on the slot, and you can get 1500+ AD for a single Dragon Coffer.
BUT, let's assume for some reason you just can't possible get more than 24k AD a day. Several hundred thousand AD is what, 500,000? Even at only 24k/day, that's only 21 days of playing. Is that really that much, considering you're making progress to BiS gear?
Not really.
I send purples to alts to salvage. I refine the blues. I trade my coffers for Linu's.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
BUT, let's assume for some reason you just can't possible get more than 24k AD a day. Several hundred thousand AD is what, 500,000?
In the first week or two of Mod 5 people were reporting that they were paying millions to unlock the 400 stat on the OH. That is a sizable loss right there. Silly but sizable.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
1. This thread has a topic, all my posts where about that topic, you have a problem with the topic post a thread.
2. For how long those mentioned items lasted? and what was the cost to gain them ?
PvE TR Swash from beta to mod5 BIS.
Famorian mod1 -until artifact weapons. The top price for the riser was 1mil. overall weapon cost 1.5 mil
VT - Riser cost was about 200k overall weapon cost 300k - 350k BIS from mod2
The cost is relative to the consumer, PvP sets were priced in glory, what PvPers have in abundance, and btw, there was a vnedor to swap one set for another at some point when tenacity was introduced.
So tell me what you are going to get now for 500k ? A peridot stack ?
"Allowing you a free swap to the new items defeats the ENTIRE purpose here. If you did that each and every module, there would not only be nothing to do, but there would be no way for a casual to catch up to a BIS player."
per garlaxx (?) posts it is not even done yet, there are more levels incoming...iirc
And anyway you have weapons with higher base damage, i will screenshot in 20 hours, have to recopy to preview.
"Going from your existing orange to a new Orange will cost you about the same (maybe even less) than going from 1 rank 10 to 1 rank 12"
To get from 48 to 60 you need about 2.2 mil RP in the form suitable for artifact gear ! not R4,R5 that droping left and right over the next mod.
For 10 to 12 enchant you need 1.6 mil RP that as i said dropping ;eft and right, even today with enough kessel runs you can get this type of RP.
Non gear Artifacts can be feed one to another with a gain, meaning you need 2x293k RP tp make level 59 artifacts afeeed them to another two and you got the 6.6mil to mythical, the artifacts are obtainable via glory, the RP at worst case by feeding hoard/feys, they worth 24k RP each during double RP.
Again Obtainable and not relevant to this thread.
Artifact gear is a massive cost and not only the enchants if you already have r10.
look how much a r4 stack cost, and how much a period stack cost.
"People spending 200k to get a stat upgraded? Please... You can spend 100k and 9 out of 10 people will have a stat over +350. Anything above that (aside from +400) wont even change the % on your character sheet so thats a moot point.
This is just a waste of time now. Complain about a real problem... "
Perhaps you should remember that this is a game, and the 'real' problems are not here. People offered opinion, other people offfered another, if you can't get you emotions in check or anything worthwhile[1] to post, perhaps save yourself the time...
"while not the end of the world" - Kinda clear that i do not consider it the end of the world.
But showing that it could have been much worse, and it could, no argument here, doesn't make this short lived expensive investment a good thing.
[1]not that my posts are a great contribution to the human race, but still...
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Ayroux
i would say. Rp is not the only cost on artifact. when you feed with the old one every thing putted on it is lost and you get a % only back from it. the item used for it have a cost, the seal have a cost. Among all item that involve RP, the artifact weapon item are by far the worst.
enchant are not bound so RP on it can be sell in a way. it never a complete lost.
normal artifact have a way to have a 100% back rp return when used as refining even more on double even
the worst on the top of that is problably the item that can be used to refine
without dragon enchant it practicaly impossible to refine any artifact equipment because if enchant are very common, peridot's category are not this much and only drop as quest reward or chest and artifact 'S RP are practically impossible to get (practicaly only drop at tiamat).
yes equipment have to evolve from mod to mod, but on opposite RP's system are here to be putted on a lvl that is requiring more than one mod for a normal player to get. and with artifact weapon's it become an impossible task. it not a matter of beeing BIS or not.
and not couting that it require the very same things that enchant and normal artifact
NWN is a game and i want it as a game, not as a second work or an impossible mission. if i would so, i would have stayed playing empire. Yes some people may want a 10 hour/ day reward. but basing game on that will only lead to it's end at some point, because having such time on a game is only a moment (student, no work, alone..) and it always come to an end.
So when Module 1 came out and the new formorian weapons came out, were we able to "trade" our old CN weapons to insta-level Weaponsmithing to lvl ~18 to cover 60% of the 'cost' of the new weapons? Nope.
What about when module 3 came out and offered BlackIce weapons that were better than Formorian (atleast for some classes in pvp) Did I get a 'refund' of AD I spend getting my formorian gear? Nope.
If they want to come out with "new" better weapons that don't require refining, then I'm all for it. To replace weapons that are less than 3 months old with new ones requiring RP all over again at a 60% loss is not ok.
The difference between ancient and the fallen/fomorian gear was very slight. The difference between the old and the new artifact gear/weapons and when you take into consideration the new level 70 gear is huge.
If your hope is that half the playerbase with legendary equipment leaves the game then yes this is a great idea. Maybe they need to merge the shards to make the server seem full. Oh wait, they did that already due to hemorrhaging players with their existing vision.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Can you post a screenshot or the stats of an Orb that's better than this at level 70?
I can't with the orb, the professions task do not have the correct elemental result (fallen elemental orb), not that i could find, But here is an example with GWF:
The 200 base damage worth much more than any slot-able enchant, the 42 is already comparable as it's ~2% but still way cheaper, and it has a higher item level than the artifact at orange. IMO, it's due the fact that artifact were not updated fully yet, and there will be more level to them up to mythical at some point.
The at-will bonus is what make it a consideration, without it there is no reason to go for the artifact at all.
And as i wrote last post, I can do the daggers in 20 hours when the artifact task completes on preview.
edit - the mythical or any upgrade is not on preview or anything only speculation, the "fact" came out wrong.
The difference between ancient and the fallen/fomorian gear was very slight. The difference between the old and the new artifact gear/weapons and when you take into consideration the new level 70 gear is huge.
Actually as many people have shown the difference between what you get when you add your existing lvl 60 one to the level 70 one, the difference between a ~lvl 50 NEW artifact weapon and its MAX version is VERY VERY small difference. The only REAL benefit is the extra slot that opens up which even if you put a rank 12 in that would be 1.5% more damage. (or 6% ARP for PVE considerations) but that also comes with a massive cost that frankly, when compared to the cost of upgrading your weapon, would OVER double the expense for such a small benefit.
The main point is the difference between a lvl 50 NEW arti-MH and its lvl 60 maxed version is very small. Almost to the point of not even worth spending AD on and instead you would be better spent to upgrade weapon/armor enchants.
Ayroux
i would say. Rp is not the only cost on artifact. when you feed with the old one every thing putted on it is lost and you get a % only back from it. the item used for it have a cost, the seal have a cost. Among all item that involve RP, the artifact weapon item are by far the worst.
enchant are not bound so RP on it can be sell in a way. it never a complete lost.
normal artifact have a way to have a 100% back rp return when used as refining even more on double even
the worst on the top of that is problably the item that can be used to refine
without dragon enchant it practicaly impossible to refine any artifact equipment because if enchant are very common, peridot's category are not this much and only drop as quest reward or chest and artifact 'S RP are practically impossible to get (practicaly only drop at tiamat).
yes equipment have to evolve from mod to mod, but on opposite RP's system are here to be putted on a lvl that is requiring more than one mod for a normal player to get. and with artifact weapon's it become an impossible task. it not a matter of beeing BIS or not.
Yes you will have materials each level and wards, again when you actually map those out, the item you get just for throwing in your old one is virtually free. Maybe 100k TOPS being spent. That’s not that much.
Sure enchants are not bound, but that was never the issue. In my opinion I think artifact equip should atleast be bount to account to let you swap around hwoever they are not. Its not any different than artifacts though.
“normal artifact have a way to have a 100% back rp return” – This is frankly not true. You cannot take a lvl 100 arti and use it on a new one for 100% back. Also this requires materials (to your first point).
ALSO this is a moot point because the NEW artifact system you don’t get ANY return… You start where you started now, and must spend 6 MILLION RP to get to the BIS…
So atleast with the artifact item they are not allowing you to stay level 60 and they NOW go to level 70. That would have BEEN WORSE! Then you would get NO “free upgrade” and you would be FORCED to pay and not only that the NEW player would be even that much more behind. Talk about making it MUCH MUCH worse for everyone (which BTW THIS is the point of the thread that everyone seems to be missing).
I am NOT saying I like the RP system. I am NOT saying its even fair ALL I am saying is I would even rather have NEW LVL 70 VERSIONS of artifacts RATHER than it going to a higher level.
Trading in for NEW lvl 70 versions IS the better system than adding levels. Its not even close! THIS is the point of the thread. Not to argue ideals. Ya ideally they would have done away with ALL artifact equipment. Ideally they would NOT have added a FORTH! Artifact slot. Ideally they would REMOVE the “double” enchant requirement for ranks 1-10 on enchants.
This isnt a thread about ideals its comparing TWO choices:
1) Adding levels (like they are doing with artifacts)
2) Adding a new item (like we have with arti-equipment)
I think the case is as clear as you can get that #2 IS better for the players. Now you may have some guy who spent 6M AD on getting his OH to +400 (I know a guy who did) will it suck? Ya. Does it suck spending 4.5Mil RP into a MH to have it only good for 3 months? Yup. I DID IT. I AM IN THE SAME BOAT. But is getting a new lvl 50 MH (once I refine my old into the new) better than having a new level I need to achieve of 70 on the OLD gear? ITS A LOT BETTER.
I can't with the orb, the professions task do not have the correct elemental result (fallen elemental orb), not that i could find, But here is an example with GWF:
The 200 base damage worth much more than any slot-able enchant, the 42 is already comparable as it's ~2% but still way cheaper, and it has a higher item level than the artifact at orange. IMO, it's due the fact that artifact were not updated fully yet, and there will be more level to them up to mythical at some point.
The at-will bonus is what make it a consideration, without it there is no reason to go for the artifact at all.
And as i wrote last post, I can do the daggers in 20 hours when the artifact task completes on preview.
Nice! See THIS is ideal IMO. I dont know if new artifact equip will go to Mythic or not. But IMO this is what it should be - a move AWAY from arti-equip being BIS. I hope it STAYS this way because now it makes those items much more of a trade-off than just ArtiEquip being BIS.
Sure enchants are not bound, but that was never the issue. In my opinion I think artifact equip should atleast be bount to account to let you swap around hwoever they are not. Its not any different than artifacts though.
“normal artifact have a way to have a 100% back rp return” – This is frankly not true. You cannot take a lvl 100 arti and use it on a new one for 100% back. Also this requires materials (to your first point).
.
you are right with the same kind of artifact it 400 % return in a X2 daily. yes on normal artifact you have way to get more RP return than what you putted on it. that the major difference with combat artifact. even with the X2 refine day, you still canno't get back.
How ever they putt the simple line like that, you have to pass time to get your f.. combat artifact like any othe requipment, then you have to refine it for a f.. long time and money and if by chance and time and money you endend before next mod, you will have to restart but the worst in that is because you have to refine the new one with old one, you canno't use the old one while upping the new one.
And for the new lvl 70 wait and see, it not in prod yet and let me bet that what you may find just actually will ended in the worst case when mod will goes in prod or in the mod 7.
What they made worst with all this mic-mac is probably that they break trust lot of player can have about invest in the game
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
That's great news about the craftable weapons for numerous reasons.
1) It's gets people running dungeons so they can get the offhand and/or the materials to craft/sell.
2) It gives people a nearly BiS option that doesn't involve refining, but still not cheap/easy to get
3) I think when you add in the special powers of the Artifact MH/OF, they're still BiS (but not by much)
4) It makes high level crafting professions useful again
Hopefully that blows away more of the "doom and gloom" clouds surrounding some people's minds about Module 6.
That's great news about the craftable weapons for numerous reasons.
1) It's gets people running dungeons so they can get the offhand and/or the materials to craft/sell.
2) It gives people a nearly BiS option that doesn't involve refining, but still not cheap/easy to get
3) I think when you add in the special powers of the Artifact MH/OF, they're still BiS (but not by much)
4) It makes high level crafting professions useful again
Hopefully that blows away more of the "doom and gloom" clouds surrounding some people's minds about Module 6.
5. it gives you chance to have "up-to-date" weapons until you refine your old into new on 2xRP weekend. That may happen whenever.
At least the UI for it isn't actively user-hostile.
for the ones with already legendary gear it will be cheaper to upgrade the new legendaries during a 2x so im quite happy, a bit better and cheaper for those who already worked hard.
however belts and necklance arent comparable to artifact ones.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
At least the UI for it isn't actively user-hostile.
Back when those Malabog/Dread Fragment weapons were best is slot, those pieces went for 500k to 1.5 million AD each. Times 3, and you're looking at a very expensive weapon to make.
It really depends on the drop rate, too. But don't expect those weapons to be easy just because they're crafted.
for the ones with already legendary gear it will be cheaper to upgrade the new legendaries during a 2x so im quite happy, a bit better and cheaper for those who already worked hard.
Very likely this. If you're already invested in an Artifact MH/OH set, it'll probably be cheaper and easier to just keep upgrading it.
Back when those Malabog/Dread Fragment weapons were best is slot, those pieces went for 500k to 1.5 million AD each. Times 3, and you're looking at a very expensive weapon to make.
It really depends on the drop rate, too. But don't expect those weapons to be easy just because they're crafted.
Again, as opposed to what? I'm sure someone can calculate a rough estimate of the AD equivalency exenditure that goes into feeding nevermind now actually upgrading artifacts, and the last I checked (approx. this Tuesday) the *current* going rate for Mala/Dread pieces wasn't exactly unreasonable.
Which reminds me, I should probably buy the full sets to have my bases covered while that lasts...
And there's also the not irrelevant detail that the crafting UI doesn't attempt to extinguish your soul, whereas the refining interface quickly drives a man to contemplate gnawing off an arm or two.
Again, as opposed to what? I'm sure someone can calculate a rough estimate of the AD equivalency exenditure that goes into feeding nevermind now actually upgrading artifacts, and the last I checked (approx. this Tuesday) the *current* going rate for Mala/Dread pieces wasn't exactly unreasonable.
Which reminds me, I should probably buy the full sets to have my bases covered while that lasts...
And there's also the not irrelevant detail that the crafting UI doesn't attempt to extinguish your soul, whereas the refining interface quickly drives a man to contemplate gnawing off an arm or two.
fragment are easily going to cost 500k-2kk (for three fragments) so for those with lv 60 artifact it will be cheaper and better stat wise to wait for the 2x and keep refining.
this easily means however that next purple item, mod 7 i mean, will be sure better than lv 70 refined artifact gear.
so i wont refinining and i wont probably bother with lv 25 crafting too.
Comments
I do like his idea of bartering old 60 version for the 70. that would be nice.
Cryptic Dev: "I have noting to offer but blood, sweat, toil and Tia's..."
And wards and marks, dont forget that. A greater potency is 100k. Speaking of which, whats with people sellin' those for over 100k when the NPCs never runs out?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Now you're really reaching here.
You can't say that was intentional. Cryptic release plenty of new sets with new stats. To say the intent was to keep T1/T2 BiS is quite a stretch.
What about Black Ice? Draconic? Draconic Templar? A lot of those sets are still BiS for a lot of classes. The only absolutely clear cut case of "best" for a T1/T2 set is the HV for CW's. What about all the new PvP sets, too?
Even then, depending on what you wanted to do with your character, the set differed.
And even then...your artifact gear, even if you're feeding the old into the new is still going to be BiS. I showed you screen shots of the Elemental Orb at Epic, which is what happens when you transfer your Dragon Orb at Legendary.
Can you show me a more powerful Orb, besides the Legendary version?
another cost invoved here and no one seams to notice is the stat bonus we had buy Cube of Augmentation to unlock
i have a 396 bonus in my off hand and that cost me about 200,000 ad to get theat is now gone and i have to do it all over again
Next time don't spend so much on cubes. Any value higher than 300 is good.
Totally agree.Tiamat min req should have been changed long time ago.But instead of changin it they re makin us much more bounded to tiamat in order to improve our chars thats quite annoyin cos tiamat battle with 10k's is hell of a pain and useless.I cut my Tiamat runs loooong ago due to lack of min gs reqs now i see i need to do it again there s nothin good abt it..
Intent really isn't relevant. Only results are relevant.
For some things, for some classes, those later sets filled a niche, and compared to the old sets. But we didn't have to spend months of time and millions of AD, refining that gear and adding stats. An OH that buffs Storm Fury and regen (my original OH stat buffs), would not have been worth slotting. I saw the chance to buff Storm Spell, and Combat Advantage. I spent spent several hundred thousand AD to get those, in an economy where I can mostly only make 24K spendable AD per day, without stripping alts (which I also had to do).
That AD is gone. Even my alts are nearly naked. Unless mod 6 brings back valuable BoE drops, I won't be able to get those stats back. My play time is dropping soon.
We already talked about the Orb. If they just added levels to the OH/MH, I'd be fine with it. They could even make it a grind to unlock better than legendary, and quadruple the RP needed per level.
Best advice in the thread, though it's counter-productive to running a profitable business.
are you insane 200k for a 396 is increadlby lucky as anyone can tell you and also it was done to a itam that ws suposed to be aronud for a long time NOT 3 MONTHS
i think this whole idea of new artifact gear is in verry bad form ita a slap in the face
First, I assume you're referring to refining rough Astral Diamonds as your 24k/day maximum income. That should pretty much be the floor. You should be making much more than this. Five to ten minutes running the Dragon Heralds will give you enough coffers, blues and purples that you can easily make 10-20k AD if you actually sold it all on the AH. If you have too much RAD, sell the purples below salvage value, you'll get more actual AD in the long run. Blues still sell for 500-1500 depending on the slot, and you can get 1500+ AD for a single Dragon Coffer.
BUT, let's assume for some reason you just can't possible get more than 24k AD a day. Several hundred thousand AD is what, 500,000? Even at only 24k/day, that's only 21 days of playing. Is that really that much, considering you're making progress to BiS gear?
Not really.
So when Module 1 came out and the new formorian weapons came out, were we able to "trade" our old CN weapons to insta-level Weaponsmithing to lvl ~18 to cover 60% of the 'cost' of the new weapons? Nope.
What about when module 3 came out and offered BlackIce weapons that were better than Formorian (atleast for some classes in pvp) Did I get a 'refund' of AD I spend getting my formorian gear? Nope.
What about when Artifact MH came out module 4, could I trade either my BI weapon or Formorian for a "boost" to level that up?
NOPE.
Nearly every module my gear has changed.
<Module 1: Titan/Scappers/Reavers Edge (or CN)
Module 1: Same gear, new MH (Formorian)
Module 2: We actually got PVP gear and some had to farm Fallen Dragon weapons
module 3: BlackIce Gear+Weapons
Module 4: Artifact Weapon
Module 5: Artifact OH
MOdule 6: NEW artifact weapons
But hey atleast ONE of these "transitions" from 1 module to next allows us to take our PREVIOUS item and help boost us most of the way there! Which one is it? Oh, module 6.
Nooone is claiming that this is "greatest gift to the player base". ALL that is being said here is THIS specific issue is NOT the biggest issue of the module, I see it as a minor issue - considering now that RP is available through professions, if you HAVE orange you will, with a little bit of farming or paying, get to stay BIS.
NO other module let you "refund" your investment. I PAID to speed up weaponsmithing to get that formorian weapon. I dont recall how much, but I could have easily saved that $ for the next module and invested that instead into artifacts, or saved that for the NEXT module and gotten resources to speed up black ice shaping/farming or saved that for the NEXT module and used it on RP for the MH.
Anytime you have $100 and invest it into the game, it WILL become obsolete. The only exceptions are things like fashion or mounts - so far.....
Spend money on AD for teneborus enchants module 1? Well.... They got nerfed, I could have saved that $100 and bought something else in a future module.
Spend money on AD for an Emblem module 2? Well... NERFED.
Thats how ANY game is. Spending $100 on day 1 means nearly NOTHING 2 years into the game. Thats the ENTIRE POINT.
Allowing you a free swap to the new items defeats the ENTIRE purpose here. If you did that each and every module, there would not only be nothing to do, but there would be no way for a casual to catch up to a BIS player.
I am NOT an advocate of the RP system. I was hoping they would make items like Formorian and Fallen Dragon weapons ON PAR with the artifact gear as a way to phase them out, but they didnt. But people acting like this is a crime against humanity thats not even close either.
Now... What IS dumb is the massive AD cost for a new BIS character which such a SMALL portion consists of these new weapons or artifact items in general its a joke.
Going from your existing orange to a new Orange will cost you about the same (maybe even less) than going from 1 rank 10 to 1 rank 12...
Think about that. We have how many slots? NOt even including weapon/armor enchants and you want to complain about MAYBE MAYBE 1/20th of the cost for next module?
This thread shoould be deleted and the REAL thread discussing Rank 12s AND artifacts should be brought up.
Yeah you dont have to go get NEW artifacts, but you also CANT transfer them to alt characters and itll cost 6MILLION RP per artifact to level it up.... 6 MILLION. ONE artifact ALONE is MORE than the cost of ALL FOUR of your artifact items (if you already have orange).
So I dont consider this worth even discussing anymore. Just be glad that unbound RP is going to now be available for professions, I can only imagine all the profession bots will have a field day with this...
Atleast we dont have to start from scratch, now THAT would have been worth complaining about.
People spending 200k to get a stat upgraded? Please... You can spend 100k and 9 out of 10 people will have a stat over +350. Anything above that (aside from +400) wont even change the % on your character sheet so thats a moot point.
This is just a waste of time now. Complain about a real problem...
I send purples to alts to salvage. I refine the blues. I trade my coffers for Linu's.
In the first week or two of Mod 5 people were reporting that they were paying millions to unlock the 400 stat on the OH. That is a sizable loss right there. Silly but sizable.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
1. This thread has a topic, all my posts where about that topic, you have a problem with the topic post a thread.
2. For how long those mentioned items lasted? and what was the cost to gain them ?
PvE TR Swash from beta to mod5 BIS.
Famorian mod1 -until artifact weapons. The top price for the riser was 1mil. overall weapon cost 1.5 mil
VT - Riser cost was about 200k overall weapon cost 300k - 350k BIS from mod2
The cost is relative to the consumer, PvP sets were priced in glory, what PvPers have in abundance, and btw, there was a vnedor to swap one set for another at some point when tenacity was introduced.
So tell me what you are going to get now for 500k ? A peridot stack ?
"Allowing you a free swap to the new items defeats the ENTIRE purpose here. If you did that each and every module, there would not only be nothing to do, but there would be no way for a casual to catch up to a BIS player."
per garlaxx (?) posts it is not even done yet, there are more levels incoming...iirc
And anyway you have weapons with higher base damage, i will screenshot in 20 hours, have to recopy to preview.
"Going from your existing orange to a new Orange will cost you about the same (maybe even less) than going from 1 rank 10 to 1 rank 12"
what?
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Artifact_weapon
To get from 48 to 60 you need about 2.2 mil RP in the form suitable for artifact gear ! not R4,R5 that droping left and right over the next mod.
For 10 to 12 enchant you need 1.6 mil RP that as i said dropping ;eft and right, even today with enough kessel runs you can get this type of RP.
Non gear Artifacts can be feed one to another with a gain, meaning you need 2x293k RP tp make level 59 artifacts afeeed them to another two and you got the 6.6mil to mythical, the artifacts are obtainable via glory, the RP at worst case by feeding hoard/feys, they worth 24k RP each during double RP.
Again Obtainable and not relevant to this thread.
Artifact gear is a massive cost and not only the enchants if you already have r10.
look how much a r4 stack cost, and how much a period stack cost.
"People spending 200k to get a stat upgraded? Please... You can spend 100k and 9 out of 10 people will have a stat over +350. Anything above that (aside from +400) wont even change the % on your character sheet so thats a moot point.
This is just a waste of time now. Complain about a real problem... "
Perhaps you should remember that this is a game, and the 'real' problems are not here. People offered opinion, other people offfered another, if you can't get you emotions in check or anything worthwhile[1] to post, perhaps save yourself the time...
"while not the end of the world" - Kinda clear that i do not consider it the end of the world.
But showing that it could have been much worse, and it could, no argument here, doesn't make this short lived expensive investment a good thing.
[1]not that my posts are a great contribution to the human race, but still...
Can you post a screenshot or the stats of an Orb that's better than this at level 70?
Ayroux
i would say. Rp is not the only cost on artifact. when you feed with the old one every thing putted on it is lost and you get a % only back from it. the item used for it have a cost, the seal have a cost. Among all item that involve RP, the artifact weapon item are by far the worst.
enchant are not bound so RP on it can be sell in a way. it never a complete lost.
normal artifact have a way to have a 100% back rp return when used as refining even more on double even
the worst on the top of that is problably the item that can be used to refine
without dragon enchant it practicaly impossible to refine any artifact equipment because if enchant are very common, peridot's category are not this much and only drop as quest reward or chest and artifact 'S RP are practically impossible to get (practicaly only drop at tiamat).
yes equipment have to evolve from mod to mod, but on opposite RP's system are here to be putted on a lvl that is requiring more than one mod for a normal player to get. and with artifact weapon's it become an impossible task. it not a matter of beeing BIS or not.
and not couting that it require the very same things that enchant and normal artifact
NWN is a game and i want it as a game, not as a second work or an impossible mission. if i would so, i would have stayed playing empire. Yes some people may want a 10 hour/ day reward. but basing game on that will only lead to it's end at some point, because having such time on a game is only a moment (student, no work, alone..) and it always come to an end.
If they want to come out with "new" better weapons that don't require refining, then I'm all for it. To replace weapons that are less than 3 months old with new ones requiring RP all over again at a 60% loss is not ok.
The difference between ancient and the fallen/fomorian gear was very slight. The difference between the old and the new artifact gear/weapons and when you take into consideration the new level 70 gear is huge.
If your hope is that half the playerbase with legendary equipment leaves the game then yes this is a great idea. Maybe they need to merge the shards to make the server seem full. Oh wait, they did that already due to hemorrhaging players with their existing vision.
I can't with the orb, the professions task do not have the correct elemental result (fallen elemental orb), not that i could find, But here is an example with GWF:
http://i.imgur.com/085ttUB.png
The 200 base damage worth much more than any slot-able enchant, the 42 is already comparable as it's ~2% but still way cheaper, and it has a higher item level than the artifact at orange. IMO, it's due the fact that artifact were not updated fully yet, and there will be more level to them up to mythical at some point.
The at-will bonus is what make it a consideration, without it there is no reason to go for the artifact at all.
And as i wrote last post, I can do the daggers in 20 hours when the artifact task completes on preview.
edit - the mythical or any upgrade is not on preview or anything only speculation, the "fact" came out wrong.
The main point is the difference between a lvl 50 NEW arti-MH and its lvl 60 maxed version is very small. Almost to the point of not even worth spending AD on and instead you would be better spent to upgrade weapon/armor enchants.
Yes you will have materials each level and wards, again when you actually map those out, the item you get just for throwing in your old one is virtually free. Maybe 100k TOPS being spent. That’s not that much.
Sure enchants are not bound, but that was never the issue. In my opinion I think artifact equip should atleast be bount to account to let you swap around hwoever they are not. Its not any different than artifacts though.
“normal artifact have a way to have a 100% back rp return” – This is frankly not true. You cannot take a lvl 100 arti and use it on a new one for 100% back. Also this requires materials (to your first point).
ALSO this is a moot point because the NEW artifact system you don’t get ANY return… You start where you started now, and must spend 6 MILLION RP to get to the BIS…
So atleast with the artifact item they are not allowing you to stay level 60 and they NOW go to level 70. That would have BEEN WORSE! Then you would get NO “free upgrade” and you would be FORCED to pay and not only that the NEW player would be even that much more behind. Talk about making it MUCH MUCH worse for everyone (which BTW THIS is the point of the thread that everyone seems to be missing).
I am NOT saying I like the RP system. I am NOT saying its even fair ALL I am saying is I would even rather have NEW LVL 70 VERSIONS of artifacts RATHER than it going to a higher level.
Trading in for NEW lvl 70 versions IS the better system than adding levels. Its not even close! THIS is the point of the thread. Not to argue ideals. Ya ideally they would have done away with ALL artifact equipment. Ideally they would NOT have added a FORTH! Artifact slot. Ideally they would REMOVE the “double” enchant requirement for ranks 1-10 on enchants.
This isnt a thread about ideals its comparing TWO choices:
1) Adding levels (like they are doing with artifacts)
2) Adding a new item (like we have with arti-equipment)
I think the case is as clear as you can get that #2 IS better for the players. Now you may have some guy who spent 6M AD on getting his OH to +400 (I know a guy who did) will it suck? Ya. Does it suck spending 4.5Mil RP into a MH to have it only good for 3 months? Yup. I DID IT. I AM IN THE SAME BOAT. But is getting a new lvl 50 MH (once I refine my old into the new) better than having a new level I need to achieve of 70 on the OLD gear? ITS A LOT BETTER.
Nice! See THIS is ideal IMO. I dont know if new artifact equip will go to Mythic or not. But IMO this is what it should be - a move AWAY from arti-equip being BIS. I hope it STAYS this way because now it makes those items much more of a trade-off than just ArtiEquip being BIS.
I hope they do this as well with neck/belt too
you are right with the same kind of artifact it 400 % return in a X2 daily. yes on normal artifact you have way to get more RP return than what you putted on it. that the major difference with combat artifact. even with the X2 refine day, you still canno't get back.
How ever they putt the simple line like that, you have to pass time to get your f.. combat artifact like any othe requipment, then you have to refine it for a f.. long time and money and if by chance and time and money you endend before next mod, you will have to restart but the worst in that is because you have to refine the new one with old one, you canno't use the old one while upping the new one.
And for the new lvl 70 wait and see, it not in prod yet and let me bet that what you may find just actually will ended in the worst case when mod will goes in prod or in the mod 7.
What they made worst with all this mic-mac is probably that they break trust lot of player can have about invest in the game
1) It's gets people running dungeons so they can get the offhand and/or the materials to craft/sell.
2) It gives people a nearly BiS option that doesn't involve refining, but still not cheap/easy to get
3) I think when you add in the special powers of the Artifact MH/OF, they're still BiS (but not by much)
4) It makes high level crafting professions useful again
Hopefully that blows away more of the "doom and gloom" clouds surrounding some people's minds about Module 6.
5. it gives you chance to have "up-to-date" weapons until you refine your old into new on 2xRP weekend. That may happen whenever.
Yeah... I'm really thinking that will be the way to go.
As opposed to what, refining artifacts?
At least the UI for it isn't actively user-hostile.
for the ones with already legendary gear it will be cheaper to upgrade the new legendaries during a 2x so im quite happy, a bit better and cheaper for those who already worked hard.
however belts and necklance arent comparable to artifact ones.
Back when those Malabog/Dread Fragment weapons were best is slot, those pieces went for 500k to 1.5 million AD each. Times 3, and you're looking at a very expensive weapon to make.
It really depends on the drop rate, too. But don't expect those weapons to be easy just because they're crafted.
Very likely this. If you're already invested in an Artifact MH/OH set, it'll probably be cheaper and easier to just keep upgrading it.
Again, as opposed to what? I'm sure someone can calculate a rough estimate of the AD equivalency exenditure that goes into feeding nevermind now actually upgrading artifacts, and the last I checked (approx. this Tuesday) the *current* going rate for Mala/Dread pieces wasn't exactly unreasonable.
Which reminds me, I should probably buy the full sets to have my bases covered while that lasts...
And there's also the not irrelevant detail that the crafting UI doesn't attempt to extinguish your soul, whereas the refining interface quickly drives a man to contemplate gnawing off an arm or two.
this easily means however that next purple item, mod 7 i mean, will be sure better than lv 70 refined artifact gear.
so i wont refinining and i wont probably bother with lv 25 crafting too.