Shard needs more damage than it is right now on preview, in pvp on tab the ability hits 1-2k crits on players and for it being one of the few skills that requires some skill to land having it deal next to 0 damage is pathetic, please buff the ability while used on tab while limiting the players it can hit to 5, fixes it being op in pve without ruining it for the pvp community.
- [Tempzy]
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited July 2014
Based on looking at some quick ACT parses of tests against the Dread Ring dummies, Storm Spell is substantially more effective with a chill stacking control build than EoTs (ie about 10%). Also due to the continuous checks caused by Storm Spell (Icy Terrain, CoI), you proc Nightmare wizardry at levels similar to pre-mod4.
Additionally as a Renegade, you will operate at 5 feat point penalty due to your tier 2 feats, being basically worthless in PVE. The improvements to MoC is nice, but still you don't waste feat points on a daily, and hit points from energy recovery is also basically a worthless feat in PVE (that's what LS is for).
I want to say something to the new Dragonic Set items compared to the High Vizier Set and Fomorian Weapon Set.
High Vizier/Fomorian Weapon
Dragonic Set
HP
0
4820(4820/4=1205)
Power
3164
2598
Crit
0
1081
Arpen
0
849
Recovery
2626
0
Action Point Gain
0
150
Defence
523
791
Deflect
788
574
Regeneration
788
0
Life Steal
0
834
Sum
7889
8082(HP/4)
I cant understand that a Control Wizard has no Recovery on Draonic Set. The Trickster gets 1037 Recovery with Dragonic Set. Where is the logic? Tell me!Even with 150 Action Points Gain and the +10% Recharge Speed 4/4 Set Bonus (if it is also applied to your selfe) it is hard to deal with it.
Please rethink the stats. Mayby cut Arpen and Life Steal by half and transmute it into Recovery or something else. We need Recovery on our PVE High End Set.
MAELSTROM OF CHAOS doesn't go well with new dodge mechanics that allows us to cancel casting while dodging and re-cast later.
If it goes for dailies, on Preview I am able to cancel Oppressive Force, Singularity, Ice Storm and Ice knife no problem, and re-cast it right away after dodge. For MoC i loose 50% AP because tooltip says so. Please, take this 50% Action Points loss from MoC - new dodge mechanics, which is suppose to help us, for this particular daily has opposite effect.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Please can we have some resistance to Root and Stun like every other class,
please can CW gear be looked at to give a control bonus we never seem to have any.
I just watched a Hunter ranger kill 4 players vs 1 in pvp (5 total) and me, their rooting capabilities are too overpowered , we are supposed to be the controlling class.
Malestrom of Chaos needs reworking as our high end power it is far too low end.
From a PvE perspective Shield seems to be appropriate. I was doing HE's last night and kept getting killed by burst damage (lousy Deathlock Wrights). I eventually slotted shield on tab and gave it another go and while it was still tough and went slower it did a great, great job at diminishing the burst damage I was taking. Enough so to keep me alive. There were still touch and go moments, as without a 4th spell my control suffered so I was getting hit more. But it made enough of a difference that I was able to complete one where I could not without it. It was by no means overpowered as the drawbacks of not having a 4th spell were very evident and make me hesitate to use shield all the time. But, situationally, it is very useful and has its place.
I think the CW PvP builds will be lame because they all have huge problems.
As an Oppressor you will have the control to survive but not the damage to kill anything. That means that all the fights you enter against another class (except for DC), you will lose when you make a mistake. You can kite and control GWF/GF forever if you play perfectly but nobody is perfect and sooner or later the mistake will be made and you will go down. Against a TR/HR the control will not be good enough and you will die much faster than against a GWF/GF.
Basically as Oppressor you are a support class and cant do anything by yourself.
As Thaum you have the opposite problem. You have enough damage to kill other classes but not the control to survive long enough to do it. So you will still need help from other classes. This tree will require more skill to stay alive and at the same time kill stuff.
Renegade is pure support buff/debuff with no control or damage. You will debuff a few enemies and then you will die fast because you have nothing to defend yourself with. You will need a pure defensive build to stay alive to debuff stuff as long as possible.
As a TR and GF, I personally think Shield should stay the way it is. CW's have to sacrifice their Mastery slot for a defensive encounter that offers zero offensive capabilities. It's a fair trade if I dare say so myself, with all the math and situational theorycrafting aside.
Besides, no matter what CWs do they will never have Control Immunity unlike us TRs, GFs, GWFs and HRs. Not right now at least. No matter how much defense a person has in PVP, control is still king. The 15% increase in Control Resistance will help, but it doesn't break the CW's problem that they are prone to getting perma-CCed.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share a few more changes that will be hitting in the next week or two.
We still want Wizards to feel like a viable DPS class while they are specced into Thaumatuge (and a bit more group utility focused in Renegade) so we are making some buffs to feats in those trees to reinforce that.
Thaumaturge:
Transcended Master: Shard of the Endless Avalanche now deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage (up from 2/4/6/8/10%). Icy Rays now deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage when used on a single target (up from 2/4/6/8/10%) and has a 1/2/3/4/5 second shorter cooldown if used on two different targets (up from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5).
Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics now deals 100% of Weapon Damage each tick (up from 50%). Creeping Frost now deals 170% of Weapon Damage each tick (up from 85%).
Assailing Force: ICD reduced to 5 seconds (down from 15 seconds).
Renegade:
Nightmare Wizardry: When you critically strike a foe you have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance (up from 1/2/3/4/5%) to grant you and your allies Combat Advantage against the target for 12 seconds.
Phantasmal Destruction: Now has a 40% chance to activate (up from 25%).
Chaos Magic: Chaotic Nexus now grants 10% Armor Penetration and Critical Chance (up from 5%).
Chaos Magic: Chaotic Fury now grants 10% increased damage and 5% direct Life Steal (rather than adjusting your stats).
These changes should move much more of the performance into the feat trees, allowing Wizards to use their feats to more accurately define their performance and style of play.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I don't remember seeing these changes put into the patch notes on the week they were announced, although some of them were already implemented such as the cd reduction on assailant.
The tooltip on Elemental Empowerment hasn't been updated so I'm wondering if that change went through?
Shard of endless avalanche needs a drastic buff. the prone time on players is not worth the next to 75% damage loss.
heres an example. you put sheild on your tab so all incoming hits are -40% less dmg, then they are effected by your DR and tenacity. so incoming hits are then 80% less or so. and that is up 100% of the time.
---in lets say a 1 minute fight vs gwf.
shard has a 12s cooldown prones for only 4seconds and does like 1-2k crits.
so if you land that boulder on the targets head, and you blow it up for the maximum amount of time. in that 1 minute fight they are cc'd for 20s and the damage done from boulder is about 8-10k (over a minute this dmg would be easily negated by unstoppable recovery + heroic duelists set and regen)
and the remainder 40s the gwf is most likely in unstoppable/sprinting cant be CC'd and is beating on you in full force.
12k ibs, 5k takedown 8k frontline (1 rotation back every 15s or so) x4 in the minute = cw dead
2k boulder 4k chillstrike 4k icy rays 1k entangle (1 rotation back every 13s) x4/5 in the minute = 20% of the gwf health gone.
(for cws with assailing force. a 4k hit every 5 seconds or 48k dmg)
now what is more effective. turning a gwfs 25k rotation into 5k (shield) or proning a target for 4s and the hit equating to nothing.
your reasoning for nerfing shard was because it was "too good" it was the best for pvp and the best for pve. but you are replacing it with something that provides even MORE protection against damage and giving us assailing force which is probably better damage because it cant be resisted against.
the only way to prevent Control wizards from just running around in shield, facetank everything and kill people with assailing force is to bring back a large amount of damage on shard of endless avalanche. it would remove the need to run with shield in a rotation, return skillful gameplay to the class (because you need to land the shard on players for it to be most effective) and other classes (gwf/trs) would again have a chance to kill us.
Shard being nerfed does suck, but I understand where they are coming from. They are trying to remove prones from PvP. Many skills that proned no longer prone but stun players now. This was their way of removing trying to remove it from the CW, except we still will have the option to not only prone players, but aoe prone. Its a huge sacrifice in damage to gain the cc. We are now having to choose one or the other.
My biggest problem is that AOE spells still do more single target damage than many single target spells.
While testing an oppressor build for my cw at preview,i noticed that freeze wasn't working properly on Yetis and would break when they took damage from me. After latest fix, I haven't seen anything similar on other enemies(tested at IWD) and thought i report it.
Edit: It has been suggested in other posts that it is CC resistance of enemies in IWD that breaks freeze. If that's the case then it isn't a bug and seems that Yetis have very high CC resistance.However if that's the case then Cws should have some way of bypassing or penetrating a portion of enemies cc immunities , since they are now more control focused rather than damage. Perhaps if you were to ad a CC resistance ignore feature at Orb of Imposition?
Shard being nerfed does suck, but I understand where they are coming from. They are trying to remove prones from PvP. Many skills that proned no longer prone but stun players now. This was their way of removing trying to remove it from the CW, except we still will have the option to not only prone players, but aoe prone. Its a huge sacrifice in damage to gain the cc. We are now having to choose one or the other.
My biggest problem is that AOE spells still do more single target damage than many single target spells.
I don't want it to hit for 14k, all i ask is a decent 4/5k ...just not a 1k crit.
The 60% nerf/overkill is def. too much for an encounter that 2/10 of the players can land properly in a domination match.
It is not an auto-target spell, it takes a LOT of time and practice to master it.
Virus, Enemy Team.
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dingleberrytruthMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 25Arc User
I needed shield because Icewind Dale enemies have very high control resist. They break out of freeze very quickly and can do truckloads of damage before I'm able to freeze them again. From parses the Deathlock Wrights can hit for 10 - 13k with 25% damage resistance. A pack of three of them is lethal if they all break freeze at the same time.
Live or Preview, I don't use CoI/IT for its 'freezing' when soloing HEs. It's for lifesteal to sustain me till the cooldown of my actual dps encounters. Freezes are just icing for me.
Granted soloing HEs with deathlock wights would cause me to pot occasionally.
Then again I do use Endless Consumption and Severe Reaction.
Which brings to point. Dodging attacks also procs Severe Reaction. Is that going to be nerf/fixed too?
Feedback: Thaumaturge, Renegade, and Oppressor Paths
Since the latest patch I've now done several Herioc Encounters in Icewind Dale with builds in all three trees. Beforehand I tested several builds in each tree to find the best balance of control and damage for each. Then I ran HE's over and over with each to see how they stacked up.
With the Thaumaturge tree my damage is pretty consistently in the 20-24k DPS range. I can usually complete mid-level HE's, though I will die a few times. This tree path tends to be the quickest since Assailant does the best single-target damage of any of the trees. The boss will go down the fastest with this tree. Damage output seems appropriate since it is about a 40-50% reduction from my live character.
With the Renegade tree my damage is pretty consistently in the 18-22k DPS range. I am able to complete HE's but would die a fair amount. It's a hair behind Thaumaturge in solo play but would definitely be better if there were more people with me as all of them would have benefited from Nightmare Wizardry and Chaos Magic whereas Thaumaturge doesn't provide any group buffs. Combat advantage mostly makes up for the damage difference Thaumaturge's have from Assailing Force/Creeping Frost/Warped Magic in AoE situations, but it lags behind in single-target damage. Assailant is just too good there.
The Oppressor build lags behind a little in damage doing consistently 15-18k DPS. These encounters did go a little smoother as I tended to die less. It gave a bit better control with the stuns from Shatter. But it wasn't that big of a difference. Now that Freeze has been fixed so that it doesn't break with damage a Thaumaturge or Renegade can slot Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, and Orb Of Imposition (and can also grab Chilling Control from the Oppressor tree for Sudden Storm if they want) and get 90% of the control an Oppressor has while doing better damage. The difference in control will be negligible in a dungeon run as the low control resist of most enemies will make them frozen sitting ducks for the party to hammer and they likely won't live long enough to be stunned by Shatter. The Shatter stun will be superfluous.
While I was most likely to choose the Oppressor tree a few weeks ago now I doubt I will since every tree can control very, very well with the right spells and passives slotted. Thaumaturge will be the most versatile class - will do good AoE damage, good damage to single targets, and will be by far the most viable PvP choice. Renegade will be perfectly fine solo but won't be as good as Thaumaturge in single-target situations which includes PvP. It will be for people who want smoother/faster dungeon runs where they help out the party more. Oppressor won't be picked much. The control is great, but it's more control than than is needed in most situations and I think most will opt for a significant bump in damage in exchange for the little extra control Shatter gives.
I did a half an hour test run on Sharandar and İcewind Pass.
Ability layout: Ice Storm+Oppressive Force.... Tab: Chill Strike Encounters: Sudden Storm+ıcy Terrain+Steal Time
Some notes that I want to specially mention. Shard of Endless Avalanche: This spell does no longer belong to my rotation. As a CW who's used to 30-40k crits wtih shard, current damage (even with evocation and T4 thaum feat) is lower then 10k. I believe 4 second stun doesnt make it up for the damage nerf in PVE. We have better alternatives for control now.
Assailant: Extremely satisfied with this feat, can deal more damage then my encounters. Since the direction of new PVE content is towards fewer but stroger adds, this is very useful, can compensate AOE damage nerfs to a degree provided new content continues to follow this trend. (of which I support) Frozen: The change to frozen effect is easily noticable and welcomed. Icy terrain: Damage is insignificant but with the utility it brings to my rotation it replaced underperforming Shard indefinitely. Faster ticks plus frozen not breaking greatly helps thaum wizards to keep adds at bay in solo play, 4 second shard prone is not necessary. Not to mention storm spell and assailant procs. One thing though, not being able to cast it afar forces us to be on the front line, which is not a position I prefer in dungeons. Since GFs probably will get all the aggro, I may be forced to stand next to them to freeze adds rushing to them. I believe it should be at least a mid-ranged encounter, not personal burst.
My conclusion is spell storm thaum is nowhere close to being dead. I lost approximately %40-50 of my AOE damage and I may not be topping paingiver in mod 4 but I'm fine with that. However assailant will shine in solo content (I soloed HE's pretty easily, even bear riders burn down in a few seconds) and not add infested content like kessel and lair lastmauth. The feat is working fine, longer cooldown or lower damage will absolutely break it. It's not needed anyway since it's %50 effective in PVP.
Make the current tabbed version of this power be the normal version, and in the tab the area effect is doubled.
I don't feel like putting this on tab slot because the location issue seems to be "easily" solved by just walking to the target location. It just don't feel worth like a tab mechanic... for me, at least; looks more like a QoL change. I can do much more with other tabbed powers than Icy Terrain currently.
Steal Time and Sudden Storm already have this mechanic that you have to walk to the target and then use the power, and it already feels very unfun for a ranged class.
(´･ ω ･`)
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lcwwpyjhjsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback : Weapon Artifact
Not relevant, but how could this At-Will bonus benefit Ray of Frost?
Continuous of casting Ray of frost in live server only required 3.7-3.8sec total till fully freeze (On a Thaumaturge Feat without Glacial Movement feat)
The additional stack of chill after 1sec might be useful, but it will even further reduce the total time until freeze status with only 3.1sec required. 2nd bonus after 4sec of continuous casting Ray of Frost brings no beneficial at all.
Hi all, i've been testing extensively on preview and have to admit that Sudden Storm feels lacking somewhat. It's damage is nerfed, it's cooldown increased but its area of effect hasn't been increased to compensate. With the chilling control feat you get 5 stacks of chill,however you have to consider that it takes precise aiming to fully utilize it and a feat slot for the chill effect. All in all i would ask to consider increasing its width radius,maybe to a larger cone, so that it's easier to aim it. I'm not really concerned about the distance it travels since i always get upclose and personal with monsters,but in order for it to function as a control power more a wide area of effect is needed. In the past its high damage output justified the pain of aiming,but not any more even when tabbed. As for Icy Terrain ,since it's more of a utility spell rather than a damage one, i would ask you to increase its effect radius by at least 50% - 60% and,if you must, nerf its damage to balance it. I only use it to freeze things anyway and i suspect the same for other cws too
I don't want it to hit for 14k, all i ask is a decent 4/5k ...just not a 1k crit.
The 60% nerf/overkill is def. too much for an encounter that 2/10 of the players can land properly in a domination match.
It is not an auto-target spell, it takes a LOT of time and practice to master it.
This exactly! don't ruin shard in pvp and give us some of our damage back..
- [Tempzy]
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charkanramonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 51Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback - Shatter Strike
With the redevelopment of the freeze, the feat shatter strike should also to be remodeled. Should increase the freezing time and provide armor check penalty due to the heat shock.
Immune targets should take constant damage from the burns caused by the cold.
I agree with v1rus89, silpharian93 and all the other CWs that posted about the nerf on the shard.
The shard is the absolute hardest encounter to use for a CW in PvP. It should do some damage (on TABB) when it requires so much skill, timing and precision to use.
Repel and Shield push effect can STILL be deflected.
When Shield is tabbed, it doesn't seem to reduce the CC durations.
I currently don't know why would someone use Magic Missiles, since it's inferior/unusable for any situation, single target or AoE, with the target in control immune or not, high DR or low DR. I'd like to ask the devs to reconsider about the nerf that was deployed to this, or think about a way to make Ray of Frost, Chilling Cloud, Storm Pillar and Scorching Burst be less interesting for single target, or make Magic Missiles be more interesting to be used on control immune/high DR targets.
CW have NO damage. That's basically the long and short of it. Every useful encounter, every at will that isn't complete s**t, all our feats heroic feats have been reduced to a FRACTION OF HEROIC FEATS OF OTHER CLASSES, shield has been re-nufed and now it's impossible to 1v1 any class and make it a winning fight, (it's ALWAYS A LOSING FIGHT), aswell as having the MAX HIT OF ANY ATTACK THAT I'VE DONE BE A 4000 crit ice knife, with many damage bonuses WITH 3x plaguefire & 2x RoE debuff.
This may or may not be a post made in anger, but the CW has no place playing PvP in mod4 if these bias changes are made. Every damage bonus heroic feat has been nurfed to almost half, while the heroic feats of EVERY... OTHER... CLASS remains the same.... Not to mention the nurfs on all the encounter and at will abilities, THAT HIT ONE TARGET AT A TIME and not multiple targets, which is why CWs are so op in dungeons right now. WE NEVER HAD THE SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE TO COMPETE WITH ANY OTHER CLASS AND NOW IT'S EVEN LESS SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE. Assailing Force now deals a whopping 3k on most players, and our encounters deal 1-3k now, compared to the massive hits done by other players. It's just like CWs in mod3 struggling and giving up playing because how hard it is to actually play a CW. I'd bet that if any of the devs logged onto my character on the preview and tried to fight a few random people they would lose every time, and not because they don't even play the game... CWs have always been the under-dog and it's only more obvious with the Mod4 changes, and the devs made it more obvious when they reduced almost all single target damage, while leaving multi target damage much more intact. It's simply not fair to the few remaining serious PvPers who still like the CW class and now are basically told, "So guys we decided to make the CW less effective in dungeons and more in-line with other classes! -Chill strike nurf, Entangling force nurf, Magic missile nurf-" --Because EVERYone uses those types of abilities in dungeons, that have almost 20 mobs per area, and those abilities affect one thing at a time. It's frankly disgusting from a players point of view how obscene and short-sighted a majority of the nurfs have been.
All single target abilities need to be how they are on live, and even on live, they don't do nearly as much damage as the other classes. And all the multi target abilities should get nurfed. (just kidding shard of endless avalanche already got put into the grave lol)
This probably was just a rage post but it's defiantly right on the mark when it comes to what you devs have done with the class lol
-Almost the same in dungeons
-Worse in PvP then mod3
-All around depressing to continue to play this class
-Can't be arsed to try and lug it along like GF's lugged along in mod2/3
Two(and a half) things that can be done to make CWs playable and enjoyable
-take away the single target damage nurfs to ablities commonly used in PvP (they are horse s**t and have no reason to be used anymore besides leveling up to 60)
-reduce the damage on abilities commonly used in PvE to overpower the other classes with AoE damage
-make it so we can rely on our encounters again instead of a single (nurfed) feat (assailing force)
Shield will go down to retaining 25% of its effectiveness while destabilized. It dose this in 1 step in normal slots and 2 steps in Mastery Slots.
Feedback: Shield
This change reverts it back to useless. When I give up my mastery slot I'm giving up more than 25% of my potential damage output. I'm not going to trade out an attacking encounter for Shield unless it increases my survivability more than it reduces my damage. Also, I'm giving up more than 25% of my incoming lifesteal by taking an attacking encounter off tab.
CW's are still punching bags on the preview server. Log on as a CW and head over to the PvP area of Icewind Pass and see for yourself.
Here's a thread started yesterday by GWF's upset about how bad they are in PvP in Mod 4 with videos as evidence.
Most of this is due to gentlemancrush making changes to the CW based on feedback from GWF/GF who obviously have ulterior motives , he buffs something , GWF/GF see that they aren't as effective or efficient against CW anymore so they come here and whine he renerfs ,its idiotic.
Now some GWF have started whining they want Takedown to be given back it's prone , who's willing to bet gentlemancrush caves in and pampers to them?
This was pretty disappointing to see. As soon as CW's became competitive with GWF's, they leap into our thread and get things re-nerfed.
The fact that people were now complaining about getting killed 1v1 by a CW told me that they were moving in the right direction. It actually gave me hope I'd be able to PvP more on my CW without feeling like I was weighing the team down.
People of classes that have infinite Deflection and infinite Control Immune state and amazing survivability powers are upset because there's a power that reduces the damage received by a class that takes brutal damage by 35%.
The fun part is that the other classes have damage and we don't. In other words, the difference between the Shield pre-nerf and the Shield post-nerf is that before we could stay alive without being able to do nothing, and after we can't stay alive, unable to do nothing.
And to add to this, Renegade is the ultimate looser. Speaking of which:
- minimize EotS ICD, to help Renegade's DPS. No CW who is used to DPS through crit+cha+CA will become buffy! They will simply switch to the one and only DPS tree.
- or give Renegades kind of specialization that will allow them to cast encounters, at wills and dailies significantly faster then other trees (by reducing ICD, CD and casting time).
For CWs in general regardless of tree chosen:
- empower single target spells (for PvP purposes).
- make Shard damage significant again (for PvP).
- if you nerf shield, at least make it reflect some damage. This is really ridiculous that GF chock full of HP has reflecting damage skill, and squishy CW has nothing of this sort.If I remember well, D&D wizards have two shields (blue and red), both reflecting some portion of damage to the attackers. Make normal shield blue, tabbed one red.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Comments
Based on looking at some quick ACT parses of tests against the Dread Ring dummies, Storm Spell is substantially more effective with a chill stacking control build than EoTs (ie about 10%). Also due to the continuous checks caused by Storm Spell (Icy Terrain, CoI), you proc Nightmare wizardry at levels similar to pre-mod4.
Additionally as a Renegade, you will operate at 5 feat point penalty due to your tier 2 feats, being basically worthless in PVE. The improvements to MoC is nice, but still you don't waste feat points on a daily, and hit points from energy recovery is also basically a worthless feat in PVE (that's what LS is for).
High Vizier/Fomorian Weapon
Dragonic Set
HP
0
4820 (4820/4=1205)
Power
3164
2598
Crit
0
1081
Arpen
0
849
Recovery
2626
0
Action Point Gain
0
150
Defence
523
791
Deflect
788
574
Regeneration
788
0
Life Steal
0
834
Sum
7889
8082 (HP/4)
I cant understand that a Control Wizard has no Recovery on Draonic Set. The Trickster gets 1037 Recovery with Dragonic Set. Where is the logic? Tell me! Even with 150 Action Points Gain and the +10% Recharge Speed 4/4 Set Bonus (if it is also applied to your selfe) it is hard to deal with it.
Please rethink the stats. Mayby cut Arpen and Life Steal by half and transmute it into Recovery or something else. We need Recovery on our PVE High End Set.
If it goes for dailies, on Preview I am able to cancel Oppressive Force, Singularity, Ice Storm and Ice knife no problem, and re-cast it right away after dodge. For MoC i loose 50% AP because tooltip says so. Please, take this 50% Action Points loss from MoC - new dodge mechanics, which is suppose to help us, for this particular daily has opposite effect.
please can CW gear be looked at to give a control bonus we never seem to have any.
I just watched a Hunter ranger kill 4 players vs 1 in pvp (5 total) and me, their rooting capabilities are too overpowered , we are supposed to be the controlling class.
Malestrom of Chaos needs reworking as our high end power it is far too low end.
From a PvE perspective Shield seems to be appropriate. I was doing HE's last night and kept getting killed by burst damage (lousy Deathlock Wrights). I eventually slotted shield on tab and gave it another go and while it was still tough and went slower it did a great, great job at diminishing the burst damage I was taking. Enough so to keep me alive. There were still touch and go moments, as without a 4th spell my control suffered so I was getting hit more. But it made enough of a difference that I was able to complete one where I could not without it. It was by no means overpowered as the drawbacks of not having a 4th spell were very evident and make me hesitate to use shield all the time. But, situationally, it is very useful and has its place.
As an Oppressor you will have the control to survive but not the damage to kill anything. That means that all the fights you enter against another class (except for DC), you will lose when you make a mistake. You can kite and control GWF/GF forever if you play perfectly but nobody is perfect and sooner or later the mistake will be made and you will go down. Against a TR/HR the control will not be good enough and you will die much faster than against a GWF/GF.
Basically as Oppressor you are a support class and cant do anything by yourself.
As Thaum you have the opposite problem. You have enough damage to kill other classes but not the control to survive long enough to do it. So you will still need help from other classes. This tree will require more skill to stay alive and at the same time kill stuff.
Renegade is pure support buff/debuff with no control or damage. You will debuff a few enemies and then you will die fast because you have nothing to defend yourself with. You will need a pure defensive build to stay alive to debuff stuff as long as possible.
Besides, no matter what CWs do they will never have Control Immunity unlike us TRs, GFs, GWFs and HRs. Not right now at least. No matter how much defense a person has in PVP, control is still king. The 15% increase in Control Resistance will help, but it doesn't break the CW's problem that they are prone to getting perma-CCed.
I don't remember seeing these changes put into the patch notes on the week they were announced, although some of them were already implemented such as the cd reduction on assailant.
The tooltip on Elemental Empowerment hasn't been updated so I'm wondering if that change went through?
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#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
heres an example. you put sheild on your tab so all incoming hits are -40% less dmg, then they are effected by your DR and tenacity. so incoming hits are then 80% less or so. and that is up 100% of the time.
---in lets say a 1 minute fight vs gwf.
shard has a 12s cooldown prones for only 4seconds and does like 1-2k crits.
so if you land that boulder on the targets head, and you blow it up for the maximum amount of time. in that 1 minute fight they are cc'd for 20s and the damage done from boulder is about 8-10k (over a minute this dmg would be easily negated by unstoppable recovery + heroic duelists set and regen)
and the remainder 40s the gwf is most likely in unstoppable/sprinting cant be CC'd and is beating on you in full force.
12k ibs, 5k takedown 8k frontline (1 rotation back every 15s or so) x4 in the minute = cw dead
2k boulder 4k chillstrike 4k icy rays 1k entangle (1 rotation back every 13s) x4/5 in the minute = 20% of the gwf health gone.
(for cws with assailing force. a 4k hit every 5 seconds or 48k dmg)
now what is more effective. turning a gwfs 25k rotation into 5k (shield) or proning a target for 4s and the hit equating to nothing.
your reasoning for nerfing shard was because it was "too good" it was the best for pvp and the best for pve. but you are replacing it with something that provides even MORE protection against damage and giving us assailing force which is probably better damage because it cant be resisted against.
the only way to prevent Control wizards from just running around in shield, facetank everything and kill people with assailing force is to bring back a large amount of damage on shard of endless avalanche. it would remove the need to run with shield in a rotation, return skillful gameplay to the class (because you need to land the shard on players for it to be most effective) and other classes (gwf/trs) would again have a chance to kill us.
My biggest problem is that AOE spells still do more single target damage than many single target spells.
While testing an oppressor build for my cw at preview,i noticed that freeze wasn't working properly on Yetis and would break when they took damage from me. After latest fix, I haven't seen anything similar on other enemies(tested at IWD) and thought i report it.
Edit: It has been suggested in other posts that it is CC resistance of enemies in IWD that breaks freeze. If that's the case then it isn't a bug and seems that Yetis have very high CC resistance. However if that's the case then Cws should have some way of bypassing or penetrating a portion of enemies cc immunities , since they are now more control focused rather than damage. Perhaps if you were to ad a CC resistance ignore feature at Orb of Imposition?
I don't want it to hit for 14k, all i ask is a decent 4/5k ...just not a 1k crit.
The 60% nerf/overkill is def. too much for an encounter that 2/10 of the players can land properly in a domination match.
It is not an auto-target spell, it takes a LOT of time and practice to master it.
Live or Preview, I don't use CoI/IT for its 'freezing' when soloing HEs. It's for lifesteal to sustain me till the cooldown of my actual dps encounters. Freezes are just icing for me.
Granted soloing HEs with deathlock wights would cause me to pot occasionally.
Then again I do use Endless Consumption and Severe Reaction.
Which brings to point. Dodging attacks also procs Severe Reaction. Is that going to be nerf/fixed too?
Since the latest patch I've now done several Herioc Encounters in Icewind Dale with builds in all three trees. Beforehand I tested several builds in each tree to find the best balance of control and damage for each. Then I ran HE's over and over with each to see how they stacked up.
With the Thaumaturge tree my damage is pretty consistently in the 20-24k DPS range. I can usually complete mid-level HE's, though I will die a few times. This tree path tends to be the quickest since Assailant does the best single-target damage of any of the trees. The boss will go down the fastest with this tree. Damage output seems appropriate since it is about a 40-50% reduction from my live character.
With the Renegade tree my damage is pretty consistently in the 18-22k DPS range. I am able to complete HE's but would die a fair amount. It's a hair behind Thaumaturge in solo play but would definitely be better if there were more people with me as all of them would have benefited from Nightmare Wizardry and Chaos Magic whereas Thaumaturge doesn't provide any group buffs. Combat advantage mostly makes up for the damage difference Thaumaturge's have from Assailing Force/Creeping Frost/Warped Magic in AoE situations, but it lags behind in single-target damage. Assailant is just too good there.
The Oppressor build lags behind a little in damage doing consistently 15-18k DPS. These encounters did go a little smoother as I tended to die less. It gave a bit better control with the stuns from Shatter. But it wasn't that big of a difference. Now that Freeze has been fixed so that it doesn't break with damage a Thaumaturge or Renegade can slot Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, and Orb Of Imposition (and can also grab Chilling Control from the Oppressor tree for Sudden Storm if they want) and get 90% of the control an Oppressor has while doing better damage. The difference in control will be negligible in a dungeon run as the low control resist of most enemies will make them frozen sitting ducks for the party to hammer and they likely won't live long enough to be stunned by Shatter. The Shatter stun will be superfluous.
While I was most likely to choose the Oppressor tree a few weeks ago now I doubt I will since every tree can control very, very well with the right spells and passives slotted. Thaumaturge will be the most versatile class - will do good AoE damage, good damage to single targets, and will be by far the most viable PvP choice. Renegade will be perfectly fine solo but won't be as good as Thaumaturge in single-target situations which includes PvP. It will be for people who want smoother/faster dungeon runs where they help out the party more. Oppressor won't be picked much. The control is great, but it's more control than than is needed in most situations and I think most will opt for a significant bump in damage in exchange for the little extra control Shatter gives.
I did a half an hour test run on Sharandar and İcewind Pass.
Ability layout: Ice Storm+Oppressive Force.... Tab: Chill Strike Encounters: Sudden Storm+ıcy Terrain+Steal Time
Some notes that I want to specially mention.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: This spell does no longer belong to my rotation. As a CW who's used to 30-40k crits wtih shard, current damage (even with evocation and T4 thaum feat) is lower then 10k. I believe 4 second stun doesnt make it up for the damage nerf in PVE. We have better alternatives for control now.
Assailant: Extremely satisfied with this feat, can deal more damage then my encounters. Since the direction of new PVE content is towards fewer but stroger adds, this is very useful, can compensate AOE damage nerfs to a degree provided new content continues to follow this trend. (of which I support)
Frozen: The change to frozen effect is easily noticable and welcomed.
Icy terrain: Damage is insignificant but with the utility it brings to my rotation it replaced underperforming Shard indefinitely. Faster ticks plus frozen not breaking greatly helps thaum wizards to keep adds at bay in solo play, 4 second shard prone is not necessary. Not to mention storm spell and assailant procs. One thing though, not being able to cast it afar forces us to be on the front line, which is not a position I prefer in dungeons. Since GFs probably will get all the aggro, I may be forced to stand next to them to freeze adds rushing to them. I believe it should be at least a mid-ranged encounter, not personal burst.
My conclusion is spell storm thaum is nowhere close to being dead. I lost approximately %40-50 of my AOE damage and I may not be topping paingiver in mod 4 but I'm fine with that. However assailant will shine in solo content (I soloed HE's pretty easily, even bear riders burn down in a few seconds) and not add infested content like kessel and lair lastmauth. The feat is working fine, longer cooldown or lower damage will absolutely break it. It's not needed anyway since it's %50 effective in PVP.
I don't feel like putting this on tab slot because the location issue seems to be "easily" solved by just walking to the target location. It just don't feel worth like a tab mechanic... for me, at least; looks more like a QoL change. I can do much more with other tabbed powers than Icy Terrain currently.
Steal Time and Sudden Storm already have this mechanic that you have to walk to the target and then use the power, and it already feels very unfun for a ranged class.
Not relevant, but how could this At-Will bonus benefit Ray of Frost?
Continuous of casting Ray of frost in live server only required 3.7-3.8sec total till fully freeze (On a Thaumaturge Feat without Glacial Movement feat)
The additional stack of chill after 1sec might be useful, but it will even further reduce the total time until freeze status with only 3.1sec required.
2nd bonus after 4sec of continuous casting Ray of Frost brings no beneficial at all.
Hi all, i've been testing extensively on preview and have to admit that Sudden Storm feels lacking somewhat. It's damage is nerfed, it's cooldown increased but its area of effect hasn't been increased to compensate. With the chilling control feat you get 5 stacks of chill,however you have to consider that it takes precise aiming to fully utilize it and a feat slot for the chill effect. All in all i would ask to consider increasing its width radius,maybe to a larger cone, so that it's easier to aim it. I'm not really concerned about the distance it travels since i always get upclose and personal with monsters,but in order for it to function as a control power more a wide area of effect is needed. In the past its high damage output justified the pain of aiming,but not any more even when tabbed. As for Icy Terrain ,since it's more of a utility spell rather than a damage one, i would ask you to increase its effect radius by at least 50% - 60% and,if you must, nerf its damage to balance it. I only use it to freeze things anyway and i suspect the same for other cws too
This exactly! don't ruin shard in pvp and give us some of our damage back..
With the redevelopment of the freeze, the feat shatter strike should also to be remodeled. Should increase the freezing time and provide armor check penalty due to the heat shock.
Immune targets should take constant damage from the burns caused by the cold.
The shard is the absolute hardest encounter to use for a CW in PvP. It should do some damage (on TABB) when it requires so much skill, timing and precision to use.
When Shield is tabbed, it doesn't seem to reduce the CC durations.
I currently don't know why would someone use Magic Missiles, since it's inferior/unusable for any situation, single target or AoE, with the target in control immune or not, high DR or low DR. I'd like to ask the devs to reconsider about the nerf that was deployed to this, or think about a way to make Ray of Frost, Chilling Cloud, Storm Pillar and Scorching Burst be less interesting for single target, or make Magic Missiles be more interesting to be used on control immune/high DR targets.
CW have NO damage. That's basically the long and short of it. Every useful encounter, every at will that isn't complete s**t, all our feats heroic feats have been reduced to a FRACTION OF HEROIC FEATS OF OTHER CLASSES, shield has been re-nufed and now it's impossible to 1v1 any class and make it a winning fight, (it's ALWAYS A LOSING FIGHT), aswell as having the MAX HIT OF ANY ATTACK THAT I'VE DONE BE A 4000 crit ice knife, with many damage bonuses WITH 3x plaguefire & 2x RoE debuff.
This may or may not be a post made in anger, but the CW has no place playing PvP in mod4 if these bias changes are made. Every damage bonus heroic feat has been nurfed to almost half, while the heroic feats of EVERY... OTHER... CLASS remains the same.... Not to mention the nurfs on all the encounter and at will abilities, THAT HIT ONE TARGET AT A TIME and not multiple targets, which is why CWs are so op in dungeons right now. WE NEVER HAD THE SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE TO COMPETE WITH ANY OTHER CLASS AND NOW IT'S EVEN LESS SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE. Assailing Force now deals a whopping 3k on most players, and our encounters deal 1-3k now, compared to the massive hits done by other players. It's just like CWs in mod3 struggling and giving up playing because how hard it is to actually play a CW. I'd bet that if any of the devs logged onto my character on the preview and tried to fight a few random people they would lose every time, and not because they don't even play the game... CWs have always been the under-dog and it's only more obvious with the Mod4 changes, and the devs made it more obvious when they reduced almost all single target damage, while leaving multi target damage much more intact. It's simply not fair to the few remaining serious PvPers who still like the CW class and now are basically told, "So guys we decided to make the CW less effective in dungeons and more in-line with other classes! -Chill strike nurf, Entangling force nurf, Magic missile nurf-" --Because EVERYone uses those types of abilities in dungeons, that have almost 20 mobs per area, and those abilities affect one thing at a time. It's frankly disgusting from a players point of view how obscene and short-sighted a majority of the nurfs have been.
All single target abilities need to be how they are on live, and even on live, they don't do nearly as much damage as the other classes. And all the multi target abilities should get nurfed. (just kidding shard of endless avalanche already got put into the grave lol)
This probably was just a rage post but it's defiantly right on the mark when it comes to what you devs have done with the class lol
-Almost the same in dungeons
-Worse in PvP then mod3
-All around depressing to continue to play this class
-Can't be arsed to try and lug it along like GF's lugged along in mod2/3
Two(and a half) things that can be done to make CWs playable and enjoyable
-take away the single target damage nurfs to ablities commonly used in PvP (they are horse s**t and have no reason to be used anymore besides leveling up to 60)
-reduce the damage on abilities commonly used in PvE to overpower the other classes with AoE damage
-make it so we can rely on our encounters again instead of a single (nurfed) feat (assailing force)
post purely focus on pvp
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Feedback: Shield
This change reverts it back to useless. When I give up my mastery slot I'm giving up more than 25% of my potential damage output. I'm not going to trade out an attacking encounter for Shield unless it increases my survivability more than it reduces my damage. Also, I'm giving up more than 25% of my incoming lifesteal by taking an attacking encounter off tab.
CW's are still punching bags on the preview server. Log on as a CW and head over to the PvP area of Icewind Pass and see for yourself.
Here's a thread started yesterday by GWF's upset about how bad they are in PvP in Mod 4 with videos as evidence.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?717311-GWF-vs-other-class&p=8522961&viewfull=1#post8522961
Notice: no videos against CW's. It's because CW's still aren't a problem for most other classes in PvP.
This was pretty disappointing to see. As soon as CW's became competitive with GWF's, they leap into our thread and get things re-nerfed.
The fact that people were now complaining about getting killed 1v1 by a CW told me that they were moving in the right direction. It actually gave me hope I'd be able to PvP more on my CW without feeling like I was weighing the team down.
Oh well, I'll just stick to PvE.
People of classes that have infinite Deflection and infinite Control Immune state and amazing survivability powers are upset because there's a power that reduces the damage received by a class that takes brutal damage by 35%.
The fun part is that the other classes have damage and we don't. In other words, the difference between the Shield pre-nerf and the Shield post-nerf is that before we could stay alive without being able to do nothing, and after we can't stay alive, unable to do nothing.
And to add to this, Renegade is the ultimate looser. Speaking of which:
- minimize EotS ICD, to help Renegade's DPS. No CW who is used to DPS through crit+cha+CA will become buffy! They will simply switch to the one and only DPS tree.
- or give Renegades kind of specialization that will allow them to cast encounters, at wills and dailies significantly faster then other trees (by reducing ICD, CD and casting time).
For CWs in general regardless of tree chosen:
- empower single target spells (for PvP purposes).
- make Shard damage significant again (for PvP).
- if you nerf shield, at least make it reflect some damage. This is really ridiculous that GF chock full of HP has reflecting damage skill, and squishy CW has nothing of this sort.If I remember well, D&D wizards have two shields (blue and red), both reflecting some portion of damage to the attackers. Make normal shield blue, tabbed one red.