Oh great. Now I have to choose between PVE or PVP damage. So what? Repec feats to do some domination and then respec again to do a dungeon? Why are you forcing us to choose PVE or PVP?
Ever since tenacity was introduced and separate pvp armor sets,it was only a matter of time before you had pvp and pve powers. It is crystal clear that this is cryptics adamant intent. So no reason getting into that discussion.
Yes, where are the patch notes. I have a feeling that 20s EotS ICD won't solve a thing, though gotta test it. Because the casting time is increased and cool down time is increased for many spells, the - 5 second on EotS won't help much. If it was 5-10 s. ICD I'd consider taking it. But there are many other feats that have no ICD and are either constantly presenting chance to deal additional damage, have CC longer or buff aoe encounters all the time. Which makes them far more appealing then EotS still.
Plus this ICD is INVISIBLE, we cannot measure when will it be gone, so that we can use encounters and not waste EotS on at wills! This issue has been brought up few times already.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Hey all, we are making a bunch of buffs to Paragon class features that were under performing and making Eye of the Storm easier to use. Additionally we want to address player concerns about Shard of the Endless Avalanche and reinforce its intent as part of a Wizard's kit.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Control Wizard: Storm Fury: Damage increased by 200%.
Control Wizard: Swath of Destruction: Damage Debuff increased to 5% per rank and Smolder Damage is increased by 15% per rank (up from 2% and 8% respectively).
Control Wizard: Combustive Action: Damage Debuff applied by Combustive action is no longer just Fire damage, but all damage. Debuff is now 6% per rank (up from 3% per rank).
These changes should make all of these class features more attractive to Wizards of all trees and improve the usage of them in most cases.
Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
1 first thanks for the reply at least i now feel that you are aware of the problem of the actual CW on the previous server and that what ever we (players) and you have differents view for solve it. at least now that if feel like the actual CW (without counting your last change) is not the final version.
2 shard point; i understand your view and i can say you that this power is actually useless (on previous) 1 it less damage than the actual steal time you find and 2 it already a quite frusrtating feat that i actually only use in my slot because it does damage and that the only reason since it is so much bugged (does not launch and especially when there is some lag, does not explode, can be move by some mob power, disapear when controled and if i'm based on the actual damage i'm able to get with, it more or less 3k per target with max 5 target). If this spell is so problematic don't buff , don't nerf : change it make a complete new spell . Honestly in pvp i'm not using it, too hard to control and too easy to counter. i even take habit when i face an other CW that use that to just wait him invoc shard to control him since he can't move and it make shard disapear (generaly this CW unslot it for the rest of the battle).
for now measuring new change i need to test it before making comment.
By the way thanks for hear at least the fact that we are in the bottom of the sea and that is a problem you are working on
Also something that really can help us to test is to have a statment of the change but also what are the incomming change that are not yet on the previous server. i saw lot of comment that are based on false or more often on old version of previous and that especialy about PVP point (what ever the class). I'm sure it is something that can help every one. (if it exist just says me where)
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gilimyrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 5Arc User
Focused Wizardry: Now increases single target damage by 10/20/30% but reduces AoE damage by 30/20/10%.
Any chance this could be put on a power like Evocation, rather than a feat? A feat is permanent and basically forces us to spec for either PvP or PvE. By putting it on a power, it would provide the option for changing PvP/PvE focus by switching powers around.
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
I like the changes, the shard change though...LOL the skill was bugged already and you guys never fixed it - instead you destroyed it. I...just...don't...understand. Shard was so much fun too, RIP
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
I must've missed where it's up to 6 seconds now. I thought it was 4 at max rank. Yeah it's a huge buff.
Not only do you get to start with guaranteed crits, but once you get used to the timing, you can actually really use it dependably. No more relying on chance at all- you just have to gauge the 20 seconds right.
In fact, everything he posted is a buff! He just included a note saying he's not going to revert a nerf, and everyone is flipping out just because they were talking about shard recently.
If shard was such a big deal why wait until page 85 to start complaining about the nerf? That nerf is not new, it's been there since this thread started.
And dear lord can you renegade's just buy a respect token and be done with it already? Renegade isn't a great spec to begin with.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Control Wizard: Storm Fury: Damage increased by 200%.
Control Wizard: Swath of Destruction: Damage Debuff increased to 5% per rank and Smolder Damage is increased by 15% per rank (up from 2% and 8% respectively).
Control Wizard: Combustive Action: Damage Debuff applied by Combustive action is no longer just Fire damage, but all damage. Debuff is now 6% per rank (up from 3% per rank).
This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
I have tested too and can say that you forget a few things. First of all,with the Invisible ICD, Eots procced at the wrong time more often than not,rendering it even less useful.Who said that even 6 secs of uptime are enough to balance more than a 50% damage nerf on average and 75% nerf on the most used ability cws had: SoEA. I had trouble killing monsters in IWD with any build other than a thauma and with an Oppressor , it took ages to kill anything.I won't even mention Renegade that has become a utility paragon or Dungeons where even adds are unkillable by a cw. We have no cc immunity,no substantial armor and even shield got nerfed because it was OP?. Really now, eye of the storm OP? I don't think so.You have to see the larger picture.
This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.
Feedback: Storm Spell
I, regretfully, second this. I've come up with a Thaumaturge DoT build on the preview server where Storm Spell does ~10% of my total damage, which is pretty good for a class feature. These changes will increase the damage of Storm Spell to SEVEN times what it currently is.
(The math: It did say ~1000 damage on 10% of attacks = 100 added damage per attack. Now it will do 2000 damage on 35% of attacks = 700 added damage per attack.)
That will give me the ability, with the right build, to do more damage than I do now on live. This buff is needed if you're using a normal build, but DoT builds will be able to exploit the heck out of this change.
I, regretfully, second this. I've come up with a Thaumaturge DoT build on the preview server where Storm Spell does ~10% of my total damage, which is pretty good for a class feature. These changes will increase the damage of Storm Spell to SEVEN times what it currently is.
(The math: It did say ~1000 damage on 10% of attacks = 100 added damage per attack. Now it will do 2000 damage on 35% of attacks = 700 added damage per attack.)
That will give me the ability, with the right build, to do more damage than I do now on live. This buff is needed if you're using a normal build, but DoT builds will be able to exploit the heck out of this change.
Good. Then maybe we have a chance against TR/GWF/HR.
This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.
To follow up on this, buffing Storm Spell will suck even more life out of SotEA. Creeping Frost + Storm Spell demands Icy Terrain and CoI big time and SotEA can't compete with Steal Time and Sudden Storm, who are now the big hitters in your rotation.
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naveed24Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
5. CW in PvP cannot be viable without (at least) the Eye of the Storm as it is now on Live (not that they're viable now). Either give us a feat possibility to remove the cooldown or roll it back to the situation on Live. Without it, the CW in PvP is dead, no matter what changes will be coming!
6. Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer, could you please address the PvP Oppressor, PvP Thaumaturge, and PvP Renegade? Give us a sign that you can see us and that you're planning some changes that will address PvP. On the Live Shard, you can see where the CW currently stands in PvP: in a very bad place. And in the current state on live, the CW is dead. I have practically done all your work, parsed all kinds of different situations, including PvE runs, for free and presented you with a solution to an ideal balance that would make everyone happy in PvP without affecting PvE. It was a lot of work for me that I am not being paid for, because I'm doing it to keep the community alive. If you do not believe that CW should participate in PvP in Neverwinter, please tell me, because I don't want to waste time on a game I and my friends won't be able to play in 2 weeks. I understand that you're working on multiple projects at the same time. I have my own software company and understand that project management isn't the easiest area to work in. But you are lucky enough to have a community here, where people don't stay, because they like the game so much, but because it has a DnD label on it. Use this community for your advantage. Listen to it, implement the changes, let them test it. You have made a huge mistake with the GF in the past. Don't let that happen to the CW.
[/B]
Its obvious the community is against these changes, why not do some more tweaks and test, test and more tests on preview until it is done correctly? This will prevent over/under nerfing, which as it stands is completely over nerfing. This WILL kill this class, which is played by A LOT of people since it is one of the original classes and many people have invested time and money into it. Don't GF this!
And dear lord can you renegade's just buy a respect token and be done with it already? Renegade isn't a great spec to begin with.
Sure, if they can ALSO refund my 3 artifacts and all the refinenement points used for them and my combat advantage companions. Then maybe.
You have to understand that gearing for renegade is vastly different from gearing for another spec. It requires investment in very specific items that are totally useless to other classes.
The way it is, it's pretty much the same as if I threw away about 15m AD.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
If I'm reading this correctly, this means that a CW with 3 ranks in EotS starts every battle with 6 seconds of 100% criticals. That's an entire rotation. On the face of it that will be pretty OP.
So we have an entire module to put up with a shard that does not correctly collide with players when used through such things as thorn ward, hallowed ground & the new banners etc then change everything but the thing everyone is begging to be changed in pvp, change how shard works only on TAB with a 5 character collision limit
- [Tempzy]
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kriszbMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
Eots is only a 3s buff. if you actually played cw, you would know this. please go back to whatever class forums u came from
Is it WAI that if you hit a stealthed targed with Repel that it will become visible for you and all your allies even if the enemies stealth bar is not fully drained?
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Eots is only a 3s buff. if you actually played cw, you would know this. please go back to whatever class forums u came from
Eye of the Storm: This power now has an internal cooldown of 90 seconds. Base Duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2). Duration increase per rank increased to 1 (up from .5).
While the ICD is no longer 90 seconds, I don't remember any patch notes about the duration decreasing back to 3s. I even double checked all of the preview patch notes so far to see if there was any mention of it, yet there isn't.
Edit: I even got a screenshot of the description currently on Preview and just tested it to confirm that the time is correct.
As a reminder for everyone complaining about the EotS cooldown, before it was changed to how it acts on Live, it had an 8 second duration with a 30 second ICD and the devs said that it was providing "too much burst damage" at the time. Now, its even better than that, so I'm not sure what they are expecting to get out of this.
Eye of the Storm: This power now has an internal cooldown of 90 seconds. Base Duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2). Duration increase per rank increased to 1 (up from .5).
It's been buffed to six seconds on the preview server. 4+1+1 = 6.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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sokolnichiyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 187Arc User
Can you be more specific about the tests you've done and especialy your character lvl but also if you are playing the exact same character with same equipment on live server (just be honest).
Why i ask you that it's beacuse i have a 15k wizard with ioun stone and enchant and with that i'm doing more than twice the damage a fresh 10 gs CW will do. and if i can do encounter in second map of IWD on the test server only requiring twice time as on live server (but still doable) on the bugged encounter in the first map or in briggin i can already feel the difficulty so i can easely imagine what it give for a fresh CW in IWD.
some encounter in the first map of IWD look like to have epic life (it is the case on live server but it was also the case when i did my first test around 3 weeks ago on the previous server) In the second map encounter have more life barr than the normal mob on the map but they are not with epic statut
Dang lad i dont understand washa toking about... ((
I have a 15k with Ioun Stone MoF/THAUM CW Legion/Black Ice gear, Plaguefire chant. Transfered him to preview, respeced into the same Thaum/MoF CW just changing feats to max out pve effectivnes. and i steamroll every god darn mob on any map of high level content and heroic encounters in dwarven valley cause i get damage, i have controll with stun slow and freeze + debufing and burning stuff and lots of lifesteal to keep me up thx for large and constant burn damage.
On live server in open world pvp i easely burn TR's no matter what spec....even DC's and other CW...HR...here it's rather complicated with em....GWF GF...no sir...
Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).
I would trade a reduction in these things -- (Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc) -- for an increase in damage. You mentioned that before 'you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions' in place of shard and now you have made it so that shard is NEVER a better option.
Thanks for the other buffs, but all we've been asking for is damage back on shard and if that were done this thread would be over except for the others asking for Renegade changes (which should also be done).
So...now all CW rotation will be -> thauma-> chill strike-> entangling force-> icy terrain- tab shield-> and jump around point waiting to assaling force will kill your enemy-> sounds interesting, thank you for incredible changes ^.^
Personally, i stopped to use shard becouse it was mighty bugged (missed, stuck, disappear when we were stunned) but using it was really fun, sometimes i was using it to refresh my ability to control this power becouse it is really hard (probably hardest skill to learn in pvp in all game, and players were learning their combo through many many days and battles), now 33% down +66% down + all ours feats down = no damage, and sorry maby when i was fighting with another CW dmg was high but during the battle with good GWF/HR dmg was funny low, there is no problem with dmg in this skill, it is problem with paper classes with their survivabiliy. I was waiting when you fix this skill, that i can use it more often in pvp matches, but you really completely burn it down...well looks like my RoE still reigns on TAB.
Control Wizard: Eye of the Storm: ICD has been reduced to 20 seconds.
Control WIzard: Eye of the Storm: Activation chance is now 100% from any power while off cooldown.
Control Wizard: Storm Spell: Activation Chance increased to 35%. Damage increased by roughly 100%.
Wow , Thanks for these two changes , in PvE these alone will at least boost CW dps a fair amount back up , as for Shard I can't say I am happy about losing it but fair enough ,it is painful to lose the skill but I guess it is also a reason to try something new and I am sure many appreciate the above changes to make up for the damage loss , I've had pretty much the same build in PvE for 2 modules so time for a change.
Is it WAI that if you hit a stealthed targed with Repel that it will become visible for you and all your allies even if the enemies stealth bar is not fully drained?
Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).
Yes SotEA is complicated power that requires skill (more so in PvP) to use and that should be rewarded but with these nerfs there is no point in using it
This shows a lack of understanding of the CWs roll and what these "balances" will accomplish there are many many posts from what I would consider veteran Players (both PvP and PvE) against these changes please listen to them as combined they have far more hours using than the devs could even hope to get.
Please listen to you players who actually play the class.
so the take away message is DONT NERF SotEA
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited August 2014
Still no love for the renegades, I see.
Will we at least be getting respec tokens so we can drop Focused Wizardry, or are we all to stay at campfires from now on.
Also, when will be able to put our points back into Nightmare Wizardry so we can test it?
Comments
Ever since tenacity was introduced and separate pvp armor sets,it was only a matter of time before you had pvp and pve powers. It is crystal clear that this is cryptics adamant intent. So no reason getting into that discussion.
Plus this ICD is INVISIBLE, we cannot measure when will it be gone, so that we can use encounters and not waste EotS on at wills! This issue has been brought up few times already.
1 first thanks for the reply at least i now feel that you are aware of the problem of the actual CW on the previous server and that what ever we (players) and you have differents view for solve it. at least now that if feel like the actual CW (without counting your last change) is not the final version.
2 shard point; i understand your view and i can say you that this power is actually useless (on previous) 1 it less damage than the actual steal time you find and 2 it already a quite frusrtating feat that i actually only use in my slot because it does damage and that the only reason since it is so much bugged (does not launch and especially when there is some lag, does not explode, can be move by some mob power, disapear when controled and if i'm based on the actual damage i'm able to get with, it more or less 3k per target with max 5 target). If this spell is so problematic don't buff , don't nerf : change it make a complete new spell . Honestly in pvp i'm not using it, too hard to control and too easy to counter. i even take habit when i face an other CW that use that to just wait him invoc shard to control him since he can't move and it make shard disapear (generaly this CW unslot it for the rest of the battle).
for now measuring new change i need to test it before making comment.
By the way thanks for hear at least the fact that we are in the bottom of the sea and that is a problem you are working on
Also something that really can help us to test is to have a statment of the change but also what are the incomming change that are not yet on the previous server. i saw lot of comment that are based on false or more often on old version of previous and that especialy about PVP point (what ever the class). I'm sure it is something that can help every one. (if it exist just says me where)
Any chance this could be put on a power like Evocation, rather than a feat? A feat is permanent and basically forces us to spec for either PvP or PvE. By putting it on a power, it would provide the option for changing PvP/PvE focus by switching powers around.
I get that I'm in the minority on this, but I'll voice my opinion anyway.
People are forgetting that Eye of the Storm has had its duration buffed from 3 seconds at rank 3 to 6 seconds at rank 3. This is a huge, huge buff. Now instead of squeezing one or two spells into its duration your can fit an entire rotation. It doesn't make up for a 25 or even a 20 second cooldown, but considering that Eye of the Storm was the best passive class feature in the game (by a mile) to begin with, it's a reasonable tradeoff.
As of 7/31 on the preview server EoTS provided a larger damage boost in a sustained fight than any other passive a CW had. I tested this many times with many different builds (including Renegade builds).
In a NORMAL situation where there is combat, then a break, then combat, then a break it outperforms every other CW passive ability by a significant margin.
Now that the ICD is getting reduced to 20 seconds and procs 100% of the time from all powers a CW will be able to waltz into any fight and instantly score 100% critical hits on their entire rotation--PVP fights included.
Frankly, I'm baffled that the developers have given us that. It may be even more overpowered than it is on Mod 3 because of its duration and reliability at the start of every fight. I'm stunned that the overwhelming response to this is even more complaints. Has no one realized how ridiculous this is going to be? The developers have just handed CW's across the board 100% crits to start every fight. That is nuts! Personally I think that is way, way too strong a passive.
I must've missed where it's up to 6 seconds now. I thought it was 4 at max rank. Yeah it's a huge buff.
Not only do you get to start with guaranteed crits, but once you get used to the timing, you can actually really use it dependably. No more relying on chance at all- you just have to gauge the 20 seconds right.
In fact, everything he posted is a buff! He just included a note saying he's not going to revert a nerf, and everyone is flipping out just because they were talking about shard recently.
If shard was such a big deal why wait until page 85 to start complaining about the nerf? That nerf is not new, it's been there since this thread started.
And dear lord can you renegade's just buy a respect token and be done with it already? Renegade isn't a great spec to begin with.
This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.
I have tested too and can say that you forget a few things. First of all,with the Invisible ICD, Eots procced at the wrong time more often than not,rendering it even less useful.Who said that even 6 secs of uptime are enough to balance more than a 50% damage nerf on average and 75% nerf on the most used ability cws had: SoEA. I had trouble killing monsters in IWD with any build other than a thauma and with an Oppressor , it took ages to kill anything.I won't even mention Renegade that has become a utility paragon or Dungeons where even adds are unkillable by a cw. We have no cc immunity,no substantial armor and even shield got nerfed because it was OP?. Really now, eye of the storm OP? I don't think so.You have to see the larger picture.
Feedback: Storm Spell
I, regretfully, second this. I've come up with a Thaumaturge DoT build on the preview server where Storm Spell does ~10% of my total damage, which is pretty good for a class feature. These changes will increase the damage of Storm Spell to SEVEN times what it currently is.
(The math: It did say ~1000 damage on 10% of attacks = 100 added damage per attack. Now it will do 2000 damage on 35% of attacks = 700 added damage per attack.)
That will give me the ability, with the right build, to do more damage than I do now on live. This buff is needed if you're using a normal build, but DoT builds will be able to exploit the heck out of this change.
Good. Then maybe we have a chance against TR/GWF/HR.
To follow up on this, buffing Storm Spell will suck even more life out of SotEA. Creeping Frost + Storm Spell demands Icy Terrain and CoI big time and SotEA can't compete with Steal Time and Sudden Storm, who are now the big hitters in your rotation.
Its obvious the community is against these changes, why not do some more tweaks and test, test and more tests on preview until it is done correctly? This will prevent over/under nerfing, which as it stands is completely over nerfing. This WILL kill this class, which is played by A LOT of people since it is one of the original classes and many people have invested time and money into it. Don't GF this!
Sure, if they can ALSO refund my 3 artifacts and all the refinenement points used for them and my combat advantage companions. Then maybe.
You have to understand that gearing for renegade is vastly different from gearing for another spec. It requires investment in very specific items that are totally useless to other classes.
The way it is, it's pretty much the same as if I threw away about 15m AD.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Is it WAI that if you hit a stealthed targed with Repel that it will become visible for you and all your allies even if the enemies stealth bar is not fully drained?
We are always looking for new models --- Borderline Fashiondolls ---
While the ICD is no longer 90 seconds, I don't remember any patch notes about the duration decreasing back to 3s. I even double checked all of the preview patch notes so far to see if there was any mention of it, yet there isn't.
Edit: I even got a screenshot of the description currently on Preview and just tested it to confirm that the time is correct.
As a reminder for everyone complaining about the EotS cooldown, before it was changed to how it acts on Live, it had an 8 second duration with a 30 second ICD and the devs said that it was providing "too much burst damage" at the time. Now, its even better than that, so I'm not sure what they are expecting to get out of this.
Reading is FUNdamental.
It's been buffed to six seconds on the preview server. 4+1+1 = 6.
Dang lad i dont understand washa toking about... ((
I have a 15k with Ioun Stone MoF/THAUM CW Legion/Black Ice gear, Plaguefire chant. Transfered him to preview, respeced into the same Thaum/MoF CW just changing feats to max out pve effectivnes. and i steamroll every god darn mob on any map of high level content and heroic encounters in dwarven valley cause i get damage, i have controll with stun slow and freeze + debufing and burning stuff and lots of lifesteal to keep me up thx for large and constant burn damage.
On live server in open world pvp i easely burn TR's no matter what spec....even DC's and other CW...HR...here it's rather complicated with em....GWF GF...no sir...
So that's all i can say...
I would trade a reduction in these things -- (Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc) -- for an increase in damage. You mentioned that before 'you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions' in place of shard and now you have made it so that shard is NEVER a better option.
Thanks for the other buffs, but all we've been asking for is damage back on shard and if that were done this thread would be over except for the others asking for Renegade changes (which should also be done).
twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Personally, i stopped to use shard becouse it was mighty bugged (missed, stuck, disappear when we were stunned) but using it was really fun, sometimes i was using it to refresh my ability to control this power becouse it is really hard (probably hardest skill to learn in pvp in all game, and players were learning their combo through many many days and battles), now 33% down +66% down + all ours feats down = no damage, and sorry maby when i was fighting with another CW dmg was high but during the battle with good GWF/HR dmg was funny low, there is no problem with dmg in this skill, it is problem with paper classes with their survivabiliy. I was waiting when you fix this skill, that i can use it more often in pvp matches, but you really completely burn it down...well looks like my RoE still reigns on TAB.
Wow , Thanks for these two changes , in PvE these alone will at least boost CW dps a fair amount back up , as for Shard I can't say I am happy about losing it but fair enough ,it is painful to lose the skill but I guess it is also a reason to try something new and I am sure many appreciate the above changes to make up for the damage loss , I've had pretty much the same build in PvE for 2 modules so time for a change.
Should and shouldn't and should and shouldn't and - ye.
I'm not asking for a nerf I'm nor asking for a buff. I'm asking if it's WAI. Only the Devs can answer that question.
They should... P:
We are always looking for new models --- Borderline Fashiondolls ---
Yes SotEA is complicated power that requires skill (more so in PvP) to use and that should be rewarded but with these nerfs there is no point in using it
This shows a lack of understanding of the CWs roll and what these "balances" will accomplish there are many many posts from what I would consider veteran Players (both PvP and PvE) against these changes please listen to them as combined they have far more hours using than the devs could even hope to get.
Please listen to you players who actually play the class.
so the take away message is DONT NERF SotEA
Will we at least be getting respec tokens so we can drop Focused Wizardry, or are we all to stay at campfires from now on.
Also, when will be able to put our points back into Nightmare Wizardry so we can test it?