I would prefer seeing life steal removed completely, and rework regeneration.
Instead making regen a static amount of HP healed no matter what HP you are (but lower amount) while in combat, and being as it is on preview for outside of combat. Life Steal is too hard to handle properly, some classes can still heal to full and some less AoE DPS class can't rely on it, this solution only solves half the problem. Whereas removing LS and reworking regen would solve the entire problem.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Could I have it explained to me a little better how the new way you intend life steal to be used with a warlock using a furry build. I guess I am a little concerned how I might become even more of a glass cannon than I am already. Will there be some stats included in some of the new gear that we are not aware of yet? Will there be any help for us in pvp as the casting of some spells seem slow compared to some of the other classes I have played. I feel that I telegraph my cast.
Ok, so I leveled myself to lv 70 with Tomes of Experience, lots of fun there. Here is my character at lv 70 in R10s (radiants and darks), he is missing all the boons except ToD because they are not accessible on preview at this time. http://i.imgur.com/YZ8vXnT.jpg
Here are the stat increases at lv 70
This is scaled really really hard.
Crit at 3100 is equal to +4.5% crit chance. Increasing my crit to 4283 brought this up to +6.2% chance to crit.
Regen going from 688 at +1% to 1088 at +1.6%.
Defense goes from 3749 at 9.5% to 5292 at 13.5%.
Power goes from 7447 at 19% to 13, 937 at 35%.
Anyways, i am hoping this is a bug because these are way way smaller numbers then i was expecting. Either that or we are going to need 8k crit to get a return like we used to have at lv 60, and perhaps the lv 70 gear will provide that, the HR epic shirt i saw with 190/pwer/crit/rec and 112 defense would seem to suggest this, but i dunno.
I will await more information with great hope.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
The Paladin has nothing to do with the stat changes. In case you haven't noticed, DCs were also redundant in PVE thanks to high GS builds with massive AOE abilities who simply out-healed any and all damage from monsters... thus the need to make DCs damage dealers as it was done in Mod 5. Its Cryptic's fault for not planning ahead and letting us run five Mods with insane self healing in PVE without being on a healing class - naturally we got used to being a one-man army . So, these changes were needed in order to make everyone relevant. I just hope it works as intended and every class gets a meaningful place.
Solo adventuring - as I read thru this thread I saw some concerns about soloing. Personally I dont think we have a problem there. Solo means dailies. Those are too easy anyway.
Last but not least, thanks for bringing Preview online guys, I'll do some testing tonight
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Feedback: Lifesteal
The general BIG problem with lifesteal and hit points is that you are either at 100% health or dead.
And there's nothing in between. The game misses that feeling of "ohhh I have to do something or I'm going to die".
There's no fun at all being one-shotted by those adds in tiamat encounter. It would be much funnier looking at the healtbar thinning slowly but inexorably to death.
It's quite funny looking at big-enemies health-bars slowly emptying. Why that cannot happen to player characters too?
This scenario could be easly achieved with the current content neverwinter is offering, by removing the lifesteal stat and giving player characters something like ten times more hit points.
It would create a feeling of progression to death making possible for players to evaluate the dangerousness of a dungeon, adapt battle tactics on the fly to counter for the situation, and would give healers time to react to the situation making their role much more satisfying than now.
From a content creator point of view, mechanics like these could create interesting side-opportunities, like meaningful damage over time (poison for example), meaningful traps (every HP counts!), no-healing zones, meaningful class features that trigger like "below 50% health" and so on.
Balancing dungeons and encounters around this idea would make neverwinter a more satisfying experience, in my opinion.
1) Life Steal thematics - Remember that this is *not* a spell you are casting. Your fighter with no levels of wizard is not using a magic spell to steal health. He is using magically enhanced equipment. And in that vein, equipment being persnickety and not always doing exactly what you want (especially when you really really need it to) has been a feature of lots of special items in DnD. This is no exception.
2) Life Steal mechanically - One of the things we wanted to change was the *reliability* of life steal. Making it operate as a more random even makes it feel streaky in practice and not something you can rely on to just carry you through a tough place. You will have to adjust your tactics when soloing to account for this, but the new content also keeps this change in mind.
Feedback - Lifesteal The change to Lifesteal here makes it feel like an armour setpiece proc, something I'd expect from gear with multiple pieces equipped. However it isn't; it's a fixed stat attached to many items and Companions, and like many of the other fixed stats I generally expect a more reliable return for the investment. Much like I do when I stack Power to increase damage and healing, or Defense to mitigate damage.
As to the thematics of Lifesteal with it being "persnickety", this argument can be made for any stat attached to gear. How exactly does my belt increase my Armour Penetration exactly? It clearly is a mystical imbued item for it to do so, so should that also be "persnickety" in its application as well? What about Incoming Healing, another magical stat that enhances gear, should that also not always work reliably?
In the end would it not have been preferable to have made Lifesteal a HoT that procs on Critical Hits, with the Lifesteal stat determining how much health you'll eventually get healed for. An ICD timer would likely be needed in this case to mitigate too many crits proccing heals too frequently.
Feedback - Lifesteal With 14% LS change I don't feel any different on my sentinel GWF. But you need to remember that that's a pretty high chance and I deal lots of AoE damage. Players and classes with low damage/single target attacks/low LS chance get it worst.
Feedback - Regeneration I dislike the change with a passion. It's nice that it regenerates a percentage of the max HP, I believe that's how it always should have been. But that happening only outside combat? No way. I can already see TRs and HRs using stealth to run out of combat to regenerate to full and then come back and destroy tanks who need to be babysat now. Another thing to note is that DCs heal even more due to regeneration. They can already heal to full with Gift of Faith now even dps clerics can do something similar.
Please undo this change to regeneration. It's killing tanks and boosting healers / stealth classes beyond imagination. That's a complete opposite of what it should be.
Feedback: Lifesteal
The general BIG problem with lifesteal and hit points is that you are either at 100% health or dead.
And there's nothing in between. The game misses that feeling of "ohhh I have to do something or I'm going to die".
There's no fun at all being one-shotted by those adds in tiamat encounter. It would be much funnier looking at the healtbar thinning slowly but inexorably to death.
It's quite funny looking at big-enemies health-bars slowly emptying. Why that cannot happen to player characters too?
This scenario could be easly achieved with the current content neverwinter is offering, by removing the lifesteal stat and giving player characters something like ten times more hit points.
It would create a feeling of progression to death making possible for players to evaluate the dangerousness of a dungeon, adapt battle tactics on the fly to counter for the situation, and would give healers time to react to the situation making their role much more satisfying than now.
From a content creator point of view, mechanics like these could create interesting side-opportunities, like meaningful damage over time (poison for example), meaningful traps (every HP counts!), no-healing zones, meaningful class features that trigger like "below 50% health" and so on.
Balancing dungeons and encounters around this idea would make neverwinter a more satisfying experience, in my opinion.
Too soon to say but for now it looks good for my GWF. Having 10% life steal chance means that from time to time I need to use a potion but content isn't extremely difficult so putting more points in some defensive stats helps a lot. Maybe healing or tanking companions and healers and tanks in general will be useful again which would be very very nice.
That said based on scathias picture if having 748 life steal at level 70 contributes to 0.8% chance to get healed there is no point in using life steal.
Will you please provide the equations of the the curves you plan to use? I know that developers don't like to divulge their secret behind-the-scenes programming, but let's be totally up-front: it's not hard to reverse engineer the equations you're using. It's just time consuming to gather the data points and fit the curves. That means less time for people to understand the ramifications and provide you useful feedback on potential problems that might come into play from overstacking some stats. You would get better feedback sooner if you just tell us what the curves are from the get-go.
QUESTION: Stat changes to gear
I noticed that several T1 and T2 armor sets had their stats nerfed quite hard. They now have approximately 1/2 of their stats on live server. Is this intentional, or is this just a temporary glitch while you get the new gear levels sorted out?
1) Life Steal thematics - Remember that this is *not* a spell you are casting. Your fighter with no levels of wizard is not using a magic spell to steal health. He is using magically enhanced equipment. And in that vein, equipment being persnickety and not always doing exactly what you want (especially when you really really need it to) has been a feature of lots of special items in DnD. This is no exception.
2) Life Steal mechanically - One of the things we wanted to change was the *reliability* of life steal. Making it operate as a more random even makes it feel streaky in practice and not something you can rely on to just carry you through a tough place. You will have to adjust your tactics when soloing to account for this, but the new content also keeps this change in mind.
That's all well and good, except for one thing, lifesteal is just that, lifesteal, it does what it says on the tin. You don't enchant a weapon to randomly and unreliably drain health on 1 in 20 hits, you enchant it to steal a SMALL amount on EVERY hit. period. Any other way just does not work at all, tried it for a couple of hours on preview when i could get on, and i have to say, not only does it feel wrong, it feels nonexistant, its more like some invisible ghost-healer healing you randomly...
A Much better way would have been to just re-work the numbers, like how much of the stat is needed per 1%, making it slightly less effective, instead of obsolete.
Feedback - Level Progression Also the change from 60 to 61 is so sharp it feels like a different curve from what we have currently.
Feedback - Regen/Lifesteal And from seeing how little regen and life steal gives makes me think the current curve is rather inconsistent with how power and arpen seem to be where they should be but everything else is nerfed to oblivion.(this applying to lvl 70 and not 61)
The tooltips and the categories are confusing on my character sheet.
Ratings:
Regeneration: Currently at 900 Contributes to Health Regeneration 7.2% Contributes to Bonus Incoming Healing 7.2%
Incoming Healing Bonus: Currently at 630 Contributes to Healing 7%
Defensive:
Health Regeneration 7.2%
Bonus Incoming Healing 7.2% - This looks like it's being pulled from my regeneration stat. What happened to the Incoming Healing Bonus from my ratings (an additonal 7%)? It does not appear the tooltip is not taking into account between the two stats.
Feedback: Lifesteal
The general BIG problem with lifesteal and hit points is that you are either at 100% health or dead.
And there's nothing in between. The game misses that feeling of "ohhh I have to do something or I'm going to die".
There's no fun at all being one-shotted by those adds in tiamat encounter. It would be much funnier looking at the healtbar thinning slowly but inexorably to death.
It's quite funny looking at big-enemies health-bars slowly emptying. Why that cannot happen to player characters too?
This scenario could be easly achieved with the current content neverwinter is offering, by removing the lifesteal stat and giving player characters something like ten times more hit points.
It would create a feeling of progression to death making possible for players to evaluate the dangerousness of a dungeon, adapt battle tactics on the fly to counter for the situation, and would give healers time to react to the situation making their role much more satisfying than now.
From a content creator point of view, mechanics like these could create interesting side-opportunities, like meaningful damage over time (poison for example), meaningful traps (every HP counts!), no-healing zones, meaningful class features that trigger like "below 50% health" and so on.
Balancing dungeons and encounters around this idea would make neverwinter a more satisfying experience, in my opinion.
Thanks for listening.
This! and I like how the new regen will works
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2015
As an aside, who chose these horrible colour schemes for posts, they are sore on the eyes looking utterly deplorable.
Feedback: Lifesteal.
After a bunch of experimentation on preview with my characters, I felt I should give some feedback on the changes to lifesteal. I personally dislike the way you have changed lifesteal, not because, "It makes you need a dc," or because, "It makes stuff too hard," but because the change doesn't achieve the desired result. What the change was intended to do was to prevent people from being invincible glass cannons who don't die due to their lifesteal not running out and to a degree, I admit, that has worked. However, it doesn't make this invincible lifesteal toon type inpossible to build, rather it limits them to particular classes and just changes the build such that it requires a toon with higher HP. My PVE CW, for instance, is 17k gs and has 40k HP. Yes, I know, I gave up a lot of damage for that kind of HP and that in the current game PVE is unnecessary, however, I like that level of tankiness. In the new content, he can just run around like a mad thing as always, with steal time on tab (I did this for testing purposes only ofc) and gather up huge crowds of ~30+ adds. Although I don't lifesteal all the time, my CW can pretty much guarentee lifesteal against that many targets and when each lifesteal hits for 10-15k, with such a large life pool my health never gets reduced far enough to actually die, rather it sporadically jumps all the way back up as my lifesteal triggers. In contrast, classes like GWF, which don't have such amazing AoE are hugely disadvantaged by this change, as they were never the true lifesteal problem in the first place and now they get almost no benefit from it. At the end of the day, if you want to make lifesteal builds unviable, this is not the way to do it, as they can still be created by the exact same classes where they were problematic in the first place and the people who build them this way will probably end up with stronger characters then they had before, due to being less glassy. If you really want to nerf lifesteal then add a cooldown to it, that way it more or less effects all classes equally, and its also completely unviable
The problem with life steal is it still procs reliably depending on how many targets you're hitting. My CW had easier time dealing with 20 mobs than with two. I kited and fought 20 crabs in the heroic shore no problem but I died a couple times when there was only two left. In most dungeons the trend is rush trough and fight everything in one spot literally pulling 4-5 encounters together to AoE them down faster, so in these cases? LS will be just as problematic. In a 1v1? You will get the intended effect of unreliable healing.
The classes it was problematic on like SW and CW who have many AoEs will STILL be just as problematic now, the only difference is when your LS proc,your hp bar gets fulled instead of slowly building up to full over 4 seconds. And the other classes who didn't benefit as much from their life steal ? Well now this stat is pretty much a dump stat for them now.
I would remove Life Steal completely, and rework regeneration instead (Old Life Steal stats turns into Regeneration or something).
Now regen would heal a static amount of HP based on the character's total HP and regen score, it would work similar to how it does in preview outside combat, and you would get something like 1/4 of that inside combat. So your regen nets you 4k HP every couple seconds outside combat, but in combat it's only 1k. You still get combat healing, but it's not enough to keep you alive trough a fight on it's own.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Lifesteals problem is it procs per target. Make lifesteal 100% per round and restrict it to weapons only (which means you may have 6-800 or so max lifesteal). This brings it back closer to traditional D&D.
Beyond that - LS should be a luxury and Regen should be the bread-and-butter of a tank IMO tanky classes (GF, GWF, DC) should be able to just barely regen enough to handle solo content and not enough for party content - making an outside healer necessary (companion/DC/Paladin) -- Non-tanky players shouldn't regen at all and should depend on not getting hit as their method of defense. PS. Lifesteal is also necromantic. Paladins (at least "good" ones) shouldn't even be touching it IMO. You shouldn't need "healing depression".
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
My cw ( 22K Gs ) barely gets any lifesteal procs .
the %chance shows as 2.7% @ 1400 ( level 62 ) with breakdown as follows 300 item , 759 buffs , 355 features .
I levelled to level 63 and my %chance dropped to 2.5% .
By the time I get to level 70 with my current gear I expect that my %chance will be virtually zero .
What is the point of lifesteal if it will NEVER proc at these values .
How soon till we get more info on the stats curve ?
There is something very, very wrong with the stat curves after level 60. The moment a character progresses from level 60 to level 61 they get substantially worse at almost everything.
Here are my stats and how much they benefit my character at level 60 compared to level 61.
Critical: 3256. At level 60 that adds 17.8% crit chance. At level 61 it adds 10.1% crit chance.
Recovery: 2436. At level 60 that reduces cooldowns by 19.5%. At level 61 it reduces cooldowns 8.6%.
Armor Penetration: 2508. At level 60 that works out to 23.8% resistance ignored. At level 61 it works out to 47.7% resistance ignored.
Defense: 2073. At level 60 that is 27.9% Damage Resistance. At level 61 it is 11.5% Damage Resistance.
Lifesteal: 1458. At level 60 it steals health 10.4% of the time. At level 61 it steals health 3.2% of the time.
Regen: 469. At level 60 it regenerates 3.9% of health. At level 61 it regenerates 1.5% of health
Deflect: 319. At level 60 2.2% of hits are deflected. At level 61 1.2% of hits are deflected.
As a character "progresses" to level 61 they become far, far worse at everything but Armor Penetration (where they inexplicably get twice as good). I can't see how this would be working as intended. I've never seen a video game where characters get worse the more you advance them.
Stats
Regeneration – This stat has been trouble to find a place where it feels good, and never really felt desirable to the classes (and in the use cases) we really wanted. With that we are reworking it slightly. It will still grant health regeneration, but only while out of combat. To compensate for this, it also improves the effect of all incoming healing on you. This improvement works on self healing and Life Steal. This does *not* affect potions.
Life Steal – Life Steal has been converted into a proc. Now instead of healing a percentage of your outgoing health one each outgoing attack, each outgoing attack has a chance to siphon a percentage of its damage (equal to your life steal severity) as healing for you. This healing does benefit from sources of increased healing including Regeneration.
Armor Penetration – With a more strictly tiered end game in the works, we have adjusted how Armor Penetration works at end game. More specifically we are making the amount of damage resistance dungeon dwellers have increase sharply with each tier of dungeon. Luckily we are also going to include far more armor penetration as a core stat for damage dealer PVE gear. This won’t affect most players all that much, however it will provide a pretty steep damage increase in subsequent dungeon tiers as you pick up more Armor Penetration equipment.
Stat Curves – As a general rule the new stat curves at level 70 will feel much more restrictive but they are vastly improved in two major facets that will facilitate better content going forward. Firstly they are far friendlier with stacking stats, meaning you can chase stats much harder than you could before without being strongly penalized. While the curves are not totally linear, they will feel that way for the most part. Secondly they are designed to work much farther into our projected gear growth over the coming modules, and as such should handle power creep much more gracefully than before. Overall this means you will see smaller percentages at level 70 than you are used to, but as your equipment fills in you will still find value in your core stats.
I apologize if the bolding doesn't work first off.
Type: Feedback
Feedback: Lifesteal While going through new content in preview, I have found that at 2200-2500-ish (?), Lifesteal as a Soul Bringer Temptation spec SW has unreliable healing for myself/party. I think the percentage amounts to 14.4% (not at my personal computer at the moment, sorry). I do not like the changes for lifesteal. I found that compared to other people in my guild, the curve might not benefit a dps/healer like myself starting mod 6 campaign, let alone starting the paragon path for temptation spec. Procs seemed to be going off at the right percentage, but the percentage is too low to be reliable for healing from a Healock perspective since we don't get as awesome damage as fury or even a CW; it seems to be set a little high to show benefit from stacking life steal. (I think lifesteal should have different stat curve for each class personally, but that's just me.) Lifesteal should most benefit the only healer class that utilizes DPS to actually heal his party, or nobody will want a healock in any dungeons. A group with a TR and CW will look at this SW and say "hey, he's a lvl 60 SW with a few percent more chance to lifesteal than us, who has to focus on lifesteal chance and thus less dmg than us and even heals for a lesser amount than we do. Nah, the spot is better left off for a DC". I just want the healock as viable as a healer DC because of the DOTable dmg(& only way of healing) that we do on top of the new awesome party speed buff, random member gets up to 10% AP from kill, enemy dmg debuffs galore (not new, but I still like) that you gave us.
Side note not related to life steal changes Who ever did the SW development made awesome changes as far as soulbinder goes.
On the live server, there just isn't enough soul sparks stacking to choose soulbinder. The potentially insane amount of soul sparks you can get in a short period of time in the preview shard reflect what the SW community has been wanting. Everything is about perfect for soulbinder in my opinion.
There's a bug where the text keeps flashing for soul sparks after you're max'd and I found during that time, the enemies freak out from a critical lesser curse proccing (the crits thus proc soul sparks) and their reaction is priceless, but needs to be fixed. Revelry scared the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of me the first time and then I realized that the whole level up FX were used for it. It gets annoying, not bc of reused FX, but that it's soooo flashy and bright and distracting. I think that needs to get toned down by a lot. The Lightning bolt is a satisfying feeling though and it shows teammates that they are getting something from us, but it doesn't need to be so bright and obtrusive, and they should take out the glorious angel sound effect that came from the level up FX and only use the lightning sound by itself with a little text saying "Revelry" like it normally does.
The changes in Paragon feats for SB Healock are amazing and reflect what we needed; to overall buff the party in a noticeable way.
After playing for a while on the preview server I feel that life steal got useless for my TR once he reached level 61. It is too unreliable. It probably would be the same if he had no life steal at all. This may be due to the changed mechanic or the dramatically lower life streal proc chance - I'm not sure.
I'd suggest to keep the current life steal implementation but put a cap on the amount of life that can be stolen. Something like x % of max health can be stolen per second.
Overall I welcome the idea to require healers again for group play. But I wish solo play wouldn't be nerfed to the ground - at least for some classes.
Feedback - Lifesteal But I wish solo play wouldn't be nerfed to the ground - at least for some classes.
Well i think for most people (14k+) there arent many situation where you need lifesteal that bad. But the thing is that lots of people think that playing "solo" doesnt involve health potions.
"Nerfed into the ground" is i think pure exeggeration - i think of it as a "welcoming change of difficulty"
Also please not that the developers want the lifestealmechanic to be "unreliable".
Do TR and HR as both stealth and dodging classes(with most dodges too) really need that extra deflection chance? Sprinters are already at a disvantage vs the dodgers as they MUST take the shot and prey to deflect, while on the other side a lot of attacks are easily dodged and predictable. If anyone should have that higher than average deflection chance is SW, GWF and GF. This is more problem of dodge vs sprint/guard which imo needs some revison, but my point is that by giving a dodging class also the highest deflection just furthers its advantage vs the sprinting classes.
There is something very, very wrong with the stat curves after level 60. The moment a character progresses from level 60 to level 61 they get substantially worse at almost everything.
Here are my stats and how much they benefit my character at level 60 compared to level 61.
Critical: 3256. At level 60 that adds 17.8% crit chance. At level 61 it adds 10.1% crit chance.
Recovery: 2436. At level 60 that reduces cooldowns by 19.5%. At level 61 it reduces cooldowns 8.6%.
Armor Penetration: 2508. At level 60 that works out to 23.8% resistance ignored. At level 61 it works out to 47.7% resistance ignored.
Defense: 2073. At level 60 that is 27.9% Damage Resistance. At level 61 it is 11.5% Damage Resistance.
Lifesteal: 1458. At level 60 it steals health 10.4% of the time. At level 61 it steals health 3.2% of the time.
Regen: 469. At level 60 it regenerates 3.9% of health. At level 61 it regenerates 1.5% of health
Deflect: 319. At level 60 2.2% of hits are deflected. At level 61 1.2% of hits are deflected.
As a character "progresses" to level 61 they become far, far worse at everything but Armor Penetration (where they inexplicably get twice as good). I can't see how this would be working as intended. I've never seen a video game where characters get worse the more you advance them.
Quoted for truth. Whats going on here GMC? I'm not one to jump and judge this baby before its born so Im hoping you folks really will adjust these STAT curves. If I have a 23-24 GS character right now on LIVE ( which I have ) and I go into mod 6 with him and start leveling past 60, I fully expect that character to carry over his power to the new levels. I get it, it must diminish with level progression but not so freaking drastically and certainly not on the very first level up (61).
The way our current artifact gear and STATs carry over past 60 needs some solid looking into
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
That set was never put in the game, even on test. So for all practical purposes, it's fictitious. It doesn't exist.
It's the second thread you say this, even though people here and there have already picked it up or inspected it in game for a few days already, it's on the test shard already.
Life steal is too useless, use some other methods to reduce its efficiency, but keep it dependable
like a combination of any of these:
make life steal recover amount stolen over X seconds, either stacks or only strongest life steal effect is active
put a cap on how many % of max HP can be recovered/second
make life steal less effective on AoE skills, like 1/3, though only larger aoe skills should count as aoe, smth with tiny AoE like IBS should count as single target for life steal(to correctly tag this skill use aoe for buffs, but add an effect that steals 3x more life from life steal), maybe procs/ranged attacks can use some reduction
if you leave this version of life steal you need to increase hp, smth like 2x for GF/GWF and 1.5x for other classes or 3x and 2x
Comments
I would prefer seeing life steal removed completely, and rework regeneration.
Instead making regen a static amount of HP healed no matter what HP you are (but lower amount) while in combat, and being as it is on preview for outside of combat. Life Steal is too hard to handle properly, some classes can still heal to full and some less AoE DPS class can't rely on it, this solution only solves half the problem. Whereas removing LS and reworking regen would solve the entire problem.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Ok, so I leveled myself to lv 70 with Tomes of Experience, lots of fun there. Here is my character at lv 70 in R10s (radiants and darks), he is missing all the boons except ToD because they are not accessible on preview at this time. http://i.imgur.com/YZ8vXnT.jpg
Here are the stat increases at lv 70
This is scaled really really hard.
Crit at 3100 is equal to +4.5% crit chance. Increasing my crit to 4283 brought this up to +6.2% chance to crit.
Regen going from 688 at +1% to 1088 at +1.6%.
Defense goes from 3749 at 9.5% to 5292 at 13.5%.
Power goes from 7447 at 19% to 13, 937 at 35%.
Anyways, i am hoping this is a bug because these are way way smaller numbers then i was expecting. Either that or we are going to need 8k crit to get a return like we used to have at lv 60, and perhaps the lv 70 gear will provide that, the HR epic shirt i saw with 190/pwer/crit/rec and 112 defense would seem to suggest this, but i dunno.
I will await more information with great hope.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Solo adventuring - as I read thru this thread I saw some concerns about soloing. Personally I dont think we have a problem there. Solo means dailies. Those are too easy anyway.
Last but not least, thanks for bringing Preview online guys, I'll do some testing tonight
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The general BIG problem with lifesteal and hit points is that you are either at 100% health or dead.
And there's nothing in between. The game misses that feeling of "ohhh I have to do something or I'm going to die".
There's no fun at all being one-shotted by those adds in tiamat encounter. It would be much funnier looking at the healtbar thinning slowly but inexorably to death.
It's quite funny looking at big-enemies health-bars slowly emptying. Why that cannot happen to player characters too?
This scenario could be easly achieved with the current content neverwinter is offering, by removing the lifesteal stat and giving player characters something like ten times more hit points.
It would create a feeling of progression to death making possible for players to evaluate the dangerousness of a dungeon, adapt battle tactics on the fly to counter for the situation, and would give healers time to react to the situation making their role much more satisfying than now.
From a content creator point of view, mechanics like these could create interesting side-opportunities, like meaningful damage over time (poison for example), meaningful traps (every HP counts!), no-healing zones, meaningful class features that trigger like "below 50% health" and so on.
Balancing dungeons and encounters around this idea would make neverwinter a more satisfying experience, in my opinion.
Thanks for listening.
The change to Lifesteal here makes it feel like an armour setpiece proc, something I'd expect from gear with multiple pieces equipped. However it isn't; it's a fixed stat attached to many items and Companions, and like many of the other fixed stats I generally expect a more reliable return for the investment. Much like I do when I stack Power to increase damage and healing, or Defense to mitigate damage.
As to the thematics of Lifesteal with it being "persnickety", this argument can be made for any stat attached to gear. How exactly does my belt increase my Armour Penetration exactly? It clearly is a mystical imbued item for it to do so, so should that also be "persnickety" in its application as well? What about Incoming Healing, another magical stat that enhances gear, should that also not always work reliably?
In the end would it not have been preferable to have made Lifesteal a HoT that procs on Critical Hits, with the Lifesteal stat determining how much health you'll eventually get healed for. An ICD timer would likely be needed in this case to mitigate too many crits proccing heals too frequently.
With 14% LS change I don't feel any different on my sentinel GWF. But you need to remember that that's a pretty high chance and I deal lots of AoE damage. Players and classes with low damage/single target attacks/low LS chance get it worst.
Feedback - Regeneration
I dislike the change with a passion. It's nice that it regenerates a percentage of the max HP, I believe that's how it always should have been. But that happening only outside combat? No way. I can already see TRs and HRs using stealth to run out of combat to regenerate to full and then come back and destroy tanks who need to be babysat now. Another thing to note is that DCs heal even more due to regeneration. They can already heal to full with Gift of Faith now even dps clerics can do something similar.
Please undo this change to regeneration. It's killing tanks and boosting healers / stealth classes beyond imagination. That's a complete opposite of what it should be.
100% agree!
hope defs will listen!
Too soon to say but for now it looks good for my GWF. Having 10% life steal chance means that from time to time I need to use a potion but content isn't extremely difficult so putting more points in some defensive stats helps a lot. Maybe healing or tanking companions and healers and tanks in general will be useful again which would be very very nice.
That said based on scathias picture if having 748 life steal at level 70 contributes to 0.8% chance to get healed there is no point in using life steal.
Will you please provide the equations of the the curves you plan to use? I know that developers don't like to divulge their secret behind-the-scenes programming, but let's be totally up-front: it's not hard to reverse engineer the equations you're using. It's just time consuming to gather the data points and fit the curves. That means less time for people to understand the ramifications and provide you useful feedback on potential problems that might come into play from overstacking some stats. You would get better feedback sooner if you just tell us what the curves are from the get-go.
QUESTION: Stat changes to gear
I noticed that several T1 and T2 armor sets had their stats nerfed quite hard. They now have approximately 1/2 of their stats on live server. Is this intentional, or is this just a temporary glitch while you get the new gear levels sorted out?
Feedback also in regards to this: That's all well and good, except for one thing, lifesteal is just that, lifesteal, it does what it says on the tin. You don't enchant a weapon to randomly and unreliably drain health on 1 in 20 hits, you enchant it to steal a SMALL amount on EVERY hit. period. Any other way just does not work at all, tried it for a couple of hours on preview when i could get on, and i have to say, not only does it feel wrong, it feels nonexistant, its more like some invisible ghost-healer healing you randomly...
A Much better way would have been to just re-work the numbers, like how much of the stat is needed per 1%, making it slightly less effective, instead of obsolete.
At lvl 61 3.2k arpen gives 59.9 resistance ignored
Feedback - Level Progression
Also the change from 60 to 61 is so sharp it feels like a different curve from what we have currently.
Feedback - Regen/Lifesteal
And from seeing how little regen and life steal gives makes me think the current curve is rather inconsistent with how power and arpen seem to be where they should be but everything else is nerfed to oblivion.(this applying to lvl 70 and not 61)
The tooltips and the categories are confusing on my character sheet.
Ratings:
Regeneration: Currently at 900
Contributes to Health Regeneration 7.2%
Contributes to Bonus Incoming Healing 7.2%
Incoming Healing Bonus: Currently at 630
Contributes to Healing 7%
Defensive:
Health Regeneration 7.2%
Bonus Incoming Healing 7.2% - This looks like it's being pulled from my regeneration stat. What happened to the Incoming Healing Bonus from my ratings (an additonal 7%)? It does not appear the tooltip is not taking into account between the two stats.
This!
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
Feedback: Lifesteal.
After a bunch of experimentation on preview with my characters, I felt I should give some feedback on the changes to lifesteal. I personally dislike the way you have changed lifesteal, not because, "It makes you need a dc," or because, "It makes stuff too hard," but because the change doesn't achieve the desired result. What the change was intended to do was to prevent people from being invincible glass cannons who don't die due to their lifesteal not running out and to a degree, I admit, that has worked. However, it doesn't make this invincible lifesteal toon type inpossible to build, rather it limits them to particular classes and just changes the build such that it requires a toon with higher HP. My PVE CW, for instance, is 17k gs and has 40k HP. Yes, I know, I gave up a lot of damage for that kind of HP and that in the current game PVE is unnecessary, however, I like that level of tankiness. In the new content, he can just run around like a mad thing as always, with steal time on tab (I did this for testing purposes only ofc) and gather up huge crowds of ~30+ adds. Although I don't lifesteal all the time, my CW can pretty much guarentee lifesteal against that many targets and when each lifesteal hits for 10-15k, with such a large life pool my health never gets reduced far enough to actually die, rather it sporadically jumps all the way back up as my lifesteal triggers. In contrast, classes like GWF, which don't have such amazing AoE are hugely disadvantaged by this change, as they were never the true lifesteal problem in the first place and now they get almost no benefit from it. At the end of the day, if you want to make lifesteal builds unviable, this is not the way to do it, as they can still be created by the exact same classes where they were problematic in the first place and the people who build them this way will probably end up with stronger characters then they had before, due to being less glassy. If you really want to nerf lifesteal then add a cooldown to it, that way it more or less effects all classes equally, and its also completely unviable
The problem with life steal is it still procs reliably depending on how many targets you're hitting. My CW had easier time dealing with 20 mobs than with two. I kited and fought 20 crabs in the heroic shore no problem but I died a couple times when there was only two left. In most dungeons the trend is rush trough and fight everything in one spot literally pulling 4-5 encounters together to AoE them down faster, so in these cases? LS will be just as problematic. In a 1v1? You will get the intended effect of unreliable healing.
The classes it was problematic on like SW and CW who have many AoEs will STILL be just as problematic now, the only difference is when your LS proc,your hp bar gets fulled instead of slowly building up to full over 4 seconds. And the other classes who didn't benefit as much from their life steal ? Well now this stat is pretty much a dump stat for them now.
I would remove Life Steal completely, and rework regeneration instead (Old Life Steal stats turns into Regeneration or something).
Now regen would heal a static amount of HP based on the character's total HP and regen score, it would work similar to how it does in preview outside combat, and you would get something like 1/4 of that inside combat. So your regen nets you 4k HP every couple seconds outside combat, but in combat it's only 1k. You still get combat healing, but it's not enough to keep you alive trough a fight on it's own.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Lifesteals problem is it procs per target. Make lifesteal 100% per round and restrict it to weapons only (which means you may have 6-800 or so max lifesteal). This brings it back closer to traditional D&D.
Beyond that - LS should be a luxury and Regen should be the bread-and-butter of a tank IMO tanky classes (GF, GWF, DC) should be able to just barely regen enough to handle solo content and not enough for party content - making an outside healer necessary (companion/DC/Paladin) -- Non-tanky players shouldn't regen at all and should depend on not getting hit as their method of defense. PS. Lifesteal is also necromantic. Paladins (at least "good" ones) shouldn't even be touching it IMO. You shouldn't need "healing depression".
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Feedback - Lifesteal
My cw ( 22K Gs ) barely gets any lifesteal procs .
the %chance shows as 2.7% @ 1400 ( level 62 ) with breakdown as follows 300 item , 759 buffs , 355 features .
I levelled to level 63 and my %chance dropped to 2.5% .
By the time I get to level 70 with my current gear I expect that my %chance will be virtually zero .
What is the point of lifesteal if it will NEVER proc at these values .
How soon till we get more info on the stats curve ?
There is something very, very wrong with the stat curves after level 60. The moment a character progresses from level 60 to level 61 they get substantially worse at almost everything.
Here are my stats and how much they benefit my character at level 60 compared to level 61.
Critical: 3256. At level 60 that adds 17.8% crit chance. At level 61 it adds 10.1% crit chance.
Recovery: 2436. At level 60 that reduces cooldowns by 19.5%. At level 61 it reduces cooldowns 8.6%.
Armor Penetration: 2508. At level 60 that works out to 23.8% resistance ignored. At level 61 it works out to 47.7% resistance ignored.
Defense: 2073. At level 60 that is 27.9% Damage Resistance. At level 61 it is 11.5% Damage Resistance.
Lifesteal: 1458. At level 60 it steals health 10.4% of the time. At level 61 it steals health 3.2% of the time.
Regen: 469. At level 60 it regenerates 3.9% of health. At level 61 it regenerates 1.5% of health
Deflect: 319. At level 60 2.2% of hits are deflected. At level 61 1.2% of hits are deflected.
As a character "progresses" to level 61 they become far, far worse at everything but Armor Penetration (where they inexplicably get twice as good). I can't see how this would be working as intended. I've never seen a video game where characters get worse the more you advance them.
GUILD: ~Myrmidons~
Would Love to party up with people for pretty much anything!
I apologize if the bolding doesn't work first off.
Type: Feedback
Feedback: Lifesteal
While going through new content in preview, I have found that at 2200-2500-ish (?), Lifesteal as a Soul Bringer Temptation spec SW has unreliable healing for myself/party. I think the percentage amounts to 14.4% (not at my personal computer at the moment, sorry). I do not like the changes for lifesteal. I found that compared to other people in my guild, the curve might not benefit a dps/healer like myself starting mod 6 campaign, let alone starting the paragon path for temptation spec. Procs seemed to be going off at the right percentage, but the percentage is too low to be reliable for healing from a Healock perspective since we don't get as awesome damage as fury or even a CW; it seems to be set a little high to show benefit from stacking life steal. (I think lifesteal should have different stat curve for each class personally, but that's just me.) Lifesteal should most benefit the only healer class that utilizes DPS to actually heal his party, or nobody will want a healock in any dungeons. A group with a TR and CW will look at this SW and say "hey, he's a lvl 60 SW with a few percent more chance to lifesteal than us, who has to focus on lifesteal chance and thus less dmg than us and even heals for a lesser amount than we do. Nah, the spot is better left off for a DC". I just want the healock as viable as a healer DC because of the DOTable dmg(& only way of healing) that we do on top of the new awesome party speed buff, random member gets up to 10% AP from kill, enemy dmg debuffs galore (not new, but I still like) that you gave us.
Side note not related to life steal changes
Who ever did the SW development made awesome changes as far as soulbinder goes.
On the live server, there just isn't enough soul sparks stacking to choose soulbinder. The potentially insane amount of soul sparks you can get in a short period of time in the preview shard reflect what the SW community has been wanting. Everything is about perfect for soulbinder in my opinion.
There's a bug where the text keeps flashing for soul sparks after you're max'd and I found during that time, the enemies freak out from a critical lesser curse proccing (the crits thus proc soul sparks) and their reaction is priceless, but needs to be fixed. Revelry scared the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of me the first time and then I realized that the whole level up FX were used for it. It gets annoying, not bc of reused FX, but that it's soooo flashy and bright and distracting. I think that needs to get toned down by a lot. The Lightning bolt is a satisfying feeling though and it shows teammates that they are getting something from us, but it doesn't need to be so bright and obtrusive, and they should take out the glorious angel sound effect that came from the level up FX and only use the lightning sound by itself with a little text saying "Revelry" like it normally does.
The changes in Paragon feats for SB Healock are amazing and reflect what we needed; to overall buff the party in a noticeable way.
GUILD: ~Myrmidons~
Would Love to party up with people for pretty much anything!
After playing for a while on the preview server I feel that life steal got useless for my TR once he reached level 61. It is too unreliable. It probably would be the same if he had no life steal at all. This may be due to the changed mechanic or the dramatically lower life streal proc chance - I'm not sure.
I'd suggest to keep the current life steal implementation but put a cap on the amount of life that can be stolen. Something like x % of max health can be stolen per second.
Overall I welcome the idea to require healers again for group play. But I wish solo play wouldn't be nerfed to the ground - at least for some classes.
Well i think for most people (14k+) there arent many situation where you need lifesteal that bad. But the thing is that lots of people think that playing "solo" doesnt involve health potions.
"Nerfed into the ground" is i think pure exeggeration - i think of it as a "welcoming change of difficulty"
Also please not that the developers want the lifestealmechanic to be "unreliable".
Do TR and HR as both stealth and dodging classes(with most dodges too) really need that extra deflection chance? Sprinters are already at a disvantage vs the dodgers as they MUST take the shot and prey to deflect, while on the other side a lot of attacks are easily dodged and predictable. If anyone should have that higher than average deflection chance is SW, GWF and GF. This is more problem of dodge vs sprint/guard which imo needs some revison, but my point is that by giving a dodging class also the highest deflection just furthers its advantage vs the sprinting classes.
Quoted for truth. Whats going on here GMC? I'm not one to jump and judge this baby before its born so Im hoping you folks really will adjust these STAT curves. If I have a 23-24 GS character right now on LIVE ( which I have ) and I go into mod 6 with him and start leveling past 60, I fully expect that character to carry over his power to the new levels. I get it, it must diminish with level progression but not so freaking drastically and certainly not on the very first level up (61).
The way our current artifact gear and STATs carry over past 60 needs some solid looking into
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
That set was never put in the game, even on test. So for all practical purposes, it's fictitious. It doesn't exist.
It's the second thread you say this, even though people here and there have already picked it up or inspected it in game for a few days already, it's on the test shard already.
like a combination of any of these:
if you leave this version of life steal you need to increase hp, smth like 2x for GF/GWF and 1.5x for other classes or 3x and 2x