All I see is that they nerfed thaumaturge and boosted renegade because every renegade has respecialized on mod 4.
I mean CW vs HR by nerfing HRs WM since CWs were crying here about it all the time. All other changes to CWs are to be tested and to be evaluated by CWs. I d just prefer opinion of adequate people not those who just cry for HRs nerf.
I agree with you on this. But having CW kill HR or any other class before other class even has a change on atack is wrong. One rotation. I have seen good CWs wipe my 19k HR in one rotation. So at this point all LS and regen does not matter. And GS just means that you can survive more. For sure it is a matter of skill and some luck to dodge CWs first strikes.
I really don't play pvp now too. No my intention is to make CW nerfed. I got all my profound stuff in mod 2/3 with all GWF Roar king so i do know what it is to die a lot.
About your first part - maybe instead of nerfing HR devs should give some survivabilty to CWs while decreasing thier damage? So maybe there should not be only one shot kills possible for CWs? And instead of nerfcry for HR you would suggest fixed to your class?
At the same time HR are left with only one valueble path for pvp. No options in skill or builds.
I had seen great CWs in mod 3 and 2. Now I see way more crybabies.
Well is quite easy to make CW less first strike since it only based in one passive feat the storm last passive eye of the storm that permit to get 100 % critic on the first 6 second. make it proc more random like v3 (even if the active time is the same) and you get less first strike player. but on opposite once that left CW need a big up for defensive stats since the first strike is the whole actual only option for CW to get the slightest hope of winning again an average player. (edit CW also have actually only one possible build).
How ever, before comming asking for nerf for any class try to think twice why is this class is better in this situation. Each class is supposed to have strong and weak point even in pve. When i run with my CW a karru or a CN, yes i hope CW to be the best dps there since it dongeon with lot of mob where AOE are the best way and CW are supposed to be the best in AOE. on opposite in LOL or tuern there is much less mob and here best single target dps is better. GWF and GF are supposed to be more tank and are more here to handle damage so they are not supposed to also be on top dps. ASking for nerf just to be able to make same DPS as CW with GWF in place where situation is in favor of CW what will appens for them when you are on GWF field.
So if your point is more kikimeter then ask dongeon rework not killing classe. ask to make all dongeon like lol where only GWF and GF have enough defense to not be one shot.
CW is actualy on a state where every one play both same build and same spell same passive and not because it's too strong but because it the only lifeable build. change done on renegade path may give an alternate choice on the path but for v4 you can practicaly copy past all CW.
you may think of control but 1 control is not exclusive to CW and 2 control for CW passed a lvl are same as life steal and regen doing for DC. giving it uterly useless
GWF and GF are supposed to be more tank and are more here to handle damage so they are not supposed to also be on top dps. ASking for nerf just to be able to make same DPS as CW with GWF in place where situation is in favor of CW what will appens for them when you are on GWF field.
So if your point is more kikimeter then ask dongeon rework not killing classe. ask to make all dongeon like lol where only GWF and GF have enough defense to not be one shot.
stop this bs please, GWF is not a tank, GWF doesnt have the abilities to get threat nor the on demand DR required for tanking, ive gotten my GWF hit for 70k through 41% dr, tank sets have more dr, but it still isnt enough for a hit like that
GWF is single target/aoe DPS class, at least 2 of the paths, sent might be tank but it would need some serious changes, for example how determination is gained, as a tank build gwf just cant gain determination fast enough, and as destro/insti unstoppable gives about nothing in terms of DR
while cw is control class, its NOT a dps class, if u want dps its HR, SW, GWF and TR
just check usual encounters in a dungeon
DC(dont play one) havent seen them use cc in dungeons except the knockback
HR - 0 CC in dungeons
SW - May have single target prone
TR - may have smoke, dunno how well Dazing works now
CW - 3 or 4 cc abilities
GWF/GF - frontline(though it sucks for damage and has a long cd)
Well is quite easy to make CW less first strike since it only based in one passive feat the storm last passive eye of the storm that permit to get 100 % critic on the first 6 second. make it proc more random like v3 (even if the active time is the same) and you get less first strike player. but on opposite once that left CW need a big up for defensive stats since the first strike is the whole actual only option for CW to get the slightest hope of winning again an average player. (edit CW also have actually only one possible build).
How ever, before comming asking for nerf for any class try to think twice why is this class is better in this situation. Each class is supposed to have strong and weak point even in pve. When i run with my CW a karru or a CN, yes i hope CW to be the best dps there since it dongeon with lot of mob where AOE are the best way and CW are supposed to be the best in AOE. on opposite in LOL or tuern there is much less mob and here best single target dps is better. GWF and GF are supposed to be more tank and are more here to handle damage so they are not supposed to also be on top dps. ASking for nerf just to be able to make same DPS as CW with GWF in place where situation is in favor of CW what will appens for them when you are on GWF field.
So if your point is more kikimeter then ask dongeon rework not killing classe. ask to make all dongeon like lol where only GWF and GF have enough defense to not be one shot.
CW is actualy on a state where every one play both same build and same spell same passive and not because it's too strong but because it the only lifeable build. change done on renegade path may give an alternate choice on the path but for v4 you can practicaly copy past all CW.
you may think of control but 1 control is not exclusive to CW and 2 control for CW passed a lvl are same as life steal and regen doing for DC. giving it uterly useless
Well like I sad before I never asked for CW nerf. look on all of my posts in this thread. I asked to fix IR only. Plus finally make CWs as promised by devs before - control or damage not both. Not saying how to fix or what to fix. So all this crybabies don't even read posts just call for nerf. Problem is that when it comes to CW cry devs listen all the time. Like ridiculous cry about GF shield. When it comes to fix HR as class - nope. Only nerf comes. I played all mod 4 with combat HR and various build for archer and trapper. They ruined HR as class in mod 4. And seem to put in TRs place now in mod 5.
At the same time I do defend my favorite class from perma CW crybabies. So Id just return the advice for you and other CWs. - "before comming asking for nerf for any class try to think twice why is this class is better in this situation" .
Also CWs is king on PvE in mod 4 still. And you are right I do like epic Lol and epic SoT. This is dungeon that need all classes and does not favor stack 4 CWs runs. Like CN or SP does for example. So CWs cry again . As result eLol even got nerfed. The epic freaking dungeon!
Probably to make it spam-able for low crybaby CWs.
oups it was for burkannc
CW is a control AOE specialist class. AOE is less damage than single target but when there is lot of mob inside the sum of damage is higher than individual target power. If i compare my 17 kCW with my 10 k GWF my base DPS of all my encounter AOE spell are under the top individual damage of my GWF single target power. ice conduct and icy terrain are respectivly 560 damage per hit (1/second per target, 6 second for ice conduct 10 for icy terrain) yes you read well there is no K behind the number. eots is 3 k, steal time: near 4 k. and if using AOE spell still give in sum less damage on multi target than using single target damage why on the hell even thinking of using AOE spell. ANd sorry but no GWF is not an AOE class. it's a single target class with fiew lower AOE power that barelly nobody use.
By the way here some math against 5 target. your big GS gwf will hit for 8-10 k/ second in one target while my CW will hit 4 k / second but on 5 target at same time. here i'm ending with twice your dps lvl.
5 target hit most of the time is minimaly what your get in old t2 dongeon. what appens in case wher i have one or two target max. at two target at same time we get nearly same dps. one target is in still better in your case. you're asking to have in end better aoe and better single target damage and at same time have better defense
ANd for your exemple wheer you get shot probably in ELOL or ETUERN. sorry but GWF still is one of the two class able to handle the damage. how ever i admit for gwf case it still require some skill if you doN,t play sentinel (or playing with damage immun)
thedemien
ok sorry it thought you were asking for nerf again. i personaly don't goes to ask nerf other class, i simply stop playing pvp so i do not care anymore class balance as long as i'm able to play correctly.
and CW is still king in old dongeon most of the time i agree (how ever got beaten yesterday by a SW on SOT). but on my view is simply due to the dongeon build with way too much mob (on here new DC will problably push CW and other class on a worm part)
the problem is that the class that is hybrid control/aoe does more damage than pure dps classes, and good single target rotation from CW does enough damage
and dps gwf cant take the damage, dps gwf has some 22~27k hp and can get 1shot even through unstoppable
So your point is that aoe power should do less damage vs 5 mob at sum than a mere one shot. or maybe asking for remove aoe spell from CW. ha but well if you remove aoe spell it call SW not CW but with both less damage and less resist. in both case it even wonderable what is the more laughable. in first case player will play mono target and take mob one by one and you ended with an HR. In second case you ended with a SW. also start goes crying on DC since they will end in V5 with better aoe DPS than CW. after then goes on TR and HR for the mono dps that will be higher than your's and finish with GF that have better defense than your's and SW that have better debuf. like that yo ushould have make the whole turn and make GWF the only playable class
Feedback: Assailing Force The Thauma capstone is still much too weak in PVE. The main source of damage for CWs regardless of build is Storm Spell. So you want to boost SS and SS only with everything you do. You also need Elemental Empowerment for max DPS, but my testing indicates that it's better to dodge Assailing and get Combat Advantage from the Renegade tree even if that means also losing the 5% debuff from Bitter Cold (Oppressor). If you run with another source of CA, you won't need to get into Renegade, but for sole solo purposes, it's better not to feet into the capstone.
So your point is that aoe power should do less damage vs 5 mob at sum than a mere one shot. or maybe asking for remove aoe spell from CW. ha but well if you remove aoe spell it call SW not CW but with both less damage and less resist. in both case it even wonderable what is the more laughable. in first case player will play mono target and take mob one by one and you ended with an HR. In second case you ended with a SW. also start goes crying on DC since they will end in V5 with better aoe DPS than CW. after then goes on TR and HR for the mono dps that will be higher than your's and finish with GF that have better defense than your's and SW that have better debuf. like that yo ushould have make the whole turn and make GWF the only playable class
no. the "correct" would be reduce the cw damage mercilessly, and then gradually build it into a system stacks (arcane?). control should be a parallel attribute like defense.
this **** pile, original cw thing, was worsened and transferred to the destroyer (and now for instigator; the most contraditory and stupid pve stack system ever).
ps: one cw say "mimimi you want only class x viable", is more ofensive than the gentlemancrunch notion of balance"
no. the "correct" would be reduce the cw damage mercilessly,
Really? CW can barely damage proper spec BiS PvPers without reds and pots.
Can you stop your vendetta against this class? You're a PvE player, balance for PvP is way more important. You can get in any dungeons and perform just fine with your GWf am I right?
So why you asking nerfs that would destroy one of my classes for PvP completely? You and a few other PvE dudes are doing one and only one thing only in all your posts:
"OMG PLZ NURF CW DAMAGES!!!!!"
How about NO.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited October 2014
Last week I was running Malabog's Castle in a group with two CWs. One of them was using Singularity during the first mob fights. The other CW asked him to stop using Singularity because it was messing with his DPS.... I think that the Control Wizard is losing its identity in this game and just becoming a sort of D&D sorcerer spamming area damage spells. I would prefer to have back more control and less damage. The arcane striker should be the Warlock.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Last week I was running Malabog's Castle in a group with two CWs. One of them was using Singularity during the first mob fights. The other CW asked him to stop using Singularity because it was messing with his DPS.... I think that the Control Wizard is losing its identity in this game and just becoming a sort of D&D sorcerer spamming area damage spells. I would prefer to have back more control and less damage. The arcane striker should be the Warlock.
They prefer to give them both CC and Damage at the same time.
Really? CW can barely damage proper spec BiS PvPers without reds and pots.
Can you stop your vendetta against this class? You're a PvE player, balance for PvP is way more important. You can get in any dungeons and perform just fine with your GWf am I right?
no, dragons can one shot me (iam a off tank... destroyer tank and thau control have the same level and utility?), i need a lot of stacks to do a inferior damage and your class is supoused to be nerfed in pve. the pve become this madness because:
bring gwf to cw pve level (m2/) create a pvp demand (m2/m3), and now, bring other classes to overvalued "gwf level" (and nerf gwf). for this the pve is broken now. before you needed to shed more difficult versions of the same dungeon. now you need a general nerf (or a REAL rework).
proud, revenge? yes, since the last module i hate cw (not because of the class itself, or the class friends; cw friends for me is rangers.) . but nothing I say is false or unfair (unlike others)
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
They prefer to give them both CC and Damage at the same time.
In mod4 the DEV's made the decision to increase the casting time (to 2 seconds) and lower the target cap of Singularity (making it substantially inferior to Furious Immolation), what you're seeing is the natural outcome of that. I dropped Singularity from my dailies when that happened. If you want a CW to do a decent clump & gather spell for you, bring an MOF with feated Furious Immolation (amazing spell). With a 2 second casting time in a combat situation with a squishy class, this is my hint to use something besides Singularity.
Also, as a control spell, Singularity is very dangerous to the caster, since mobs aren't controlled until they are picked up at the end (witness the various mobs that can charge out of a Singularity). Singularity since it negates many of CW offensive spells, is a good reason to not use it (OF, Shard, Sudden Storm) when other CW's are present. I understand this doesn't help the HR's & GWF's, but as long as the DEV's are going with a 2 seconds casting time, it's off my rotation.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
In mod4 the DEV's made the decision to increase the casting time (to 2 seconds) and lower the target cap of Singularity (making it substantially inferior to Furious Immolation), what you're seeing is the natural outcome of that. I dropped Singularity from my dailies when that happened. If you want a CW to do a decent clump & gather spell for you, bring an MOF with feated Furious Immolation (amazing spell). With a 2 second casting time in a combat situation with a squishy class, this is my hint to use something besides Singularity.
Also, as a control spell, Singularity is very dangerous to the caster, since mobs aren't controlled until they are picked up at the end (witness the various mobs that can charge out of a Singularity). Singularity since it negates many of CW offensive spells, is a good reason to not use it (OF, Shard, Sudden Storm) when other CW's are present. I understand this doesn't help the HR's & GWF's, but as long as the DEV's are going with a 2 seconds casting time, it's off my rotation.
I understand you. I play a PVE Archer HR and know that long casting times make some powers useless (Forest Ghost is a good example, if you try to use it in a difficult situation you'll probably die). But I think that forcing Control wizards to replace control spells with generic area blasts is a design failure.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
no, dragons can one shot me (iam a off tank... destroyer tank and thau control have the same level and utility?), i need a lot of stacks to do a inferior damage and your class is supoused to be nerfed in pve. the pve become this madness because:
bring gwf to cw pve level (m2/) create a pvp demand (m2/m3), and now, bring other classes to overvalued "gwf level" (and nerf gwf). for this the pve is broken now. before you needed to shed more difficult versions of the same dungeon. now you need a general nerf (or a REAL rework).
proud, revenge? yes, since the last module i hate cw (not because of the class itself, or the class friends; cw friends for me is rangers.) . but nothing I say is false or unfair (unlike others)
It is time for GWFs to stop complaining about PvE about other classes or you gonna see this link in each of your posts.
L2Play, get geared, get better skills, and you WILL perform.
Video or images always say more than a thousand crying words.
By the way, the same is true for PvP.
You got to be one of the worst cw trolls in the history of NW.
Nm what is said or what is done you defend cw and troll other classes even when last module was lauched you dident agree cw was totally op before corrections of unmitigated dam.
To compare cw and gwf in pve is redicules, gwf need twice the gear a cw needs to preform in pve and 3 times the gear in pvp.
There are a few extreamly great and extreamly good geared gwfs that can compeat with cws in pve but for each such there is 20 cws.
If the balance is as it should be I leave for others to decide but to claim that gwfs is a l2p isssue to compeat with cws is down right redicules as most of your posts if not all..
- Bad spec, bad gear GWF goes in PvP, gets owned, or gets outDPSed in PvE.
- GWF comes to forum, complains
But, the video says it all. There is no need for me to speak at all.
As for the corrections to unmitigated damage? The stage we are at nowadays shows they were excessive. A CW can no longer win at all vs HRs and GWFs 1vs1 if they are FOTM.
A CW should have a 50% chance to kick GWF or HR <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at equal gear and skill. There are significant issues here.
I don't like procs and unmitigated damage, I like playing with Shard on Tab. Since they took that away from me, I'll take what I have.
It is time for GWFs to stop complaining about PvE about other classes or you gonna see this link in each of your posts.
L2Play, get geared, get better skills, and you WILL perform.
Video or images always say more than a thousand crying words.
By the way, the same is true for PvP.
You're wrong 100%. Every sentence of yours. Create your own GWF and post your own video if you hope to even remotely reach some kind of credibility, despite your case being already quite bad in this respect.
no. the "correct" would be reduce the cw damage mercilessly, and then gradually build it into a system stacks (arcane?). control should be a parallel attribute like defense.
this **** pile, original cw thing, was worsened and transferred to the destroyer (and now for instigator; the most contraditory and stupid pve stack system ever).
ps: one cw say "mimimi you want only class x viable", is more ofensive than the gentlemancrunch notion of balance"
in one sense we already on a system stack. since main source of CW damage are random power. I was really prefered the v3 wizard for pve with way more hand on my power .
Why we are in a stack system. because we need to launch over time spell to have good chance of proc for all our random power. and that mean before it start we need to launch both ice conduct and icy terrain to start it.
One other thing CW is actualy the worst in react time all power nned more than one or even 2 second to launch. mix it with a little lag and it's unplayable because if for example i launch a power but due to lag i launch an other one it stop the first one and in steal time you also get a 4 second before able to use it again.
My GWf is way more fluid to play, way more reactive and way much stronger than was my CW at same gear
By the way you want destroy CW let make a deal. all the change done on CW you are asking will be apply to all your character too. let see if you will be happy just to play with two power only because they randomly proc other power that are your main damage and with 2 second waiting between the moment you launch your power and the moment it activate.
Also the stacking system you refer was the v3 CW and you were also the same to cry about CW damage in dongeon. and all that just for a kikimeter that appear at end of dongeon. Start crying also about SW, DC v5. good pve SW already start overcome CW in damage term, DC will on V5. rogue probably will be first single target DPS
You're wrong 100%. Every sentence of yours. Create your own GWF and post your own video if you hope to even remotely reach some kind of credibility, despite your case being already quite bad in this respect.
on that i will say what i said on french forum on a player that was always cring about CW: Change your build. 27 k life GWF in both pvp and pve are useless. the main way in v3 where 10kgs gwf were able to run in pvp and pve with no difficultie and playing with only one stat up is no more. You need to be more equilibrate in both defense and offense. it won't suck as you think your dps but you will gain much more survivabilty. the guy i'm referring not change is parangon(destoyer) path neitheir make big change. he just pass from 4700 in defense to 3000 and 1500 to 1000 deeviation and make those point upping is life from 28k to 37k.
since it permit him to stay alive it change a lot for him and after passing every post he stop crying about CW and finaly post a good feedback.
GWF specifity is (or strong point) is defense and single target offense
GF is defense and control
CW is control and AOE
DC: debuf and heal
SW: dps and debuf
TR: single target DPS and hidding
HR: single target dps and various range
that all class main strong point but in GWF case many player forget the defensive part and only focus in sum dps part.
if you do actual single target DPS: CW is ranked 4-5 (on part with TR but will change on V5 and before DC,GF) only AOE part make it look like different in dongeon part.
on defense part CW is far behind any class since it'S the only one with no armor and also the only one with 0 defense mechanism.
ANd if you complain about PVP part, 1 first start understand how gift and stat interact each other. and you will start to see why actually CW get harder and harder problem in pvp when you increase GS by fighting equaly geared other class and why on GWF still able to continue. (edit on pvp actually HR is back on dominate all by the way)
You're wrong 100%. Every sentence of yours. Create your own GWF and post your own video if you hope to even remotely reach some kind of credibility, despite your case being already quite bad in this respect.
Nah, you are wrong.
I posted video PROOF. Images do not lie.
You post NOTHING.
GWF PvE and PvP related posts at this point is nothing but QQ. Properly built and played GWFs are great assets.
And since we already talked about PvE, let me post some PvP PROOF, yet again with video.
sorry, sorry, sorry ... to prove the incompetence of my destroyer you show the sentinel using a intimidation? and a intimidation whose a CW was the first to blame? (and get a nerf in this preview?)
dont speak about "facts"... go, five minutes to look for a hiper geared destroyer and back here trying to give me a checkmate about a mechanic discussion.
on that i will say what i said on french forum on a player that was always cring about CW: Change your build. 27 k life GWF in both pvp and pve are useless.
GWF specifity is (or strong point) is defense and single target offense
no, thats GF
GWF is mainly a dps
"The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength, the Great Weapon Fighter is also resilient enough to defend allies in need." ?
Role:
Damage Dealer(Destro and Inst)
Secondary Defender(Sent)
i could post ss(if id bother to take it) where i do 5~6mil dmg in normal sot(over half of total damage done), that doesnt change the fact that GWF needs a buff
Comments
I mean CW vs HR by nerfing HRs WM since CWs were crying here about it all the time. All other changes to CWs are to be tested and to be evaluated by CWs. I d just prefer opinion of adequate people not those who just cry for HRs nerf.
Well is quite easy to make CW less first strike since it only based in one passive feat the storm last passive eye of the storm that permit to get 100 % critic on the first 6 second. make it proc more random like v3 (even if the active time is the same) and you get less first strike player. but on opposite once that left CW need a big up for defensive stats since the first strike is the whole actual only option for CW to get the slightest hope of winning again an average player. (edit CW also have actually only one possible build).
How ever, before comming asking for nerf for any class try to think twice why is this class is better in this situation. Each class is supposed to have strong and weak point even in pve. When i run with my CW a karru or a CN, yes i hope CW to be the best dps there since it dongeon with lot of mob where AOE are the best way and CW are supposed to be the best in AOE. on opposite in LOL or tuern there is much less mob and here best single target dps is better. GWF and GF are supposed to be more tank and are more here to handle damage so they are not supposed to also be on top dps. ASking for nerf just to be able to make same DPS as CW with GWF in place where situation is in favor of CW what will appens for them when you are on GWF field.
So if your point is more kikimeter then ask dongeon rework not killing classe. ask to make all dongeon like lol where only GWF and GF have enough defense to not be one shot.
CW is actualy on a state where every one play both same build and same spell same passive and not because it's too strong but because it the only lifeable build. change done on renegade path may give an alternate choice on the path but for v4 you can practicaly copy past all CW.
you may think of control but 1 control is not exclusive to CW and 2 control for CW passed a lvl are same as life steal and regen doing for DC. giving it uterly useless
Wrong.
In PUG PVP, skill and gear differences causes a big disparity which is why it is not an accurate measure of balance.
stop this bs please, GWF is not a tank, GWF doesnt have the abilities to get threat nor the on demand DR required for tanking, ive gotten my GWF hit for 70k through 41% dr, tank sets have more dr, but it still isnt enough for a hit like that
GWF is single target/aoe DPS class, at least 2 of the paths, sent might be tank but it would need some serious changes, for example how determination is gained, as a tank build gwf just cant gain determination fast enough, and as destro/insti unstoppable gives about nothing in terms of DR
while cw is control class, its NOT a dps class, if u want dps its HR, SW, GWF and TR
just check usual encounters in a dungeon
DC(dont play one) havent seen them use cc in dungeons except the knockback
HR - 0 CC in dungeons
SW - May have single target prone
TR - may have smoke, dunno how well Dazing works now
CW - 3 or 4 cc abilities
GWF/GF - frontline(though it sucks for damage and has a long cd)
Well like I sad before I never asked for CW nerf. look on all of my posts in this thread. I asked to fix IR only. Plus finally make CWs as promised by devs before - control or damage not both. Not saying how to fix or what to fix. So all this crybabies don't even read posts just call for nerf. Problem is that when it comes to CW cry devs listen all the time. Like ridiculous cry about GF shield. When it comes to fix HR as class - nope. Only nerf comes. I played all mod 4 with combat HR and various build for archer and trapper. They ruined HR as class in mod 4. And seem to put in TRs place now in mod 5.
At the same time I do defend my favorite class from perma CW crybabies. So Id just return the advice for you and other CWs. - "before comming asking for nerf for any class try to think twice why is this class is better in this situation" .
Also CWs is king on PvE in mod 4 still. And you are right I do like epic Lol and epic SoT. This is dungeon that need all classes and does not favor stack 4 CWs runs. Like CN or SP does for example. So CWs cry again . As result eLol even got nerfed. The epic freaking dungeon!
Probably to make it spam-able for low crybaby CWs.
CW is a control AOE specialist class. AOE is less damage than single target but when there is lot of mob inside the sum of damage is higher than individual target power. If i compare my 17 kCW with my 10 k GWF my base DPS of all my encounter AOE spell are under the top individual damage of my GWF single target power. ice conduct and icy terrain are respectivly 560 damage per hit (1/second per target, 6 second for ice conduct 10 for icy terrain) yes you read well there is no K behind the number. eots is 3 k, steal time: near 4 k. and if using AOE spell still give in sum less damage on multi target than using single target damage why on the hell even thinking of using AOE spell. ANd sorry but no GWF is not an AOE class. it's a single target class with fiew lower AOE power that barelly nobody use.
By the way here some math against 5 target. your big GS gwf will hit for 8-10 k/ second in one target while my CW will hit 4 k / second but on 5 target at same time. here i'm ending with twice your dps lvl.
5 target hit most of the time is minimaly what your get in old t2 dongeon. what appens in case wher i have one or two target max. at two target at same time we get nearly same dps. one target is in still better in your case. you're asking to have in end better aoe and better single target damage and at same time have better defense
ANd for your exemple wheer you get shot probably in ELOL or ETUERN. sorry but GWF still is one of the two class able to handle the damage. how ever i admit for gwf case it still require some skill if you doN,t play sentinel (or playing with damage immun)
thedemien
ok sorry it thought you were asking for nerf again. i personaly don't goes to ask nerf other class, i simply stop playing pvp so i do not care anymore class balance as long as i'm able to play correctly.
and CW is still king in old dongeon most of the time i agree (how ever got beaten yesterday by a SW on SOT). but on my view is simply due to the dongeon build with way too much mob (on here new DC will problably push CW and other class on a worm part)
and dps gwf cant take the damage, dps gwf has some 22~27k hp and can get 1shot even through unstoppable
The Thauma capstone is still much too weak in PVE. The main source of damage for CWs regardless of build is Storm Spell. So you want to boost SS and SS only with everything you do. You also need Elemental Empowerment for max DPS, but my testing indicates that it's better to dodge Assailing and get Combat Advantage from the Renegade tree even if that means also losing the 5% debuff from Bitter Cold (Oppressor). If you run with another source of CA, you won't need to get into Renegade, but for sole solo purposes, it's better not to feet into the capstone.
That's off.
no. the "correct" would be reduce the cw damage mercilessly, and then gradually build it into a system stacks (arcane?). control should be a parallel attribute like defense.
this **** pile, original cw thing, was worsened and transferred to the destroyer (and now for instigator; the most contraditory and stupid pve stack system ever).
ps: one cw say "mimimi you want only class x viable", is more ofensive than the gentlemancrunch notion of balance"
Really? CW can barely damage proper spec BiS PvPers without reds and pots.
Can you stop your vendetta against this class? You're a PvE player, balance for PvP is way more important. You can get in any dungeons and perform just fine with your GWf am I right?
So why you asking nerfs that would destroy one of my classes for PvP completely? You and a few other PvE dudes are doing one and only one thing only in all your posts:
"OMG PLZ NURF CW DAMAGES!!!!!"
How about NO.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
They prefer to give them both CC and Damage at the same time.
**** That ****.
no, dragons can one shot me (iam a off tank... destroyer tank and thau control have the same level and utility?), i need a lot of stacks to do a inferior damage and your class is supoused to be nerfed in pve. the pve become this madness because:
bring gwf to cw pve level (m2/) create a pvp demand (m2/m3), and now, bring other classes to overvalued "gwf level" (and nerf gwf). for this the pve is broken now. before you needed to shed more difficult versions of the same dungeon. now you need a general nerf (or a REAL rework).
proud, revenge? yes, since the last module i hate cw (not because of the class itself, or the class friends; cw friends for me is rangers.) . but nothing I say is false or unfair (unlike others)
In mod4 the DEV's made the decision to increase the casting time (to 2 seconds) and lower the target cap of Singularity (making it substantially inferior to Furious Immolation), what you're seeing is the natural outcome of that. I dropped Singularity from my dailies when that happened. If you want a CW to do a decent clump & gather spell for you, bring an MOF with feated Furious Immolation (amazing spell). With a 2 second casting time in a combat situation with a squishy class, this is my hint to use something besides Singularity.
Also, as a control spell, Singularity is very dangerous to the caster, since mobs aren't controlled until they are picked up at the end (witness the various mobs that can charge out of a Singularity). Singularity since it negates many of CW offensive spells, is a good reason to not use it (OF, Shard, Sudden Storm) when other CW's are present. I understand this doesn't help the HR's & GWF's, but as long as the DEV's are going with a 2 seconds casting time, it's off my rotation.
I understand you. I play a PVE Archer HR and know that long casting times make some powers useless (Forest Ghost is a good example, if you try to use it in a difficult situation you'll probably die). But I think that forcing Control wizards to replace control spells with generic area blasts is a design failure.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
And it doesn't cancel damage and effect from other spells while active, that's what makes it better than singularity 90% of the time .
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
WHAT?????
This is how "bad" GWF is in PvE: http://youtu.be/j61ZR6vZI1U
GET BETTER OR SHUT UP.
It is time for GWFs to stop complaining about PvE about other classes or you gonna see this link in each of your posts.
L2Play, get geared, get better skills, and you WILL perform.
Video or images always say more than a thousand crying words.
By the way, the same is true for PvP.
You got to be one of the worst cw trolls in the history of NW.
Nm what is said or what is done you defend cw and troll other classes even when last module was lauched you dident agree cw was totally op before corrections of unmitigated dam.
To compare cw and gwf in pve is redicules, gwf need twice the gear a cw needs to preform in pve and 3 times the gear in pvp.
There are a few extreamly great and extreamly good geared gwfs that can compeat with cws in pve but for each such there is 20 cws.
If the balance is as it should be I leave for others to decide but to claim that gwfs is a l2p isssue to compeat with cws is down right redicules as most of your posts if not all..
- Bad spec, bad gear GWF goes in PvP, gets owned, or gets outDPSed in PvE.
- GWF comes to forum, complains
But, the video says it all. There is no need for me to speak at all.
As for the corrections to unmitigated damage? The stage we are at nowadays shows they were excessive. A CW can no longer win at all vs HRs and GWFs 1vs1 if they are FOTM.
A CW should have a 50% chance to kick GWF or HR <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at equal gear and skill. There are significant issues here.
I don't like procs and unmitigated damage, I like playing with Shard on Tab. Since they took that away from me, I'll take what I have.
You're wrong 100%. Every sentence of yours. Create your own GWF and post your own video if you hope to even remotely reach some kind of credibility, despite your case being already quite bad in this respect.
in one sense we already on a system stack. since main source of CW damage are random power. I was really prefered the v3 wizard for pve with way more hand on my power .
Why we are in a stack system. because we need to launch over time spell to have good chance of proc for all our random power. and that mean before it start we need to launch both ice conduct and icy terrain to start it.
One other thing CW is actualy the worst in react time all power nned more than one or even 2 second to launch. mix it with a little lag and it's unplayable because if for example i launch a power but due to lag i launch an other one it stop the first one and in steal time you also get a 4 second before able to use it again.
My GWf is way more fluid to play, way more reactive and way much stronger than was my CW at same gear
By the way you want destroy CW let make a deal. all the change done on CW you are asking will be apply to all your character too. let see if you will be happy just to play with two power only because they randomly proc other power that are your main damage and with 2 second waiting between the moment you launch your power and the moment it activate.
Also the stacking system you refer was the v3 CW and you were also the same to cry about CW damage in dongeon. and all that just for a kikimeter that appear at end of dongeon. Start crying also about SW, DC v5. good pve SW already start overcome CW in damage term, DC will on V5. rogue probably will be first single target DPS
on that i will say what i said on french forum on a player that was always cring about CW: Change your build. 27 k life GWF in both pvp and pve are useless. the main way in v3 where 10kgs gwf were able to run in pvp and pve with no difficultie and playing with only one stat up is no more. You need to be more equilibrate in both defense and offense. it won't suck as you think your dps but you will gain much more survivabilty. the guy i'm referring not change is parangon(destoyer) path neitheir make big change. he just pass from 4700 in defense to 3000 and 1500 to 1000 deeviation and make those point upping is life from 28k to 37k.
since it permit him to stay alive it change a lot for him and after passing every post he stop crying about CW and finaly post a good feedback.
GWF specifity is (or strong point) is defense and single target offense
GF is defense and control
CW is control and AOE
DC: debuf and heal
SW: dps and debuf
TR: single target DPS and hidding
HR: single target dps and various range
that all class main strong point but in GWF case many player forget the defensive part and only focus in sum dps part.
if you do actual single target DPS: CW is ranked 4-5 (on part with TR but will change on V5 and before DC,GF) only AOE part make it look like different in dongeon part.
on defense part CW is far behind any class since it'S the only one with no armor and also the only one with 0 defense mechanism.
ANd if you complain about PVP part, 1 first start understand how gift and stat interact each other. and you will start to see why actually CW get harder and harder problem in pvp when you increase GS by fighting equaly geared other class and why on GWF still able to continue. (edit on pvp actually HR is back on dominate all by the way)
Nah, you are wrong.
I posted video PROOF. Images do not lie.
You post NOTHING.
GWF PvE and PvP related posts at this point is nothing but QQ. Properly built and played GWFs are great assets.
And since we already talked about PvE, let me post some PvP PROOF, yet again with video.
http://www.twitch.tv/dersidius/c/5292158
See 12:00+ first, then 13:46 (31K hit followed by 20K), 20K non crit at 18:40, and there is a 46230 crit at 14:55!
Get good, or pretty much shut up.
dont speak about "facts"... go, five minutes to look for a hiper geared destroyer and back here trying to give me a checkmate about a mechanic discussion.
now i know u have no idea about a GWF
27k hp is a lot for DPS GWF
if u dont believe me ...
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?759721-Lazalia-s-High-Crit-build-for-PvE-GWF-Destroyer-Mod-4&p=9166391&viewfull=1#post9166391 21.5k hp i have much more since i pug a lot and often am the only melee
i have toughness + GWF lvl94 artifact + PvP artifact lvl 74 to get a bit over 26k hp
GWF CANT afford to waste points in HP since we need every last point in DPS to do at least some damage
i could post ss where i do 5~6mil dmg in normal sot(over half of total damage done), that doesnt change the fact that GWF needs a buff
no, thats GF
GWF is mainly a dps
"The Great Weapon Fighter is an unstoppable force of damage and steel, skilled in using the weight of a greatsword to dispatch those that stand in the way. The epitome of strength, the Great Weapon Fighter is also resilient enough to defend allies in need." ?
Role:
Damage Dealer(Destro and Inst)
Secondary Defender(Sent)
SW at 8,243mil
GWF at 5,579mil
i could post ss(if id bother to take it) where i do 5~6mil dmg in normal sot(over half of total damage done), that doesnt change the fact that GWF needs a buff
what did u tryed to prove its just broken intimidation build lol.
you know nothing about GWF just give up on trying to find false and pointless arguments.
and pandapaul did show that even "broken" intimidation does same dps as CW
GWF doing that dmg is broken while CW doing same dmg AND providing a ton of cc is not