As a character "progresses" to level 61 they become far, far worse at everything but Armor Penetration (where they inexplicably get twice as good). I can't see how this would be working as intended. I've never seen a video game where characters get worse the more you advance them.
World of Warcraft did it each time the level cap went up. It's called a Gear Reset for a reason, you get reset back to being a weakling again and have to re-go the gear grind.
World of Warcraft did it each time the level cap went up. It's called a Gear Reset for a reason, you get reset back to being a weakling again and have to re-go the gear grind.
I think you don't quite address what abaddon is talking about. Numbers are way off but say at lv 60 2k crit give you 11% crit chance. Now, once you hit lv 61 that number dwindles and goes to 5%. No gear changed at all but you all of a sudden crit remarkably less. For example, my CW went from 52% crit to 44% (or something about that) just by leveling up. Sort of counter intuitive, innit.
new regeneration improves way to litle incoming heals so noone will have it anymore can u pls improve how much regenration improves incoming heals
new lifesteel is very bad and i think gwf , gf should have improved lifesteel just like tr got improved deflect atm this will give them some advantage and make them a bit better
new regeneration gives improves way to litle incoming heals so noone will have it anymore can u pls improve how much regenration improves incoming heals
new lifesteel is very bad and i think gwf , gf should have improved lifesteel just like tr got improved deflect atm this will give them some advantage and make them a bit better
I like the idea of having class specific life steal returns quite a lot!
the curves are way too off.
it s a plain hard nerf to everything.
i mean, i do think what i am saying... you dont even need gear anymore! it gives nothing.
you either have what you want from stat points or bye bye.
Gear right now is boosting only HP.
i lost all my recharge speed, damage bonus, critical chance etc
i thought the curves were changed in the sense that the diminuishing return was higher... no they just devided them with a factor 100.
something is off, it s easy to do errors with these things
Lifesteal:
the problem is hardly solved.
single target classes no longer will want a single point of lifesteal.
cw is still the one that can go full hp every 5 seconds.
Seems somewhat balanced on my HR.
will bring many complains in pvp when your enemy is almost died and suddently gain 15k hp out of nowhere just by luck.
Regen:
.... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... is it usefull in any way? i mean pots out of combat have no cd.
in combat regen does not work.
we have healing bonus as healing bonus.
you say it boost lifesteal.....when? once every ten minutes when lifesteal procs for 16k and i heal for 18k?
Are you trying to punish ppl for leveling up >.> Taking power away from the player might make the thrill of combat higher, and make us feel more distressed, but you could do it a better way. I mostly pvp, and there you need heals or you get one encounter with the enemy before you die, parties hardly work together well. Making us carry a cleric friend everywhere is impossible for most players. If you intend the paladin to fill this gap, it should just be better, not have to nerf the other classes to stand out.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2015
As an aside, things that give direct % increase are HUGELY valuable with these new stat curves, like the CW's draconic armour set bonus (direct +10% recharge speed).
Lifesteal:
the problem is hardly solved.
single target classes no longer will want a single point of lifesteal.
cw is still the one that can go full hp every 5 seconds.
[/QUOTE]
and cws are reason for life steel nerf and in the end it dont impact them at all since they have multi hit encounter and huge target caps i think cws should have reduced effectiveness of lifesteel in some way
As an aside, who chose these horrible colour schemes for posts, they are sore on the eyes looking utterly deplorable.
Feedback: Lifesteal.
After a bunch of experimentation on preview with my characters, I felt I should give some feedback on the changes to lifesteal. I personally dislike the way you have changed lifesteal, not because, "It makes you need a dc," or because, "It makes stuff too hard," but because the change doesn't achieve the desired result. What the change was intended to do was to prevent people from being invincible glass cannons who don't die due to their lifesteal not running out and to a degree, I admit, that has worked. However, it doesn't make this invincible lifesteal toon type inpossible to build, rather it limits them to particular classes and just changes the build such that it requires a toon with higher HP. My PVE CW, for instance, is 17k gs and has 40k HP. Yes, I know, I gave up a lot of damage for that kind of HP and that in the current game PVE is unnecessary, however, I like that level of tankiness. In the new content, he can just run around like a mad thing as always, with steal time on tab (I did this for testing purposes only ofc) and gather up huge crowds of ~30+ adds. Although I don't lifesteal all the time, my CW can pretty much guarentee lifesteal against that many targets and when each lifesteal hits for 10-15k, with such a large life pool my health never gets reduced far enough to actually die, rather it sporadically jumps all the way back up as my lifesteal triggers. In contrast, classes like GWF, which don't have such amazing AoE are hugely disadvantaged by this change, as they were never the true lifesteal problem in the first place and now they get almost no benefit from it. At the end of the day, if you want to make lifesteal builds unviable, this is not the way to do it, as they can still be created by the exact same classes where they were problematic in the first place and the people who build them this way will probably end up with stronger characters then they had before, due to being less glassy. If you really want to nerf lifesteal then add a cooldown to it, that way it more or less effects all classes equally, and its also completely unviable
Make sure you read this Crush. He/she is right on the money here.
This may simply require further information to clarify, but I was under the impression that once you hit lvl 61, your stats would be updated to the "NEW" Stat and Diminishing Returns Algorithms. With this being said, It was generally understood that Stats that were already Pushed to lets say, 4k Crit, that once on the new stat system, that we would expect an Increase of our Actual Crit %
But here is what seems to have actually Happened.
My @ lvl 60 stats before Lvling to 61
Lifesteal 1800 = 13% LifeSteal
Defense 2000 = 33% Damage Resistance
Crititcal 3600 = 37% Crit Chance (I could be off on this #)
What happened once i hit lvl 61?
Lifesteal 1800 = 4.3% LifeSteal
Defense 2000 = 15% Damage Resistance
Crititcal 3600 = 27% Crit Chance (I could be off on this #)
Does this mean, in Mod 6, you have decided to Nerf the worth of each Stat Point, so that when we are at lvl 70 with lvl 70 gear, that we would feel like we currently are ?
Is the plan to force players to Stack something really hard such as Crit at 5k points in order to get close to 40% crit rate?
this was a pretty terrible loss of survivability all in one shot for an SW
I know this is going to sound like we're being picky, but we have this posted in its own sticky as well as a moderator notice in each of the official feedback threads.
Please stick to the provided format for posting. Refrain from debating or arguing over another player's feedback. We need this as organized as possible for the devs to read, as the time that they are able to devote to reading our feedback is sparse among their other duties. Thank you.
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Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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new stats diminishing returns on 61+ will make campaigns and boons useless is there any plans to buff up how much stats they give or we wont have any reason to unlock boons and progress campaigns after this update
Lifesteal:
the problem is hardly solved.
single target classes no longer will want a single point of lifesteal.
cw is still the one that can go full hp every 5 seconds.
and cws are reason for life steel nerf and in the end it dont impact them at all since they have multi hit encounter and huge target caps i think cws should have reduced effectiveness of lifesteel in some way[/QUOTE]
CW already impacted by the change. What appens in ELOL, a yes the boss is a one target so aoe or not you still gain the very same.
i haven't pass lvl 61 yet on my test so i doesn't feel the reduction yet and it still have an effect. You act in comment like you want to destroy a class. The change done on lifesteal have not to purpose to destroy the feat but to make it more random. that the main point and on that it success. the life back lvl is still the very same but it no more ok i need life i activate my daily to get it all back.
It'S more random what ever the class you play CW's included,
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited January 2015
Feedback: How stats "feel" at 60 I haven't levelled my test character to 61 yet, so I haven't experienced the drop-off in stat effectiveness that others have written up. What I did do was take my Whisperknife Scoundrel to tangle with Venfithar. Both regeneration and life steal are modest on this character's gear. I didn't expect to beat the encounter alone, but thought it might provide some idea of my own sense of survivability. Yeah, I took damage, decidedly more damage than I normally would on a dragon heroic with someone else tanking. No, I didn't heal back to full every single time I landed a Flurry attack. But I did not take more damage than I could mitigate with ordinary major healing potions, and I didn't die, even after a random GWF showed up and started spinning the dragon around and messing up my rhythm (srsly, even on the test server?). I ended up getting Venfithar's health bar dented down by about a third in ten minutes, which I thought was pretty darned good, all things considered... and like I said, I didn't die.
Note: Venfithar's area is now level 52, and you receive notice when you exit the tunnel that you are fighting at level 52. I don't know if it makes an enormous difference in testing purposes since I believe the dragon and I should have still be on fairly equal footing, level-wise.
I used fewer healing potions soloing the first stage of the Cornered by Crabs encounter than I did on the dragon, because I was able to do small pulls and make use of dazes to avoid taking damage in the first place.
I guess I'll report back regarding how this sort of thing goes at level 61+, assuming there's no changes to the diminishing returns today.
3) Regeneration, and its place in statting/gearing. We wanted to drastically reinforce Regeneration as a tanking stat and a really viable stat for high end PVE tanks regardless of the situation they were in.
Regeneration as it currently is at the live server is already a viable stat for high end PVE tanks, there is no need to change how it works, if you want it to be better for us, just amplify its effect but keep the way it works. How many forum posts were there by players asking for a change to regeneration before mod6 was introduced at the preview server? - close to none. Did our excellent and former GF class advocate send in feedback about all us GFs wanting regeneration changed? I don't remember it and doubt it happened, but in case I am wrong, I appreciate beeing corrected.
If it is your intention to help out high end PVE tanks, then give us GFs more weapon damage, because high end parties haven't much need for tanking, they don't need more of something that already is close to useless for them.
Tanks cannot easily just mitigate the need for a healer with enough Regen/Lifesteal any more. This was exceptionally important with us adding a new tank and healer this module.
Beginning with the Icewind Dale mod, mobs started to hit harder and in eLoL or eSoT mobs can take 75% or more of the hp of a GF in one hit, Regeneration is helpfull but it doesn't replace a healer here.
The GF class is the tankiest class in the game, we deserve to be partly self-sufficient when it comes to survival and Regeneration is an important stat for us regarding this, please keep it the way it is.
Feedback: Life Steal The changes to Life Steal will make it unreliable for classes that have a low hit frequency. I just don't see why there is this general momentum towards effects that include 'having a chance to', 'adds stacks' or 'can proc every x seconds'. In contrast to this concept, simple flat bonuses seem superior to me, since we can rely better on them, evaluate them easier and also compare them easier to other powers/effects. If it is a concern that Life Steal is too strong, (especially for highly geared dps classes) just weaken its effect, but keep the way it currently works.
Maybe it is in general better to just tweak some numbers instead of reinventing the wheel and risking more bugs, more work and other warpings which then cannot be addressed properly because creating new content is (rightfully) prioritized. (My GF is my main, I played it every mod, and I am a caturday survivor.)
Are there any plans to change how the Temptation Warlock's lifesteal related healing, specifically that which is related to the capstone?
From what I grok from the posts that have gone before, there will be occasional spike heals flying round when LS procs. Is this from each attack, or from each tick of damage that is applied? The latter state of affairs would allow a slightly steadier trickle of healing towards the party, redeeming their utility somewhat.
There is also healing from other sources, such as the 4-piece bonus from Nether Mage and Vampiric Embrace, I suppose.
Also, given the new mechanism, Endless Consumption could end up being heal-overkill, unless it, say, triples the chance to proc Lifesteal, as opposed to tripling the healing, although that could equally be a bit silly.
Perhaps I'd best get on Preview and see whether my feeling of impending butthurt are justified...
I suspect Endless Consumption will end up as a flat x% bonus to lifesteal. Probably 3%, for parity with the 5th ToD boon, although another cool (and flavorful) option would be for it to have a chance (roughly equal to its current proc rate, which will lead to fewer overall instances with the lifesteal change) on Health Steal to grant a HoT for an amount equal to the amount stolen in the first place.
Firstly, Stat Curves - The curves appear far more punitive to higher amounts of stat because they are. When you enter level 61 you move into the new curves, which are scaled for the new gear and higher values of stat that you can get on them. This means that each piece of new equipment you pick up is a pretty big power swing. This is also to give us more room for the end game to grow stat and equipment wise. There was no reasonable way to let players maintain the degree of power they had withe the old diminishing returns (1~60) and still create enough gear tiers where interesting stat choices could be made, and so we have opted to make the stat curves require more stat overall. This is far less obvious at 61 and will steadily increase until you hit 70. Monsters have been tuned to reflect these changes however. We wanted to be sure not to drastically impact the gameplay from 1~60 that players already have experience with so we opted to make these new curves exclusive to level 61+ and will be tuning how sharp that first drop off is as time goes on, but for now it appears to be having roughly the desired effect.
Life Steal and AoE - Given the posts I have seen thus far, the Life Steal changes are having basically the desired effect (with some tuning still to be done to the Life Steal chance) of bringing it more in line with other stats as far as efficacy. With one exception. Currently Life Steal just gets linearly better as you affect more targets and it really shouldn't. Given that we will be exploring some options in regards to tuning life steal on area of effect powers, possibly by reducing the severity or chance to activate on AoE powers to match our Single Target/AoE desired break point.
Classes/Specs that Relied on Life Steal - We will be monitoring classes and specs that relied heavily on life steal (namely Temptation Warlocks and their capstone feat) will likely be getting some form of overhaul to fit with the new Life Steal paradigm.
Firstly, Stat Curves - The curves appear far more punitive to higher amounts of stat because they are. When you enter level 61 you move into the new curves, which are scaled for the new gear and higher values of stat that you can get on them. This means that each piece of new equipment you pick up is a pretty big power swing. This is also to give us more room for the end game to grow stat and equipment wise. There was no reasonable way to let players maintain the degree of power they had withe the old diminishing returns (1~60) and still create enough gear tiers where interesting stat choices could be made, and so we have opted to make the stat curves require more stat overall. This is far less obvious at 61 and will steadily increase until you hit 70. Monsters have been tuned to reflect these changes however. We wanted to be sure not to drastically impact the gameplay from 1~60 that players already have experience with so we opted to make these new curves exclusive to level 61+ and will be tuning how sharp that first drop off is as time goes on, but for now it appears to be having roughly the desired effect.
Life Steal and AoE - Given the posts I have seen thus far, the Life Steal changes are having basically the desired effect (with some tuning still to be done to the Life Steal chance) of bringing it more in line with other stats as far as efficacy. With one exception. Currently Life Steal just gets linearly better as you affect more targets and it really shouldn't. Given that we will be exploring some options in regards to tuning life steal on area of effect powers, possibly by reducing the severity or chance to activate on AoE powers to match our Single Target/AoE desired break point.
Classes/Specs that Relied on Life Steal - We will be monitoring classes and specs that relied heavily on life steal (namely Temptation Warlocks and their capstone feat) will likely be getting some form of overhaul to fit with the new Life Steal paradigm.
this new stat curves will make boons from camping very bad , will new player have any reasons to play old campings?
this new stat curves will make boons from camping very bad , will new player have any reasons to play old campings?
I too worry about the stat curve @ lvl 70. The stats needed for even 1% more of anything is pretty big compared to lvl 60. Also looking at the lvl 70 blue gear its not as if we are getting 300-400% more stats on gear....
I am still waiting for a new PTR patch to come up today and retest everything. Holding judgement until its finalized but I worry about the stat curves... I mean my lvl 60 character may end up being stronger than lvl 70 character aside from things like weapon damage and HP.....
With the new curve that hits at lvl 61, does this mean your stats actually go down at this point? By down I mean in how effective they are. If I have 5000 Power at level 60 and my power doesn't change at 61, does the new curve make my power stat act like it's back a 4500 or somesuch?
Nixon the TR
Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I too worry about the stat curve @ lvl 70. The stats needed for even 1% more of anything is pretty big compared to lvl 60. Also looking at the lvl 70 blue gear its not as if we are getting 300-400% more stats on gear....
I am still waiting for a new PTR patch to come up today and retest everything. Holding judgement until its finalized but I worry about the stat curves... I mean my lvl 60 character may end up being stronger than lvl 70 character aside from things like weapon damage and HP.....
it's not like we really should care about that, less crit for example bring to less damage which brings to more skilled pvp rather than luck based most of the time.
i dont care ending up toned down but there are some problems with enchants ( going to 35% to 10% critical chance while wearing a perfect vorpal is not fun at all ) and fixed amount of damage: chilling presence, storm spell, eye of the storm to name the strongest class features i can remember will lead cws to "who cares about nerfed power, nerfed crit, nerfed everything? i still have my 100% crit boosted by a good 72% vs chilled enemies while proccing passive stuffs all day long".
i dont know if you get the point.
Firstly, Stat Curves - The curves appear far more punitive to higher amounts of stat because they are. When you enter level 61 you move into the new curves, which are scaled for the new gear and higher values of stat that you can get on them. This means that each piece of new equipment you pick up is a pretty big power swing. This is also to give us more room for the end game to grow stat and equipment wise. There was no reasonable way to let players maintain the degree of power they had withe the old diminishing returns (1~60) and still create enough gear tiers where interesting stat choices could be made, and so we have opted to make the stat curves require more stat overall. This is far less obvious at 61 and will steadily increase until you hit 70. Monsters have been tuned to reflect these changes however. We wanted to be sure not to drastically impact the gameplay from 1~60 that players already have experience with so we opted to make these new curves exclusive to level 61+ and will be tuning how sharp that first drop off is as time goes on, but for now it appears to be having roughly the desired effect.
I really enjoy this part, characters were way too powerful, but would it be possible for you to post new stat graphs with diminishing returns, or at at least some info that could help better understanding how the stats work
Life Steal and AoE - Given the posts I have seen thus far, the Life Steal changes are having basically the desired effect (with some tuning still to be done to the Life Steal chance) of bringing it more in line with other stats as far as efficacy. With one exception. Currently Life Steal just gets linearly better as you affect more targets and it really shouldn't. Given that we will be exploring some options in regards to tuning life steal on area of effect powers, possibly by reducing the severity or chance to activate on AoE powers to match our Single Target/AoE desired break point.
Classes/Specs that Relied on Life Steal - We will be monitoring classes and specs that relied heavily on life steal (namely Temptation Warlocks and their capstone feat) will likely be getting some form of overhaul to fit with the new Life Steal paradigm.
The problem with new life steal is lack of reliability, and how much of the heal is wasted if you hit for 300k while have only 30k hp
how this life steal is supposed to work on skills that do a lot of small damage procs chance/proc or /cast ? it might benefit classes with a lot of procs, while GWF's who rely on life steal for survival(since we have to facetank everything, no dodges nor range/cc) with their slow, high damage attacks with high cd and tiny AoE are pretty much fkd
reducing effectiveness is ok, making it as random as mod4 artifact belts is not
also you should enable IWD and WoD to see how lvl 60+ characters can deal with stuff like 3~5 man HE's and harder lair quests, that was an OK difficulty for geared lvl 60 players, with these stat changes they might be too hard
However - just as ayroux already mentioned - I highly doubt you guys will introduce gear that offsets the vast drop in returns these overhauled stat curves brought along. As in, gear that conveys enough stats to offset the HUGE shift of returns to maintain the same crit chance a char has at lv 60 now - for example. Roughly speaking, we're looking at numbers > tripple of what we have right now. Again I'm with ayroux in fearing that Lv 60 chars might actually be superior to fully geared 70 chars just due to that very fact.
But well, I guess it's lean back, wait and see.
Could you guys also please, finally say something about RP required to max Arti gear and RP generation in m6? This would be so much appreciated. Not just by me of that I'm sure.
I really enjoy this part, characters were way too powerful, but would it be possible for you to post new stat graphs with diminishing returns, or at at least some info that could help better understanding how the stats work
I cannot for several reasons. The first of which is that revealing underlying math that controls the game (a la stat curves) would get me in pretty serious trouble. Second reason is that they are substantially more complex to better allow us to tune them on a level by level basis. Each stat curve has additional variables that let us tune or scale how good the curves are for particular level brackets or even particular levels. This gives us a level of control that we did not have with the old flat curves where any change would affect the whole game and made tweaking them far more difficult. With the new curves we can selectively turn a lot more dials and get stats performing where we want them an individual level basis. To accurately graph these curves I would need a better way to communicate 3 and 4 dimensional graphs in visual form. As pretty as 3D graphs are, they aren't very useful for much beyond looking at overall trends
However - just as ayroux already mentioned - I highly doubt you guys will introduce gear that offsets the vast drop in returns these overhauled stat curves brought along. As in, gear that conveys enough stats to offset the HUGE shift of returns to maintain the same crit chance a char has at lv 60 now - for example. Roughly speaking, we're looking at numbers > tripple of what we have right now. Again I'm with ayroux in fearing that Lv 60 chars might actually be superior to fully geared 70 chars just due to that very fact.
But well, I guess it's lean back, wait and see.
We will eventually be releasing gear that gets you back there, but not at launch of module 6. One of our primary goals with the new curves was give us better control over an end game progression and a longer time scale with which to deliver meaningful upgrades and content. Your gear now has far more room to grow than it ever did before in the old system, without becoming wildly more complicated. It is also worth keeping in mind that your raw power (damage dealt/healed or effective health as the case may be) are going up pretty drastically in these 10 levels as a factor of how steeply weapon damage has increased as well as how we are granting HP going forward. While your raw crit chance is going down, this is not a relative measure of how powerful you are any more because everything else that feeds into critical chance is changing as well. Overall you *are* getting much stronger, and will have far more room to grow and improve that power.
Firstly, Stat Curves - The curves appear far more punitive to higher amounts of stat because they are. When you enter level 61 you move into the new curves, which are scaled for the new gear and higher values of stat that you can get on them. This means that each piece of new equipment you pick up is a pretty big power swing. This is also to give us more room for the end game to grow stat and equipment wise. There was no reasonable way to let players maintain the degree of power they had withe the old diminishing returns (1~60) and still create enough gear tiers where interesting stat choices could be made, and so we have opted to make the stat curves require more stat overall. This is far less obvious at 61 and will steadily increase until you hit 70. Monsters have been tuned to reflect these changes however. We wanted to be sure not to drastically impact the gameplay from 1~60 that players already have experience with so we opted to make these new curves exclusive to level 61+ and will be tuning how sharp that first drop off is as time goes on, but for now it appears to be having roughly the desired effect.
Life Steal and AoE - Given the posts I have seen thus far, the Life Steal changes are having basically the desired effect (with some tuning still to be done to the Life Steal chance) of bringing it more in line with other stats as far as efficacy. With one exception. Currently Life Steal just gets linearly better as you affect more targets and it really shouldn't. Given that we will be exploring some options in regards to tuning life steal on area of effect powers, possibly by reducing the severity or chance to activate on AoE powers to match our Single Target/AoE desired break point.
Classes/Specs that Relied on Life Steal - We will be monitoring classes and specs that relied heavily on life steal (namely Temptation Warlocks and their capstone feat) will likely be getting some form of overhaul to fit with the new Life Steal paradigm.
i do understand the idea behind the new life steal but as a cw i also know how glassy we are as a class and life steal is realy the only way we have of staing alive
this being said i would love to see the life steal proc more or turn it to more of a heal over time"hot" so we had a reserve
soloing with any glassy class can be a hard unless you do insane burst damage
Comments
Was the deflection severity for TRs on preview shard changed on purpose, or is it a bug?
I think you don't quite address what abaddon is talking about. Numbers are way off but say at lv 60 2k crit give you 11% crit chance. Now, once you hit lv 61 that number dwindles and goes to 5%. No gear changed at all but you all of a sudden crit remarkably less. For example, my CW went from 52% crit to 44% (or something about that) just by leveling up. Sort of counter intuitive, innit.
new lifesteel is very bad and i think gwf , gf should have improved lifesteel just like tr got improved deflect atm this will give them some advantage and make them a bit better
I like the idea of having class specific life steal returns quite a lot!
it s a plain hard nerf to everything.
i mean, i do think what i am saying... you dont even need gear anymore! it gives nothing.
you either have what you want from stat points or bye bye.
Gear right now is boosting only HP.
i lost all my recharge speed, damage bonus, critical chance etc
i thought the curves were changed in the sense that the diminuishing return was higher... no they just devided them with a factor 100.
something is off, it s easy to do errors with these things
Lifesteal:
the problem is hardly solved.
single target classes no longer will want a single point of lifesteal.
cw is still the one that can go full hp every 5 seconds.
Seems somewhat balanced on my HR.
will bring many complains in pvp when your enemy is almost died and suddently gain 15k hp out of nowhere just by luck.
Regen:
.... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... is it usefull in any way? i mean pots out of combat have no cd.
in combat regen does not work.
we have healing bonus as healing bonus.
you say it boost lifesteal.....when? once every ten minutes when lifesteal procs for 16k and i heal for 18k?
the problem is hardly solved.
single target classes no longer will want a single point of lifesteal.
cw is still the one that can go full hp every 5 seconds.
[/QUOTE]
and cws are reason for life steel nerf and in the end it dont impact them at all since they have multi hit encounter and huge target caps i think cws should have reduced effectiveness of lifesteel in some way
Make sure you read this Crush. He/she is right on the money here.
This may simply require further information to clarify, but I was under the impression that once you hit lvl 61, your stats would be updated to the "NEW" Stat and Diminishing Returns Algorithms. With this being said, It was generally understood that Stats that were already Pushed to lets say, 4k Crit, that once on the new stat system, that we would expect an Increase of our Actual Crit %
But here is what seems to have actually Happened.
My @ lvl 60 stats before Lvling to 61
Lifesteal 1800 = 13% LifeSteal
Defense 2000 = 33% Damage Resistance
Crititcal 3600 = 37% Crit Chance (I could be off on this #)
What happened once i hit lvl 61?
Lifesteal 1800 = 4.3% LifeSteal
Defense 2000 = 15% Damage Resistance
Crititcal 3600 = 27% Crit Chance (I could be off on this #)
Does this mean, in Mod 6, you have decided to Nerf the worth of each Stat Point, so that when we are at lvl 70 with lvl 70 gear, that we would feel like we currently are ?
Is the plan to force players to Stack something really hard such as Crit at 5k points in order to get close to 40% crit rate?
this was a pretty terrible loss of survivability all in one shot for an SW
Please stick to the provided format for posting. Refrain from debating or arguing over another player's feedback. We need this as organized as possible for the devs to read, as the time that they are able to devote to reading our feedback is sparse among their other duties. Thank you.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
and cws are reason for life steel nerf and in the end it dont impact them at all since they have multi hit encounter and huge target caps i think cws should have reduced effectiveness of lifesteel in some way[/QUOTE]
CW already impacted by the change. What appens in ELOL, a yes the boss is a one target so aoe or not you still gain the very same.
i haven't pass lvl 61 yet on my test so i doesn't feel the reduction yet and it still have an effect. You act in comment like you want to destroy a class. The change done on lifesteal have not to purpose to destroy the feat but to make it more random. that the main point and on that it success. the life back lvl is still the very same but it no more ok i need life i activate my daily to get it all back.
It'S more random what ever the class you play CW's included,
I haven't levelled my test character to 61 yet, so I haven't experienced the drop-off in stat effectiveness that others have written up. What I did do was take my Whisperknife Scoundrel to tangle with Venfithar. Both regeneration and life steal are modest on this character's gear. I didn't expect to beat the encounter alone, but thought it might provide some idea of my own sense of survivability. Yeah, I took damage, decidedly more damage than I normally would on a dragon heroic with someone else tanking. No, I didn't heal back to full every single time I landed a Flurry attack. But I did not take more damage than I could mitigate with ordinary major healing potions, and I didn't die, even after a random GWF showed up and started spinning the dragon around and messing up my rhythm (srsly, even on the test server?). I ended up getting Venfithar's health bar dented down by about a third in ten minutes, which I thought was pretty darned good, all things considered... and like I said, I didn't die.
Note: Venfithar's area is now level 52, and you receive notice when you exit the tunnel that you are fighting at level 52. I don't know if it makes an enormous difference in testing purposes since I believe the dragon and I should have still be on fairly equal footing, level-wise.
I used fewer healing potions soloing the first stage of the Cornered by Crabs encounter than I did on the dragon, because I was able to do small pulls and make use of dazes to avoid taking damage in the first place.
I guess I'll report back regarding how this sort of thing goes at level 61+, assuming there's no changes to the diminishing returns today.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Regeneration as it currently is at the live server is already a viable stat for high end PVE tanks, there is no need to change how it works, if you want it to be better for us, just amplify its effect but keep the way it works. How many forum posts were there by players asking for a change to regeneration before mod6 was introduced at the preview server? - close to none. Did our excellent and former GF class advocate send in feedback about all us GFs wanting regeneration changed? I don't remember it and doubt it happened, but in case I am wrong, I appreciate beeing corrected.
If it is your intention to help out high end PVE tanks, then give us GFs more weapon damage, because high end parties haven't much need for tanking, they don't need more of something that already is close to useless for them.
Beginning with the Icewind Dale mod, mobs started to hit harder and in eLoL or eSoT mobs can take 75% or more of the hp of a GF in one hit, Regeneration is helpfull but it doesn't replace a healer here.
The GF class is the tankiest class in the game, we deserve to be partly self-sufficient when it comes to survival and Regeneration is an important stat for us regarding this, please keep it the way it is.
Feedback: Life Steal
The changes to Life Steal will make it unreliable for classes that have a low hit frequency. I just don't see why there is this general momentum towards effects that include 'having a chance to', 'adds stacks' or 'can proc every x seconds'. In contrast to this concept, simple flat bonuses seem superior to me, since we can rely better on them, evaluate them easier and also compare them easier to other powers/effects. If it is a concern that Life Steal is too strong, (especially for highly geared dps classes) just weaken its effect, but keep the way it currently works.
Maybe it is in general better to just tweak some numbers instead of reinventing the wheel and risking more bugs, more work and other warpings which then cannot be addressed properly because creating new content is (rightfully) prioritized.
(My GF is my main, I played it every mod, and I am a caturday survivor.)
From what I grok from the posts that have gone before, there will be occasional spike heals flying round when LS procs. Is this from each attack, or from each tick of damage that is applied? The latter state of affairs would allow a slightly steadier trickle of healing towards the party, redeeming their utility somewhat.
There is also healing from other sources, such as the 4-piece bonus from Nether Mage and Vampiric Embrace, I suppose.
Also, given the new mechanism, Endless Consumption could end up being heal-overkill, unless it, say, triples the chance to proc Lifesteal, as opposed to tripling the healing, although that could equally be a bit silly.
Perhaps I'd best get on Preview and see whether my feeling of impending butthurt are justified...
Firstly, Stat Curves - The curves appear far more punitive to higher amounts of stat because they are. When you enter level 61 you move into the new curves, which are scaled for the new gear and higher values of stat that you can get on them. This means that each piece of new equipment you pick up is a pretty big power swing. This is also to give us more room for the end game to grow stat and equipment wise. There was no reasonable way to let players maintain the degree of power they had withe the old diminishing returns (1~60) and still create enough gear tiers where interesting stat choices could be made, and so we have opted to make the stat curves require more stat overall. This is far less obvious at 61 and will steadily increase until you hit 70. Monsters have been tuned to reflect these changes however. We wanted to be sure not to drastically impact the gameplay from 1~60 that players already have experience with so we opted to make these new curves exclusive to level 61+ and will be tuning how sharp that first drop off is as time goes on, but for now it appears to be having roughly the desired effect.
Life Steal and AoE - Given the posts I have seen thus far, the Life Steal changes are having basically the desired effect (with some tuning still to be done to the Life Steal chance) of bringing it more in line with other stats as far as efficacy. With one exception. Currently Life Steal just gets linearly better as you affect more targets and it really shouldn't. Given that we will be exploring some options in regards to tuning life steal on area of effect powers, possibly by reducing the severity or chance to activate on AoE powers to match our Single Target/AoE desired break point.
Classes/Specs that Relied on Life Steal - We will be monitoring classes and specs that relied heavily on life steal (namely Temptation Warlocks and their capstone feat) will likely be getting some form of overhaul to fit with the new Life Steal paradigm.
this new stat curves will make boons from camping very bad , will new player have any reasons to play old campings?
I too worry about the stat curve @ lvl 70. The stats needed for even 1% more of anything is pretty big compared to lvl 60. Also looking at the lvl 70 blue gear its not as if we are getting 300-400% more stats on gear....
I am still waiting for a new PTR patch to come up today and retest everything. Holding judgement until its finalized but I worry about the stat curves... I mean my lvl 60 character may end up being stronger than lvl 70 character aside from things like weapon damage and HP.....
Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
it's not like we really should care about that, less crit for example bring to less damage which brings to more skilled pvp rather than luck based most of the time.
i dont care ending up toned down but there are some problems with enchants ( going to 35% to 10% critical chance while wearing a perfect vorpal is not fun at all ) and fixed amount of damage: chilling presence, storm spell, eye of the storm to name the strongest class features i can remember will lead cws to "who cares about nerfed power, nerfed crit, nerfed everything? i still have my 100% crit boosted by a good 72% vs chilled enemies while proccing passive stuffs all day long".
i dont know if you get the point.
Another issue with this is also lifesteal % which class has the best bonus to this? the combat hr.
I really enjoy this part, characters were way too powerful, but would it be possible for you to post new stat graphs with diminishing returns, or at at least some info that could help better understanding how the stats work
The problem with new life steal is lack of reliability, and how much of the heal is wasted if you hit for 300k while have only 30k hp
how this life steal is supposed to work on skills that do a lot of small damage procs chance/proc or /cast ? it might benefit classes with a lot of procs, while GWF's who rely on life steal for survival(since we have to facetank everything, no dodges nor range/cc) with their slow, high damage attacks with high cd and tiny AoE are pretty much fkd
reducing effectiveness is ok, making it as random as mod4 artifact belts is not
also you should enable IWD and WoD to see how lvl 60+ characters can deal with stuff like 3~5 man HE's and harder lair quests, that was an OK difficulty for geared lvl 60 players, with these stat changes they might be too hard
However - just as ayroux already mentioned - I highly doubt you guys will introduce gear that offsets the vast drop in returns these overhauled stat curves brought along. As in, gear that conveys enough stats to offset the HUGE shift of returns to maintain the same crit chance a char has at lv 60 now - for example. Roughly speaking, we're looking at numbers > tripple of what we have right now. Again I'm with ayroux in fearing that Lv 60 chars might actually be superior to fully geared 70 chars just due to that very fact.
But well, I guess it's lean back, wait and see.
Could you guys also please, finally say something about RP required to max Arti gear and RP generation in m6? This would be so much appreciated. Not just by me of that I'm sure.
I cannot for several reasons. The first of which is that revealing underlying math that controls the game (a la stat curves) would get me in pretty serious trouble. Second reason is that they are substantially more complex to better allow us to tune them on a level by level basis. Each stat curve has additional variables that let us tune or scale how good the curves are for particular level brackets or even particular levels. This gives us a level of control that we did not have with the old flat curves where any change would affect the whole game and made tweaking them far more difficult. With the new curves we can selectively turn a lot more dials and get stats performing where we want them an individual level basis. To accurately graph these curves I would need a better way to communicate 3 and 4 dimensional graphs in visual form. As pretty as 3D graphs are, they aren't very useful for much beyond looking at overall trends
We will eventually be releasing gear that gets you back there, but not at launch of module 6. One of our primary goals with the new curves was give us better control over an end game progression and a longer time scale with which to deliver meaningful upgrades and content. Your gear now has far more room to grow than it ever did before in the old system, without becoming wildly more complicated. It is also worth keeping in mind that your raw power (damage dealt/healed or effective health as the case may be) are going up pretty drastically in these 10 levels as a factor of how steeply weapon damage has increased as well as how we are granting HP going forward. While your raw crit chance is going down, this is not a relative measure of how powerful you are any more because everything else that feeds into critical chance is changing as well. Overall you *are* getting much stronger, and will have far more room to grow and improve that power.
i do understand the idea behind the new life steal but as a cw i also know how glassy we are as a class and life steal is realy the only way we have of staing alive
this being said i would love to see the life steal proc more or turn it to more of a heal over time"hot" so we had a reserve
soloing with any glassy class can be a hard unless you do insane burst damage