Collect Taxes seems to be gone...not sure what those maps are good for at all now
I saw it, perhaps you already had the task working? When you have 3 leadership tasks working, those tasks won't appear until after a short delay after claiming those tasks.
What? the Leadership changes have just been out on Preview a couple of days ago and you already boosted your leadership to level 25? Let me remind you from level 20 to 21 alone you need almost 40k xp and no tasks level 20 and below give you more than 120xp each. I think everybody wants to be level 25 on Preview so they can test out the changes, maybe you can give us a hint on how to get to level 25 overnight.
I am not ranting. In fact, I am not new and not one of the have-nots, sorry to disappoint you. I am just giving my opinions on why this is bad to the newbies and the economy, not that I am a newbie and these changes will affect me a lot.
There's ways on preview: 1) Copy a character with heroes multiple times and mail those heroes to one character to get 18 heroes. 3) Work all tasks with 2 heroes each. 3) Rush those tasks with AD.
. I think everybody wants to be level 25 on Preview so they can test out the changes, maybe you can give us a hint on how to get to level 25 overnight.
You can use your AD to rush the tasks. I had a guild mate help me transfer AD from a few different copies on the Preview server. I was able to get to 25 in about an hour of clicking. Took maybe 10ish million AD to rush all the tasks to get to 25.
But I know where you're going with this. You think I'm lying. I'm not. Here's the screenshot from my character on the test gatewayL
Trust me, son. I've been through it. Tested it. Did the math. I know what I'm talking about.
It's also doable if you make a second account, I did that to transfer AD between copied characters.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Do you know how much xp is needed to go from level 20 to 25 and how much AD is needed? I probably don't have that much but it is good to know.
Yes. It's exactly 353,600 EXP to get to level 25. Or 200,000 EXP from 20 to 25. I don't know the exact number, but it took me between 8 and 10 million AD to rush everything. Since it was just "funny money" I wasn't really paying attention.
EDIT: To calculate it, the fastest way is "Train for the Protector's Tourney" for 500 EXP. Takes 8 hours. So you have to do that task 400 times. Rush costs are 4000 AD/hour.
Assuming you're doing it with 2 heros, that's 16,000 AD times 400 or 6.4 million AD. My costs were higher because I was doing less efficient tasks in order to collect and test the drop rate of the Refinement bags.
For completeness sake, it looks like the bag drops at 70% white/29% green/1% blue.
Yes. It's exactly 353,600 EXP to get to level 25. Or 200,000 EXP from 20 to 25. I don't know the exact number, but it took me between 8 and 10 million AD to rush everything. Since it was just "funny money" I wasn't really paying attention.
Only 8 to 10 million to rush everything? To me, it took 48k to 64k to rush a task that gave me 120xp. That translates to 400 AD per xp.
So... 200,000 xp x 400 AD = 80 million AD, using the low bound. And I don't think I want to spend time copying characters just for that since somebody (e.g. you) seemed to have already done that. I want to know often do you get higher qualify RP stones from the bags. Maybe those who have done these can tell based on just a small sample.
Only 8 to 10 million to rush everything? To me, it took 48k to 64k to rush a task that gave me 120xp. That translates to 400 AD per xp.
So... 353,600 xp x 400 AD = 141.44 million AD. And I don't think I want to spend time copying characters just for that since somebody (e.g. you) seemed to have already done that. I want to know often do you get higher qualify RP stones from the bags. Maybe those who have done these can tell based on just a small sample.
See my post above. It's 70/29/1 white/green/blue as best I can tell.
And rushing costs has nothing to do with the rewards. It's a flat 4k AD per hour rushed for every single task in the game.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Only 8 to 10 million to rush everything? To me, it took 48k to 64k to rush a task that gave me 120xp. That translate to 400 AD per xp.
So... 353,600 xp x 400 AD = 141.44 million AD. And I don't think I want to spend time copying characters just for that since somebody (e.g. you) seemed to have already done that. I want to know often do you get higher qualify RP stones from the bags. Maybe those who have done these can tell based on just a small sample.
That's why I suggest copying a bunch of heroes, or other asset peoples, as the less time it takes to complete a task, the less AD it takes. But hey, we've tested it and we're telling you like it is from our testings to help people understand who don't have the time or resources to do such testing in a short amount of time.
See my post above. It's 70/29/1 white/green/blue as best I can tell.
And rushing costs has nothing to do with the rewards. It's a flat 4k AD per hour rushed for every single task in the game.
I know rushing doesn't give better rewards. It would take more like 80-100 million AD rather, which I don't have. That's what I wanted to say...
And based on your sample (which I know is small), you get an average of 1100 RP per a 16 hour task. That's 68 RP per hour. It seems to be a little better reward than the current leadership task IF the price of RP remains unchanged at current level. However, if RP drops to half or below what it is now in Mod 6, then leadership rewards at level 25 is not more profitable than what we have now. That's just another catch-22 situation. If price of RP in mod 6 doesn't drop we are stuck with the same crisis in mod 5, if not more severe. If price of RP drops and gives a well needed relief on the price of RP then leadership beyond level 20 is not even worth the effort.
Sorry, I don't see it makes any difference under the current system in testing.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2015
Are the RP tasks and ADs tasks separate or in one package?
Are the RP tasks and ADs tasks separate or in one package?
From what I see, there is a level 22 task that gives a RP bag and a level 24 task that gives a RP bag plus some AD. There may or may not be some rare RP tasks, but I don't see any now.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I agree with the sentiment of the opening premise. This is not all doom and gloom. Leadership will still be a very useful profession. But I will take umbrage with this:
Hopefully this will help inflation, and bring prices down a bit!
Doubtful. Greater Marks of Potency are going to cost 100k AD no matter how much or how little RAD people are getting from leadership. The price of a Perfect (or Transcendent) enchantment that requires N number of Greater Marks of Potency will be a minimum of N*100000. Many things in the economy have prices that will not deflate because Cryptic sets a hard price on the items used as ingredients in the creation of other items. Already you can buy enchantments on the Auctions House for barely more than what it costs to make them. There's no way for prices to deflate on those items.
I don't really understand how anyone can look at the changes as being positive. They don't address the real problem, which is passive/solo farming play being more profitable to the player than active/group play. These changes aren't targeted properly, and they just further promote botting to counteract the nerfing. And with the addition of greatly increase income over the short term thanks to putting many more RP drops and profession bottlenecks into leadership it will only further exacerbate the problem.
What I predict is going to end up happening if this goes live as is, and I fully expect it will, a month or so after mod 6 launch the RP market will fall back down to where it was prior to the initial rush to upgrade to rank 12. Then it will rapidly fall some more, closer to where it was during the height of the dragon hoard botting as the bots/players all start hitting the higher leadership ranks. Which will require Cryptic to nerf leadership yet again, likely in the same ways they nerfed dragon hoard, lowering RP drop rate as well as making them bound. And the prevalence of "leadership armies" will only increase during that time, meaning they'll probably have to further nerf AD gain from leadership as well.
I suppose if someone at Cryptic is trying to make sure they keep their job, this is a good way to do it since it will increase the need for balancing nerfs. But I can't imagine it's good for the health of the game with the constant fluctuations of players finding overly effective ways of earning game income for free, then the developer having to yank the rug out from under them after they've invested their time and effort.
If the RP items remain unbound, it'll be a good thing. It will make leveling up equipment far more palatable. My AD's on them becoming bound to account prior to the mod hitting live.
Otherwise, I'm still wait and see on how this all plays out.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2015
So basically, I have to sacrifice my income further just the get a few RP. Sorry, but the ADs get you a lot further than some RP.
I don't really understand how anyone can look at the changes as being positive. They don't address the real problem, which is passive/solo farming play being more profitable to the player than active/group play.
I'm happy because the profit from solo/passive farming is being reduced. They aren't completely addressing it, but is progress for sure!
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited February 2015
I personally wouldn't enjoy Neverwinter as much as I do if leadership wasn't a way to make the needed in-game income to keep myself funded for maintaining my characters. I don't have a ton of time to spend working in game to afford things. Even STO has this as an alternative gameplay method with their Duty Officers.
In my opinion, there's nothing that really needs to be addressed with Leadership as it is now on Preview. It's an alternative way to advance one's characters in the game, especially for those who cannot log into the game and play/grind at the same time. Take this away and you alienate a lot of players who enjoy having alternative means to play and advance in an MMO due to things like disabilities, work, and other real life issues. Having this alternative method of advancing a character is one reason why Neverwinter and STO continue to be my main two played MMOs and is why I rarely play other MMOs that require you to spend all your time actually in game, grinding to no end.
I'm happy because the profit from solo/passive farming is being reduced. They aren't completely addressing it, but is progress for sure!
That's the thing though...it's actually going to have the opposite effect due to the addition of more RP/mark/profession drops. At least until the market completely drops out of those areas due to all the farming, which again will necessitate more nerfs since at least for RP we're talking about something they monetize.
The impact of the AD income nerf to those 3 tasks is only noticeable to the players who were only somewhat invested in running leadership, just enough to get to rank 20 but not enough to buy expensive assets and didn't cheat and use bot software The Destroy Enemy Camp nerf is the only significant one, and it's just a 25% nerf. For bots we're talking less than 15% less AD on characters with rank 20 leadership, and for players with lots of assets it just means devoting a couple more tasks to leadership daily. Which they'll probably be doing anyway thanks to the other changes.
I expect the impact of those new tasks though is going to be big, and I seriously doubt good for the developers or the players in the long run. But hey, I'm sure some botters will make tons of easy AD off it before it gets nerfed.
Don't Panic.
Okay, Panic.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2015
Time is what's the biggest nightmare in this game. It takes a while to make 1,000,000 ADs. Aside from RP, weapon/armor enchants cost a crapton, cause we don't have 50 coal wards on us and if we did then it's mighty suspicious. Pile on legendary companions, even more greater marks of potency, the game is going to be even more pricy now. I can't even keep up right now. Waiting a month to afford something is very enjoyable.
It discourages the use of a leadership alt army. I have always been against that type of play style. In my opinion, AD should be earned from playing the game, not by logging in at exact intervals certain times every day to click some buttons in a web browser.
Funny thing is that you are welcoming RP gained by leadership tasks, which also can be "farmed" by leadership armies. So ask yourself why you are against farming ADs using leadership armies but not against farming RP?
It's going to cut my income in half in the short term as I don't have assets of high enough quality to speed up the tasks to the point where I can do them twice a day as I do currently. It's another case where the rich get richer which is a problem I have with other areas of Neverwinter crafting, what I call purple tool syndrome.
Long term I'll see what impact it has on my actual play experience and character progression. Leadership and to a much lesser extent invoking are my primary sources of AD income and they're good because they're quick to do. They allow me to at least feel like I'm making 'progress' on the game when I don't have the time to play.
There's plenty of other mod 6 changes that are going to get me to re-evaluate what can can and want to acheive from playing Neverwinter.
What? the Leadership changes have just been out on Preview a couple of days ago and you already boosted your leadership to level 25? Let me remind you from level 20 to 21 alone you need almost 40k xp and no tasks level 20 and below give you more than 120xp each. I think everybody wants to be level 25 on Preview so they can test out the changes, maybe you can give us a hint on how to get to level 25 overnight.
I am not ranting. In fact, I am not new and not one of the have-nots, sorry to disappoint you. I am just giving my opinions on why this is bad to the newbies and the economy, not that I am a newbie and these changes will affect me a lot.
There is finish now button.. it's prev server by the way
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited February 2015
people have joy over peridot or minor resonance drop from leadership boxes.... mans do you really evaluating the numbers you need to refine gear to 80lvl? i think not ....
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[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Do you know how much xp is needed to go from level 20 to 25 and how much AD is needed? I probably don't have that much but it is good to know.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
You can use your AD to rush the tasks. I had a guild mate help me transfer AD from a few different copies on the Preview server. I was able to get to 25 in about an hour of clicking. Took maybe 10ish million AD to rush all the tasks to get to 25.
But I know where you're going with this. You think I'm lying. I'm not. Here's the screenshot from my character on the test gatewayL
Trust me, son. I've been through it. Tested it. Did the math. I know what I'm talking about.
Nope, it's still there. No changes to it.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
Yes. It's exactly 353,600 EXP to get to level 25. Or 200,000 EXP from 20 to 25. I don't know the exact number, but it took me between 8 and 10 million AD to rush everything. Since it was just "funny money" I wasn't really paying attention.
EDIT: To calculate it, the fastest way is "Train for the Protector's Tourney" for 500 EXP. Takes 8 hours. So you have to do that task 400 times. Rush costs are 4000 AD/hour.
Assuming you're doing it with 2 heros, that's 16,000 AD times 400 or 6.4 million AD. My costs were higher because I was doing less efficient tasks in order to collect and test the drop rate of the Refinement bags.
For completeness sake, it looks like the bag drops at 70% white/29% green/1% blue.
Only 8 to 10 million to rush everything? To me, it took 48k to 64k to rush a task that gave me 120xp. That translates to 400 AD per xp.
So... 200,000 xp x 400 AD = 80 million AD, using the low bound. And I don't think I want to spend time copying characters just for that since somebody (e.g. you) seemed to have already done that. I want to know often do you get higher qualify RP stones from the bags. Maybe those who have done these can tell based on just a small sample.
That enemy camp has been destroyed so many times now, finally the enemy wised up and made it a little bit harder for it to be destroyed.
See my post above. It's 70/29/1 white/green/blue as best I can tell.
And rushing costs has nothing to do with the rewards. It's a flat 4k AD per hour rushed for every single task in the game.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I know rushing doesn't give better rewards. It would take more like 80-100 million AD rather, which I don't have. That's what I wanted to say...
And based on your sample (which I know is small), you get an average of 1100 RP per a 16 hour task. That's 68 RP per hour. It seems to be a little better reward than the current leadership task IF the price of RP remains unchanged at current level. However, if RP drops to half or below what it is now in Mod 6, then leadership rewards at level 25 is not more profitable than what we have now. That's just another catch-22 situation. If price of RP in mod 6 doesn't drop we are stuck with the same crisis in mod 5, if not more severe. If price of RP drops and gives a well needed relief on the price of RP then leadership beyond level 20 is not even worth the effort.
Sorry, I don't see it makes any difference under the current system in testing.
From what I see, there is a level 22 task that gives a RP bag and a level 24 task that gives a RP bag plus some AD. There may or may not be some rare RP tasks, but I don't see any now.
Protect Magical Goods is for an Enchantment Refinement Bag (Thaumaturge Stones)
Guard Clerics is for an Artifact Refinement Bag
Guard Young Noble is for Artifact Equipment Refinement Bag (Resonant Stones)
The green chests are the new Leadership boxes. (Enchanted Coffer)
What's the battle cultist green chest? Also, why is it green? Destroy camp gave a blue chest.
Doubtful. Greater Marks of Potency are going to cost 100k AD no matter how much or how little RAD people are getting from leadership. The price of a Perfect (or Transcendent) enchantment that requires N number of Greater Marks of Potency will be a minimum of N*100000. Many things in the economy have prices that will not deflate because Cryptic sets a hard price on the items used as ingredients in the creation of other items. Already you can buy enchantments on the Auctions House for barely more than what it costs to make them. There's no way for prices to deflate on those items.
What I predict is going to end up happening if this goes live as is, and I fully expect it will, a month or so after mod 6 launch the RP market will fall back down to where it was prior to the initial rush to upgrade to rank 12. Then it will rapidly fall some more, closer to where it was during the height of the dragon hoard botting as the bots/players all start hitting the higher leadership ranks. Which will require Cryptic to nerf leadership yet again, likely in the same ways they nerfed dragon hoard, lowering RP drop rate as well as making them bound. And the prevalence of "leadership armies" will only increase during that time, meaning they'll probably have to further nerf AD gain from leadership as well.
I suppose if someone at Cryptic is trying to make sure they keep their job, this is a good way to do it since it will increase the need for balancing nerfs. But I can't imagine it's good for the health of the game with the constant fluctuations of players finding overly effective ways of earning game income for free, then the developer having to yank the rug out from under them after they've invested their time and effort.
Okay, Panic.
Otherwise, I'm still wait and see on how this all plays out.
I'm happy because the profit from solo/passive farming is being reduced. They aren't completely addressing it, but is progress for sure!
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In my opinion, there's nothing that really needs to be addressed with Leadership as it is now on Preview. It's an alternative way to advance one's characters in the game, especially for those who cannot log into the game and play/grind at the same time. Take this away and you alienate a lot of players who enjoy having alternative means to play and advance in an MMO due to things like disabilities, work, and other real life issues. Having this alternative method of advancing a character is one reason why Neverwinter and STO continue to be my main two played MMOs and is why I rarely play other MMOs that require you to spend all your time actually in game, grinding to no end.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Reducing income overall is not progress if there's nothing to promote active play... Obviously we still have to see what else is to come.
That's the thing though...it's actually going to have the opposite effect due to the addition of more RP/mark/profession drops. At least until the market completely drops out of those areas due to all the farming, which again will necessitate more nerfs since at least for RP we're talking about something they monetize.
The impact of the AD income nerf to those 3 tasks is only noticeable to the players who were only somewhat invested in running leadership, just enough to get to rank 20 but not enough to buy expensive assets and didn't cheat and use bot software The Destroy Enemy Camp nerf is the only significant one, and it's just a 25% nerf. For bots we're talking less than 15% less AD on characters with rank 20 leadership, and for players with lots of assets it just means devoting a couple more tasks to leadership daily. Which they'll probably be doing anyway thanks to the other changes.
I expect the impact of those new tasks though is going to be big, and I seriously doubt good for the developers or the players in the long run. But hey, I'm sure some botters will make tons of easy AD off it before it gets nerfed.
Okay, Panic.
Funny thing is that you are welcoming RP gained by leadership tasks, which also can be "farmed" by leadership armies. So ask yourself why you are against farming ADs using leadership armies but not against farming RP?
Where's the difference?
It's going to cut my income in half in the short term as I don't have assets of high enough quality to speed up the tasks to the point where I can do them twice a day as I do currently. It's another case where the rich get richer which is a problem I have with other areas of Neverwinter crafting, what I call purple tool syndrome.
Long term I'll see what impact it has on my actual play experience and character progression. Leadership and to a much lesser extent invoking are my primary sources of AD income and they're good because they're quick to do. They allow me to at least feel like I'm making 'progress' on the game when I don't have the time to play.
There's plenty of other mod 6 changes that are going to get me to re-evaluate what can can and want to acheive from playing Neverwinter.
There is finish now button.. it's prev server by the way