The positives of the leadership changes

katamaster81899

A lot of people are raging because of these leadership changes. I find this rather amusing. The changes to leadership are only a good thing, from what I can tell. It puts players on a more level playing field in ratio to time committed

First, let's talk about the changes that happened, one at a time:

- Destroy enemy camps is now a 16 hour task, meaning it can only be run once a day without a whole lot of expensive assets. This is good. It discourages the use of a leadership alt army. I have always been against that type of play style. In my opinion, AD should be earned from playing the game, not by logging in at exact intervals certain times every day to click some buttons in a web browser. This way, the hardcore players make more AD because they play more often, and casual players make less AD for not playing as often. This is the way it should be. In no game should a profession allow casual players to make the same amount of income as a hardcore player.

- Addition of RP gathering tasks. Yes. Yes. Thank you SO much. While I am against the whole concept of RP, this is progress to making it acceptable. Now, casual players have some source of AD, while hardcore players get even more RP then the casuals by playing the game, as RP also drops in game Mod 6. This change is ideal. My only complaint is that you can only get RP from leadership once it is past rank 20, and new players will not be able to reach that boundary quickly. Perhaps lesser RP gathering tasks should be added throughout the tree. I think that would be the ideal solution

The only reason people are complaining is because the lazy method of earning AD has been removed. Leadership should be a supplement to AD gain, not the main source of it. I do not think that was ever its intention, and I'm glad they are fixing it. Hopefully this will help inflation, and bring prices down a bit!


Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not some poor ****, with a lesser vorp, and green gear. I've been playing over a year, have 9 chars running leadership, and make about 50-60k daily from it updating professions once daily. And anyone who has been around a long time knows how well CN weapons sold all the way through the end of mod 3/beginning of mod 4. Dungeons used to be farmable. Even T2s.

mehguy138

katamaster81899 wrote: »

In my opinion, AD should be earned from playing the game, not by logging in at exact intervals certain times every day to click some buttons in a web browser.

How?
(10char)

katamaster81899

mehguy138 wrote: »

How?
(10char)

In mod 6, farming unbound RP from Heroic Encounters, hopefully dungeons drops designed in a similar way to the CN loot system. That will only work if the new dungeons are really challenging and require skill and time to complete though

mehguy138

katamaster81899 wrote: »

In mod 6, farming unbound RP from Heroic Encounters, hopefully dungeons drops designed in a similar way to the CN loot system. That will only work if the new dungeons are really challenging and require skill and time to complete though

Do you really believe that? I'm all for obtaining AD through farming and selling gear/crafting materials, but I'm absolutely sure it will be as always - items valuable for a week or two and then drop in prices to oblivion.

I can't say if these leadership changes are good or bad, they are just changes, affecting some players more, some less. RP items is a good thing, but considering the amount of refining levels added to the game....

thedemien

katamaster81899 wrote: »

In mod 6, farming unbound RP from Heroic Encounters, hopefully dungeons drops designed in a similar way to the CN loot system. That will only work if the new dungeons are really challenging and require skill and time to complete though

Dungeons are not. Same boring no sweat run. With good enough team including "fresh" OP - VT takes 11 minutes. There was a thread somewhere.

It will be 11k items in a week. Same as "new" belt - useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Some stuff will be valueble sure. Most will be cheap and fairy easy to grind.

HE are based on RND - so you will see something really good once in a blue moon.

charononus

katamaster81899 wrote: »

A lot of people are raging because of these leadership changes. I find this rather amusing. The changes to leadership are only a good thing, from what I can tell. It puts players on a more level playing field in ratio to time committed

First, let's talk about the changes that happened, one at a time:

- Destroy enemy camps is now a 16 hour task, meaning it can only be run once a day without a whole lot of expensive assets. This is good. It discourages the use of a leadership alt army. I have always been against that type of play style. In my opinion, AD should be earned from playing the game, not by logging in at exact intervals certain times every day to click some buttons in a web browser. This way, the hardcore players make more AD because they play more often, and casual players make less AD for not playing as often. This is the way it should be. In no game should a profession allow casual players to make the same amount of income as a hardcore player.

- Addition of RP gathering tasks. Yes. Yes. Thank you SO much. While I am against the whole concept of RP, this is progress to making it acceptable. Now, casual players have some source of AD, while hardcore players get even more RP then the casuals by playing the game, as RP also drops in game Mod 6. This change is ideal. My only complaint is that you can only get RP from leadership once it is past rank 20, and new players will not be able to reach that boundary quickly. Perhaps lesser RP gathering tasks should be added throughout the tree. I think that would be the ideal solution

The only reason people are complaining is because the lazy method of earning AD has been removed. Leadership should be a supplement to AD gain, not the main source of it. I do not think that was ever its intention, and I'm glad they are fixing it. Hopefully this will help inflation, and bring prices down a bit!

Your optimism on getting ad from farming is disturbing as it contradicts all evidence.

katamaster81899

charononus wrote: »

Your optimism on getting ad from farming is disturbing as it contradicts all evidence.

How does it "contradict" all evidence?

fenrir4life

I understand that their intent is to fight AD bloating, but disproportionately harming people who don't have the schedule flexibility to play often does not induce them to spend money.

zebular

Actually, the changes are quite good on a couple levels. One being that higher tasks (21+) give more RAD than the <20 tasks and Two being that Leadership Chests drop more refining stones. Sure, there's a small reduction on a few current tasks but that is not an issue at all, not for me anyway, especially if one invests in Man-At-Arms, Adventurers, and Heroes. That investment will easily be made back and then you have revenue from that investment.

Add on top that you can sell those refining stones if you don't want them, or keep them for one's own refining, yeah the changes are actually making leadership better if one would just look past the very minor reductions on current tasks.

Leadership changes looking awesome to me.

katamaster81899

zebular wrote: »

Actually, the changes are quite good on a couple levels. One being that higher tasks (21+) give more RAD than the <20 tasks and Two being that Leadership Chests drop more refining stones. Sure, there's a small reduction on a few current tasks but that is not an issue at all, not for me anyway, especially if one invests in Man-At-Arms, Adventurers, and Heroes. That investment will easily be made back and then you have revenue from that investment.

Leadership changes looking awesome to me.

This is exactly how I feel, but worded in a far better way! Leave it to Zeb to steal the words from my mouth XD

lewstelamon01

If you have green, blue, or purple assets, then the change will either hardly be noticed or not noticed at all. Higher AD gains for tasks and the ability to gain unbound RP from leadership are huge pluses that offset the relatively minor negatives. I'm not so religious at profession turnover that I usually get to do professions more than once daily as it is.

katamaster81899

fenrir4life wrote: »

I understand that their intent is to fight AD bloating, but disproportionately harming people who don't have the schedule flexibility to play often does not induce them to spend money.

This is the thing that concerns me, everyone seems to feel as though they should earn just as much AD as everyone else, even if they don't play as often. That doesn't make sense. Time is an asset. Return on investment. You need to understand these concepts to truly appreciate these leadership changes.

charononus

katamaster81899 wrote: »

How does it "contradict" all evidence?

That we will get dungeons etc that will be farmable for good ad like cn was. I don't see it happening.

healary

All those who said the reduction in rough AD from current tasks is not a concern (to them) all point to a couple of BIG IFs - IF they have better quality assets and IF they have already time invested in maxing a lot of alts. But what IF you are new and poor?

Also, those who said there would be better way of getting RP from dungeons, etc are purely speculative. We have seen nothing at all yet in Preview. Seeing is believing but we have nothing to see.

katamaster81899

healary wrote: »

All those who said the reduction in rough AD from current tasks is not a concern (to them) all point to a couple of BIG IFs - IF they have better quality assets and IF they have already time invested in maxing a lot of alts. But what IF you are new and poor?

Also, those who said there would be better way of getting RP from dungeons, etc are purely speculative. We have seen nothing at all yet in Preview. Seeing is believing but we have nothing to see.

If you are new and poor, you aren't going to have leadership maxed out for a while, so it isn't really relevant to you.

healary

katamaster81899 wrote: »

If you are new and poor, you aren't going to have leadership maxed out for a while, so it isn't really relevant to you.

That's the point. The new and poor are already behind in Mod 5 and they will be even more behind in Mod 6. When the gap between the haves and the have-nots keeps increasing, the economy will be in bad shape.

zebular

healary wrote: »

All those who said the reduction in rough AD from current tasks is not a concern (to them) all point to a couple of BIG IFs - IF they have better quality assets and IF they have already time invested in maxing a lot of alts. But what IF you are new and poor?

Also, those who said there would be better way of getting RP from dungeons, etc are purely speculative. We have seen nothing at all yet in Preview. Seeing is believing but we have nothing to see.

That's like saying because one person has purple heroes, everyone should have purple heroes for free. I worked for my heroes, as others did. Work for it, like others did and will continue to do so. It's a very minor drop in RAD for the average player anyway and if you're doing leadership so much that it is noticeable, it won't be once you get to 25 and invest in assets. You'll get there soon enough if you're working it that much anyway.

Furthermore, you could sell those added RP stones from the new leadership containers for more AD to help get you invested in better assets.

khimera906

I wish I could be more enthusiastic about the refining stones added to Leadership chests. Considering how much RP is needed for just one piece of artifact gear, will the RP we earn from Leadership make any noticeable difference? Does anyone know what kind of refining stones we get from the chests?
As for AD, I don't care. I do Leadership once or twice a day anyway.

healary

zebular wrote: »

That's like saying because one person has purple heroes, everyone should have purple heroes for free. I worked for my heroes, as others did. Work for it, like others did and will continue to do so. It's a very minor drop in RAD for the average player anyway and if you're doing leadership so much that it is noticeable, it won't be once you get to 25 and invest in assets. You'll get there soon enough if you're working it that much anyway.

Furthermore, you could sell those added RP stones from the new leadership containers for more AD to help get you invested in better assets.

It is not a matter of whether the others should have what you have. No, they should not have what they don't work for but it is a matter of whether they have a chance to get to work for the same things you have with the same efforts you spent.

Suppose in a country where everybody worked on their oil wells to become billionaires, you don't expect a new immigrant to jump into the rank of rich people overnight if they don't own any oil well. Now, if the policies on the oil business in that country change in a way that new businessmen have to invest more in better quality tools or get less in return they are going to live and invest their money in other countries.

zebular

healary wrote: »

It is not a matter of whether the others should have what you have. No, they should not have what they don't work for but it is a matter of whether they have a chance to get to work for the same things you have with the same efforts you spent.

Suppose in a country where everybody worked on their oil wells to become billionaires, you don't expect a new immigrant to jump into the rank of rich people overnight if they don't own any oil well. Now, if the policies on the oil business in that country change in a way that new businessmen have to invest more in better quality tools or get less in return they are going to live and invest their money in other countries.

You're still able to work for the same goals and currently can work at the same rate as everyone else and will be working at the same rate as everyone else when Mod 6 comes, based entirely on your effort, time, and resources, just like everyone else.

ironzerg79

healary wrote: »

It is not a matter of whether the others should have what you have. No, they should not have what they don't work for but it is a matter of whether they have a chance to get to work for the same things you have with the same efforts you spent.

Suppose in a country where everybody worked on their oil wells to become billionaires, you don't expect a new immigrant to jump into the rank of rich people overnight if they don't own any oil well. Now, if the policies on the oil business in that country change in a way that new businessmen have to invest more in better quality tools or get less in return they are going to live and invest their money in other countries.

This example doesn't make any sense because, unlike real life, there are ZERO barriers to entry for the new player when it comes to Leadership.

Do the same thing WE ALL did. Start leveling up Leadership. Earn some AD. Reinvest it in more character slots. Level more Leadership toons. Reinvest. Repeat.

All it takes is time. Within 3 months, you'll have your Leadership farm up and running, and you can keep growing it to your heart's content. In fact, I kind of think of it like another mini-game in Neverwinter, so in a perverse way, managing my Leadership alts is fun

My advice to anyone reading this who doesn't have a Leadership farm running...just take a step. That's the hardest part. It's easy to look at how long it'll take, and not even start. But think of it this way...if you've been hanging around Neverwinter for the last few weeks, complaining about how people earn "easy' AD with Leadership...had you started working on it yourself, you'd be well on your way.

And to the OP. Yes. For those of us who are actual players, the changes to Leadership are substantially positive, and should continue to enrich us.

healary

zebular wrote: »

You're still able to work for the same goals and currently can work at the same rate as everyone else and will be working at the same rate as everyone else when Mod 6 comes, based entirely on your effort, time, and resources, just like everyone else.

But you are already behind if you don't have what the others have and the opportunity costs of the new and have-nots will be higher than the haves. The new and poor in Mod 6 will be even poorer than the new and poor now. That's the key issue that caused a lot of concerns on the stability of the economy from Mod 4 to Mod 5. Now, that issue is getting even more significant. The AD sucking artifact gear are still there and there are new one that have to be refined from 0 RP. The grind is getting longer and longer - from level 60 - 70 seems to take up a great deal of time. Artifacts get a mystic rank and require a lot more AD to refine and there is even a 4th one added. Source AD is cut from leadership. No new source AD is even in testing.

In a nutshell, newbies in Mod 6 are going to be harder to progress than in Mod 5... Mod 6 is not doing anything but amplifying the key concerns in Mod 5.

zebular

healary wrote: »

But you are already behind if you don't have what the others have and the opportunity costs of the new and have-nots will be higher than the haves. The new and poor in Mod 6 will be even poorer than the new and poor now. That's the key issue that caused a lot of concerns on the stability of the economy from Mod 4 to Mod 5. Now, that issue is getting even more significant. The AD sucking artifact gear are still there and there are new one that have to be refined from 0 RP. The grind is getting longer and longer - from level 60 - 70 seems to take up a great deal of time. Artifacts get a mystic rank and require a lot more AD to refine and there is even a 4th one added. Source AD is cut from leadership. No new source AD is even in testing.

In a nutshell, newbies in Mod 6 are going to be harder to progress than in Mod 5... Mod 6 is not doing anything but amplifying the key concerns in Mod 5.

One is always behind what others have already worked for when starting to work for the same thing at a later date.

healary

ironzerg79 wrote: »

This example doesn't make any sense because, unlike real life, there are ZERO barriers to entry for the new player when it comes to Leadership.

Do the same thing WE ALL did. Start leveling up Leadership. Earn some AD. Reinvest it in more character slots. Level more Leadership toons. Reinvest. Repeat.

All it takes is time. Within 3 months, you'll have your Leadership farm up and running, and you can keep growing it to your heart's content. In fact, I kind of think of it like another mini-game in Neverwinter, so in a perverse way, managing my Leadership alts is fun

My advice to anyone reading this who doesn't have a Leadership farm running...just take a step. That's the hardest part. It's easy to look at how long it'll take, and not even start. But think of it this way...if you've been hanging around Neverwinter for the last few weeks, complaining about how people earn "easy' AD with Leadership...had you started working on it yourself, you'd be well on your way.

And to the OP. Yes. For those of us who are actual players, the changes to Leadership are substantially positive, and should continue to enrich us.

There is always 0 barrier to enter a profession but now there a bigger barrier to progress - you need better qualify assets to progress at the same pace than before.

ironzerg79

healary wrote: »

Source AD is cut from leadership. No new source AD is even in testing.

This isn't true. I boosted my Leadership up to 25 on test. From levels 1-19, the AD income is virtually unchanged. The biggest hit on AD was ONE level 20 task. But in order to get your Leadership farm going, LEVELING to 20 (now 25) is the biggest hurdle. And the time to take to level Leadership is just the same now as it was on day 1.

The real profit from Leadership starts at 20, and should build for all players up to level 25.

Players starting on day one in Module 6 aren't at any disadvantage when it comes to leveling Leadership.

So stop with the rants, and go get some facts.

rodrant64

I'm not looking forward to the long slog of leadership leveling (just go with all the max EXP tasks to go quicker but get no AD, or keep generating what AD I can but make it even slower), but it looks like once you get to 25 we'll probably get making even more AD than before. I haven't seen many of the new rare tasks yet but I've heard those will provide quite a bit of AD.

So the biggest inconvenience is going to be the leveling, but if Mod 6 can deliver on more AD revenue streams than just leadership (let's be honest, LS has been the one reliable AD generator for months now) then I'll be a happy camper.

ironzerg79 wrote: »

This isn't true. I boosted my Leadership up to 25 on test. From levels 1-19, the AD income is virtually unchanged. The biggest hit on AD was ONE level 20 task. But in order to get your Leadership farm going, LEVELING to 20 (now 25) is the biggest hurdle. And the time to take to level Leadership is just the same now as it was on day 1.

The real profit from Leadership starts at 20, and should build for all players up to level 25.

Players starting on day one in Module 6 aren't at any disadvantage when it comes to leveling Leadership.

So stop with the rants, and go get some facts.

That's excellent to know!

ironzerg79

healary wrote: »

There is always 0 barrier to enter a profession but now there a bigger barrier to progress - you need better qualify assets to progress at the same pace than before.

There is zero change to the experience gains in Leadership. Leveling from 1 to 20 is going to take the exact same amount of time for a person who started on April 25th, 2013 and for the person who starts on March 17th, 2015.

pointsman

rodrant64 wrote: »

I'm not looking forward to the long slog of leadership leveling (just go with all the max EXP tasks to go quicker but get no AD, or keep generating what AD I can but make it even slower), but it looks like once you get to 25 we'll probably get making even more AD than before. I haven't seen many of the new rare tasks yet but I've heard those will provide quite a bit of AD.

So the biggest inconvenience is going to be the leveling, but if Mod 6 can deliver on more AD revenue streams than just leadership (let's be honest, LS has been the one reliable AD generator for months now) then I'll be a happy camper.

Well it seems fairly straightforward to me:

- 3 slots for Destroy Enemy Camp
- 3 slots for the leveling task
- 3 slots for leveling another profession (jewelcrafting, tailoring, platesmithing, etc.)

The other leveling will finish first and so then you can put your whole resources into leveling leadership.

healary

ironzerg79 wrote: »

This isn't true. I boosted my Leadership up to 25 on test. From levels 1-19, the AD income is virtually unchanged. The biggest hit on AD was ONE level 20 task. But in order to get your Leadership farm going, LEVELING to 20 (now 25) is the biggest hurdle. And the time to take to level Leadership is just the same now as it was on day 1.

The real profit from Leadership starts at 20, and should build for all players up to level 25.

Players starting on day one in Module 6 aren't at any disadvantage when it comes to leveling Leadership.

So stop with the rants, and go get some facts.

What? the Leadership changes have just been out on Preview a couple of days ago and you already boosted your leadership to level 25? Let me remind you from level 20 to 21 alone you need almost 40k xp and no tasks level 20 and below give you more than 120xp each. I think everybody wants to be level 25 on Preview so they can test out the changes, maybe you can give us a hint on how to get to level 25 overnight.

I am not ranting. In fact, I am not new and not one of the have-nots, sorry to disappoint you. I am just giving my opinions on why this is bad to the newbies and the economy, not that I am a newbie and these changes will affect me a lot.

empalas

Collect Taxes seems to be gone...not sure what those maps are good for at all now

rodrant64

healary wrote: »

What? the Leadership changes have just been out on Preview a couple of days ago and you already boosted your leadership to level 25? Let me remind you from level 20 to 21 alone you need almost 40k xp and no tasks level 20 and below give you more than 120xp each. I think everybody wants to be level 25 on Preview so they can test out the changes, maybe you can give us a hint on how to get to level 25 overnight.

I am not ranting. In fact, I am not new and not one of the have-nots, sorry to disappoint you. I am just giving my opinions on why this is bad to the newbies and the economy, not that I am a newbie and these changes will affect me a lot.

Don't forget you can spend AD to finish tasks instantly. Have enough AD, you can pound out the EXP tasks to get to 25 in a hurry.

EDIT: On preview for testing purposes, no way that's even remotely close to worthwhile to do on live lol