I have. I've seen Tiamat instances fail, that could have been successes if the team only had 5 more seconds. I've also seen Tiamat instances succeed with less than 5 seconds to spare. Of course these were not entirely the fault (or credit is not entirely due) to one single character, TR or otherwise. But if we had had mod4 TRs instead, those 5-seconds-to-spare successes very well might have been failures. And this is besides the fact that not every single TR on the server is an end-game one fighting Tiamat. What about the ones who are still gearing up? It's clear you and the rest of the PVP crew don't give a **** about them.
Like you said, there were lots of variables in leading to an instance succeeding or failing. Perhaps one other thing you didn't mention was efficiently keeping the clerics safe. Trapping the mobs and using smokebomb could've saved those 5 seconds. Who knows what lead to those 5 seconds.
Right now with the current PVE state (Tiamat and Well of Dragons), I do not see a big reason for outcry if the TR's dps is nerfed (particularly BloodBath and Shocking Execution). TRs are still better off than DCs or GFs or GWFs. It balances PVP by A LOT without affecting PVE too much. It is a balancing act yes. A more clean method would be to separate PVP skills from PVE skills but with this team, that isn't possible sadly.
Right now with the current PVE state (Tiamat and Well of Dragons), I do not see a big reason for outcry if the TR's dps is nerfed (particularly BloodBath and Shocking Execution).
Well of course you don't because all you care about is PVP and you don't give a **** about PVE.
You're basically saying "screw you" to 90% of the players. Which, to be honest, I wouldn't expect anything more from a PVP bootlicker such as yourself.
Please explain to the 10k TRs still gearing up that they have to struggle more in acquiring their gear because of of 20k PVP premades.
Well of course you don't because all you care about is PVP and you don't give a **** about PVE.
Look at Tiamat. It is a zergfest. One person's DPS has not carried such little weight as it did today in this game than ever before. Well of dragons doesn't even need your DPS since you ride around on your mount across the map. Also, you realize that DCs and GFs and GWFs are in a worse situation right? What does that say about them then? If they are able to survive, then nerfing PVP TRs with little side-effects to PVE TRs would be the next best possible solution (best solution is to separate PVP and PVE skills).
You're basically saying "screw you" to 90% of the players. Which, to be honest, I wouldn't expect anything more from a PVP bootlicker such as yourself.
Please avoid the name-calling. And no, as per my paragraph above, with the state of PVE, PVP and loot progression, this is the best compromise in my opinion.
Please explain to the 10k TRs still gearing up that they have to struggle more in acquiring their gear because of of 20k PVP premades.
I will say sorry for Cryptic systematically making PVE farming worthless so it is almost impossible to earn millions and millions of diamonds farming CN anymore. (unlike when completely f2P players where able to garner 10mil AD with no credit card required)
Also, sorry for Cryptic making refinement stones BOA so that the prices will quadruple in the coming weeks.
A stack of black opals right now is hovering near the 3mil mark. Double refinement won't even come out in 2 weeks. It used to be 500k.
Look at Tiamat. It is a zergfest. One person's DPS has not carried such little weight as it did today in this game than ever before. Well of dragons doesn't even need your DPS since you ride around on your mount across the map. Also, you realize that DCs and GFs and GWFs are in a worse situation right? What does that say about them then? If they are able to survive, then nerfing PVP TRs with little side-effects to PVE TRs would be the next best possible solution (best solution is to separate PVP and PVE skills).
GF is not a DPS class. DC other than Righteous is not a DPS class. And Righteous DC is absolutely competitive with TR. By contrast, TR is a DPS class. Comparing those three is not reasonable and you know it.
And about the only thing I can agree with you on is that GWF needs some help. But the solution isn't to nerf TR downwards.
The best solution is to completely separate the PVP and PVE games.
Please avoid the name-calling. And no, as per my paragraph above, with the state of PVE, PVP and loot progression, this is the best compromise in my opinion.
If the boot fits...
Well of course YOU find it the "best compromise" because you don't have to suffer any of the downsides of this compromise. YOU don't play a 10k PVE TR, do you? How noble of you to offer a "compromise" that has zero downsides to you.
I will say sorry for Cryptic systematically making PVE farming worthless so it is almost impossible to earn millions and millions of diamonds farming CN anymore. (unlike when completely f2P players where able to garner 10mil AD with no credit card required)
Also, sorry for Cryptic making refinement stones BOA so that the prices will quadruple in the coming weeks.
A stack of black opals right now is hovering near the 3mil mark. Double refinement won't even come out in 2 weeks. It used to be 500k.
YOU are the one demanding nerfs of others so that your place of privilege in PVP can remain. That is not Cryptic's fault. It is yours. PVE farming and RP have nothing to do with it.
GF is not a DPS class. DC other than Righteous is not a DPS class. And Righteous DC is absolutely competitive with TR. By contrast, TR is a DPS class. Comparing those three is not reasonable and you know it.
The best solution is to completely separate the PVP and PVE games.
So what is the GF? Tanking in a PVE game that doesn't require tanks? What is the DC? Healing in a PVE game that doesn't require healing? The TR would still be in a much better spot than those classes with the state of PVE is today. Sure righteous DCs are competitive, but that doesn't change the fact about the other specs and classes.
YOU are the one demanding nerfs of others so that your place of privilege in PVP can remain. That is not Cryptic's fault. It is yours. PVE farming and RP have nothing to do with it.
Well you specifically stated a 10k TR. Once the TR gets enough gear and artifacts to be a 15-17k GS TR, he will have no problem fitting in Tiamat. Even with nerfed DPS, he will still do fine and much better than half of the other classes.
How does that poor 10k GS TR get to 15-17k though? I don't know anymore. I can't recommend him to go farm tier 2 dungeons then upgrade to farming Castle Never because that doesn't work anymore.
PVE is the main focus of this game, and constitutes at least 90% of the players.
PVP is a tacked-on sideshow designed only to extract money from ultra-competitive players.
Class balance should occur in a manner that (a) is consistent with the spirit of D&D, and (b) makes every class desirable and worthwhile to play in PVE.
Classes should NEVER EVER be nerfed in PVE based solely on the demands of PVP players. Ever.
PvE TRs won't be affected by the changes. Do you realize how much damage you can do with SoD and a properly built PvE TR? One of my friends recently did 57 million damage in 1 Tiamat run (we run ACT). A conservatively low average of his damage is around 30 million each run. The average person does 2-10 million. Granted, he was benefiting from a LOT of debuffs/buffs, but he had the highest DPS in all the runs we did.
PvE TRs won't be affected by the changes. Do you realize how much damage you can do with SoD and a properly built PvE TR? One of my friends recently did 57 million damage in 1 Tiamat run (we run ACT). A conservatively low average of his damage is around 30 million each run. The average person does 2-10 million. Granted, he was benefiting from a LOT of debuffs/buffs, but he had the highest DPS in all the runs we did.
That won't change next week.
No, they won't. I realize that. But all of the PVPers who are objecting to the change are suggesting to nerf TR DPS instead as a "compromise". That WOULD harm PVE TRs. But they don't care.
No, they won't. I realize that. But all of the PVPers who are objecting to the change are suggesting to nerf TR DPS instead as a "compromise". That WOULD harm PVE TRs. But they don't care.
I know and understand it would negatively affect PVE TRs. I'm saying the negative effect is very minimal based on the state of PVE (which I've already regurgitated several times the specifics) today while the positive effect on PVP would change from the whole game being dependent on TRs to more balance.
If it would kill PVE TRs or make them lose out on tiamat spots, I would not be suggesting this change.
No, they won't. I realize that. But all of the PVPers who are objecting to the change are suggesting to nerf TR DPS instead as a "compromise". That WOULD harm PVE TRs. But they don't care.
I get your concern; PvPers tend to not care how PvP balancing will affect PvE and vice versa. But in this case, they're referring to reducing DPS of dailies like SE and bloodbath; when 50%ish of PvE TR damage comes from beasting your SoD procc, you'll still be fine! Hopefully no future changes will kill PvE TR, though.
And I don't even play a TR. I tried it, didn't care for it, deleted it and went with my CW instead.
I am just very receptive to the pleas of PVE TRs all these many months that they were on the low end of the totem pole and now that they are finally having a place in PVE, some idiots want to push them back down the totem pole again.
I also remember what it was like to not yet have endgame gear and to not fully know how to play one's character yet, and to struggle with content that everyone else was saying was "easy". Making it deliberately harder for these people to make progress just doesn't seem right. No one on the forums is going to stick up for the 10k TRs out there, so someone has to.
Making it deliberately harder for these people to make progress just doesn't seem right. No one on the forums is going to stick up for the 10k TRs out there, so someone has to.
This part I agree with. However, why do you focus on this TR DPS proposed nerf? If you truly are concerned with this, why not look at the bigger issue affecting all classes?
Back then, a player could farm PVE honestly and garner several million AD within a month. Refinement prices where reasonably priced. Players were able to gear up and go up to the 16k-18k GS ranged with ease if they committed. Players were able to become BIS while being completely F2P.
Now, PVE farming isn't worthwhile. Refinement prices are already skyhigh and you know its gonna skyrocket as supply is dwindling. It is harder and harder for new players to keep up.
Like velynna said, TRs are fine and will be fine even with the proposed nerf. The big problem is, how do you get that 10k GS TR into a 16k GS TR and be fit and viable for ANY PVE encounters (nerfed or not nerfed).
complain all you want devs win they get rich lol! I will get my popcorn and rootbeer watch you people hate and destroy each other sorry I dont support crab mentality. :cool: instead of asking for better QoL for each class you ask for nonsense thing go fight among yourselves because that is what toddlers do.
complain all you want devs win they get rich lol! I will get my popcorn and rootbeer watch you people hate and destroy each other sorry I dont support crab mentality. :cool: instead of asking for better QoL for each class you ask for nonsense thing go fight among yourselves because that is what toddlers do.
You've been hanging out with the wrong toddlers. Most I know just make cute noises and stare wondrously at bubble wrap.
You've been hanging out with the wrong toddlers. Most I know just make cute noises and stare wondrously at bubble wrap.
they are for my entertainment
heres the real life scenario
CW: I hate TR! they kill me 100% of the time, I cant use my OP round the clock CC encounters and bury them with my OP Ice Knife! You devs should do something about this! I've spent my 2 month salary on my CW! I should be able to retaliate using my non-stop OP cc!
HR: I hate TR! the moment I spam my 6 encounter and finish them with my OP Fox encounter they will just tumble away! Im so frustrated! arrrgghhhh!!!! devs I've spent my whole year savings for this character do something so I can use my 25% AP consumption green arrow and dominate pvp!
DC and the rest of the class: I hate TR! I should be the one dominating in pvp because I can heal tons of HP, stun, debuff, I have insane dps and tanky! devs do something about this!
TR: what do you want me to do? you made us useless outside stealth other class will just 1-2 hit us we cant pump points to CON like other class because if we do we will deal low damage, we have high cdr and worse of all most a lot of our tools (At-will, Encounter and feats) are stealth base/dependent (some of TR feats are useless outside stealth. SO WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO? WHAT WHAT WHAT? YOU WANT TO MONOPOLIZE AND DOMINATE EVERYTHING?
THOU SHALL NOT SPEAK OF BALANCE IF YOU ARE HYPOCRITES:o
previous mod you throw 1 encounter to lock us and drop Ice Knife and poof TR to pieces now tables have been turned how does it feel to be standing on our pitiful state? Your still lucky because you are able to stand for 10 seconds not like the previous mod TR are just 3 seconds away from death
And that justifies TR now beating any class other than other TRs in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 without putting any effort? You're pathetic.
What parties? You mean the random tiamat zergfests? You have to be kidding me.
How about the parties going to T1/T2 dungeons with 10k TRs still gearing up?
But that's right, you don't give a **** about anyone except BIS PVP guild players
You people make me sick, thinking that the only thing that matters is this hastily tacked-on P2W freakshow known as PVP
You people who like PVP so much, can't you find a game that actually caters to PVP, instead of this one, in which PVP was this last-minute addition hastily added right before the end of open beta, that has only two maps and one mode for over 1.5 years?
The only point of PVP in this game is to take your money. That's it.
The devs don't care about balanced classes when it comes to PVP. In fact I'm convinced they create deliberately unbalanced classes so that you all will roll the next flavor-of-the-month class and pay big bucks to gear it up.
Cryptic is using you all. You aren't "valued customers". You are marks. Nothing more and nothing less.
Would agree if TRs did not have those countless dodges now though. At the moment I just feel godlike playing my rogue in pvp and somewhat ashamed and sad. And anxious too because it's exactly the same situation we had before that huge nerf-hammer bash back in the past.
Oh and I haven't even tried that permadaze thing yet.
Everyone already discussed this. Nobody agreed with you in PMvsPm.
1) You seem to only want the TR to be able to 1vX
Lol that's actually true and funny because I've just seen Sicarius soloing 3 somewhate geared pugs at 2nd node in domination. Spamming 2 bloodbaths within like 10 seconds.
My honest opinion: The stealth mechanic is so utterly effective that it is the downfall of TRs in other aspects of the class. As some have mentioned, this is not a fps-ego-shooter. The ping of many players is 150-300. This makes it extremely difficult to play against a perma stealthed TR, a "catch me if u can"-fight that depends on reflexes and movement prediction/anticipation. In fact, stealth as a defensive mechanic is so effective that a TR can be a valueable member without using anything except stealth. To backcap and block a node, and playing more defensive when more enemies engage.
This is exceptional shown by the OP and his k/d in premades, against players like Alt on his CW for example. Sic was bleeding alot of points against him but still managed to block a decent amount of points on enemy home without dying. It shows that stealth itself is a winning method in domination matches.
To be clear: I like the stealth mechanic. I had never anything against it. It was sometimes annoying when I chased players like Dinter or Morrosix for nearly an hour in mod3, unable to kill them effeciently, as they couldnt kill me either. But it was ok.
The main issue is: Stealth mechanic has such an inherent strategic power, that anything additional the TR might possess makes him overpowered then. Thats it what we see now. Give a class with perma stealth ability the burst/dps of a cw/hr/gwf and you create a monster.
You TRs, Sic, Crollax, Dinter, Nocturnal and all the other talented rogues out there KNOW hiw powerful stealth is. As I do because I played a TR for months in pvp, too. Its a fun mechanic, it gives u so much potential in domination regarding movement, rotating, node blocking.
Players like keltz0r or flyyyyyyy had realized that, starting to play pvp half naked and still owning or at least: blocking enemy home.
Truth be told: stealth is the strongest TAB ability because it is completly gear indipendend. It might be enhanced by gear but stealth itself is with 8kgs as effecitve as with 20k gs. Unstoppable of gwf? Not so much. Fourth enc slot of cws? Enc dm is tied to ur stats. GFs mark? % dmg boost, also tied to ur dmg potential. And so on…
This is not a request to nerf stealth. It is the simple statement, that TRs can have EITHER perma stealth but zero dmg OR almost no stealth but great dmg. Because stealth itself is so powerful.
And you TRs know that. Thats why TRs were even put into premades pre mod5, although their dmg got so heavy nerfed.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited December 2014
After review, we're going to leave this closed. Please direct feedback to one of the existing threads:
Comments
Like you said, there were lots of variables in leading to an instance succeeding or failing. Perhaps one other thing you didn't mention was efficiently keeping the clerics safe. Trapping the mobs and using smokebomb could've saved those 5 seconds. Who knows what lead to those 5 seconds.
Right now with the current PVE state (Tiamat and Well of Dragons), I do not see a big reason for outcry if the TR's dps is nerfed (particularly BloodBath and Shocking Execution). TRs are still better off than DCs or GFs or GWFs. It balances PVP by A LOT without affecting PVE too much. It is a balancing act yes. A more clean method would be to separate PVP skills from PVE skills but with this team, that isn't possible sadly.
Well of course you don't because all you care about is PVP and you don't give a **** about PVE.
You're basically saying "screw you" to 90% of the players. Which, to be honest, I wouldn't expect anything more from a PVP bootlicker such as yourself.
Please explain to the 10k TRs still gearing up that they have to struggle more in acquiring their gear because of of 20k PVP premades.
Look at Tiamat. It is a zergfest. One person's DPS has not carried such little weight as it did today in this game than ever before. Well of dragons doesn't even need your DPS since you ride around on your mount across the map. Also, you realize that DCs and GFs and GWFs are in a worse situation right? What does that say about them then? If they are able to survive, then nerfing PVP TRs with little side-effects to PVE TRs would be the next best possible solution (best solution is to separate PVP and PVE skills).
Please avoid the name-calling. And no, as per my paragraph above, with the state of PVE, PVP and loot progression, this is the best compromise in my opinion.
I will say sorry for Cryptic systematically making PVE farming worthless so it is almost impossible to earn millions and millions of diamonds farming CN anymore. (unlike when completely f2P players where able to garner 10mil AD with no credit card required)
Also, sorry for Cryptic making refinement stones BOA so that the prices will quadruple in the coming weeks.
A stack of black opals right now is hovering near the 3mil mark. Double refinement won't even come out in 2 weeks. It used to be 500k.
GF is not a DPS class. DC other than Righteous is not a DPS class. And Righteous DC is absolutely competitive with TR. By contrast, TR is a DPS class. Comparing those three is not reasonable and you know it.
And about the only thing I can agree with you on is that GWF needs some help. But the solution isn't to nerf TR downwards.
The best solution is to completely separate the PVP and PVE games.
If the boot fits...
Well of course YOU find it the "best compromise" because you don't have to suffer any of the downsides of this compromise. YOU don't play a 10k PVE TR, do you? How noble of you to offer a "compromise" that has zero downsides to you.
YOU are the one demanding nerfs of others so that your place of privilege in PVP can remain. That is not Cryptic's fault. It is yours. PVE farming and RP have nothing to do with it.
So what is the GF? Tanking in a PVE game that doesn't require tanks? What is the DC? Healing in a PVE game that doesn't require healing? The TR would still be in a much better spot than those classes with the state of PVE is today. Sure righteous DCs are competitive, but that doesn't change the fact about the other specs and classes.
I'm sure you know that name-calling it is against forum TOS.
Well you specifically stated a 10k TR. Once the TR gets enough gear and artifacts to be a 15-17k GS TR, he will have no problem fitting in Tiamat. Even with nerfed DPS, he will still do fine and much better than half of the other classes.
How does that poor 10k GS TR get to 15-17k though? I don't know anymore. I can't recommend him to go farm tier 2 dungeons then upgrade to farming Castle Never because that doesn't work anymore.
PVE is the main focus of this game, and constitutes at least 90% of the players.
PVP is a tacked-on sideshow designed only to extract money from ultra-competitive players.
Class balance should occur in a manner that (a) is consistent with the spirit of D&D, and (b) makes every class desirable and worthwhile to play in PVE.
Classes should NEVER EVER be nerfed in PVE based solely on the demands of PVP players. Ever.
PvE TRs won't be affected by the changes. Do you realize how much damage you can do with SoD and a properly built PvE TR? One of my friends recently did 57 million damage in 1 Tiamat run (we run ACT). A conservatively low average of his damage is around 30 million each run. The average person does 2-10 million. Granted, he was benefiting from a LOT of debuffs/buffs, but he had the highest DPS in all the runs we did.
That won't change next week.
No, they won't. I realize that. But all of the PVPers who are objecting to the change are suggesting to nerf TR DPS instead as a "compromise". That WOULD harm PVE TRs. But they don't care.
I know and understand it would negatively affect PVE TRs. I'm saying the negative effect is very minimal based on the state of PVE (which I've already regurgitated several times the specifics) today while the positive effect on PVP would change from the whole game being dependent on TRs to more balance.
If it would kill PVE TRs or make them lose out on tiamat spots, I would not be suggesting this change.
You do realize not every party is composed of 20k players, right?
20k groups don't need tanks or heals. 10k groups certainly might.
Why can you not even see that there are players out there who aren't all maxed out?
I get your concern; PvPers tend to not care how PvP balancing will affect PvE and vice versa. But in this case, they're referring to reducing DPS of dailies like SE and bloodbath; when 50%ish of PvE TR damage comes from beasting your SoD procc, you'll still be fine! Hopefully no future changes will kill PvE TR, though.
I am just very receptive to the pleas of PVE TRs all these many months that they were on the low end of the totem pole and now that they are finally having a place in PVE, some idiots want to push them back down the totem pole again.
I also remember what it was like to not yet have endgame gear and to not fully know how to play one's character yet, and to struggle with content that everyone else was saying was "easy". Making it deliberately harder for these people to make progress just doesn't seem right. No one on the forums is going to stick up for the 10k TRs out there, so someone has to.
This part I agree with. However, why do you focus on this TR DPS proposed nerf? If you truly are concerned with this, why not look at the bigger issue affecting all classes?
Back then, a player could farm PVE honestly and garner several million AD within a month. Refinement prices where reasonably priced. Players were able to gear up and go up to the 16k-18k GS ranged with ease if they committed. Players were able to become BIS while being completely F2P.
Now, PVE farming isn't worthwhile. Refinement prices are already skyhigh and you know its gonna skyrocket as supply is dwindling. It is harder and harder for new players to keep up.
Like velynna said, TRs are fine and will be fine even with the proposed nerf. The big problem is, how do you get that 10k GS TR into a 16k GS TR and be fit and viable for ANY PVE encounters (nerfed or not nerfed).
You've been hanging out with the wrong toddlers. Most I know just make cute noises and stare wondrously at bubble wrap.
they are for my entertainment
heres the real life scenario
CW: I hate TR! they kill me 100% of the time, I cant use my OP round the clock CC encounters and bury them with my OP Ice Knife! You devs should do something about this! I've spent my 2 month salary on my CW! I should be able to retaliate using my non-stop OP cc!
HR: I hate TR! the moment I spam my 6 encounter and finish them with my OP Fox encounter they will just tumble away! Im so frustrated! arrrgghhhh!!!! devs I've spent my whole year savings for this character do something so I can use my 25% AP consumption green arrow and dominate pvp!
DC and the rest of the class: I hate TR! I should be the one dominating in pvp because I can heal tons of HP, stun, debuff, I have insane dps and tanky! devs do something about this!
TR: what do you want me to do? you made us useless outside stealth other class will just 1-2 hit us we cant pump points to CON like other class because if we do we will deal low damage, we have high cdr and worse of all most a lot of our tools (At-will, Encounter and feats) are stealth base/dependent (some of TR feats are useless outside stealth. SO WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO? WHAT WHAT WHAT? YOU WANT TO MONOPOLIZE AND DOMINATE EVERYTHING?
THOU SHALL NOT SPEAK OF BALANCE IF YOU ARE HYPOCRITES:o
What parties? You mean the random tiamat zergfests? You have to be kidding me.
And that justifies TR now beating any class other than other TRs in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 without putting any effort? You're pathetic.
How about the parties going to T1/T2 dungeons with 10k TRs still gearing up?
But that's right, you don't give a **** about anyone except BIS PVP guild players
You people make me sick, thinking that the only thing that matters is this hastily tacked-on P2W freakshow known as PVP
You people who like PVP so much, can't you find a game that actually caters to PVP, instead of this one, in which PVP was this last-minute addition hastily added right before the end of open beta, that has only two maps and one mode for over 1.5 years?
The only point of PVP in this game is to take your money. That's it.
The devs don't care about balanced classes when it comes to PVP. In fact I'm convinced they create deliberately unbalanced classes so that you all will roll the next flavor-of-the-month class and pay big bucks to gear it up.
Cryptic is using you all. You aren't "valued customers". You are marks. Nothing more and nothing less.
you are a mark.
Seems to me that the game is heading into this direction. Every aspect of the game.
Would agree if TRs did not have those countless dodges now though. At the moment I just feel godlike playing my rogue in pvp and somewhat ashamed and sad. And anxious too because it's exactly the same situation we had before that huge nerf-hammer bash back in the past.
Oh and I haven't even tried that permadaze thing yet.
Lol that's actually true and funny because I've just seen Sicarius soloing 3 somewhate geared pugs at 2nd node in domination. Spamming 2 bloodbaths within like 10 seconds.
WTB Class Reroll please
Unlike the PVPers, I have paid exactly 0 for my RP.
Do I have 7xLegendaries? No.
Do I *need* 7xLegendaries? No.
If I were to play "elite PVP", would I *need* 7xLegendaries? Yes.
Would I then have to PAY MONEY for my RP? Yes.
You see how this works?
The stealth mechanic is so utterly effective that it is the downfall of TRs in other aspects of the class. As some have mentioned, this is not a fps-ego-shooter. The ping of many players is 150-300. This makes it extremely difficult to play against a perma stealthed TR, a "catch me if u can"-fight that depends on reflexes and movement prediction/anticipation. In fact, stealth as a defensive mechanic is so effective that a TR can be a valueable member without using anything except stealth. To backcap and block a node, and playing more defensive when more enemies engage.
This is exceptional shown by the OP and his k/d in premades, against players like Alt on his CW for example. Sic was bleeding alot of points against him but still managed to block a decent amount of points on enemy home without dying. It shows that stealth itself is a winning method in domination matches.
To be clear: I like the stealth mechanic. I had never anything against it. It was sometimes annoying when I chased players like Dinter or Morrosix for nearly an hour in mod3, unable to kill them effeciently, as they couldnt kill me either. But it was ok.
The main issue is: Stealth mechanic has such an inherent strategic power, that anything additional the TR might possess makes him overpowered then. Thats it what we see now. Give a class with perma stealth ability the burst/dps of a cw/hr/gwf and you create a monster.
You TRs, Sic, Crollax, Dinter, Nocturnal and all the other talented rogues out there KNOW hiw powerful stealth is. As I do because I played a TR for months in pvp, too. Its a fun mechanic, it gives u so much potential in domination regarding movement, rotating, node blocking.
Players like keltz0r or flyyyyyyy had realized that, starting to play pvp half naked and still owning or at least: blocking enemy home.
Truth be told: stealth is the strongest TAB ability because it is completly gear indipendend. It might be enhanced by gear but stealth itself is with 8kgs as effecitve as with 20k gs. Unstoppable of gwf? Not so much. Fourth enc slot of cws? Enc dm is tied to ur stats. GFs mark? % dmg boost, also tied to ur dmg potential. And so on…
This is not a request to nerf stealth. It is the simple statement, that TRs can have EITHER perma stealth but zero dmg OR almost no stealth but great dmg. Because stealth itself is so powerful.
And you TRs know that. Thats why TRs were even put into premades pre mod5, although their dmg got so heavy nerfed.
Preview Forums:
[h=3]Poll: Stealth Change vs Damage Reduction[/h]
Thieves' Den Forum:
[h=3]Sticky: [Community Feedback] Trickster Rogue Stealth Changes on the Horizon[/h]
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PWE Community Moderator
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