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Tiamat Encounter - Community Feedback Thread

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  • moljinirmoljinir Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Its a good fight, just needs some tweaking.

    1. Groups - this one has been beaten to death.
    2. Invisible red areas near clerics will sometimes one-shot people that never saw it coming.
    3. Instance Chat - again beating a dead horse.
    4. GS minimum - doesnt need to be over 14k.
    5. Lag - its there sometimes, comes and goes between phases.
    6. If one head is killed during earlier phases it sometimes breaks the encounter so that even if you kill all heads in last phase, you still fail.
    7. Reclamation needs to be adjusted. Right at launch it got to Max level, everyone was spending all the coins/coffers they collected over the past several weeks. Now it rarely even gets to level 2. Either lower the requirements or increase drop rate.
  • gigthulhugigthulhu Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Here's something that happened on a recent Tiamat run. White was doing well, followed by Black (my group) while the middle heads were taking some damage. Not great but Tiamat's health was lowering. On our second Cleric Defense phase, both the side Clerics were done, but Linu in the middle was barely up. I went to help along with my group and we got Linu up. Okay, now it's the 3rd Cleric Defense phase, and by the time the side Clerics were done, Linu was a whopping 0% done. I went to fight and got killed. I noticed a lot of peeps on the campfire. I thought, "hey, did y'all get killed by the blue nuke?" Anyway, I went to help with Linu again, got killed, then took another look at the campfire. Took this screenshot and went to fight again. We got Linu done, but had less than 2 minutes for the head phase.

    I've censored out their names and guilds, but where applicable, you can see their titles. Paingivers, Ruiners, Caturday Survivors... Over 10 players giving up with plenty of time to go. And you'll see my group's only got 4 peeps. It's not a matter of GS. Or not enough DPS. Or them not knowing what to do, because they started off doing things right.

    The problem was human nature. And alas, the system did not account for that. Personally, I was a fool to waste my injury kits on this. But I'm dumb like that. I don't like ta give up.

    Edit: Err, my pic's not showing up... and my img host is apparently down. Suffice it to say, it's a screenshot of a LOT of people just standing around the campfire with sufficient time to go. I mean, not a LOT of time, but if they didn't abandon the fight, there'd be enough time for 2 more Head Phases.
  • chrcorechrcore Member Posts: 329 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    Sorry, but they do need to increase the GS for this. The problem is you can tell in the first round if it's going to happen or not. If you can't get at least 2 heads down to 20% or if a truly well balanced instance 50% on each head, it's just not going to happen.

    What I noticed is if you don't have properly geared folks (HV, HP, PT, GP) there just won't be enough dps on the dragons. I can solo a head down to 50% in a round, it's not too much to ask for folks in a team of 5 to be able to do the same. It's just not fun getting stuck in an instance where folks are tickling the heads.
  • zaikoshenzaikoshen Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Hints For developement of Neverwinter.

    I have the preoccupation to do this long post because I am one of the lovers of the background and gameplay of Neverwinter.
    Because of that I have separated some topics and hints to discuss some points to improve the game, of course I wait get the attention of the devs.
    Lets continue this discussion of some topics bellow and MY OPINION about the solution of the problem.

    We don’t have a real necessity to have a guild on game

    Guilds on this game is only a perfumery to have because we don’t have events like Castle Siege or War between Guilds (taking care to don’t do merchandising hehe) and now the devs made on this Tiamat epic heroic encounter, yes a heroic encounter.

    To change that in a Raid they need work on a sophisticated queue system(or not) like a link between partys to turn possible guilds do this “Raid” together, and not trying to go to the same instance or other improved ways (like change instance on last minute). This is a fault of the game support for do not open possibilities to join with your guild or other friends.

    A Bad bad bad baaaaaaaaaad queue system

    On both sides of the game, PVE and PVP, with this new module they show a great fail mentioned on first topic.
    On PVP they don’t have a support to organize premades and don’t separate premade queues of random queues or organize the infamous duel system.

    My Suggestion here is a separated queue for premades (minimum of 4 players for party) and a pug queue (maximum of 3 players) with a balanced gear system using with parameter the Gear Score.
    “GS isn’t a parameter to see the real hability of players”
    Yes he is, it’s the final result of all your gear points (sets, rings, artifacts and other stuffs) and is a point of view for separate members of guilds like CS, Absolute, Phalanx, etc, with high GS of players with low GS.

    Is one of the easiest game to play

    The Neverwinter End-game player don’t need much to become a “end-game”
    If you have good companions and rank 7 enchants with tier 2 sets and you have a good build you can solo every dungeon and boss on this game (including Dracolich on Castle Never)

    My Suggestion for this part is:
    - Investments on craft system and reduce the buffs on new gear, just one alternative stats or buffs/debuffs on 4/4 bonus sets.
    - A Hard end-game content it’s the way to get the attention of many players and do this players stay on game, taking his attention with difficult create new objectives but with more difficult.
    - Buff the mobs or new and more stronger mobs on game, same to bosses
    - A lot of new content (like at least 3 New Raids or 4~5 new dungeons to play)
    - Class balance changes and synergy of classes, traps need do hit kills to put a spot to TRs on dungeons
    - Do dungeons not only for dps but for tatics like the new heroic encounter in well of dragons ( I forget the name)
    - Work on different effects of skills between PVE and PVP (this help a lot on class balance)
    - Work on dual setup for PVE and PVP in a single change button (its so boring change enchants for PVE and PVP sets and build all the time)
    - Again a hard game content with a hard difficult and objectives during the events to concluding, this get the player on game for a long time and with a background like that(Dungeons and Dragons) its possible do a game for more of 10 years.

    This is some few and principals topics considered really important for me to improve the game quality in PVE.

    General In-Game problems

    The FPS on Tiamat and server capacity is the principal problems of Module 5
    of course we recognize the improved since of beta to M5 on server capacity but I think they need to change the graphics, maybe cartoonish a little the graphics help the system
    Games like Elder Scrolls Online do it and have improved the system work and reduced lag close to 0, the problems for some players its only the route of connection and external problems who don’t involve the game.
    Things we can’t forget in game
    Next year Neverwinter come to Xbox One and probably we use the same server than Xbox players so…. What you guys did about that? .-.

    Finally… PVP.

    Castle Siege, New domination maps, deathmatches, duel, class balance…. God, this is more hard than everyone imagine but I think the devs need to focus this points to turn neverwinter more playable, fun and attractive game for everyone.
    This is a general vision about the important things, ofc we have the less ones and equal important like the others but I think this is the start to change the game.

    Sorry for the wrong words combinations, I dont have a good english but this is my best trying help the game community. ^_^
    vP2Jm4O.png

    <Absolute>
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    You're going to give up after only 5 attempts?

    It's supposed to be hard.

    If everybody was finishing it on the first attempt, people would complain it's too easy.

    Now people struggle with it because it's challenging, and people complain.
  • djoffer1djoffer1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    You're going to give up after only 5 attempts?

    It's supposed to be hard.

    If everybody was finishing it on the first attempt, people would complain it's too easy.

    Now people struggle with it because it's challenging, and people complain.

    As i said dont mind failing because of my own(or my Groups) failure, but failing because 20 other people cant grasp the basis concept of what you are souppose to do, isnt my cup of tea... Besides nothing in there i want, except the favors for my off hand, and well cant grind them doing content that is actually fun.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Tiamat battle only needs to have duration increased by 5 minutes. Almost all well organized teams I've had missed from 20 seconds to ~2 minutes to succeed the battle.

    Also, Hoard reclamation should be toned down by at least 5 times. The highest I saw in ~ 3 days was 19%. But most often was 7%-9%.
  • mrvincent1959mrvincent1959 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    1. Fix bugs - Chat problems, technical glithces, instance transfers and other sundry things
    2. Lower Tiamat Hoard Reclamation requirements
    3. Dont do anything else please

    This should be a PUG only event as it is. Lowering Tiamat Reclamation requirements will help the lower GS players when inside.
    twitch.tv/kaligold
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    You're going to give up after only 5 attempts?

    It's supposed to be hard.

    If everybody was finishing it on the first attempt, people would complain it's too easy.

    Now people struggle with it because it's challenging, and people complain.

    If you could join with people you choose and reliably get an instance that's functional it wouldn't be challenging at all. The only challenge right now is latency, bugs and the no gears and the directionless pubs not pulling their weight.
  • seniorhobsseniorhobs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    This battle is the first time in-game where I really desired the ability to switch between encounter sets (AE set for protection phase - single target set for head phase). Trying to time it and not lose too much time opening up char sheet and changing was just down right annoying. Does not seem like a game changing or unreasonable request to add the ability to single key swap between encounter sets....
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • chrcorechrcore Member Posts: 329 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    You're going to give up after only 5 attempts?

    It's supposed to be hard.

    If everybody was finishing it on the first attempt, people would complain it's too easy.

    Now people struggle with it because it's challenging, and people complain.

    It's not hard at all. But, it's not going to get done with folks that can't dps. I've completed it over 20 times as long as I can get in with 5 of my guildmates. Every time we have to take out 3-4 of the heads as no one else has any dps....

    It's frustrating when you get thrown in with folks running split sets that can't do any dps on the heads. There is only so much lack of dps you can carry..... and it's not fun.

    Now if I could get triple the reward for carrying the instance I wouldn't feel as frustrated, as my awards would make at least make up for the instances where it's impossible to carry them all.
  • str8slayerstr8slayer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 715 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    After like 20 wins I've gotten nothing for at least half of them, this is getting ridiculous and this needs to be fixed.....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kuzuryoukuzuryou Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Fantastic bug she has, we killed her 3 seconds before phase change and the game didn't count the kill and proceeded to next phase , we kill her again at the next phase and the game rewards us as if we had failed to kill her.Simply awesome...............
  • frishterfrishter Member Posts: 3,522 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I feel like the raid is pretty much at the difficulty it should be minus a minimum gs increase and some other issues being fixed.

    I would however like to see some other stuff added to the linu's store. The store is a great addition, however there isn't much you can do when you have everything so if you added stuff like rp and coal wards (which you probably wouldn't do I guess) or companion tokens. Then we can keep doing it for pretty much as long as we wanted with a continued rate of progression even when we have everything we want.
  • mrvincent1959mrvincent1959 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I tried several times today and half the times the event bugged out. Red dragon not showing or White dragon not showing. Yes, I also agree with an earlier post in that you will get "invisibly" killed while standing next to Clerics with no forewarning.

    I wont be running this event anymore for a while. I will just grind the zone for my Favors for now.
    twitch.tv/kaligold
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    You're going to give up after only 5 attempts?

    It's supposed to be hard.

    If everybody was finishing it on the first attempt, people would complain it's too easy.

    Now people struggle with it because it's challenging, and people complain.

    I don't think this Tiamat raid is hard at all nor is it challenging.

    Once we are able to queue with our own group like every other raid in every other MMO, this will be easy. Until then, I don't consider pugs not listening to be the right kind of challenge in any video game.
  • ogariousogarious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I don't think this Tiamat raid is hard at all nor is it challenging.

    Once we are able to queue with our own group like every other raid in every other MMO, this will be easy. Until then, I don't consider pugs not listening to be the right kind of challenge in any video game.

    It's not the difficulty that most of us have issue with. It's the bugs in the raid (and I use that term loosely) that is causing all the anger.

    See my above post.
  • scoutmasterjscoutmasterj Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I've finally gotten into some good groups and we've managed to beat Tiamat. First off, my biggest problem is lag, serious lag. There were times when the game stopped for like 15 seconds.

    2nd, put a favor in the chest. If i'm going to use a legendary key, there should be a favor in there.
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I gotta agree, it costs about 30k for the dragon key, and the rewards inside often doesn't even worth 30k!

    About 50% of the time I left the chest unopened just because I could get the things inside at a lower cost straight from AH! (I have beaten Tiamat about 15~20 times, and things inside the chest are usually a Dragon's Potion/Scroll/Coin Pouch plus a random T2 epic or artifact equipment) quite often they are 'Titan's Glove', 'Sword Knot of Avatar', "Vagiliant gears (can't remember how to spell that word...) and most of those are like 10~15k each on AH now... depriciating each day...

    So really, I sometimes get better loots from the event reward such as Dragon Egg, 20 Slot Bags and they are free! The chest... is just... UNImpressive.... :(



    I've finally gotten into some good groups and we've managed to beat Tiamat. First off, my biggest problem is lag, serious lag. There were times when the game stopped for like 15 seconds.

    2nd, put a favor in the chest. If i'm going to use a legendary key, there should be a favor in there.
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Half of the times I completed Tiamat, I did get no favor. Good job.

    Challange wise, in one run we had a 19k+GS team with debuff DC, buff GF, SW and two CWs. We began with black, down to 25% in the first phase. Green had 95%, we changed to green in the second phase and got him to ca. 10%. before we switched to red. In the third phase we killed black and helped kill green and red. We finished the dragon with 5+ minutes left. If you could do this full premade, you could most likely farm it with 15 ppl and 10 afk toons for the loot. The challange are lags, invisible onehits by lightning and PuGs.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I have a question for the devs. I've run this enough times now that this is really beginning to bother me, and I'd appreciate an answer.

    What is the deal with the Legion Devils and your defense? Are they completely ignoring it?

    No, really. I'd like an answer. When I've got >5k defense and I'm losing 40% of my HP (which is up to 36k now!) with a single swing of one of those blasted infernal swords, something is seriously wrong. Either my defense is a big fat goose-egg to them or there's a bug somewhere (or both).

    I'm running T2/T2.5 gear and I have a full set of Purified BI gear in the bank, but before I invest any effort into Draconic Templar I have to ask: is there any point in getting this shiny, new gear if the effective defense is always going to be zero against them? What is the point?
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  • tickdofftickdoff Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    hustin1 wrote: »
    I have a question for the devs. I've run this enough times now that this is really beginning to bother me, and I'd appreciate an answer.

    What is the deal with the Legion Devils and your defense? Are they completely ignoring it?

    No, really. I'd like an answer. When I've got >5k defense and I'm losing 40% of my HP (which is up to 36k now!) with a single swing of one of those blasted infernal swords, something is seriously wrong. Either my defense is a big fat goose-egg to them or there's a bug somewhere (or both).

    I'm running T2/T2.5 gear and I have a full set of Purified BI gear in the bank, but before I invest any effort into Draconic Templar I have to ask: is there any point in getting this shiny, new gear if the effective defense is always going to be zero against them? What is the point?

    The black dragon breath is a MASSIVE defense de-buff, and all it takes to get that debuff is walking in the acid pool left behind from the breath weapon, which is easy to do accidentally in the chaos of that fight. If you are getting hit with that then it is easy for you to get defeated quickly by mobs that might not otherwise be a problem. I have also noticed that the Blue Dragon breath does not often put a red circle on the ground before it fires off, which can cause several player deaths. if you are being hit by the lightning breath while fighting a Devil it may not be the Devil which is killing you.
  • odd111outodd111out Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Overall, it's been frustrating because I was expecting release content that was fun like Malabog's Castle and Valindra's Tower, where it felt like a group of people working together against Evil Doers. But poor design, lag, and a deteriorating player community have contributed to it being an overall disappointment.

    I will point out that a lot of what had people screaming on Friday and Saturday has declined greatly-people not working together, not getting gems, etc. Even the non-English crowd has mostly caught on, likely due to the posting of several videos on YouTube and the like. Also I know of several non-English sites for this game have also posted written guides.

    So...

    1. Fix the Lag. For those who have gotten the weird super Dragon Head Lag, I've had to either suicide or unslot the gem (for a second). I've always noticed that the Lag at the heads starts during a roar section, but I don't know if that really has anything to do with it.

    2. Redesign the starting area. Get rid of the central campfire and have it spawn only when the event starts. Its harder to organize, or encourage people to organize, into colored groups when they are instinctively motivated to stand by it. Also people at each area need to be able to clearly see each other and the other groups, so that two groups don't get accidentally made and so that some trading is possible-clerics etc.

    3. Party Leaders should gain a colored flame above their heads. The person who wants to be leader for that color can go gain it as a "flag" by being the first one to touch the colored flame in the start area. That way it will be quicker and easier (and clearer for non-English speakers) which groups have been made and who to get an invite from. The flame does not need to be permanent, and could expire when the event starts.

    4. Set a GS requirement to 14k for Tiamat. I can see the argument that from a business side of things you don't want people drawn to try the game by Tiamat adverts and then told they can't run the content until the do previous releases (although they can pay). But a 14k GS is a reasonable expectation and it's not hard to achieve. People need to spend some time running 5 party content before doing 25 party content.

    ** There really should have been a Major 5 Party Dungeon in this expansion, as well as Tiamat. One that was open to people less than 14k GS, that they could see as a stepping stone to Tiamat. **

    5. Add a NPC or two in front of the Temple, Spies or whatever, who can give the player a brief description of the fight and their role. Also, a merchant so people can do bag inventory in that five minute gap between the Heralds and Tiamat without running back to camp.

    I've also been experiencing wonky damage from Legion Devils, when I'm clean of debuffs, as if they were ignoring my DR. I've not had any trouble with the Eyrines one-shotting me. Or if there is some invisible debuff that can't be Cleansed?

    On a final note, I would point out that you have walled off most of the Religion Kits in last Thursday's patch when you put clear walls around the altars at the Herald spawn locations. I have submitted bug reports.

    I'm not against 5-parties being able to Q for the event, but I am against the effects of instance switching. Several times what are obviously premade late joiners have left an instance short, so there are only 20 people. Twice when it happened today it was an almost certain win until the instance got left hanging with out a team for that color. Let there be premade 5-parties but that's it. No instance switching, no going out the door and re-entering. Leaving should give you a penalty similar to PvP-quitting. And perhaps a severe inactivity penalty that logs you out to take care of people sitting at the campfire for the whole thing.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    Once they fix the queue system and let people form their parties up, the raid will be a much smoother experience. I don't think Cryptic made the actual difficulty hard at all (apart from the game-breaking bugs). The concept is quite simple. Death isn't a big factor. A lot of people have written up excellent guides on how to tackle them.

    However, a lot of players in random instances will simply just not read, listen or communicate at all. Therein lies some of the problems as well.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    hustin1 wrote: »
    before I invest any effort into Draconic Templar I have to ask: is there any point in getting this shiny, new gear if the effective defense is always going to be zero against them? What is the point?

    For almost everyone, Draconic Templar is a lot worse than T2 (or T1 for DCs), in general.
  • shadevpshadevp Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    odd111out wrote: »
    Overall, it's been frustrating because I was expecting release content that was fun like Malabog's Castle and Valindra's Tower, where it felt like a group of people working together against Evil Doers. But poor design, lag, and a deteriorating player community have contributed to it being an overall disappointment.

    I will point out that a lot of what had people screaming on Friday and Saturday has declined greatly-people not working together, not getting gems, etc. Even the non-English crowd has mostly caught on, likely due to the posting of several videos on YouTube and the like. Also I know of several non-English sites for this game have also posted written guides.

    So...

    1. Fix the Lag. For those who have gotten the weird super Dragon Head Lag, I've had to either suicide or unslot the gem (for a second). I've always noticed that the Lag at the heads starts during a roar section, but I don't know if that really has anything to do with it.

    2. Redesign the starting area. Get rid of the central campfire and have it spawn only when the event starts. Its harder to organize, or encourage people to organize, into colored groups when they are instinctively motivated to stand by it. Also people at each area need to be able to clearly see each other and the other groups, so that two groups don't get accidentally made and so that some trading is possible-clerics etc.

    3. Party Leaders should gain a colored flame above their heads. The person who wants to be leader for that color can go gain it as a "flag" by being the first one to touch the colored flame in the start area. That way it will be quicker and easier (and clearer for non-English speakers) which groups have been made and who to get an invite from. The flame does not need to be permanent, and could expire when the event starts.

    4. Set a GS requirement to 14k for Tiamat. I can see the argument that from a business side of things you don't want people drawn to try the game by Tiamat adverts and then told they can't run the content until the do previous releases (although they can pay). But a 14k GS is a reasonable expectation and it's not hard to achieve. People need to spend some time running 5 party content before doing 25 party content.

    ** There really should have been a Major 5 Party Dungeon in this expansion, as well as Tiamat. One that was open to people less than 14k GS, that they could see as a stepping stone to Tiamat. **

    5. Add a NPC or two in front of the Temple, Spies or whatever, who can give the player a brief description of the fight and their role. Also, a merchant so people can do bag inventory in that five minute gap between the Heralds and Tiamat without running back to camp.

    I've also been experiencing wonky damage from Legion Devils, when I'm clean of debuffs, as if they were ignoring my DR. I've not had any trouble with the Eyrines one-shotting me. Or if there is some invisible debuff that can't be Cleansed?

    On a final note, I would point out that you have walled off most of the Religion Kits in last Thursday's patch when you put clear walls around the altars at the Herald spawn locations. I have submitted bug reports.

    I'm not against 5-parties being able to Q for the event, but I am against the effects of instance switching. Several times what are obviously premade late joiners have left an instance short, so there are only 20 people. Twice when it happened today it was an almost certain win until the instance got left hanging with out a team for that color. Let there be premade 5-parties but that's it. No instance switching, no going out the door and re-entering. Leaving should give you a penalty similar to PvP-quitting. And perhaps a severe inactivity penalty that logs you out to take care of people sitting at the campfire for the whole thing.

    These are truly reasonable suggestions. Liked all of them.
  • lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    c1k4ml3kc3 wrote: »
    the people who actually KNEW how to play

    Reading the posts, there are different opinions on what the right strat is. Some ppl say to zerg one head at a time, some ppl say one group on each head, some ppl say it's just a matter of DPS, some ppl say whatever strat will fail because of all the bugs and glitches.

    So fair, I'd say that "how to play" this skirmish is still unclear.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    lewel555 wrote: »
    Reading the posts, there are different opinions on what the right strat is. Some ppl say to zerg one head at a time, some ppl say one group on each head, some ppl say it's just a matter of DPS, some ppl say whatever strat will fail because of all the bugs and glitches.

    So fair, I'd say that "how to play" this skirmish is still unclear.
    when you trust people with you 5 people on each is ok if the dps is really high.
    otherwise the best tactic i found until know is to start with the "higher heads" (blue/green) with at least 6-7 people, bring them down to 15% and then JUMP on the lower ones and do the same until you have time.
    With random pugs zerging (or better 2 zerging groups starting from opposite heads namely white and black) is instead the best answer.
  • lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    asterotg wrote: »
    Half of the times I completed Tiamat, I did get no favor. Good job.
    tickdoff wrote: »
    If Tiamat dies you get a Linu's favor, no matter what position you finish in.

    Now it's getting confusing.
This discussion has been closed.