So instead of fixing CWs? Making IR dodgeable ?
or making CW not OP - see http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=9369421#post9369421 as proof
You try to approve current CW changes?
I don't know how you play.
But good CW I talked in game were stating that DPS was the same before new changes and CW did not need to be OP again. Both pvp or pve wise especially.
You had plenty idea how to fix GWF. Sure some of them may be acually good. macjae had ideas how to increase CW survivabilty. I even sad that some of them are really good if you forgot.
But now we have 70 or so CW in 50 pages of leaderboard. They learned how to play. Same as top HR. or Top GWF and GF. Learn to play is basic advice to all who whats to excel in his class.
Yet right now we have cheesy changed to intimidation as you sad on your own.
And with new changes CWs have faster time of cast, broken Storm Spell, Feet based passive damage that does not need any skill to place, ability to apply IR in movement while Crush himself sad that it is practically impossible to dodge already, Immunity frame on long dodge that works after dodge itself and all other stuff.
So now you have once again CW as top DPS and top Control. Not good in any way. I don't care how they will fix it. It complete unbalance plus having known bugs with undodgable CC that are "won't fix". This makes CW OP by using broken mechanics. Not thing I what to be.
All you idea of nerf HR and OP GWF and CW are no good. You could see that even good CWs say in this thread that This is too much. Same as preMod 4. Only OP players are happy about it.
There we go again,the usual nerf Cws talk,from the same people who constantly drone about it. You know,if you cry some more,and from what i see you do a lot in many posts,Cws will become even more "OP" ,as you put it,because the devs will dismiss your feedback as trolling. I'm not saying that it is mind you,that would be against forum rules,but it could be "mistaken" as such.
how many of those games had unstoppable an sprint ?
Fortunately, none has. A Fury-berserk that enhances nothing, a runaway feature for a Melee class in metal armour, fortunately the other games don't have this nonsense. D&D hasn't either. You clearly should stop whining, and start giving feedback, as this thread is for feedback.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Fortunately, none has. A Fury-berserk that enhances nothing, a runaway feature for a Melee class in metal armour, fortunately the other games don't have this nonsense. D&D hasn't either. You clearly should stop whining, and start giving feedback, as this thread is for feedback.
you started bringing some outdated trash games into this and asking for cw to kill melee classes 1v3
feedback ? whats the point they will anyway buff cws and and best gwf can hope for is some 672469426898 more stacks that take just 1234978623 hours to stack
and god forbid a cw will get killed in pvp by a gwf , they will change unstoppable to increase cc duration on caster by 100% and reduce damage resistance during it to 0
So what you're saying is that you'd really like CWs to be nothing but victims for GWFs, and hence you don't like changes that might help CWs not be victims. Got it.
well you(cw's) cried about unstoppable, now u got unstoppable and sprint, while HAMSTER up unstoppable for pve
with these mechanics in place cw would have to be op or gwf nerfed to the ground for it to be fair between the 2 classes
check leaderboards, top mostly hr and cw, but still cw qq
like sniper crying that a guy with smg is owning him in close combat
Guys it's simple , everyone wants to be top dog. remember roar? how some lame gwf's we're crying that it is ok as it is and should be left alone cuz if you change it then they won't be top dog anymore? how broken we're the builds using it? and yet 90% of the gwf's we're using it (respect for the 10% who we're above that nonsense) it's the same stuff right here with CW ofc they say: onoes we are underpowered and performing poorly and that is because HR still exists in pvp ... that class is so broken it's unbelievable and if you have the guts to say it's not broken and it's an underdog than please go back to playing in the sandbox like a clueless child that you are, back to the point, ofc the CW's want the upper hand because historically they have never been top dog in pvp sure it's ok to be no.2 but not for competitive players therefore they say the nerfs/buffs are ok and need even more than that cuz a skilled HR will still destroy them before they even realize what just happened so please stop this forum warrior carp and provide some feedback for the devs to make decent changes that bring the game to a more balanced version.
0
charkanramonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 51Arc User
edited November 2014
I liked the changes proposed for the CW. They reach over the two types of paths, but I believe that a balance between spellstorm and mof must be created. The damage from the smolder is ridiculous near the storm spell that can hit critical, smolder can not.
check leaderboards, top mostly hr and cw, but still cw qq
You need to ignore the idiots or post proof to make them shut up.
As for CWs at the top on leaderboard, lemme straighten this up:
- there are 3/20 on p1, lol
- first one is a CW that only plays premades, only with his guildies, all with rank 10s and BiS from the moment it is available, or duo-queues with some broken build such as reflect GF when that was the fotm.
- second one is some guy that played a billion games this mod
- third one is a random CW that got there by luck or w/e and stopped playing obviously, as he is stuck with same stats for weeks.
There are a few more good CWs in the first 10 pages, but most of them are trash that just got carried by their newly found OPness earlier in the mod, people that could never land a shard before and spent their time playing alts the past modules or PvE.
The GWF requires extremely specific setup (10k power+) and actually hitting an AoE CC (FLS) before nuking down targets. This has proven to be TOO HARD for the most PvP GWFs out there, and pretty much just 2 found their way to P1, and both never pug on GWF, all they do is premade/duo queue with some other OP class.
So if you think this data proves CW>GWF, I dunno what to say.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
That test was made with a Thauma/Renegade hybrid build.
Btw.: Earlier tests (NW.35.20141015a.2) I ran with the new Storm Spell list a 100% crit rate for the class feature. So contrary to what abaddon523 suggested, Storm Spell used to crit only in earlier releases.
Loboguild is correct. In the earlier build Storm Spell hits were always criticals. If they are no longer, that is a large nerf to the effectiveness of Storm Spell (intended or otherwise).
I think you should make Storm Spell be Spellstorm's baseline mechanic and nerf it a little bit, and remake that class feature slot with something that works around the Storm Spell mechanic.
That would make the paragon path look more mechanical instead of 'pew pew', and the difference between the two paragon paths would be more clear.
To the class itself - DEVs must rise the base damage for all at-wills, encounters and dailies around 30% - In the same way, DEVs must rise the base defense stat a 25% - Bring Unstop as it was on mod3 for both Gaining and DR mechanics
i suggested you on past when you were passing time criing nerf on other class to start learn how the game work to make constructive feedback. it not even a matter of interact with other class on pvp or pve, what you are asking is just stupid for the class it self.
1 the cap DR is 80%: when ever you goes higher than that you won't get higher than 80 %
2 any correct stuffed GWF turn around 40% base DR. with new equip you will get an additionnal 4% due to extra armor. so 44%. add 25 % that you are asking and you are at 69%:
3 here start to come your lack of understanding mechanism. actual unstop bring +15 + 30 DR, previous was +25 +50. 69+15 already more than 80 so what the point to goes back to v3 unstop since you already goes higher than 80 with what you are asking
4 sentinel way will have also +20 more. since it already over 80 like that, unstop have only the use of getting some extra HP and immun from control. nice catch.
So your resume is give GWf the highest defense and then we will only have to take the highest DPS path. DEV will not even need to work on 3 path only the highest DPS one will be taken
still no nerfs to broken op cw dps great another mod with cw to break whole game why is so hard to fix this class ? is it ok for u to let cw be ultimate game class for so long ?
still no nerfs to broken op cw dps great another mod with cw to break whole game why is so hard to fix this class ? is it ok for u to let cw be ultimate game class for so long ?
Please specify if your feedback is intended for PvE or PvP...
i have some doubts about the HR changes within the upcoming class balancing, and to be very specific its about the trapper tree.
i played my HR with the trapper tree, before that i've been nature but it is no more.
my HR is the average joe HR around, nothing fancy, using forest lord set (well maybe this is not the average , more of the underdog) and formorian set, 1 epic arti and 2 blueish, one r7 few more r6 and r5 and allure stone with lesser bonding and 2 r7.
recently i decided to respec to combat , full combat no side feats from the other trees.
the difference is considerably felt. using the same gear/boons/power and at-wills rotation and passive feats.
i strongly urge you to give some more TLC to the trapper tree. some critique i may have are , and sorry for the blunt approach:
the CC effect of the powers is minor, holding foes a little longer (using ancient roots) does not make any difference,
with high end parties it is a waste of DPS, with lower end parties its still better to have another CW to freeze them.
ancient roots feat is crappy as i mentioned before, and the thorned roots is crappy in my opinion, never seen it was doing something noticeable.
biting snare , well this suppose to be the highlight of the tree and its crappy in my opinion again (and this feat is going to get the love ?!?) .
the thing with the stances change - fleet and readied are minor effect not worth, speed is not really high and AP gain doesnt matter too much as HR dailies arent something DPS wise or control wise.
and mentioning control, what is the effect of the snare in cold steel hurricane, it doing nothing which worth spending power points on.
split the sky do the snare, i never notice anything particular about that snare effect, i just think split the sky power good because of the counter attack effect of it.
so either i am the crappy trapper HR around PE or something isnt really working for the trapper tree.
i really liked the nature tree, then it was change to trapper - i thought i can live with it, but now ... its looks like once you go combat you cant go back.
please give some more attention for that not so appealing trapper path.
i have some doubts about the HR changes within the upcoming class balancing, and to be very specific its about the trapper tree.
i played my HR with the trapper tree, before that i've been nature but it is no more.
my HR is the average joe HR around, nothing fancy, using forest lord set (well maybe this is not the average , more of the underdog) and formorian set, 1 epic arti and 2 blueish, one r7 few more r6 and r5 and allure stone with lesser bonding and 2 r7.
recently i decided to respec to combat , full combat no side feats from the other trees.
the difference is considerably felt. using the same gear/boons/power and at-wills rotation and passive feats.
i strongly urge you to give some more TLC to the trapper tree. some critique i may have are , and sorry for the blunt approach:
the CC effect of the powers is minor, holding foes a little longer (using ancient roots) does not make any difference,
with high end parties it is a waste of DPS, with lower end parties its still better to have another CW to freeze them.
ancient roots feat is crappy as i mentioned before, and the thorned roots is crappy in my opinion, never seen it was doing something noticeable.
biting snare , well this suppose to be the highlight of the tree and its crappy in my opinion again (and this feat is going to get the love ?!?) .
the thing with the stances change - fleet and readied are minor effect not worth, speed is not really high and AP gain doesnt matter too much as HR dailies arent something DPS wise or control wise.
and mentioning control, what is the effect of the snare in cold steel hurricane, it doing nothing which worth spending power points on.
split the sky do the snare, i never notice anything particular about that snare effect, i just think split the sky power good because of the counter attack effect of it.
so either i am the crappy trapper HR around PE or something isnt really working for the trapper tree.
i really liked the nature tree, then it was change to trapper - i thought i can live with it, but now ... its looks like once you go combat you cant go back.
please give some more attention for that not so appealing trapper path.
anyhow thanks for the game, i really like it.
IMO, they should lower the Tier of Wild Medicine to either T1 or T2 so other trees may also access it, but at a lesser efficiency, and then get rid of one of the other feats around T3~T4 and put in a feat that amplifies its effects, but placed at a clever location so the Combat HR must give up something, during its feat point placement, rather than have it being the only path that enjoys the full "might" of the Combat path, and also gains access to key features like stamina regen or etc etc..
Frankly, Combat is overboard, Trapper is average, and Archery is hopeless. I'd honestly rather see the much too neglected Archery into becoming a viable option for PvP, rather than every HR in the game toting the same cookie cutter pathfinding, carefully bullcrapping, DoT hoggin' build.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Sygfried just a note, when considering dr in pvp, you must take into account the massive arp people have these days.
The actual 42/43% dr you get on instigator and destro right now is flushed away by DRI and debuffs. Sentinel is tanky cause aegis grants real mitigation to survive the storm. Destro must perma sprint to tank enough. Outside of sentinel path, gwf now is less survivable than a HR or TR permastealth. Which is dumb.
Instigator must get 25-50% dr from unstoppable to be somehow a hybrid tank-DPS
Destroyer must have DPS on par with SW OR,takedown animation speed increased and prone
Make sprint instant like SW zoom. When shift is pressed, the GWF should rush with no delay and actual immunity frames. Right now it's the only shift mechanic which is dull and not responsive. Make sprint responsive.
Feedback INSTIGATOR:
If you want the path to be viable and to be a tank/ DPS hybrid, the 10% deflect on sprint is far from being enough to call the path a hibryd tank. Destroyer with BF feat have more survivability. Must either increase determination gain on this path through feats OR raise DR from unstoppable up to old 25-50%, which is a good intermediate level between destroyer 15-30% and sentinel aegis 40-80%. Personally, i would prefer if determination gain could be increased by 15/30/45/60/75% through feats. Would make up for a good sinergy with unstoppable recovery and could somehow make unstoppable action heroic feat a bit more appealing.
Either way, current Instigator lacks the survivability to call it a DPS/ tank hybrid, and must be improved more expecially considering the changes and buffs to the other classes. With CW animations being now faster, sprint must be as responsive as the other shift mechanics for other classes or it'll be impossible to even just try to time it. Must activate and rush at max speed instantly exactly like the Warlock zoom.
We are making some fairly large changes to Control Wizard single target powers to improve their PVP presence and improving both of their Presence class features to make them more competitive choices with the Paragon features.
Arcane Presence: Now also passively increases your recharge speed by 5/10/15%.
Chilling Presence: Damage bonus increased to 2% per stack (per rank) and is doubled on Frozen targets.
Chill Strike: This power now activates 40% faster.
Entangling Force: This power now activates 40% faster.
Repel: This power now activates 40% faster.
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now activates 40% faster.
Icy Rays: Targets can now be marked while moving.
Icy Rays: The follow up portion of this power now activates 40% faster.
Sudden Storm: This power now activates 40% faster.
Fanning the Flames: This power now activates 40% faster.
This should reduce how easily most powers are dodged against a Wizard, making them a dangerous ranged threat with more power options to control or damage foes.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Sooo... now most CWs becomes totally uncontrolable and undefeatable by GWFs. Nice "replacement" for over-upped HRs in M4 New CW PvP tactic will be dumb "shift and shoot" as many times as needed, without any risk of being caught.
Feedback, GWF:
- Add MORE controlling. Return proning for Frontline Surge and/or Takedown or increase stun duration
or
- Make Sprint faster, but increase stamina drain (to run same distance with same points, but slightly faster)
Great Weapon Fighter
You’re interested in dealing out the most damage you can.
You prefer big two-handed weapons such as the greatsword or greataxe.
You’re more interested in fighting hard than fighting smart
Make sprint instant like SW zoom. When shift is pressed, the GWF should rush with no delay and actual immunity frames. Right now it's the only shift mechanic which is dull and not responsive. Make sprint responsive.
Just want to clarify something for you bud... The SW also has a delay on their Shadow Slip/Walk/Spring mechanic. It takes 1-2 steps before immunity frames take in effect so the SW can also be CC'd during that small window. I'd love for both our respective mechanics to be responsive!
Comments
There we go again,the usual nerf Cws talk,from the same people who constantly drone about it. You know,if you cry some more,and from what i see you do a lot in many posts,Cws will become even more "OP" ,as you put it,because the devs will dismiss your feedback as trolling. I'm not saying that it is mind you,that would be against forum rules,but it could be "mistaken" as such.
Fortunately, none has. A Fury-berserk that enhances nothing, a runaway feature for a Melee class in metal armour, fortunately the other games don't have this nonsense. D&D hasn't either. You clearly should stop whining, and start giving feedback, as this thread is for feedback.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
you started bringing some outdated trash games into this and asking for cw to kill melee classes 1v3
feedback ? whats the point they will anyway buff cws and and best gwf can hope for is some 672469426898 more stacks that take just 1234978623 hours to stack
and god forbid a cw will get killed in pvp by a gwf , they will change unstoppable to increase cc duration on caster by 100% and reduce damage resistance during it to 0
well you(cw's) cried about unstoppable, now u got unstoppable and sprint, while HAMSTER up unstoppable for pve
with these mechanics in place cw would have to be op or gwf nerfed to the ground for it to be fair between the 2 classes
check leaderboards, top mostly hr and cw, but still cw qq
like sniper crying that a guy with smg is owning him in close combat
Smolder is hardly a threat in pvp.
You need to ignore the idiots or post proof to make them shut up.
As for CWs at the top on leaderboard, lemme straighten this up:
- there are 3/20 on p1, lol
- first one is a CW that only plays premades, only with his guildies, all with rank 10s and BiS from the moment it is available, or duo-queues with some broken build such as reflect GF when that was the fotm.
- second one is some guy that played a billion games this mod
- third one is a random CW that got there by luck or w/e and stopped playing obviously, as he is stuck with same stats for weeks.
There are a few more good CWs in the first 10 pages, but most of them are trash that just got carried by their newly found OPness earlier in the mod, people that could never land a shard before and spent their time playing alts the past modules or PvE.
The GWF requires extremely specific setup (10k power+) and actually hitting an AoE CC (FLS) before nuking down targets. This has proven to be TOO HARD for the most PvP GWFs out there, and pretty much just 2 found their way to P1, and both never pug on GWF, all they do is premade/duo queue with some other OP class.
So if you think this data proves CW>GWF, I dunno what to say.
Smolder can crit. It was reported when the MoF build was being tested, and fixed.
Loboguild is correct. In the earlier build Storm Spell hits were always criticals. If they are no longer, that is a large nerf to the effectiveness of Storm Spell (intended or otherwise).
That would make the paragon path look more mechanical instead of 'pew pew', and the difference between the two paragon paths would be more clear.
i suggested you on past when you were passing time criing nerf on other class to start learn how the game work to make constructive feedback. it not even a matter of interact with other class on pvp or pve, what you are asking is just stupid for the class it self.
1 the cap DR is 80%: when ever you goes higher than that you won't get higher than 80 %
2 any correct stuffed GWF turn around 40% base DR. with new equip you will get an additionnal 4% due to extra armor. so 44%. add 25 % that you are asking and you are at 69%:
3 here start to come your lack of understanding mechanism. actual unstop bring +15 + 30 DR, previous was +25 +50. 69+15 already more than 80 so what the point to goes back to v3 unstop since you already goes higher than 80 with what you are asking
4 sentinel way will have also +20 more. since it already over 80 like that, unstop have only the use of getting some extra HP and immun from control. nice catch.
So your resume is give GWf the highest defense and then we will only have to take the highest DPS path. DEV will not even need to work on 3 path only the highest DPS one will be taken
Nimble Runner should grant 10% deflect chance for 1/2/3/4/5 seconds after sprint.
Vicious Advantage should grant 2/4/6/8/10% crit chance and damage against targets affected by combat advantage.
Fleet Footed duration of speed buff should be raised to 5-8 seconds
Instigator's Vengenance damage buff should be raised to 20 seconds.
also the feat should incrase DR on unstoppable to 20-40%
Reinforced surge should incrase damage of frontline surge by 3/6/9/12/15%
Please specify if your feedback is intended for PvE or PvP...
it's not a feedback, just a troll comment from someone that is passing time crying after each other class than his
i have some doubts about the HR changes within the upcoming class balancing, and to be very specific its about the trapper tree.
i played my HR with the trapper tree, before that i've been nature but it is no more.
my HR is the average joe HR around, nothing fancy, using forest lord set (well maybe this is not the average , more of the underdog) and formorian set, 1 epic arti and 2 blueish, one r7 few more r6 and r5 and allure stone with lesser bonding and 2 r7.
recently i decided to respec to combat , full combat no side feats from the other trees.
the difference is considerably felt. using the same gear/boons/power and at-wills rotation and passive feats.
i strongly urge you to give some more TLC to the trapper tree. some critique i may have are , and sorry for the blunt approach:
the CC effect of the powers is minor, holding foes a little longer (using ancient roots) does not make any difference,
with high end parties it is a waste of DPS, with lower end parties its still better to have another CW to freeze them.
ancient roots feat is crappy as i mentioned before, and the thorned roots is crappy in my opinion, never seen it was doing something noticeable.
biting snare , well this suppose to be the highlight of the tree and its crappy in my opinion again (and this feat is going to get the love ?!?) .
the thing with the stances change - fleet and readied are minor effect not worth, speed is not really high and AP gain doesnt matter too much as HR dailies arent something DPS wise or control wise.
and mentioning control, what is the effect of the snare in cold steel hurricane, it doing nothing which worth spending power points on.
split the sky do the snare, i never notice anything particular about that snare effect, i just think split the sky power good because of the counter attack effect of it.
so either i am the crappy trapper HR around PE or something isnt really working for the trapper tree.
i really liked the nature tree, then it was change to trapper - i thought i can live with it, but now ... its looks like once you go combat you cant go back.
please give some more attention for that not so appealing trapper path.
anyhow thanks for the game, i really like it.
IMO, they should lower the Tier of Wild Medicine to either T1 or T2 so other trees may also access it, but at a lesser efficiency, and then get rid of one of the other feats around T3~T4 and put in a feat that amplifies its effects, but placed at a clever location so the Combat HR must give up something, during its feat point placement, rather than have it being the only path that enjoys the full "might" of the Combat path, and also gains access to key features like stamina regen or etc etc..
Frankly, Combat is overboard, Trapper is average, and Archery is hopeless. I'd honestly rather see the much too neglected Archery into becoming a viable option for PvP, rather than every HR in the game toting the same cookie cutter pathfinding, carefully bullcrapping, DoT hoggin' build.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The actual 42/43% dr you get on instigator and destro right now is flushed away by DRI and debuffs. Sentinel is tanky cause aegis grants real mitigation to survive the storm. Destro must perma sprint to tank enough. Outside of sentinel path, gwf now is less survivable than a HR or TR permastealth. Which is dumb.
Instigator must get 25-50% dr from unstoppable to be somehow a hybrid tank-DPS
Destroyer must have DPS on par with SW OR,takedown animation speed increased and prone
Make sprint instant like SW zoom. When shift is pressed, the GWF should rush with no delay and actual immunity frames. Right now it's the only shift mechanic which is dull and not responsive. Make sprint responsive.
Feedback INSTIGATOR:
If you want the path to be viable and to be a tank/ DPS hybrid, the 10% deflect on sprint is far from being enough to call the path a hibryd tank. Destroyer with BF feat have more survivability. Must either increase determination gain on this path through feats OR raise DR from unstoppable up to old 25-50%, which is a good intermediate level between destroyer 15-30% and sentinel aegis 40-80%. Personally, i would prefer if determination gain could be increased by 15/30/45/60/75% through feats. Would make up for a good sinergy with unstoppable recovery and could somehow make unstoppable action heroic feat a bit more appealing.
Either way, current Instigator lacks the survivability to call it a DPS/ tank hybrid, and must be improved more expecially considering the changes and buffs to the other classes. With CW animations being now faster, sprint must be as responsive as the other shift mechanics for other classes or it'll be impossible to even just try to time it. Must activate and rush at max speed instantly exactly like the Warlock zoom.
Sooo... now most CWs becomes totally uncontrolable and undefeatable by GWFs. Nice "replacement" for over-upped HRs in M4
Feedback, GWF:
- Add MORE controlling. Return proning for Frontline Surge and/or Takedown or increase stun duration
or
- Make Sprint faster, but increase stamina drain (to run same distance with same points, but slightly faster)
Bear. Vodka. Balalaika.
example: disherting strike.
fix plss HR is such an easy class to be strong
Sprinting is not what D&D says about GWF
Remove sprinting.
those D&D excuses always make me laugh
I know right.
****ing D&D Hipsters.
I hate them so much.