Excellent suggestion! Hitting two birds with one stone.
I mean come on Cryptic, it really is this simple. Please do not let greed in the way of producing relevant changes to make loot progression reasonable and dungeon crawling meaningful again.
Please think long term with regards to the game. You saw what happened with mods 4&5. The original coders did a fantastic job with the combat system, don't let that go to waste.
I definatly agree Rashy
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The intent of this thread is not "how can we make getting to legendary uber easy". It's addressed more towards the fact that even getting to epic level is a daunting task for many and ways to ease that strain.
That's why I keep harping on the experience system I spelled out.
It encompasses all aspects of the game, and the Devs can make something more or less rewarding by tweaking how much experience it dishes out, which also translates into Refinement Points.
Like the idea above for the Black Opals. If they just made an "average dungeon run" worth X amount of exp, under my system, it would essentially duplicate the same thing, only you don't have the tedium of collecting, then using the refinement stones.
Same idea for daily quests. You're not just grinding them out, you're also earning RP. It would be the same thing as rewarding a sapphire or aquamarine for completing a quest, without the hassle of the stones.
Even in PvP...add experience points to the match. Or make the Foundry a lucrative way to earn Experience by PLAYING the stories in it, not just rewarding people who make mindless farm maps.
You could even add in special events that offer 2x Exp for dungeon runs, or improve the experience earn in Skirmishes.
At the end of the day, it's a very simple idea that has so many levers you could pull to tweak it as necessary, I don't know why it hasn't gotten stronger consideration.
And ultimately, the true beauty of the entire system is this: It rewards people for playing the content of their choice. With the side-effect of being unfarmable by bots. People who play more get RP faster, but people who play less don't have to make the choice of doing something they hate to "grind" refinement stones versus using their limited play-time to do something fun.
Again, I really wish there was more dialog here between the players and the Devs. The original thread I posted contains over 130 replies, most of them overwhelmingly positive about the system. And the other times it's come up, it's been met with additional praise from people on the forums.
And in all the "change" threads that have popped up since Artifact Equipment was introduce, the single biggest complaint that's run through these forums consistently is how "not fun" and "grindy" the refinement system has become. And I bet if you surveyed people who have quit playing in the last couple modules, I would wager all my astral diamonds that feeling like the current RP system puts stuff way out of their reach, so far that it's not even worth trying, is a big factor to them leaving.
I think adding items to quests/skirmishes/DD, areas bots can't touch, is an absolute necessity. Currently all you have is go farming with the utility enchants, which limits your time for stuff you actually enjoy. Like playing the game in its intended way... I don't know why it's so hard supplying RP in areas we do anyway without the need to circle through adventure zones for hours to get the next level on artifact gear.
I'm not saying the utility enchants are a bad idea per se, but in dungeons they hardly proc enough to really matter. Maybe you would have to redesign them to proc off kills you contributed to, not only the mobs you actually deal the killing blow to.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited January 2015
I forgot, also, this awesome ideashould be given much consideration. I support this idea fully and would be overjoyed to have a refinement system that is actually an integral part of my character's advancement, instead of it being a system that puts a tax on the character progression.
That's a bit rich. One, maybe two opals is sufficient as there is no limit on how many times a dungeon can be run. 10+ is just massive overkill.
Besides, I made the same suggestion in the OP of this thread. The intent of this thread is not "how can we make getting to legendary uber easy". It's addressed more towards the fact that even getting to epic level is a daunting task for many and ways to ease that strain.
it should be either 2 non-bound or 3~4 bound, more if they add 20 more levels to artifact equipment
the reason is following - you can run smth like spider in 10~15 min depending on party, so its 4~6 tos in an hour for a good party, back in mod 4 you could farm some 80~120k RP/hour in foundries, the rate was decent, but was too bot friendly
Edit: Remove single item cap for refinement window. Instead of 5 slots which contain each 1 item, and having to farm clicks for xx hours to put in your 600 rank 4s and 6 stacks of peridot, let us place one STACK of item per slot.
This game is supposed to be fun, not a refinement simulator, and clicking the refinement window for hours is not what I call fun. Besides, the REAL work is acquiring the refining points, putting them in is just useless labor.
Ty
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
That's a bit rich. One, maybe two opals is sufficient as there is no limit on how many times a dungeon can be run. 10+ is just massive overkill.
Besides, I made the same suggestion in the OP of this thread. The intent of this thread is not "how can we make getting to legendary uber easy". It's addressed more towards the fact that even getting to epic level is a daunting task for many and ways to ease that strain.
Considering how much RP it would take to get to level 120 it should drop a stack of 99 Opals. Even then it will take forever to get to level 120........
Most folk can barely plan ahead a few weeks, something that will take years to achieve is just not going to keep people interested.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
it should be either 2 non-bound or 3~4 bound, more if they add 20 more levels to artifact equipment
the reason is following - you can run smth like spider in 10~15 min depending on party, so its 4~6 tos in an hour for a good party, back in mod 4 you could farm some 80~120k RP/hour in foundries, the rate was decent, but was too bot friendly
Let them be account bound, this way no one can say it's contributing to the bots.
Let me start off by saying that most games have one thing common - goals. In almost all games a player starts at "A" and needs to get to "B" to "win" the game. Once you reach "B", you are supposed to have all the gear and all the boosts and what not the game have implemented. In an MMO, goals are utterly important and that's what I can see Module 6 is giving us. So many new goals for the players to strive for.
Many players have full 10s, legendary and all boons etc. That is why Module 6 and its new goals is very much needed. For players that still haven't reached the first goals - nothing changed. You still have the same goal to reach. These new goals are for us who have been playing for a long time and got nothing left to do.
Now to the problem. I've been reading about Mod6 and I'm missing a very important part of the game that will cripple the players and the whole game experience. There is no way to reach the new goals.
This is a free2play game and as I understand it the whole game content is supposed to be available even for the players not paying(?). I understand that without paying, it should take more time to get there but it should still be possible right?
That is not the case with mod6. Even if I would pay a substantial amount of money I wouldn't reach the goals. I'm not doing the math, but think about how much AD is needed for 12s, you need 18 10s start with and another 18 for 11s and then another 36 right for 12s? And maybe you want 12s on your stone so that's even more. I would be homeless if I wanted to pay for it with real money.
It took me like a year to get full 10s on my CW (only playing one char) and a year ago it was actually possible to farm for AD a legit way and that is not possible today since all the loot from the dungeons are outdated and everything else is BoP. So today it would take more than a year to get all 10s and at least another 3 years for 12s. And then you have the artifacts bla bla.
Anyway, my point is that a game cant have goals and no way to reach them because that's a broken game that I don't want to play. More and more players are starting to realize these facts and mod6 will be a wake-up call for the rest.
I think we need some information on how this was intended to work. Did anyone actually think about how to reach the goals? I see no information about new loot or new dungeons etc. Sure there is a new level cap from 60 to 70, but 10 levels wont give me enough RP for all 12s or even one 12. Not with the loot-system we have on live.
I like all the creative ideas. One I haven't seen put forth yet - why not let us buy RP with gold? Once you buy that first mount, about the only thing you're spending on are healing potions.
I like that the artifact equipment can be refined with equipment drops; it would help to either increase the RP one gets for green - blue to at least make it equitable to buy id scrolls. At least double the amount of RP you get for each. That does, in a way, give a another option of 'playing' your way to upgrading the artifact equipment.
Also, as someone who just recently started playing the game, I was extremely disappointed to find that my big reward for leveling up the gauntlets in Dread Ring was 2 peridots from the treasure chest. Certainly, places like this are an opportunity to increase the RP reward, even if you make them bind on equip.
I love the idea of experience being used for RP since whether grinding solo with dragon hoard, dungeoning, running dailies, PvP-ing, skirmishes, or even running foundries, ect, EXP can be found. That is what RP should be more about. The time invested while also enjoying the game the way you chose to. Not simply going to the highest bidder.
Aside from that though, I would also like to add to the suggestion of RP items as PvP rewards as well. :P While this game doesn't prioritize PvP in the slightest, I still feel it is a desirable model in any game interested in both aspects to let the players chose with what game mode they enjoy to progress their characters (PvE vs PvP).
If I could "grind" RP by playing PvP, I would be in heaven... I don't want to be forced to kill mobs + run dungeons to advance. That is why I haven't been playing the past couple months. I simply can't compete in high end PvP the way I want to so I don't PvP and with my limited time I do have to play I don't want to spend it not PvP-ing. Especially not when it would take roughly a month of an hour a day to get to where I need to be on 1 out of 4 artifacts gear pieces under the current system. Yet, I would enjoy doing this in PvP and even try to make more time to PvP as a result.
If I could "grind" RP by playing PvP, I would be in heaven... I don't want to be forced to kill mobs + run dungeons to advance. That is why I haven't been playing the past couple months. I simply can't compete in high end PvP the way I want to so I don't PvP and with my limited time I do have to play I don't want to spend it not PvP-ing. Especially not when it would take roughly a month of an hour a day to get to where I need to be on 1 out of 4 artifacts gear pieces under the current system. Yet, I would enjoy doing this in PvP and even try to make more time to PvP as a result.
There should be BIS PVP secondary artifacts (which means that they have the 2 main stats plus a whole lot of tenacity stat) that you can get through playing PVP and are refinenable by glory.
And if they finally add some micro-transactions to the CS they can make money of it just as easily if not easier than the current system. Because this progression system is bot-proof, Cryptic will gain a lot of control on the game back from 3rd parties. Just add smaller xp boosters of various sizes.
Exactly! Beyond just being more fun for players, this is the big win for Cryptic. Experience is something that has to be EARNED by playing the game. You can't farm it and sell it to another player.
Anytime a player has a transaction that involves a bot, whether it's from a 3rd party website, or via the AH in game, that takes revenue away from Cryptic. Since Refinement is such a major part of advancing your character, if Cryptic can take full control of that process, you can create a fair revenue stream from the components. And that's how they're going to make MORE money off this system, than the current one.
It's a win/win for the players and Cryptic. Players get a system that's more fun for them, and Cryptic gets an opportunity to fairly monetize another portion of the game. I don't think anyone has a problem with people being able to pay for convenience or pay to speed things up, which is exactly the kind of options Cryptic can add to the game via the boosters and other stuff Magenubbie mentioned above.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited January 2015
You get experience for doing PvP while leveling. I'm certain Cryptic could add in a fair way of calculating PvP experience at level 60. Points scored in a match can directly translate to experience, as could a bonus for winning a match, with some reward given for losing.
That's not hard to do. And it should absolutely be done.
A big piece of my system is to allow players to play the way they want, when they want, and how they want, and still feel like they're making progress towards Artifact and Artifact Equipment progression.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ebonyshadowMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1 -Add a RP item to dailies/weeklies and make the RP item fit the frequency of the quest.
2 -RP items in epic dungeon chests.
3 -Increase the quality of RP stones from weekly invocation coffers, and make an RP stone a guaranteed item.
4 -For those who wish to utilize the ZEN store, lower the cost of Blood Rubies by at least 30%
5 -If the DH enchants indeed have an ICD, can this please be placed in the tooltip in the form of "This effect cannot activate more than once per X seconds"?
1 - Adding AD to the dailys, would help.... Heck I'd even be likely to do shardanar and dread ring dailys again (I have all boons etc in both on my main and no reason to run them) if it would help get the darn artifacts sorted (Got 4 artifacts currently and only managed to get one in the purple, the others are still blue..... and thats My main, I haven't even started with my other 7 toons yet)
2 - Can't see then putting enough value it make a real difference, given the time it takes for an epic dungeon (At least without a decent guild behind you!) but hey, every little helps, right!
3 - Again I can't see them putting a stone in of enough value to make a difference.... but again, every little helps.
4 - Negligible, I can't see many folks who have to actually earn their own money, throwing it after RP, not with how much RP is involved.... those living out of daddys wallet and heavily into PvP, maybe. would have ZERO impact on players like myself, whilst I do use the store, not for that kind of item, I'll do without before I pay for something of that nature.
5 - Absolutely. There is no excuse for this not already being done, if indeed there is an ICD (And it is quite clear there is!) at least be honest about it.
-Add a RP item to dailies/weeklies and make the RP item fit the frequency of the quest.
-RP items in epic dungeon chests.
-Increase the quality of RP stones from weekly invocation coffers, and make an RP stone a guaranteed item.
-For those who wish to utilize the ZEN store, lower the cost of Blood Rubies by at least 30%
-If the DH enchants indeed have an ICD, can this please be placed in the tooltip in the form of "This effect cannot activate more than once per X seconds"?
1) The EXP -> RP system would accomplish this with no added effort to balance this. If EXP = RP, then you would earn RP via ALL EXP earned which is HUGE! I think adding RP to dailies would be nice as well, however I dont think itll be enough. Even if they gave an Aquamarine to all dailiy rewards it would be too little IMO.
2) I agree here. DD Chests lvl 60+ should have a minimum of a Black Opal as a reward. Id even say as far as a blood ruby. That would really get ppl farming dungeons.
3) That wont really solve much TBH, even if it was a black opal, thats still what 10k RP every 6+ days? I guess it all adds up but this wont get us anywhere fast.
4) Blood Ruby needs to cost 200 zen. Even at 200 zen with it taking 4,600,000 for a lvl 60 arti-equipment this would cost you 18,400 zen. If 2000 = $20 this would mean a lvl 60 item costs what $184?! See how that is STILL a very high price?
All roads point to an EXP->RP system. I personally think it should JUST be "overflow" EXP, so it only accumulates once your AT max level. But I would also like this EXP->RP to be used for ANY RP, rank 12 enchants, weapon enchants, artifacts, Arti-equip etc. We should collect overflow EXP as RP and be able to use it as RP for anything. This makes the crazy cost of all of this much more attainable but STILL very costly.
As mentioned about all the costs for Zen-> RP should be about 400% less. Yes 400%. Going from 800 zen per blood ruby down to 200 zen would make it MUCH more fair.
THe only liability then would be players would just buy 3rd party AD and convert to zen. So what Cryptic REALLY needs to do is set a "set" Zen:AD price at 1000:1 and re-adjust ALL zen prices to reflect this. Now more ppl will buy direct.
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kilden1234Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 42
edited January 2015
If Cryptic has any sence of finance they should just add a RP x 2 boost to the ZEN store, and make people pay cash for it. People can then pay for this, if they dont want to spend many hrs farming for RP. Pay for convenience. This boost could stack with the "normal x2 RP event" giving players a chance to get x4, if they pay for it.
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited January 2015
Don't flay me alive, but how about removing the "copy" requirement for ranking up the various enchant? (To get greater soulforged I also need another copy of normal soulforged and so on).
I know it would drastically cut the time and resources needed to reach rank 10s, but they could make up for that by making rank 11 and 12 a lot harder to achieve.
I very much like the experience system as well, but it shares one flaw with the current RP system: You are forced doing stuff you'd normally not do.
Now, you need to farm in 60s adventure zones with DH to progress, with the experience based system, you'd need to farm daily quests. The system should be aiming at making group content, Skirmishes and DD specifically, more rewarding in terms of progression and scale with the difficulty of the content. Since you are getting very little XP by doing a dungeon, this presents a problem.
Even worse, thanks to Leadership, you could get major progression without even playing the game at all.
they should just convert refining stones to number currency like zen and trade like zen, use similar to black ice, just with a number on slider you can change to add exactly what you want
would work exactly as gold with auto pickup and all
I very much like the experience system as well, but it shares one flaw with the current RP system: You are forced doing stuff you'd normally not do.
Now, you need to farm in 60s adventure zones with DH to progress, with the experience based system, you'd need to farm daily quests. The system should be aiming at making group content, Skirmishes and DD specifically, more rewarding in terms of progression and scale with the difficulty of the content. Since you are getting very little XP by doing a dungeon, this presents a problem.
Even worse, thanks to Leadership, you could get major progression without even playing the game at all.
Yeah this is true, however they will honestly never make any of this meaningful. What players have tried to say is increasing the RP from using actual gear. However the issue is you would need to increase items nearly 50x to produce the desired effects.
Maybe the item level system could play in your favor with this new idea. However if you ever want to make a dungeon run worth it, youll need to make epic items worth like 50k RP for it to matter. Then you run into issues of players just buying those items instead of doing anything.
This is all part of the problem. The time it takes to farm 1 T2 item is like 15-20 minutes in a solid group. Even then its a small chance to earn that item.
Even if you got it then used it to upgrade you Belt for instance, giving you 50k RP even would still be kinda MEH - considering it would be like 1/5th of a level in the 50s range (lvl 54 for instance is about 300k RP).
The only REAL solution I see is to do an EXP system. Then you can ALSO buff up the RP earned from epic items and then ALSO beef up the EXP earned for daily quests associated with dungeons.
If you, for instance, gave 20k EXP as a reward for a daily dungeon. Now you not only earn EXP while farming those mobs, youll get 20k RP at the end from the EXP daily and ONTOP of that would also have an epic item or two to refine for another 20k+.
Thats the only way I see it working.
TLDR: Making items too good defeats the purpose. Just having it be EXP doing give incentive for dungeon running. So doing a combination produces the desired outcome.
And there's nothing wrong with having something to strive for. I'll be the last to say otherwise. Let me try and explain the problem. There's roughlý 3 types of players:
- The no-lifer. He'll have no problem meeting any requirement because he'll be in game anyway. Doing 1 or the other doesn't make any difference to him.
- The wallet warrior: This type has no problems achieving any goals either. If it can't be bought directly from the AH, he'll just buy whatever is required from the CS until he's got what he wants.
- The casual evening/weekend player: This is the type of player who won't get anywhere anytime soon as it is, and will gain only less if the current system grows as is intended in mod6. I'll use myself as an example for this. I have 4 characters I enjoy playing. I managed to get 1 (!) equipped with artifact main weap, OH and belt, all at purple level at this point. 1 has an artifact main hand, but remains blue for the time being. The others have nothing and even if I bought them a belt it would still be green. I simply lack the time to play enough to get 16 artifact gear pieces AND 12 artifacts to legendary. No character I have owns an enchantment above R7.
Now, Cryptic claims to want to cater the casual. It's been stated several times by devs, and the general difficulty of the game up to IWD is further proof of this. However, extending the artifacts/enchantments this way is nothing short of catering their own wallets in the worst way possible. The no-lifer doesn't care. He'll play till he drops to get there. The wallet-warrior will pay anyway. But the largest group of people, which Cryptic claims to aim at most, will be totally left out of any serious progression.
Having something to work for is one thing. It motivates players to keep playing. Having no obtainable goal within reach will accomplice the exact opposite. It will create a feeling of "why should I bother? it'll take over a year to get 1 piece of what that no-lifer/wallet warrior has. And they have at least 7 of them. So I should catch up in.. 7 years." This feeling has long been present in PvP and we all know what the state of the population is there. It's not exactly growing. Asking casuals to make a 7 year commitment is quite a call to make and if they go through with this, not only will they have a dead PvP community, but PvE will go the same way. It'll be no-lifers and wallet warriors only. The rest just gives up. If they are lucky, people might keep playing the foundry, as that'll be the last thing that can give them some fun without feeling the pressure to treat this game like work. But with the current state the foundry is in, not many players will do even that.
Sorry but this sounds to me like another: Game is too hard, make it easier pls! kind of post.
Let me explain my point of view, FTP MMOs that I have played before (including NW) are designed with goals, several of them. For example, in NW you have artifact gear, rank 10 enchantments, max professions, etc. Different sorts of goals to achieve, there are always some goals to achieve for players that take a RIDICULOUS amount of time to complete, so long in fact the average player is not expected to actually complete them, and it serves as a reason to keep playing, because a player without a goal gets bored and stops playing. Now I'm sure you have max professions on many of your chars, but if you're like me, then you probably don't have r10s and legendaries yet. The reason is those goals are designed for the wallet warriors, not for you and me. It serves as a motivation players to spend cash on the game to speed up the process.
Remembering this game is free to play, and some goals are out of our reach unless we dump money on the game, you should set yourself new goals if you didn't plan to pay hundreds of dollars for artifact gear. My goal on my warlock was to have all 9 profession slots and max leadership, I wanted r7s in every slot and I wanted my artifacts and artifacts equipment to epic rank. It took me 3 months and I achieved my goal, because this goal was realistic and achievable for me. For a wallet warrior a realistic goal is all legendaries and all r10s with legendary mounts. For a very casual player his goals might be have black ice gear and jewelcrafting gear with rank 7 enchants in all slots.
If you make the content easy the wallet warriors will have resentment because even the casual players will be running around with legendaries, the game was not designed for this to happen. However, I do agree with your posts many of them, the refining system should change, both the interface and acquiring RP. I think the interface needs to be made smoother, while acquiring RP accessible by other means than grinding monsters with a dragon's hoard enchantment. This system sounds to me like the best suggestion so far by far, and is ideal to the game(Link here). It doesn't make it 'easy' it simple makes it available trough actually playing the game the way you want to.
So in the end, what you say makes sense, if the goal is too high to reach, people will give up on that particular goal. And that's why each class of player has different goals than the others in a MMO.
TL;DR, if you feel your goal is out of reach, make yourself a different new goal that's achievable for you. I also think the refining system should change to something smoother.
Side Note: My new goal is to work professions and my new army of alts to 20 leadership and save up ADs/RP/Coal wards for what's coming out in mod 6 aka paladin (and booster pack probably if they make it buyable with ADs/Zen not just real money) and all the new stuff planned out.
What is your goal?
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Comments
I definatly agree Rashy
That's why I keep harping on the experience system I spelled out.
It encompasses all aspects of the game, and the Devs can make something more or less rewarding by tweaking how much experience it dishes out, which also translates into Refinement Points.
Like the idea above for the Black Opals. If they just made an "average dungeon run" worth X amount of exp, under my system, it would essentially duplicate the same thing, only you don't have the tedium of collecting, then using the refinement stones.
Same idea for daily quests. You're not just grinding them out, you're also earning RP. It would be the same thing as rewarding a sapphire or aquamarine for completing a quest, without the hassle of the stones.
Even in PvP...add experience points to the match. Or make the Foundry a lucrative way to earn Experience by PLAYING the stories in it, not just rewarding people who make mindless farm maps.
You could even add in special events that offer 2x Exp for dungeon runs, or improve the experience earn in Skirmishes.
At the end of the day, it's a very simple idea that has so many levers you could pull to tweak it as necessary, I don't know why it hasn't gotten stronger consideration.
And ultimately, the true beauty of the entire system is this: It rewards people for playing the content of their choice. With the side-effect of being unfarmable by bots. People who play more get RP faster, but people who play less don't have to make the choice of doing something they hate to "grind" refinement stones versus using their limited play-time to do something fun.
Again, I really wish there was more dialog here between the players and the Devs. The original thread I posted contains over 130 replies, most of them overwhelmingly positive about the system. And the other times it's come up, it's been met with additional praise from people on the forums.
And in all the "change" threads that have popped up since Artifact Equipment was introduce, the single biggest complaint that's run through these forums consistently is how "not fun" and "grindy" the refinement system has become. And I bet if you surveyed people who have quit playing in the last couple modules, I would wager all my astral diamonds that feeling like the current RP system puts stuff way out of their reach, so far that it's not even worth trying, is a big factor to them leaving.
I'm not saying the utility enchants are a bad idea per se, but in dungeons they hardly proc enough to really matter. Maybe you would have to redesign them to proc off kills you contributed to, not only the mobs you actually deal the killing blow to.
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it should be either 2 non-bound or 3~4 bound, more if they add 20 more levels to artifact equipment
the reason is following - you can run smth like spider in 10~15 min depending on party, so its 4~6 tos in an hour for a good party, back in mod 4 you could farm some 80~120k RP/hour in foundries, the rate was decent, but was too bot friendly
GENIUS. 10/10 for you sir
Edit: Remove single item cap for refinement window. Instead of 5 slots which contain each 1 item, and having to farm clicks for xx hours to put in your 600 rank 4s and 6 stacks of peridot, let us place one STACK of item per slot.
This game is supposed to be fun, not a refinement simulator, and clicking the refinement window for hours is not what I call fun. Besides, the REAL work is acquiring the refining points, putting them in is just useless labor.
Ty
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Considering how much RP it would take to get to level 120 it should drop a stack of 99 Opals. Even then it will take forever to get to level 120........
Most folk can barely plan ahead a few weeks, something that will take years to achieve is just not going to keep people interested.
My friends and I really liked the system you spelled out. It sounds a lot more enjoyable and intuitive.
Plus it takes out the horrible buy past the RNG equation. I don't mind people buying time but I do mind buying random amounts of time.
Let them be account bound, this way no one can say it's contributing to the bots.
Many players have full 10s, legendary and all boons etc. That is why Module 6 and its new goals is very much needed. For players that still haven't reached the first goals - nothing changed. You still have the same goal to reach. These new goals are for us who have been playing for a long time and got nothing left to do.
Now to the problem. I've been reading about Mod6 and I'm missing a very important part of the game that will cripple the players and the whole game experience. There is no way to reach the new goals.
This is a free2play game and as I understand it the whole game content is supposed to be available even for the players not paying(?). I understand that without paying, it should take more time to get there but it should still be possible right?
That is not the case with mod6. Even if I would pay a substantial amount of money I wouldn't reach the goals. I'm not doing the math, but think about how much AD is needed for 12s, you need 18 10s start with and another 18 for 11s and then another 36 right for 12s? And maybe you want 12s on your stone so that's even more. I would be homeless if I wanted to pay for it with real money.
It took me like a year to get full 10s on my CW (only playing one char) and a year ago it was actually possible to farm for AD a legit way and that is not possible today since all the loot from the dungeons are outdated and everything else is BoP. So today it would take more than a year to get all 10s and at least another 3 years for 12s. And then you have the artifacts bla bla.
Anyway, my point is that a game cant have goals and no way to reach them because that's a broken game that I don't want to play. More and more players are starting to realize these facts and mod6 will be a wake-up call for the rest.
I think we need some information on how this was intended to work. Did anyone actually think about how to reach the goals? I see no information about new loot or new dungeons etc. Sure there is a new level cap from 60 to 70, but 10 levels wont give me enough RP for all 12s or even one 12. Not with the loot-system we have on live.
I like that the artifact equipment can be refined with equipment drops; it would help to either increase the RP one gets for green - blue to at least make it equitable to buy id scrolls. At least double the amount of RP you get for each. That does, in a way, give a another option of 'playing' your way to upgrading the artifact equipment.
Also, as someone who just recently started playing the game, I was extremely disappointed to find that my big reward for leveling up the gauntlets in Dread Ring was 2 peridots from the treasure chest. Certainly, places like this are an opportunity to increase the RP reward, even if you make them bind on equip.
Agreed
Aside from that though, I would also like to add to the suggestion of RP items as PvP rewards as well. :P While this game doesn't prioritize PvP in the slightest, I still feel it is a desirable model in any game interested in both aspects to let the players chose with what game mode they enjoy to progress their characters (PvE vs PvP).
If I could "grind" RP by playing PvP, I would be in heaven... I don't want to be forced to kill mobs + run dungeons to advance. That is why I haven't been playing the past couple months. I simply can't compete in high end PvP the way I want to so I don't PvP and with my limited time I do have to play I don't want to spend it not PvP-ing. Especially not when it would take roughly a month of an hour a day to get to where I need to be on 1 out of 4 artifacts gear pieces under the current system. Yet, I would enjoy doing this in PvP and even try to make more time to PvP as a result.
There should be BIS PVP secondary artifacts (which means that they have the 2 main stats plus a whole lot of tenacity stat) that you can get through playing PVP and are refinenable by glory.
Exactly! Beyond just being more fun for players, this is the big win for Cryptic. Experience is something that has to be EARNED by playing the game. You can't farm it and sell it to another player.
Anytime a player has a transaction that involves a bot, whether it's from a 3rd party website, or via the AH in game, that takes revenue away from Cryptic. Since Refinement is such a major part of advancing your character, if Cryptic can take full control of that process, you can create a fair revenue stream from the components. And that's how they're going to make MORE money off this system, than the current one.
It's a win/win for the players and Cryptic. Players get a system that's more fun for them, and Cryptic gets an opportunity to fairly monetize another portion of the game. I don't think anyone has a problem with people being able to pay for convenience or pay to speed things up, which is exactly the kind of options Cryptic can add to the game via the boosters and other stuff Magenubbie mentioned above.
That's not hard to do. And it should absolutely be done.
A big piece of my system is to allow players to play the way they want, when they want, and how they want, and still feel like they're making progress towards Artifact and Artifact Equipment progression.
1 - Adding AD to the dailys, would help.... Heck I'd even be likely to do shardanar and dread ring dailys again (I have all boons etc in both on my main and no reason to run them) if it would help get the darn artifacts sorted (Got 4 artifacts currently and only managed to get one in the purple, the others are still blue..... and thats My main, I haven't even started with my other 7 toons yet)
2 - Can't see then putting enough value it make a real difference, given the time it takes for an epic dungeon (At least without a decent guild behind you!) but hey, every little helps, right!
3 - Again I can't see them putting a stone in of enough value to make a difference.... but again, every little helps.
4 - Negligible, I can't see many folks who have to actually earn their own money, throwing it after RP, not with how much RP is involved.... those living out of daddys wallet and heavily into PvP, maybe. would have ZERO impact on players like myself, whilst I do use the store, not for that kind of item, I'll do without before I pay for something of that nature.
5 - Absolutely. There is no excuse for this not already being done, if indeed there is an ICD (And it is quite clear there is!) at least be honest about it.
1) The EXP -> RP system would accomplish this with no added effort to balance this. If EXP = RP, then you would earn RP via ALL EXP earned which is HUGE! I think adding RP to dailies would be nice as well, however I dont think itll be enough. Even if they gave an Aquamarine to all dailiy rewards it would be too little IMO.
2) I agree here. DD Chests lvl 60+ should have a minimum of a Black Opal as a reward. Id even say as far as a blood ruby. That would really get ppl farming dungeons.
3) That wont really solve much TBH, even if it was a black opal, thats still what 10k RP every 6+ days? I guess it all adds up but this wont get us anywhere fast.
4) Blood Ruby needs to cost 200 zen. Even at 200 zen with it taking 4,600,000 for a lvl 60 arti-equipment this would cost you 18,400 zen. If 2000 = $20 this would mean a lvl 60 item costs what $184?! See how that is STILL a very high price?
All roads point to an EXP->RP system. I personally think it should JUST be "overflow" EXP, so it only accumulates once your AT max level. But I would also like this EXP->RP to be used for ANY RP, rank 12 enchants, weapon enchants, artifacts, Arti-equip etc. We should collect overflow EXP as RP and be able to use it as RP for anything. This makes the crazy cost of all of this much more attainable but STILL very costly.
As mentioned about all the costs for Zen-> RP should be about 400% less. Yes 400%. Going from 800 zen per blood ruby down to 200 zen would make it MUCH more fair.
THe only liability then would be players would just buy 3rd party AD and convert to zen. So what Cryptic REALLY needs to do is set a "set" Zen:AD price at 1000:1 and re-adjust ALL zen prices to reflect this. Now more ppl will buy direct.
I know it would drastically cut the time and resources needed to reach rank 10s, but they could make up for that by making rank 11 and 12 a lot harder to achieve.
Now, you need to farm in 60s adventure zones with DH to progress, with the experience based system, you'd need to farm daily quests. The system should be aiming at making group content, Skirmishes and DD specifically, more rewarding in terms of progression and scale with the difficulty of the content. Since you are getting very little XP by doing a dungeon, this presents a problem.
Even worse, thanks to Leadership, you could get major progression without even playing the game at all.
Two columns:
Click on an item in either column moves to opposite column.
Maybe an "Add All Enchants" and an "Add All Refining Stones" option to right column.
Then refining wouldn't be such an incredible drudgery.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
would work exactly as gold with auto pickup and all
Yeah this is true, however they will honestly never make any of this meaningful. What players have tried to say is increasing the RP from using actual gear. However the issue is you would need to increase items nearly 50x to produce the desired effects.
Maybe the item level system could play in your favor with this new idea. However if you ever want to make a dungeon run worth it, youll need to make epic items worth like 50k RP for it to matter. Then you run into issues of players just buying those items instead of doing anything.
This is all part of the problem. The time it takes to farm 1 T2 item is like 15-20 minutes in a solid group. Even then its a small chance to earn that item.
Even if you got it then used it to upgrade you Belt for instance, giving you 50k RP even would still be kinda MEH - considering it would be like 1/5th of a level in the 50s range (lvl 54 for instance is about 300k RP).
The only REAL solution I see is to do an EXP system. Then you can ALSO buff up the RP earned from epic items and then ALSO beef up the EXP earned for daily quests associated with dungeons.
If you, for instance, gave 20k EXP as a reward for a daily dungeon. Now you not only earn EXP while farming those mobs, youll get 20k RP at the end from the EXP daily and ONTOP of that would also have an epic item or two to refine for another 20k+.
Thats the only way I see it working.
TLDR: Making items too good defeats the purpose. Just having it be EXP doing give incentive for dungeon running. So doing a combination produces the desired outcome.
Sorry but this sounds to me like another: Game is too hard, make it easier pls! kind of post.
Let me explain my point of view, FTP MMOs that I have played before (including NW) are designed with goals, several of them. For example, in NW you have artifact gear, rank 10 enchantments, max professions, etc. Different sorts of goals to achieve, there are always some goals to achieve for players that take a RIDICULOUS amount of time to complete, so long in fact the average player is not expected to actually complete them, and it serves as a reason to keep playing, because a player without a goal gets bored and stops playing. Now I'm sure you have max professions on many of your chars, but if you're like me, then you probably don't have r10s and legendaries yet. The reason is those goals are designed for the wallet warriors, not for you and me. It serves as a motivation players to spend cash on the game to speed up the process.
Remembering this game is free to play, and some goals are out of our reach unless we dump money on the game, you should set yourself new goals if you didn't plan to pay hundreds of dollars for artifact gear. My goal on my warlock was to have all 9 profession slots and max leadership, I wanted r7s in every slot and I wanted my artifacts and artifacts equipment to epic rank. It took me 3 months and I achieved my goal, because this goal was realistic and achievable for me. For a wallet warrior a realistic goal is all legendaries and all r10s with legendary mounts. For a very casual player his goals might be have black ice gear and jewelcrafting gear with rank 7 enchants in all slots.
If you make the content easy the wallet warriors will have resentment because even the casual players will be running around with legendaries, the game was not designed for this to happen. However, I do agree with your posts many of them, the refining system should change, both the interface and acquiring RP. I think the interface needs to be made smoother, while acquiring RP accessible by other means than grinding monsters with a dragon's hoard enchantment. This system sounds to me like the best suggestion so far by far, and is ideal to the game(Link here). It doesn't make it 'easy' it simple makes it available trough actually playing the game the way you want to.
So in the end, what you say makes sense, if the goal is too high to reach, people will give up on that particular goal. And that's why each class of player has different goals than the others in a MMO.
TL;DR, if you feel your goal is out of reach, make yourself a different new goal that's achievable for you. I also think the refining system should change to something smoother.
Side Note: My new goal is to work professions and my new army of alts to 20 leadership and save up ADs/RP/Coal wards for what's coming out in mod 6
What is your goal?
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread