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Official Feedback Thread: Other Balance Changes

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    zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    i said in the very post that it's like digging through a hundred videos of varying things just to find a few about solo even if i have "solo" as a search criteria. i am not willing to dig through the entirety of google but i have heard of gwf's soloing dracolich. if you want more then search for them yourself.

    I do not doubt that a live sentinel or a m3 destroyer can. a current destroyer is very unlikely, and if can, will use punishing change+alavanch of steel, thus carrying a considerable time, and a lot out of what is supposed to do a gwf (dps-defender).
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    magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    castle never 1st boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZSOoWrwJ8o

    kinda a pain to search through dozens of videos though......

    found a few about malabog though

    I had the pleasure to play with Gretzko quite a few times. He was a great guy and a very good PvE GWF. He soloed first 3 bosses in CN back when the days GWF had the crazy Deep Gash damage and competed with CWs in CN.

    The PvE meta was not Life Steal back then, and without it it's kinda impossible to kill the last boss.

    I have no doubts Gretzko or Valiant, if still in the game, would easily solo draco.
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    effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    nerf GWF .. with a video from m2.. nerf it..
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    aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    tarftgm wrote: »
    Spellplague... (the no GWF land)

    No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.

    Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.

    there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.

    TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg

    there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN

    Lol I'd much rather take my GWF to SP than my CW.

    My CW slots none of those powers in SP, except Sing, but I use OF far more often, even at the last boss. I rarely use Sing because they did put a target cap on it. Welcome to mod 4!

    I can't think of any T2 mobs that force my GWF out of the red.

    I admit that I haven't run dungeons with my TR since mod 2 or 3, but ITC has a long cool down. I was constantly dodging reds and using ranged powers.
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    midnightfang93midnightfang93 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    i said in the very post that it's like digging through a hundred videos of varying things just to find a few about solo even if i have "solo" as a search criteria. i am not willing to dig through the entirety of google but i have heard of gwf's soloing dracolich. if you want more then search for them yourself.

    If your video was from M4 then you might have a point, but that's from M2...at least get something that shows existing performance, not past performance. Deep Gash is still doing criticals in that video!
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    demonkyuubidemonkyuubi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If your video was from M4 then you might have a point, but that's from M2...at least get something that shows existing performance, not past performance. Deep Gash is still doing criticals in that video!

    i'm not gonna search for hundreds of videos when only 10% of them are actually solo and further dwindled by date/class/etc

    although i feel that the guy i was originally arguing against is exaggerating a lot. many dungeons have walls that prevent advancement until you kill everything which is an extreme deterrance to a perma. not really sure which ones they can actually complete by themselves and not take an eternity.

    i'm not defending perma, but simply against more nerf ideas because it exists >.>
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    jayrad8jayrad8 Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    etopist wrote: »
    Just tested renegade CW on PTR with last Rise of Tiamat Preview Patch NW.35.20141104a.1 and found 2 issues.

    Thank you for reporting these!
    etopist wrote: »
    1. Chillling Advanatge does not increase crit chance when slotted. Tested with at-wills and encounters using ACT (Advanced Combat Tracker) - no crit chance increase.

    Confirmed via my own testing and Bug Report submitted here.
    etopist wrote: »
    2. Chaotic Nexus increases armpen by 800 regardless of armpen I have, not by 30% of my armpen as it's stated in description. I tested with 1500 armpen and 2200 armpen - got the same +800 from Chaotic Nexus.

    Were you using Red Glyphs at the time of testing? That may be why your Arp was increased by 800. I noticed zero effect Chaotic Nexus in my testing, and zero effect from Armor Penetration on Ray of Frost in general.
    Ezra@jayrad8 | M4 CW Class Advocate
    twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
    #BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
    PpkM0MK.png

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    gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    Lol I'd much rather take my GWF to SP than my CW.

    My CW slots none of those powers in SP, except Sing, but I use OF far more often, even at the last boss. I rarely use Sing because they did put a target cap on it. Welcome to mod 4!

    I can't think of any T2 mobs that force my GWF out of the red.

    I admit that I haven't run dungeons with my TR since mod 2 or 3, but ITC has a long cool down. I was constantly dodging reds and using ranged powers.

    I don't see why a GWF should not get an invite for SP. I recently solo ' ed the final boss from over 50% health on my archer ranger and for a GWF it should be even easier.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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    swarfega27swarfega27 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I do not think unfair. I've seen GWF gives 450k critical in bosses who are immune to control.
    CW is a glass cannon now, nothing has improved his defense in this module.

    The problem is in pvp how hard this hits with using just 2 spells. In IWD, in i was hit for 48k ice knife with the CW using self buffs. No external buffs, just his own. This is against players not npcs.

    At the time i was in full PBI gear TR with 35k hp and ~30% DR ~19k+change gs.

    Also funny stuff with icy rays.... I manage to to dodge Icy Rays!!!!..... only to be rooted by it when my dodge completed.

    YAY!
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    aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I don't see why a GWF should not get an invite for SP. I recently solo ' ed the final boss from over 50% health on my archer ranger and for a GWF it should be even easier.

    I agree with you
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    dante126pldante126pl Banned Users Posts: 257 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    dante126pl wrote: »
    Feedback Instigator:

    Nimble Runner - should grant 10% deflect chance for 1/2/3/4/5 seconds after sprint.

    Vicious Advantage - should grant 2/4/6/8/10% crit chance and damage against targets affected by combat advantage.

    Fleet Footed - duration of speed buff should be raised to 5-8 seconds

    Instigator's Vengenance - damage buff should be raised to 20 seconds.
    also the feat should incrase DR on unstoppable to 20-40%

    Reinforced Surge - should incrase damage of frontline surge by 3/6/9/12/15% and decrase cooldown of the skill by 10/20/30/40/50%

    updated
    /10char
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    zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    if this gwf are a destroyer, there's nothing he does that at least two other classes do better (single target). Additionally, any difference that the class has to justify this hypothetical inferiority (in this case, "defender") other 2 classes are MUCH better, and adding even better bonus (INCLUDING DAMAGES).

    instigator is a attempt to make a runner for pvp and sentinel received a nerf (my hibrid intimidation combo lost of 50k or more damage per target for my last test... then i delete the game)
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    skiddyisaboss187skiddyisaboss187 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    hey man i am kinda new to the forum i will say i am a 17.554 gf 18k pvp in pvp i have been finding it really hard to actuly kill a hr even lower gs i dont see the point in use haveing a shield when they can use the move that doges 3times and attacks you from behind. another this that is broken about a hr is that there Dot thing that they can make tick CANOT be Blocked or doged on any other class i think its called bleed or something atles you should make it so you can block it not its just there it does DOT Damage and there is nothing you can do about it was like the cw ice <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> could not block out of it befour it got nurfed! thank you
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    joocycuzzzzzzjoocycuzzzzzz Member Posts: 577 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    Question: did you used Thorn Ward and/or Rain of Arrows on that fight? if not, mind if you can be kind enough to tell us your LS stat + if you have endless consumption and your rotation?

    To answer you and Demonkyuubi: nope, for a GWF in this mod 4, the fight vs Aboleth is really a HARD and LONG to almost impossible to solo it, trust me.

    EDIT: But, again, you all are missing the point (that's why you should ignore P2W players): is really fine and good for you all that a T2 dungeon/CN could be solo'ed???? O_oUu

    It's because you are SwordMaster. Which is the crappier paragon.

    It's ironic that the Original paragon is inferior.

    I have NO problems soloing Aboleth with my GWF, and unlike my main, it doesn't have a single legendary and it's at 17K GS only.
    Beta player

    One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
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    lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I don't see why a GWF should not get an invite for SP. I recently solo ' ed the final boss from over 50% health on my archer ranger and for a GWF it should be even easier.

    It should, DnD-wise. It certainly should. But NWO SM-destr is miles away behnd its DnD kind. And that's exactlly what the gwf community is tryiing to explain to the devs. Without any success.

    Feedback: the NWO SM-Destr has less abilities than any other class
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    paukan007paukan007 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Renegade: Chaos Magic: Fury - Now grants 30% damage and 10% Life Steal (up from 10% and 5% respectively).
    Renegade: Chaos Magic: Nexus - Now grants 30% Armor Penetration and 30% Critical Chance (up from 10%).
    Renegade: Chaos Magic: Growth - Now heals every .5 seconds for 250% of your weapon damage (up from 200% every second).
    Renegade: Chaos Magic: Now correctly applies to allies.

    So, a pack of 5 CWs with x5 chance "PermaBuff" (read "PermaHeal") will be totally undefeatable by any other combination. This is even worse than the situation with over-uppen HRs in M4 (at least they could not heal others with their medicine).

    So, what we have in PVP:
    NO need for DCs (we have CW with "Chaos Magic: Growth" instead, which can heal 21k hp for all allies over 5 secs)
    NO need for GFs (PermaHeal and PermaShift CW - best defender)
    NO need for GWFs (as they are gimps)
    etc.

    Don't you think that a support and DD in one person - it's a bit too much?

    Healing CWs, damage dealing DCs... Lacking only the high flying fishes and deep diving birds...

    Renegade: Chaos Magic: Now correctly applies to allies.

    I hope this is a bug or a joke...




    Feedback CW:

    Just leave they alone since M4.

    or

    Give other classes competitive buffs
    From "Drider" with love.
    Bear. Vodka. Balalaika. :D
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    soriniakovsoriniakov Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    HR Trapper has no control still! Old bugs weren't fixed!

    Ancient Roots feat doesn't affect roots duration (there is no +5 seconds to strong root)

    Biting Snares +60% control bonus doesn't work: actually bonus same as before with +30% (without this feat roots work 2sec, with this feat +30% in m4 currently roots work 3sec, with this feat +60% on preview roots work 3sec again, but 4sec should!)

    Also Biting Snares control duration bonus doesn't affect on stun/daze from Disruptive Shot and Bear Trap - this is a very big problem in pvp!

    new one for Swiftness of the Fox found:

    sometimes cd reduction bonus doesn't work (does nothing with current cds of powers). reloging can solve this issue

    Trapper tree positioned as control hr tree, but all control is totally broken, please fix it!
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    hbreed72hbreed72 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Feedback: GWF and game

    Let's recap a bit: mod 3 you fix deep gash , ok no problem you failed to realize how much dmg those bleeds could do so you decided to take action, i agree it was a good decision, and while you're at it *fix* student of the sword aswell because that was the bigger dmg booster actually, give us this stack system that everyone loves just as much as internal cooldowns on gear bonuses and other things that could be usefull if it wasn't for the ICD. ok we adjust. mod 4 looks like the entire mod was designed against GWF , i mean really you introduced 1 shot wonder Bosses and adds at the same time you tamper with the GWF class mechanic which iis his best survival option and *fix* how intimidation feat is affected by buffs and debuffs giving us the option for this cheesy build that nobody likes because it requires exactly 1 brain cell to utilize it (maybe 2 brain cells in pvp i don't know because i stopped playing that totally broken part of the game you guys refer to as pvp which is supposed to be skill based not feat proc dmg bassed as it is right now). And NOW in mod 5 what do you do? you bring even more feat proc DMG (see TR changes) even though everyone is telling it's not the way it should be , giving us this equivalent of a fake <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> changes to the instigator path which is based once again on what? stacks of course stacks :)))) and at the same time you tone down intimidation because when you *fixed* it you failed to realize what you are doing exactly.... Please don't take me the wrong way i'm not here dev bashing or anything of the sort i understand that it is difficult to make all these changes which should have been dealt with in BETA version of the game and not more than a year after it's release, please take into consideration GWF feedback and suggestions aswell as you do with other classes, this entire testing period you had numerous changes to TR, DC, CW while for GWF we have the OP and that is pretty much the length of it. Players have always given you ideas and feedback on how to improve the game , it is a well known fact that collective intelligence is superior, and i am very very sure that you guys do not spend even half the time playing and testing the game, as your playerbase does.

    Remove this idea of feat proc dmg from the game: nobody likes it , and deep gash and intimidation are a perfect example of this(not even going to mention other classes feat dmg)
    Remove or make it more manageable this stack system you have for the GWF.


    I understand that this marketing technique of yours of doing massive changes to the game forcing people to buy countless retraining tokens and race rerolls etc. is giving you quite a bit of an income but what you are doing with it is pushing paying costumers away by constantly ripping them off with each and every patch, it is unprofessional and you will find yourself at some point having only F2P playerbase because the paying customer are tired of your ... changes.

    Please take this constructive criticism as feedback on your own performance and take into consideration the voices of your players, it cannot hurt you to listen to us we are not here to destroy the game but to make it better. Ask yourself this: how many of us would refer this game to a friend considering you are always changing it for the worse?
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    aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    So, a pack of 5 CWs with x5 chance "PermaBuff" (read "PermaHeal") will be totally undefeatable by any other combination. This is even worse than the situation with over-uppen HRs in M4 (at least they could not heal others with their medicine).

    Lol, you have nothing to worry about. Chaotic Growth will not replace DCs. The heal is unnoticeable. DCs, SWs, GWFs, and HRs all heal more. Thaums and Oppressors will still be the better PvP choice. Thanks for the laugh though!
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    magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    Lol, you have nothing to worry about. Chaotic Growth will not replace DCs. The heal is unnoticeable. DCs, SWs, GWFs, and HRs all heal more. Thaums and Oppressors will still be the better PvP choice. Thanks for the laugh though!

    Chaotic Growth procs for 5-7 times in a fast succession many times. For my CW with 700 inc healing bonus, this means 7x2300 or so in PvE. In PvP half of course.

    However the heal is very random and inconsistent, so IMO it's nearly useless. A 5K heal in PvP is nothing when the other classes burst you for 45K lol.
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    paukan007paukan007 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    Lol, you have nothing to worry about. Chaotic Growth will not replace DCs. The heal is unnoticeable. DCs, SWs, GWFs, and HRs all heal more. Thaums and Oppressors will still be the better PvP choice. Thanks for the laugh though!
    Do you think 21k hp (assuming 800+ weapon damage, tested on Russian "Lurker" test server) for whole party over 5 secs is unnoticeable? :confused: Buffs are triggered separately by each CW, so full party hp restore over 30 secs is more than real. I (GWF) was constantly under one (or even 3 simulteanously) chaos magic buffs while 3 CWs shot each other in PvP area of Icewind Dale (two of them in my party).


    Feedback: CW Chaos magic.

    Add 60-90 sec CD for triggering Chaotic Growth, Nexus etc. applied to all allies, so each buff cannot be triggered for party more than once per this common CD time.

    From "Drider" with love.
    Bear. Vodka. Balalaika. :D
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    hfgtfsdfshfgtfsdfs Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Well TR has an encounter that takes like 20k (ticking) damage over a few seconds, so all they have to do is to do it once, run arround in stealth and then one more time and finish us off with daliy if needed and there is nothing we can do about it.

    BROKEN OP.


    CW Chaos magic is good as it is. No nerf is needed at all. Maybe make all 3 have the same procc-rate and fix the armpen bug.
    ZengiaH@ejziponken
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    paukan007paukan007 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    hfgtfsdfs wrote: »
    Maybe make all 3 have the same procc-rate and fix the armpen bug.
    "Global" proc rate for whole buff area, as i wrote above. Then all shall be good.
    From "Drider" with love.
    Bear. Vodka. Balalaika. :D
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    aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    paukan007 wrote: »
    Do you think 21k hp (assuming 800+ weapon damage, tested on Russian "Lurker" test server) for whole party over 5 secs is unnoticeable?

    Yes. Life steal trivializes Chaotic Growth. Growth is, by far, the least of the CM buffs. I can't imagine any renegade ever complaining that his Chaotic Growth was nerfed, or even taken away entirely. In fact, taking Growth away would be a buff to Renegades, since the other two would proc more often.....so, come to think of it, go ahead and complain about it until they take it away. You'll make us stronger.
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    paukan007paukan007 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    Yes. Life steal trivializes Chaotic Growth. Growth is, by far, the least of the CM buffs. I can't imagine any renegade ever complaining that his Chaotic Growth was nerfed, or even taken away entirely. In fact, taking Growth away would be a buff to Renegades, since the other two would proc more often.....so, come to think of it, go ahead and complain about it until they take it away. You'll make us stronger.

    You forgot that these buffs applies to the entire party. Not only Growth, also Nexus and Fury are too frequently applied to whole party.
    Yes, you're right. Perma-crit +30% for whole party without global CD is even worse than perma-healing :) Say goodbye to balance.
    From "Drider" with love.
    Bear. Vodka. Balalaika. :D
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    magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    Yes. Life steal trivializes Chaotic Growth. Growth is, by far, the least of the CM buffs. I can't imagine any renegade ever complaining that his Chaotic Growth was nerfed, or even taken away entirely. In fact, taking Growth away would be a buff to Renegades, since the other two would proc more often.....so, come to think of it, go ahead and complain about it until they take it away. You'll make us stronger.

    Lemme finish your post by adding "PvE-wise".
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    paukan007paukan007 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Also, there is unfixed bug, allowing to stack all three chaos buffs permanently until you leave location.
    It's very bad idea to make these buffs party-wide until bug will be fixed. One bugged CW will spoil whole fight.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbRoGln9GYk
    From "Drider" with love.
    Bear. Vodka. Balalaika. :D
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    aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    PvE is all that matters. If something is too strong for PvP, then change it for PvP only, as was done with GWF prones, for example.

    You forgot that these buffs applies to the entire party. Not only Growth, also Nexus and Fury are too frequently applied to whole party.
    Yes, you're right. Perma-crit +30% for whole party without global CD is even worse than perma-healing Say goodbye to balance.

    And I've forgotten nothing.

    This is funny. You're complaining about Chaotic Magics weakest buffs. If I were you, I'd worry more about the 30% damage or 30% ArP more than the crit or heals, in PvP. I get 100% crit more often than I get the 30% crit.

    Is that bug happening on preview too?
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    paukan007paukan007 Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    PvE is all that matters. If something is too strong for PvP, then change it for PvP only, as was done with GWF prones, for example.
    Good idea.
    aulduron wrote: »
    This is funny. You're complaining about Chaotic Magics weakest buffs. If I were you, I'd worry more about the 30% damage or 30% ArP more than the crit or heals, in PvP. I get 100% crit more often than I get the 30% crit.
    30% crit + ~45% crit of TR or HR = 75% crit (for much longer time than your 100% crit, and for whole party). TRs and HRs under this buff will clean whole arena in seconds :) So, NERF, NERF and NERF (in PvP). At least by adding long global CD.
    aulduron wrote: »
    Is that bug happening on preview too?
    All I can say - it still exists on Russian preview "Lurker" server.
    From "Drider" with love.
    Bear. Vodka. Balalaika. :D
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