Okay but there's this thing that I don't understand about the nerf in Magic Missiles...
Currently, Magic Missiles is the best choice for single-target damage, since it stacks Arcane Mastery and has a good performance. For AoE situations, Chilling Cloud is better.
But, in any situation, Chilling Cloud is currently better for Thaumaturge and Oppressor due to Chill stacking benefits, debuffs and Frozen Power Transfer, and here is my doubt. Why was Magic Missiles nerfed and Chilling Cloud buffed?
This nerf is even more strange when you think about the other Paragon Path's at-wills, because they have more interesting mechanics in comparison to Magic Missiles and deal even more damage on single-target damage after this nerf, making the Magic Missiles not being the best choice for any situation.
AFAIK only the last 2 hits of Magic Missiles weren't properly benefiting of Armor Penetration, which is 24% less damage for these hits, but the OVERALL damage of this power was reduced by 33%; it's not only 9% overflowed nerf, but it also decreases the damage of the other 3 hits that weren't buffed.
Is there any reason for this nerf that I didn't consider? Why was Magic Missiles nerfed if other powers can be used replacing it with almost no difference?
(´･ ω ･`)
0
charkanramonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 51Arc User
edited July 2014
Suggestion:
I still think the master slot should be reworked. It should work as follows:
- It enables the use of an energy bar that recharges slowly passively.
- When activated all skills change dramatically becoming stronger in return doubles the cast time in using them.
- The secret is to be patient and use the power at the right time.
- Loss of energy bar can not be stopped at the end starts charging again.
Feedback:
Modify the following feats
Controlling Action: Gain 1/2/3/4/5% of your total Action Point when using powers on a controlled target. (10 second cooldown)
Fight On: Encounter fixed cooldowns reduced by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Battlewise: Increases your damage by 1/2/3% per Arcane Mastery stack (5 stacks = +30%)
Wizard's Wrath: Armor penetration bonus by 3/6/9%
Blighting Power: Chill reduces the target deflection by 1/2/3% per stack
Lightning Teleport: Consumption of stamina to teleport reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%
Arcane Enhancement: Arcane Mastery stack lasts longer 0.5/1.5/2.5 seconds
Learned Spellcaster: Encounter cast time reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%
Prestidigitation: You and your allies gain 2/4/6% increased Stat Ratings (does not stack)
Focused Wizardry: Chance to ignore immunity to control by 3/6/9%
Read the Rules. Do not discuss moderation. If you took less time ranting and more time being observant, you'd see we moved over 200 posts to the Discussion thread, where they belong. You should read the Sticky too. We never "delete" anything, all records of post moved and edits have permanent records. ~Zeb
What was giving us a little chance in live server (a really little) was armor pen feat and debuf spell (and that in thauma or renegade way). Without that buff dammage are already cut by 3 or even 4 on live server. Since they practicaly taking it all + reducing damage around 15 to 30 % on single target we are doing 30-40% of damage now.
let take a fight in live server between a GF or GWF with 80% dr (yes sentinel can goes to more than 80% with inflexible). 1 if you have entrengling force it do 0 damage against control immun target). let make count on thauma way with a classic and consider the best for the CW (spell not block by all instant control encounter on GF or GWF). default ice knife, ray of enfeeblisment in tab, ice conduct, let say steal time and chill strike for damage. base damage on my character in same order 12K,6K, 4K,4K,6K. alos lvl 9 spell plague enchant
with 15% armor pen and the fact that arcane spell reduce armor 10% more (t4 feat of thauma) you get in this order.
(ice knife usable only once)
1 ice conduct: 4k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.2(tenacity))= 1.12 K
2 ray : 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.15+0.1)*(1-0.2 )*(1.15+1.15)= 2.8 k
3 second ray: (most of time i see that both in live and test server second ray do 0 damage): 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.3+0.15)*(1.45)=5.22K
4 ice knife: 12K *(1-0.8+0.3+0.15)*(1-0.2)*1.45=10.44K
5 and 6 give an extra summ of 8.7. mean your doing at all 28k dammage mean to shot a GF and GWF with 80 DR you need if he let you strike 2 full roll of spell to shot him (40K life) 30 second.. here that the best without blocking or dodging or be controled or interrupt even once + ice knife charged (practicaly 50% damage here) mean without ice knife = 18k roll
now let see in test server with same spell.
ice knife do 11k base, ray: 4K, ice conduct:3K, steal time 6K, and chill strike:4k let also say that with the actual statment assaillant will proc once per 10 second (here is best since it's the minimal time that it can proc)
same fight.
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 second ray.4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 2.7k
4 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 7.37 K
5 the rest: 6.7K damage and add 1 assaillant for 4 k: =17.61 k + 4 k = 21k at all. and 14K without ice knife: mean 45 second to kill without any dodge or anything nore any life back.
with new shield slotted in tab
taking same other spell just replace chill strike with ray (couting assaillant proc same once per roll)
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 6.5 K
4 steal time: 6k*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15:3.5K
total 12.5k with ice knife +4k from assaillant: 16.5k without ice knife: 10K dammage mean 1 min to kill a passive player
know let see the other side. since def haven't change from live server and test server without shield it pretty the same.
1 all GF and GWF have at least 1 feat that provide 0.1 DR reduce+ let say a terror enchant lvl 9 and same 15% Dr ignore
A wizard can have at best 30% dr. mean only the first shot will have 5% dr left rest is 100% damage* 0.8 for tenacity
with a mere 6K medium feat damage it give
first shot: 6K *(1-0.05)*(1-0.8):4.56K
rest :4.8k
daily : 12k = 9.6
total: 23.76 K (as you can see i do not count any boost dammage to consider a fight against a GF. against GWF you can easely up that by 1.25%). with a 25K or 30K PV CW; your are near or already dead if even one crit (since we have 0 deflect value)
with shield and against a player that do not strike with at will to reduce damage it give
4.56*(1-0.8):0.912k
4.8*(1-0.5):2.4k
4.8*(1-0.25):3.6k
9.6*(1-0.25):7.2k
=14k and since shield will not reup after first roll, second role also do 3.6k each mean 10.8k . mean we are dead in 2 roll of encounter.
And since our at will do less damage we canno't hope anything from there too.
PS in GF case with there 30 second up shield we will be dead before we can control them with shield down and since we don't have any control immun we are already dead before doing any spell.
With on live server we already have hard time with a ratio of 20-25 second to kill vs 15 second for other due to control immun.
now on previous server we need twice the time we needed in live server with nothing else change for control or anything else.
Even with the 50% last shield lvl we were at disavatage but not an unpassable one
Edit:
in all that" i took each time the best case for CW but practically always min case for opponent
CW players have been giving feedbacks for over a month now and didn't get a single answer from the devs.
Isn't the whole point of this thread to create a form of comunication between players and devs about how to fix the class and make it still viable in pve and pvp?
It certainly doesen't feel like it at all.
You guys keep ignoring us and in less than a month the new module goes live.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche should do more damage when slotted on tab. If necessary, this can be bonus damage against players only to prevent damage from rising too much in PvE environments. In PvP, it is usually used against a single target at a time, and its current damage output is quite pitiful.
CW single-target damage skills need to be brought up a little. These are mostly not used for PvE anyway. While it's understandable if you want to give a more distinct feel to CWs being high control, lower on damage, particularly with Scourge Warlocks in play, the current damage levels are a little too low, especially with Assailing Force fixed and feats and utility powers like Eye of the Storm also toned down.
The Shield boost is nice, but it mostly remains a bit of a trap option, especially after being pared down. Using it will just further cut damage and control, which may be a necessary trade-off, but it also means a double whammy in terms of damage reduction when put on top of the existing reductions to single-target power damage.
Exactly.
Give us something to work with first and then we can talk about the Feat fixes for the different trees.
I still think the master slot should be reworked. It should work as follows:
- It enables the use of an energy bar that recharges slowly passively.
- When activated all skills change dramatically becoming stronger in return doubles the cast time in using them.
- The secret is to be patient and use the power at the right time.
- Loss of energy bar can not be stopped at the end starts charging again.
No. Leave Mastery alone.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Critical Power: *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Switch Energy Recovery with the new Critical Power in the Renegade tree (after these reworks).
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage on TAB (like Icy Rays).
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
I just wanted to say that I agree with these changes.
/ ZengiaH PvP CW from Disrespect (former Enemy Team)
Meldan i just have to correct you, upping damage will not change a thing, you can double damage for CW it will only lead to actual situation a mere glass canon. it s the whole mechanic class that not feat with PVP.
Before they renerf shield and cut by half damage from assaillant. thauma way was near a good PVP class and only little adjust were needed for this way even if the build was a lonely config build, it was existing.
For oppressor way, they should have at least one CC that can break CC immun and have other control that don t take many second to activate
And for renegade should have a real party buff debuf tree that can really help party.
Also for all class we should have at least some spell that not take this long to be launch so we have a way to avoid interrupt in some way. we also need a real mechanism like other class to avoid control for some period of time since we have no way to escape or avoid fight.
But all that have been said so many time that is again useless post.
EDIT: Most of the CW community have left, fiew still remain and none of them want to continue test on the actual statment of CW, we don t care if there is bug or not since we don t want to play this class anymore on V4. we are only 4 or 5 CW player that continue trying to have a playable class, but our energy is limited
0
lcwwpyjhjsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
CW is doing fine if you're at thaum feat. You can't just win all. I don't want anymore buff as in later everyone QQ about us at forum and later on we share the same fate as GWF.
We're not fine, Thaum is dependent on an ICD that devs can and have changed at a whim. I'd prefer to have my powers do the damage than to rely on some feat with an ICD that may or not proc.
We are not the Welfare Class, we want our own powers to do damage and not to be reliant on some craptactular feat that pacifies 1/3 of all CW's.
Have you guys seen the new CONTROL FIGHTERS? Awesome control ability, I'm a bit jealous.
0
lcwwpyjhjsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Basiclly what ashsher asking for this is unrealistic :
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
-This is far overpowered compare to any class feat as mostly we have 5% increase from int, 5% increase from str or 6% encounter power etc. Your suggestion makes it become 30% single and 60% extra at-will.
CW is doing fine if you're at thaum feat. You can't just win all. I don't want anymore buff as in later everyone QQ about us at forum and later on we share the same fate as GWF.
If the only class CW can kill is a perma TR in 1v1 (not 2v2 or 3v3), it's not acceptable.
I have tested, from my point of view, all possible builds so far (especially the Thaums, since it's the last straw PvP CWs could hold on). If you have a certain build + setup (encounters, stats, etc.) in mind that I might've left out, feel free to send me a pm, and I'll be happy to test it against equally geared and skilled players of other classes. If you believe that my (personal) skills might be lacking, I'll be happy to set you up with other experienced PvP players of any class, so you can test it for its maximum potential.
Basiclly what ashsher asking for this is unrealistic :
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
-This is far overpowered compare to any class feat as mostly we have 5% increase from int, 5% increase from str or 6% encounter power etc. Your suggestion makes it become 30% single and 60% extra at-will.
The other suggestion is fine.
Magic Missile damage got cut by ~50% damage (compared to what it is on live). Getting it back to what it is on live now would mean a 100% increase. It's basic math. So having a 60% increase on it would mean that it would still be nerfed compared to live.
Easier explanation: 50% nerf = cut the damage in half. 100% buff = twice the damage. Cutting the damage by 50% and then buffing it by 60% means that it's still nerfed by 20% from what it was before.
Same with Encounters. Our single target encounters are already weak and the damage got nerfed even more. Now, why did I say At-Wills and not single target? Because they should not affect dailies. If you put your points into Learned Spellcaster, you miss out on ~6.5% more damage for everything, including dailies. +6.5% on base damage and crits. Why 6.5? Because it is how it works. Quite easy to determine when you parse a run with ACT.
As for myself, I would rather take learned Spellcaster and have 6.5% bonus damage on ALL my spells and crits than 60% more damage on At-Wills that are already weak as hell. They don't even tickle a GF or HR. They out-regen them easily. Again, I want to see some feedback from the devs before I make the effort to post all my ACT stuff and explain it.
Trust me, 60% on At-Wills and Encounters would not be overpowered compared to LS on everything. Unless of course you have a human, then you can take both if you say that you don't want the damage bonuses from Chill and that you don't want the +2 on stats. I don't think that many people would go for this feat. It is at the end of the chain and you gotta ask yourself: if you're a Renegade, it would bring you close to where you are now. If you're a Thaum/Oppressor, you would prefer Chill. Since it's a single target bonus, it would not affect Shard on TAB or any other strong encounter that has OP potential.
lcwwpyjhjsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
For GF : shield on Tab > ice terrain (and always stay in or between it) > icy ray > entangling
For GWF : Ray > chill strike > icy ray > entangling / or shield on tab. Basically now you can always keep a gap with gwf without their prone.
For HR : GF setup if melee (and most likely they are melee, just dodge boar) However, we most likely lose due to their fast hp regen / never-ending kite.
For TR : This would be the easiest. GPF enchant. Shield on tab > ice terrain > steal time (use for canceling only, proc assailing and slow, and tell us where they are. but u alrdy know that) > icy ray.
For DC : never tested it.
You could try my suggestion. With severe reaction feat of course.
And use orb imposition passive.
1 small reminder*
This game is about teamplay. In domi we dont go facetank gwf nor gf, we hide behind our teammate. If we are to complain about 1v1, i bet DC would even complain more.
+edit : Our post here will all be moved by tomorrow by moderator.
This! And do you know why there are way more non-CWs posting in this thread, thinking they know anything about CW? Because there are no PvP CWs left! And Devs, you may have noticed that it's almost only PvPers posting here forcing nerfs. You know why? Neverwinter is a griefing community! Even though our class is already dead in PvP, there are a bunch of GWFs, HRs, TRs posting in this thread, asking for further nerfs, even though they have never played a CW. Leavers in PvP, people being votekicked in PvE, so they don't get the loot, ... not on occasion, but all the time!
Just look at the numbers! You don't need our feedback for that.
I'm a very big DnD fan, but I'm also a "Mage" fan. I don't want to play another class! You are literally forcing me out of this game. I like the new content in M4, I like the NW community in my guild, but you're literally saying, "You are already weak as hell, and we've been nerfing you for a year now! Don't you see that we don't want CWs to PvP in this game? Should we just globally deactivate the PvP Queue for CWs, so that it finally reaches your brain? We don't want you in Neverwinter!"
Confirm with this post, no one want to take CW in his team in pvp becouse it is shoot in his own knee
- we already have no single target DMG, and after this all nerfs our DMG will disappear completely, i can't understand why casting time and single target is going down. Have you ever try to catch PTR playing CW? this is maddnes our casting time is so long that before i use skill he is on the other side of point ( i only disagree with you that we can kill PTR, maby with good crit you can hit him hard but it is still great luck or "very talanted" perma tr if you kill him)
- we have got the worst survivability between whole classes, we are death meet which is selected to kill in first becouse we can be death in few good skils.
-our only chance to survive is all time running and dont let your enemy to get close to you so we can't hold points for our team, becouse "tanking" isnt role of this class, maby we can play with tanky dc on point and try to perma freeze him and thats all
-what else...and first of all- we can't good controll our enemy becouse time of our stuns is maby 0,3-0,5s when GWF stuns last 2x 3s, not to mention about HRs, they are masters of control peoples in pvp, anyway most of this classes have theirs immunity and our control is ****.
so what? no power, no survivability, no control no special atack, cw is nothing, for a long time from module 2.5 cw is "whipping boy", and i can see that you want to continue this tradition.
0
lcwwpyjhjsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What you are aiming is magic missile. Lets look at the larger margin.
At will : ray of frost
encounter single : entangling, ray of enfee, icy ray, chill strike & repel
by the feat alone, all the damage nerf done to them would be revert back same as live, and some even better. Then whats the point of designer nerfing all these skill?
Look at the bright side, we have thaum assailing. which do 4-5k dmg every 5sec unmigratable. And yes this means everyone would be going for thaum cw pvp. This is why i said your other suggestion is fine/good to bring viable for renegade.
1 small reminder*
This game is about teamplay. In domi we dont go facetank gwf nor gf, we hide behind our teammate. If we are to complain about 1v1, i bet DC would even complain more.
The current DC on preview can tank 2 - 3 players infinitely. He might not be able to kill, but if someone willingly chooses "Devoted Cleric", one might not expect to have chosen a killing machine.
When I started playing the game, we had a choice (and all 3 choices were viable!):
- Oppressor for control.
- Thaumaturge for pure damage.
- Renegade for burst/crit damage (low damage on non-crits).
Now we don't have a choice anymore.
As for hiding behind a teammate and teamplay. How is an HR not better in this situation? He doesn't need to hide, deals ridiculous damage, is tanky as hell and controls pretty well. How is our Icy Terrain better than a Thorn Ward on a node? Or GWF. Or even just a perma TR to make sure the point stays contested. Or the new GF. Any other class is tankier, deals more damage and has better controls (maybe not in terms of pure control in 1v1 if specced into full Oppressor). What is our role then? PvE?
Since Critical Power is a paragon-independent feat and EotS is paragon-specific, I modified my suggestion post. Also, I forgot to add the change for MoF.
Changes:
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Feedback Assailing force :
I don't like assailant. It is a big part of the damage that we are no longer able to do otherwise. It works pretty well, outside of pvp considerations. But what bothers me is : this is damage out of nowhere, without skill. It would be nice to have a feat that effectively reward the way we play, with a real boost to damage, rather than damage falling from the sky, there are already storm spell for that.
Feedback CC immunity :
We need some sort of CC immunity. Our worst enemies may be others CW because we will be the easiest class to control. There is not a single feat that gives us CC immunity when, in my opinion, we should be able to resist some powers that we are able to launch.
Chaotic neutral - so i can do whatever the hell i want
Storm Spell does seem to receive a damage boost from the feat Focused Wizardry.
Feedback: Focused Wizardry
After testing this feat I've concluded that it lacks any real appeal. Several of the single target spells that CW's use are control oriented, not damage oriented (Ray of Frost, Repel, Entangling Force). Boosting the damage of those spells is inconsequential since they don't affect the overall damage output of a CW when boosted by Focused Wizardry. Other single target spells meant for damage do not receive any boost from Focused Wizardry (Ray of Enfeeblement and Storm Spell). The only spells that actually get a decent benefit from this feat are Magic Missile, Chill Strike (only when not tabbed), Icy Rays, and Ice Knife. If given a choice of boosting those four spells by 6% or boosting all outgoing damage by 3.5% (which is about what three points spent in Learned Spellcaster gives) everyone will choose the across the board 3.5% boost. This needs to be higher to be a competitive option.
As has been mentioned over and over in this thread: Single target damage by CW's has never been out of line with other classes. CW's have always done the least single-target damage of all of the DPS classes. That nerfs were applied to single-target spells have taken CW's from "less single-target damage" to "completely non-competitive single-target damage." This feat is an opportunity for those who want to PvP to have some measure of single-target damage back. But, as is, it's not useful.
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
this is 100% accurate and i completely agree with these changes. amazing world mel
Why not simply give shield CC immun when he is not unstable (tab or not tab). not that i like it too much (because we will have no option but to get shield in pvp) but at least it will do that people have to strike us first to drop the shield before being able to control us
Mathematically, this feat sort of works as advertised. However, in practice it is far less effective than someone reading the description would be led to believe.
For example: If a spell has a 15 second cooldown and I place 5 points in Fight on, the new cooldown will be 15/(1+.1)=13.6 seconds. It is reduced by 9.3%.
However, now let's say I have 3500 recovery (which equates to 24% cooldown reduction), 24 INT, and 18 Wisdom. Without Fight On, the cooldown on the same feat will be (15/(1+.24+.14+.08)) = 10.2 seconds. With 5 points in Fight On the cooldown time will be (15/(1+.1+.24+.14+.08)) = 9.6 seconds.
The reduction from 10.2 seconds to 9.6 seconds is only a (0.6/10.2) = 5.8% reduction in cooldown time.
The end result of this is that the way cooldowns are calculated as Recovery, Intelligence, and Wisdom go up, the usefulness of this feat goes down. As your character improves you get less and less benefit from this feat because of how it is calculated.
I would recommend re-working this feat so that the cooldown reduction is applied to the base cooldowns, not as part of the reduction that is lumped in with Recovery, Intelligence, and Wisdom.
Cooldown time = (Base cooldown*(1-ranks in Fight On/50))/(1+Recovery+Intelligence+Wisdom+other bonuses)
That way a player would get 10% knocked off the cooldown time regardless of other reductions
Mathematically, this feat sort of works as advertised. However, in practice it is far less effective than someone reading the description would be led to believe.
For example: If a spell has a 15 second cooldown and I place 5 points in Fight on, the new cooldown will be 15/(1+.1)=13.6 seconds. It is reduced by 9.3%.
However, now let's say I have 3500 recovery (which equates to 24% cooldown reduction), 24 INT, and 18 Wisdom. Without Fight On, the cooldown on the same feat will be (15/(1+.24+.14+.08)) = 10.2 seconds. With 5 points in Fight On the cooldown time will be (15/(1+.1+.24+.14+.08)) = 9.6 seconds.
The reduction from 10.2 seconds to 9.6 seconds is only a (0.6/10.2) = 5.8% reduction in cooldown time.
The end result of this is that the way cooldowns are calculated as Recovery, Intelligence, and Wisdom go up, the usefulness of this feat goes down. As your character improves you get less and less benefit from this feat because of how it is calculated.
I would recommend re-working this feat so that the cooldown reduction is applied to the base cooldowns, not as part of the reduction that is lumped in with Recovery, Intelligence, and Wisdom.
Cooldown time = (Base cooldown*(1-ranks in Fight On/50))/(1+Recovery+Intelligence+Wisdom+other bonuses)
That way a player would get 10% knocked off the cooldown time regardless of other reductions
Replace shard oteA with the "icewind dale Arcanist" power "meteor Swarm/Storm" not sure which it's called. AE prone that doesnt have the targeting issues associated with Nerf Ball
Replace shard oteA with the "icewind dale Arcanist" power "meteor Swarm/Storm" not sure which it's called. AE prone that doesnt have the targeting issues associated with Nerf Ball
Nope, fix it instead.
Sincerely, every pvp cw lol
Virus, Enemy Team.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Moderator Notice: . . . Once again, the Feedback Stickies are not discussion threads. They are for direct feedback related to things you've personally experienced on the Preview Server. They are not for discussions with each other nor arguments or smack talk and definitely not for discussing things on the live server. If you find your posts moved to the Discussion threads, then such as been deemed more of a discussion than direct feedback.
. . . Further disregard for the Rules and Developer requests will not be tolerated, so read and abide:
Guys, lets get this thread back on topic. This thread is exclusively for feedback that has stemmed from actually playing on the preview shard. Please do not post feedback that has not been actively tested as it serves only to clutter the thread. Numbers, Screenshots, ACT parses are all helpful, but speculation without testing isn't.
. . . Please do not reply to this Moderator Notice, as doing so is not allowed. Instead, contact us via Private Message to discuss forum Moderation.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator UPDATE: (Thanks for bring this up anonymous user!) . . . If you feel a player is here just to troll, please do not reply to their posts. Instead, report their posts to us that you believe to be in violation and then ignore them (through sheer will or the ignore feature). Replying to rule violations is a violation in itself. So, the best thing to do with trolls is to deny them what they seek; attention. Thanks!
CW is doing fine if you're at thaum feat. You can't just win all. I don't want anymore buff as in later everyone QQ about us at forum and later on we share the same fate as GWF.
They got some unstopable DR nerf which they can easily get back from their new Artifact weapon and some defense raise! Their dps didn't cut in almost half!
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
100% support these changes -- I would hate to see the meta shift to a bunch of shield wearing assailant spammers, very little build customization, and small dependency on overall skill or mastery of your rotation (ie. landing shard).
Comments
Currently, Magic Missiles is the best choice for single-target damage, since it stacks Arcane Mastery and has a good performance. For AoE situations, Chilling Cloud is better.
But, in any situation, Chilling Cloud is currently better for Thaumaturge and Oppressor due to Chill stacking benefits, debuffs and Frozen Power Transfer, and here is my doubt. Why was Magic Missiles nerfed and Chilling Cloud buffed?
This nerf is even more strange when you think about the other Paragon Path's at-wills, because they have more interesting mechanics in comparison to Magic Missiles and deal even more damage on single-target damage after this nerf, making the Magic Missiles not being the best choice for any situation.
AFAIK only the last 2 hits of Magic Missiles weren't properly benefiting of Armor Penetration, which is 24% less damage for these hits, but the OVERALL damage of this power was reduced by 33%; it's not only 9% overflowed nerf, but it also decreases the damage of the other 3 hits that weren't buffed.
Is there any reason for this nerf that I didn't consider? Why was Magic Missiles nerfed if other powers can be used replacing it with almost no difference?
I still think the master slot should be reworked. It should work as follows:
- It enables the use of an energy bar that recharges slowly passively.
- When activated all skills change dramatically becoming stronger in return doubles the cast time in using them.
- The secret is to be patient and use the power at the right time.
- Loss of energy bar can not be stopped at the end starts charging again.
Feedback:
Modify the following feats
Controlling Action: Gain 1/2/3/4/5% of your total Action Point when using powers on a controlled target. (10 second cooldown)
Fight On: Encounter fixed cooldowns reduced by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Battlewise: Increases your damage by 1/2/3% per Arcane Mastery stack (5 stacks = +30%)
Wizard's Wrath: Armor penetration bonus by 3/6/9%
Blighting Power: Chill reduces the target deflection by 1/2/3% per stack
Lightning Teleport: Consumption of stamina to teleport reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%
Arcane Enhancement: Arcane Mastery stack lasts longer 0.5/1.5/2.5 seconds
Learned Spellcaster: Encounter cast time reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%
Prestidigitation: You and your allies gain 2/4/6% increased Stat Ratings (does not stack)
Focused Wizardry: Chance to ignore immunity to control by 3/6/9%
What was giving us a little chance in live server (a really little) was armor pen feat and debuf spell (and that in thauma or renegade way). Without that buff dammage are already cut by 3 or even 4 on live server. Since they practicaly taking it all + reducing damage around 15 to 30 % on single target we are doing 30-40% of damage now.
let take a fight in live server between a GF or GWF with 80% dr (yes sentinel can goes to more than 80% with inflexible). 1 if you have entrengling force it do 0 damage against control immun target). let make count on thauma way with a classic and consider the best for the CW (spell not block by all instant control encounter on GF or GWF). default ice knife, ray of enfeeblisment in tab, ice conduct, let say steal time and chill strike for damage. base damage on my character in same order 12K,6K, 4K,4K,6K. alos lvl 9 spell plague enchant
with 15% armor pen and the fact that arcane spell reduce armor 10% more (t4 feat of thauma) you get in this order.
(ice knife usable only once)
1 ice conduct: 4k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.2(tenacity))= 1.12 K
2 ray : 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.15+0.1)*(1-0.2 )*(1.15+1.15)= 2.8 k
3 second ray: (most of time i see that both in live and test server second ray do 0 damage): 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.3+0.15)*(1.45)=5.22K
4 ice knife: 12K *(1-0.8+0.3+0.15)*(1-0.2)*1.45=10.44K
5 and 6 give an extra summ of 8.7. mean your doing at all 28k dammage mean to shot a GF and GWF with 80 DR you need if he let you strike 2 full roll of spell to shot him (40K life) 30 second.. here that the best without blocking or dodging or be controled or interrupt even once + ice knife charged (practicaly 50% damage here) mean without ice knife = 18k roll
now let see in test server with same spell.
ice knife do 11k base, ray: 4K, ice conduct:3K, steal time 6K, and chill strike:4k let also say that with the actual statment assaillant will proc once per 10 second (here is best since it's the minimal time that it can proc)
same fight.
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 second ray.4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 2.7k
4 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 7.37 K
5 the rest: 6.7K damage and add 1 assaillant for 4 k: =17.61 k + 4 k = 21k at all. and 14K without ice knife: mean 45 second to kill without any dodge or anything nore any life back.
with new shield slotted in tab
taking same other spell just replace chill strike with ray (couting assaillant proc same once per roll)
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 6.5 K
4 steal time: 6k*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15:3.5K
total 12.5k with ice knife +4k from assaillant: 16.5k without ice knife: 10K dammage mean 1 min to kill a passive player
know let see the other side. since def haven't change from live server and test server without shield it pretty the same.
1 all GF and GWF have at least 1 feat that provide 0.1 DR reduce+ let say a terror enchant lvl 9 and same 15% Dr ignore
A wizard can have at best 30% dr. mean only the first shot will have 5% dr left rest is 100% damage* 0.8 for tenacity
with a mere 6K medium feat damage it give
first shot: 6K *(1-0.05)*(1-0.8):4.56K
rest :4.8k
daily : 12k = 9.6
total: 23.76 K (as you can see i do not count any boost dammage to consider a fight against a GF. against GWF you can easely up that by 1.25%). with a 25K or 30K PV CW; your are near or already dead if even one crit (since we have 0 deflect value)
with shield and against a player that do not strike with at will to reduce damage it give
4.56*(1-0.8):0.912k
4.8*(1-0.5):2.4k
4.8*(1-0.25):3.6k
9.6*(1-0.25):7.2k
=14k and since shield will not reup after first roll, second role also do 3.6k each mean 10.8k . mean we are dead in 2 roll of encounter.
And since our at will do less damage we canno't hope anything from there too.
PS in GF case with there 30 second up shield we will be dead before we can control them with shield down and since we don't have any control immun we are already dead before doing any spell.
With on live server we already have hard time with a ratio of 20-25 second to kill vs 15 second for other due to control immun.
now on previous server we need twice the time we needed in live server with nothing else change for control or anything else.
Even with the 50% last shield lvl we were at disavatage but not an unpassable one
Edit:
in all that" i took each time the best case for CW but practically always min case for opponent
Isn't the whole point of this thread to create a form of comunication between players and devs about how to fix the class and make it still viable in pve and pvp?
It certainly doesen't feel like it at all.
You guys keep ignoring us and in less than a month the new module goes live.
Anyway..
Exactly.
Give us something to work with first and then we can talk about the Feat fixes for the different trees.
No. Leave Mastery alone.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
I just wanted to say that I agree with these changes.
/ ZengiaH PvP CW from Disrespect (former Enemy Team)
Before they renerf shield and cut by half damage from assaillant. thauma way was near a good PVP class and only little adjust were needed for this way even if the build was a lonely config build, it was existing.
For oppressor way, they should have at least one CC that can break CC immun and have other control that don t take many second to activate
And for renegade should have a real party buff debuf tree that can really help party.
Also for all class we should have at least some spell that not take this long to be launch so we have a way to avoid interrupt in some way. we also need a real mechanism like other class to avoid control for some period of time since we have no way to escape or avoid fight.
But all that have been said so many time that is again useless post.
EDIT: Most of the CW community have left, fiew still remain and none of them want to continue test on the actual statment of CW, we don t care if there is bug or not since we don t want to play this class anymore on V4. we are only 4 or 5 CW player that continue trying to have a playable class, but our energy is limited
CW is doing fine if you're at thaum feat. You can't just win all. I don't want anymore buff as in later everyone QQ about us at forum and later on we share the same fate as GWF.
We are not the Welfare Class, we want our own powers to do damage and not to be reliant on some craptactular feat that pacifies 1/3 of all CW's.
Have you guys seen the new CONTROL FIGHTERS? Awesome control ability, I'm a bit jealous.
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
-This is far overpowered compare to any class feat as mostly we have 5% increase from int, 5% increase from str or 6% encounter power etc. Your suggestion makes it become 30% single and 60% extra at-will.
The other suggestion is fine.
If the only class CW can kill is a perma TR in 1v1 (not 2v2 or 3v3), it's not acceptable.
I have tested, from my point of view, all possible builds so far (especially the Thaums, since it's the last straw PvP CWs could hold on). If you have a certain build + setup (encounters, stats, etc.) in mind that I might've left out, feel free to send me a pm, and I'll be happy to test it against equally geared and skilled players of other classes. If you believe that my (personal) skills might be lacking, I'll be happy to set you up with other experienced PvP players of any class, so you can test it for its maximum potential.
Magic Missile damage got cut by ~50% damage (compared to what it is on live). Getting it back to what it is on live now would mean a 100% increase. It's basic math. So having a 60% increase on it would mean that it would still be nerfed compared to live.
Easier explanation: 50% nerf = cut the damage in half. 100% buff = twice the damage. Cutting the damage by 50% and then buffing it by 60% means that it's still nerfed by 20% from what it was before.
Same with Encounters. Our single target encounters are already weak and the damage got nerfed even more. Now, why did I say At-Wills and not single target? Because they should not affect dailies. If you put your points into Learned Spellcaster, you miss out on ~6.5% more damage for everything, including dailies. +6.5% on base damage and crits. Why 6.5? Because it is how it works. Quite easy to determine when you parse a run with ACT.
As for myself, I would rather take learned Spellcaster and have 6.5% bonus damage on ALL my spells and crits than 60% more damage on At-Wills that are already weak as hell. They don't even tickle a GF or HR. They out-regen them easily. Again, I want to see some feedback from the devs before I make the effort to post all my ACT stuff and explain it.
Trust me, 60% on At-Wills and Encounters would not be overpowered compared to LS on everything. Unless of course you have a human, then you can take both if you say that you don't want the damage bonuses from Chill and that you don't want the +2 on stats. I don't think that many people would go for this feat. It is at the end of the chain and you gotta ask yourself: if you're a Renegade, it would bring you close to where you are now. If you're a Thaum/Oppressor, you would prefer Chill. Since it's a single target bonus, it would not affect Shard on TAB or any other strong encounter that has OP potential.
For GWF : Ray > chill strike > icy ray > entangling / or shield on tab. Basically now you can always keep a gap with gwf without their prone.
For HR : GF setup if melee (and most likely they are melee, just dodge boar) However, we most likely lose due to their fast hp regen / never-ending kite.
For TR : This would be the easiest. GPF enchant. Shield on tab > ice terrain > steal time (use for canceling only, proc assailing and slow, and tell us where they are. but u alrdy know that) > icy ray.
For DC : never tested it.
You could try my suggestion. With severe reaction feat of course.
And use orb imposition passive.
1 small reminder*
This game is about teamplay. In domi we dont go facetank gwf nor gf, we hide behind our teammate. If we are to complain about 1v1, i bet DC would even complain more.
+edit : Our post here will all be moved by tomorrow by moderator.
Confirm with this post, no one want to take CW in his team in pvp becouse it is shoot in his own knee
- we already have no single target DMG, and after this all nerfs our DMG will disappear completely, i can't understand why casting time and single target is going down. Have you ever try to catch PTR playing CW? this is maddnes our casting time is so long that before i use skill he is on the other side of point ( i only disagree with you that we can kill PTR, maby with good crit you can hit him hard but it is still great luck or "very talanted" perma tr if you kill him)
- we have got the worst survivability between whole classes, we are death meet which is selected to kill in first becouse we can be death in few good skils.
-our only chance to survive is all time running and dont let your enemy to get close to you so we can't hold points for our team, becouse "tanking" isnt role of this class, maby we can play with tanky dc on point and try to perma freeze him and thats all
-what else...and first of all- we can't good controll our enemy becouse time of our stuns is maby 0,3-0,5s when GWF stuns last 2x 3s, not to mention about HRs, they are masters of control peoples in pvp, anyway most of this classes have theirs immunity and our control is ****.
so what? no power, no survivability, no control no special atack, cw is nothing, for a long time from module 2.5 cw is "whipping boy", and i can see that you want to continue this tradition.
What you are aiming is magic missile. Lets look at the larger margin.
At will : ray of frost
encounter single : entangling, ray of enfee, icy ray, chill strike & repel
by the feat alone, all the damage nerf done to them would be revert back same as live, and some even better. Then whats the point of designer nerfing all these skill?
Look at the bright side, we have thaum assailing. which do 4-5k dmg every 5sec unmigratable. And yes this means everyone would be going for thaum cw pvp. This is why i said your other suggestion is fine/good to bring viable for renegade.
The current DC on preview can tank 2 - 3 players infinitely. He might not be able to kill, but if someone willingly chooses "Devoted Cleric", one might not expect to have chosen a killing machine.
When I started playing the game, we had a choice (and all 3 choices were viable!):
- Oppressor for control.
- Thaumaturge for pure damage.
- Renegade for burst/crit damage (low damage on non-crits).
Now we don't have a choice anymore.
As for hiding behind a teammate and teamplay. How is an HR not better in this situation? He doesn't need to hide, deals ridiculous damage, is tanky as hell and controls pretty well. How is our Icy Terrain better than a Thorn Ward on a node? Or GWF. Or even just a perma TR to make sure the point stays contested. Or the new GF. Any other class is tankier, deals more damage and has better controls (maybe not in terms of pure control in 1v1 if specced into full Oppressor). What is our role then? PvE?
Changes:
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
I don't like assailant. It is a big part of the damage that we are no longer able to do otherwise. It works pretty well, outside of pvp considerations. But what bothers me is : this is damage out of nowhere, without skill. It would be nice to have a feat that effectively reward the way we play, with a real boost to damage, rather than damage falling from the sky, there are already storm spell for that.
Feedback CC immunity :
We need some sort of CC immunity. Our worst enemies may be others CW because we will be the easiest class to control. There is not a single feat that gives us CC immunity when, in my opinion, we should be able to resist some powers that we are able to launch.
Storm Spell does seem to receive a damage boost from the feat Focused Wizardry.
Feedback: Focused Wizardry
After testing this feat I've concluded that it lacks any real appeal. Several of the single target spells that CW's use are control oriented, not damage oriented (Ray of Frost, Repel, Entangling Force). Boosting the damage of those spells is inconsequential since they don't affect the overall damage output of a CW when boosted by Focused Wizardry. Other single target spells meant for damage do not receive any boost from Focused Wizardry (Ray of Enfeeblement and Storm Spell). The only spells that actually get a decent benefit from this feat are Magic Missile, Chill Strike (only when not tabbed), Icy Rays, and Ice Knife. If given a choice of boosting those four spells by 6% or boosting all outgoing damage by 3.5% (which is about what three points spent in Learned Spellcaster gives) everyone will choose the across the board 3.5% boost. This needs to be higher to be a competitive option.
As has been mentioned over and over in this thread: Single target damage by CW's has never been out of line with other classes. CW's have always done the least single-target damage of all of the DPS classes. That nerfs were applied to single-target spells have taken CW's from "less single-target damage" to "completely non-competitive single-target damage." This feat is an opportunity for those who want to PvP to have some measure of single-target damage back. But, as is, it's not useful.
this is 100% accurate and i completely agree with these changes. amazing world mel
-spastic doge@adamy2004 Chocolate shoppe PvP CW
Mathematically, this feat sort of works as advertised. However, in practice it is far less effective than someone reading the description would be led to believe.
For example: If a spell has a 15 second cooldown and I place 5 points in Fight on, the new cooldown will be 15/(1+.1)=13.6 seconds. It is reduced by 9.3%.
However, now let's say I have 3500 recovery (which equates to 24% cooldown reduction), 24 INT, and 18 Wisdom. Without Fight On, the cooldown on the same feat will be (15/(1+.24+.14+.08)) = 10.2 seconds. With 5 points in Fight On the cooldown time will be (15/(1+.1+.24+.14+.08)) = 9.6 seconds.
The reduction from 10.2 seconds to 9.6 seconds is only a (0.6/10.2) = 5.8% reduction in cooldown time.
The end result of this is that the way cooldowns are calculated as Recovery, Intelligence, and Wisdom go up, the usefulness of this feat goes down. As your character improves you get less and less benefit from this feat because of how it is calculated.
I would recommend re-working this feat so that the cooldown reduction is applied to the base cooldowns, not as part of the reduction that is lumped in with Recovery, Intelligence, and Wisdom.
Cooldown time = (Base cooldown*(1-ranks in Fight On/50))/(1+Recovery+Intelligence+Wisdom+other bonuses)
That way a player would get 10% knocked off the cooldown time regardless of other reductions
Word.
/ ZengiaH @ Disrespect (Former Enemy Team)
Nope, fix it instead.
Sincerely, every pvp cw lol
. . . Once again, the Feedback Stickies are not discussion threads. They are for direct feedback related to things you've personally experienced on the Preview Server. They are not for discussions with each other nor arguments or smack talk and definitely not for discussing things on the live server. If you find your posts moved to the Discussion threads, then such as been deemed more of a discussion than direct feedback.
. . . Further disregard for the Rules and Developer requests will not be tolerated, so read and abide: . . . Please do not reply to this Moderator Notice, as doing so is not allowed. Instead, contact us via Private Message to discuss forum Moderation.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
UPDATE: (Thanks for bring this up anonymous user!)
. . . If you feel a player is here just to troll, please do not reply to their posts. Instead, report their posts to us that you believe to be in violation and then ignore them (through sheer will or the ignore feature). Replying to rule violations is a violation in itself. So, the best thing to do with trolls is to deny them what they seek; attention. Thanks!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
They got some unstopable DR nerf which they can easily get back from their new Artifact weapon and some defense raise! Their dps didn't cut in almost half!
100% support these changes -- I would hate to see the meta shift to a bunch of shield wearing assailant spammers, very little build customization, and small dependency on overall skill or mastery of your rotation (ie. landing shard).
twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay