I currently have 15 toons, and will have 17 once the pally is live. 10 of those are fully unlocked (lvl 20 leadership and 9 slots) and actively farm AD.
I only walk my alts (as I call it), once a day. So, the (insignificant) change to Destroy Enemy Camps is meaningless to me. What is very meaningful to me, however, is that I will now be able to - without inputs, do 3 destroy camps for 1600 each, then 3 whatever-its-called for 2000 each (also no expended inputs) and then the RP project x3 -again no inputs, every day, more than doubling my daily average per toon (which was somewhere between 8K-10K or so when averaged over the course of a week). Now, the daily average will be 10800 per toon as a base - more if I do other AD projects instead of RP ones, plus prayers, so just under 12K daily.
That will show a huge increase in my income, not a decrease. I see nothing, at all, wrong with the Leadership changes - if there's a negative, I don't see it. Yes, I get some people are less lazy about leadership tasks and reset them twice a day... this would be a reduction to them I suppose. But. Selfish? Yes: That's not me, so... *shrug* - I also don't think that's the vast majority of the player base. The complainers are a very very small minority in this case.
I don't consider leadership to farming, as overall, the time spent clicking is not comparable to the amount of time it takes actually farm anything in game
just to start Katana is on my friends list in game, however, i have to say this is purely a judgement call on what is 'playing' and what is not. While you imply just clicking on leadership is not playing yet farming (your definition as i consider leadership and other professions an means of farming as you are still playing the game though its interface) is, I have to ask you, if i parked my cw on a spawnpoint in shandahar or somewhere and just clicked my q key (steal time) every time a spawn appeared, is this farming? It takes me roughly 10 to 20 minutes to get through my professions when I log in, but I have sat my cw for the same time (sometimes I am playing clash of clans waiting on friends to finish something) in the above scenario and I make far more loot in the same time as it would take me to do my professions, but with much less effort. it takes 3 clicks to do professions and you need to decide what you are going to do, much more complex than just parking a spawn point and q key (and the respawn is close to the icd of my dragonhorde gems so I get rp.) But ultimatly, it is a judgement call on your part to say what is the 'right ' way to play the game, which is what you are doing. Hell if you simply play the ah market, you are still playing. But beer and chicken wings sounds good.
Destroy Enemy Camps = 1600 AD x 3 + 3 Blue chest
Battle Elemental Cultists = 2000 AD x 3 + 3 Enchanted Coffers
Escort Wizard's Seneschal = 500 AD x 3 + 3 Resonance bags (Switch to another Rare task if up)
Or
Protect Magical Goods market = 500 AD x 6 (if you have Man-at Arms to get it under 12hr) + Thaum Bag + Bandit Camp Clue
That's 12,300 AD/Day (or 13,800) compared to about 14,400 from a basic Leadership rotation now (6x1600, 6x400, 6x400). And you might only have to check your alts once a day, compared to twice.
So that's a far cry from "making half the AD" you were...maybe to start, but it's not the start I'm worried about. It's the finish.
Right. And in fact the value will exceed the old 14,400 AD/day with the 12,300 AD plus the goods from 3x Enchanted Coffers and 3x Bags. And having to only click through once a day for all that, rather than twice, is a huge positive.
Listen to the zerg - always a beacon of rationality and perspective.
Right. And in fact the value will exceed the old 14,400 AD/day with the 12,300 AD plus the goods from 3x Enchanted Coffers and 3x Bags. And having to only click through once a day for all that, rather than twice, is a huge positive.
Listen to the zerg - always a beacon of rationality and perspective.
The thing is that it will take extra time than the already long time to get to level 25. I mean who really didn't expect a level 25 task would allow more ad generation (though still less than 2x destroy enemy camps that you can do in the same time).
If you only do it once a day, you won't be harmed. If you have special assets that you don't use efficiently then you also won't be harmed. Otherwise I'd personally prefer it if the cap wasn't raised and it was kept the same. You'll lose some ad generation for a while, or you'll lose more ad generation if you sacrifice more to level up quicker just for a little extra ad and stones that are so-so.
the reason I got a full stable of adventurers is so it would be less than 12 hours a day to do destroy enemy camp, so I could comfotible craft 2 times a day, without having to time it to the seconds, or lose ground. Now I have to buy 42 heros, so that my crafting doesn't conflict with RL. Really annoying.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
the reason I got a full stable of adventurers is so it would be less than 12 hours a day to do destroy enemy camp, so I could comfotible craft 2 times a day, without having to time it to the seconds, or lose ground. Now I have to buy 42 heros, so that my crafting doesn't conflict with RL. Really annoying.
The ROI on buying 42 heroes? That would take you years to recoup.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
Right now at Hero price of 500K+ wow..
21million AD at least for 42 of them.
Extra 1600 AD per hero per day by running DEC twice.
312 days just to break even.
funny thing is that adventurers are sitting at 190k each now. 190k times 4 = 760k, makes it far more practical to buy heros instead of making them.
it depends on the size if your alt farming crew. With what I got I can get a new hero every several days. Its probably a better long term investment than spending all those ad on artifacts that will just be obsoleted regularly.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
funny thing is that adventurers are sitting at 190k each now. 190k times 4 = 760k, makes it far more practical to buy heros instead of making them.
it depends on the size if your alt farming crew. With what I got I can get a new hero every several days. Its probably a better long term investment than spending all those ad on artifacts that will just be obsoleted regularly.
Not really. Unless you already have 50 character slots filled, it's a better ROI to just unlock more slots and start more toons than invest in Heroes.
EDIT:
Key assumption: I'm checking Leadership twice a day.
So take your one hero. Right now, 650k on the AH. To get an extra 1600 AD a day. That's 407 days to recoup the cost.
I take an investment in 2 more character slots. 500 zen = 250k AD. I'm going to do this right, so I'll invest another 600k to get myself 12 man-at-arms to fill the 6 slots I know I can easily open on each toon. So 850k total.
Assume it takes about 60 days on not earning AD to get to 20. If you want to use another number, please feel free. At 20, worse case I'll get 3xDEC (4800) plus 6xSP (2400) or 7200 per character, for a total of 14,400 extra AD per day. So to recoup my initial 850k investment, that's about 60 more days, or 120 days total. In those extra 287 days, my investment earns an additional 4.1+ million AD.
BUT, in those extra 287 days I'm also leveling my toons up to 25 Leadership, which is substantially more profitable. Let's say I go all in on EXP, and forget about the small amount of AD I could also earn, to keep things simple.
6 slots, the best thing to do is Tactical Training (160 EXP and War Games 240 EXP) for 2400 EXP a day for level 20-21. That's roughly 17 days to 21. At 21, I unlock the 500 EXP task. So now I'm making 500 exp +240 exp 3 times, twice a day, or 4,440. Level 25 is another 160k exp away. 36 days. Total of 53 days and I'm at 25.
At 25 I can do 2000 x 3 and 1600 x 3 (ignore the tasks that give me an RP bag, to keep it simple). That's 10,800 a day times 2 or 21,600/day.
So adding it all up 120 days to 20, another 53 days to 25. So 173 days total. Or another 39 days to break even, 212 total. I'm at at least 4.2 million AD surplus with 2 level 25 toons, versus your ONE extra task at 1600 AD a day. So going forward, I'm earning 19,000 more AD/day than you at this point.
Over the next year, your investment returns about another 600k AD. 1.25 million total. Mine returns almost 8 million. Or 12 million since I made my investment.
So the ROI on your decision returns 192%. Mine returns 1412%.
EDIT2: Even if you have 50 slots, it would still be a better investment to just start a new account. Trade some assets over to unlock your extra slots and start a new leadership army. I can't imagine a scenario where investing in Heroes is ever worth it, save 2 to open up the extra profession slot.
Sorry mate, but this is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> theory all the way and a justification to monetize the game more, making it less F2P and more reliant on macro, yes macro transactions.
Let's go step by step!
PVE dungeons aren't rewarding, the loot is merely good to salvage it.
Only 2 dungeons are done by people, these are PK (mostly exploited runs) and eLOL by high GS, mostly elitist groups, where a normal human has rarely place. Saw some requirements for it in zone chat, where not only GS requirement was stated, but which kind of weapon enchantment would qualify.
Lord won't give AD.
PVP won't give awards and currently isn't rewarding and i don't see any future of development, since DEVs let PVP alone. So for most classes unplayable and no reward here also.
Many have chest loot problems, Wi Flag issues, bad RNG call it whatever we wish, where shall those get the AD or gear from? Sorry, but i see only option in the credit card or as many do it, hoards of bots.
I have to ask you and Cryptic- not literally, rather as a poetic question- will the hoard of running bots, exploding numbers of cheaters and exploiters be better? I think no.
Since you did a good advertisement for a very weak idea, just answer me one thing if you can mate, where shall a legit player get AD from, cause game is not a single bit rewarding and cheaters will find a way to get their ZEN or AD, of course with 3rd party applications.
So in my eyes this only punishes legit players and is a move towards a totally payed game. Would be more honest thing to stand up and say, ladies and gentlemen here is our new game model, sub fee, but this is only a covered op towards playing only by paying.
i used to do 500-600k every day when botters werent so common, refining stuffs and selling it.
nowaday is impossible to make ads without thinking about it with some brain or being an abuser able to sell stuffs cheaper than others.
i recently found a way to earn about 750k no rads in 4 days farming 3 hours a day...not the best but definitely something.
there are ways, what there is no more are burst incomes.
Sorry for the French print-screen, when I go back to preview gateway to take it in English the rare task was gone.
“He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.” ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
i used to do 500-600k every day when botters werent so common, refining stuffs and selling it.
nowaday is impossible to make ads without thinking about it with some brain or being an abuser able to sell stuffs cheaper than others.
i recently found a way to earn about 750k no rads in 4 days farming 3 hours a day...not the best but definitely something.
there are ways, what there is no more are burst incomes.
There's still "burst" incomes. Kessels comes to mind.
And think. In the Dev live steam "there is a reason" that they made the WOD area dragon derby drop T1 and T2. Soon we will be able to farm T1 and T2 gear again and sell that. CN even (maybe, not holding my breathe).
They had to do something, so they did it.
Leadership giving RP is awesome.
And just so I'm being completely transparent the first thing I did when I joined Beta was purchase 33 character slots and start crafting, took me about a week to figure out that Leadership was the way to go. I'm not upset about it. I think the upcoming changes are pretty awesome!
Now you invest 20 USD and you can buy a lot more than before, since the price of things has lowered, i think AD should not be gotten by having 10+ characters using leadership, it should be by playing and crafting, i do think professions needs to be reviewed, since only rank 2-3 items produce AD, you actually need to invest in mithral items before you see the income!!
Comments
Let's go get some beers and chicken wings, and we'll take up the discussion again after we get more updates.
I currently have 15 toons, and will have 17 once the pally is live. 10 of those are fully unlocked (lvl 20 leadership and 9 slots) and actively farm AD.
I only walk my alts (as I call it), once a day. So, the (insignificant) change to Destroy Enemy Camps is meaningless to me. What is very meaningful to me, however, is that I will now be able to - without inputs, do 3 destroy camps for 1600 each, then 3 whatever-its-called for 2000 each (also no expended inputs) and then the RP project x3 -again no inputs, every day, more than doubling my daily average per toon (which was somewhere between 8K-10K or so when averaged over the course of a week). Now, the daily average will be 10800 per toon as a base - more if I do other AD projects instead of RP ones, plus prayers, so just under 12K daily.
That will show a huge increase in my income, not a decrease. I see nothing, at all, wrong with the Leadership changes - if there's a negative, I don't see it. Yes, I get some people are less lazy about leadership tasks and reset them twice a day... this would be a reduction to them I suppose. But. Selfish? Yes: That's not me, so... *shrug* - I also don't think that's the vast majority of the player base. The complainers are a very very small minority in this case.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
just to start Katana is on my friends list in game, however, i have to say this is purely a judgement call on what is 'playing' and what is not. While you imply just clicking on leadership is not playing yet farming (your definition as i consider leadership and other professions an means of farming as you are still playing the game though its interface) is, I have to ask you, if i parked my cw on a spawnpoint in shandahar or somewhere and just clicked my q key (steal time) every time a spawn appeared, is this farming? It takes me roughly 10 to 20 minutes to get through my professions when I log in, but I have sat my cw for the same time (sometimes I am playing clash of clans waiting on friends to finish something) in the above scenario and I make far more loot in the same time as it would take me to do my professions, but with much less effort. it takes 3 clicks to do professions and you need to decide what you are going to do, much more complex than just parking a spawn point and q key (and the respawn is close to the icd of my dragonhorde gems so I get rp.) But ultimatly, it is a judgement call on your part to say what is the 'right ' way to play the game, which is what you are doing. Hell if you simply play the ah market, you are still playing. But beer and chicken wings sounds good.
Right. And in fact the value will exceed the old 14,400 AD/day with the 12,300 AD plus the goods from 3x Enchanted Coffers and 3x Bags. And having to only click through once a day for all that, rather than twice, is a huge positive.
Listen to the zerg - always a beacon of rationality and perspective.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
The thing is that it will take extra time than the already long time to get to level 25. I mean who really didn't expect a level 25 task would allow more ad generation (though still less than 2x destroy enemy camps that you can do in the same time).
If you only do it once a day, you won't be harmed. If you have special assets that you don't use efficiently then you also won't be harmed. Otherwise I'd personally prefer it if the cap wasn't raised and it was kept the same. You'll lose some ad generation for a while, or you'll lose more ad generation if you sacrifice more to level up quicker just for a little extra ad and stones that are so-so.
The ROI on buying 42 heroes? That would take you years to recoup.
Really? So long?
21million AD at least for 42 of them.
Extra 1600 AD per hero per day by running DEC twice.
312 days just to break even.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Ok, I'm gonna try that again: You don't need a Hero to run DEC twice per day.
funny thing is that adventurers are sitting at 190k each now. 190k times 4 = 760k, makes it far more practical to buy heros instead of making them.
it depends on the size if your alt farming crew. With what I got I can get a new hero every several days. Its probably a better long term investment than spending all those ad on artifacts that will just be obsoleted regularly.
Not really. Unless you already have 50 character slots filled, it's a better ROI to just unlock more slots and start more toons than invest in Heroes.
EDIT:
Key assumption: I'm checking Leadership twice a day.
So take your one hero. Right now, 650k on the AH. To get an extra 1600 AD a day. That's 407 days to recoup the cost.
I take an investment in 2 more character slots. 500 zen = 250k AD. I'm going to do this right, so I'll invest another 600k to get myself 12 man-at-arms to fill the 6 slots I know I can easily open on each toon. So 850k total.
Assume it takes about 60 days on not earning AD to get to 20. If you want to use another number, please feel free. At 20, worse case I'll get 3xDEC (4800) plus 6xSP (2400) or 7200 per character, for a total of 14,400 extra AD per day. So to recoup my initial 850k investment, that's about 60 more days, or 120 days total. In those extra 287 days, my investment earns an additional 4.1+ million AD.
BUT, in those extra 287 days I'm also leveling my toons up to 25 Leadership, which is substantially more profitable. Let's say I go all in on EXP, and forget about the small amount of AD I could also earn, to keep things simple.
6 slots, the best thing to do is Tactical Training (160 EXP and War Games 240 EXP) for 2400 EXP a day for level 20-21. That's roughly 17 days to 21. At 21, I unlock the 500 EXP task. So now I'm making 500 exp +240 exp 3 times, twice a day, or 4,440. Level 25 is another 160k exp away. 36 days. Total of 53 days and I'm at 25.
At 25 I can do 2000 x 3 and 1600 x 3 (ignore the tasks that give me an RP bag, to keep it simple). That's 10,800 a day times 2 or 21,600/day.
So adding it all up 120 days to 20, another 53 days to 25. So 173 days total. Or another 39 days to break even, 212 total. I'm at at least 4.2 million AD surplus with 2 level 25 toons, versus your ONE extra task at 1600 AD a day. So going forward, I'm earning 19,000 more AD/day than you at this point.
Over the next year, your investment returns about another 600k AD. 1.25 million total. Mine returns almost 8 million. Or 12 million since I made my investment.
So the ROI on your decision returns 192%. Mine returns 1412%.
EDIT2: Even if you have 50 slots, it would still be a better investment to just start a new account. Trade some assets over to unlock your extra slots and start a new leadership army. I can't imagine a scenario where investing in Heroes is ever worth it, save 2 to open up the extra profession slot.
nowaday is impossible to make ads without thinking about it with some brain or being an abuser able to sell stuffs cheaper than others.
i recently found a way to earn about 750k no rads in 4 days farming 3 hours a day...not the best but definitely something.
there are ways, what there is no more are burst incomes.
Sorry for the French print-screen, when I go back to preview gateway to take it in English the rare task was gone.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
and this is goooood
There's still "burst" incomes. Kessels comes to mind.
And think. In the Dev live steam "there is a reason" that they made the WOD area dragon derby drop T1 and T2. Soon we will be able to farm T1 and T2 gear again and sell that. CN even (maybe, not holding my breathe).
They had to do something, so they did it.
Leadership giving RP is awesome.
And just so I'm being completely transparent the first thing I did when I joined Beta was purchase 33 character slots and start crafting, took me about a week to figure out that Leadership was the way to go. I'm not upset about it. I think the upcoming changes are pretty awesome!