During 2xRP event, I put a rank 1 belt into my purple belt and it crit.
If all artifacts can crit when fed into another artifact, then 80% return (on next 2x RP event) + chance to crit.
If you crit, then, correct me if I'm wrong, you will get more than 100% return.
My plan is to level professions to 25 in order to craft level 70 fomorian or Fallen dragon weapons.
By the time the next 2xRP event starts, I will be level 70 and should have obtained the new Elemental artifact gear and be ready to refine it.
This might actually be a good approach. The profession weapons are relatively cheap and a good temporary replacement.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited March 2015
Alot of you are missing the point.
ITs not that the new equipment is better, its that we are giving the SAME exact grind as we already have done.
When is the last mmo you have played that did this? I cant think of ONE, I know other mmos that REDID old content, to replay it after a few new expansions.
IN addition, many of us are just plum tired of doing artifact gear, if it WAS just left at 2 items it wouldn't be so bad, that way we could again play 2-3 toons at once.
Two separate polls would show exactly what the player-base feels like. Artifact, RP grind it out of control and Tiamat shouldn't have to be rerun AGAIN!
The argument that you can just skip it is invalid, when did you play a MMO to skip progression?
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
When is the last mmo you have played that did this? I cant think of ONE, I know other mmos that REDID old content, to replay it after a few new expansions.
World of Warcraft re-did a lot of their 40 man raids to be 10 and 25 man.
Also in Cataclysm, they "redid" the 1-60 content by updating the zones with a progression that represented the "new" world after Deathwing's release. The zones were "reused" but the quests, story and some of the environments were changed...
...just like what Cryptic is doing with some of the new zones for Module 6
IN addition, many of us are just plum tired of doing artifact gear, if it WAS just left at 2 items it wouldn't be so bad, that way we could again play 2-3 toons at once.
Which I'm not understanding. Why are people complaining that their Artifact Equipment is going to essentially be upgraded in Module 6?
It's not immediately obvious, and someone might initially think they're getting screwed over, when in fact they're being given MORE.
That's all I'm trying to point out here.
Because
1 - We just got the artifacts approximately 3 months ago, some of us just finishing them off less than a month ago when we were promised no new artifacts.
2 - RP doesn't drop anywhere close to enough to reasonably level these things up in the amount of time it took to deprecate the old ones.
3 - You get far less RP out of dropping your old weapon onto a new one. If it were 1 to 1 during non 2x RP that would be one thing. Not acceptable to get 40%.
i think your missing the main reason people are upset we spent so much time and resorses on the mod 5 artifact gear only to have it replaced by mod 6 stuff
yes we knew mod 6 stuff was better thats why when devs said you could run with mod 5 stuff and be competitive we laughed at them everyone knows they will have to repace all there artifact gear and with the refining system the way it is now thats going to take forever to get it done
also the whole grind of 100s of tiamat runs and that just sucks i would rather have new dungeons rather than being forced to run tiamat another 100 times
You don't want to do the refining grind again? So fine. Skip it. Ditch the artifact gear once Mod 6 rolls around. You don't NEED it for anything. It is there just to fool you into thinking it represents character progression. Get the new Fomorian/Fallen Dragon weapons, get the new Lvl 25 Jewelcrafting rings/neck/belt, and call it a day. Ditch the Dragon Hoard enchantments and farm unbound RP to sell to the suckers. You'll be rich and you won't have carpal tunnel.
Or, you can cry all day on the forums that you have buyer's remorse.
Edit: In fact I am doing this very thing with my HR. My HR has zero artifact gear and won't be getting any either.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
i think your missing the main reason people are upset we spent so much time and resorses on the mod 5 artifact gear only to have it replaced by mod 6 stuff
yes we knew mod 6 stuff was better thats why when devs said you could run with mod 5 stuff and be competitive we laughed at them everyone knows they will have to repace all there artifact gear and with the refining system the way it is now thats going to take forever to get it done
also the whole grind of 100s of tiamat runs and that just sucks i would rather have new dungeons rather than being forced to run tiamat another 100 times
Most poeple will not have the same resources to get to legendary and beyond again.
I wont even try, If I get a few purples, that will be it.
RP grind is boring , it was already apparent in mod 5 that they would and could replace artifact gear at any point (belts, main hands) so the poeple who think (or thought) that it would always be there to grow with you is wrong.
ITS simply a gate to time sink in, but its too heavily gated and it doesnt offer players flexibility (IN reality, you really need two sets of artifact gear, pve and pvp or should, but holy smackers, the time it would take for that) Screw it.
You don't want to do the refining grind again? So fine. Skip it. Ditch the artifact gear once Mod 6 rolls around. You don't NEED it for anything. It is there just to fool you into thinking it represents character progression. Get the new Fomorian/Fallen Dragon weapons, get the new Lvl 25 Jewelcrafting rings/neck/belt, and call it a day. Ditch the Dragon Hoard enchantments and farm unbound RP to sell to the suckers. You'll be rich and you won't have carpal tunnel.
Or, you can cry all day on the forums that you have buyer's remorse.
Edit: In fact I am doing this very thing with my HR. My HR has zero artifact gear and won't be getting any either.
lol and what are you gonig to do without them, to be competitve you MUST have the new gear and everyone know this. if you do not want to be competive then your right you dont need it but the rest of us will get it .
all we are asking is for the devs to realise how much this idea is hurting the game and hopefuly they will change the refining so that either we get 1 to 1 refining or remove the icd on hoard stones so we can acualy look forward to finishing them at some point
Nobody argued, that the new gear wont be better. The new gear is better, making the lvl 60 gear, at last for PvP, obsolete. Thats something devs promised, would not happen soon.
You can argue, that this is a PVE game or 2 month is not soon, but there was no exeption for PvP in the statement and IMO the next mod is as soon as it can get.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
You don't want to do the refining grind again? So fine. Skip it. Ditch the artifact gear once Mod 6 rolls around. You don't NEED it for anything. It is there just to fool you into thinking it represents character progression. Get the new Fomorian/Fallen Dragon weapons, get the new Lvl 25 Jewelcrafting rings/neck/belt, and call it a day. Ditch the Dragon Hoard enchantments and farm unbound RP to sell to the suckers. You'll be rich and you won't have carpal tunnel.
Or, you can cry all day on the forums that you have buyer's remorse.
Edit: In fact I am doing this very thing with my HR. My HR has zero artifact gear and won't be getting any either.
Again,
Somehow you miss the entire point of a feedback thread, to give feedback, sometimes thats negative feedback, sometimes its positive.
ITs tantamount to me saying, IF you dont wont to read feedback, stay out of the feedback forums.
It simply has no place.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Nobody argued, that the new gear wont be better. The new gear is better, making the lvl 60 gear, at last for PvP, obsolete. Thats something devs promised, would not happen soon.
lol and what are you gonig to do without them, to be competitve you MUST have the new gear and everyone know this. if you do not want to be competive then your right you dont need it but the rest of us will get it .
all we are asking is for the devs to realise how much this idea is hurting the game and hopefuly they will change the refining so that either we get 1 to 1 refining or remove the icd on hoard stones so we can acualy look forward to finishing them at some point
It's your choice. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use artifact gear.
I suppose if you want to be at the tippy-tippy-top of the PVP hierarchy then yes you will need 8xMythic items. But in that case, you are likely forking over some cash anyway.
But the vast majority of PVP in this game is between players who don't have BIS gear.
When I PVP'ed with my 13k-14k HR, the matches were full of players that either had no artifact gear at all, or if they did, it was at most purple quality. Mostly green and blue. Nobody had legendaries of any kind. And just like all matches, I won some and I lost some.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
World of Warcraft re-did a lot of their 40 man raids to be 10 and 25 man.
Also in Cataclysm, they "redid" the 1-60 content by updating the zones with a progression that represented the "new" world after Deathwing's release. The zones were "reused" but the quests, story and some of the environments were changed...
...just like what Cryptic is doing with some of the new zones for Module 6
but again, I just stated that , SURE Ive seen some reworks done, but there is NO rework here, its the SAME exact grind!
Make tiamat a 5 man encounter.. =P that I can find a legit group for and ID be happy at any time of the day.
There, we can all grind with people , we can all get through it fast and be done with it in a couple of weeks.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
And here's another picture to break down the changes for people:
(right click, view image for full size)
You have four scenarios.
Module 5: This is your Legendary weapon now. If you go into Module 6 with NO changes to Artifact Equipment (which is what some people seem to want), this is what it looks like.
Module 6: This is what you get for just logging into the game. Without doing a single thing, your Module 5 Artifact Weapon is more powerful than it was in Module 5. I believe this is necessary if it's going to stay relevant to the level 70 increase.
New Artifact: This is what you get for just buying the new weapon and dropping your old one into it. Again, substantially better than the old weapon, and far, far, far superior to the "un-upgraded" module 5 weaon.
Fully Refined: This is the new BiS. Which you don't need, but you can chase after. And as I've already pointed out, in a 2x RP weekend, refining your old into the new is going to get you 80% of the way back to BiS, which is pretty dang good. There's not a MMO in the world that let's you take your BiS stuff and then use it to get 80% of the way to having the next BiS after an update.
So those are the facts. Anyway you slice it, whether you chose to do nothing with your Artifact Equipment, or you chose to upgrade, your equipment is going to be better in every way when Module 6 launches.
Somehow you miss the entire point of a feedback thread, to give feedback, sometimes thats negative feedback, sometimes its positive.
ITs tantamount to me saying, IF you dont wont to read feedback, stay out of the feedback forums.
It simply has no place.
This isn't one of the official feedback threads. This is a discussion thread.
If the devs read any forum posts at all, it's going to be the feedback threads. They're not going to read every single thread in every single subforum. At least I hope they don't - otherwise they would have no time to actually develop the game!
I honestly think the best situation for people like yourself and others, who are just so thoroughly fed up with refining, is simply not to do it. In Mod 6 there is another progression path via the Elemental Fallen Dragon/Fomorian weapons that does not involve any refining.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
It's your choice. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use artifact gear.
I suppose if you want to be at the tippy-tippy-top of the PVP hierarchy then yes you will need 8xMythic items. But in that case, you are likely forking over some cash anyway. Or relying on a 'high-end' PVP guild that is able to obtain ADs via 'extra-curricular' means.
But the vast majority of PVP in this game is between players who don't have BIS gear.
When I PVP'ed with my 13k-14k HR, the matches were full of players that either had no artifact gear at all, or if they did, it was at most purple quality. Mostly green and blue. Nobody had legendaries of any kind. And just like all matches, I won some and I lost some.
Most queues take 15-20 mins to pop lately, I think what you are stating WAS true at one point and I even made those same arguments, lately, after 15 mins a queu pops, I get into a semi or partial premade on the other side and get smoked in ten seconds, looking at thier gear they have plenty of oranges to spread around.
It only takes one monster geared person on one side to destroy the other, Ive even seen one GWF do this. =P ..
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
This isn't one of the official feedback threads. This is a discussion thread.
If the devs read any forum posts at all, it's going to be the feedback threads. They're not going to read every single thread in every single subforum. At least I hope they don't - otherwise they would have no time to actually develop the game!
I honestly think the best situation for people like yourself and others, who are just so thoroughly fed up with refining, is simply not to do it. In Mod 6 there is another progression path via the Elemental Fallen Dragon/Fomorian weapons that does not involve any refining.
Frankly,
I dont even see much response in official threads.
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nedruodMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 31
Why are people complaining about having to run tiamat in module 6? if you don't want to do it in mod 6 then just farm the Linu favors now ,it isn't like we have anything else to do at the moment.
Because I don't want to do it now, or ever. Tiamat's "raid making" system is a roulette wheel. I like playing games where skill counts, and if not that, at least prior achievements. Relying on luck is just infuriating. That's not a fun game IMHO. I'm sure there are people who disagree (otherwise Las Vegas wouldn't be successful), but that's not what this game started at, and I'm going to quit if it continues down that path. Lockboxes and such are fine because they aren't on the "critical path". Tiamat is.
Fixing Tiamat isn't even all that hard. Let people enter as groups. Require every group to have an average GS of 16k (or "Item Level" equivalent). If they are worried that instances will end up with odd numbers.. like 22-25 because of groups, then for entries with less than 1 minute to go, shred the group if necessary (keep the collective GS requirement though).
If some 20k wants to bring one 10k friend.. no problem. If two 16k want to come together, no problem. If 5 20k's want to come together, no problem. But when everyone logs on their 10k alt and just shuffles in alone, this eliminating any chance I'll have a reasonable number of useful raid mates, well, that sucks and it should stop.
Another suggestion is that just take the artifacts out of the double RP weekend and double their return (so that they give 80% all the time, double RP or not). Suggesting that someone should get a new artifact.. then just let it sit in inventory waiting for double RP is a bad game experience.
Most queues take 15-20 mins to pop lately, I think what you are stating WAS true at one point and I even made those same arguments, lately, after 15 mins a queu pops, I get into a semi or partial premade on the other side and get smoked in ten seconds, looking at thier gear they have plenty of oranges to spread around.
It only takes one monster geared person on one side to destroy the other, Ive even seen one GWF do this. =P ..
No, what I described all occurred this mod.
And yes my poor 13k HR was sometimes put into a match against a full premade. That was very rare. Over 95% of the time, it was against other similarly-geared players. My observation is that the matchmaking system (a) DOES depend on GS, despite the protestations of the devs, and (b) mostly works for the low- to mid-range players. My 20k CW faces a lot more unbalanced matches than my 13k HR ever does, even though my CW has been PVPing way less than my HR.
But that is a separate argument. My point is that unless you are going to want to compete at the very high end of PVP, artifact gear is a luxury not a requirement.
I dont even see much response in official threads.
I agree, they don't respond much.
But they do listen, I notice this when they subtly incorporate suggestions into their plans. They just seemingly don't tell the players that they are doing it in response to player feedback.
For instance, in mod4, the dragons had fixed timers, which I believe was in direct response to all the complaints about the random timers on the mod3 HE's.
Because I don't want to do it now, or ever. Tiamat's "raid making" system is a roulette wheel. I like playing games where skill counts, and if not that, at least prior achievements. Relying on luck is just infuriating. That's not a fun game IMHO. I'm sure there are people who disagree (otherwise Las Vegas wouldn't be successful), but that's not what this game started at, and I'm going to quit if it continues down that path. Lockboxes and such are fine because they aren't on the "critical path". Tiamat is.
Fixing Tiamat isn't even all that hard. Let people enter as groups. Require every group to have an average GS of 16k (or "Item Level" equivalent). If they are worried that instances will end up with odd numbers.. like 22-25 because of groups, then for entries with less than 1 minute to go, shred the group if necessary (keep the collective GS requirement though).
If some 20k wants to bring one 10k friend.. no problem. If two 16k want to come together, no problem. If 5 20k's want to come together, no problem. But when everyone logs on their 10k alt and just shuffles in alone, this eliminating any chance I'll have a reasonable number of useful raid mates, well, that sucks and it should stop.
Another suggestion is that just take the artifacts out of the double RP weekend and double their return (so that they give 80% all the time, double RP or not). Suggesting that someone should get a new artifact.. then just let it sit in inventory waiting for double RP is a bad game experience.
They likely aren't going to make major changes to Tiamat at this point. They previously said that they aren't going to put Tiamat on a queue because (reading between the lines here) that if they did, all the top players would all queue together, and all of the lesser-geared players would consistently always fail the raid.
So *by design*, the strong players are supposed to carry the weak players to victory.
the only thing im asking for is either a 1 to 1 refining old artifacts to new or remove the icd of the hoard stones so we can acualy finish the artifacts at some point and play the new content if there is any
i have no real isue with the new stuff (i dont like to regrind tiamat again) but its the refining i hate its slow akward and now that the refining stones are so hard to find it takes forever most of havent even finished mod 5 gear yet
i hate tiamt but love dungeons and would love to do some new ones not the same old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> again
right now all we do is farm tiamat and that all we can do cause it takes forever to get enought linus to get all the gear and boons there is no time to do the rest
Changes are seen as "bad" for players who chase after "BiS" status.
For players who just do not care about "BiS" and just enjoy every opportunity to "upgrade" their toon, it's not a big deal.
Real problem is, players should be given more exciting and fun ways to play. Not new stuff to farm. That's the cheap way of doing things.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
Good, so it looks like we're all in agreement.
The new Artifact equipment is actually GOOD for players. But what people DON'T like are:
A) Not being able to queue with friends in Tiamat/Having to regrind Tiamat The actual refinement process isn't fun
C) PvP still has big balance issues
So those are all separate issues, which I agree with.
A) My biggest disapointment in module 5 was not being able to reliably queue with guildmates in Tiamat. That was a huge bummer. And I'm really hoping there's a new part of the content we can do to get the new Artifact stuff, versus grinding Tiamat more.
Again, I've said it over and over. I agree. I suggested a new system using Experience as an RP currency, to reward players for playing the game.
C) PvP is, unfortunately, a pretty hot mess all over the place right now...where to start, right?
Anyway, the big takeaway I want people to have here is that the new Artifact gear is going to help them, not hurt them. If people are quitting because they think Module 6 is going to make all that work they put into their current gear worthless, they're wrong.
The new Artifact equipment is actually GOOD for players. But what people DON'T like are:
A) Not being able to queue with friends in Tiamat/Having to regrind Tiamat The actual refinement process isn't fun
C) PvP still has big balance issues
So those are all separate issues, which I agree with.
A) My biggest disapointment in module 5 was not being able to reliably queue with guildmates in Tiamat. That was a huge bummer. And I'm really hoping there's a new part of the content we can do to get the new Artifact stuff, versus grinding Tiamat more.
Again, I've said it over and over. I agree. I suggested a new system using Experience as an RP currency, to reward players for playing the game.
C) PvP is, unfortunately, a pretty hot mess all over the place right now...where to start, right?
Anyway, the big takeaway I want people to have here is that the new Artifact gear is going to help them, not hurt them. If people are quitting because they think Module 6 is going to make all that work they put into their current gear worthless, they're wrong.
Anyway, the big takeaway I want people to have here is that the new Artifact gear is going to help them, not hurt them. If people are quitting because they think Module 6 is going to make all that work they put into their current gear worthless, they're wrong.
May I kindly ask you to empirically prove that statement?
I read it somewhere along the line and one of the WTF posts contained a link, skipped for it, but did not find it, sorry. I will post it, when I come across it again.
I found the following in a CM statement:
'And again, it was never promised that existing artifacts would remain BiS; rather, stated that they
would not be rendered obsolete and an upgrade would be necessary. It's not necessary to upgrade
your arti to 70 to complete any content in mod 6.'
Either half of the community and some CMs are delusional about the Dev comment, or it is out there somewhere.
The new Artifact equipment is actually GOOD for players. But what people DON'T like are:
A) Not being able to queue with friends in Tiamat/Having to regrind Tiamat The actual refinement process isn't fun
C) PvP still has big balance issues
So those are all separate issues, which I agree with.
A) My biggest disapointment in module 5 was not being able to reliably queue with guildmates in Tiamat. That was a huge bummer. And I'm really hoping there's a new part of the content we can do to get the new Artifact stuff, versus grinding Tiamat more.
Again, I've said it over and over. I agree. I suggested a new system using Experience as an RP currency, to reward players for playing the game.
C) PvP is, unfortunately, a pretty hot mess all over the place right now...where to start, right?
Anyway, the big takeaway I want people to have here is that the new Artifact gear is going to help them, not hurt them. If people are quitting because they think Module 6 is going to make all that work they put into their current gear worthless, they're wrong.
That's the big one.
You ditched main point
- people don't want to run same grind again! People don't want their effort to be wasted.
No one wants to run Tiamat again. Grind RP again. Wait for no planned 2xRP again. Deal with bugs in tiamat / queue again. Buy those cubes to unlock effects again.
To be dropped from level of player that never ever spend a moment to run tiamat or grind RP again. People hate their effort - time and money wasted again.
So if you do care to sum - sum all not just what you want to hear really.
Really this all sound like - "hey this is your new shiny car for 10k$. But you build it yourself first so it can drive and then play with it . Ok you got it. Well this is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now.WE have faster one. Give me your old one for 20% (not 80 as double RP combo) and build it yourslef again so it can drive... and repeat again or stay slow in your old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>"
Comments
This might actually be a good approach. The profession weapons are relatively cheap and a good temporary replacement.
WTB Class Reroll please
ITs not that the new equipment is better, its that we are giving the SAME exact grind as we already have done.
When is the last mmo you have played that did this? I cant think of ONE, I know other mmos that REDID old content, to replay it after a few new expansions.
IN addition, many of us are just plum tired of doing artifact gear, if it WAS just left at 2 items it wouldn't be so bad, that way we could again play 2-3 toons at once.
Two separate polls would show exactly what the player-base feels like. Artifact, RP grind it out of control and Tiamat shouldn't have to be rerun AGAIN!
The argument that you can just skip it is invalid, when did you play a MMO to skip progression?
World of Warcraft re-did a lot of their 40 man raids to be 10 and 25 man.
Also in Cataclysm, they "redid" the 1-60 content by updating the zones with a progression that represented the "new" world after Deathwing's release. The zones were "reused" but the quests, story and some of the environments were changed...
...just like what Cryptic is doing with some of the new zones for Module 6
Then ditch the artifact gear.
New Fomorian/Fallen Dragon gear means that you can skip artifact gear entirely and never have to do any more refining ever again.
Artifact gear is and has always been one of many progression paths, not the *only* one.
Because
1 - We just got the artifacts approximately 3 months ago, some of us just finishing them off less than a month ago when we were promised no new artifacts.
2 - RP doesn't drop anywhere close to enough to reasonably level these things up in the amount of time it took to deprecate the old ones.
3 - You get far less RP out of dropping your old weapon onto a new one. If it were 1 to 1 during non 2x RP that would be one thing. Not acceptable to get 40%.
yes we knew mod 6 stuff was better thats why when devs said you could run with mod 5 stuff and be competitive we laughed at them everyone knows they will have to repace all there artifact gear and with the refining system the way it is now thats going to take forever to get it done
also the whole grind of 100s of tiamat runs and that just sucks i would rather have new dungeons rather than being forced to run tiamat another 100 times
Or, you can cry all day on the forums that you have buyer's remorse.
Edit: In fact I am doing this very thing with my HR. My HR has zero artifact gear and won't be getting any either.
Most poeple will not have the same resources to get to legendary and beyond again.
I wont even try, If I get a few purples, that will be it.
RP grind is boring , it was already apparent in mod 5 that they would and could replace artifact gear at any point (belts, main hands) so the poeple who think (or thought) that it would always be there to grow with you is wrong.
ITS simply a gate to time sink in, but its too heavily gated and it doesnt offer players flexibility (IN reality, you really need two sets of artifact gear, pve and pvp or should, but holy smackers, the time it would take for that) Screw it.
lol and what are you gonig to do without them, to be competitve you MUST have the new gear and everyone know this. if you do not want to be competive then your right you dont need it but the rest of us will get it .
all we are asking is for the devs to realise how much this idea is hurting the game and hopefuly they will change the refining so that either we get 1 to 1 refining or remove the icd on hoard stones so we can acualy look forward to finishing them at some point
You can argue, that this is a PVE game or 2 month is not soon, but there was no exeption for PvP in the statement and IMO the next mod is as soon as it can get.
Again,
Somehow you miss the entire point of a feedback thread, to give feedback, sometimes thats negative feedback, sometimes its positive.
ITs tantamount to me saying, IF you dont wont to read feedback, stay out of the feedback forums.
It simply has no place.
Can you link to that Dev post?
It's your choice. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use artifact gear.
I suppose if you want to be at the tippy-tippy-top of the PVP hierarchy then yes you will need 8xMythic items. But in that case, you are likely forking over some cash anyway.
But the vast majority of PVP in this game is between players who don't have BIS gear.
When I PVP'ed with my 13k-14k HR, the matches were full of players that either had no artifact gear at all, or if they did, it was at most purple quality. Mostly green and blue. Nobody had legendaries of any kind. And just like all matches, I won some and I lost some.
but again, I just stated that , SURE Ive seen some reworks done, but there is NO rework here, its the SAME exact grind!
Make tiamat a 5 man encounter.. =P that I can find a legit group for and ID be happy at any time of the day.
There, we can all grind with people , we can all get through it fast and be done with it in a couple of weeks.
(right click, view image for full size)
You have four scenarios.
Module 5: This is your Legendary weapon now. If you go into Module 6 with NO changes to Artifact Equipment (which is what some people seem to want), this is what it looks like.
Module 6: This is what you get for just logging into the game. Without doing a single thing, your Module 5 Artifact Weapon is more powerful than it was in Module 5. I believe this is necessary if it's going to stay relevant to the level 70 increase.
New Artifact: This is what you get for just buying the new weapon and dropping your old one into it. Again, substantially better than the old weapon, and far, far, far superior to the "un-upgraded" module 5 weaon.
Fully Refined: This is the new BiS. Which you don't need, but you can chase after. And as I've already pointed out, in a 2x RP weekend, refining your old into the new is going to get you 80% of the way back to BiS, which is pretty dang good. There's not a MMO in the world that let's you take your BiS stuff and then use it to get 80% of the way to having the next BiS after an update.
So those are the facts. Anyway you slice it, whether you chose to do nothing with your Artifact Equipment, or you chose to upgrade, your equipment is going to be better in every way when Module 6 launches.
This isn't one of the official feedback threads. This is a discussion thread.
If the devs read any forum posts at all, it's going to be the feedback threads. They're not going to read every single thread in every single subforum. At least I hope they don't - otherwise they would have no time to actually develop the game!
I honestly think the best situation for people like yourself and others, who are just so thoroughly fed up with refining, is simply not to do it. In Mod 6 there is another progression path via the Elemental Fallen Dragon/Fomorian weapons that does not involve any refining.
Most queues take 15-20 mins to pop lately, I think what you are stating WAS true at one point and I even made those same arguments, lately, after 15 mins a queu pops, I get into a semi or partial premade on the other side and get smoked in ten seconds, looking at thier gear they have plenty of oranges to spread around.
It only takes one monster geared person on one side to destroy the other, Ive even seen one GWF do this. =P ..
Frankly,
I dont even see much response in official threads.
Because I don't want to do it now, or ever. Tiamat's "raid making" system is a roulette wheel. I like playing games where skill counts, and if not that, at least prior achievements. Relying on luck is just infuriating. That's not a fun game IMHO. I'm sure there are people who disagree (otherwise Las Vegas wouldn't be successful), but that's not what this game started at, and I'm going to quit if it continues down that path. Lockboxes and such are fine because they aren't on the "critical path". Tiamat is.
Fixing Tiamat isn't even all that hard. Let people enter as groups. Require every group to have an average GS of 16k (or "Item Level" equivalent). If they are worried that instances will end up with odd numbers.. like 22-25 because of groups, then for entries with less than 1 minute to go, shred the group if necessary (keep the collective GS requirement though).
If some 20k wants to bring one 10k friend.. no problem. If two 16k want to come together, no problem. If 5 20k's want to come together, no problem. But when everyone logs on their 10k alt and just shuffles in alone, this eliminating any chance I'll have a reasonable number of useful raid mates, well, that sucks and it should stop.
Another suggestion is that just take the artifacts out of the double RP weekend and double their return (so that they give 80% all the time, double RP or not). Suggesting that someone should get a new artifact.. then just let it sit in inventory waiting for double RP is a bad game experience.
No, what I described all occurred this mod.
And yes my poor 13k HR was sometimes put into a match against a full premade. That was very rare. Over 95% of the time, it was against other similarly-geared players. My observation is that the matchmaking system (a) DOES depend on GS, despite the protestations of the devs, and (b) mostly works for the low- to mid-range players. My 20k CW faces a lot more unbalanced matches than my 13k HR ever does, even though my CW has been PVPing way less than my HR.
But that is a separate argument. My point is that unless you are going to want to compete at the very high end of PVP, artifact gear is a luxury not a requirement.
I agree, they don't respond much.
But they do listen, I notice this when they subtly incorporate suggestions into their plans. They just seemingly don't tell the players that they are doing it in response to player feedback.
For instance, in mod4, the dragons had fixed timers, which I believe was in direct response to all the complaints about the random timers on the mod3 HE's.
They likely aren't going to make major changes to Tiamat at this point. They previously said that they aren't going to put Tiamat on a queue because (reading between the lines here) that if they did, all the top players would all queue together, and all of the lesser-geared players would consistently always fail the raid.
So *by design*, the strong players are supposed to carry the weak players to victory.
i have no real isue with the new stuff (i dont like to regrind tiamat again) but its the refining i hate its slow akward and now that the refining stones are so hard to find it takes forever most of havent even finished mod 5 gear yet
i hate tiamt but love dungeons and would love to do some new ones not the same old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> again
right now all we do is farm tiamat and that all we can do cause it takes forever to get enought linus to get all the gear and boons there is no time to do the rest
For players who just do not care about "BiS" and just enjoy every opportunity to "upgrade" their toon, it's not a big deal.
Real problem is, players should be given more exciting and fun ways to play. Not new stuff to farm. That's the cheap way of doing things.
The new Artifact equipment is actually GOOD for players. But what people DON'T like are:
A) Not being able to queue with friends in Tiamat/Having to regrind Tiamat
C) PvP still has big balance issues
So those are all separate issues, which I agree with.
A) My biggest disapointment in module 5 was not being able to reliably queue with guildmates in Tiamat. That was a huge bummer. And I'm really hoping there's a new part of the content we can do to get the new Artifact stuff, versus grinding Tiamat more.
C) PvP is, unfortunately, a pretty hot mess all over the place right now...where to start, right?
Anyway, the big takeaway I want people to have here is that the new Artifact gear is going to help them, not hurt them. If people are quitting because they think Module 6 is going to make all that work they put into their current gear worthless, they're wrong.
That's the big one.
10000000% agree
May I kindly ask you to empirically prove that statement?
I read it somewhere along the line and one of the WTF posts contained a link, skipped for it, but did not find it, sorry. I will post it, when I come across it again.
I found the following in a CM statement:
'And again, it was never promised that existing artifacts would remain BiS; rather, stated that they
would not be rendered obsolete and an upgrade would be necessary. It's not necessary to upgrade
your arti to 70 to complete any content in mod 6.'
Either half of the community and some CMs are delusional about the Dev comment, or it is out there somewhere.
You ditched main point
- people don't want to run same grind again! People don't want their effort to be wasted.
No one wants to run Tiamat again. Grind RP again. Wait for no planned 2xRP again. Deal with bugs in tiamat / queue again. Buy those cubes to unlock effects again.
To be dropped from level of player that never ever spend a moment to run tiamat or grind RP again. People hate their effort - time and money wasted again.
So if you do care to sum - sum all not just what you want to hear really.
Really this all sound like - "hey this is your new shiny car for 10k$. But you build it yourself first so it can drive and then play with it . Ok you got it. Well this is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now.WE have faster one. Give me your old one for 20% (not 80 as double RP combo) and build it yourslef again so it can drive... and repeat again or stay slow in your old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>"