That's exactly why I said use Dazing Strike, to prevent the counter (which is now possible due to the reveal). In any case, TR's still have plenty of Deflect and Deflect Severity. Whisperknife won't have ITC, but that just means it follows a different tactic.
Uh, EoA people have said that the stealth is BS. Exodus people have called the stealth BS. How is the K/D not indicative of the *overly extreme and uncounterable* capabilities of stealth on live server? Not even talking about place on leaderboard, just raw data upon all TR's amongst the Invincible Overlord Rank.
Let's talk about *your K/D ratio*. Apparently you're NOT doing the "hide to inflate your K/D" and yet your K/D is at a staggering 2287/43 from 171 total matches. You're from Absolute, so surely you fight pure premades all the time, and you're telling me that fighting the best of the best, a good 1 month into mod 5, you haven't even died 50 times.Then you have the nerve to say people can easily find you in stealth.
I've had numerous Dazing->Lashing, and the infamous Dazing->Daily. You have plenty of combos, it's just that now you have a counter.
Btw, a dps DC is not a healing DC. I guess you should pick targets more carefully or use a different tactic.
It applies here, I mean you are in Absolute and fight mostly in premades, right? So then your k/d in those conditions should be reflective how how PvP is functioning among the best of the best, correct?
1. No they're not flawed, because I've taken them to the face and they're quite annoying. Maybe you should get some tips from Nocturnal?
2. My graphics are on the highest they can be. And it doesn't even matter because the range at which they can be targeted is just a little less than the range at which they can attack. And if you haven't stuck them with an ability that would outline them in stealth, they simply just jump and roll around being completely untargetable, using ITC should they get sloppy. Btw, to reiterate again right here:Let's talk about *your K/D ratio*. Apparently you're NOT doing the "hide to inflate your K/D" and yet your K/D is at a staggering 2287/43 from 171 total matches. You're from Absolute, so surely you fight pure premades all the time, and you're telling me that fighting the best of the best, a good 1 month into mod 5, you haven't even died 50 times.Then you have the nerve to say people can easily find you in stealth.
3. Ok so you say the Dazing->anything else combo is flawed in #1 of this very list. Now you're saying that you deserve to have it. Pick one and only one. And you're ignoring that you can still land it as you have the advantage of the first attack. You are stealthed to all targets until your first attack and only visible to your target after that attack. Stealth (100% crit) still applies to you.
Scoundrel is more about lockdown, yet it still provides ample Damage against targets with inherently low defensive stats. Executioner has extreme piercing damage in the form of Shadow of Demise. I guarantee you that an Executioner + any class with a stun/CC will take out a healing DC.
Once again, you're stealthed prior to your first attack, giving you the advantage of making the first strike, and you're only visible for 2 seconds only to your target.
First and foremost my K/D is an exception, and not based on premades either, my 43 deaths all come from real premades and 0 from pugs.
I honestly don't care what you think about stealth because not only do I know how much of a falsity stealth is, I have trained people to notice it as well, In fact the top two teams on the server constantly train 2 classes to deal with stealth with near effortless ease (with the exception of the daily damage trs used to have). Anyone who cannot mimic the results hasn't practiced enough, and if you think that you should win without practice, your a self entitled brat.
As it stands with the recent reveal changes,trs went from top 1v1 class to barely the middle man, that is a HUGE drastic change which is again based on taking more skill out of the game
Sometimes I wonder If everyone just wants to convert back to the click and cast of WoW
And the dazing combo that you mentioned is again, easily countered, And with the stealth changes,if they deflect any of the dazes your tr just got whacked because of something left up to chance and out of The trs control
Well, I guess it's time for HR to return to it's status of godmode class, our 3 weeks were fun while they lasted
Attacking just makes you visible to the target you attacked. Stealth being whittled down is still necessary to make you visible to everyone else. Second, certain abilities work off of being in stealth, regardless of whether your target sees you, so wearing down stealth also restricts access to those.
And reworking Tenacious Concealment seems unnecessary, as it's still quite effective at helping you remain unseen against people other than the ones you attack.
You remain in stealth even though the target sees you. That means the feats that trigger off of stealth should still work, it's just that using all those abilities became less easy, which is entirely good. Just learn how to play it out before complaining about it.
That seems intentional, as the patch notes imply that: Shadowy Opportunity: This feat no longer improperly triggers multiple times on channeled powers such as Bloodbath. Duelist's Flurry probably falls in the same category.
so duelist flurry full depletes a stealth bar but it applies once shadowy opportunity......wai you say??
so lets consider it just an at will strike
So ofc tr's can lose now and can still beat people. But just to put you trs are ease. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDcC_MGk3k&feature=youtu.be
This is versus a hr. Smoke bomb still ****s with gf, tr's can still kill just about every class still. So i am confused at what the problem is now. Someone needs to tell me what they want tr's to do.
I have to say this seems like a really clumsy attempt to fix permastealth that lacks any logic and has far-reaching consequences for builds which don't even use permastealth.
So ofc tr's can lose now and can still beat people. But just to put you trs are ease. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDcC_MGk3k&feature=youtu.be
This is versus a hr. Smoke bomb still ****s with gf, tr's can still kill just about every class still. So i am confused at what the problem is now. Someone needs to tell me what they want tr's to do.
every gf i have seen just blocks smoke bomb even when i drop it behind them. i just figured block > smoke bomb
well there you go, if a gf is moving towards you and you are moving towards him and use dazing strike, it would hit them from behind. Also use bb and they get dazed from it.
well there you go, if a gf is moving towards you and you are moving towards him and use dazing strike, it would hit them from behind. Also use bb and they get dazed from it.
well to say it short:
tr is not capable anymore of back cap-ing, find another class to do this job.
for burst tr has unreliable one and when fired off everything has no ways to survive, find another class for this job.
for 1vs1 scoundrel tr can still do something.
just not consider to take a tr to premade with you.
2 of 3 trees are dead.
its fine? is not fine ? i dont know, i knew it we would have ended up more or less the same of mod 4.
First and foremost my K/D is an exception, and not based on premades either, my 43 deaths all come from real premades and 0 from pugs.
So, I will reiterate so people can understand the magnitude of live TR. You have fought the best of the best in PvP in Module 5 for 1 month. And you have died less than 50 times. And you consider this to be balanced. I will point out that also during PuG's most top in Gear people are still susceptible to dying towards multiple people, but it seems you still think you're entitled to being able to 1v2 or 1v3 PuG's in this game
I honestly don't care what you think about stealth because not only do I know how much of a falsity stealth is, I have trained people to notice it as well, In fact the top two teams on the server constantly train 2 classes to deal with stealth with near effortless ease (with the exception of the daily damage trs used to have). Anyone who cannot mimic the results hasn't practiced enough, and if you think that you should win without practice, your a self entitled brat.
You have fought the best of the best in PvP in Module 5 for 1 month. And you have died less than 50 times. And you consider this to be balanced.
As it stands with the recent reveal changes,trs went from top 1v1 class to barely the middle man, that is a HUGE drastic change which is again based on taking more skill out of the game
Dazing Strike->Daily will still be doing considerable amount of damage from stealth. If anything, this is putting more skill in the game as TR's will now have to make more clear judgment calls and be more tactical instead of just button mashing easy kills while not even being targeted due to stealth.
Sometimes I wonder If everyone just wants to convert back to the click and cast of WoW.
Hey, if you want stealth to break on first action, tell them to put it in. That's balanced, forcing the TR to rely on rolls and dodges and timing abilities (skill) than just spamming 100-0 combos while not even being targeted from the safety of stealth.
And the dazing combo that you mentioned is again, easily countered, And with the stealth changes,if they deflect any of the dazes your tr just got whacked because of something left up to chance and out of The trs control
If they spam dodges to try to counter Dazing Strike, then they have no tactical options left in terms of evasion. But, that combo works wonderfully on classes without a high deflect. In any case, you have stealth, you have the first attack, you could very well use lashing as the opener.
Well, I guess it's time for HR to return to it's status of godmode class, our 3 weeks were fun while they lasted
...
HR received nerfs. TR's have gained copious amounts of piercing damage along with Crit and Crit severity.
Before you say "But we can't run away like HR's", is it so hard to just not attack somebody for 2 seconds? To spam evasive dodges to run out the timer and then reenter stealth? I mean, these things would require skill on the rogue. Aren't you about introducing more skill into the game?
At first I thought it wasn't going to be an issue; however I did believe it needed to be brought back from a 2 second reveal to a 1 second reveal, but after playing with the new changes there are a lot of situations that need to be addressed.
First and for most, this change has a lot of clunky attributes the pretty much made any range style of TR impossible to play
Whisper Knife:
Disheartening Strike: If you use this at will, and range class now has the chance to counter attack you from any distance for 2 seconds, this is extremely unfair for this tree's capstone, and due to some classes having some undodgeable CC, will drastically shorten the lifespan of said TR - not to mention this TR also dosen't have ITC.
Master Infiltrator:
Gloaming Cut + sneaky stabber: So every time I gloaming cut I get stealth back right? Not like it matters, because If I gloaming cut someone they now see me..
TR in General
Cloud of steel is now useless, out of stealth it does an average of 500 per hit (with max gear on max gear targets) and in stealth you just reveal your location and drain whats left of your stealth bar while also opening yourself up to counter attack
with the 2 Second reveal (Which also has no cap on range), Doing damage from stealth, basically means the following situation has to happen
Hit, Dodge 2 times untill stealth reveal wheres off, and pray that your target dosent use Icy rays, any form of HR roots, sunburst, Dread theft..fill in the blank
Damage
Bloodbath has been adjusted pretty well, might need a further 10% nerf
SE Still needs to be dropped back a little, again probably 10%
Everything else I think falls together pretty nicely for damage, except for the fact that it means you'll probably die in a competitive premade, or you can run around in circles again with Bait & switch..
My personal suggestion is to rework the stealth reveal so that
A) dosent affect ranged abilities has a range cap so that if the TR hits with a melee ability and walks out of a certain range he regains invisibility
C) Cut down time of reveal (Hr's have the ability to land 3 hits before the reveal leaves.. that basically removes your stealth bar)
or D), Remove this change completely, and nerf over all damage a bit more.
Talking in the spectrum of End Game PvP, this will most likely remove the TR's ability to live longer then a minute on the back cap, which will basically reduce the overall game time of a match.
if the game lasts under 20 minutes, its basically at the point where if you rotate once poorly, you lose. This doesn't foster intelligent team play and cooperation and removes a lot of appeal to PvP in general.
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Pretty much agree with everything here, the dailies needed a nerf it was pretty much broken, now it's more reasonable and balanced. So good job on this. But visible on hit is completely uncalled for.
In previous modules, TR was useless in PVE cos lack of dmg, same applies in PVP, this class needed a bit of overall dmg buff thats all, not even piercing dmg, but making us visible for 2 second on hit pretty much destoryed the build since x3lade's, and the effort and money people putting in to build around stealth. You already made it hard to remain in stealth unlike previously just run around with BnS, now it takes perfect timing and positioning. If you want to stop TR running to boss in dungeons then you should seperate PVE and PVP.
I will vote to remove 2 second visible on hit it already takes patience to time the daze and refill stealth, if you have been pvping in high end bracket, it's not hard to find/follow the TR in stealth with encounter cancellation and Hard target Lock (which needs to be address as well). If you implement this, some of the feats (e.g scoundrel training) and at-will (cloud of steel) useless, not to mention ranged TR build (Whisper knife) will be not be viable at all.
tr is not capable anymore of back cap-ing, find another class to do this job.
for burst tr has unreliable one and when fired off everything has no ways to survive, find another class for this job.
for 1vs1 scoundrel tr can still do something.
just not consider to take a tr to premade with you.
2 of 3 trees are dead.
its fine? is not fine ? i dont know, i knew it we would have ended up more or less the same of mod 4.
in the video that guy was sab spec and it seemed pretty efficient. The thing is that everyone except tr's have a problem with tr's being able to 1v2 and win or survive indefinitely if they chose to. I have played back capper and so have other classes. If you can't handle to 1v2 ask for help.
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Pretty much agree with everything here, the dailies needed a nerf it was pretty much broken, now it's more reasonable and balanced. So good job on this. But visible on hit is completely uncalled for.
In previous modules, TR was useless in PVE cos lack of dmg, same applies in PVP, this class needed a bit of overall dmg buff thats all, not even piercing dmg, but making us visible for 2 second on hit pretty much destoryed the build since x3lade's, and the effort and money people putting in to build around stealth. You already made it hard to remain in stealth unlike previously just run around with BnS, now it takes perfect timing and positioning. If you want to stop TR running to boss in dungeons then you should seperate PVE and PVP.
I will vote to remove 2 second visible on hit it already takes patience to time the daze and refill stealth, if you have been pvping in high end bracket, it's not hard to find/follow the TR in stealth with encounter cancellation and Hard target Lock (which needs to be address as well). If you implement this, some of the feats (e.g scoundrel training) and at-will (cloud of steel) useless, not to mention ranged TR build (Whisper knife) will be not be viable at all.
This hard target lock is still around. I didn't think a lot of people bothered to use it but i am guessing more people started to because of mod5. It is arguable that the person fighting a tr needs more patience, perfect timing, and position. Position is iffy because you are the sitting duck on isn't stealth-ed.
So, I will reiterate so people can understand the magnitude of live TR. You have fought the best of the best in PvP in Module 5 for 1 month. And you have died less than 50 times. And you consider this to be balanced. I will point out that also during PuG's most top in Gear people are still susceptible to dying towards multiple people, but it seems you still think you're entitled to being able to 1v2 or 1v3 PuG's in this game
You have fought the best of the best in PvP in Module 5 for 1 month. And you have died less than 50 times. And you consider this to be balanced.
Dazing Strike->Daily will still be doing considerable amount of damage from stealth. If anything, this is putting more skill in the game as TR's will now have to make more clear judgment calls and be more tactical instead of just button mashing easy kills while not even being targeted due to stealth.
Hey, if you want stealth to break on first action, tell them to put it in. That's balanced, forcing the TR to rely on rolls and dodges and timing abilities (skill) than just spamming 100-0 combos while not even being targeted from the safety of stealth.
If they spam dodges to try to counter Dazing Strike, then they have no tactical options left in terms of evasion. But, that combo works wonderfully on classes without a high deflect. In any case, you have stealth, you have the first attack, you could very well use lashing as the opener.
...
HR received nerfs. TR's have gained copious amounts of piercing damage along with Crit and Crit severity.
Before you say "But we can't run away like HR's", is it so hard to just not attack somebody for 2 seconds? To spam evasive dodges to run out the timer and then reenter stealth? I mean, these things would require skill on the rogue. Aren't you about introducing more skill into the game?
Lol dude, I've had maybe 10 real matches tis module, and I've died an leverage of 4.3 Times every match with people who meet my skill level with only getting 10+ kills in each of those matches based primarily on dailies
And as stated before, why is it that tr has to work twice as hard as any other class to achieve the same outcome? This takes skill away from everyone and makes the tr have to work twice as hard, and anyone who thinks playing a tr is easy mode, I invite them to 1v1 my tr and get a glimpse at what it means to really know how to use a class .
This reveal is nonsense, maybe the perfect compromise would be a reveal but like isuuck2 stated in a different post, making it so that its an untargetable reveal unless you get within range .
I'm not going back to running around in circles all day, and there are far better classes then executioner tr at floating, this nerf will be one of the final nails in the coffin for premade trs... And our numbers are already thin as it is.
P.s as for my K/D where have you been? MyK/D has been the same every module
in the video that guy was sab spec and it seemed pretty efficient. The thing is that everyone except tr's have a problem with tr's being able to 1v2 and win or survive indefinitely if they chose to. I have played back capper and so have other classes. If you can't handle to 1v2 ask for help.
it seems pretty efficient??? the video just show tr can kill with a daily power up.
something that everyone can do.
and about executioner as cleaner on a node..... you probably still have to see a trapper HR xD
Lol dude, I've had maybe 10 real matches tis module, and I've died an leverage of 4.3 Times every match with people who meet my skill level with only getting 10+ kills in each of those matches based primarily on dailies
Yeah, I don't believe you.
And as stated before, why is it that tr has to work twice as hard as any other class to achieve the same outcome? This takes skill away from everyone and makes the tr have to work twice as hard, and anyone who thinks playing a tr is easy mode, I invite them to 1v1 my tr and get a glimpse at what it means to really know how to use a class .
Working twice as hard? It takes no skill to be fully invisible and lay out tons of crits (with piercing damage with your build) in addition to dazes while you can easily roll out of visibility range. It seems that the only people working harder is anybody that's not a TR and then trying to fight a TR. This isn't even mentioning how people are losing 50-90% of their health from Shocking Execution or Bloodbath.
This reveal is nonsense, maybe the perfect compromise would be a reveal but like isuuck2 stated in a different post, making it so that its an untargetable reveal unless you get within range .
No, the reveal makes sense. Because now, your target can actually have some means of defending himself. I think you would find your proposed compromise even worse than current fix as ranged aoe stuns could hit you with a much easier time. But even then, you're being hypocritical because not 2 pages back you said "how does it make sense to be able to see the rogue from 80'?" Pick a stance and stick with it, no matter how nonsensical it may be.
I'm not going back to running around in circles all day, and there are far better classes then executioner tr at floating, this nerf will be one of the final nails in the coffin for premade trs... And our numbers are already thin as it is.
Are you saying that TR's have received no damage boosts in mod 5? That their damage is subpar to the point that only sitting in stealth is viable? 2 pages back you said that TR's are king of single target damage and now you're going to squander that by just sitting around the cap? Really?
In any case, Leaderboard data again. In the top 5 pages (top 100 players), there are 43 Trickster Rogues. Trickster Rogues make up a whopping 43% of the top players. And right now you're saying that TR will disappear from premades? A CW can be countered. An HR can be countered. A DC, a GWF, a GF, and a SW can be countered. All of those (excluding the SW) still have presence in premades. Right now, they're implementing a way so that you can counter a TR. Stop acting like it's the end of the class.
P.s as for my K/D where have you been? MyK/D has been the same every module
Oh jeez, being able to do damage like that means all he's good for is running in circles.
Edit: For anybody coming late to the discussion, the youtube link I posted was a duel between Deadshot and Crollax on the test server with this proposed stealth change in effect. Essentially, it showed Deadshot being taken down to about 10% with a Shocking Execution and then dying to cloud of steel, hence showing my point that the TR is still capable of significant burst and that this stealth change merely adds counterplay.
Working twice as hard? It takes no skill to be fully invisible and lay out tons of crits (with piercing damage with your build) in addition to dazes while you can easily roll out of visibility range. It seems that the only people working harder is anybody that's not a TR and then trying to fight a TR. This isn't even mentioning how people are losing 50-90% of their health from Shocking Execution or Bloodbath.
No, the reveal makes sense. Because now, your target can actually have some means of defending himself. I think you would find your proposed compromise even worse than current fix as ranged aoe stuns could hit you with a much easier time. But even then, you're being hypocritical because not 2 pages back you said "how does it make sense to be able to see the rogue from 80'?" Pick a stance and stick with it, no matter how nonsensical it may be.
Are you saying that TR's have received no damage boosts in mod 5? That their damage is subpar to the point that only sitting in stealth is viable? 2 pages back you said that TR's are king of single target damage and now you're going to squander that by just sitting around the cap? Really?
In any case, Leaderboard data again. In the top 5 pages (top 100 players), there are 43 Trickster Rogues. Trickster Rogues make up a whopping 43% of the top players. And right now you're saying that TR will disappear from premades? A CW can be countered. An HR can be countered. A DC, a GWF, a GF, and a SW can be countered. All of those (excluding the SW) still have presence in premades. Right now, they're implementing a way so that you can counter a TR. Stop acting like it's the end of the class.
Don't believe me? LOL PLEASE, Take me to your fairy land
You just lost the credibility you had with me up to this point, it's obvious now your arguing purely for the sake of being right now
The things you don't believe are well known facts and I have screen shots to support all of that
Done responding to you sir.
Yeah ok, you can't keep up with the hard facts of the leaderboard or the mechanics of this game, and somehow turn this into a "my past leaderboard score is indicative of something".
The fact of the matter is your current standing of the leaderboard, along with that of the class % and overall k/d ratio of the TR is showing that TR has way too much defense for the offense they have gained.
So, after seeing that video, and the pure logic and thought behind much of what I've said about 2 second reveal, you're trying to leave this conversation on the basis of previous leaderboard performance. Leave then, because I'm talking about TR in mod 5, not mod 1, not mod 2, not mod 3, and not mod 4.
Stay on topic, because you have not said one thing in response to anything else I've said.
i don't consider k:d ratios very accurate when it comes to permas. once you proc soulforge, they just stealth and run to a pot or wherever before you can catch them.
now if soulforge counted as a death, then it would be more accurate
i don't consider k:d ratios very accurate when it comes to permas. once you proc soulforge, they just stealth and run to a pot or wherever before you can catch them.
now if soulforge counted as a death, then it would be more accurate
...as well as if leaderboards tracked premade games seperately.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
i don't consider k:d ratios very accurate when it comes to permas. once you proc soulforge, they just stealth and run to a pot or wherever before you can catch them.
now if soulforge counted as a death, then it would be more accurate
my point exactly! There are a bunch of trs- that won't be named - That have an amazing k/d because of this fact, but if you put them in premades they get crushed , and I have many people who will testify to this
As a side note, it's funny how people post YouTube videos as if their dogma and further believe that the skill level of the players in that video are up to par with the top contenders of each class
But back to the facts, stealth is and will always be an illusion, this reveal nonsense caters only to new players that haven't played the game since it's it's inception and wonder why this game happens to be different from all the click and cast games they play. Seriously, anyone who whines about being unable to find a stealth tr loses all credibility in My book , when you practice, tr stealth feels like it's not even there.
In addition, when you take a mechanic catered towards the low skilled and put it in the hands of a skilled individual , "Over powered" and "Broken" attributes start to happen
This is just another prime example of what we shouldn't do, balance the fame from bottom , up.
We need to start at the top with balance and work our way down
i don't consider k:d ratios very accurate when it comes to permas. once you proc soulforge, they just stealth and run to a pot or wherever before you can catch them.
now if soulforge counted as a death, then it would be more accurate
Well taking into account that, a Soulforge has a cooldown of 90 Seconds. This is a testament to the fact that the TR is capable of still surviving that long while dealing damage to those levels because of the lack of countering stealth before this change.
If the TR literally stayed outside of combat or the node for 90 seconds each (few) time he was downed on live, his team would lose the match.
Well taking into account that, a Soulforge has a cooldown of 90 Seconds. This is a testament to the fact that the TR is capable of still surviving that long while dealing damage to those levels because of the lack of countering stealth before this change.
If the TR literally stayed outside of combat or the node for 90 seconds each (few) time he was downed on live, his team would lose the match.
So, the logic still doesn't follow here.
they don't only run away when soulforge is up. it's a mix of on-off node contesting where they are mostly in control of whether or not they actually die.
if they realize they can't beat the person guarding home node, then they will just harass you off-node where you will have even greater difficulty finding them or wait til you leave and jump on the node while you get caught up in a fight at mid.
Although deadshot is an exceptional hr, my guildmate Artemis now clears trs with little issue , the fact is disruptive shot is the fastest animation in game, all the hr has to do is dodge 1 gloaming cut and he has a guaranteed rotation
I'll personally show how I can easily replicate this on my hr
Im pretty confident my gwf will clear trs now
I'm positive if I rolled a dps dc I'd clear trs
I'm positive I'd clear a tr on my gf
CW still falls prey
SW remains to be seen
All of this success I know I'll have comes from actually knowing a tr and all many weak spots in the trs rotation
Side note, LOL ITC BUG STILL NOT FIXED, and we take a nerf before it's fixed
They should've never brought this reveal HAMSTER into the picture, they should've buffed the other classes instead even if it means the same result in those 1v1s
Comments
First and foremost my K/D is an exception, and not based on premades either, my 43 deaths all come from real premades and 0 from pugs.
I honestly don't care what you think about stealth because not only do I know how much of a falsity stealth is, I have trained people to notice it as well, In fact the top two teams on the server constantly train 2 classes to deal with stealth with near effortless ease (with the exception of the daily damage trs used to have). Anyone who cannot mimic the results hasn't practiced enough, and if you think that you should win without practice, your a self entitled brat.
As it stands with the recent reveal changes,trs went from top 1v1 class to barely the middle man, that is a HUGE drastic change which is again based on taking more skill out of the game
Sometimes I wonder If everyone just wants to convert back to the click and cast of WoW
And the dazing combo that you mentioned is again, easily countered, And with the stealth changes,if they deflect any of the dazes your tr just got whacked because of something left up to chance and out of The trs control
Well, I guess it's time for HR to return to it's status of godmode class, our 3 weeks were fun while they lasted
so duelist flurry full depletes a stealth bar but it applies once shadowy opportunity......wai you say??
so lets consider it just an at will strike
This is versus a hr. Smoke bomb still ****s with gf, tr's can still kill just about every class still. So i am confused at what the problem is now. Someone needs to tell me what they want tr's to do.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
every gf i have seen just blocks smoke bomb even when i drop it behind them. i just figured block > smoke bomb
but force them to stay in it with courage breaker.
i rather just get to their back and hit dazing strike. waste of a daily to use that idea.
well to say it short:
tr is not capable anymore of back cap-ing, find another class to do this job.
for burst tr has unreliable one and when fired off everything has no ways to survive, find another class for this job.
for 1vs1 scoundrel tr can still do something.
just not consider to take a tr to premade with you.
2 of 3 trees are dead.
its fine? is not fine ? i dont know, i knew it we would have ended up more or less the same of mod 4.
So, I will reiterate so people can understand the magnitude of live TR. You have fought the best of the best in PvP in Module 5 for 1 month. And you have died less than 50 times. And you consider this to be balanced. I will point out that also during PuG's most top in Gear people are still susceptible to dying towards multiple people, but it seems you still think you're entitled to being able to 1v2 or 1v3 PuG's in this game
You have fought the best of the best in PvP in Module 5 for 1 month. And you have died less than 50 times. And you consider this to be balanced.
Dazing Strike->Daily will still be doing considerable amount of damage from stealth. If anything, this is putting more skill in the game as TR's will now have to make more clear judgment calls and be more tactical instead of just button mashing easy kills while not even being targeted due to stealth.
Hey, if you want stealth to break on first action, tell them to put it in. That's balanced, forcing the TR to rely on rolls and dodges and timing abilities (skill) than just spamming 100-0 combos while not even being targeted from the safety of stealth.
If they spam dodges to try to counter Dazing Strike, then they have no tactical options left in terms of evasion. But, that combo works wonderfully on classes without a high deflect. In any case, you have stealth, you have the first attack, you could very well use lashing as the opener.
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HR received nerfs. TR's have gained copious amounts of piercing damage along with Crit and Crit severity.
Before you say "But we can't run away like HR's", is it so hard to just not attack somebody for 2 seconds? To spam evasive dodges to run out the timer and then reenter stealth? I mean, these things would require skill on the rogue. Aren't you about introducing more skill into the game?
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Pretty much agree with everything here, the dailies needed a nerf it was pretty much broken, now it's more reasonable and balanced. So good job on this. But visible on hit is completely uncalled for.
In previous modules, TR was useless in PVE cos lack of dmg, same applies in PVP, this class needed a bit of overall dmg buff thats all, not even piercing dmg, but making us visible for 2 second on hit pretty much destoryed the build since x3lade's, and the effort and money people putting in to build around stealth. You already made it hard to remain in stealth unlike previously just run around with BnS, now it takes perfect timing and positioning. If you want to stop TR running to boss in dungeons then you should seperate PVE and PVP.
I will vote to remove 2 second visible on hit it already takes patience to time the daze and refill stealth, if you have been pvping in high end bracket, it's not hard to find/follow the TR in stealth with encounter cancellation and Hard target Lock (which needs to be address as well). If you implement this, some of the feats (e.g scoundrel training) and at-will (cloud of steel) useless, not to mention ranged TR build (Whisper knife) will be not be viable at all.
Lol dude, I've had maybe 10 real matches tis module, and I've died an leverage of 4.3 Times every match with people who meet my skill level with only getting 10+ kills in each of those matches based primarily on dailies
And as stated before, why is it that tr has to work twice as hard as any other class to achieve the same outcome? This takes skill away from everyone and makes the tr have to work twice as hard, and anyone who thinks playing a tr is easy mode, I invite them to 1v1 my tr and get a glimpse at what it means to really know how to use a class .
This reveal is nonsense, maybe the perfect compromise would be a reveal but like isuuck2 stated in a different post, making it so that its an untargetable reveal unless you get within range .
I'm not going back to running around in circles all day, and there are far better classes then executioner tr at floating, this nerf will be one of the final nails in the coffin for premade trs... And our numbers are already thin as it is.
P.s as for my K/D where have you been? MyK/D has been the same every module
I still think TR need dmg nerf on pvp, becouse 40-50k from SE every 30 second is greatly exaggerated
it seems pretty efficient??? the video just show tr can kill with a daily power up.
something that everyone can do.
and about executioner as cleaner on a node..... you probably still have to see a trapper HR xD
all the day in ptr after the change, didnt see you not even a min.
what are you talking about? what did you tested? whats your in game tr?
Trust me (or not), I've tested enough.
Yeah, I don't believe you.
Working twice as hard? It takes no skill to be fully invisible and lay out tons of crits (with piercing damage with your build) in addition to dazes while you can easily roll out of visibility range. It seems that the only people working harder is anybody that's not a TR and then trying to fight a TR. This isn't even mentioning how people are losing 50-90% of their health from Shocking Execution or Bloodbath.
No, the reveal makes sense. Because now, your target can actually have some means of defending himself. I think you would find your proposed compromise even worse than current fix as ranged aoe stuns could hit you with a much easier time. But even then, you're being hypocritical because not 2 pages back you said "how does it make sense to be able to see the rogue from 80'?" Pick a stance and stick with it, no matter how nonsensical it may be.
Are you saying that TR's have received no damage boosts in mod 5? That their damage is subpar to the point that only sitting in stealth is viable? 2 pages back you said that TR's are king of single target damage and now you're going to squander that by just sitting around the cap? Really?
In any case, Leaderboard data again. In the top 5 pages (top 100 players), there are 43 Trickster Rogues. Trickster Rogues make up a whopping 43% of the top players. And right now you're saying that TR will disappear from premades? A CW can be countered. An HR can be countered. A DC, a GWF, a GF, and a SW can be countered. All of those (excluding the SW) still have presence in premades. Right now, they're implementing a way so that you can counter a TR. Stop acting like it's the end of the class.
Once again, don't believe you. Btw, about your comment about HR being top again, see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDcC_MGk3
Oh jeez, being able to do damage like that means all he's good for is running in circles.
Edit: For anybody coming late to the discussion, the youtube link I posted was a duel between Deadshot and Crollax on the test server with this proposed stealth change in effect. Essentially, it showed Deadshot being taken down to about 10% with a Shocking Execution and then dying to cloud of steel, hence showing my point that the TR is still capable of significant burst and that this stealth change merely adds counterplay.
Second Edit: The link is now updated here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDcC_MGk3k
Don't believe me? LOL PLEASE, Take me to your fairy land
You just lost the credibility you had with me up to this point, it's obvious now your arguing purely for the sake of being right now
The things you don't believe are well known facts and I have screen shots to support all of that
Done responding to you sir.
Yeah ok, you can't keep up with the hard facts of the leaderboard or the mechanics of this game, and somehow turn this into a "my past leaderboard score is indicative of something".
The fact of the matter is your current standing of the leaderboard, along with that of the class % and overall k/d ratio of the TR is showing that TR has way too much defense for the offense they have gained.
So, after seeing that video, and the pure logic and thought behind much of what I've said about 2 second reveal, you're trying to leave this conversation on the basis of previous leaderboard performance. Leave then, because I'm talking about TR in mod 5, not mod 1, not mod 2, not mod 3, and not mod 4.
Stay on topic, because you have not said one thing in response to anything else I've said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDcC_MGk3k
now if soulforge counted as a death, then it would be more accurate
...as well as if leaderboards tracked premade games seperately.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
As a side note, it's funny how people post YouTube videos as if their dogma and further believe that the skill level of the players in that video are up to par with the top contenders of each class
But back to the facts, stealth is and will always be an illusion, this reveal nonsense caters only to new players that haven't played the game since it's it's inception and wonder why this game happens to be different from all the click and cast games they play. Seriously, anyone who whines about being unable to find a stealth tr loses all credibility in My book , when you practice, tr stealth feels like it's not even there.
In addition, when you take a mechanic catered towards the low skilled and put it in the hands of a skilled individual , "Over powered" and "Broken" attributes start to happen
This is just another prime example of what we shouldn't do, balance the fame from bottom , up.
We need to start at the top with balance and work our way down
Well taking into account that, a Soulforge has a cooldown of 90 Seconds. This is a testament to the fact that the TR is capable of still surviving that long while dealing damage to those levels because of the lack of countering stealth before this change.
If the TR literally stayed outside of combat or the node for 90 seconds each (few) time he was downed on live, his team would lose the match.
So, the logic still doesn't follow here.
they don't only run away when soulforge is up. it's a mix of on-off node contesting where they are mostly in control of whether or not they actually die.
if they realize they can't beat the person guarding home node, then they will just harass you off-node where you will have even greater difficulty finding them or wait til you leave and jump on the node while you get caught up in a fight at mid.
I'll personally show how I can easily replicate this on my hr
Im pretty confident my gwf will clear trs now
I'm positive if I rolled a dps dc I'd clear trs
I'm positive I'd clear a tr on my gf
CW still falls prey
SW remains to be seen
All of this success I know I'll have comes from actually knowing a tr and all many weak spots in the trs rotation
Side note, LOL ITC BUG STILL NOT FIXED, and we take a nerf before it's fixed
They should've never brought this reveal HAMSTER into the picture, they should've buffed the other classes instead even if it means the same result in those 1v1s
The New stealth feels ungraceful and clunky