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Official Feedback Thread: Other Balance Changes

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  • destinyknightdestinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    they already basicaly one shot people with undodgable icy rays.
  • fecyafecya Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    In my opinion the classes of warlock and Control Wizard still do too much damage. Especially the Daily from Warlock Tyrannical Threat is too overpowered and decreases the fun of the game. Endgame content gets too easy with 2 CW's and a SW in most random teams and nothing is a real challenge at the moment. The storm spell nerf wont hit cw's hard, since most CW's will change to Renegade path and get 30% crit when a certain buff procs+eye of the storm and Oppressive Force and Time Steal still do too much dmg for beeing "control spells". Changes to all these things could give HRs, TRs and GWF's a chance to find a role in certain dungeon runs and the content wont get be solved too easy, that means people need to try harder and invest more time or money.
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Casting time doesn't increase 1 shot damage.

    I don't want to look through 76 pages. What did they do to Chilling Presence, besides doubling the crit chance if you happened to take Chilling Advantage, instead of Arcane Masterful Theft?
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The storm spell nerf wont hit cw's hard, since most CW's will change to Renegade path and get 30% crit when a certain buff procs+eye of the storm and Oppressive Force and Time Steal still do too much dmg for beeing "control spells". Changes to all these things could give HRs, TRs and GWF's a chance to find a role in certain dungeon runs and the content wont get be solved too easy, that means people need to try harder and invest more time or money

    While Renegade will be a little better in mod 5 than in mod 4, I don't see many, if any, Thaums rushing to switch over.

    Next, it sounds like you're describing Chaotic Nexus. Chaotic Nexus and EotS to proc at the same time is not something that happens often, Besides, Chaotic Fury (+30% damage) is better than Nexus. Chaotic Fury procs even less often.

    I got Fury, Eye, and Wild Hunt buffs all at the same time today, and my Ice Knife hit for about 60K. Yipee! My GWFs IBS, my DCs Daunting Light, and my HRs at will, Aimed Shot, routinely crit that hard without a bunch of random procs.
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Let me add to that: HRs and TRs almost always out damage my Renegade in ToD content. Even in mod 3, GWFs always gave me a run for my money. That they have less to offer in mod 4 is the devs fault, not the CWs.
  • lococatt91lococatt91 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 162 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    There are a couple of TRs and HRs (pvpers) that generate about half the comments on the entire preview forum.
    Ill summarize every comment they have ever made for you.
    My class is weak and needs major buffs and every other class is way OP and needs nerfed.
    Welcome to preview forums.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    feedback: Ferocious reaction isn't fixed

    i4k96u.jpg
  • madnitezzmadnitezz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Hi, guys. I am new to the game but has been playing mmorpg for quite some time.
    I am excited to see things are being discussed to make the game better, just one thing I dont really understand.

    Many posts discussing about this or that class is op because they can one shot ppl, especially CW in PVP context. But isnt pvp a 5v5 game? If you wander off far from your team backup and act brainlessly, you should deserve the punishment. In other hand, CW is very squishy, without his team, he is an easy food to most of the melee classes.

    I think its good for Devs to maintain the OP-ness of each class, because it defines the class characteristic (why do we need 7 classes if everyone can do similar damage and control and have similar defense?). And i think the OP-ness can be neutralized if we think about it in a 5v5 situation.

    Please explain to me if i am wrong, so that i can learn. :)
  • isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    bug
    Regular/unempowered/non-divine sunburst goes through all cc immunity skills and shift abilities
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    madnitezz wrote: »
    Hi, guys. I am new to the game but has been playing mmorpg for quite some time.
    I am excited to see things are being discussed to make the game better, just one thing I dont really understand.

    Many posts discussing about this or that class is op because they can one shot ppl, especially CW in PVP context. But isnt pvp a 5v5 game? If you wander off far from your team backup and act brainlessly, you should deserve the punishment. In other hand, CW is very squishy, without his team, he is an easy food to most of the melee classes.

    I think its good for Devs to maintain the OP-ness of each class, because it defines the class characteristic (why do we need 7 classes if everyone can do similar damage and control and have similar defense?). And i think the OP-ness can be neutralized if we think about it in a 5v5 situation.

    Please explain to me if i am wrong, so that i can learn. :)

    you bring interesting things.
    but like you said this game is played 5vs5.
    so each class should have his own role.

    lets start with:
    1 CW. CW has the role to control , that means he freezes targets until he manages to kill them. but that doesn't make him a one shot class. he should only have the privilege to control and kill target, little by little. ofc he should be squishy with little deflect. and low DR. (not having defensive stats on the same as GF/GWF)
    2. HR. Hunter ranger has the roles of control/striker , that means he controls them and do nice dps, but now he is the tankiest class in the game and overpowered class in the game, making him unbeatable on 1vs1.
    with redglyphs and his own dps, the combat paragon gives him alot of ways to selfheal.
    3. Tricksters are a striker role, on live test they lacked DPS, but have plenty of ways to survive. on Preview shard, they gave them huge DPS but has alot of ways to survive., once you get it how to play it the TR on preview shard, you will realise that it's OP

    so how i see it right now. is to make all this 3 classes in par with how they have defensive stats such as deflect/defend
    and let them be offensive.
    if this game is all about OP-ness, this will surerly die at some point.
    i would really like to see those PIE CHARTS of how many people left/came/active are to this game.

    GWF / GF are probably the most equal ones
    (not puttin in disscusion the GWF sentinel)

    so how we can repair and make the classes be balanced.

    and when i say balanced is to make them have a fair and square fight.

    first of all, this game doesnt have dual specc. so changes for pvp should be made on only this idea if u rolled a pvp character for only that reason.
    cause picking feats that are suitable for pve, they dont work on pvp.

    devs and gentleman crush dont know that, takin in consideration that even their employ akromatika , plays his GWF using not so fast/mighty leap/ restoring strike in pvp, and those aren't encounters for pvp.

    this thread on picking up feedback isnt gettin us nowhere, why?

    because this game has the potential to attract both PVE players (because of the D&D lore) and has the potential for PVP because of it's mechanics. (2 atwills, 3 encounters , 2 passives , TAB , 2 dailies etc) not to say the Target Cursor.

    What should they do to not kill the pvp community is to work togheter with them.
    how?
    well they need to pick a team, people can offer for that reason, i can pick 10-15 players from game that can offer their time to help you devs on testing things out. and give a properly feedback, and know what we are talkin about when we give you a feedback and how things work out.

    if we put our heads togheter in like 2 weeks we can attain 7 classes to be balanced and be enjoyable by players and make the game enjoyable to new players as well.

    maybe you dont get it.. but alot of people are attracted by PVP games that are mostly mmorpgs. and with such good mechanics from neverwinter this game could rock.

    you only need to be helped by people that are playin this game, stop pretending we are not here, cause we want this game to be at his full potential.

    there is no point if we pretend that things dont exist, why would you not want to improve the game.

    i dont get it how you guys are doing this job. i mean 4 months, and i dont see anything stabled on TR/DC reworks. i belive the reason is that you dont have enough testers, or your testers dont know things out. thats why we can do this things for free for you. you dont need to pay us, cause we mostly do it to help you guys that in the last it will help us.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    There are a couple of TRs and HRs (pvpers) that generate about half the comments on the entire preview forum.
    Ill summarize every comment they have ever made for you.
    My class is weak and needs major buffs and every other class is way OP and needs nerfed.
    Welcome to preview forums.

    ^^ what this guy wrote ....

    A bit sad but very much close to the truth.

    Feedback instigator..

    Instigator need as mentioned before more survivability and some major rework on t2-t3-t4 feats to make it valid in both pve and pvp.
    There have been several suggestion about what is needed to be done about feats all from more control, some that helps mark enemys, change buffs to other usefull encounters etc etc but the devs dont even seem notice or pay attension to these suggestions.

    Any chanse we can have some feedback to the instigator path or do we assume that what is now goes live ???
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    marnival wrote: »
    ^^ what this guy wrote ....

    A bit sad but very much close to the truth.

    Feedback instigator..

    Instigator need as mentioned before more survivability and some major rework on t2-t3-t4 feats to make it valid in both pve and pvp.
    There have been several suggestion about what is needed to be done about feats all from more control, some that helps mark enemys, change buffs to other usefull encounters etc etc but the devs dont even seem notice or pay attension to these suggestions.

    Any chanse we can have some feedback to the instigator path or do we assume that what is now goes live ???

    we can assume that this will mostly go live, but that is disappointment.

    i hope after the release of mod 5, they will really listen to us and cooperate with us.
  • tarftgmtarftgm Banned Users Posts: 169 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    Spellplague... (the no GWF land)

    No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.

    Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.

    there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.

    TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg

    there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    tarftgm wrote: »
    Spellplague... (the no GWF land)

    No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.

    Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.

    there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.

    TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg

    there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN

    Why does a GWF want to go in those dungeons?! Give you a hint: draconic gear does a better job at keeping you alive and is not that behind, dmg wise, from AoW.

    There is no reason to run any t2 dungeons (pretty sad)....
  • demonkyuubidemonkyuubi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tarftgm wrote: »

    Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.

    there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.
    situational. any boss with an aoe that forces a rogue to dodge away regularly will allow a gwf to out-dps a rogue in single-target. even hunters can out-dps a rogue that way if they are good at dodging in melee.
    tarftgm wrote: »
    TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg

    there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN

    rogues get invited regularly into random groups for CN from lfg? thought that was mainly wizard heaven with them carrying anyone they want (if they even want to carry).

    by the way, aren't there videos of gwf's soloing dungeons by simply not dying to anything? the same things can be said right back at your class you know but it doesn't matter in the end. 1-2 highly-geared and good wizards can solo anything in the entire game simply due to the fact that they are the majority of group dps anyways.
  • hedgebethedgebet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tarftgm wrote: »
    Spellplague... (the no GWF land)

    No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.

    Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.

    there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.

    TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg

    there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN

    Are you asking on a nerf to the GWF? You know that depending on the build and setup a GWF has more single target damage than a TR.
  • hbreed72hbreed72 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Spellplague... (the no GWF land)

    No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.

    Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.

    there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.

    TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg

    there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN

    Uhm bro you sure you're playing mod 4?
  • demonkyuubidemonkyuubi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    Normal ones? sure. Soloing CN or Epic versions of the normal dungeons as CW-class do right now on live??? If a video like this exists, pls, post here, i want to watch how a GWF in pbis finish CN or so alone.

    castle never 1st boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZSOoWrwJ8o

    kinda a pain to search through dozens of videos though......

    found a few about malabog though
  • dante126pldante126pl Banned Users Posts: 257 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    castle never 1st boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZSOoWrwJ8o

    kinda a pain to search through dozens of videos though......

    found a few about malabog though

    yes soloing 1st boss means soloing entire dungeon

    /inserts facepalm
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    for the record: this is a m2 video.

    "No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs"

    this is a beta times description, hahahaha, the bizarre to me, in m4, is see one 12k gs melting the unstoppable enemies of the last boss like i see. in the past, people are kicked if dont have repel.

    ps: pug using my dc... good times... good Challenges (m3,m2,m1).
  • thedemienthedemien Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    Let me add to that: HRs and TRs almost always out damage my Renegade in ToD content. Even in mod 3, GWFs always gave me a run for my money. That they have less to offer in mod 4 is the devs fault, not the CWs.

    ToD content is way more single target focus - small groups, tought enemies. As example my combat HR ~ 21k GS deals close damage to my guildmate CW taum ~19-20k GS almost all the run. Yet on esot boss I do place way more damage then him that leads to first place in paingiver. Simmilar picture is for elol. This a dungeon design. It does not make CW useless in them yet it makes stacking CW easy less profitable then getting a TR or other single target focus player. It is good thing imho.

    Yet All T2 content was and will still favor stacking CW. We run PK yesterday - 2 CW 1 temp SW. no one else is needed. 5-6 minutes run. Just as example.
    MOD 5 gives more <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with HE and 25 zerg run with 10k GS requirment. So picture wont really change. Only that there will be way less top people farming elol for belts.
  • demonkyuubidemonkyuubi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    dante126pl wrote: »
    yes soloing 1st boss means soloing entire dungeon

    /inserts facepalm

    i said in the very post that it's like digging through a hundred videos of varying things just to find a few about solo even if i have "solo" as a search criteria. i am not willing to dig through the entirety of google but i have heard of gwf's soloing dracolich. if you want more then search for them yourself.
  • etopistetopist Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Just tested renegade CW on PTR with last Rise of Tiamat Preview Patch NW.35.20141104a.1 and found 2 issues.

    1. Chillling Advanatge does not increase crit chance when slotted. Tested with at-wills and encounters using ACT (Advanced Combat Tracker) - no crit chance increase.

    2. Chaotic Nexus increases armpen by 800 regardless of armpen I have, not by 30% of my armpen as it's stated in description. I tested with 1500 armpen and 2200 armpen - got the same +800 from Chaotic Nexus.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    i said in the very post that it's like digging through a hundred videos of varying things just to find a few about solo even if i have "solo" as a search criteria. i am not willing to dig through the entirety of google but i have heard of gwf's soloing dracolich. if you want more then search for them yourself.

    I do not doubt that a live sentinel or a m3 destroyer can. a current destroyer is very unlikely, and if can, will use punishing change+alavanch of steel, thus carrying a considerable time, and a lot out of what is supposed to do a gwf (dps-defender).
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    castle never 1st boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZSOoWrwJ8o

    kinda a pain to search through dozens of videos though......

    found a few about malabog though

    I had the pleasure to play with Gretzko quite a few times. He was a great guy and a very good PvE GWF. He soloed first 3 bosses in CN back when the days GWF had the crazy Deep Gash damage and competed with CWs in CN.

    The PvE meta was not Life Steal back then, and without it it's kinda impossible to kill the last boss.

    I have no doubts Gretzko or Valiant, if still in the game, would easily solo draco.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    nerf GWF .. with a video from m2.. nerf it..
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tarftgm wrote: »
    Spellplague... (the no GWF land)

    No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.

    Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.

    there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.

    TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg

    there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN

    Lol I'd much rather take my GWF to SP than my CW.

    My CW slots none of those powers in SP, except Sing, but I use OF far more often, even at the last boss. I rarely use Sing because they did put a target cap on it. Welcome to mod 4!

    I can't think of any T2 mobs that force my GWF out of the red.

    I admit that I haven't run dungeons with my TR since mod 2 or 3, but ITC has a long cool down. I was constantly dodging reds and using ranged powers.
  • midnightfang93midnightfang93 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    i said in the very post that it's like digging through a hundred videos of varying things just to find a few about solo even if i have "solo" as a search criteria. i am not willing to dig through the entirety of google but i have heard of gwf's soloing dracolich. if you want more then search for them yourself.

    If your video was from M4 then you might have a point, but that's from M2...at least get something that shows existing performance, not past performance. Deep Gash is still doing criticals in that video!
  • demonkyuubidemonkyuubi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If your video was from M4 then you might have a point, but that's from M2...at least get something that shows existing performance, not past performance. Deep Gash is still doing criticals in that video!

    i'm not gonna search for hundreds of videos when only 10% of them are actually solo and further dwindled by date/class/etc

    although i feel that the guy i was originally arguing against is exaggerating a lot. many dungeons have walls that prevent advancement until you kill everything which is an extreme deterrance to a perma. not really sure which ones they can actually complete by themselves and not take an eternity.

    i'm not defending perma, but simply against more nerf ideas because it exists >.>
  • jayrad8jayrad8 Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    etopist wrote: »
    Just tested renegade CW on PTR with last Rise of Tiamat Preview Patch NW.35.20141104a.1 and found 2 issues.

    Thank you for reporting these!
    etopist wrote: »
    1. Chillling Advanatge does not increase crit chance when slotted. Tested with at-wills and encounters using ACT (Advanced Combat Tracker) - no crit chance increase.

    Confirmed via my own testing and Bug Report submitted here.
    etopist wrote: »
    2. Chaotic Nexus increases armpen by 800 regardless of armpen I have, not by 30% of my armpen as it's stated in description. I tested with 1500 armpen and 2200 armpen - got the same +800 from Chaotic Nexus.

    Were you using Red Glyphs at the time of testing? That may be why your Arp was increased by 800. I noticed zero effect Chaotic Nexus in my testing, and zero effect from Armor Penetration on Ray of Frost in general.
    Ezra@jayrad8 | M4 CW Class Advocate
    twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
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