if there was any other content in mod 6 to go for better equip/artifacts or get linus fine (not talking about the quest you need about 1 week to fullfill and grind until your finger bleeds)
if not it really is nothing more than a torture, except for player that decided to take not part in this....btw what are you doing in neverwinter, leveling toons and delete them again, grinding all day ?
@pointsman i do agree to some arguements, but tbh i think 80% of ppl in mmorpg´s only go there to reach "endcontent" improve their char, thats normally the game is about
if it is like now, a funless grind to get there, i can´t understand what the ppl search in this game except PVP that lies at the intensive unit atm and nobody can tell if its going to survive
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The new Artifact equipment is actually GOOD for players. But what people DON'T like are:
A) Not being able to queue with friends in Tiamat/Having to regrind Tiamat The actual refinement process isn't fun
C) PvP still has big balance issues
So those are all separate issues, which I agree with.
A) My biggest disapointment in module 5 was not being able to reliably queue with guildmates in Tiamat. That was a huge bummer. And I'm really hoping there's a new part of the content we can do to get the new Artifact stuff, versus grinding Tiamat more.
Again, I've said it over and over. I agree. I suggested a new system using Experience as an RP currency, to reward players for playing the game.
C) PvP is, unfortunately, a pretty hot mess all over the place right now...where to start, right?
Anyway, the big takeaway I want people to have here is that the new Artifact gear is going to help them, not hurt them. If people are quitting because they think Module 6 is going to make all that work they put into their current gear worthless, they're wrong.
That's the big one.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
but again, I just stated that , SURE Ive seen some reworks done, but there is NO rework here, its the SAME exact grind!
Eggzachery. The comparison to WoW is moot and laughable because they changed the content. NW is rehashing the content. Same old same old. The original 40-man raids that were scaled to 10-25 was different. The mechanics weren't the same either. What changes in Tiamat besides the lvl of the mobs? Oh nothing you say..? Three months of bugged as hell and laggy Tiamat. Who wants to experience that BS over and over and over and over and over again? Certainly not me.
Back to OP. I'm not sure I understand. You took your legendary lvl 60 artifact weapon and refined it into your lvl 70 new green one and it rose to lvl 56? That doesn't seem so bad to me. Granted we have more lvls to raise it up to but I expected a much lower return in RP. My only problem is that three of my artifact equipment have been transmuted into unique looks that cannot be obtained again so I, at least am sitting with a bit of a dilemma.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
You took your legendary lvl 60 artifact weapon and refined it into your lvl 70 new green one and it rose to lvl 56?
The new Artifact Weapons are level 60. And that's correct. But even at level 56, it's substantially more powerful than my old level 60 orb.
So no one's going backwards here.
Of course, I'm also super picking about my appearance, so I can understand your distress about possibly losing unique looks. What items are you losing?
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
The Bow from the Summer Festival. The Blades from the second-to-last skirmish event and the cloak from the ToD campaign tree. The first two can be replaced in time but the last one is completely unique and cannot be acquired again.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
That sucks. We should ask for a vendor with the special cloaks from each faction, or make them reclaimable in the campaign window.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
FYI here's a side-by-side on the new Great Cloaks versus the Regular.
tl;dr The Greater Cloaks are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. There's no reason to upgrade your existing cloak for a such a minor change in stats. And I'm certainly not going to run Tiamat an extra 15 times for that.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
Compare it with the personalized necklace for level 70. Do I think the Artifact cloak is better? Yes. Is it soooooo much better that I would spend millions of AD upgrading it over this? Probably not. If I was to recommend something, especially to a new player, it would be to just go get the personalized neck and worry about the Artifact cloak when you have more AD than you know what to do with:
EDIT: Basically, if you already have an existing Artifact Cloak, that's great. Keep it. If you don't, use the JC one. Don't waste your time or AD on ranking up a Greater one.
Compare it with the personalized necklace for level 70. Do I think the Artifact cloak is better? Yes. Is it soooooo much better that I would spend millions of AD upgrading it over this? Probably not. If I was to recommend something, especially to a new player, it would be to just go get the personalized neck and worry about the Artifact cloak when you have more AD than you know what to do with:
EDIT: Basically, if you already have an existing Artifact Cloak, that's great. Keep it. If you don't, use the JC one. Don't waste your time or AD on ranking up a Greater one.
Maybe its just me, but I would like to see these necks be closer in power to the artifact items. Both the Neck and Belt.
The Neck should offer both AC bonuses as well as AP/Sec like the artifact ones do. Now they should not be on par with the neck, however I think these should be made EQUAL with ATLEAST the Epic versions of the neck pieces. This seems only fair to me. otherwise it is just a lat out waste to have these in game. You have to level up to lvl 25 in JC to get them, that time could have been better spent on leadership - which helps you long term.
Then merely getting 15 Linus, you can buy a green one and getting enough RP to get to atleast blue or even Epic isnt THAT hard if you know what your doing. Now, getting it to orange IS CRAZY high cost, but to lvl 35 (Epic) isnt.
I would even wager its probably comparable "work load" wise when looking at an Epic Arti-Neck versus lvl 25 JC Neck.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Compare it with the personalized necklace for level 70. Do I think the Artifact cloak is better? Yes. Is it soooooo much better that I would spend millions of AD upgrading it over this? Probably not. If I was to recommend something, especially to a new player, it would be to just go get the personalized neck and worry about the Artifact cloak when you have more AD than you know what to do with:
EDIT: Basically, if you already have an existing Artifact Cloak, that's great. Keep it. If you don't, use the JC one. Don't waste your time or AD on ranking up a Greater one.
It depends on the class a blue artifact cloak may in fact be far superior for some classes, depends on how often you can pop dailies for some, others base damage would be far better with just the personalized stuff.
Compare it with the personalized necklace for level 70. Do I think the Artifact cloak is better? Yes. Is it soooooo much better that I would spend millions of AD upgrading it over this? Probably not. If I was to recommend something, especially to a new player, it would be to just go get the personalized neck and worry about the Artifact cloak when you have more AD than you know what to do with:
EDIT: Basically, if you already have an existing Artifact Cloak, that's great. Keep it. If you don't, use the JC one. Don't waste your time or AD on ranking up a Greater one.
except thos of us that acualy got the 3 piece set of black ice
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
FYI here's a side-by-side on the new Great Cloaks versus the Regular.
tl;dr The Greater Cloaks are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. There's no reason to upgrade your existing cloak for a such a minor change in stats. And I'm certainly not going to run Tiamat an extra 15 times for that.
At first glance the difference in stats look to be sizeable until you realise that it equates to less than 1% increase thanks to the new stat curves...
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
It's been said "The Community" doesn't like refining.
Heads-up. There are dissenters in "The Community" who think the refinement system is good. Probably everyone agrees that it is a grind... but, but not all of us see it as something that should be thrown away. (And, my opinion is Zerg's suggestion for experience-based refinement would make it way better.)
I'm one of those dissenters. Those of us who understand the value of the refinement system don't have reason to argue or post our opinion. So, take a vote if it makes you feel better. That vote would be biased toward those who are disgruntled and motivated to complain, and therefore non-scientific.
I'm pretty proud of what I've been able to accomplish with my artifacts... taking advantage of the best strategies I can to improve them all to purple. I never put a dime in them and I never felt like I was purely farming. So, I'm one of those who is happy to have a challenge and delighted when I achieve it.
And, most importantly, it aint all bad to get new challenges that provide reason to keep playing. God-mode is only fun for a short while.
It's been said "The Community" doesn't like refining.
Heads-up. There are dissenters in "The Community" who think the refinement system is good. Probably everyone agrees that it is a grind... but, but not all of us see it as something that should be thrown away. (And, my opinion is Zerg's suggestion for experience-based refinement would make it way better.)
I'm one of those dissenters. Those of us who understand the value of the refinement system don't have reason to argue or post our opinion. So, take a vote if it makes you feel better. That vote would be biased toward those who are disgruntled and motivated to complain, and therefore non-scientific.
I'm pretty proud of what I've been able to accomplish with my artifacts... taking advantage of the best strategies I can to improve them all to purple. I never put a dime in them and I never felt like I was purely farming. So, I'm one of those who is happy to have a challenge and delighted when I achieve it.
And, most importantly, it aint all bad to get new challenges that provide reason to keep playing. God-mode is only fun for a short while.
i love the idea of experince based refining the more you play the more you can refine
i wish it wasnt necacry to change the refining system but it has been broken since artifact gear came out and we all know it
as far at the gear we have now the only reason we have to replace our artifacts is cause of the stat changes and those that think our curennt gear will work well should look at the new stat curves (stright line)
as far as the devs are concerend they need to look at there cusomer base and see what they are saying and acualy listen to them
for months we have asked for a new refining system, a new balanced pvp system, a new tiamat encounter, and finaly new content
none of it has been addresseds yet
mabey the devs need a wake up call
I get that the new artifact gear is all-around better and that I'd still end up ahead stat-wise if I fed the old artifact gear to the new gear, but I gotta admit that the whole situation is kinda discouraging for me. I don't have anything at legendary yet. On my main character, I was able to get my main-hand, off-hand, and belt up to purple (didn't try to get a cloak because I don't have any of the regular artifacts needed to complete a set). I got the main-hand almost up to rank 53 so getting something to legendary started to actually seem like a possibility, but then I get the news that better artifact gear is coming and I'm going to have to take a loss on the progress I made so far if I upgrade. The finish line that was in sight just got moved out of sight again. My only alt just has a main-hand and a belt (both aren't even purple yet) and is still maybe a week away from having enough Linu Favors to get an off-hand, which I guess I'll just save for the new off-hand at this point. I haven't purchased any RP from the auction house. All the progress I made came from drops. I don't have a leadership alt army to be able to afford buying RP, and if a good chunk of the RP in the auction house is from bots then it probably isn't something I should have supported anyway. If this turns into a trend of replacing artifact gear every few months, I doubt I'd ever be able to get to that Legendary quality finish line, not to mention any quality beyond that. Mythic quality? Heck, it might even be lucky if I can keep my artifact gear at purple and not have to start settling for blue artifacts or just give up on artifacts all together. I liked the idea of artifacts being gear that could grow with my character without being replaced every few months, but I guess it isn't. So yeah, it's kind of discouraging.
Re-read (or actually read) my post again. I'll add some emphasis to make it easier for you.
You can make it bigger as much as you want. And I do agree to the point you say really.
Like i sad you missed point of "Extra" efforts repeating.Marks, RP, cubes ets.Read my post again.
No just stupid grind of bugged boring content. It more like the take a way candy that you worked your *** to get. Right after you was close to reaching it.
btw EXP for RP is awesome idea. Im both hand supports it and want it to be in game. At least it would make some sense and reward actually playing game then stupid rnd grind.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I think it's a fair point that you don't necessarily need the new Greater Cloaks and Belts with the amount of stat increase and actual +% within the new stat curves.
At least you might want to work the weapon and off hand first, because the +damage is indeed major. Those toons that currently don't own any belt/cloaks should get the Greater ones, otherwise you can safely discard them unless you absolutely want to be maxed. The majority of stats will come from the new armor sets, Enchantments and Artifacts ranks.
very discouraging. the only 'BENEFITS' gained from artifact gear are those seen by whoever gets money when people purchase zen or people willing to purchase zen to become the quickest bis swagplayer.
broken record, but artifact gear killed cooperative focus in this game. without artifacts, we had a situation where working for gear required teamwork. with artifact gear, we have a situation (especially because of how tiamat doesn't allow for easy partying and because the best places to grab rp is in foundries) where gaining gear is a single player grind.
So, along with what jpalo said, the main gripe is that the people who play this game for fun and comraderie hate artifacts, and now we get more of them. I would much rather have a campaign to work through that unlocked a fun dungeon which dropped the pieces to my gear (fully upgraded and even bop would be preferable to artifacts). Better yet, a group of dungeons that each drop a different piece of gear. Bring the game back to its former glory. And yet, what we get is more stuff in the wrong direction.
That being said, if they love artifact gear so much, another nice change would have been to destroy the cooldown on dragon hoard enchant. keep the stones bop to account, and add much better rp rewards to dugeon and foundry chests. haven't heard anything positive in that direction, however, so what we get is people upset with artifacts. as they should be.
Back on topic...artifact gear benefits the rich. To everyone else, it is a hinderance to fun.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
You can make it bigger as much as you want. And I do agree to the point you say really.
Like i sad you missed point of "Extra" efforts repeating.Marks, RP, cubes ets.Read my post again.
No just stupid grind of bugged boring content. It more like the take a way candy that you worked your *** to get. Right after you was close to reaching it.
btw EXP for RP is awesome idea. Im both hand supports it and want it to be in game. At least it would make some sense and reward actually playing game then stupid rnd grind.
I been wondering for some time...what is RND? I even see it in for sig. Don't you mean RNG (Random Number Generator)? Not trying to make fun or anything. Just curious.
And I would be completely in favour of Ironzerg's suggestion of using XP to lvl gear. It would give us actual incentive to PLAY this game instead of sitting there dragging and dropping RP into slots five. at. a. time.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I been wondering for some time...what is RND? I even see it in for sig. Don't you mean RNG (Random Number Generator)? Not trying to make fun or anything. Just curious.
And I would be completely in favour of Ironzerg's suggestion of using XP to lvl gear. It would give us actual incentive to PLAY this game instead of sitting there dragging and dropping RP into slots five. at. a. time.
RND is short for Random.
And yes, not to toot my own dragon horn, but I would also feel a lot better about these changes if I knew all I had to do was play the game to get the necessary points to keep up with refinement
I been wondering for some time...what is RND? I even see it in for sig. Don't you mean RNG (Random Number Generator)? Not trying to make fun or anything. Just curious.
And I would be completely in favour of Ironzerg's suggestion of using XP to lvl gear. It would give us actual incentive to PLAY this game instead of sitting there dragging and dropping RP into slots five. at. a. time.
Back in old days RND is random function from Visual Basic or even older assembler. Just "old" software developer check/joke.
In short - when you can not make something work as intended (in excel as example or in your homework lab back in study days) - put RND into it. It may work once so that you can take a screenshot. And you got it right - Random Number generator. Just a different function name from "old day"
Also random(Rnd, rand. Math.Random() ets) is advised to use in some algorithms when you can not control input. EG fast search. In will work good with > 1m repeats "in general" but may not be deterministic on next run.
As iteration of idea - you can not balance something. Put Random into it, make it dependable on some thing as luck rather on your skill as developer. That is why random is banned from cyber sport games.
I wish they did XP to RP system anyway.
And yeah - I hate killing dragon queen every hour or dragons every 15 mins . They are dragons. A RAID BOSS. should be killed 5-10 times a module at top by experience team not fresh-babies that just got out their diapers.
This game is random based reward with no chalange. Even if you have gone 100% grind tiamat hoards - you still got random drop.
You ditched main point
- people don't want to run same grind again! People don't want their effort to be wasted.
But whenever a new mod or new gear comes out, you will always have 'wasted' effort as you chase for the new thing, leaving the old thing behind.
Example: I did ESOT and ELOL and Dragon HE's in Mod 4 to get my Draconic set. Now all of that effort will be "wasted" in Mod 6 as that gear becomes obsolete.
Example: I and a bunch of other people chased after BI gear in Mod 3. Doing all of those HE's to get my gloves and mainhand to drop. All of that effort is "wasted" now because there is a new Elemental PVP set coming out. So was all of that HE grinding in IWD "wasted effort"? Maybe I should cry on the forums that we should not get new PVP gear because "I don't want to waste the effort that it took to get those stupid gloves"?
Every upgrade comes with some "wasted effort" if you want to think of it that way. Why is refining any different?
lol your way off there the neck and waste are almost 2x as good so if you got black ice set lv 60 you will need new neck and waste
The stats are almost 2x as good but once you realize how much those stats actually give you in abilities, you'll be much more hesitant to upgrade the cloak.
For instance, the difference in Crit between the Imperial cloak and the Greater Imperial cloak represents about 0.5% critical chance. If you want to spend 10 million RP's in order to obtain an extra 0.5% critical chance, be my guest. I won't, however.
however really with a x2 event the loss is near to 0 to have a new legendary weapon with much better stats.
what is boring and makes me rage is the rng behind that and the need to farm again old buggy content. I still dont know if i will do it.
But whenever a new mod or new gear comes out, you will always have 'wasted' effort as you chase for the new thing, leaving the old thing behind.
Example: I did ESOT and ELOL and Dragon HE's in Mod 4 to get my Draconic set. Now all of that effort will be "wasted" in Mod 6 as that gear becomes obsolete.
Example: I and a bunch of other people chased after BI gear in Mod 3. Doing all of those HE's to get my gloves and mainhand to drop. All of that effort is "wasted" now because there is a new Elemental PVP set coming out. So was all of that HE grinding in IWD "wasted effort"? Maybe I should cry on the forums that we should not get new PVP gear because "I don't want to waste the effort that it took to get those stupid gloves"?
Every upgrade comes with some "wasted effort" if you want to think of it that way. Why is refining any different?
Amount of efforts. I mean I got by draconic mod 4 set in 2 weeks. or it costs ~ 1m at that price. Same ~ or > 2 weeks grind for AD depends on how you run stuff.
Instead of as example for mod 4 and mod 5
- 3m on dex/con belt or random lock for dragon kill over weeks.
- Or 15 linus for just 1 off hand/neck >= 15 success runs = 15 actual game hours. I got mine in ~ 1 week by grind due to good company I was in and basically 21k GS at mod 5 start. OR again Random drop.
- then refine it to acceptable level to use as blue.
- Grind and pile for 2RP weekend.
Even for my orange belt in mod 4 with cheap RP on AH I had to buy some of it to get to orange. overall > 1m expences for sure. You can count AD efforts now.
Basically before - you got a piece. you are done. Now you put same efforts to get start piece. Then you ad more and more and more to it. Return of investments sucks now. Especially if it is not XP to RP. Where you can somewhat enjoy game and get better- instead you have borring grind.
But whenever a new mod or new gear comes out, you will always have 'wasted' effort as you chase for the new thing, leaving the old thing behind.
Example: I did ESOT and ELOL and Dragon HE's in Mod 4 to get my Draconic set. Now all of that effort will be "wasted" in Mod 6 as that gear becomes obsolete.
Example: I and a bunch of other people chased after BI gear in Mod 3. Doing all of those HE's to get my gloves and mainhand to drop. All of that effort is "wasted" now because there is a new Elemental PVP set coming out. So was all of that HE grinding in IWD "wasted effort"? Maybe I should cry on the forums that we should not get new PVP gear because "I don't want to waste the effort that it took to get those stupid gloves"?
Every upgrade comes with some "wasted effort" if you want to think of it that way. Why is refining any different?
the problem between old RNG point and RP equipment is quite big.
the first point is with RNG even if new equip appear, you can still chase the old one without any affect for new one. with RP it lost because you get a little part of rp back by feeding a new equip with an old one.
RP equipement now become a neverending permantent goal in NWN now, mean you are only playing for RP and nothing else. let take an example: 4 peace at 5 millions RP mean 20 millions rp(i do not count other item). next mod new better artifact equip. you loose 12 million by feeding new one with old one. mean with the actual rate of mod it once every 4 month: 120 day. so it mean you have to collect 100 000 RP per day just to be bis on the last day of your module. it not counting the fact to up it at least once before nor every other item that cost RP.
Actual RP systeme with artifact equipment look the very same as for xp if you want the new content you have to get back to lvl 20 and re lvl up to 60-70 and restart every campaign
RP system is the whole only reason i stop the game
Comments
if not it really is nothing more than a torture, except for player that decided to take not part in this....btw what are you doing in neverwinter, leveling toons and delete them again, grinding all day ?
@pointsman i do agree to some arguements, but tbh i think 80% of ppl in mmorpg´s only go there to reach "endcontent" improve their char, thats normally the game is about
if it is like now, a funless grind to get there, i can´t understand what the ppl search in this game except PVP that lies at the intensive unit atm and nobody can tell if its going to survive
Re-read (or actually read) my post again. I'll add some emphasis to make it easier for you.
Eggzachery. The comparison to WoW is moot and laughable because they changed the content. NW is rehashing the content. Same old same old. The original 40-man raids that were scaled to 10-25 was different. The mechanics weren't the same either. What changes in Tiamat besides the lvl of the mobs? Oh nothing you say..? Three months of bugged as hell and laggy Tiamat. Who wants to experience that BS over and over and over and over and over again? Certainly not me.
Back to OP. I'm not sure I understand. You took your legendary lvl 60 artifact weapon and refined it into your lvl 70 new green one and it rose to lvl 56? That doesn't seem so bad to me. Granted we have more lvls to raise it up to but I expected a much lower return in RP. My only problem is that three of my artifact equipment have been transmuted into unique looks that cannot be obtained again so I, at least am sitting with a bit of a dilemma.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The new Artifact Weapons are level 60. And that's correct. But even at level 56, it's substantially more powerful than my old level 60 orb.
So no one's going backwards here.
Of course, I'm also super picking about my appearance, so I can understand your distress about possibly losing unique looks. What items are you losing?
The Bow from the Summer Festival. The Blades from the second-to-last skirmish event and the cloak from the ToD campaign tree. The first two can be replaced in time but the last one is completely unique and cannot be acquired again.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
tl;dr The Greater Cloaks are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. There's no reason to upgrade your existing cloak for a such a minor change in stats. And I'm certainly not going to run Tiamat an extra 15 times for that.
EDIT: Basically, if you already have an existing Artifact Cloak, that's great. Keep it. If you don't, use the JC one. Don't waste your time or AD on ranking up a Greater one.
Maybe its just me, but I would like to see these necks be closer in power to the artifact items. Both the Neck and Belt.
The Neck should offer both AC bonuses as well as AP/Sec like the artifact ones do. Now they should not be on par with the neck, however I think these should be made EQUAL with ATLEAST the Epic versions of the neck pieces. This seems only fair to me. otherwise it is just a lat out waste to have these in game. You have to level up to lvl 25 in JC to get them, that time could have been better spent on leadership - which helps you long term.
Then merely getting 15 Linus, you can buy a green one and getting enough RP to get to atleast blue or even Epic isnt THAT hard if you know what your doing. Now, getting it to orange IS CRAZY high cost, but to lvl 35 (Epic) isnt.
I would even wager its probably comparable "work load" wise when looking at an Epic Arti-Neck versus lvl 25 JC Neck.
It depends on the class a blue artifact cloak may in fact be far superior for some classes, depends on how often you can pop dailies for some, others base damage would be far better with just the personalized stuff.
except thos of us that acualy got the 3 piece set of black ice
At first glance the difference in stats look to be sizeable until you realise that it equates to less than 1% increase thanks to the new stat curves...
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Then you already have a refined Black Ice Cloak. There's no compelling reason to switch right now.
Heads-up. There are dissenters in "The Community" who think the refinement system is good. Probably everyone agrees that it is a grind... but, but not all of us see it as something that should be thrown away. (And, my opinion is Zerg's suggestion for experience-based refinement would make it way better.)
I'm one of those dissenters. Those of us who understand the value of the refinement system don't have reason to argue or post our opinion. So, take a vote if it makes you feel better. That vote would be biased toward those who are disgruntled and motivated to complain, and therefore non-scientific.
I'm pretty proud of what I've been able to accomplish with my artifacts... taking advantage of the best strategies I can to improve them all to purple. I never put a dime in them and I never felt like I was purely farming. So, I'm one of those who is happy to have a challenge and delighted when I achieve it.
And, most importantly, it aint all bad to get new challenges that provide reason to keep playing. God-mode is only fun for a short while.
i got blue neck and epic waist and artifact but with new stat changes they will be obsolete in a few weeks
i love the idea of experince based refining the more you play the more you can refine
i wish it wasnt necacry to change the refining system but it has been broken since artifact gear came out and we all know it
as far at the gear we have now the only reason we have to replace our artifacts is cause of the stat changes and those that think our curennt gear will work well should look at the new stat curves (stright line)
as far as the devs are concerend they need to look at there cusomer base and see what they are saying and acualy listen to them
for months we have asked for a new refining system, a new balanced pvp system, a new tiamat encounter, and finaly new content
none of it has been addresseds yet
mabey the devs need a wake up call
You can make it bigger as much as you want. And I do agree to the point you say really.
Like i sad you missed point of "Extra" efforts repeating.Marks, RP, cubes ets.Read my post again.
No just stupid grind of bugged boring content. It more like the take a way candy that you worked your *** to get. Right after you was close to reaching it.
btw EXP for RP is awesome idea. Im both hand supports it and want it to be in game. At least it would make some sense and reward actually playing game then stupid rnd grind.
Why? What are you switching to? There's no change to the BiB, the new Greater cloak isn't worth the effort, and I'm guessing neither will the belt.
At least you might want to work the weapon and off hand first, because the +damage is indeed major. Those toons that currently don't own any belt/cloaks should get the Greater ones, otherwise you can safely discard them unless you absolutely want to be maxed. The majority of stats will come from the new armor sets, Enchantments and Artifacts ranks.
broken record, but artifact gear killed cooperative focus in this game. without artifacts, we had a situation where working for gear required teamwork. with artifact gear, we have a situation (especially because of how tiamat doesn't allow for easy partying and because the best places to grab rp is in foundries) where gaining gear is a single player grind.
So, along with what jpalo said, the main gripe is that the people who play this game for fun and comraderie hate artifacts, and now we get more of them. I would much rather have a campaign to work through that unlocked a fun dungeon which dropped the pieces to my gear (fully upgraded and even bop would be preferable to artifacts). Better yet, a group of dungeons that each drop a different piece of gear. Bring the game back to its former glory. And yet, what we get is more stuff in the wrong direction.
That being said, if they love artifact gear so much, another nice change would have been to destroy the cooldown on dragon hoard enchant. keep the stones bop to account, and add much better rp rewards to dugeon and foundry chests. haven't heard anything positive in that direction, however, so what we get is people upset with artifacts. as they should be.
Back on topic...artifact gear benefits the rich. To everyone else, it is a hinderance to fun.
I been wondering for some time...what is RND? I even see it in for sig. Don't you mean RNG (Random Number Generator)? Not trying to make fun or anything. Just curious.
And I would be completely in favour of Ironzerg's suggestion of using XP to lvl gear. It would give us actual incentive to PLAY this game instead of sitting there dragging and dropping RP into slots five. at. a. time.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
RND is short for Random.
And yes, not to toot my own dragon horn, but I would also feel a lot better about these changes if I knew all I had to do was play the game to get the necessary points to keep up with refinement
Back in old days RND is random function from Visual Basic or even older assembler. Just "old" software developer check/joke.
In short - when you can not make something work as intended (in excel as example or in your homework lab back in study days) - put RND into it. It may work once so that you can take a screenshot. And you got it right - Random Number generator. Just a different function name from "old day"
Also random(Rnd, rand. Math.Random() ets) is advised to use in some algorithms when you can not control input. EG fast search. In will work good with > 1m repeats "in general" but may not be deterministic on next run.
As iteration of idea - you can not balance something. Put Random into it, make it dependable on some thing as luck rather on your skill as developer. That is why random is banned from cyber sport games.
I wish they did XP to RP system anyway.
And yeah - I hate killing dragon queen every hour or dragons every 15 mins . They are dragons. A RAID BOSS. should be killed 5-10 times a module at top by experience team not fresh-babies that just got out their diapers.
This game is random based reward with no chalange. Even if you have gone 100% grind tiamat hoards - you still got random drop.
lol your way off there the neck and waste are almost 2x as good so if you got black ice set lv 60 you will need new neck and waste
But whenever a new mod or new gear comes out, you will always have 'wasted' effort as you chase for the new thing, leaving the old thing behind.
Example: I did ESOT and ELOL and Dragon HE's in Mod 4 to get my Draconic set. Now all of that effort will be "wasted" in Mod 6 as that gear becomes obsolete.
Example: I and a bunch of other people chased after BI gear in Mod 3. Doing all of those HE's to get my gloves and mainhand to drop. All of that effort is "wasted" now because there is a new Elemental PVP set coming out. So was all of that HE grinding in IWD "wasted effort"? Maybe I should cry on the forums that we should not get new PVP gear because "I don't want to waste the effort that it took to get those stupid gloves"?
Every upgrade comes with some "wasted effort" if you want to think of it that way. Why is refining any different?
The stats are almost 2x as good but once you realize how much those stats actually give you in abilities, you'll be much more hesitant to upgrade the cloak.
For instance, the difference in Crit between the Imperial cloak and the Greater Imperial cloak represents about 0.5% critical chance. If you want to spend 10 million RP's in order to obtain an extra 0.5% critical chance, be my guest. I won't, however.
what is boring and makes me rage is the rng behind that and the need to farm again old buggy content. I still dont know if i will do it.
Amount of efforts. I mean I got by draconic mod 4 set in 2 weeks. or it costs ~ 1m at that price. Same ~ or > 2 weeks grind for AD depends on how you run stuff.
Instead of as example for mod 4 and mod 5
- 3m on dex/con belt or random lock for dragon kill over weeks.
- Or 15 linus for just 1 off hand/neck >= 15 success runs = 15 actual game hours. I got mine in ~ 1 week by grind due to good company I was in and basically 21k GS at mod 5 start. OR again Random drop.
- then refine it to acceptable level to use as blue.
- Grind and pile for 2RP weekend.
Even for my orange belt in mod 4 with cheap RP on AH I had to buy some of it to get to orange. overall > 1m expences for sure. You can count AD efforts now.
Basically before - you got a piece. you are done. Now you put same efforts to get start piece. Then you ad more and more and more to it. Return of investments sucks now. Especially if it is not XP to RP. Where you can somewhat enjoy game and get better- instead you have borring grind.
the problem between old RNG point and RP equipment is quite big.
the first point is with RNG even if new equip appear, you can still chase the old one without any affect for new one. with RP it lost because you get a little part of rp back by feeding a new equip with an old one.
RP equipement now become a neverending permantent goal in NWN now, mean you are only playing for RP and nothing else. let take an example: 4 peace at 5 millions RP mean 20 millions rp(i do not count other item). next mod new better artifact equip. you loose 12 million by feeding new one with old one. mean with the actual rate of mod it once every 4 month: 120 day. so it mean you have to collect 100 000 RP per day just to be bis on the last day of your module. it not counting the fact to up it at least once before nor every other item that cost RP.
Actual RP systeme with artifact equipment look the very same as for xp if you want the new content you have to get back to lvl 20 and re lvl up to 60-70 and restart every campaign
RP system is the whole only reason i stop the game