beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
I never made the jump to heroes because I wouldn't have been able to refine that much anyway, so yes, poor return. Adventurers, they all came from lockboxes I was opening for fun or were purchased when they were at historic lows.
It is very likely I'll acquire more footmen and spread the blue dudes around. And they are very helpful for levelling.
Originally Posted by healary:
That's the point. The new and poor are already behind in Mod 5 and they will be even more behind in Mod 6. When the gap between the haves and the have-nots keeps increasing, the economy will be in bad shape.
How many other games can you list where new players are on par with end-game players without any serious investment in playing the game? The only thing that takes time in this game is boons, everything else can be bought with enough money. I have no issues with new players having to actually work to get on par with the long-time players.
I kindly remind people that there is no such thing as a "gap" between "haves and have-nots". The is a ridiculous idea and here's why:
Level 70 Toon with Tier 10 Gear and super-duper epictastic everything else versus the Newbie who just finished the tutorial and has nothing: what about all the people in-between? All the people who started last week? Or two weeks ago? or three? There is no gap. There is a fresh progression of people at every possible in-between level from level 1 all the way through to the level cap and beyond.
Now with the very idea of a "gap" between established and newbie players totally debunked, let's get back to the real meat of the debate, shall we?
The new changes to leadership profession are all good. So what if it takes a little bit longer to earn the same stuff? The fact is hat the studio must generate revenue, and this helps entice that through Zen market sales, not by much, but every little bit helps. I know: same old argument about revenue, blah, blah, blah.
My point being that I see these changes as a net-positive for all players. If the player adapts they will reap more, not less. If, at the same time, the developer is able to generate a little more revenue and slow-down script-kiddie farming (even if only temporarily) I see it all as a good thing.
I genuinely cannot see any 'detriment' to any player, including the girl who just finished her tutorial for the first time. Any argument of this type is a simple slight-of-hand redirect from the complainants true meaning: they won't get status quo. If it will take you that much longer to turn your super-duper-epic artifact into woozier-super-orgasmic artifact then deal with it. Fine other ways to get the resources (including AD) that you need. Nothing says you have to do it in three weeks, or even three months. and once you've reached that 'climax' of gear and level, then what? Will you begin your "there's no more content" arguments?
Just asking.
In real life it's "adapt or die". Such applies to Mod 6, just as it has applied to Mod 5, and Mod 4, and Mod... you get the idea.
Now with the very idea of a "gap" between established and newbie players totally debunked, let's get back to the real meat of the debate, shall we?
Just because you say it's totally debunked doesn't make it true. I could possibly expand but it's hard to tell what's allowed here and what's not so I'll save my breath.
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sokolnichiyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 187Arc User
A lot of people are raging because of these leadership changes. I find this rather amusing. The changes to leadership are only a good thing, from what I can tell. It puts players on a more level playing field in ratio to time committed
First, let's talk about the changes that happened, one at a time:
- Destroy enemy camps is now a 16 hour task, meaning it can only be run once a day without a whole lot of expensive assets. This is good. It discourages the use of a leadership alt army. I have always been against that type of play style. In my opinion, AD should be earned from playing the game, not by logging in at exact intervals certain times every day to click some buttons in a web browser. This way, the hardcore players make more AD because they play more often, and casual players make less AD for not playing as often. This is the way it should be. In no game should a profession allow casual players to make the same amount of income as a hardcore player.
- Addition of RP gathering tasks. Yes. Yes. Thank you SO much. While I am against the whole concept of RP, this is progress to making it acceptable. Now, casual players have some source of AD, while hardcore players get even more RP then the casuals by playing the game, as RP also drops in game Mod 6. This change is ideal. My only complaint is that you can only get RP from leadership once it is past rank 20, and new players will not be able to reach that boundary quickly. Perhaps lesser RP gathering tasks should be added throughout the tree. I think that would be the ideal solution
The only reason people are complaining is because the lazy method of earning AD has been removed. Leadership should be a supplement to AD gain, not the main source of it. I do not think that was ever its intention, and I'm glad they are fixing it. Hopefully this will help inflation, and bring prices down a bit!
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not some poor ****, with a lesser vorp, and green gear. I've been playing over a year, have 9 chars running leadership, and make about 50-60k daily from it updating professions once daily. And anyone who has been around a long time knows how well CN weapons sold all the way through the end of mod 3/beginning of mod 4. Dungeons used to be farmable. Even T2s.
Jesus u so much wrong.
Don't u know, that by your words you harass players who have no time to spend ages ingame grinding. But prefer to build farm and get profit. They pay zen to get slots for chars, they spend time to lvl up professions and leveling up leadership can take lotsa time and effort.
To sum it all up, u appreciate raiders who still from poor mobs, and laugh at those who like to stay at peace and plow their "land" to get good harvest in time.
Lots of points here. I have to say i think the changes here are positive, and i have over 11 toons with lvl 20 leadership (and i do it about once a day, I cannot be bothered to do it that much more, even though i have many purple and blue and green assets)
So much talk about the poor being poorer, and those of us that have it better because we were here earlier. The price of most assets has dropped with time, not increased so the millions ad i spent making my purple assets could not even be regained if i chose to sell them now. Many of us leveled the other professions when there was no 'deep woods' version of the resource gathering... nuch harder and longer leveling path....
Oh, and have you tried to buy any t2 gear lately? While you cannot sell HV gear for the 500K or more it would draw for a single piece, you can now buy a full set for about 100K... many of us ended up farming the ad to buy the gear we needed after many many runs, before there were keys and you had to wake up on saturday morning to catch the DD event...
Kids these days have it soooo easy, when i was your age, i had to walk up Kunn in the lava... both ways.... My perspective is new players have it much easier... oh, and do you have a purple artifact that you had to grind but it is now obsolete? New players can take 'short cuts' because they can focus on the new shiney without the pile of hard earned old shineys sitting in a chest...
I am very disappointed about the introduction of the Thaumaturge Stones. These are RP items that can ONLY be used on enchants and runestones. So you can level your Weapon Enchants and gear enchants with these, but not your artifacts or your artifact gear.
I really really really wish Cryptic would stop introducing so many different kinds of RP. now there are 3 more items i need to store in my bags (white/green/blue) and if they add these to the Dragon hoard enchant drop list it will be a total of 6 more (3 account bound and 3 non-bound).
Cyptic made the potion situation less complicated by only letting you have 1 potion/elixir active at a time and 1 food buff, and both attribute potions (4 potions you need to carry max assuming you have found the potion type you prefer).
However they keep adding more and more types of RP, thus needlessly complicating decisions we make, our ability to store items etc etc. This also means the prices of all RP will be slower to drop since production of RP in all it's forms will be spread out between even more drops.
Just give us peridots and sapphires and change aquamarines to be 2500 if you really want to have a 2500 RP option drop, otherwise leave aquas alone at 1500 (b/c honestly changing it would be foolish due to mass buyout that would happen.... but better in the long run i guess, and the people that do get screwed over can live with it... i know, you can remove all the aqua's from the AH before you make the announcement, everyone wins then )
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
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hundetrenerenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 35
A lot of people are raging because of these leadership changes. I find this rather amusing. The changes to leadership are only a good thing, from what I can tell. It puts players on a more level playing field in ratio to time committed
First, let's talk about the changes that happened, one at a time:
- Destroy enemy camps is now a 16 hour task, meaning it can only be run once a day without a whole lot of expensive assets. This is good. It discourages the use of a leadership alt army. I have always been against that type of play style. In my opinion, AD should be earned from playing the game, not by logging in at exact intervals certain times every day to click some buttons in a web browser. This way, the hardcore players make more AD because they play more often, and casual players make less AD for not playing as often. This is the way it should be. In no game should a profession allow casual players to make the same amount of income as a hardcore player.
- Addition of RP gathering tasks. Yes. Yes. Thank you SO much. While I am against the whole concept of RP, this is progress to making it acceptable. Now, casual players have some source of AD, while hardcore players get even more RP then the casuals by playing the game, as RP also drops in game Mod 6. This change is ideal. My only complaint is that you can only get RP from leadership once it is past rank 20, and new players will not be able to reach that boundary quickly. Perhaps lesser RP gathering tasks should be added throughout the tree. I think that would be the ideal solution
The only reason people are complaining is because the lazy method of earning AD has been removed. Leadership should be a supplement to AD gain, not the main source of it. I do not think that was ever its intention, and I'm glad they are fixing it. Hopefully this will help inflation, and bring prices down a bit!
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not some poor ****, with a lesser vorp, and green gear. I've been playing over a year, have 9 chars running leadership, and make about 50-60k daily from it updating professions once daily. And anyone who has been around a long time knows how well CN weapons sold all the way through the end of mod 3/beginning of mod 4. Dungeons used to be farmable. Even T2s.
With all due respect....I really want to explain to you that your biggest error in this is: THERE IS NO WAY TO EARN MONEY IN THIS GAME ANYMORE.
Just to get this out straight: Im most likely one of the players in this game who has the most ingame time. I play a lot, I am stay-at-home woman for health reasons, so... You would think that since i play this much and really know what most things on AH costs/things that can be farmed/dropped are worth, I would take my sweet time and earn ****loads.
Unfortunately this is not the case.
I have played for 14 months now. 8-14 hours a day with some expeptions ofc. (Feel free to remark any looser-get-a-life-comment, but bear in mind, i didnt ask for healt-issues, and quite frankly, I wont care. Id rather be one that play a lot than one that spend the whole paycheck on buying ingame happiness and then cannot afford the rent and elictricity)
Until this day I have never - and then I mean never - gotten a drop that is concidered high value. The only good income I got was when gear was worth AD, so I would go on split runs in CN etc. This was my income. If it was NOT split runs, I would not win a roll.
This repeated itself when the oh so holy artifact belts came into the game.
I watched people around me who played FAR less than me log in, get their daily ton of belts and off they went. When a friend told me he had earned 80 mill AD "the last months" I was on the verge of utter madness. He didnt bother with leadership anymore, he said. Well, good for you.
8-14 hours a day grinding for belts, books, whatnot to earn something. Never happened.
Then WoD came. Endless griding, 40-60 dragonkills a day. I never saw a belt, and absolutely never any cloak from encounter.
Not until the prices became patetic. Then the belts started to drop by the numbers. (10k for a belt, yes, I can retire now..)
Altho, even tho I have done so much encounters I could puke, I still to this day have never gotten a cloak. Because that is worth something, you see, cant have that happen.
And the "fun" part - the only belts that drop are the most crappy ones. The Dex belts that are worth a little more - never seen one. The RNG in this game is completely and utterly screwed up.
If I was to "work more for my AD" I guess I would have to move home to mommy and have her make me food and bring me a pot to do my business in, and ofc stop sleeping all together.
I can also add; Tiamat. Needless to say how many times I have slapped her around. Artifact? Where? nop... Dragon eggs..? Rarely.
So, that leaves me where, exactly. Where and how do I earn my AD?
I have invested in character slots. I have gotten the campaigns up on 4 of them and I acctually run around in Shar on 4 toons a day to make Fey blessings to sell (or use as refinement). And I take every node I see, cause even the small amounts are worth something, so hey, lets sell a few pelts and vitriols.
I send unbound epics around on my toons to try to even out the rough AD, and on my main i ofc do dailies and dont need leadership - so I make materials to sell.
This is how low some must go.
So. I have BiS (ofc that will change in Mod6, since im not going down this road one more time investing even more money, time and hell on something Devs said would not happen, good lying there) I have gotten that from small numbers by selling patetic things for 1k and 5k etc.
But; IF I HAD NOT HAD AN ARMY OF LEADERSHIPDUDES as you so splendidly explains it I WOULD STILL BE RUNNING AROUND WIHT POOPGEAR. Caps intended as I would like to yell a littlebit.
But I have worked my *** off. I have gotten nothing free. I have bought a small amount of zen, but im a beliver in working for your things, so not bought much, and frankly, not all of us have mastered the skill to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gold if that were the case, I would start eating a lot more beans. (And the prices on zenmarket is to rediciolus anyway, i could buy a x-box for the sum of a coalward, for real??)
I even bought the dragonborn pack using Zen exchange. That hurt.
This being said: TO REALLY MAKE GOOD AD IN LEADERSHIP YOU NEED TO LOG IN MORE THAN ONCE A DAY.
I max out my 24k refinement on almost all toons daily (21 toon) with 3 blue, 3 green and rest white assets - on all toons. I dont have heroes. I plan my leadership. I know how to get the most out of it. I plan the things I start up concidering; when will I go to bed tonight? When does this need to finish? Yea, call me patetic, but hey, I got the time. Altho Id rather done something else.
But since i do NOT use any professionbot, my days are like this: I play most of the day, and I have gateway up all day. Im tabbing out litterary once a hour to fix things for a few minutes, cause one toon is making that and one this etc, and it dont do itself. I even log in to swordcoast adventures to get my free roll every day on all toons - cause I can turn that into AD too. I got a trick concerning the free roll I wont even share here to make just a few more hundred AD, thats how geek I am. (no, for the luv, its no exploit, its just a little secret...) Is this really not concidered - working for your ritches? Am I a lazy casual player, then, as you say?
Now, I KNOW im not the only one in my shoes. There are some accounts who are eternally cursed and will never get a drop. There has been posts. While others get discustingly amounts that they really dont deserve compared to the little time they invest.
And then ofc have the "dignity" to tell you that "you need to farm more, you spend to much time on gateway" Eh Lul? Ok.
Well.
Point here is: You are mistaken in your logic. Some of us dont roll d20 on our every move. Some of us are doomed to get nothing. And some of us choose to pay no real money, or, like me, a littlebit money and work for the rest (getting squat in return, mind you, thats how it feels.)
The RNG in this game is blowing my mind away, and I can tell you, this is FAR from the only MMO i have played.. One account cant have zero drop with nonstop farming through two whole modules, while others log in for 30 min and get a belt or two every day. Its something behind this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, im pretty sure, but tahts for another discussion.
The next mod gives more potential for selling things, you say? Earning things to sell? Heh... yea. First of all, things must drop. As you might have understood by now (hopefully...) not all of us have this luck. A HE dont give 100% chance to drop a valuable.
And quite frankly, to ever have a chance at getting anything geared up in this game, RP really isnt the thing you wanna sell. As it is now, the only thing (almost, you get my point here hopefully) you need AD for this days anyway is RP.
So, before you so blizzfully tell the world that they must invest more time and effort... Do what I did. Take a round to talk to people, ask then how they earn AD, ask what they have gotten as drops, ask them how much time they invest.
in the end of it all you can be pretty sure - epic gear in this game is worth less than the salvage. I am salvaging vizier chests.. and HP setitems...It is utter and terribly saddening.
As a finish to this rant I wanna say, there is one tiny portion of what you said I agree on. Let me just see if i find it. Ah, there:
""Leadership should be a supplement to AD gain, not the main source of it.""
It might be the only sentence I can approve of. The words before and after that sentence - not so much.
It SHOULD not be the only source of income. But for some it is exactly what it has to be - and not by choise. And lets also add: The way this game has turned out concerning economy - how can you otherwise earn AD unless you have one of those R20 every day-accounts?
EDIT: In the annoyance I forgot to say: The leadership changes is all ok, dont see any huge problems, wont affect the income by a lot. So that is ok `ish. What my humble opinion is here is how you take your attitude to try to tell people that they dont invest time and effort and resolve to leadership. It is downgrading. You aware how much investment it is to buy so many toonslots and assets? Or doesnt it count in your calculations?
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2015
Don't get the idea of thaum stones. If you want to rank up a radiant, you feed radiants into it. Might seem nice for weapon enchants, but plenty of RP for them already.
Lots of points here. I have to say i think the changes here are positive, and i have over 11 toons with lvl 20 leadership (and i do it about once a day, I cannot be bothered to do it that much more, even though i have many purple and blue and green assets)
So much talk about the poor being poorer, and those of us that have it better because we were here earlier. The price of most assets has dropped with time, not increased so the millions ad i spent making my purple assets could not even be regained if i chose to sell them now. Many of us leveled the other professions when there was no 'deep woods' version of the resource gathering... nuch harder and longer leveling path....
Oh, and have you tried to buy any t2 gear lately? While you cannot sell HV gear for the 500K or more it would draw for a single piece, you can now buy a full set for about 100K... many of us ended up farming the ad to buy the gear we needed after many many runs, before there were keys and you had to wake up on saturday morning to catch the DD event...
Kids these days have it soooo easy, when i was your age, i had to walk up Kunn in the lava... both ways.... My perspective is new players have it much easier... oh, and do you have a purple artifact that you had to grind but it is now obsolete? New players can take 'short cuts' because they can focus on the new shiney without the pile of hard earned old shineys sitting in a chest...
Most of what you said is exactly why there is a big gap. Sure you had to pay 500k for gear, but at the same time you could have farmed 3-4 pieces to sell and made 2 million. What can you farm now and make that kind of AD? Its not really possible without being extremely lucky. Also new players missed out on when coal wards were common from invoking chest. I know several people who had 30-40+ unbound when they changed and the price jumped to about 500k each. Something that was common back in the day.
But on the topic of leadership changes, I think this is a good move. New missions that give rp is a bonus, missions that give more RAD on a longer timer is a bonus. It just means that you only have to check your alts once a day instead of twice. That saves a lot of time in the end. Getting away from having RADs for even more RP would be a good thing. That would allow people to directly get RP easier.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2015
Buy 8 char slots for 1,000,000 or enough quality workers for one character for 1,000,000. Answer's pretty obvious.
Yes, I suppose it is my version of Farmville, and moving to a once-per-day rotation would be freeing.
I'll have to figure out something so that I don't feel like all my adventurers are wasted, since there's no point to having a speed bonus on a once-a-day rotation.
This is the biggest positive I see from the changes as well. Yes my RAD income is going to be half of what it currently is in the short term but I only have to put in half the time/effort. If/when I get to higher level leadership tasks there's more RAD to be earned. It may never be as good as it was but I'm less of a slave to the game (optional as that may be).
I was looking at imvesting in some more adventurers but the prices shot up, now it seems I don't need to bother. What I have currently will probably be adequate and the interface for adding additional assets to tasks I find to be a pita anyway.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I was looking at imvesting in some more adventurers but the prices shot up, now it seems I don't need to bother. What I have currently will probably be adequate and the interface for adding additional assets to tasks I find to be a pita anyway.
Don't bother. Better to invest in more character slots, as I pointed out a few pages ago...
Don't u know, that by your words you harass players who have no time to spend ages ingame grinding. But prefer to build farm and get profit. They pay zen to get slots for chars, they spend time to lvl up professions and leveling up leadership can take lotsa time and effort.
To sum it all up, u appreciate raiders who still from poor mobs, and laugh at those who like to stay at peace and plow their "land" to get good harvest in time.
U have your point but it's dang wrong and selfish
Wrong and selfish? Sounds like you're just upset that you lost your effortless source of income for clicking a thing a few times a day. I'm not poor at all, and have spent money on this game (Not recently, but back when it was worth it).
You seem to think that I'm stating players should be forced to grind to make money. This isn't true. I'm saying that players who grind should get more AD than players who don't and I don't mean grinding leadership. I think that the optimum solution would be to get AD by playing or by taking out the credit card, with a minor side income provided from leadership.
And you don't seem to understand what "farming" is either. Farming is not leadership. No. Just no. Farming is something that requires actual work and time dedicated. (i.e farming RP drops from heroic encounters). You just want free money for doing nothing. That's why I'm happy about these changes, less free money for doing nothing.
As I've stated before, players seem to have the notion that they should be "entitled to free income just because they play the game". That's not how MMO's work. Hardcore players that play multiple hours every day should be richer and better geared than casuals. You should understand that's the way games and life works, and move on. You aren't contributing if you refuse to move past this blatantly false notion.
And accusing a poster of being selfish for what they've posted is never a good idea in an argument. All it does generally is provoke people
And you don't seem to understand what "farming" is either. Farming is not leadership. No. Just no. Farming is something that requires actual work and time dedicated. (i.e farming RP drops from heroic encounters). You just want free money for doing nothing. That's why I'm happy about these changes, less free money for doing nothing.
Getting a Leadership Farm up and running takes a lot of time, effort and investment. Especially time. The payout is measured in months, not days. Which is a hard thing for a lot of people to grasp, which is why at the end of the day very, very few people make the effort to run Leadership Farms.
So completely dissing the time and effort it takes to actually make a reasonable income on Leadership? Not cool.
Getting a Leadership Farm up and running takes a lot of time, effort and investment. Especially time. The payout is measured in months, not days. Which is a hard thing for a lot of people to grasp, which is why at the end of the day very, very few people make the effort to run Leadership Farms.
So completely dissing the time and effort it takes to actually make a reasonable income on Leadership? Not cool.
I don't consider leadership to farming, as overall, the time spent clicking is not comparable to the amount of time it takes actually farm anything in game
It's not even a matter of wanting something for nothing. Every aspect of this game is gated with AD, and time spent grinding for AD is time not spent enjoying the game for its own merits. If I've only got an hour available for gaming, and I know that means choosing between doing campaign stuff (a lot of which is well-constructed, with the exception of a few of the WoD quests) and PvPing for astral diamonds so I can actually complete the campaign tasks?
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I don't consider leadership to farming, as overall, the time spent clicking is not comparable to the amount of time it takes actually farm anything in game
So you're saying katamaster is not worthy of your time? Are you implying you are a better human being, being mercyful and all? Are you saying you are right, he is wrong, but like a forum version of gandhi , you will dismiss him without fighting? Are you a bonzo?
I am with ironzerg and AGAINST katamaster. I love my leadership army. They are actually just 2 alts so i don't know if i can really call them an army, but well...
I think the game must be played for fun. Not like a job where if you work more you earn more. Farming is wrong. Sounds like a job.
Play for fun.
Run leadership and professions as just another part of the game. Levelling leadership takes time and patience. I would not dismiss it as lazy or easy.
Both are important.
Nothing wrong with ad from leadership. It's a smart way to place yourself in a comfortable spot.
Farming like a job instead of playing for fun is, sorry, the nerdish and wrong way to play a mmorpg. Sounds like 'hey dude, you play 2 hours a day, but i will play 8 HOURS and farm all day like a slave. So take this! I win!'. May be a 20 toons leadership army to become a billionaire is wrong. But a few alts for sure and safe income? Nothing wrong with it.
Must find a balance where you play for fun and through smart management of professions, you make your in-game life, easier.
Nothing wrong with it.
Dismissing one part of the game, or the other, is wrong.
Remember: only a Sith deals in absolutes.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
And there must always be a balance to the Force.
Just like in game. There should be multiple avenues towards generating wealth, be it running dungeons, grinding mobs or doing professions. Just because people have different perspectives on how this should be achieved doesn't make them wrong.
Ultimately these boards should be about promoting a healthy discussion. The reality is we're not arguing with each other; we're presenting different perspectives to the Developers, who then read, digest and implement changes as they see fit in the game.
So you're saying katamaster is not worthy of your time? Are you implying you are a better human being, being mercyful and all? Are you saying you are right, he is wrong, but like a forum version of gandhi , you will dismiss him without fighting? Are you a bonzo?
I am with ironzerg and AGAINST katamaster. I love my leadership army. They are actually just 2 alts so i don't know if i can really call them an army, but well...
I think the game must be played for fun. Not like a job where if you work more you earn more. Farming is wrong. Sounds like a job.
Play for fun.
Run leadership and professions as just another part of the game. Levelling leadership takes time and patience. I would not dismiss it as lazy or easy.
Both are important.
Nothing wrong with ad from leadership. It's a smart way to place yourself in a comfortable spot.
Farming like a job instead of playing for fun is, sorry, the nerdish and wrong way to play a mmorpg. Sounds like 'hey dude, you play 2 hours a day, but i will play 8 HOURS and farm all day like a slave. So take this! I win!'. May be a 20 toons leadership army to become a billionaire is wrong. But a few alts for sure and safe income? Nothing wrong with it.
Must find a balance where you play for fun and through smart management of professions, you make your in-game life, easier.
Nothing wrong with it.
Dismissing one part of the game, or the other, is wrong.
Remember: only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Instead of saying "against katamaster", how about saying "against katamaster's ideas regarding the leadership changes". I really am a nice guy, ya know, no need to hate on me :P
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It is very likely I'll acquire more footmen and spread the blue dudes around. And they are very helpful for levelling.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I kindly remind people that there is no such thing as a "gap" between "haves and have-nots". The is a ridiculous idea and here's why:
Level 70 Toon with Tier 10 Gear and super-duper epictastic everything else versus the Newbie who just finished the tutorial and has nothing: what about all the people in-between? All the people who started last week? Or two weeks ago? or three? There is no gap. There is a fresh progression of people at every possible in-between level from level 1 all the way through to the level cap and beyond.
Now with the very idea of a "gap" between established and newbie players totally debunked, let's get back to the real meat of the debate, shall we?
The new changes to leadership profession are all good. So what if it takes a little bit longer to earn the same stuff? The fact is hat the studio must generate revenue, and this helps entice that through Zen market sales, not by much, but every little bit helps. I know: same old argument about revenue, blah, blah, blah.
My point being that I see these changes as a net-positive for all players. If the player adapts they will reap more, not less. If, at the same time, the developer is able to generate a little more revenue and slow-down script-kiddie farming (even if only temporarily) I see it all as a good thing.
I genuinely cannot see any 'detriment' to any player, including the girl who just finished her tutorial for the first time. Any argument of this type is a simple slight-of-hand redirect from the complainants true meaning: they won't get status quo. If it will take you that much longer to turn your super-duper-epic artifact into woozier-super-orgasmic artifact then deal with it. Fine other ways to get the resources (including AD) that you need. Nothing says you have to do it in three weeks, or even three months. and once you've reached that 'climax' of gear and level, then what? Will you begin your "there's no more content" arguments?
Just asking.
In real life it's "adapt or die". Such applies to Mod 6, just as it has applied to Mod 5, and Mod 4, and Mod... you get the idea.
Just because you say it's totally debunked doesn't make it true. I could possibly expand but it's hard to tell what's allowed here and what's not so I'll save my breath.
Jesus u so much wrong.
Don't u know, that by your words you harass players who have no time to spend ages ingame grinding. But prefer to build farm and get profit. They pay zen to get slots for chars, they spend time to lvl up professions and leveling up leadership can take lotsa time and effort.
To sum it all up, u appreciate raiders who still from poor mobs, and laugh at those who like to stay at peace and plow their "land" to get good harvest in time.
U have your point but it's dang wrong and selfish
So much talk about the poor being poorer, and those of us that have it better because we were here earlier. The price of most assets has dropped with time, not increased so the millions ad i spent making my purple assets could not even be regained if i chose to sell them now. Many of us leveled the other professions when there was no 'deep woods' version of the resource gathering... nuch harder and longer leveling path....
Oh, and have you tried to buy any t2 gear lately? While you cannot sell HV gear for the 500K or more it would draw for a single piece, you can now buy a full set for about 100K... many of us ended up farming the ad to buy the gear we needed after many many runs, before there were keys and you had to wake up on saturday morning to catch the DD event...
Kids these days have it soooo easy, when i was your age, i had to walk up Kunn in the lava... both ways.... My perspective is new players have it much easier... oh, and do you have a purple artifact that you had to grind but it is now obsolete? New players can take 'short cuts' because they can focus on the new shiney without the pile of hard earned old shineys sitting in a chest...
I really really really wish Cryptic would stop introducing so many different kinds of RP. now there are 3 more items i need to store in my bags (white/green/blue) and if they add these to the Dragon hoard enchant drop list it will be a total of 6 more (3 account bound and 3 non-bound).
Cyptic made the potion situation less complicated by only letting you have 1 potion/elixir active at a time and 1 food buff, and both attribute potions (4 potions you need to carry max assuming you have found the potion type you prefer).
However they keep adding more and more types of RP, thus needlessly complicating decisions we make, our ability to store items etc etc. This also means the prices of all RP will be slower to drop since production of RP in all it's forms will be spread out between even more drops.
Just give us peridots and sapphires and change aquamarines to be 2500 if you really want to have a 2500 RP option drop, otherwise leave aquas alone at 1500 (b/c honestly changing it would be foolish due to mass buyout that would happen.... but better in the long run i guess, and the people that do get screwed over can live with it... i know, you can remove all the aqua's from the AH before you make the announcement, everyone wins then
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
With all due respect....I really want to explain to you that your biggest error in this is: THERE IS NO WAY TO EARN MONEY IN THIS GAME ANYMORE.
Just to get this out straight: Im most likely one of the players in this game who has the most ingame time. I play a lot, I am stay-at-home woman for health reasons, so... You would think that since i play this much and really know what most things on AH costs/things that can be farmed/dropped are worth, I would take my sweet time and earn ****loads.
Unfortunately this is not the case.
I have played for 14 months now. 8-14 hours a day with some expeptions ofc. (Feel free to remark any looser-get-a-life-comment, but bear in mind, i didnt ask for healt-issues, and quite frankly, I wont care. Id rather be one that play a lot than one that spend the whole paycheck on buying ingame happiness and then cannot afford the rent and elictricity)
Until this day I have never - and then I mean never - gotten a drop that is concidered high value. The only good income I got was when gear was worth AD, so I would go on split runs in CN etc. This was my income. If it was NOT split runs, I would not win a roll.
This repeated itself when the oh so holy artifact belts came into the game.
I watched people around me who played FAR less than me log in, get their daily ton of belts and off they went. When a friend told me he had earned 80 mill AD "the last months" I was on the verge of utter madness. He didnt bother with leadership anymore, he said. Well, good for you.
8-14 hours a day grinding for belts, books, whatnot to earn something. Never happened.
Then WoD came. Endless griding, 40-60 dragonkills a day. I never saw a belt, and absolutely never any cloak from encounter.
Not until the prices became patetic. Then the belts started to drop by the numbers. (10k for a belt, yes, I can retire now..)
Altho, even tho I have done so much encounters I could puke, I still to this day have never gotten a cloak. Because that is worth something, you see, cant have that happen.
And the "fun" part - the only belts that drop are the most crappy ones. The Dex belts that are worth a little more - never seen one. The RNG in this game is completely and utterly screwed up.
If I was to "work more for my AD" I guess I would have to move home to mommy and have her make me food and bring me a pot to do my business in, and ofc stop sleeping all together.
I can also add; Tiamat. Needless to say how many times I have slapped her around. Artifact? Where? nop... Dragon eggs..? Rarely.
So, that leaves me where, exactly. Where and how do I earn my AD?
I have invested in character slots. I have gotten the campaigns up on 4 of them and I acctually run around in Shar on 4 toons a day to make Fey blessings to sell (or use as refinement). And I take every node I see, cause even the small amounts are worth something, so hey, lets sell a few pelts and vitriols.
I send unbound epics around on my toons to try to even out the rough AD, and on my main i ofc do dailies and dont need leadership - so I make materials to sell.
This is how low some must go.
So. I have BiS (ofc that will change in Mod6, since im not going down this road one more time investing even more money, time and hell on something Devs said would not happen, good lying there) I have gotten that from small numbers by selling patetic things for 1k and 5k etc.
But; IF I HAD NOT HAD AN ARMY OF LEADERSHIPDUDES as you so splendidly explains it I WOULD STILL BE RUNNING AROUND WIHT POOPGEAR. Caps intended as I would like to yell a littlebit.
But I have worked my *** off. I have gotten nothing free. I have bought a small amount of zen, but im a beliver in working for your things, so not bought much, and frankly, not all of us have mastered the skill to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gold if that were the case, I would start eating a lot more beans. (And the prices on zenmarket is to rediciolus anyway, i could buy a x-box for the sum of a coalward, for real??)
I even bought the dragonborn pack using Zen exchange. That hurt.
This being said: TO REALLY MAKE GOOD AD IN LEADERSHIP YOU NEED TO LOG IN MORE THAN ONCE A DAY.
I max out my 24k refinement on almost all toons daily (21 toon) with 3 blue, 3 green and rest white assets - on all toons. I dont have heroes. I plan my leadership. I know how to get the most out of it. I plan the things I start up concidering; when will I go to bed tonight? When does this need to finish? Yea, call me patetic, but hey, I got the time. Altho Id rather done something else.
But since i do NOT use any professionbot, my days are like this: I play most of the day, and I have gateway up all day. Im tabbing out litterary once a hour to fix things for a few minutes, cause one toon is making that and one this etc, and it dont do itself. I even log in to swordcoast adventures to get my free roll every day on all toons - cause I can turn that into AD too. I got a trick concerning the free roll I wont even share here to make just a few more hundred AD, thats how geek I am. (no, for the luv, its no exploit, its just a little secret...)
Is this really not concidered - working for your ritches? Am I a lazy casual player, then, as you say?
Now, I KNOW im not the only one in my shoes. There are some accounts who are eternally cursed and will never get a drop. There has been posts. While others get discustingly amounts that they really dont deserve compared to the little time they invest.
And then ofc have the "dignity" to tell you that "you need to farm more, you spend to much time on gateway" Eh Lul? Ok.
Well.
Point here is: You are mistaken in your logic. Some of us dont roll d20 on our every move. Some of us are doomed to get nothing. And some of us choose to pay no real money, or, like me, a littlebit money and work for the rest (getting squat in return, mind you, thats how it feels.)
The RNG in this game is blowing my mind away, and I can tell you, this is FAR from the only MMO i have played.. One account cant have zero drop with nonstop farming through two whole modules, while others log in for 30 min and get a belt or two every day. Its something behind this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, im pretty sure, but tahts for another discussion.
The next mod gives more potential for selling things, you say? Earning things to sell? Heh... yea. First of all, things must drop. As you might have understood by now (hopefully...) not all of us have this luck. A HE dont give 100% chance to drop a valuable.
And quite frankly, to ever have a chance at getting anything geared up in this game, RP really isnt the thing you wanna sell. As it is now, the only thing (almost, you get my point here hopefully) you need AD for this days anyway is RP.
So, before you so blizzfully tell the world that they must invest more time and effort... Do what I did. Take a round to talk to people, ask then how they earn AD, ask what they have gotten as drops, ask them how much time they invest.
in the end of it all you can be pretty sure - epic gear in this game is worth less than the salvage. I am salvaging vizier chests.. and HP setitems...It is utter and terribly saddening.
As a finish to this rant I wanna say, there is one tiny portion of what you said I agree on. Let me just see if i find it. Ah, there:
""Leadership should be a supplement to AD gain, not the main source of it.""
It might be the only sentence I can approve of. The words before and after that sentence - not so much.
It SHOULD not be the only source of income. But for some it is exactly what it has to be - and not by choise. And lets also add: The way this game has turned out concerning economy - how can you otherwise earn AD unless you have one of those R20 every day-accounts?
EDIT: In the annoyance I forgot to say: The leadership changes is all ok, dont see any huge problems, wont affect the income by a lot. So that is ok `ish. What my humble opinion is here is how you take your attitude to try to tell people that they dont invest time and effort and resolve to leadership. It is downgrading. You aware how much investment it is to buy so many toonslots and assets? Or doesnt it count in your calculations?
Most of what you said is exactly why there is a big gap. Sure you had to pay 500k for gear, but at the same time you could have farmed 3-4 pieces to sell and made 2 million. What can you farm now and make that kind of AD? Its not really possible without being extremely lucky. Also new players missed out on when coal wards were common from invoking chest. I know several people who had 30-40+ unbound when they changed and the price jumped to about 500k each. Something that was common back in the day.
But on the topic of leadership changes, I think this is a good move. New missions that give rp is a bonus, missions that give more RAD on a longer timer is a bonus. It just means that you only have to check your alts once a day instead of twice. That saves a lot of time in the end. Getting away from having RADs for even more RP would be a good thing. That would allow people to directly get RP easier.
This is the biggest positive I see from the changes as well. Yes my RAD income is going to be half of what it currently is in the short term but I only have to put in half the time/effort. If/when I get to higher level leadership tasks there's more RAD to be earned. It may never be as good as it was but I'm less of a slave to the game (optional as that may be).
I was looking at imvesting in some more adventurers but the prices shot up, now it seems I don't need to bother. What I have currently will probably be adequate and the interface for adding additional assets to tasks I find to be a pita anyway.
Don't bother. Better to invest in more character slots, as I pointed out a few pages ago...
Wrong and selfish? Sounds like you're just upset that you lost your effortless source of income for clicking a thing a few times a day. I'm not poor at all, and have spent money on this game (Not recently, but back when it was worth it).
You seem to think that I'm stating players should be forced to grind to make money. This isn't true. I'm saying that players who grind should get more AD than players who don't and I don't mean grinding leadership. I think that the optimum solution would be to get AD by playing or by taking out the credit card, with a minor side income provided from leadership.
And you don't seem to understand what "farming" is either. Farming is not leadership. No. Just no. Farming is something that requires actual work and time dedicated. (i.e farming RP drops from heroic encounters). You just want free money for doing nothing. That's why I'm happy about these changes, less free money for doing nothing.
As I've stated before, players seem to have the notion that they should be "entitled to free income just because they play the game". That's not how MMO's work. Hardcore players that play multiple hours every day should be richer and better geared than casuals. You should understand that's the way games and life works, and move on. You aren't contributing if you refuse to move past this blatantly false notion.
And accusing a poster of being selfish for what they've posted is never a good idea in an argument. All it does generally is provoke people
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Getting a Leadership Farm up and running takes a lot of time, effort and investment. Especially time. The payout is measured in months, not days. Which is a hard thing for a lot of people to grasp, which is why at the end of the day very, very few people make the effort to run Leadership Farms.
So completely dissing the time and effort it takes to actually make a reasonable income on Leadership? Not cool.
I don't consider leadership to farming, as overall, the time spent clicking is not comparable to the amount of time it takes actually farm anything in game
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We'll just have to agree to disagree.
I'm fine with that :P
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So how I feel like this forum just unlocked an achievement.
*BING*
[Differences Resolved Amicably]
Because it's rare. Most people appear to prefer resolving issues with shouting cannons, profanity, and other flames at ten paces.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Let the four horsemen now ride.
I think we should get in-game titles for this too XD
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Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
So you're saying katamaster is not worthy of your time? Are you implying you are a better human being, being mercyful and all? Are you saying you are right, he is wrong, but like a forum version of gandhi , you will dismiss him without fighting? Are you a bonzo?
I am with ironzerg and AGAINST katamaster. I love my leadership army. They are actually just 2 alts so i don't know if i can really call them an army, but well...
I think the game must be played for fun. Not like a job where if you work more you earn more. Farming is wrong. Sounds like a job.
Play for fun.
Run leadership and professions as just another part of the game. Levelling leadership takes time and patience. I would not dismiss it as lazy or easy.
Both are important.
Nothing wrong with ad from leadership. It's a smart way to place yourself in a comfortable spot.
Farming like a job instead of playing for fun is, sorry, the nerdish and wrong way to play a mmorpg. Sounds like 'hey dude, you play 2 hours a day, but i will play 8 HOURS and farm all day like a slave. So take this! I win!'. May be a 20 toons leadership army to become a billionaire is wrong. But a few alts for sure and safe income? Nothing wrong with it.
Must find a balance where you play for fun and through smart management of professions, you make your in-game life, easier.
Nothing wrong with it.
Dismissing one part of the game, or the other, is wrong.
Remember: only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Just like in game. There should be multiple avenues towards generating wealth, be it running dungeons, grinding mobs or doing professions. Just because people have different perspectives on how this should be achieved doesn't make them wrong.
Ultimately these boards should be about promoting a healthy discussion. The reality is we're not arguing with each other; we're presenting different perspectives to the Developers, who then read, digest and implement changes as they see fit in the game.
Instead of saying "against katamaster", how about saying "against katamaster's ideas regarding the leadership changes". I really am a nice guy, ya know, no need to hate on me :P
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Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
It's an open forum. But there better be chicken wings, too. With ranch.
You say that like it's a bad thing.