they don't only run away when soulforge is up. it's a mix of on-off node contesting where they are mostly in control of whether or not they actually die.
if they realize they can't beat the person guarding home node, then they will just harass you off-node where you will have even greater difficulty finding them or wait til you leave and jump on the node while you get caught up in a fight at mid.
That may have been the case in mod 4, but considering the damage boost received, there isn't much need for on-off node contesting unless it's a 2v1 against the TR. In even this case, in live, the TR seemed to have significant advantages, even taking out both people that came to take him out. Case in point: http://www.twitch.tv/crollax/c/5651535 starting around the 11 min mark.
This change certainly makes it harder to 2v1, but then again, virtually no class can survive a 2v1 against experienced players.
In a 1v1 node contesting, this just takes away uncounterable harassment. The TR can still harass, they just might need to dodge away to run out the timer, or go in and simply take the kill.
In any case, why are they so set in their ways and refuse to experiment with a TR in mid?
Although deadshot is an exceptional hr, my guildmate Artemis now clears trs with little issue , the fact is disruptive shot is the fastest animation in game, all the hr has to do is dodge 1 gloaming cut and he has a guaranteed rotation
I'll personally show how I can easily replicate this on my hr
Im pretty confident my gwf will clear trs now
I'm positive if I rolled a dps dc I'd clear trs
I'm positive I'd clear a tr on my gf
CW still falls prey
SW remains to be seen
All of this success I know I'll have comes from actually knowing a tr and all many weak spots in the trs rotation
Side note, LOL ITC BUG STILL NOT FIXED, and we take a nerf before it's fixed
They should've never brought this reveal <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> into the picture, they should've buffed the other classes instead even if it means the same result in those 1v1s
The New stealth feels ungraceful and clunky
buff the other classes and create new unbalance problems? We know what the problem is, why not just fix it? Yes most classes can not fight against a tr 1v1, so?
every class can clear a gf. really hard for a SW to do it.
every class can clear a dc cleric, but not a healing onces. But it is acceptable because they can not kill you.
SW suck
Every class can clear a cw
not every class can clear a hr
every class can clear a gwf except SW(imo)
buff the other classes and create new unbalance problems? We know what the problem is, why not just fix it? Yes most classes can not fight against a tr 1v1, so?
every class can clear a gf. really hard for a SW to do it.
every class can clear a dc cleric, but not a healing onces. But it is acceptable because they can not kill you.
SW suck
Every class can clear a cw
not every class can clear a hr
every class can clear a gwf except SW(imo)
When I say this I mean at max potential, this will happen the supreme majority of the time
Hrs are still really strong because of the glyphs and multi procs from CA but, so what if everyone class has a chance to clear a tr? isn't that what balance is? Equal chances of winning if you don't take into account gear and skill level.
Really? that is a lie. you will have to prove it man. I normally don't ask for proof but i know for a fact that what you just stated is a lie.
PROVE IT!? Gladly, how about this godmode since you seem pretty unconvinced about my talents, you roll, or borrow anyones TR, and I'll use any class you pick that I stated would win, and we can tap off and go best of 10
PROVE IT!? Gladly, how about this godmode since you seem pretty unconvinced about my talents, you roll, or borrow anyones TR, and I'll use any class you pick that I stated would win, and we can tap off and go best of 10
from what you say we should be 50/50 no?
i don't think that scenario can happen. And are you saying that you can beat the other classes but other trs can't so that is why a nerf was not needed? i didn't think we were talking about you personally.
i don't think that scenario can happen. And are you saying that you can beat the other classes but other trs can't so that is why a nerf was not needed? i didn't think we were talking about you personally.
Not completely, but lets fancy a thought
As I stated, my TR's K/D is an exception is derived from a completely loathe of dying, you have seen my hatred of death first hand godmode
now lets look at the other premade TR's
Crollax 1800 / 300
Nocturnal 3700 / 250
These K/D's are from premades and Pug matches and probably represent the mark a TR wants to reach
however you have to understand that 60% to 70% of these kills come from pug matches, and if you took a straight composite of only premade matches, their K/DS will struggle to be positive
Now with this change to stealth, in a true match with BiS gear on both ends, TR will get cleared by anyone that has ever truly practiced vs a tr before
Sobek & Allt are a prime example of what happens when you actually practice vs TR's, and they do more then fine without the reveal nonesense
So why, instead of challenging players to practice and reach this skill level , are we catering to low skilled players and coddling them so that no practice is necessesary?
with the new changes, TR has a disadvantage vs the majority of classes, the only hope left is SE, and do you really think the damage left with SE will last? No. This will be nerfed again, as will the majority of damage TR has now
and what does that mean when its over?
Not only will all our damage be stripped, but now TR's won't even have stealth that you can call "defense"
To say the least, if I don't defend my class, it seems like no one will, and why is that?
Because all the real TR's left in the previous modules do to the countless amount of bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> we've had to deal with.
Not only will all our damage be stripped, but now TR's won't even have stealth that you can call "defense"
To say the least, if I don't defend my class, it seems like no one will, and why is that?
Because all the real TR's left in the previous modules do to the countless amount of bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> we've had to deal with.
pfft, what makes you think it will stop there. they won't stop asking for nerfs until our run-speed, dazes, deflect chance, deflect severity, itc, and lashing blade are all nerfed
As I stated, my TR's K/D is an exception is derived from a completely loathe of dying, you have seen my hatred of death first hand godmode
now lets look at the other premade TR's
Crollax 1800 / 300
Nocturnal 3700 / 250
These K/D's are from premades and Pug matches and probably represent the mark a TR wants to reach
however you have to understand that 60% to 70% of these kills come from pug matches, and if you took a straight composite of only premade matches, their K/DS will struggle to be positive
Now with this change to stealth, in a true match with BiS gear on both ends, TR will get cleared by anyone that has ever truly practiced vs a tr before
Sobek & Allt are a prime example of what happens when you actually practice vs TR's, and they do more then fine without the reveal nonesense
So why, instead of challenging players to practice and reach this skill level , are we catering to low skilled players and coddling them so that no practice is necessesary?
with the new changes, TR has a disadvantage vs the majority of classes, the only hope left is SE, and do you really think the damage left with SE will last? No. This will be nerfed again, as will the majority of damage TR has now
and what does that mean when its over?
Not only will all our damage be stripped, but now TR's won't even have stealth that you can call "defense"
To say the least, if I don't defend my class, it seems like no one will, and why is that?
Because all the real TR's left in the previous modules do to the countless amount of bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> we've had to deal with.
the leaderboard doesn't really mean much to me it is the other guy. But there you have it, you called a 1v2 again. I saw those guys fight brollax also and he killed both of them once. but the majority of the time they won. In a 1v1 neither of them stood a chance. I think i have met you once in this mod and bb just vaporized me, but not to spit on your talents, every tr does the same.
the leaderboard doesn't really mean much to me it is the other guy. But there you have it, you called a 1v2 again. I saw those guys fight brollax also and he killed both of them once. but the majority of the time they won. In a 1v1 neither of them stood a chance. I think i have met you once in this mod and bb just vaporized me, but not to spit on your talents, every tr does the same.
YEs dude and I completely agree, the dailies were WTF!
But if you scaled those back, then what? We'd be just fine
The dailies were the only chance we had at clearing that 1v2, now it will just be survival IF there was no stealth reveal
False? Dude, you might not be experienced then, all the people I play with on the BIS level have little to no difficulty knowing where a rogue is in stealth.
If these players have "little to no" difficulty locating a stealth rogue, a 2s reveal shouldn't change much.
That may have been the case in mod 4, but considering the damage boost received, there isn't much need for on-off node contesting unless it's a 2v1 against the TR. In even this case, in live, the TR seemed to have significant advantages, even taking out both people that came to take him out. Case in point: http://www.twitch.tv/crollax/c/5651535 starting around the 11 min mark.
This change certainly makes it harder to 2v1, but then again, virtually no class can survive a 2v1 against experienced players.
In a 1v1 node contesting, this just takes away uncounterable harassment. The TR can still harass, they just might need to dodge away to run out the timer, or go in and simply take the kill.
In any case, why are they so set in their ways and refuse to experiment with a TR in mid?
think you can put that on something other than twitch? seems to hate me for some reason since it won't load on chrome, firefox, or opera.
trogdoor247Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited December 2014
After reading 9 pages through this thread it seems like the 2 major themes are:
1) TRs want more perma-stealth.
2) TRs want to be able to win 2v1.
More Perma? I though the loudest haters of the perma build was TRs themselves. Something about running circles around a node was lame. You fought to get rid of it and now you are fighting to get it back?
Win 2v1? Me too but why are you fighting to add another OP class into the mix? It seems counterproductive to an effort to balance PVP.
Good thing i didn't wasted my cash buying Zen.
We just simply can't support a game that treats you as ****ty girlfried that always gets cheated.
I srs don't understand what is on the heads of the devs!
TR needs to have DAMAGE reduction, not STEALTH REMOVAL.
Ppl forget that not everyone have/use ITC
Ppl forget that one prone and we're dead
Ppl forget that one Entangle or Icy we're dead
Ppl forget that if we EVER miss one skill, we're dead
Ppl forget that we have the lowest defense/HP for a melee class
Ppl forget that no one want us for PvE, now even less than 0
101% of the people saying hooray to the nerfs are just a bunch of noobs that can't predict when a TR is comming... its so lame. When CW was OP, it was ok. When GWF was OP, just L2P.
But now that TR is finnaly BALANCED and BACK TO THE GAME, ppl start crying until they DESTROY our class.
Do you know what a rogue mean?
"Unmatched, unrivaled, untopped, burst and sustained SINGLE TARGET damage."
"Strike from the Shadows"
First CW and GWFs takes our top DPS charts.
Now why use stealth? We are now forced into a Dzing Strike/ITC/Lashing on an Exec tree. Stealth use LB and pray that hit someone with 1 hit, otherwise we're dead!
You need to realize that these changes don't affect the TRs with 22k GS... they dont need stealth to kill anyone, a single LB with 40k damage is enough. But they hit simple players, like me. That plays casualy and for fun. Ppl like me, with no ridiculous amounts of GS... our Lashing Blade doesnt hit high enough and once we hit it... we're over. Whats the point of playing TR then? We're getting worse than we were on mod4 Thanks
You so sweet my little friend. 1. Ppl cannot forget 1 shot from 15k pug on full BIS 50+ K hp on tank classes.
Wrong. Do some MATH. Even with Exe, Stealth and First Strike, a 15k TR cannot 1-shot a tank. Stop with the lies.
2.Ppl have all rights to see who strikes them.
Ok but, if they see us, why stealth anyway?
3. TR's still have 543567 rolls.
Its 4. And takes time to recover.
4. TR's still have long time daze. MUST BE LOW DOWN BY HALF.
Other classes has prone, Stun... what DAZE near Prone bro?
5. Top geared TR's will be more then fine enough but happy to see them crying)
yes they will, but how about us? "normal, 15k GS" ones? Are we now forced to pay thousand of dollars just to get 22k GS and be able to play with the class competite?
You know, for someone playing since 2013 you seem pretty biased and scared. Either the class you liked got a huge nerf or you just play really terrible to get one shoted by a 15k GS TR, which is impossible.
The changes in stealth mechanic is so dumb I don't know who's idea is this sometimes they should spend researching other MMO how they cope with stealth example some MMO a wizard has a true sight skill. to counter any stealth. but not all class, its like giving all class free true sight and that lead us to be a clown. We spend a lot of time doing clowning in mod 3 and 4. I don't know if I could still swallow it this time. Better take it of the stealth completely and give us mechanics like GWF have or GF or HR if thats the cause of the problem but changing our mechanic to be useless is unforgiving.
Normal 15k gs TR hits 50+K on full sent 25k gs. Like your mates like to say L2P son)
PS : how about ppl playing other classes already invested money, got all legendary and getting slaughter from average tr's? This is your true vision?
PS 2: take GWF's stuns and give us your daze.
PS 3: take GWF's unstoppable and give us your stealth.
PS 4: take GWF's sprint and give us your rolls.
PS 5: PUT DOWN THE WEED BOY)
I have 18k gs I could not kill a gwf with 25k GS you are just making story.
Comments
That may have been the case in mod 4, but considering the damage boost received, there isn't much need for on-off node contesting unless it's a 2v1 against the TR. In even this case, in live, the TR seemed to have significant advantages, even taking out both people that came to take him out. Case in point: http://www.twitch.tv/crollax/c/5651535 starting around the 11 min mark.
This change certainly makes it harder to 2v1, but then again, virtually no class can survive a 2v1 against experienced players.
In a 1v1 node contesting, this just takes away uncounterable harassment. The TR can still harass, they just might need to dodge away to run out the timer, or go in and simply take the kill.
In any case, why are they so set in their ways and refuse to experiment with a TR in mid?
every class can clear a gf. really hard for a SW to do it.
every class can clear a dc cleric, but not a healing onces. But it is acceptable because they can not kill you.
SW suck
Every class can clear a cw
not every class can clear a hr
every class can clear a gwf except SW(imo)
When I say this I mean at max potential, this will happen the supreme majority of the time
Still not bringing up your K/D ratio here. Over 2200 kills, only 43 deaths, 1 month into mod 5.
Another statistic, 43 of the top 100 players are TR's.
How do you address these statistics?
PROVE IT!? Gladly, how about this godmode since you seem pretty unconvinced about my talents, you roll, or borrow anyones TR, and I'll use any class you pick that I stated would win, and we can tap off and go best of 10
from what you say we should be 50/50 no?
Not completely, but lets fancy a thought
As I stated, my TR's K/D is an exception is derived from a completely loathe of dying, you have seen my hatred of death first hand godmode
now lets look at the other premade TR's
Crollax 1800 / 300
Nocturnal 3700 / 250
These K/D's are from premades and Pug matches and probably represent the mark a TR wants to reach
however you have to understand that 60% to 70% of these kills come from pug matches, and if you took a straight composite of only premade matches, their K/DS will struggle to be positive
Now with this change to stealth, in a true match with BiS gear on both ends, TR will get cleared by anyone that has ever truly practiced vs a tr before
Sobek & Allt are a prime example of what happens when you actually practice vs TR's, and they do more then fine without the reveal nonesense
So why, instead of challenging players to practice and reach this skill level , are we catering to low skilled players and coddling them so that no practice is necessesary?
with the new changes, TR has a disadvantage vs the majority of classes, the only hope left is SE, and do you really think the damage left with SE will last? No. This will be nerfed again, as will the majority of damage TR has now
and what does that mean when its over?
Not only will all our damage be stripped, but now TR's won't even have stealth that you can call "defense"
To say the least, if I don't defend my class, it seems like no one will, and why is that?
Because all the real TR's left in the previous modules do to the countless amount of bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> we've had to deal with.
pfft, what makes you think it will stop there. they won't stop asking for nerfs until our run-speed, dazes, deflect chance, deflect severity, itc, and lashing blade are all nerfed
YEs dude and I completely agree, the dailies were WTF!
But if you scaled those back, then what? We'd be just fine
The dailies were the only chance we had at clearing that 1v2, now it will just be survival IF there was no stealth reveal
If these players have "little to no" difficulty locating a stealth rogue, a 2s reveal shouldn't change much.
Besides the fact that now instead of dying if no one can rotate to you, you die regardless
think you can put that on something other than twitch? seems to hate me for some reason since it won't load on chrome, firefox, or opera.
1) TRs want more perma-stealth.
2) TRs want to be able to win 2v1.
More Perma? I though the loudest haters of the perma build was TRs themselves. Something about running circles around a node was lame. You fought to get rid of it and now you are fighting to get it back?
Win 2v1? Me too but why are you fighting to add another OP class into the mix? It seems counterproductive to an effort to balance PVP.
We just simply can't support a game that treats you as ****ty girlfried that always gets cheated.
I srs don't understand what is on the heads of the devs!
TR needs to have DAMAGE reduction, not STEALTH REMOVAL.
Ppl forget that not everyone have/use ITC
Ppl forget that one prone and we're dead
Ppl forget that one Entangle or Icy we're dead
Ppl forget that if we EVER miss one skill, we're dead
Ppl forget that we have the lowest defense/HP for a melee class
Ppl forget that no one want us for PvE, now even less than 0
101% of the people saying hooray to the nerfs are just a bunch of noobs that can't predict when a TR is comming... its so lame. When CW was OP, it was ok. When GWF was OP, just L2P.
But now that TR is finnaly BALANCED and BACK TO THE GAME, ppl start crying until they DESTROY our class.
Do you know what a rogue mean?
"Unmatched, unrivaled, untopped, burst and sustained SINGLE TARGET damage."
"Strike from the Shadows"
First CW and GWFs takes our top DPS charts.
Now why use stealth? We are now forced into a Dzing Strike/ITC/Lashing on an Exec tree. Stealth use LB and pray that hit someone with 1 hit, otherwise we're dead!
You need to realize that these changes don't affect the TRs with 22k GS... they dont need stealth to kill anyone, a single LB with 40k damage is enough. But they hit simple players, like me. That plays casualy and for fun. Ppl like me, with no ridiculous amounts of GS... our Lashing Blade doesnt hit high enough and once we hit it... we're over. Whats the point of playing TR then? We're getting worse than we were on mod4 Thanks
You know, for someone playing since 2013 you seem pretty biased and scared. Either the class you liked got a huge nerf or you just play really terrible to get one shoted by a 15k GS TR, which is impossible.
I have 18k gs I could not kill a gwf with 25k GS you are just making story.
Why can't devs let 16k gs tr kill all 20k gs players:(