And you sad that i have issues with CWs. Now we know that is just you. lol. So one shot CW is exacly what should be fair. I ll kill CWs now with even more pleasure lol. CWs i guess must be nerfed cause of people like you -buthurted CWs with no skill.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
In my opinion the classes of warlock and Control Wizard still do too much damage. Especially the Daily from Warlock Tyrannical Threat is too overpowered and decreases the fun of the game. Endgame content gets too easy with 2 CW's and a SW in most random teams and nothing is a real challenge at the moment. The storm spell nerf wont hit cw's hard, since most CW's will change to Renegade path and get 30% crit when a certain buff procs+eye of the storm and Oppressive Force and Time Steal still do too much dmg for beeing "control spells". Changes to all these things could give HRs, TRs and GWF's a chance to find a role in certain dungeon runs and the content wont get be solved too easy, that means people need to try harder and invest more time or money.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited November 2014
Casting time doesn't increase 1 shot damage.
I don't want to look through 76 pages. What did they do to Chilling Presence, besides doubling the crit chance if you happened to take Chilling Advantage, instead of Arcane Masterful Theft?
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited November 2014
The storm spell nerf wont hit cw's hard, since most CW's will change to Renegade path and get 30% crit when a certain buff procs+eye of the storm and Oppressive Force and Time Steal still do too much dmg for beeing "control spells". Changes to all these things could give HRs, TRs and GWF's a chance to find a role in certain dungeon runs and the content wont get be solved too easy, that means people need to try harder and invest more time or money
While Renegade will be a little better in mod 5 than in mod 4, I don't see many, if any, Thaums rushing to switch over.
Next, it sounds like you're describing Chaotic Nexus. Chaotic Nexus and EotS to proc at the same time is not something that happens often, Besides, Chaotic Fury (+30% damage) is better than Nexus. Chaotic Fury procs even less often.
I got Fury, Eye, and Wild Hunt buffs all at the same time today, and my Ice Knife hit for about 60K. Yipee! My GWFs IBS, my DCs Daunting Light, and my HRs at will, Aimed Shot, routinely crit that hard without a bunch of random procs.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited November 2014
Let me add to that: HRs and TRs almost always out damage my Renegade in ToD content. Even in mod 3, GWFs always gave me a run for my money. That they have less to offer in mod 4 is the devs fault, not the CWs.
There are a couple of TRs and HRs (pvpers) that generate about half the comments on the entire preview forum.
Ill summarize every comment they have ever made for you.
My class is weak and needs major buffs and every other class is way OP and needs nerfed.
Welcome to preview forums.
Hi, guys. I am new to the game but has been playing mmorpg for quite some time.
I am excited to see things are being discussed to make the game better, just one thing I dont really understand.
Many posts discussing about this or that class is op because they can one shot ppl, especially CW in PVP context. But isnt pvp a 5v5 game? If you wander off far from your team backup and act brainlessly, you should deserve the punishment. In other hand, CW is very squishy, without his team, he is an easy food to most of the melee classes.
I think its good for Devs to maintain the OP-ness of each class, because it defines the class characteristic (why do we need 7 classes if everyone can do similar damage and control and have similar defense?). And i think the OP-ness can be neutralized if we think about it in a 5v5 situation.
Please explain to me if i am wrong, so that i can learn.
Hi, guys. I am new to the game but has been playing mmorpg for quite some time.
I am excited to see things are being discussed to make the game better, just one thing I dont really understand.
Many posts discussing about this or that class is op because they can one shot ppl, especially CW in PVP context. But isnt pvp a 5v5 game? If you wander off far from your team backup and act brainlessly, you should deserve the punishment. In other hand, CW is very squishy, without his team, he is an easy food to most of the melee classes.
I think its good for Devs to maintain the OP-ness of each class, because it defines the class characteristic (why do we need 7 classes if everyone can do similar damage and control and have similar defense?). And i think the OP-ness can be neutralized if we think about it in a 5v5 situation.
Please explain to me if i am wrong, so that i can learn.
you bring interesting things.
but like you said this game is played 5vs5.
so each class should have his own role.
lets start with:
1 CW. CW has the role to control , that means he freezes targets until he manages to kill them. but that doesn't make him a one shot class. he should only have the privilege to control and kill target, little by little. ofc he should be squishy with little deflect. and low DR. (not having defensive stats on the same as GF/GWF)
2. HR. Hunter ranger has the roles of control/striker , that means he controls them and do nice dps, but now he is the tankiest class in the game and overpowered class in the game, making him unbeatable on 1vs1.
with redglyphs and his own dps, the combat paragon gives him alot of ways to selfheal.
3. Tricksters are a striker role, on live test they lacked DPS, but have plenty of ways to survive. on Preview shard, they gave them huge DPS but has alot of ways to survive., once you get it how to play it the TR on preview shard, you will realise that it's OP
so how i see it right now. is to make all this 3 classes in par with how they have defensive stats such as deflect/defend
and let them be offensive.
if this game is all about OP-ness, this will surerly die at some point.
i would really like to see those PIE CHARTS of how many people left/came/active are to this game.
GWF / GF are probably the most equal ones
(not puttin in disscusion the GWF sentinel)
so how we can repair and make the classes be balanced.
and when i say balanced is to make them have a fair and square fight.
first of all, this game doesnt have dual specc. so changes for pvp should be made on only this idea if u rolled a pvp character for only that reason.
cause picking feats that are suitable for pve, they dont work on pvp.
devs and gentleman crush dont know that, takin in consideration that even their employ akromatika , plays his GWF using not so fast/mighty leap/ restoring strike in pvp, and those aren't encounters for pvp.
this thread on picking up feedback isnt gettin us nowhere, why?
because this game has the potential to attract both PVE players (because of the D&D lore) and has the potential for PVP because of it's mechanics. (2 atwills, 3 encounters , 2 passives , TAB , 2 dailies etc) not to say the Target Cursor.
What should they do to not kill the pvp community is to work togheter with them.
how?
well they need to pick a team, people can offer for that reason, i can pick 10-15 players from game that can offer their time to help you devs on testing things out. and give a properly feedback, and know what we are talkin about when we give you a feedback and how things work out.
if we put our heads togheter in like 2 weeks we can attain 7 classes to be balanced and be enjoyable by players and make the game enjoyable to new players as well.
maybe you dont get it.. but alot of people are attracted by PVP games that are mostly mmorpgs. and with such good mechanics from neverwinter this game could rock.
you only need to be helped by people that are playin this game, stop pretending we are not here, cause we want this game to be at his full potential.
there is no point if we pretend that things dont exist, why would you not want to improve the game.
i dont get it how you guys are doing this job. i mean 4 months, and i dont see anything stabled on TR/DC reworks. i belive the reason is that you dont have enough testers, or your testers dont know things out. thats why we can do this things for free for you. you dont need to pay us, cause we mostly do it to help you guys that in the last it will help us.
There are a couple of TRs and HRs (pvpers) that generate about half the comments on the entire preview forum.
Ill summarize every comment they have ever made for you.
My class is weak and needs major buffs and every other class is way OP and needs nerfed.
Welcome to preview forums.
^^ what this guy wrote ....
A bit sad but very much close to the truth.
Feedback instigator..
Instigator need as mentioned before more survivability and some major rework on t2-t3-t4 feats to make it valid in both pve and pvp.
There have been several suggestion about what is needed to be done about feats all from more control, some that helps mark enemys, change buffs to other usefull encounters etc etc but the devs dont even seem notice or pay attension to these suggestions.
Any chanse we can have some feedback to the instigator path or do we assume that what is now goes live ???
Instigator need as mentioned before more survivability and some major rework on t2-t3-t4 feats to make it valid in both pve and pvp.
There have been several suggestion about what is needed to be done about feats all from more control, some that helps mark enemys, change buffs to other usefull encounters etc etc but the devs dont even seem notice or pay attension to these suggestions.
Any chanse we can have some feedback to the instigator path or do we assume that what is now goes live ???
we can assume that this will mostly go live, but that is disappointment.
i hope after the release of mod 5, they will really listen to us and cooperate with us.
No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.
Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.
there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.
TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg
No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.
Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.
there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.
TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg
there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN
Why does a GWF want to go in those dungeons?! Give you a hint: draconic gear does a better job at keeping you alive and is not that behind, dmg wise, from AoW.
There is no reason to run any t2 dungeons (pretty sad)....
Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.
there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.
situational. any boss with an aoe that forces a rogue to dodge away regularly will allow a gwf to out-dps a rogue in single-target. even hunters can out-dps a rogue that way if they are good at dodging in melee.
TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg
there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN
rogues get invited regularly into random groups for CN from lfg? thought that was mainly wizard heaven with them carrying anyone they want (if they even want to carry).
by the way, aren't there videos of gwf's soloing dungeons by simply not dying to anything? the same things can be said right back at your class you know but it doesn't matter in the end. 1-2 highly-geared and good wizards can solo anything in the entire game simply due to the fact that they are the majority of group dps anyways.
No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.
Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.
there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.
TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg
there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN
Are you asking on a nerf to the GWF? You know that depending on the build and setup a GWF has more single target damage than a TR.
No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.
Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.
there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.
TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg
Normal ones? sure. Soloing CN or Epic versions of the normal dungeons as CW-class do right now on live??? If a video like this exists, pls, post here, i want to watch how a GWF in pbis finish CN or so alone.
"No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs"
this is a beta times description, hahahaha, the bizarre to me, in m4, is see one 12k gs melting the unstoppable enemies of the last boss like i see. in the past, people are kicked if dont have repel.
ps: pug using my dc... good times... good Challenges (m3,m2,m1).
Let me add to that: HRs and TRs almost always out damage my Renegade in ToD content. Even in mod 3, GWFs always gave me a run for my money. That they have less to offer in mod 4 is the devs fault, not the CWs.
ToD content is way more single target focus - small groups, tought enemies. As example my combat HR ~ 21k GS deals close damage to my guildmate CW taum ~19-20k GS almost all the run. Yet on esot boss I do place way more damage then him that leads to first place in paingiver. Simmilar picture is for elol. This a dungeon design. It does not make CW useless in them yet it makes stacking CW easy less profitable then getting a TR or other single target focus player. It is good thing imho.
Yet All T2 content was and will still favor stacking CW. We run PK yesterday - 2 CW 1 temp SW. no one else is needed. 5-6 minutes run. Just as example.
MOD 5 gives more <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with HE and 25 zerg run with 10k GS requirment. So picture wont really change. Only that there will be way less top people farming elol for belts.
i said in the very post that it's like digging through a hundred videos of varying things just to find a few about solo even if i have "solo" as a search criteria. i am not willing to dig through the entirety of google but i have heard of gwf's soloing dracolich. if you want more then search for them yourself.
Just tested renegade CW on PTR with last Rise of Tiamat Preview Patch NW.35.20141104a.1 and found 2 issues.
1. Chillling Advanatge does not increase crit chance when slotted. Tested with at-wills and encounters using ACT (Advanced Combat Tracker) - no crit chance increase.
2. Chaotic Nexus increases armpen by 800 regardless of armpen I have, not by 30% of my armpen as it's stated in description. I tested with 1500 armpen and 2200 armpen - got the same +800 from Chaotic Nexus.
Comments
And you sad that i have issues with CWs. Now we know that is just you. lol. So one shot CW is exacly what should be fair. I ll kill CWs now with even more pleasure lol. CWs i guess must be nerfed cause of people like you -buthurted CWs with no skill.
Which change allows this to happen?
Chilling presence
I don't want to look through 76 pages. What did they do to Chilling Presence, besides doubling the crit chance if you happened to take Chilling Advantage, instead of Arcane Masterful Theft?
While Renegade will be a little better in mod 5 than in mod 4, I don't see many, if any, Thaums rushing to switch over.
Next, it sounds like you're describing Chaotic Nexus. Chaotic Nexus and EotS to proc at the same time is not something that happens often, Besides, Chaotic Fury (+30% damage) is better than Nexus. Chaotic Fury procs even less often.
I got Fury, Eye, and Wild Hunt buffs all at the same time today, and my Ice Knife hit for about 60K. Yipee! My GWFs IBS, my DCs Daunting Light, and my HRs at will, Aimed Shot, routinely crit that hard without a bunch of random procs.
Ill summarize every comment they have ever made for you.
My class is weak and needs major buffs and every other class is way OP and needs nerfed.
Welcome to preview forums.
I am excited to see things are being discussed to make the game better, just one thing I dont really understand.
Many posts discussing about this or that class is op because they can one shot ppl, especially CW in PVP context. But isnt pvp a 5v5 game? If you wander off far from your team backup and act brainlessly, you should deserve the punishment. In other hand, CW is very squishy, without his team, he is an easy food to most of the melee classes.
I think its good for Devs to maintain the OP-ness of each class, because it defines the class characteristic (why do we need 7 classes if everyone can do similar damage and control and have similar defense?). And i think the OP-ness can be neutralized if we think about it in a 5v5 situation.
Please explain to me if i am wrong, so that i can learn.
Regular/unempowered/non-divine sunburst goes through all cc immunity skills and shift abilities
you bring interesting things.
but like you said this game is played 5vs5.
so each class should have his own role.
lets start with:
1 CW. CW has the role to control , that means he freezes targets until he manages to kill them. but that doesn't make him a one shot class. he should only have the privilege to control and kill target, little by little. ofc he should be squishy with little deflect. and low DR. (not having defensive stats on the same as GF/GWF)
2. HR. Hunter ranger has the roles of control/striker , that means he controls them and do nice dps, but now he is the tankiest class in the game and overpowered class in the game, making him unbeatable on 1vs1.
with redglyphs and his own dps, the combat paragon gives him alot of ways to selfheal.
3. Tricksters are a striker role, on live test they lacked DPS, but have plenty of ways to survive. on Preview shard, they gave them huge DPS but has alot of ways to survive., once you get it how to play it the TR on preview shard, you will realise that it's OP
so how i see it right now. is to make all this 3 classes in par with how they have defensive stats such as deflect/defend
and let them be offensive.
if this game is all about OP-ness, this will surerly die at some point.
i would really like to see those PIE CHARTS of how many people left/came/active are to this game.
GWF / GF are probably the most equal ones
(not puttin in disscusion the GWF sentinel)
so how we can repair and make the classes be balanced.
and when i say balanced is to make them have a fair and square fight.
first of all, this game doesnt have dual specc. so changes for pvp should be made on only this idea if u rolled a pvp character for only that reason.
cause picking feats that are suitable for pve, they dont work on pvp.
devs and gentleman crush dont know that, takin in consideration that even their employ akromatika , plays his GWF using not so fast/mighty leap/ restoring strike in pvp, and those aren't encounters for pvp.
this thread on picking up feedback isnt gettin us nowhere, why?
because this game has the potential to attract both PVE players (because of the D&D lore) and has the potential for PVP because of it's mechanics. (2 atwills, 3 encounters , 2 passives , TAB , 2 dailies etc) not to say the Target Cursor.
What should they do to not kill the pvp community is to work togheter with them.
how?
well they need to pick a team, people can offer for that reason, i can pick 10-15 players from game that can offer their time to help you devs on testing things out. and give a properly feedback, and know what we are talkin about when we give you a feedback and how things work out.
if we put our heads togheter in like 2 weeks we can attain 7 classes to be balanced and be enjoyable by players and make the game enjoyable to new players as well.
maybe you dont get it.. but alot of people are attracted by PVP games that are mostly mmorpgs. and with such good mechanics from neverwinter this game could rock.
you only need to be helped by people that are playin this game, stop pretending we are not here, cause we want this game to be at his full potential.
there is no point if we pretend that things dont exist, why would you not want to improve the game.
i dont get it how you guys are doing this job. i mean 4 months, and i dont see anything stabled on TR/DC reworks. i belive the reason is that you dont have enough testers, or your testers dont know things out. thats why we can do this things for free for you. you dont need to pay us, cause we mostly do it to help you guys that in the last it will help us.
^^ what this guy wrote ....
A bit sad but very much close to the truth.
Feedback instigator..
Instigator need as mentioned before more survivability and some major rework on t2-t3-t4 feats to make it valid in both pve and pvp.
There have been several suggestion about what is needed to be done about feats all from more control, some that helps mark enemys, change buffs to other usefull encounters etc etc but the devs dont even seem notice or pay attension to these suggestions.
Any chanse we can have some feedback to the instigator path or do we assume that what is now goes live ???
we can assume that this will mostly go live, but that is disappointment.
i hope after the release of mod 5, they will really listen to us and cooperate with us.
No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.
Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.
there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.
TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg
there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN
Why does a GWF want to go in those dungeons?! Give you a hint: draconic gear does a better job at keeping you alive and is not that behind, dmg wise, from AoW.
There is no reason to run any t2 dungeons (pretty sad)....
rogues get invited regularly into random groups for CN from lfg? thought that was mainly wizard heaven with them carrying anyone they want (if they even want to carry).
by the way, aren't there videos of gwf's soloing dungeons by simply not dying to anything? the same things can be said right back at your class you know but it doesn't matter in the end. 1-2 highly-geared and good wizards can solo anything in the entire game simply due to the fact that they are the majority of group dps anyways.
Are you asking on a nerf to the GWF? You know that depending on the build and setup a GWF has more single target damage than a TR.
Uhm bro you sure you're playing mod 4?
castle never 1st boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZSOoWrwJ8o
kinda a pain to search through dozens of videos though......
found a few about malabog though
yes soloing 1st boss means soloing entire dungeon
/inserts facepalm
"No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs"
this is a beta times description, hahahaha, the bizarre to me, in m4, is see one 12k gs melting the unstoppable enemies of the last boss like i see. in the past, people are kicked if dont have repel.
ps: pug using my dc... good times... good Challenges (m3,m2,m1).
ToD content is way more single target focus - small groups, tought enemies. As example my combat HR ~ 21k GS deals close damage to my guildmate CW taum ~19-20k GS almost all the run. Yet on esot boss I do place way more damage then him that leads to first place in paingiver. Simmilar picture is for elol. This a dungeon design. It does not make CW useless in them yet it makes stacking CW easy less profitable then getting a TR or other single target focus player. It is good thing imho.
Yet All T2 content was and will still favor stacking CW. We run PK yesterday - 2 CW 1 temp SW. no one else is needed. 5-6 minutes run. Just as example.
MOD 5 gives more <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with HE and 25 zerg run with 10k GS requirment. So picture wont really change. Only that there will be way less top people farming elol for belts.
i said in the very post that it's like digging through a hundred videos of varying things just to find a few about solo even if i have "solo" as a search criteria. i am not willing to dig through the entirety of google but i have heard of gwf's soloing dracolich. if you want more then search for them yourself.
1. Chillling Advanatge does not increase crit chance when slotted. Tested with at-wills and encounters using ACT (Advanced Combat Tracker) - no crit chance increase.
2. Chaotic Nexus increases armpen by 800 regardless of armpen I have, not by 30% of my armpen as it's stated in description. I tested with 1500 armpen and 2200 armpen - got the same +800 from Chaotic Nexus.