With the second round of updates to the preview server I can say there are improvements.
With the block mechanic it now feels more proper except for the fact that dr is capped at 80% but once that is fixed most of this should be fine.
Reckless attacker is a welcomed changed with the bonus crit and damage without having to stack power now. It is currently bugged only giving 5% damage total instead of 25% when you have all 5 stacks.
Frontline surge is still proning players in pvp.
The damage boost to weapon master strike is nice but is just barely doing more than cleave without cruel cut style feat(15% to cleave dmg).
Flourish damage is now more in line when comparing to other encounters.
Currently with attacking animations there is a 1 second delay or more when fighting other players. In pve this does not seem to be an issue when solo.
protectors capstone needs...something... i would like to see it increase say guarded assault by 10% ontop of what it does now would fit perfect into the idea of protector it's a shame some of our skills are just fluff.
Still no blocking sound and inpact animation, and just 1 stack of reckelss attacker, rest is great. Protector revise would be nice , and maybe a lil bit faster animation on flourish?
Just like the new conqueror capstone, the protector cs should grant stacks of 5x5% damage resistance and the tactician cs should grant stacks of 5x5% action point gain. I believe this would benefit each spec equally much and would give us other options than just playing as conquerors.
Without the shield my gf reduces 45% of the incoming damage. With the shield its 80%, so the shield only redcues the incoming damage by 35% not by 80%.
Protector capstone has %5 damage resistance and %2 deflection chance. 5 stacks.
Tactician capstone has %5 AP gain and %2 runspeed. 5 stacks.
it will make protector so tanky which needs to be.(do not afraid to the protector tree is going to be like sentinel tree in pvp. they have no damage at all.)
and it will make tactician tree more fun to play.
BLOCK FEEDBACK
I Like the new blocking system. It seems to be possible to tank in pve if you keep this system.
The only need is *BLOCK* effect and sound. It feels good when we shift. I dont notice if it works or not while shifting without the effect and sound.
edit: looks silly when we are walking while shifting.
Protector capstone has %5 damage resistance and %2 deflection chance. 5 stacks.
Tactician capstone has %5 AP gain and %2 runspeed. 5 stacks.
it will make protector so tanky which needs to be.(do not afraid to the protector tree is going to be like sentinel tree in pvp. they have no damage at all.)
and it will make tactician tree more fun to play.
BLOCK FEEDBACK
I Like the new blocking system. It seems to be possible to tank in pve if you keep this system.
The only need is *BLOCK* effect and sound. It feels good when we shift. I dont notice if it works or not while shifting without the effect and sound.
edit: looks silly when we are walking while shifting.
When a GF raises the shield not even Gruumsh himself should be able to damage him. That class needs to feel like an immovable object, as opposed to the other fighter's unstoppable force. If you pick the GF, build him well, gear him well he should be able to stand in a sea of critters and hold his ground. Tactical tanking that involves constant moving is a GWF's shtick as they are the sprinters. I'm pretty sure most of the people who went for the GF initially expected to play a bank vault with legs, tougher than anything else at the cost of lower damage capability.. Well, until such time comes ( or a Paladin release ) my GF is shelved
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The new class is pretty dang good man. Swordsmaster is pretty clunky, and the shield still doesn't feel as responsive as it did mod 2, but it is closer. Once the damage is fixed (it will be soon) - it will be a lot nicer.
I just wish Vangard got a little damage back so we could still go Vangard if we wanted to, as it stands now, bull and FLS just do absolutely no damage, or much less it seems rather.
Nice grammar. I bet you will make it far, in life.
Them making idiotic suggestions doesn't give you the right to offend them like this . Plus you are losing your right .Chill out and keep it calm so we can benefit .
Freshour . The new class ain't good @ all. Crit ain't giving us that much of advantage.Plus you are the only ones in this freaking community that insist that the new stamina block will be a nice mech . Do you realize that a block that depends on time instead of meter that actually depletes via incoming dmg shall completely "CRIPPLE" the class ? .I wonder why the devs don't even pay attention to community and just blindly follow 2 players that don't even roll GF as their main class .
Freshour . The new class ain't good @ all. Crit ain't giving us that much of advantage.Plus you are the only ones in this freaking community that insist that the new stamina block will be a nice mech . Do you realize that a block that depends on time instead of meter that actually depletes via incoming dmg shall completely "CRIPPLE" the class ? .I wonder why the devs don't even pay attention to community and just blindly follow 2 players that don't even roll GF as their main class .
This is exactly what i wonder, too. The actual negative feedback outweighs the positive by a lot, like 80% against 20%. They just made it seem more, by spamming the same sh..tuff over and over again. If spamming gets the devs to believe that an idea is good... then someting is very wrong.
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Feedback / reckless attacker:
The old version is way better, the way the stacks are built up and their uptime is beyond ridiculous. Blocking to get stacks involves taking a ton of damage under the new block-mechanic before actually being able to hit for a reasonable amount of damage. Factor in the various ways of other classes to just neutralize the mechanic by: sprinting,dodging,sliding,teleporting and we have the real result, aka. the entire feat. became useless.
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Make the new block and Reckless attacker a PvE change, because both feats are terrible in PvP, nobody is going to hit us 5 times, people will just wait until our "self draining shield" is down. I wish the devs would listen, for once. Please, don't let the Guardianfightanic sink like that...
GF's are both of our main classes. The block works really well, and if you figure out how to do your feats. Also, the damage mitigation isn't fixed yet, so you'll be taking a LOT less damage after he fixes that tweak. And this new block allows us to use the capstone feature w/out having to worry about block.
ALSO - Capstone damage is only 5% right now, it's not getting the other 4 stacks.
So feat up
1. Shield Talent
2. Iron Warrior
3. If you are protector the feat that drains stamina slower
4. Into the Fray (PVE) again - more stamina recharge
5. Sharrandar Boon (10% stamina regen)
6. Profound Gear (30% block meter or any other block increase)
7. When blocking (SHIELD BASH) - Guard Regen.. this is the key to it alllllllllllllllll and yes it can crit for a lot if you are protector lol
PVE
Combine those features with Steel Defense, Briartwine, and Supremacy of Steel, combine that with enforced threat for marks + threat = you hold all aggro, reflect damage, and when SoS is up, you gain MASSIVE Action Points, and can pretty much hit another daily when that one is done. So yes, it does work PVE as well. Or you can use Fighter's Recovery with about 60-70% uptime more if you are tact spec and you are blocking for nearly an entire fight.
Please guys, read the abilities and feats of these stats, what they do for the class, and how to benefit from them before you criticize the people that have. Instead of everyone having the same block, this new set up gives you options, and can make that block stay up a LONG time. Test the new patch, do these feats/gear/powers/at wills - and then try and say it doesn't last long.
My only feedback is that the duration of block is really bad without any gear/feats. Even with plenty of stamina recovery like the boon and artifacts, I felt like it could have been increased just a tad.
Everyone is stating that two of the three trees for the Iron vanguard are broken, ok perhaps they are I cannot say I am full cong. It is the one tree that works, so why are you messing with it instead of the others. Take this new change you want to make to reckless attacker and put it on one of the other trees, reckless attacker is the backbone to the cong feat tree.
The cong feat tree is for those players who wish to deal max damage but also take the most damage of any of the skill trees. It works as it is very nicely. I do not have to wait to be hit 5 times to only gain 25% damage output, since the introduction of mod 3 power is directly perportionial to damage output, that is why reckless attacker works.
There is a large difference between damage from a 9k hit and damage from a 4.5k hit +25%.
A 4.5k hit +25% results in a hit equal to a hit from a player with 4625 power, all other variables being equal.
Sure with the increase in Crit that would help, BUT crit is a variable non constant feature, steady state damage is non variable.
If you wish to change reckless attacker to be based upon stamina that's fine, but please do not totally redesign it as was purposed.
Change one of the other feat trees to this new design instead of reckless attacker.
Most of the people in here are discussing these changes for PvP, that's fine but one variable not discussed for Pve is that damage is a form of aggo which pulls targets off of a tank, everyone has seen it. The tank aggo's and then a CW or HR hits with their insane damage and it pulls the mob off the tank due to the DAMAGE modifiers. So increase marks power to override the other damage modifiers, I know this sounds simplistic, but sometimes the simplest cure is the best.
On the damage output (low damage) everyone is talking about for a tanking GF change the weapon stat bonus to a offensive bonus. Every weapon/shield combo and bonus is def oriented, change one or two of the sets to offense oriented add a/p or crit.
As it stands right now the Mulhonald sword is the only sword stated for offense, it has high power, it has crit, and NO def, why should a sword be stated with defense, it is a offensive tool make it offensive, add crit, a/p or L/S any of the offensive stats.
You as the developers are going to do what you want, that I cannot change, but please do not change a class based upon the wants and needs of only the PVP crowd, there are many more Pve players then there are PVPer's.
So after further testing GF, doing some 1v1s on the PTR etc, I thought I would post more feedback.
I still would like to know if we can count on the current block/run speed - which is REALLY nice or if we should count on this getting dropped down to LIVE - which would hurt us alot.
The extra damage coming through block was hurting quite a bit too, so Im REALLY looking forward to this changing soon!
Overall when I took off the profound armor, my block duration seemed a tad too short. I like the option of having some feats like shield talent that increases the duration we can hold in block, but I just feel that it needs a small duration boost.
Not everyone in PVE and PVP will be running the profound set, while the bonus currently makes block feel adequate, I am fearful swapping out for any other options wont even be possible in its current form. So I think the block duration STILL needs to be increased some.
The capstone feat as you know if not working as its supposed to, its not giving us the full 5 stacks.
Overall though I like the direction its going. A few minor tweaks to block and the capstone and id say the class is pretty overall fair. I know alot of people want the protector tree to get some love too, so that would be nice.
Make the new block and Reckless attacker a PvE change, because both feats are terrible in PvP, nobody is going to hit us 5 times, people will just wait until our "self draining shield" is down. I wish the devs would listen, for once. Please, don't let the Guardianfightanic sink like that...
Feedback: Reckless Attacker feat I come from a PvE perspective, and I have tested the new reckless attacker feat (I know it is still bugged). And I can tell you that I am oppsed to the reworked reckless attacker feat from my perspective as well, and this is why:
I have less control over triggering Reckless Attacker than before. It fells like that is now mostly in the hands of the mobs, not anymore in my hand (using/not using shield). In addition the game is now live for a year, and I have built my conqueror GF around this capstone feat. For example, I have upgraded a white companion (sellsword) to rank 30 (purple), as well as a skeleton warrior (now rank 30) and a rebell mercenary (now rank 30). I acquired artifacts that provide additional power, and upgraded them to rank 90 (shard of valindra's crown, GWF class artifact). I grinded for having now rank 9 and rank 10 radiant enchantments. I did this for the additional power that my capstone feat gives me. And now a rework of Reckless Attacker topples all that over?
I had some hope that my class would see improvements, some tweaking of my class. What I see at the preview server instead is a whole rework of the GF, I would even call it a perversion. And this is NOT mainly about the changes making my class not more efficient or not increasing the efficiency enough, this can be debated. This is deeper, it is about the fun itself my class is to play because of its character and feel. I am playing GF and have kept playing it since open beta because of that, because you the developers did a realy good job with the core that makes a GF a GF. Please don't change that.
The improvements which I recommend are many, but I don't want to make one gigantic post, so I will just mention the two most important ones, based on the state of the GF at the LIVE server: 1. Increase the weapon damage. 2. Increase the guard meter, or/and the regeneration rate of the guard meter.
Oh, and before I forget it: colonelwing, shivonomine and others do have a point when they question that these proposed changes to the GF class occur against the backdrop of an opposed majority and a few zealously vocal proponents.
Just like the new conqueror capstone, the protector cs should grant stacks of 5x5% damage resistance and the tactician cs should grant stacks of 5x5% action point gain. I believe this would benefit each spec equally much and would give us other options than just playing as conquerors.
Good idea. Tactician´s pagangon tree is becoming obsolete with the new additions to conqueror and protectors. Tacticians need some love to
This is exactly what i wonder, too. The actual negative feedback outweighs the positive by a lot, like 80% against 20%. They just made it seem more, by spamming the same sh..tuff over and over again. If spamming gets the devs to believe that an idea is good... then someting is very wrong.
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Feedback / reckless attacker:
The old version is way better, the way the stacks are built up and their uptime is beyond ridiculous. Blocking to get stacks involves taking a ton of damage under the new block-mechanic before actually being able to hit for a reasonable amount of damage. Factor in the various ways of other classes to just neutralize the mechanic by: sprinting,dodging,sliding,teleporting and we have the real result, aka. the entire feat. became useless.
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Make the new block and Reckless attacker a PvE change, because both feats are terrible in PvP, nobody is going to hit us 5 times, people will just wait until our "self draining shield" is down. I wish the devs would listen, for once. Please, don't let the Guardianfightanic sink like that...
1) If you cant beat GWFs on the PTR, your doing it wrong. The hardest classes are HR/TR at the moment, im not worried about GWFs because destroyers that can dish out damage, cant take it, and sents cant dish out any damage.
2) The old reckless attacker is ALOT worse for both PVE and PVP. It blows my mind you guys can even say that. Ill tell you what, well go 1v1 my GWF versus your GF on LIVE and you can see how pitiful this "uptime" is you speak of. The ONLY time youll have "uptime" on reckless in pvp is fighting bad players. Now the only thing that makes me nervous about the new version is you need to be hit, so if your not hit you wont get benefit. THis though is the exact same as the Destroyer GWF as they need to be in unstoppable to get dmg boost. So overall I think its fair.
3) You dont even know how the new block is going to work because its not even working correctly, extra damage is coming through currently, people are complaining about damage coming through block, but once its fixed it will be such a low percentage that it really doesnt matter. At wills that were hitting for 1k+ will hit you for like 80 damage, get some regen and youll be fine - they also gave us ALOT more HP via con to deal with this as well.
4) I am going to be on GF for module 4 due to these changes, both Freshour and I are posting to drown out the tears of the uneducated players who say things like "the old block was fine" "the old reckless was better" you really have no idea. If you want to know, ask me in game and I can show you. There are CRAZY synergies you can pull off with this new block that can make you very strong.
My biggest fear is that HRs/TRs will stay as is, and with the new SW coming up - I am guessing there will be balance issues there as well. As far as Mod4 versus mod3 GF, mod 4 will win HANDS DOWN. Now its just a matter of making the class a contender with other classes...
I Like the new blocking system. It seems to be possible to tank in pve if you keep this system.
The only need is *BLOCK* effect and sound. It feels good when we shift. I dont notice if it works or not while shifting without the effect and sound.
edit: looks silly when we are walking while shifting.
This ^.
1) If it doesn't have the effect and sound I can't notice if it's working, I need something to tell me if the hits I receive were blocked.
2) I agree that my GF looks very silly when we are almost runing with our guard up and it feels weird, I would prefer if we have something in the middle, not so slow like what do we have now, but not so fast like in preview.
I am still skeptical towards the new "supposed to be better" reckless attacker. I am hitting way less on PTS than i do on live and remember, what are we lacking? Damage™. The 10% crit does not make up for a 25% damage loss, 25% less damage means 50% less with KC. That's half of my overall damage output. This is too obvious to claim something else.
Ayroux, 2) The old reckless attacker is ALOT worse for both PVE and PVP. It blows my mind you guys can even say that. Ill tell you what, well go 1v1 my GWF versus your GF on LIVE and you can see how pitiful this "uptime" is you speak of. The ONLY time youll have "uptime" on reckless in pvp is fighting bad players. Now the only thing that makes me nervous about the new version is you need to be hit, so if your not hit you wont get benefit. THis though is the exact same as the Destroyer GWF as they need to be in unstoppable to get dmg boost. So overall I think its fair.
With the old reckless attacker there is no uptime as you say, it is constant. The new change purposed is uptime, a GF has to be hit 5 times for a +25 increase, that's uptime. If I am misreading what you are trying to say then I apologize, but your wording is coming across that the old reckless was worse, and the new reckless is better..
To insult others as you are: 4) I am going to be on GF for module 4 due to these changes, both Freshour and I are posting to drown out the tears of the uneducated players who say things like "the old block was fine" "the old reckless was better" you really have no idea. If you want to know, ask me in game and I can show you. There are CRAZY synergies you can pull off with this new block that can make you very strong.
Uneducated well how about this: we have two skills that grant defense debuffs against a foe.
We have a skill that grants +15% damage increase against any foe affected by a control power, well defense debuff is a control power, but I don't think you know that.
Here is another one for you:
Ubiquitous shield, -25% damage against you by foes who have CA against you.
There are others but I will not educate you pertaining to the class.
By your own words you do not play a GF but you are here trying to change the class to suit you for PVP
Hey all, we are adding another pair of Guardian Fighter changes to the upcoming patch. We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Mark: Targets who are Marked have -20% damage resistance against strikes from the Guardian Fighter. Targets who are marked still have -8% damage resistance against the Guardian Fighter's allies.
Feats: Conqueror: Reckless Attacker: *Rework* When struck in combat you gain Reckless Attacker. Reckless Attacker increases your damage by 5% and Critical chance by 2%. Reckless Attacker lasts 10 seconds and stacks up to 5 times.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This goes certainly in the right direction; but would you mind to increase the duration just a bit more? It seems to me now around 9 seconds (or 10 sec at best) and with Shield Talent at 11 seconds (or 12 sec at best). Would it not be better to factor in lags or the like? So giving one or two extra seconds just to give a buffer? Many Encounter powers are somewhat slow and Blocking is nice and good but it brings the Guardian Fighter to nowhere, it gives him no mobility and he has to stand there or to attack but it does not give him opportunities to flee the scene.
Also, the Guardian Fighter still has a hard time to get other defensive stats besides Defence while keeping his offensive stats high enough to do enough damage which scales then with all the Threat modifiers. I do not say, he needs much more but as it is now, after his Block runs out, he is a very squishy class compared to the other tanking options, actually just his Block qualifies him as a slightly better tank than the Great Weapon Fighter in addition to his (GF) better Threat management. The recent changes do not give him that much more damage that would justify this overcautious enhancement (with no other enhancements in terms of survivability, partly because many powers still feel clunky).
The feat as it is now on the preview won't help the conqueror tree, from my point of view it is more suitable for the tactician path. The conqueror tree is focused on power and recovery (as all the qear for conquerors is...), tacticians have the gear focused on defense and recovery which gives them time (not necessary time, but they can survive more then us) to get those charges and then at the right moment crit. Conqueror isn't a path for major tanking (high defense) is more of a DPS path for the GF that is focused on the power of the hits not on the critical strike and on HPs to tank this way making it prefect pair with the DC which supports the conq (more power = more heal) that was it's purpose and that it should remain.
The feat as it is now on the preview won't help the conqueror tree, from my point of view it is more suitable for the tactician path. The conqueror tree is focused on power and recovery (as all the qear for conquerors is...), tacticians have the gear focused on defense and recovery which gives them time (not necessary time, but they can survive more then us) to get those charges and then at the right moment crit. Conqueror isn't a path for major tanking (high defense) is more of a DPS path for the GF that is focused on the power of the hits not on the critical strike and on HPs to tank this way making it prefect pair with the DC which supports the conq (more power = more heal) that was it's purpose and that it should remain.
Tacticians can survive longer because of their capstone talent and the increased gain of Action Points (all the more with the Swordmaster paragon path) and Reckless Attacker would not enhance their survivability, rather it would hinder them: I cannot agree in any way to your point of view.
I am still skeptical towards the new "supposed to be better" reckless attacker. I am hitting way less on PTS than i do on live and remember, what are we lacking? Damage™. The 10% crit does not make up for a 25% damage loss, 25% less damage means 50% less with KC. That's half of my overall damage output. This is too obvious to claim something else.
Dude... do you not read all the posts? Curerntly on PTR the feat isnt working correctly as it only is adding ONE stack @ 5% instead of 5 stacks at 5%... So its missing 20% of its damage atm....
There is no 25% damage loss, weve already gone over the math so I wont do it again. The ONLY way youll see damage loss is going INTO a fight where you normally have full block, can KC someone and dish damage.
But once your IN a fight, your block would drain (or youd die - Im not going to argue this as its fact in high level pvp) and you have ZERO damage boost. SO the change only hurts you starting out, but helps you during the fight - the same way a GWF has to take damage to get unstoppable to gain stacks.
The nice thing about the GF one tho is alot of classes run things like the deflect boon that hits you when THEY deflect, so you can still even build stacks of this from attaking people, also many powers - like repel on CW for instance are AOE and there is a high chance you will get hit for that. Also many HRs run thorn ward on nodes which will constantly hit you.
TLDR: In low level PVP you may arguably see less uptime, in high level PVP youll have ALOT more uptime AND wont die.
This goes certainly in the right direction; but would you mind to increase the duration just a bit more? It seems to me now around 9 seconds (or 10 sec at best) and with Shield Talent at 11 seconds (or 12 sec at best). Would it not be better to factor in lags or the like? So giving one or two extra seconds just to give a buffer? Many Encounter powers are somewhat slow and Blocking is nice and good but it brings the Guardian Fighter to nowhere, it gives him no mobility and he has to stand there or to attack but it does not give him opportunities to flee the scene.
Also, the Guardian Fighter still has a hard time to get other defensive stats besides Defence while keeping his offensive stats high enough to do enough damage which scales then with all the Threat modifiers. I do not say, he needs much more but as it is now, after his Block runs out, he is a very squishy class compared to the other tanking options, actually just his Block qualifies him as a slightly better tank than the Great Weapon Fighter in addition to his (GF) better Threat management. The recent changes do not give him that much more damage that would justify this overcautious enhancement (with no other enhancements in terms of survivability, partly because many powers still feel clunky).
That is partly wrong, as Ubiquitous Shield just reduces the effect of Combat Advantage by up to 25% but not the whole damage.
I think you may be counting fast? As I tested this with full stamina regen possible, profound gear (boosts guard by 30%) shield talent and the entire works... I got about 8 seconds of block.
Overall I think we both agree, block duration needs to be bumped up just a TAD bit more. I didnt test the "base" duration but maybe add 1 second to it and I think itll be perfect. It would be nice to not feel like you HAVE to slot block enhancements but more that you have a choice to do so.. Right now it feels to me that you HAVE to slot for block to make it viable - which I dont like...
I agree as well, our "stats" really stink. NONE of our gear offers +critical. Hardly any gear offers ARP. Most gear is power/recovery/defense oriented which I dont mind, but it would be nice to have options with offensive stats.
Id like to see weapon set bonuses with power, or arp, or crit, or heck even deflect!!! But we end up with 5k defense, low deflect, low crit, low arp and are FORCED to get those stats on rings/belts etc while all other classes (GWFs for example) get some of that on gear and can use defensive slot items for more HP gain. Im not saying this is a major change needed, but for Mod 4 sets, please give GFs some decent offensive choices and NOT just Power/Rec....
Tacticians can survive longer because of their capstone talent and the increased gain of Action Points (all the more with the Swordmaster paragon path) and Reckless Attacker would not enhance their survivability, rather it would hinder them: I cannot agree in any way to your point of view.
I didn't wanted to say that there is something wrong with tacticians just that I find more crit best for them. And the last feat from the tactician tree is ok I have no problem with it and I don't want it to get changed either.
With the current live reckless attacker we get double the bonus damage and double the bonus healing. And now with the current test version we have the 25% damage and 10% crit after taking 5 hits. This change means we are substituting critical strike for bonus healing which is not that constant from what I tested so far(I manage 34.9% with stone on the test shard).With the current bug of only getting 5% bonus damage this may also be affecting critical strike as well in my opinion from how little I was getting critical strikes.
The difference is we lose the control over reckless attacker now which is a negative and complete scraping of how most gfs like having that impact first lunge at a player. So in this regard to regain some control over our capstone our at wills should be able to give us a stack of reckless. This should have little to no bearing on pve(just faster to 5 stacks) but more of a pvp balance because currently we cannot be ignored but with the preview reckless attacker other players will not have such a priority with attacking us lowering our damage in certain pvp situations when compared to the old reckless.
yes awesome just got done testing the improved block again and all i have to say is ++ on your guys part thank you for upping the duration of the drain if you spec and feat correctly you can have almost a 90% uptime at the cost of dmg nice trade off in my opinion good job devs im very happy with these changes keep it that way now just fix reckless attacker
Comments
With the block mechanic it now feels more proper except for the fact that dr is capped at 80% but once that is fixed most of this should be fine.
Reckless attacker is a welcomed changed with the bonus crit and damage without having to stack power now.
It is currently bugged only giving 5% damage total instead of 25% when you have all 5 stacks.
Frontline surge is still proning players in pvp.
The damage boost to weapon master strike is nice but is just barely doing more than cleave without cruel cut style feat(15% to cleave dmg).
Flourish damage is now more in line when comparing to other encounters.
Currently with attacking animations there is a 1 second delay or more when fighting other players. In pve this does not seem to be an issue when solo.
Protector and Tactician capstone - rework :
Just like the new conqueror capstone, the protector cs should grant stacks of 5x5% damage resistance and the tactician cs should grant stacks of 5x5% action point gain. I believe this would benefit each spec equally much and would give us other options than just playing as conquerors.
Protector capstone has %5 damage resistance and %2 deflection chance. 5 stacks.
Tactician capstone has %5 AP gain and %2 runspeed. 5 stacks.
it will make protector so tanky which needs to be.(do not afraid to the protector tree is going to be like sentinel tree in pvp. they have no damage at all.)
and it will make tactician tree more fun to play.
BLOCK FEEDBACK
I Like the new blocking system. It seems to be possible to tank in pve if you keep this system.
The only need is *BLOCK* effect and sound. It feels good when we shift. I dont notice if it works or not while shifting without the effect and sound.
edit: looks silly when we are walking while shifting.
When a GF raises the shield not even Gruumsh himself should be able to damage him. That class needs to feel like an immovable object, as opposed to the other fighter's unstoppable force. If you pick the GF, build him well, gear him well he should be able to stand in a sea of critters and hold his ground. Tactical tanking that involves constant moving is a GWF's shtick as they are the sprinters. I'm pretty sure most of the people who went for the GF initially expected to play a bank vault with legs, tougher than anything else at the cost of lower damage capability.. Well, until such time comes ( or a Paladin release ) my GF is shelved
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I just wish Vangard got a little damage back so we could still go Vangard if we wanted to, as it stands now, bull and FLS just do absolutely no damage, or much less it seems rather.
Them making idiotic suggestions doesn't give you the right to offend them like this . Plus you are losing your right .Chill out and keep it calm so we can benefit .
Freshour . The new class ain't good @ all. Crit ain't giving us that much of advantage.Plus you are the only ones in this freaking community that insist that the new stamina block will be a nice mech . Do you realize that a block that depends on time instead of meter that actually depletes via incoming dmg shall completely "CRIPPLE" the class ? .I wonder why the devs don't even pay attention to community and just blindly follow 2 players that don't even roll GF as their main class .
This is exactly what i wonder, too. The actual negative feedback outweighs the positive by a lot, like 80% against 20%. They just made it seem more, by spamming the same sh..tuff over and over again. If spamming gets the devs to believe that an idea is good... then someting is very wrong.
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Feedback / reckless attacker:
The old version is way better, the way the stacks are built up and their uptime is beyond ridiculous. Blocking to get stacks involves taking a ton of damage under the new block-mechanic before actually being able to hit for a reasonable amount of damage. Factor in the various ways of other classes to just neutralize the mechanic by: sprinting,dodging,sliding,teleporting and we have the real result, aka. the entire feat. became useless.
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Make the new block and Reckless attacker a PvE change, because both feats are terrible in PvP, nobody is going to hit us 5 times, people will just wait until our "self draining shield" is down. I wish the devs would listen, for once. Please, don't let the Guardianfightanic sink like that...
ALSO - Capstone damage is only 5% right now, it's not getting the other 4 stacks.
So feat up
1. Shield Talent
2. Iron Warrior
3. If you are protector the feat that drains stamina slower
4. Into the Fray (PVE) again - more stamina recharge
5. Sharrandar Boon (10% stamina regen)
6. Profound Gear (30% block meter or any other block increase)
7. When blocking (SHIELD BASH) - Guard Regen.. this is the key to it alllllllllllllllll and yes it can crit for a lot if you are protector lol
PVE
Combine those features with Steel Defense, Briartwine, and Supremacy of Steel, combine that with enforced threat for marks + threat = you hold all aggro, reflect damage, and when SoS is up, you gain MASSIVE Action Points, and can pretty much hit another daily when that one is done. So yes, it does work PVE as well. Or you can use Fighter's Recovery with about 60-70% uptime more if you are tact spec and you are blocking for nearly an entire fight.
Please guys, read the abilities and feats of these stats, what they do for the class, and how to benefit from them before you criticize the people that have. Instead of everyone having the same block, this new set up gives you options, and can make that block stay up a LONG time. Test the new patch, do these feats/gear/powers/at wills - and then try and say it doesn't last long.
My only feedback is that the duration of block is really bad without any gear/feats. Even with plenty of stamina recovery like the boon and artifacts, I felt like it could have been increased just a tad.
The cong feat tree is for those players who wish to deal max damage but also take the most damage of any of the skill trees. It works as it is very nicely. I do not have to wait to be hit 5 times to only gain 25% damage output, since the introduction of mod 3 power is directly perportionial to damage output, that is why reckless attacker works.
There is a large difference between damage from a 9k hit and damage from a 4.5k hit +25%.
A 4.5k hit +25% results in a hit equal to a hit from a player with 4625 power, all other variables being equal.
Sure with the increase in Crit that would help, BUT crit is a variable non constant feature, steady state damage is non variable.
If you wish to change reckless attacker to be based upon stamina that's fine, but please do not totally redesign it as was purposed.
Change one of the other feat trees to this new design instead of reckless attacker.
Most of the people in here are discussing these changes for PvP, that's fine but one variable not discussed for Pve is that damage is a form of aggo which pulls targets off of a tank, everyone has seen it. The tank aggo's and then a CW or HR hits with their insane damage and it pulls the mob off the tank due to the DAMAGE modifiers. So increase marks power to override the other damage modifiers, I know this sounds simplistic, but sometimes the simplest cure is the best.
On the damage output (low damage) everyone is talking about for a tanking GF change the weapon stat bonus to a offensive bonus. Every weapon/shield combo and bonus is def oriented, change one or two of the sets to offense oriented add a/p or crit.
As it stands right now the Mulhonald sword is the only sword stated for offense, it has high power, it has crit, and NO def, why should a sword be stated with defense, it is a offensive tool make it offensive, add crit, a/p or L/S any of the offensive stats.
You as the developers are going to do what you want, that I cannot change, but please do not change a class based upon the wants and needs of only the PVP crowd, there are many more Pve players then there are PVPer's.
I still would like to know if we can count on the current block/run speed - which is REALLY nice or if we should count on this getting dropped down to LIVE - which would hurt us alot.
The extra damage coming through block was hurting quite a bit too, so Im REALLY looking forward to this changing soon!
Overall when I took off the profound armor, my block duration seemed a tad too short. I like the option of having some feats like shield talent that increases the duration we can hold in block, but I just feel that it needs a small duration boost.
Not everyone in PVE and PVP will be running the profound set, while the bonus currently makes block feel adequate, I am fearful swapping out for any other options wont even be possible in its current form. So I think the block duration STILL needs to be increased some.
The capstone feat as you know if not working as its supposed to, its not giving us the full 5 stacks.
Overall though I like the direction its going. A few minor tweaks to block and the capstone and id say the class is pretty overall fair. I know alot of people want the protector tree to get some love too, so that would be nice.
I come from a PvE perspective, and I have tested the new reckless attacker feat (I know it is still bugged). And I can tell you that I am oppsed to the reworked reckless attacker feat from my perspective as well, and this is why:
I have less control over triggering Reckless Attacker than before. It fells like that is now mostly in the hands of the mobs, not anymore in my hand (using/not using shield). In addition the game is now live for a year, and I have built my conqueror GF around this capstone feat. For example, I have upgraded a white companion (sellsword) to rank 30 (purple), as well as a skeleton warrior (now rank 30) and a rebell mercenary (now rank 30). I acquired artifacts that provide additional power, and upgraded them to rank 90 (shard of valindra's crown, GWF class artifact). I grinded for having now rank 9 and rank 10 radiant enchantments. I did this for the additional power that my capstone feat gives me. And now a rework of Reckless Attacker topples all that over?
I had some hope that my class would see improvements, some tweaking of my class. What I see at the preview server instead is a whole rework of the GF, I would even call it a perversion. And this is NOT mainly about the changes making my class not more efficient or not increasing the efficiency enough, this can be debated. This is deeper, it is about the fun itself my class is to play because of its character and feel. I am playing GF and have kept playing it since open beta because of that, because you the developers did a realy good job with the core that makes a GF a GF. Please don't change that.
The improvements which I recommend are many, but I don't want to make one gigantic post, so I will just mention the two most important ones, based on the state of the GF at the LIVE server: 1. Increase the weapon damage. 2. Increase the guard meter, or/and the regeneration rate of the guard meter.
Oh, and before I forget it: colonelwing, shivonomine and others do have a point when they question that these proposed changes to the GF class occur against the backdrop of an opposed majority and a few zealously vocal proponents.
Aryoux, wanna explain the 25% damage vs the 100% power again, they honestly seem to not get it.
Good idea. Tactician´s pagangon tree is becoming obsolete with the new additions to conqueror and protectors. Tacticians need some love to
1) If you cant beat GWFs on the PTR, your doing it wrong. The hardest classes are HR/TR at the moment, im not worried about GWFs because destroyers that can dish out damage, cant take it, and sents cant dish out any damage.
2) The old reckless attacker is ALOT worse for both PVE and PVP. It blows my mind you guys can even say that. Ill tell you what, well go 1v1 my GWF versus your GF on LIVE and you can see how pitiful this "uptime" is you speak of. The ONLY time youll have "uptime" on reckless in pvp is fighting bad players. Now the only thing that makes me nervous about the new version is you need to be hit, so if your not hit you wont get benefit. THis though is the exact same as the Destroyer GWF as they need to be in unstoppable to get dmg boost. So overall I think its fair.
3) You dont even know how the new block is going to work because its not even working correctly, extra damage is coming through currently, people are complaining about damage coming through block, but once its fixed it will be such a low percentage that it really doesnt matter. At wills that were hitting for 1k+ will hit you for like 80 damage, get some regen and youll be fine - they also gave us ALOT more HP via con to deal with this as well.
4) I am going to be on GF for module 4 due to these changes, both Freshour and I are posting to drown out the tears of the uneducated players who say things like "the old block was fine" "the old reckless was better" you really have no idea. If you want to know, ask me in game and I can show you. There are CRAZY synergies you can pull off with this new block that can make you very strong.
My biggest fear is that HRs/TRs will stay as is, and with the new SW coming up - I am guessing there will be balance issues there as well. As far as Mod4 versus mod3 GF, mod 4 will win HANDS DOWN. Now its just a matter of making the class a contender with other classes...
This ^.
1) If it doesn't have the effect and sound I can't notice if it's working, I need something to tell me if the hits I receive were blocked.
2) I agree that my GF looks very silly when we are almost runing with our guard up and it feels weird, I would prefer if we have something in the middle, not so slow like what do we have now, but not so fast like in preview.
I am still skeptical towards the new "supposed to be better" reckless attacker. I am hitting way less on PTS than i do on live and remember, what are we lacking? Damage™. The 10% crit does not make up for a 25% damage loss, 25% less damage means 50% less with KC. That's half of my overall damage output. This is too obvious to claim something else.
With the old reckless attacker there is no uptime as you say, it is constant. The new change purposed is uptime, a GF has to be hit 5 times for a +25 increase, that's uptime. If I am misreading what you are trying to say then I apologize, but your wording is coming across that the old reckless was worse, and the new reckless is better..
To insult others as you are:
4) I am going to be on GF for module 4 due to these changes, both Freshour and I are posting to drown out the tears of the uneducated players who say things like "the old block was fine" "the old reckless was better" you really have no idea. If you want to know, ask me in game and I can show you. There are CRAZY synergies you can pull off with this new block that can make you very strong.
Uneducated well how about this: we have two skills that grant defense debuffs against a foe.
We have a skill that grants +15% damage increase against any foe affected by a control power, well defense debuff is a control power, but I don't think you know that.
Here is another one for you:
Ubiquitous shield, -25% damage against you by foes who have CA against you.
There are others but I will not educate you pertaining to the class.
By your own words you do not play a GF but you are here trying to change the class to suit you for PVP
This goes certainly in the right direction; but would you mind to increase the duration just a bit more? It seems to me now around 9 seconds (or 10 sec at best) and with Shield Talent at 11 seconds (or 12 sec at best). Would it not be better to factor in lags or the like? So giving one or two extra seconds just to give a buffer? Many Encounter powers are somewhat slow and Blocking is nice and good but it brings the Guardian Fighter to nowhere, it gives him no mobility and he has to stand there or to attack but it does not give him opportunities to flee the scene.
Also, the Guardian Fighter still has a hard time to get other defensive stats besides Defence while keeping his offensive stats high enough to do enough damage which scales then with all the Threat modifiers. I do not say, he needs much more but as it is now, after his Block runs out, he is a very squishy class compared to the other tanking options, actually just his Block qualifies him as a slightly better tank than the Great Weapon Fighter in addition to his (GF) better Threat management. The recent changes do not give him that much more damage that would justify this overcautious enhancement (with no other enhancements in terms of survivability, partly because many powers still feel clunky).
That is partly wrong, as Ubiquitous Shield just reduces the effect of Combat Advantage by up to 25% but not the whole damage.
The feat as it is now on the preview won't help the conqueror tree, from my point of view it is more suitable for the tactician path. The conqueror tree is focused on power and recovery (as all the qear for conquerors is...), tacticians have the gear focused on defense and recovery which gives them time (not necessary time, but they can survive more then us) to get those charges and then at the right moment crit. Conqueror isn't a path for major tanking (high defense) is more of a DPS path for the GF that is focused on the power of the hits not on the critical strike and on HPs to tank this way making it prefect pair with the DC which supports the conq (more power = more heal) that was it's purpose and that it should remain.
Tacticians can survive longer because of their capstone talent and the increased gain of Action Points (all the more with the Swordmaster paragon path) and Reckless Attacker would not enhance their survivability, rather it would hinder them: I cannot agree in any way to your point of view.
Dude... do you not read all the posts? Curerntly on PTR the feat isnt working correctly as it only is adding ONE stack @ 5% instead of 5 stacks at 5%... So its missing 20% of its damage atm....
There is no 25% damage loss, weve already gone over the math so I wont do it again. The ONLY way youll see damage loss is going INTO a fight where you normally have full block, can KC someone and dish damage.
But once your IN a fight, your block would drain (or youd die - Im not going to argue this as its fact in high level pvp) and you have ZERO damage boost. SO the change only hurts you starting out, but helps you during the fight - the same way a GWF has to take damage to get unstoppable to gain stacks.
The nice thing about the GF one tho is alot of classes run things like the deflect boon that hits you when THEY deflect, so you can still even build stacks of this from attaking people, also many powers - like repel on CW for instance are AOE and there is a high chance you will get hit for that. Also many HRs run thorn ward on nodes which will constantly hit you.
TLDR: In low level PVP you may arguably see less uptime, in high level PVP youll have ALOT more uptime AND wont die.
I think you may be counting fast? As I tested this with full stamina regen possible, profound gear (boosts guard by 30%) shield talent and the entire works... I got about 8 seconds of block.
Overall I think we both agree, block duration needs to be bumped up just a TAD bit more. I didnt test the "base" duration but maybe add 1 second to it and I think itll be perfect. It would be nice to not feel like you HAVE to slot block enhancements but more that you have a choice to do so.. Right now it feels to me that you HAVE to slot for block to make it viable - which I dont like...
I agree as well, our "stats" really stink. NONE of our gear offers +critical. Hardly any gear offers ARP. Most gear is power/recovery/defense oriented which I dont mind, but it would be nice to have options with offensive stats.
Id like to see weapon set bonuses with power, or arp, or crit, or heck even deflect!!! But we end up with 5k defense, low deflect, low crit, low arp and are FORCED to get those stats on rings/belts etc while all other classes (GWFs for example) get some of that on gear and can use defensive slot items for more HP gain. Im not saying this is a major change needed, but for Mod 4 sets, please give GFs some decent offensive choices and NOT just Power/Rec....
I didn't wanted to say that there is something wrong with tacticians just that I find more crit best for them. And the last feat from the tactician tree is ok I have no problem with it and I don't want it to get changed either.
With the current live reckless attacker we get double the bonus damage and double the bonus healing. And now with the current test version we have the 25% damage and 10% crit after taking 5 hits. This change means we are substituting critical strike for bonus healing which is not that constant from what I tested so far(I manage 34.9% with stone on the test shard). With the current bug of only getting 5% bonus damage this may also be affecting critical strike as well in my opinion from how little I was getting critical strikes.
The difference is we lose the control over reckless attacker now which is a negative and complete scraping of how most gfs like having that impact first lunge at a player. So in this regard to regain some control over our capstone our at wills should be able to give us a stack of reckless. This should have little to no bearing on pve(just faster to 5 stacks) but more of a pvp balance because currently we cannot be ignored but with the preview reckless attacker other players will not have such a priority with attacking us lowering our damage in certain pvp situations when compared to the old reckless.