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Discussion: How can the Refining Points system be improved going into Mod 6?
lewstelamon01
Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
Okay, we've all read the news now: artifacts can go up to 120, enchants can go to rank 12, yadda yadda...
Which brings up the burning question: Just how are we gonna get the RP to do all that?
We know that obtaining RP requires quite a bit of extensive (and in many cases, tedious) farming for even a reliable amount. Sure, yeah...we can make Dragon Hoard enchantments...but man, those drop rates.
Now I know, I know, "it shouldn't be legendary in one day!!". I get that. It makes even the task of getting an artifact to epic seem daunting, to say nothing of legendary.
So, what can be suggested?
How about....?
-Add a RP item to dailies/weeklies and make the RP item fit the frequency of the quest.
I noticed that the initial Portal to Tuern quest gave a blue Resonance Stone as a reward. So I thought....why not add this to the weekly quest reward? 5k RP is hardly a game breaking amount, no? What about something like this for all weekly quests (Defeating Dragons, Reclaiming the Hoard, etc.) Dailies can give peridots or aquamarines.
-RP items in epic dungeon chests.
Two fold. It gives a reason for players to run Epic dungeons again, and it gives a reliable, somewhat steady, and mainly bot-resistant source of RP. Let's say...Black Opals at most. Anything else might be a bit too broken.
-Increase the quality of RP stones from weekly invocation coffers, and make an RP stone a guaranteed item.
Really, at most an aquamarine for a week of invocation? And that's if you're lucky? It's already BtA. Let's raise that to the same quality of drops you'd get from a Dragon Hoard enchant--and make the stone a guaranteed item. Doesn't need to be a Black Opal every time. But it shouldn't be "a chance of a refining stone".
-For those who wish to utilize the ZEN store, lower the cost of Blood Rubies by at least 30%
800 ZEN for ONE Blood Ruby? That's a bit much. 800 ZEN is 400k AD at the maximum exchange rate--and that's for just 50k RP. Even Flawless Sapphires are a better value (the same amount of AD would buy 13 sapphires--which comes to 65k RP, and you'd have 10k AD left over).
-If the DH enchants indeed have an ICD, can this please be placed in the tooltip in the form of "This effect cannot activate more than once per X seconds"?
This is just for informational purposes and to lay the scuttlebutt to rest about whether the enchants have an ICD or not.
These are just a few off the top of my head. Constructive discussion is welcomed. Of course, developer commentary and clarification is welcomed as well.
Which brings up the burning question: Just how are we gonna get the RP to do all that?
We know that obtaining RP requires quite a bit of extensive (and in many cases, tedious) farming for even a reliable amount. Sure, yeah...we can make Dragon Hoard enchantments...but man, those drop rates.
Now I know, I know, "it shouldn't be legendary in one day!!". I get that. It makes even the task of getting an artifact to epic seem daunting, to say nothing of legendary.
So, what can be suggested?
How about....?
-Add a RP item to dailies/weeklies and make the RP item fit the frequency of the quest.
I noticed that the initial Portal to Tuern quest gave a blue Resonance Stone as a reward. So I thought....why not add this to the weekly quest reward? 5k RP is hardly a game breaking amount, no? What about something like this for all weekly quests (Defeating Dragons, Reclaiming the Hoard, etc.) Dailies can give peridots or aquamarines.
-RP items in epic dungeon chests.
Two fold. It gives a reason for players to run Epic dungeons again, and it gives a reliable, somewhat steady, and mainly bot-resistant source of RP. Let's say...Black Opals at most. Anything else might be a bit too broken.
-Increase the quality of RP stones from weekly invocation coffers, and make an RP stone a guaranteed item.
Really, at most an aquamarine for a week of invocation? And that's if you're lucky? It's already BtA. Let's raise that to the same quality of drops you'd get from a Dragon Hoard enchant--and make the stone a guaranteed item. Doesn't need to be a Black Opal every time. But it shouldn't be "a chance of a refining stone".
-For those who wish to utilize the ZEN store, lower the cost of Blood Rubies by at least 30%
800 ZEN for ONE Blood Ruby? That's a bit much. 800 ZEN is 400k AD at the maximum exchange rate--and that's for just 50k RP. Even Flawless Sapphires are a better value (the same amount of AD would buy 13 sapphires--which comes to 65k RP, and you'd have 10k AD left over).
-If the DH enchants indeed have an ICD, can this please be placed in the tooltip in the form of "This effect cannot activate more than once per X seconds"?
This is just for informational purposes and to lay the scuttlebutt to rest about whether the enchants have an ICD or not.
These are just a few off the top of my head. Constructive discussion is welcomed. Of course, developer commentary and clarification is welcomed as well.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Post edited by Unknown User on
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So obviously this has been a hot topic since more Artifacts and Artifact Equipment was announced for Module 5. Over a month ago, I suggested a system where earned Experience could be used as a resource to help grow Artifacts and Artifact Equipment. The goal of such a system would allow people more freedom to build and advance their characters simply by playing the game. Right now there is an enormously high level of frustration as to how expensive and tedious it is to level your Artifacts and Artifact Equip.
Here is the new system I propose. First, Experience becomes a resource that is tracked on your Riches tab. Collecting Experience begins from day one. You don't need to be 60 to start collecting Artifacts, so you shouldn't have to be 60 to start collecting Experience. A simple mock up is here:
You can see at the bottom the Experience resource is neatly added to the bottom. The currency tab is already being revamped for Module 5, so I don't believe this is a major technical hurdle. Next to the Experience count is the "Use" button, exactly identical to the Black Ice resource.
When a player hits the Use button, another interface is brought up:
The Item Empowerment screen, again identical in function to the existing Black Ice Empowerment. The screen lists your available Experience points you can allocate, and lists all your equipped Artifacts and Artifact Equipment. If something is already at maximum rank, the equipment will be listed, but you will be unable to add more experience.
Now all you do is simply use the slider (or 100% to allocate it all) to decide how much experience you wish to add to the Artifact. If enough experience is added to enable the Artifact to "Rank Up", after the experience is allocated, the 100% button turns to the "Rank Up!" button, and you cannot allocate more experience until the Artifact is refined to the next level. Pressing the "Rank Up!" button brings up the traditional refining interface for this.
Now what's the ROI that justifies the change?
First, it allows players to focus on just playing the game, while still feeling like they have control over advancing their Artifacts and Artifact Equipment. Since nearly everything in this game gives experience, players can chose how they want to play and still make progress. They're not forced to feel like they have to "grind" a particular path in order to keep advancing.
And happy players are satisfied players. And satisfied players are you best customers, and advocates to new or potential customers. Bottom line: Happy players spend money.
Secondly, the current experience boosters become more relevant to post-60 play, meaning more players have more reasons to purchase these from the Zen shop. If you want to rank up an Artifact more quickly, you might purchase a large or huge experience booster to double the rate at which you receive experience to help speed up the process.
Third, it turns content that might otherwise be viewed as boring or repetitive into opportunities to earn more experience for your artifacts. Doing existing Campaign dailies even after you finished the Campaign could potentially become a lucrative way to earn experience for your artifacts, as well as running dungeon or skirmish content with friends or new players, even though you don't need any of the drops. However, the experience earned will go a long way towards improving your existing equipment.
Fourth, it's not something that 3rd party farmers and bots can produce and sell back to players. The experience you earned is earned via your own play. There's no way for farmers to monetize this, which takes away from Cryptic, as well as generally leads to less happy experience (via attempts to exploit) for players.
And Fifth, it's more satisfying to know that your power level is directly related to how much you continue to play. And as new Artifacts and Artifact Equipment is released, it's not as stressful to start to replace other gear by simply playing the game...and it also gives you an incentive to keep playing and building and experience pool in anticipation of new equipment.
I even think it's reasonable to make this experience pool account-wide to help (and encourage) people to grow their alts, and not make starting a second, third or tenth character seem like such a mountain to climb
Anyway, I'm sure the rest of the community can continue to come up with ways this alternate path to leveling Artifacts and Artifact Equipment would be a much welcome addition.
Please keep in mind I'm not advocating changing anything about the current Refinement system. Using equipment, stones and enchants is still a valid path to ranking up your Artifacts or Artifact Equipment. If you feel like you'd rather farm stones, or purchases stacks off the AH, that's totally cool. But multiple paths to advancement to help supplement is never a bad thing.
Unless they are willing to offer EXP->RP.
The cost of artifacts - even to 120 - isnt necessarily the issue nor is even the cost of rank 12s. This is because of bots. Bots can farm rank 3 stacks and sell them to players on the AH for relatively cheap. It used to be rank 4s but I forget what happened there.
RP for arti-equipment USED to be the same way and not a big deal - until they made RP BO/BOP. This is what caused the massive price increase.
Now that Arti-equip RP is Bound, this is what players have an issue with - the cost of arti-equipment. Whats worse is the different RP values for artifacts and equipment. If they were on a level playing field, you could standardize them all. However 1 arti-equip level requires 300k+ RP. This is a MASSIVE cost, but its not that bad of a cost for other enchants, since you can use rank 3s (mentioned above).
Overall this entire RP system needs a revisit. Honestly the ability to have overflow EXP count towards RP is the best I can see. This allows you to not only slowly farm things but now you dont need to PLACE Rp in each quest/daily/weekly etc. You can just run it, get the EXP and it counts.
I dont see why artifact equipment cant level with you, then you can make the max level 500 and players wont really care - as long as you can actually achieve it in game.
GREAT job man. This is EXACTLY what is needed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With these changes tho it really brings to light how far off the RP prices in the zen store and wonderous bazaar are.
They need to find a much better price for RP. Something like 200 zen for a blood ruby (50k RP) seems alot more appropriate. 50k EXP is alot of quests/farming for $2. Seems like a fair trade where as $8 for 50k RP, thats a little silly.
BEFORE the xbox one launch. Just because they use consoles doesn't mean they can't do math. .... Well.
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Though I strongly prefer the idea of EXP to fill artifacts.
It would keep people playing the content..if the reward is decent enough...I don't think that white pearls or peridots would be a good enough incentive.
Right now, as a legit player, who has been working for months to get my gear to legendary, and still have purple items, it all looks too overwhelming to keep playing...especially since I already have done all the dungeons and have grinded out all my Tiamat boons.
I spend money on this game. I buy companions and mounts, and these make sense because I will always have them. However, the zen price of RP is outrageous, $20 will only get a 2 or 3 higher levels, and then, the item will be obsolete in time.
I love the idea someone else posted about using XP as RP.
You could also go with increasing the RP values of each item and/or lowering the RP requirements for each rank.
At the very least remove or drastically lower the cooldown (to like 5 seconds, not 30) on gathering enchants, considering the exponential increase in RP to max out your gear, as you literally just raised it by a factor of 2.
additionally (and this is only partially off=topic at 1st....) I'd also like to see a complete rework of the rewards from all days worth of Celestial Coins; something similar to:
1 coin = BOA campaign box for a random campaign (5 sparks + 5 crescents for sharandar or 2 dragon sigils, secrets & fangs for tod/wod, ect)
2 coins = "lesser refiner's coffer" (peridot, white pearls, grey resonance stones, chance @ blue marks of potency, power, stability & union ect)
3 coins = "lesser profession resource coffer" (lesser profession resources )
4 coins = (insert random cool idea here)
5 coins = (insert random cool idea here)
6 coins = "greater profession resource coffer" (greater profession resources)
7 coins = "greater refiner's coffer" increase coal ward drop rate by +5%, add BOA brilliant diamond @ a 1% drop rate or whatever, keep pres wards as is, get rid of other rewards and add more BOA rp items such as black opal (being the lowest possible reward aside from pres wards) ect...
For me two change, 1 when you refine an artifact with the exact same kind of artifact you should get a 1 vs 1 RF point and that what ever is x2 point or not.
Second : by only farming, i made an estimate with 5 dragon enchant lvl 9 slotted, how much RP point you win with pure farming per hour. it around 40 K / hour. it mean actual artifact require 120 - 130 H of pure farming per artifact. it practicaly a monthly job. 7 artifact = 7 month of work. without counting enchant where price or RP is not his low too (around 7 -800 K per enchant).
With all new lvl if they follow actual path it's a medium * 3 maybe even *4 (enchant will probably be those that will get the most since you require very same lvl enchant to lvl up ). so on the plan is a 21 - 28 month of work to refine. and passing on cash shop is just out of question since look like to me need to pay my annual pay to get it
All of that and think hee in 4 month we have v7 and all my stuff will goes to garbade because of the 70% loose . And forget if you want try a second or a third character
For me what is a reasonnable time pass to get the equipment. 50 H of pure farming max / equipment. it reasonnable, you can still stuff a second character. So what ever it choose. X8 actual RP point won, getting xp system for artifact...
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I think the thing to remember is that there is no roleplay server here. As such there is no mechanical roleplay system of enforcing naming conventions that happens on "rp" servers in other games. So when RP is mentioned in terms of a mechanical system it's pretty much always going to mean refining point, as roleplay is left to a personal choice here. Which I think is a fair and natural way of doing it.
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Changed the title of the thread to clarify.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
1. We need to be able to refine stacks (99) at the same time. This is a must have
2. We need a reliable way to farm RP. Add it to dailies, mob loot table etc.
3. Rework Dragon Hoard enchantments so that higher enchants (greater/perfect) lowers cool-down of drops and increases chance of blue/purple drops
If artifact gear is the endgame now, we need to have a reason to do pve. I think that getting RP drops of quality (purple) would be a good start for an incentive.
Update:
I forgot, also, this awesome idea should be given much consideration. I support this idea fully and would be overjoyed to have a refinement system that is actually an integral part of my character's advancement, instead of it being a system that puts a tax on the character progression.
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If level 120 is a new legendary level our already legendary items would become epic which means that for each normal legendary artifact we lose 500k AD (5 greater mark of potency which we spent to make it legendary).
EDIT: I'm going to check this on preview so don't get angry for that question.
The main reason people leave the game is because of the RP cost, rank 10 cost and the minimalistic ways to make any AD/RP.
They should really really add a system like ironzerg79 suggests.
— (The unwritten rule)
And yet, you promote DND and Neverwinter.......... This confuses us. You guys promote with and use name of Neverwinter. Which is primarly RP. And now you want to change IT around ??? LOL, your prmotion of DND and Neverwinter sends expectations. As its VERY easy to know that none of you even played these games. If you had, you would know what i am talking about. As I was Neverwinter for over 10 years. my friends were DND 20+ years before Neverwinter. I love this game. Yet The conterdictions i go through are puzzling. If this game didnt carry my favorate past time game I would love it to peices. But as it sets its Limitations on trying to folow such name of NeverWinter or even DND, It isnt keeping up with them. Not even close.
Quesstions ???
Where is this roleplay ?
Where is this guild system ?
Where is the random experience you get when you roleplay ?
Where are the active Dungeon Masters in game that influance your gameplay with random spawns and gifts ?
Where oh where were you guys thinking when you guys tried to link yourselves with DND and NeverWinter ????
Its very upsetting to find that My fav game turned into some pvp drama. Very upsetting !!
Excellent suggestion! Hitting two birds with one stone.
I mean come on Cryptic, it really is this simple. Please do not let greed in the way of producing relevant changes to make loot progression reasonable and dungeon crawling meaningful again.
Please think long term with regards to the game. You saw what happened with mods 4&5. The original coders did a fantastic job with the combat system, don't let that go to waste.
There have been a great number of events that would be considered a DM's work, even all content is the same as seeing an adventure laid out by a DM. Afterall, your player characters in Paper and Pencil only see the actions of the DM, they do not see the DM themselves. We, as players, when we log into Neverwinter on a Character, are Roleplaying our Characters. What your characters are experiencing in game are the same as the actions of a Dungeon Master in paper & pencil. It is up to you to Roleplay your character accordingly, if you wish.
Let's do drop this though, as this is irrelevant to this thread. If you wish to discuss the issues of Roleplay in Neverwinter, please either find an existing thread on that topic, or if you cannot find one, you may make one. Thanks!
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That's a bit rich. One, maybe two opals is sufficient as there is no limit on how many times a dungeon can be run. 10+ is just massive overkill.
Besides, I made the same suggestion in the OP of this thread. The intent of this thread is not "how can we make getting to legendary uber easy". It's addressed more towards the fact that even getting to epic level is a daunting task for many and ways to ease that strain.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com