...
Here is another one for you:
Ubiquitous shield, -25% damage against you by foes who have CA against you.
There are others but I will not educate you pertaining to the class.
...
aetharas:
That is partly wrong, as Ubiquitous Shield just reduces the effect of Combat Advantage by up to 25% but not the whole damage.
Apologize if my comment was misleading, yes it reduces the added damage that CA gives your opponent by -25%.
Now on to other comments made here, there are some loose tongues, (fingers) here getting rather insulting to other players (you know who u are synagy or whatever), I don't care whether you agree with people or not be polite or don't post.
There are other ways to play a GF, your build isn't the made all be all you are trying to make it out to be, just because some of us do not PvP doesn't mean our build is of lesser importance then yours.
Other posters here have discovered what I did including: Elve, Ctf4void, aiulian, Mfgamesys and I believe embracemysword( if I left anyone out my apologies). There is a major difference between a hit from a GF packing 10-11k power and one only packing 4.5-5k power that even with the +25% damage increase is not enough to replace the loss in damage we will deal.
And crit, pffft that's for rogues, we deal flat damage, constant damage, sure a crit is nice but crit is a variable not to be counted upon, flat high output damage is constant, that's this classes feat and mainstay. If you build a GF that has to rely on crits to stay alive and to deal damage you should have made a rogue.
I do not care what they (the developers) do with the shield, I never use it, my shield bar is always full so I have a constant +100% power for my strikes, not after being hit 5 times, but right from the start so my first strike, Yes Lunging strike, hits hard, it is followed by tide of iron to further knock down their defense which allows my following strikes to hit even harder. I know I am going to get hit, heck the more the merrier but know I am going to hit back harder, that is the basis of this build and reckless attacker in its old form is what made this build.
In mod 3 power was changed to scale damage as power was increased, so don't add something in one mod then turn around and completely nerf it in the next release, and changing reckless attacker to what is being discussed is just that, a nerf!
I just did some pvp in the preview and while the guard meter is working, the 80% reduction not so much, since it also procs the weapon enchants of the enemy. I tested it against HR and a TR and even while blocking suffered considerable damage. In the end, it doesn't matter how long the guard lasts if it can't protect you from damage.
It works well for PvE, the duration feel a little long but I guess it was for my guard increases from gear and boons (protector build plus purified black ice gear), also, looks like the 80% reduction was removed from PvE (wich is for the best in my opinion and should be removed from pvp too).
Hush little girlie, you don't even use tide of iron. Don't make yourself bigger than you actually are. In the end, regardless of enchantments and gear intelligence always wins and you are clearly lacking in that aspect to an extent, that you are unable to recognize it, yourself. Knight's challenge is by far better than spamming prones, because that is what's considered nubish, not the other way around. Premades don't mean jack, if the average IQ in the teams is below 60, btw.
Tide of Iron is my main at-will artard. Knight's Challenge is cheese and will get you nowhere in a premade. GF's can't spam prones anymore, the durations are not long enough. You use your prones to position your enemy so that you and your team can kill them faster. I really don't understand why you keep this up. Stick to factual debate rather QQ'ing because you don't know how to play the class. Even better, PM and we'll set up a premade and see which GF helps the team more. For PINKS! Loser has to quit playing his GF
Freshour, you and your team mate from syergy or whatever are the ones that have come in here and tried portraying yourselves as god, knowing everything about the class and no one else knows anything. You two have made insulting remarks to other members here on multiple occasions, if a mod doesn't come in here then I ll make dang sure to write one and ask them to step in here and discuss your lack of politeness.
With the change to reckless there is already a growing concern of mine that most gear that is meant for power stacking is going to be left by the way side. With the current capstone to be making the most out of it you go for corrupt armor, timeless, or profound conq. But with this change to be made for being hit to gain the damage all this armor becomes almost scrap. All of these armor sets have been made in mind of the reckless attacker feat so that we can get our damage up. The other concern is that now the bonus healing from power stacking is gone as well with this change which will affect lifesteal.
My suggestion for getting our damage up without making a few gear sets invalid.
Reckless attacker still doubles power but upon being hit gain critical strike 2% per stack(up to 5) this would be a buff of the current live capstone. While not making a few gear sets invalid due to the fact that building tanky is a better option when going the conq path as it will only add flat dmg which does not rely on gear at all unlike the current live version. I would even be open to the critical strike being lowered(to 1.5% or 1%) even but keeping the double power stacking as with the new duration of block it would be perfect with a second or two more added.
This suggestion is due to that fact that someone who doesn't stack power will get a giant buff without having to stack power if at all. Yes other capstones give straight dmg but this will lead to heavy tank specs going who have around 2500 power which is a 10% buff when comparing to the live capstone. This is a call for balance as this feat will have guardian fighters destroying people when they build tank and dish out a ton more damage than normal.
Also let us not forget some classes are getting their damage nerfed so then this would become a fotm class for certain reasons and thus require a nerf this is to avoid doing 1 step forward 2 steps back.
Freshour, you and your team mate from syergy or whatever are the ones that have come in here and tried portraying yourselves as god, knowing everything about the class and no one else knows anything. You two have made insulting remarks to other members here on multiple occasions, if a mod doesn't come in here then I ll make dang sure to write one and ask them to step in here and discuss your lack of politeness.
To correct you - I only pointed out your ignorance, that is different than directly insulting you. You see, I am trying to give productive changes. I see this thing called "the big picture" - I mean this with respect, but if they listened to your changes, we would have the same GF as mod 3. That is a GF that sucks, the lowest the class has ever been, and you want that for us. I am trying everything I can, sarcasm, no sarcasm, insults, productive and constructive criticism you name it, EVERYTHING. To get you guys to realize how wrong some of you are. I don't mean everyone. But anyone who says the capstone should go back is wrong. Anyone who says the block should be reverted to the old block is wrong. The duration of the old block + the capstone sucked. It allowed you to use Knight's Challenge with no skill at all - move on and figure out how to play.
So there, get a dev, please. But at the end of the day. Which ideas are they listening to? Or better wording, whose ideas are their changes closer to? Are you saying the Dev's have no clue what they are doing? Or is it that they can see where we were, and where they want us to be?
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jpfm101Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited July 2014
I'm just going to leave here a simple sugestion that may make the Protector tree more appealing:
Why don't we change the Protector's tree capstone feat so that in addition to reducing the attacker's damage, it also enhances block so that it blocks 100% of the incoming damage?
I'm just going to leave here a simple sugestion that may make the Protector tree more appealing:
Why don't we change the Protector's tree capstone feat so that in addition to reducing the attacker's damage, it also enhances block so that it blocks 100% of the incoming damage?
It's just a simple sugestion, no flaming please.
What do you guys think?
Thats actually a good idea but since the class will only block 80% maybe the protectors feat could make it 90% because 100% seems overpowered compared to 80% now lol. 10% more seems like a good buff to add to the existing one anyway and will make protector tree a little better.
I'm just going to leave here a simple sugestion that may make the Protector tree more appealing:
Why don't we change the Protector's tree capstone feat so that in addition to reducing the attacker's damage, it also enhances block so that it blocks 100% of the incoming damage?
It's just a simple sugestion, no flaming please.
What do you guys think?
Once the proper dr is being applied this may be less of a concern imo not saying its bad but as of now with prot spec you can keep block up 100% in combat with shield slam.
Once the proper dr is being applied this may be less of a concern imo not saying its bad but as of now with prot spec you can keep block up 100% in combat with shield slam.
its s shame because thats not really op in pvp since no one just stands still lol but in pve it is op but i dont want it to change since im a pvp player it is nice being able to get a little bit of my shield back with a hit.
I just did some pvp in the preview and while the guard meter is working, the 80% reduction not so much, since it also procs the weapon enchants of the enemy. I tested it against HR and a TR and even while blocking suffered considerable damage. In the end, it doesn't matter how long the guard lasts if it can't protect you from damage.
It works well for PvE, the duration feel a little long but I guess it was for my guard increases from gear and boons (protector build plus purified black ice gear), also, looks like the 80% reduction was removed from PvE (wich is for the best in my opinion and should be removed from pvp too).
Guard is bugged!!!, IDK how many times we have to say it, if you have 22% DR from tenacity and 51% DR then you should receive the 27% of the damage they do to you, if the HR is doing an Aimed Shot and it does 20K, then they will deal just 5.4K damage to you, and if you are blocking the damage you receive will be just the 5.4% the Raw damage, so the 5.4K should be reduced to 1080, it could be even reduced to 540 if you deflect it (my regen with heal depression it's 2x times that), the problem is that the DR is capped at 80%, so you will receive the 20% of any damage at the moment, that's why you suffered considerable damage, when that bug is corrected you will receive like 3 or 4 times less while you are guarding!!!.
Reckless attacker is buged, you can only get 1 stack, guard is buged, you can't block more than the 80% of the damage, etc... wait for these things to be corrected, I'm sure you will feel good in the preview when these stuff are fixed!!.
I'm just going to leave here a simple sugestion that may make the Protector tree more appealing:
Why don't we change the Protector's tree capstone feat so that in addition to reducing the attacker's damage, it also enhances block so that it blocks 100% of the incoming damage?
That's actually not a bad suggestion. Makes a real tank a truly wall.
Reckless attacker is buged, you can only get 1 stack, guard is buged, you can't block more than the 80% of the damage, etc... wait for these things to be corrected, I'm sure you will feel good in the preview when these stuff are fixed!!.
I just give my suggestion on what I experience, once they made the changes you just said, I'll try it again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited July 2014
Why don't we change the Protector's tree capstone feat so that in addition to reducing the attacker's damage, it also enhances block so that it blocks 100% of the incoming damage?
I would prefer a 10% Flat DR aside + the 5x debuff of 2% less damage per stack - that would complete the Protector capstone.
Sentines GWF capstone is = increased the effectiveness of your defense by 20% + increase the effectiveness of restoring strike + increase the DR while using unstoppbable.
it seems fair in my oppinion
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
edited July 2014
To all those who say someone is playing GF wrong - there are supposed to be multiple ways of playing a class, that is why there are specs. The upcoming changes to the GF actually remove what little diversity there is to the class and shoehorn it to a single playstyle. The availability for a best build and best skills to use would be a weakness and not a strength to the game.
So after further testing GF, doing some 1v1s on the PTR etc, I thought I would post more feedback.
I still would like to know if we can count on the current block/run speed - which is REALLY nice or if we should count on this getting dropped down to LIVE - which would hurt us alot.
The extra damage coming through block was hurting quite a bit too, so Im REALLY looking forward to this changing soon!
Overall when I took off the profound armor, my block duration seemed a tad too short. I like the option of having some feats like shield talent that increases the duration we can hold in block, but I just feel that it needs a small duration boost.
Not everyone in PVE and PVP will be running the profound set, while the bonus currently makes block feel adequate, I am fearful swapping out for any other options wont even be possible in its current form. So I think the block duration STILL needs to be increased some.
The capstone feat as you know if not working as its supposed to, its not giving us the full 5 stacks.
Overall though I like the direction its going. A few minor tweaks to block and the capstone and id say the class is pretty overall fair. I know alot of people want the protector tree to get some love too, so that would be nice.
"Pretty overall fair" - hmm lets see then. With the current LIVE reckless attacker my GF can burst in both PVE and PVP quite nicely and pull off 2-3 KC enhanced hits before people/critters even begin to attack me. On Preview my Conq needs to be hit 5 times in order to reach his max dmg output. You do realize that depending on who those 5 hits come from ( class and gear ) and under what circumstances, those 5 hits may well be the end of your GF in that particular fight.
Dont get me wrong as I like the stack's effects especially the increased crit rate as it was way overdue, however in PVP this damage delay can be a serious issue. I'm thinking some middle ground needs to be reached here.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
When comparing the GF class to the GWF class, especially Sentinels, the GF class is still lacking passive permanent defensive capabilities. Assuming that GF toons are supposed to be the hardest to kill this doesn't make sense.
The GWF gets...
1) Bravery class feature: +8% deflect
2) Heroic feat 'Armor Specialization': more defense
3) Heroic feat 'Constitution Focus': not many, but some HP
4) Sentinel feat 'Scale Agility': +5% deflect
5) Sentinel feat 'Master at Arms': +6% deflect and +5 AC
6) Sentinel feat 'Sentinel's Aegis': more defense and better DR while unstoppable
Adding to this are gear sets which increase deflect chance.
The GF gets...
1) Heroic feat 'Armor Specialization': more defense
2) Protector feat 'Plate Agility': +5% deflect
3) Protector feat 'Shield Defense': +5 AC
4) More HP from constitution.
Clearly the GF is lacking when it comes to improve its passive defense permanently. While the GF can use the shield to increase the damage resistance, Sentinels can also do this by going unstoppable and they have the advantage of being able to use any at-will and any encounter without losing the damage reduction. The GF cannot do this. Also GWF's unstoppable can be regained much quicker if the GWF is hit hard enough. The GF has to wait for a fixed amount of time before being able to block again.
My suggestion is to increase the GF's permanent defensive capabilities. Something like...
1) Toughness giving 4/8/12% or 5/10/15% more HP
2) Protector feat 'Plate Agility': +10% deflect
3) Protector feat 'Shield Defense': +10 AC
4) 'Shield Talent' also increasing deflect by 3/6/9%.
5) Protector feat 'Iron Guard': add yet more deflect and AC (it's shouldn't be called Iron Guard for nothing)
Some of the defense increases could be move to Balanced Shield Fighter similar to what Sentinel's "Master at Arms" does. This would make Protectors more defensively powerful.
It may also be intersting to change the block mechanic in the following way.
1) Blocking doesn't drain stamina. The GF can block as long as he wants to.
2) If the block is lowered all stamina is lost and the GF cannot raise his shield until stamina is full again. The time it takes for stamina to rebuild should be lowered. The time frame where a GF cannot block shouldn't be to large.
My feeling is that the change to blocking wouldn't be overpowered and could make PVP fights more interesting. While blocking the GF can use only two at-will powers which don't deal much damage. In return he shields most of the incoming damage. Only by lowering his shield he is able to do more damage by using his encounters. In return he will take much more damage.
To beat a GF you'd have to wait for him to lower his shield or you'd have to try to get behind him. And for the GF to beat someone he'd have to lower his shield at some point and give up his defense for a while. Might not be much different to the current live system but due to the infinite block you cannot force a GF to "drop" his shield anymore - and the time frame where the GF cannot use his shield is much shorter, forcing opponents to react quickly.
Just an idea that likely was mentioned by others and might already have been tested by the devs.
1) If you cant beat GWFs on the PTR, your doing it wrong. The hardest classes are HR/TR at the moment, im not worried about GWFs because destroyers that can dish out damage, cant take it, and sents cant dish out any damage.
2) The old reckless attacker is ALOT worse for both PVE and PVP. It blows my mind you guys can even say that. Ill tell you what, well go 1v1 my GWF versus your GF on LIVE and you can see how pitiful this "uptime" is you speak of. The ONLY time youll have "uptime" on reckless in pvp is fighting bad players. Now the only thing that makes me nervous about the new version is you need to be hit, so if your not hit you wont get benefit. THis though is the exact same as the Destroyer GWF as they need to be in unstoppable to get dmg boost. So overall I think its fair.
3) You dont even know how the new block is going to work because its not even working correctly, extra damage is coming through currently, people are complaining about damage coming through block, but once its fixed it will be such a low percentage that it really doesnt matter. At wills that were hitting for 1k+ will hit you for like 80 damage, get some regen and youll be fine - they also gave us ALOT more HP via con to deal with this as well.
4) I am going to be on GF for module 4 due to these changes, both Freshour and I are posting to drown out the tears of the uneducated players who say things like "the old block was fine" "the old reckless was better" you really have no idea. If you want to know, ask me in game and I can show you. There are CRAZY synergies you can pull off with this new block that can make you very strong.
My biggest fear is that HRs/TRs will stay as is, and with the new SW coming up - I am guessing there will be balance issues there as well. As far as Mod4 versus mod3 GF, mod 4 will win HANDS DOWN. Now its just a matter of making the class a contender with other classes...
1 - Destroyers that can dish damage cant take it ? You sure 'bout that ? Tell it to my 35K HP, 33% Deflect, 40% DR, 30% ArmPen, Insane Crit Rate monster with Greater PF and enough regen to keep on going for ages...And what about those PVP Destroyers with 40K+ HP hmm and P Barkshield? My toon isnt even BiS yet. To say that the GF is fine just because Destro GWFs got a survivability nerf is not right at all. Nerfing the strong to cater to the weak is wrong. Either bring the lacking class up enough to be on par or scrap it.
2 - its not fair, not even close. Because PVP GWFs all run the plague and the plague builds those stacks in a freaking instant. You are always doing this Mr Synergy and dont think people dont see it. You speak with half truths, not telling the whole story cause you want to avoid any damaging changes to your GWF.. I get it since I play both fighters myself. Thats why Ive been saying like forever - buff the weak, let the classes that work to keep working
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Tide of Iron is my main at-will artard. Knight's Challenge is cheese and will get you nowhere in a premade. GF's can't spam prones anymore, the durations are not long enough. You use your prones to position your enemy so that you and your team can kill them faster. I really don't understand why you keep this up. Stick to factual debate rather QQ'ing because you don't know how to play the class. Even better, PM and we'll set up a premade and see which GF helps the team more. For PINKS! Loser has to quit playing his GF
Not to bust your bubble or something but... premades are not even 1% of the entire PvP community. Premade to me merely means : A person has to be carried due to bad character specs aka. GF without KC (no damage output), Try pugging without KC. Not against those 8k GF guys, though. You'll be able to kill a CW, at best with your setup. And in order to defeat more tanky classes, it takes 2-3 rotations instead of just ONE.
Dont get me wrong as I like the stack's effects especially the increased crit rate as it was way overdue, however in PVP this damage delay can be a serious issue. I'm thinking some middle ground needs to be reached here.
Why not just drop the stack thing from Reckless Attacker? Just give him a plain +25% damage bonus and +%10 critical hit bonus. Or make the "stacks" be acquired in one or two hits.
At least increase the duration to 25 seconds. That's what Destroyers are getting and will help GFs (in PvE) to keep the stacks while going to the next encounter.
Feedback: Reckless Attacker The new reckless attacker makes no sense in the conqueror tree. What it is is an alternative take on Combat Superiority. The Conqueror path makes combat superiority drop the need to be attacked first in order to avoid damage as the Conquerors are supposed to be squishier than the other builds. This is further proven by Straggering Challenge that increases the effect of knights challenge which is not supposed to be used when you are getting hit as you take a lot more damage than usual and Wrathful Warrior - which increases damage when you have temporary hitpoints which are evaporated with a single hit in most situations. So if we are not supposed to get hit a lot with the Conqueror then why do we get a skill that requires you to be hit? The previous Reckless Attacker worked in the completely opposite manner - it required you not to get hit to get its full effect and complimented the other skill in the tree well.
Spot on. Very good point
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The guys complaining aren't real GF's. They use Knight's Challenge and pug... They don't do premades, nor go against good players. Take everything they say lightly, then imagine it is coming from 95 year old man with down syndrome in a vegetative state. THEN, what they say should make perfect sense.
Oh really ? And what are you going to do once the prone chain gets broken and the single build every "good" pvp GF runs becomes obsolete ?
KC is the best dmg buff in this game and it was made for PVP. In my eyes a GF who is afraid to use it lacks backbone and skill..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Oh really ? And what are you going to do once the prone chain gets broken and the single build every "good" pvp GF runs becomes obsolete ?
KC is the best dmg buff in this game and it was made for PVP. In my eyes a GF who is afraid to use it lacks backbone and skill..
I'm curious too, what do you do in a premade were 90% of the cases you are in 1v1 or 2v1?, how do you drop your enemy's hp to 25% with KC and/or AoD slotted?, for me it doesn't make sense, KC/AoD it's just to steal kills.
I've tried several builds and the one that has given me the best results is:
Encounter: Lunging/Bull/Griffon's
At-Will: Crushing Surge/Tide of Iron
Dailies: Crescendo/SoS
The prones help me a lot when I have to face a HR/GWF/TR in 1v1 and don't die, and Bull/Lunging/Crescendo + 3 Griffon's charge chained deal a lot of damage.
Encounter: Lunging/Bull/Griffon's
At-Will: Crushing Surge/Tide of Iron
Dailies: Crescendo/SoS
The prones help me a lot when I have to face a HR/GWF/TR in 1v1 and don't die, and Bull/Lunging/Crescendo + 3 Griffon's charge chained deal a lot of damage.
I'm puging, but that's almost my tools too (except villain menace in place of SoS) and I'm regularly at at least 2 kills for one death.
And why aren't you able to discuss without calling names people ?
And about preview, I only tested in solo PvE, but the block is OK like that in these conditions. It's long enough (with profound and a few boons) to be useful.
I'll be waiting for the complete version of Reckless Attacker to judge it.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
I'm curious too, what do you do in a premade were 90% of the cases you are in 1v1 or 2v1?, how do you drop your enemy's hp to 25% with KC and/or AoD slotted?, for me it doesn't make sense, KC/AoD it's just to steal kills.
I've tried several builds and the one that has given me the best results is:
Encounter: Lunging/Bull/Griffon's
At-Will: Crushing Surge/Tide of Iron
Dailies: Crescendo/SoS
The prones help me a lot when I have to face a HR/GWF/TR in 1v1 and don't die, and Bull/Lunging/Crescendo + 3 Griffon's charge chained deal a lot of damage.
"Encounter: Lunging/Bull/Griffon's" - this is what I switch to in a match where KC might be a bit too dangerous/pointless to use (example: If the enemy has way too many CWs who cc me while a melee class takes me apart ). KC is the most tactical skill a GF has imo - mine is specced to do 110% dmg. You need to time its use, you need to be aware of many things: who you apply it to?/does he have a clue what it is?/do his mates have a clue what it is?/is that person a good dodger or not?/ is your team good enough to occupy the rest of the enemy while you focus 1 target at a time?.. All of these questions and the answers are crucial to a functional KC use. My usual setup is LS/KC/BC. I dont use the Anvil in pvp and I prefer TI over a single target daily.
Proning is easy ( or least it will be so till mod 4 goes live ) but if a GF wants to do real damage then KC is the way to go. In the end of the day it is a personal choice of playstyle, I may have been a bit over the top with my previous comment about GFs who dont use KC however the "prone" team pretty much asked for it.
PS: Flourish is kinda sweet with the damage buff and feat. Wonder if I'll be able to fit it for PVP, time will tell. Also if anybody doubts KC's effectiveness, let me tell you its not simply an offensive tool. It can be used to severely debuff the hardest hitting enemy player when he goes for your own team's squishies.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
To correct you - I only pointed out your ignorance, that is different than directly insulting you. You see, I am trying to give productive changes. I see this thing called "the big picture" - I mean this with respect, but if they listened to your changes, we would have the same GF as mod 3. That is a GF that sucks, the lowest the class has ever been, and you want that for us. I am trying everything I can, sarcasm, no sarcasm, insults, productive and constructive criticism you name it, EVERYTHING. To get you guys to realize how wrong some of you are. I don't mean everyone. But anyone who says the capstone should go back is wrong. Anyone who says the block should be reverted to the old block is wrong. The duration of the old block + the capstone sucked. It allowed you to use Knight's Challenge with no skill at all - move on and figure out how to play.
So there, get a dev, please. But at the end of the day. Which ideas are they listening to? Or better wording, whose ideas are their changes closer to? Are you saying the Dev's have no clue what they are doing? Or is it that they can see where we were, and where they want us to be?
This shows that you do not read all the post young man. I have stated multiple times I do not care what is done to the block mechanics, Period! The devs can go wild give u all a block that blocks everything I do not care, all I am asking is to leave reckless attacker alone.
If it was up to you everyone would be a cookie cutter do everything the same way have the same skills GF, so each GF you go up against would do things exactly like you because you feel your way is the only way to build a GF, and why not your build is perfect.
Well guess what your build is not perfect, it may be perfect for YOU, but not for me nor for other players, that's what the word diversity means, it means each player has the right to build his char in his own manner, not according to someone else.
Perhaps you are too young to realize that when you phrase your sentences as you do towards someone it is insulting. When you use the word ignorance towards a person or entity you are insinuating that they lack the power of thought or action.
And just for the record, I do not, have not, nor ever will use Knights challenge!
The insults and the BULLING going on in this forum are destroying what we are trying to get accomplished!
I wish to offer a compromise for everyone to consider:
Most who have posted here agree that 2 of the 3 feat trees are broken, and that the conqueror tree is the only one working.
So what I purpose is for the developers to make the changes they are discussing to one of the two broken trees and not to the conq tree.
I do not care what is done to block, I have used my shield exactly twice that's it. This is MY play style, you don't have to agree with it, just accept OK that's his play style just like such and such is my play style.
I do not/ will not try to jamb my build or my play style down any ones throat as being perfect or better, it is merely MY PLAY STYLE. That is the basis of gaming, to build your toon in the manner you wish to build him/her to suit your particular play style.
It is my opinion that the changes discussed for reckless attacker are more suited to the protector tree, or perhaps the tactician tree. The conq tree is the well just like the end feat states, REAKLESS ATTACKER, that describes the players who use this feat tree. We are squishier then the other tanks, we are reckless, but we do the most damage.
DO what you want to the shields and blocks, they are merely decorative add ins for the conqueror's, a place to hang enchants.
There is no such thing as a right or wrong build, it is personnel taste and choice according to each individuals play style, so stop with the insults and **** bickering.
I am going to add this in as a footnote, you synergy guys are passionate about your PvP, that's fine I do not begrudge you one bit, that is your play style. I respect that, so respect mine and other players play style as well. My build possible would not survive PvP well, it is not my cup of tea, but a build suited to PvP would not produce the damage landmarks against epic bosses that my build does. That is not meant as an insult it is a fact, for PvP you have to split your armor stats adding ten, it takes away from your offensive damage output towards PvE bosses, I have no such limitation all my gear and enchants are towards doing maximum damage in Pve.
Two different play styles, two different people, I do not shove my build down your throat do not shove your build down mine.
I really appreciated the buff to stamina duration and mark, but I think GF need more love, especially the protector tree.
Some suggestions:
Move armor of bahamut deeper in the tree.
Shield defense: Gain 2/4/6/8/10 to AC.
Shieldmaster: Guard now drains stamina 4/8/12/16/20% more slowly.
Brawling warrior: Knight's Valor increases your damage resistence by 2/4/6/8/10% and enforced threat deal an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage and threat
Balance shield fighter: Your shield slam and stab at wills deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damage
Iron guard: *REWORK* each time you are hit you gain a stack of iron guard, each stack increases your damage resistance by 3% and deflect chanche by 1.5%, each stack last 15 seconds, max 5 stacks.
Why don't we change the Protector's tree capstone feat so that in addition to reducing the attacker's damage, it also enhances block so that it blocks 100% of the incoming damage?
I'm absolutely for reworking The Protector's capstone entirely, not enhancing its current functioning. It doesn't feel right that what is supposed to be the tankiest build of the tankiest class has a capstone that is activated by *attacking*, it feels more like a Conqueror's (minor, not capstone) feat.
Please try to make it useful by doing what Protectors do: defending. It should be a feat defensively empowering our block just like sentinel GWF capstone empowers (defensively) their unstoppable, maybe by giving us 90% block instead of 80%, or giving our block an AoE shielding effect, i.e. acting as a minor (20-25%) shield on our nearby allies
Comments
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Here is another one for you:
Ubiquitous shield, -25% damage against you by foes who have CA against you.
There are others but I will not educate you pertaining to the class.
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aetharas:
That is partly wrong, as Ubiquitous Shield just reduces the effect of Combat Advantage by up to 25% but not the whole damage.
Apologize if my comment was misleading, yes it reduces the added damage that CA gives your opponent by -25%.
Now on to other comments made here, there are some loose tongues, (fingers) here getting rather insulting to other players (you know who u are synagy or whatever), I don't care whether you agree with people or not be polite or don't post.
There are other ways to play a GF, your build isn't the made all be all you are trying to make it out to be, just because some of us do not PvP doesn't mean our build is of lesser importance then yours.
Other posters here have discovered what I did including: Elve, Ctf4void, aiulian, Mfgamesys and I believe embracemysword( if I left anyone out my apologies). There is a major difference between a hit from a GF packing 10-11k power and one only packing 4.5-5k power that even with the +25% damage increase is not enough to replace the loss in damage we will deal.
And crit, pffft that's for rogues, we deal flat damage, constant damage, sure a crit is nice but crit is a variable not to be counted upon, flat high output damage is constant, that's this classes feat and mainstay. If you build a GF that has to rely on crits to stay alive and to deal damage you should have made a rogue.
I do not care what they (the developers) do with the shield, I never use it, my shield bar is always full so I have a constant +100% power for my strikes, not after being hit 5 times, but right from the start so my first strike, Yes Lunging strike, hits hard, it is followed by tide of iron to further knock down their defense which allows my following strikes to hit even harder. I know I am going to get hit, heck the more the merrier but know I am going to hit back harder, that is the basis of this build and reckless attacker in its old form is what made this build.
In mod 3 power was changed to scale damage as power was increased, so don't add something in one mod then turn around and completely nerf it in the next release, and changing reckless attacker to what is being discussed is just that, a nerf!
It works well for PvE, the duration feel a little long but I guess it was for my guard increases from gear and boons (protector build plus purified black ice gear), also, looks like the 80% reduction was removed from PvE (wich is for the best in my opinion and should be removed from pvp too).
Tide of Iron is my main at-will artard. Knight's Challenge is cheese and will get you nowhere in a premade. GF's can't spam prones anymore, the durations are not long enough. You use your prones to position your enemy so that you and your team can kill them faster. I really don't understand why you keep this up. Stick to factual debate rather QQ'ing because you don't know how to play the class. Even better, PM and we'll set up a premade and see which GF helps the team more. For PINKS! Loser has to quit playing his GF
My suggestion for getting our damage up without making a few gear sets invalid.
Reckless attacker still doubles power but upon being hit gain critical strike 2% per stack(up to 5) this would be a buff of the current live capstone. While not making a few gear sets invalid due to the fact that building tanky is a better option when going the conq path as it will only add flat dmg which does not rely on gear at all unlike the current live version. I would even be open to the critical strike being lowered(to 1.5% or 1%) even but keeping the double power stacking as with the new duration of block it would be perfect with a second or two more added.
This suggestion is due to that fact that someone who doesn't stack power will get a giant buff without having to stack power if at all. Yes other capstones give straight dmg but this will lead to heavy tank specs going who have around 2500 power which is a 10% buff when comparing to the live capstone. This is a call for balance as this feat will have guardian fighters destroying people when they build tank and dish out a ton more damage than normal.
Also let us not forget some classes are getting their damage nerfed so then this would become a fotm class for certain reasons and thus require a nerf this is to avoid doing 1 step forward 2 steps back.
To correct you - I only pointed out your ignorance, that is different than directly insulting you. You see, I am trying to give productive changes. I see this thing called "the big picture" - I mean this with respect, but if they listened to your changes, we would have the same GF as mod 3. That is a GF that sucks, the lowest the class has ever been, and you want that for us. I am trying everything I can, sarcasm, no sarcasm, insults, productive and constructive criticism you name it, EVERYTHING. To get you guys to realize how wrong some of you are. I don't mean everyone. But anyone who says the capstone should go back is wrong. Anyone who says the block should be reverted to the old block is wrong. The duration of the old block + the capstone sucked. It allowed you to use Knight's Challenge with no skill at all - move on and figure out how to play.
So there, get a dev, please. But at the end of the day. Which ideas are they listening to? Or better wording, whose ideas are their changes closer to? Are you saying the Dev's have no clue what they are doing? Or is it that they can see where we were, and where they want us to be?
Why don't we change the Protector's tree capstone feat so that in addition to reducing the attacker's damage, it also enhances block so that it blocks 100% of the incoming damage?
It's just a simple sugestion, no flaming please.
What do you guys think?
Thats actually a good idea but since the class will only block 80% maybe the protectors feat could make it 90% because 100% seems overpowered compared to 80% now lol. 10% more seems like a good buff to add to the existing one anyway and will make protector tree a little better.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Once the proper dr is being applied this may be less of a concern imo not saying its bad but as of now with prot spec you can keep block up 100% in combat with shield slam.
its s shame because thats not really op in pvp since no one just stands still lol but in pve it is op but i dont want it to change since im a pvp player it is nice being able to get a little bit of my shield back with a hit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Guard is bugged!!!, IDK how many times we have to say it, if you have 22% DR from tenacity and 51% DR then you should receive the 27% of the damage they do to you, if the HR is doing an Aimed Shot and it does 20K, then they will deal just 5.4K damage to you, and if you are blocking the damage you receive will be just the 5.4% the Raw damage, so the 5.4K should be reduced to 1080, it could be even reduced to 540 if you deflect it (my regen with heal depression it's 2x times that), the problem is that the DR is capped at 80%, so you will receive the 20% of any damage at the moment, that's why you suffered considerable damage, when that bug is corrected you will receive like 3 or 4 times less while you are guarding!!!.
Reckless attacker is buged, you can only get 1 stack, guard is buged, you can't block more than the 80% of the damage, etc... wait for these things to be corrected, I'm sure you will feel good in the preview when these stuff are fixed!!.
I just give my suggestion on what I experience, once they made the changes you just said, I'll try it again.
I would prefer a 10% Flat DR aside + the 5x debuff of 2% less damage per stack - that would complete the Protector capstone.
Sentines GWF capstone is = increased the effectiveness of your defense by 20% + increase the effectiveness of restoring strike + increase the DR while using unstoppbable.
it seems fair in my oppinion
"Pretty overall fair" - hmm lets see then. With the current LIVE reckless attacker my GF can burst in both PVE and PVP quite nicely and pull off 2-3 KC enhanced hits before people/critters even begin to attack me. On Preview my Conq needs to be hit 5 times in order to reach his max dmg output. You do realize that depending on who those 5 hits come from ( class and gear ) and under what circumstances, those 5 hits may well be the end of your GF in that particular fight.
Dont get me wrong as I like the stack's effects especially the increased crit rate as it was way overdue, however in PVP this damage delay can be a serious issue. I'm thinking some middle ground needs to be reached here.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The GWF gets...
1) Bravery class feature: +8% deflect
2) Heroic feat 'Armor Specialization': more defense
3) Heroic feat 'Constitution Focus': not many, but some HP
4) Sentinel feat 'Scale Agility': +5% deflect
5) Sentinel feat 'Master at Arms': +6% deflect and +5 AC
6) Sentinel feat 'Sentinel's Aegis': more defense and better DR while unstoppable
Adding to this are gear sets which increase deflect chance.
The GF gets...
1) Heroic feat 'Armor Specialization': more defense
2) Protector feat 'Plate Agility': +5% deflect
3) Protector feat 'Shield Defense': +5 AC
4) More HP from constitution.
Clearly the GF is lacking when it comes to improve its passive defense permanently. While the GF can use the shield to increase the damage resistance, Sentinels can also do this by going unstoppable and they have the advantage of being able to use any at-will and any encounter without losing the damage reduction. The GF cannot do this. Also GWF's unstoppable can be regained much quicker if the GWF is hit hard enough. The GF has to wait for a fixed amount of time before being able to block again.
My suggestion is to increase the GF's permanent defensive capabilities. Something like...
1) Toughness giving 4/8/12% or 5/10/15% more HP
2) Protector feat 'Plate Agility': +10% deflect
3) Protector feat 'Shield Defense': +10 AC
4) 'Shield Talent' also increasing deflect by 3/6/9%.
5) Protector feat 'Iron Guard': add yet more deflect and AC (it's shouldn't be called Iron Guard for nothing)
Some of the defense increases could be move to Balanced Shield Fighter similar to what Sentinel's "Master at Arms" does. This would make Protectors more defensively powerful.
It may also be intersting to change the block mechanic in the following way.
1) Blocking doesn't drain stamina. The GF can block as long as he wants to.
2) If the block is lowered all stamina is lost and the GF cannot raise his shield until stamina is full again. The time it takes for stamina to rebuild should be lowered. The time frame where a GF cannot block shouldn't be to large.
My feeling is that the change to blocking wouldn't be overpowered and could make PVP fights more interesting. While blocking the GF can use only two at-will powers which don't deal much damage. In return he shields most of the incoming damage. Only by lowering his shield he is able to do more damage by using his encounters. In return he will take much more damage.
To beat a GF you'd have to wait for him to lower his shield or you'd have to try to get behind him. And for the GF to beat someone he'd have to lower his shield at some point and give up his defense for a while. Might not be much different to the current live system but due to the infinite block you cannot force a GF to "drop" his shield anymore - and the time frame where the GF cannot use his shield is much shorter, forcing opponents to react quickly.
Just an idea that likely was mentioned by others and might already have been tested by the devs.
1 - Destroyers that can dish damage cant take it ? You sure 'bout that ? Tell it to my 35K HP, 33% Deflect, 40% DR, 30% ArmPen, Insane Crit Rate monster with Greater PF and enough regen to keep on going for ages...And what about those PVP Destroyers with 40K+ HP hmm and P Barkshield? My toon isnt even BiS yet. To say that the GF is fine just because Destro GWFs got a survivability nerf is not right at all. Nerfing the strong to cater to the weak is wrong. Either bring the lacking class up enough to be on par or scrap it.
2 - its not fair, not even close. Because PVP GWFs all run the plague and the plague builds those stacks in a freaking instant. You are always doing this Mr Synergy and dont think people dont see it. You speak with half truths, not telling the whole story cause you want to avoid any damaging changes to your GWF.. I get it since I play both fighters myself. Thats why Ive been saying like forever - buff the weak, let the classes that work to keep working
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Not to bust your bubble or something but... premades are not even 1% of the entire PvP community. Premade to me merely means : A person has to be carried due to bad character specs aka. GF without KC (no damage output), Try pugging without KC. Not against those 8k GF guys, though. You'll be able to kill a CW, at best with your setup. And in order to defeat more tanky classes, it takes 2-3 rotations instead of just ONE.
Why not just drop the stack thing from Reckless Attacker? Just give him a plain +25% damage bonus and +%10 critical hit bonus. Or make the "stacks" be acquired in one or two hits.
At least increase the duration to 25 seconds. That's what Destroyers are getting and will help GFs (in PvE) to keep the stacks while going to the next encounter.
Spot on. Very good point
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Oh really ? And what are you going to do once the prone chain gets broken and the single build every "good" pvp GF runs becomes obsolete ?
KC is the best dmg buff in this game and it was made for PVP. In my eyes a GF who is afraid to use it lacks backbone and skill..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I'm curious too, what do you do in a premade were 90% of the cases you are in 1v1 or 2v1?, how do you drop your enemy's hp to 25% with KC and/or AoD slotted?, for me it doesn't make sense, KC/AoD it's just to steal kills.
I've tried several builds and the one that has given me the best results is:
Encounter: Lunging/Bull/Griffon's
At-Will: Crushing Surge/Tide of Iron
Dailies: Crescendo/SoS
The prones help me a lot when I have to face a HR/GWF/TR in 1v1 and don't die, and Bull/Lunging/Crescendo + 3 Griffon's charge chained deal a lot of damage.
I'm puging, but that's almost my tools too (except villain menace in place of SoS) and I'm regularly at at least 2 kills for one death.
And why aren't you able to discuss without calling names people ?
And about preview, I only tested in solo PvE, but the block is OK like that in these conditions. It's long enough (with profound and a few boons) to be useful.
I'll be waiting for the complete version of Reckless Attacker to judge it.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
"Encounter: Lunging/Bull/Griffon's" - this is what I switch to in a match where KC might be a bit too dangerous/pointless to use (example: If the enemy has way too many CWs who cc me while a melee class takes me apart ). KC is the most tactical skill a GF has imo - mine is specced to do 110% dmg. You need to time its use, you need to be aware of many things: who you apply it to?/does he have a clue what it is?/do his mates have a clue what it is?/is that person a good dodger or not?/ is your team good enough to occupy the rest of the enemy while you focus 1 target at a time?.. All of these questions and the answers are crucial to a functional KC use. My usual setup is LS/KC/BC. I dont use the Anvil in pvp and I prefer TI over a single target daily.
Proning is easy ( or least it will be so till mod 4 goes live ) but if a GF wants to do real damage then KC is the way to go. In the end of the day it is a personal choice of playstyle, I may have been a bit over the top with my previous comment about GFs who dont use KC however the "prone" team pretty much asked for it.
PS: Flourish is kinda sweet with the damage buff and feat. Wonder if I'll be able to fit it for PVP, time will tell. Also if anybody doubts KC's effectiveness, let me tell you its not simply an offensive tool. It can be used to severely debuff the hardest hitting enemy player when he goes for your own team's squishies.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
This shows that you do not read all the post young man. I have stated multiple times I do not care what is done to the block mechanics, Period! The devs can go wild give u all a block that blocks everything I do not care, all I am asking is to leave reckless attacker alone.
If it was up to you everyone would be a cookie cutter do everything the same way have the same skills GF, so each GF you go up against would do things exactly like you because you feel your way is the only way to build a GF, and why not your build is perfect.
Well guess what your build is not perfect, it may be perfect for YOU, but not for me nor for other players, that's what the word diversity means, it means each player has the right to build his char in his own manner, not according to someone else.
Perhaps you are too young to realize that when you phrase your sentences as you do towards someone it is insulting. When you use the word ignorance towards a person or entity you are insinuating that they lack the power of thought or action.
And just for the record, I do not, have not, nor ever will use Knights challenge!
I wish to offer a compromise for everyone to consider:
Most who have posted here agree that 2 of the 3 feat trees are broken, and that the conqueror tree is the only one working.
So what I purpose is for the developers to make the changes they are discussing to one of the two broken trees and not to the conq tree.
I do not care what is done to block, I have used my shield exactly twice that's it. This is MY play style, you don't have to agree with it, just accept OK that's his play style just like such and such is my play style.
I do not/ will not try to jamb my build or my play style down any ones throat as being perfect or better, it is merely MY PLAY STYLE. That is the basis of gaming, to build your toon in the manner you wish to build him/her to suit your particular play style.
It is my opinion that the changes discussed for reckless attacker are more suited to the protector tree, or perhaps the tactician tree. The conq tree is the well just like the end feat states, REAKLESS ATTACKER, that describes the players who use this feat tree. We are squishier then the other tanks, we are reckless, but we do the most damage.
DO what you want to the shields and blocks, they are merely decorative add ins for the conqueror's, a place to hang enchants.
There is no such thing as a right or wrong build, it is personnel taste and choice according to each individuals play style, so stop with the insults and **** bickering.
I am going to add this in as a footnote, you synergy guys are passionate about your PvP, that's fine I do not begrudge you one bit, that is your play style. I respect that, so respect mine and other players play style as well. My build possible would not survive PvP well, it is not my cup of tea, but a build suited to PvP would not produce the damage landmarks against epic bosses that my build does. That is not meant as an insult it is a fact, for PvP you have to split your armor stats adding ten, it takes away from your offensive damage output towards PvE bosses, I have no such limitation all my gear and enchants are towards doing maximum damage in Pve.
Two different play styles, two different people, I do not shove my build down your throat do not shove your build down mine.
Some suggestions:
Move armor of bahamut deeper in the tree.
Shield defense: Gain 2/4/6/8/10 to AC.
Shieldmaster: Guard now drains stamina 4/8/12/16/20% more slowly.
Brawling warrior: Knight's Valor increases your damage resistence by 2/4/6/8/10% and enforced threat deal an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage and threat
Balance shield fighter: Your shield slam and stab at wills deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damage
Iron guard: *REWORK* each time you are hit you gain a stack of iron guard, each stack increases your damage resistance by 3% and deflect chanche by 1.5%, each stack last 15 seconds, max 5 stacks.
I'm absolutely for reworking The Protector's capstone entirely, not enhancing its current functioning. It doesn't feel right that what is supposed to be the tankiest build of the tankiest class has a capstone that is activated by *attacking*, it feels more like a Conqueror's (minor, not capstone) feat.
Please try to make it useful by doing what Protectors do: defending. It should be a feat defensively empowering our block just like sentinel GWF capstone empowers (defensively) their unstoppable, maybe by giving us 90% block instead of 80%, or giving our block an AoE shielding effect, i.e. acting as a minor (20-25%) shield on our nearby allies