40% seems too high. Even 30% ends up beating out most "capstone" feats for most classes.
HR Ranged tree = 30%.
The ONLY one thats better than 30% is a GWF which IMO should be scales back some, because 50% is just stupid.
30% seems fair to me.
With GWFs getting a pretty big nerf to unstoppable, with CWs being pushed more towards control, im honestly not interesting in providing balance changes with GFs outgearing content in mind. With that as well, if a GF was able to get crit on Dex, that would be a nice damage boost with a vorpal so there is that as well and ontop of all that, you could block attacks and still have full benefit from the capstone.
Maybe if you think damage would be too low, GFs need a re-work on another feat, but asking for a bigger re-work on a Capstone that would have near 100% uptime @ 30% damage boost seems overkill. Combat Superiority grants a total of 20% bonus damage as well on a T4 feat. Maybe Menacing Impact needs to increase the duration of Villians Mennace for a longer uptime there with more damage.
They already increased the cap on ET as well which will also help.
So again, im more concerned with PVP and future PVE content than focusing on a DPS loss to a CN run by a GF who stacks 8k+ power. Hes probably significantly outgearing the content, which is why he is able to get such DPS boost -> from not having to block.
You have to also think about PVP and I think even the 30% dmg boost would be pretty powerul.
Oh come on,why would you put our damage increase on line with an HR simply because they also have 30% increase in their capstone doesn't justify their larger wpn damage vs the GF.
what i am trying to put here is 30% increase damage is useless in a GF wpn damage.
what we want is something additional for our GF capstones as it is simply luckester compared too all other class.
Protector capstone vs sentinel capstone?
Conqueror capstone vs destroyer captone?
do we even have to compare here?
Also combat superiority doesn't add 20% it's only 15% feated not 20%
the marked is a good group buff but i would also want to benefit from this rather than just allies- i'm sick and tired of being a "buffer pet"
Old block-blocks 100% damage.
New block-block 80% damage.
Old block-can hold up forever until break.Can regen while holding up if no hit is taken.
New block-can hold for 4-5 seconds until break. Cant regen while holding up if no hit is taken.
Old block-too weak even with feats/skill and set bonuses.
New block-Drain too fast even with feats/skill and set bonuses.
Old block-move slow while guard is up.
New block-move faster(?)while guard is up.
Aggravating strike useful for old block not so with new block.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Now which block system would you prefer? For me I choose the old one with some buffs.
Thank you.
Now that block is only 80%, I think its only fair to have it have much more an "uptime" than previously. Think of how many times TRs use stealth, or CWs use Spell Mastery, or GWFs use Unstoppable - MANY times per fight. GFs are the only one who once block is used, have to wait almost 15 seconds for full block again, thats WAY too long IMO.
Agreed.
But I just have to point out that Block is the GF's defensive utility, just like Dodge/Teleport/Shift/Sprint, and not the Class Mechanic like Stealth/Mastery/Unstoppable. I think the devs are molding the Block Mechanic with this in mind. But we also cannot dismiss the fact that the GFs have the most lackluster class mechanic in the game (to the point that we start to think that it's Block, and not Mark which is a terrible mechanic), and how the GFs were modeled was obviously not too well thought out.
What makes the GF's class mechanic so utterly bad is its complete and total lack of interactions with our encounter powers. Let's think of how Clerics, Rogues and Wizards get extra effects for their encounter powers whenever they use their given mechanics, GFs have none of those. What the GFs have instead are 2 extra At-Wills and a 100' range Mark that's good for pulling things... that doesn't sound too useful, right.
I know people are so stressed out with how Block currently is, but we have to remember that this is our Defensive Mechanic. That is so easy to fix and I'm pretty sure the devs already has one that will satisfy those who like the new mechanic and those who like the current one. The bigger, more terrible picture for GFs will not be addressed by deciding which version of Block is better. If we want the GF to improve, we need to get better interactivity with our class mechanic and our class powers. 2 At-Wills from Guarding isn't going to cut it. We have Mark, but what exactly can we do with it? It can buff and debuff but that can only do so little. We need more creative GF encounter interactions with Mark. Or just introduce a new mechanic altogether like that "Taunt Meter" Ayroux and I have been suggesting before (with a couple of personal variations). It would be useful for both PVE and PVP as the Taunt mechanic would reduce the damage our Taunted enemy will deal to our party by 100% with a full meter discharged (5 pips, -20% damage debuff per pip, goes through Immunity), effectively locking him in a 1 vs. 1 combat with you because he'll have to get past you before he reaches your allies. Now THAT is a Guardian, right? If Mark is retained, our encounters should have certain extra effects whenever our enemies are Marked. Interactivity with our true class mechanics will create a better GF.
But I just have to point out that Block is the GF's defensive utility, just like Dodge/Teleport/Shift/Sprint, and not the Class Mechanic like Stealth/Mastery/Unstoppable. I think the devs are molding the Block Mechanic with this in mind. But we also cannot dismiss the fact that the GFs have the most lackluster class mechanic in the game (to the point that we start to think that it's Block, and not Mark which is a terrible mechanic), and how the GFs were modeled was obviously not too well thought out.
What makes the GF's class mechanic so utterly bad is its complete and total lack of interactions with our encounter powers. Let's think of how Clerics, Rogues and Wizards get extra effects for their encounter powers whenever they use their given mechanics, GFs have none of those. What the GFs have instead are 2 extra At-Wills and a 100' range Mark that's good for pulling things... that doesn't sound too useful, right.
I know people are so stressed out with how Block currently is, but we have to remember that this is our Defensive Mechanic. That is so easy to fix and I'm pretty sure the devs already has one that will satisfy those who like the new mechanic and those who like the current one. The bigger, more terrible picture for GFs will not be addressed by deciding which version of Block is better. If we want the GF to improve, we need to get better interactivity with our class mechanic and our class powers. 2 At-Wills from Guarding isn't going to cut it. We have Mark, but what exactly can we do with it? It can buff and debuff but that can only do so little. We need more creative GF encounter interactions with Mark. Or just introduce a new mechanic altogether like that "Taunt Meter" Ayroux and I have been suggesting before (with a couple of personal variations). It would be useful for both PVE and PVP as the Taunt mechanic would reduce the damage our Taunted enemy will deal to our party by 100% with a full meter discharged (5 pips, -20% damage debuff per pip, goes through Immunity), effectively locking him in a 1 vs. 1 combat with you because he'll have to get past you before he reaches your allies. Now THAT is a Guardian, right? If Mark is retained, our encounters should have certain extra effects whenever our enemies are Marked. Interactivity with our true class mechanics will create a better GF.
Old block-blocks 100% damage.
New block-block 80% damage.
Old block-can hold up forever until break.Can regen while holding up if no hit is taken.
New block-can hold for 5-7 seconds until break. Cant regen while holding up if no hit is taken.
Old block-too weak even with feats/skill and set bonuses.
New block-Drain too fast even with feats/skill and set bonuses.
Old block-move slow while guard is up.
New block-move faster(?)while guard is up.
Aggravating strike useful for old block not so with new block.
This is the opinion of one poster on the non official feedback thread. He is pretty much right on everything . This change will be considered a huge NERF for gf class ,one change that no1 wishes to encounter on mod4 .
What makes the GF's class mechanic so utterly bad is its complete and total lack of interactions with our encounter powers. Let's think of how Clerics, Rogues and Wizards get extra effects for their encounter powers whenever they use their given mechanics, GFs have none of those. What the GFs have instead are 2 extra At-Wills and a 100' range Mark that's good for pulling things... that doesn't sound too useful, right.
Because you don't understand how to utilize it properly, mate. Mark adds 16% damage to my spec and it is great, because i can "tag" targets from far away before i actually engange combat, with lunging strike.
Mark is also great against dodging classes, because they think an actual attack is incoming and happily waste their dodges on it. Plus, it is a hard - mark that doesn't wear off upon getting attacked by the tagged target.
Because you don't understand how to utilize it properly, mate. Mark adds 16% damage to my sepc and it is great, because i can "tag" targets from far away before i actually engange combat, with lunging strike.
Mark is also great against dodge happy classes, because they think an actual attack is incoming and happily waste their dodges on it.
Just like how every single GF in the game uses Mark; which is pretty much the only way it can be used. Pull things from afar, lower their DR. Everyone's spec is like that simply because that's the only thing that Mark does.
Friend, how exactly can I be satisfied with such a bland and uncreative mechanic when I see classes with Mechanics like the HR that effectively gives him 6 encounters to use, the GWF which is a reusable CC-break and a Hulk mode, the CW with the 4th encounter slot and an increase in effect potency (a utility knife so to speak), and best of all, the TR which has arguably the best mechanic in the game.
With all these good mechanics in the game, what exactly is stopping the devs from giving the GFs something on par with the ones I mentioned? I like how Mark no longer goes away when the GF is struck, but I'm sure it's not that hard to think of a more creative class mechanic for tanks. That's just what I wanted to raise here, and I'm sure you understand what I'm saying Colonelwing. We don't have to settle for hamburger all the time when we can have steak that everyone else is having.
Friend, how exactly can I be satisfied with such a bland and uncreative mechanic when I see classes with Mechanics like the HR that effectively gives him 6 encounters to use, the GWF which is a reusable CC-break and a Hulk mode, the CW with the 4th encounter slot and an increase in effect potency (a utility knife so to speak), and best of all, the TR which has arguably the best mechanic in the game.
With all these good mechanics in the game, what exactly is stopping the devs from giving the GFs something on par with the ones I mentioned? I like how Mark no longer goes away when the GF is struck, but I'm sure it's not that hard to think of a more creative class mechanic for tanks. That's just what I wanted to raise here, and I'm sure you understand what I'm saying Colonelwing. We don't have to settle for hamburger all the time when we can have steak that everyone else is having.
Because it adds exactly what we are lacking, damage. Not every GF is a meatshield. But yes, you are right about the tanking aspect. They could add some buffs ontop of the 8% dmg increase for that matter (maybe the same amount of damage resistance aka. 8% DR).
Just like how every single GF in the game uses Mark; which is pretty much the only way it can be used. Pull things from afar, lower their DR. Everyone's spec is like that simply because that's the only thing that Mark does.
Friend, how exactly can I be satisfied with such a bland and uncreative mechanic when I see classes with Mechanics like the HR that effectively gives him 6 encounters to use, the GWF which is a reusable CC-break and a Hulk mode, the CW with the 4th encounter slot and an increase in effect potency (a utility knife so to speak), and best of all, the TR which has arguably the best mechanic in the game.
With all these good mechanics in the game, what exactly is stopping the devs from giving the GFs something on par with the ones I mentioned? I like how Mark no longer goes away when the GF is struck, but I'm sure it's not that hard to think of a more creative class mechanic for tanks. That's just what I wanted to raise here, and I'm sure you understand what I'm saying Colonelwing. We don't have to settle for hamburger all the time when we can have steak that everyone else is having.
I agree 100%. we have our shield since we cant dodge or evade attacks and i like that but our tab is much worse than any other chars, i hardly ever use it because most of the time it seems pointless apart from pulling enemies.
The gf should have a defensive tab like the gwf but different since we are a tank, it could give us temporary hp and ad a regen effect or even something to do with CC immunity like the gwf. anything defensive would be great but not the mark, it is just terrible and one of the main reasons why the gf cant compete in any part of the game as much as the other classes is because our tab skill is so bad.
I agree 100%. we have our shield since we cant dodge or evade attacks and i like that but our tab is much worse than any other chars, i hardly ever use it because most of the time it seems pointless apart from pulling enemies.
The gf should have a defensive tab like the gwf but different since we are a tank, it could give us temporary hp and ad a regen effect or even something to do with CC immunity like the gwf. anything defensive would be great but not the mark, it is just terrible and one of the main reasons why the gf cant compete in any part of the game as much as the other classes is because our tab skill is so bad.
Because you don't understand how to utilize it properly, mate. Mark adds 16% damage to my spec and it is great, because i can "tag" targets from far away before i actually engange combat, with lunging strike.
Mark is also great against dodging classes, because they think an actual attack is incoming and happily waste their dodges on it. Plus, it is a hard - mark that doesn't wear off upon getting attacked by the tagged target.
8-16% damage is a lot. Without mark, we would deal way less damage, because the 8% becomes 14% and the 16% (with KC) becomes 29% on critical hits, so it adds ~1/3 to our max dmg output. (with a crit sev of 80%, either half orc of pocket pet adds 5%)
16% damage is a lot. Without mark, we would deal way less damage because the 16% turns into 29% on critical hits.
Lol 16% dmg ? our weapon dmg is near 200 less than everyone elses so 16% doesn't really do much for us and still it doesn't even compare with any other characters tab because wizards get another encounter so they can do way more dmg with that alone then rogues go stealth from that they can run, regen or deal very high dmg, HR gets 6 encounters and gwf gets insane defence and CC immunity even if they are getting nerfed the CC immunity alone is better than ours and clerics get all there encounters buffed and a strong healing at-will so yes i hate the gf tab just 16% dmg on 1 target is terrible and doesn't go with the gf playstyle at all if we are the tank then why give us such a pathetic offensive skill....
Also as for the 29% on a crit, so what ? gf also have worst crit.
Lol 16% dmg ? our weapon dmg is near 200 less than everyone elses so 16% doesn't really do much for us and still it doesn't even compare with any other characters tab because wizards get another encounter so they can do way more dmg with that alone then rogues go stealth from that they can run, regen or deal very high dmg, HR gets 6 encounters and gwf gets insane defence and CC immunity even if they are getting nerfed the CC immunity alone is better than ours and clerics get all there encounters buffed and a strong healing at-will so yes i hate the gf tab just 16% dmg on 1 target is terrible and doesn't go with the gf playstyle at all if we are the tank then why give us such a pathetic offensive skill....
Also as for the 29% on a crit, so what ? gf also have worst crit.
Only meatshields have a bad crit rate, mate. Either, or, is the case (but not neccessarily). My GF has 28% crit 40% arpen and 9k power, for example. But i happen to have two GF, one is a tank and even on the tank i have 20% crit, because critical hits really help with holding aggro.
Only meatshields have a bad crit rate, mate. Either, or, is the case. My GF has 28% crit 40% arpen and 9k power, for example. But i happen to have two GF, one is a tank and even on the tank i have 20% crit, because critical hits really help with holding aggro.
Yes we could get near 30% but that's with a lot put into crit and 3 feat points. what im saying is a gf has terrible dmg and defence we can either go 1 way or the other unlike the TR, GWF and HR who can have both. My gf is full dps i have 8.5k power 1.8k crit and armor pen but i have other slots going for hp and regen since we have low survivability. Other classes have it way easier and im sick of it, if we had a better tab skill then it would bring us a huge step closer to being balanced with them.
How do you get 5-7 sec of block ?
I'm at +30% bloc and +452 in Stamina/Guard (and no particular feat on block) and I'm at max 4 or 5 sec.
4 secs, it's about enough to block one or two attacks in PVE as I have to start a bit before the attack because of lag, and it's like nothing in PvP.
My GF is severely nerfed on test, to the point where I'm playing it a lot less on live as I feel I won't be able to play my main character anymore soon.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
I curently see no point in continuing the game as a gf. already "parked" my main and started my cw.whatever the changes he will still have a place in pve.lets face and it.the gf class demise is set on stone a long ago.if u want to tank just spare urself the sorrow and roll a sentinel gwf.he will still be tankier and hit harder
All they need to do is adjust the current PTR block with one minor change:
- While holding block, you can continue to do so indefinitely - even when your block meter hits zero.
What the meter hitting zero tells you is that you cant immediately let go and press block again. On the PTR, and live, it takes about 4 seconds for enough block to regenerate to be able to block again. This is fine.
So if you want to weave in and out of block , to deal offensive abilities, you need to use precise timing with it, or if you need to hold block for long periods of time, this mechanic would allow that as well as a true defensive tool.
BTW to the post above - my GF was my main with my GWF as my alt for a very long time, GF was my first class and played GF up until Mod 3 - which for me was the last straw on my GF.
NOBODY asked for the block they implemented on the PTR, and as you will notice in my MANY MANY posts on the offical thread about this, they clearly implemented it wrong.
So dont blame me because the DEVs messed it up, the suggestions I make, are the ones that, if implemented, would cause me to want to play my GF again, but currently both LIVE and PTR are just pathetic for a class.
Look....we don't blame you personally.As we see from your posts you are a good forumer and player that cares about GFs.
None holds a grudge against you or anything.We just so sad with the PTR changes and we don't know who to blame first.
And the cold fact is that it was your idea the stamina based block.When you mentioned it some time ago,all the Gfs were negative.We knew it was not for good ,it would make us worse.Yet you fail to see that and you continue to promote the stamina-time based block...
Well admit you were wrong.I know what you will say "guys i meant it not the way devs implelemented it".
Friend,we are talking about devs that have an obsession with GF to keep his role_for them-as a tank,while they do not show the same obsession in keeping the other classes and thier theoretical roles in check.
You should guess that it would turn on a nerf.
We are talking about the devs that will let GWFs to run rampant with an officially game breaking pvp glitch.For 4 months.
While GFs beg for buffs for a year and instead got that enormous nerf.
Old block-blocks 100% damage.
New block-block 80% damage.
Old block-can hold up forever until break.Can regen while holding up if no hit is taken.
New block-can hold for 4-5 seconds until break. Cant regen while holding up if no hit is taken.
Old block-too weak even with feats/skill and set bonuses.
New block-Drain too fast even with feats/skill and set bonuses.
Old block-move slow while guard is up.
New block-move faster(?)while guard is up.
Aggravating strike useful for old block not so with new block.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Now which block system would you prefer? For me I choose the old one with some buffs.
Thank you.
Spot on pretty much, the two at wills while blocking are even more useless now, esp the guard regen.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
0
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
Not to mention those at wills do the most damage of all the GF's at wills as well, specifically Aggravating Strike
Ill again post my suggestions that I believe would make the GF both an offensive and defensive powerhouse in the game (as he should be).
STAT REWORK:
STRENGTH: 2% Guard Meter (up from 1%). 1% Damage Bonus (no change). 1% DoT resist (no change).
CONSTITUTION: *REMOVED* Action Point Gain. 4% HP (same as PTR). 1% Armor Penetration (moved from Dex).
DEXTERITY: 1% Deflection (up from .5%). 1% AoE Damage Resist (no change). .5% Critical Strike (Added to Dex).
What this does is: Buffs Block meter (STR). Buffs Deflection (needed) and gives GFs an ability to get SOME crit on their stats (SEVERELY NEEDED!)
GUARD/BLOCK:
- KEEP the block that exists on the PTR with ONE minor change. When block/stamina meter hits "0" it doesnt remove you from block. The GF has the ability to continue to hold block indefinitely until released. Once releasing block, the stamina bar/block meter will THEN start recharging putting a GF at about 4 seconds of "vulnerability" outside of block.
What this does is: Gives the GF a proper defensive tool to mitigate damage as long as needed (a true tank). Guard only blocks 80% of incoming damage so you STILL take damage, and if "perma" blocking, the GF cant deal any damage, so its a true tradeoff between offensive and defensive. Compared to say GWFs who can facetank AND deal damage, HRs that can kite around thorn word and still deal damage, CWs control while dealing damage ETC. The GF would have the best defensive tool, but cant deal damage while IN it (besides "at wills".
RECKLESS ATTACKER *REWORK*:
Because of the pathetic status of block meter, Reckless attacker would be worthless. Not only should it provide a higher damage boost, but I dont think it should be tied to guard meter at all. What I would propose is IF the stat changes go live, GFs will have a minimum of 5-7% more crit on most GFs. This would allow GFs to STILL have the lowest crit in the game but put them in a decent range (30%ish for PVP and 35%ish for PVE).
So, Changing Reckless attacker to 30% damage bonus for 8 seconds AFTER dealing a critical strike. I want to highlight here, my current GF on LIVE has 6100 Power in Conq PvP Gear. Currently at 100% Block I get a damage bonus from power of 37%. This means Reckless Attacker is only contributing about 18-19% damage boost AT FULL BLOCK. To get an equivalent damage boost from Reckless to the 30% proposed, you would need to be around 10k Power to get a BONUS 30% damage boost from the feat. That is why it NEEDS a re-work.
This would give GFs an ability to use Vorpal again, with more crit, for offensive builds due to the damage bonus and higher crit chance surrounding Dexterity changes.
These changes might make a GF the best node holder 1v1, however I dont think it would be OP in the sense that in PVP it wouldnt be hard to 2v1 a GF down, only truly 1v1 would they really shine in tanking. The Reckless attacker COMBINED with Dex/Crit gives them better offensive tools to deal good damage in PVP.
If these suggestions above went on the PTR, GFs would be very formidable opponents. I would also suggest that feating "FrontLine Surge" with "re-inforced surge" would STILL prone targets in PVP. Only the non-feated one would stun. This would give prones back to GFs as well, which would give them more options on encounters.
Look....we don't blame you personally.As we see from your posts you are a good forumer and player that cares about GFs.
None holds a grudge against you or anything.We just so sad with the PTR changes and we don't know who to blame first.
And the cold fact is that it was your idea the stamina based block.When you mentioned it some time ago,all the Gfs were negative.We knew it was not for good ,it would make us worse.Yet you fail to see that and you continue to promote the stamina-time based block...
Well admit you were wrong.I know what you will say "guys i meant it not the way devs implelemented it".
Friend,we are talking about devs that have an obsession with GF to keep his role_for them-as a tank,while they do not show the same obsession in keeping the other classes and thier theoretical roles in check.
You should guess that it would turn on a nerf.
We are talking about the devs that will let GWFs to run rampant with an officially game breaking pvp glitch.For 4 months.
While GFs beg for buffs for a year and instead got that enormous nerf.
No problem friend with you but we all so sad.....
You do realize im not the first person to post about the suggestion to stamina block, and I still think if done properly it would work amazing.
Block NEEDED a change. Period. I also posted multiple ideas with stamina based being ONE of them. I proposed another option of just having block a fixed damage "pool" but they didnt do that either.
Either way, we all knew a block change was coming. I would almost guarantee the current PTR or LIVE version is not going to be whats in mod 4. I bet Crush will change it in a few weeks and who knows.
I still think stamina block works fine, and again, I would swap it to the indefinite block version of stamina that Ive posted many times (see official thread).
IMO, the Roar glitch is secondary to the HR 4pc set glitch which has been also running rampant.
The only reason I "promote" A stamina based block would be the one I suggested, if they are not going to do it that way, then it wont work. I think part of the problem is, they are taking pieces of each persons suggestions when many suggestions are to be taken as a whole with other suggestions as well.
I not once asked for 80% block. I not once said block should be used when not being attacked. Ontop of that the biggest fail IMO is the absolutely horrid uptime and downtime of block.
No thanks, Ayroux. The shield rework ruined our survivability in PvP already. Your further suggestions would kill our burst damage on top of that. Do you even play your GF? I watched your video and you used one of these prone spamming forum copy & paste specs and you played your GF as if it is a GWF...
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For the love of this class, slow down and think twice before you start suggesting these crazy ideas. 8 seconds in pvp gives us zero advantage, because there is mechanics such as: Dodges, slides, sprint, stealth... These abilities are all able to just ignore the 8 seconds. We might consider removing reckless attacker entirely, because it would be as useless as the PTS block, the way you are suggesting it. Show me how you land a crit, then in a 8 second window land another hit on a HR or TR. I'd really like to see you doing this.
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Also, +30% damage is not the smartest thing one could possibly think of, when it comes to the conq. capstone. +100% is too low already, 30% would be a whooping 2/3 damage nerf. Like i said, think before you actually start suggesting these silly ideas. Not to mention your idea of making vorpal useful on a GF... Are you going to buy us all new weapon enchantments? No? Then why would one suggest something like this, in the first place?
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Besides, comparing our capstone to the HR's capstones doesn't make any sense. Their skills have way higher base damage values and their weapons have a higher weapon damage, than ours. I think it's time to leave the suggesting to those who know how to play a GF properly (no offense). Unless you insist on getting chased around with pitchforks and torches, everytime you try to insert these nonesense suggestions.
Ayroux, you are a pve player so please stop suggesting things like that. im a pvp player and what your saying will not help at all. I already hate the mod 4 changes so why add more pointless things to that list ?
The gf could be fixed in such a simple way, everyone wants more dmg but i disagree since we are meant to be the tank however no way a cleric should have more dmg than us, how does that even make sense lol.
The gf tab should be changed and give us a huge defensive boost, it could happen in many ways like CC immunity, hp regen, temp hitpoints or granting ac and deflect for a certain amount of time.
Our shields should all have deflect on them, a shield is designed for blocking and deflecting so why our deflect sucks makes no sense.
The hp increase is nice and definitely needed but the shield system should stay the way it is now but get a buff to activate faster and be x5 stronger.
And the last thing is for pve players, the gf should get a buff to his skills.
Into the frey: This power should give a natural dmg boost to all party members as well as a defence boost about 5% each and the temp hitpoints it gives is pointless its such a small amount so it never helps.
Knights valor: This power should give the caster some buffs while its active since you take a lot of dmg while using this so a regen boost or defence boost would be nice to make this useful.
Iron warrior: Again the temp hitpoints should be way more and it should add a heal and dmg resistance buff to allies.
enforced threat: this power should make the defences less on the enemies it hits so allies can do more to them.
knights challenge: This would be good if it worked properly and locked people into a real 1v1. both the caster and the enemy shouldn't be able to hit others while this is active and also not be hit by others.
No thanks, Ayroux. The shield rework ruined our survivability in PvP already. Your further suggestions would kill our burst damage on top of that. Do you even play your GF? I watched your video and you used one of these prone spamming forum copy & paste specs and you played your GF as if it is a GWF...
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For the love of this class, slow down and think twice before you start suggesting these crazy ideas. 8 seconds in pvp gives us zero advantage, because there is mechanics such as: Dodges, slides, sprint, stealth... These abilities are all able to just ignore the 8 seconds. We might consider removing reckless attacker entirely, because it would be as useless as the PTS block, the way you are suggesting it. Show me how you land a crit, then in a 8 second window land another hit on a HR or TR. I'd really like to see you doing this.
- Threat rush, *while blocking* stab and shield bash both can crit, and it's not hard at all, so the 8 seconds would give you plenty of time to then use your encounters, so yes, critting and then hitting within 8 seconds is EXTREMELY easy. Dev's all ready said that threat rush is fixed for GF's so we can keep using it. Go 1v1 against any good gwf, or hr, or tr, you'll have to block the big hits, and eventually you're guard will be gone, if you don't block, you'll die even faster. I save my block like CRAZY and it still runs out, so yes. I'm sure he could show you how to land a crit and then an encounter w/in 8 second. I really suggest playing and noticing how easy this would be before you trash his idea. This idea would not only work, but it would work VERY well with the new block design. Heaven forbid we can block AND deal more damage via conq. You guys need to realize that we have never been OP via defense, and this could be our chance to be as good as the other classes.
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Also, +30% damage is not the smartest thing one could possibly think of, when it comes to the conq. capstone. +100% is too low already, 30% would be a whooping 2/3 damage nerf. Like i said, think before you actually start suggesting these silly ideas. Not to mention your idea of making vorpal useful on a GF... Are you going to buy us all new weapon enchantments? No? Then why would one suggest something like this, in the first place?
- There are no other useful wep enchants beside bronzewood and that is sorta like the garage sale GF enchant, as when tested, Vorpal does end up doing more damage. 2/3 damage nerf? Are you saying in a high level fight that you always have full block meter? I mean just blocking one attack puts you equal to this idea, and we would be able to actually block and not worry about losing damage! Again, test this out, see how often in a non sub 10k gear score pug match is your guard meter completely full, ESPECIALLY when you get focused.
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Besides, comparing our capstone to the HR's capstones doesn't make any sense. Their skills have way higher base damage values and their weapons have a higher weapon damage, than ours. I think it's time to leave the suggesting to those who know how to play a GF properly (no offense). Unless you insist on getting chased around with pitchforks and torches, everytime you try to insert these nonesense suggestions.
Why is it nonsense?! It is a damage capstone. HR's have 10x the healing and more damage. So this capstone for the DAMAGE path needs to be looked into. Record yourself playing for an hour, and watch your guard meter, it will not be full if you are in a good match. If you can't get into a good match, ask for an invite and get in a high level match. If you refuse to block for the 100% increase, you will die, over and over again. So this would allow us to take advantage of block and deal more damage than we "usually" do. Aryoux is one of the best pvp'ers on this entire server. If you don't believe, find him in open world, or get a group of five and do a premade. He will absolutely smash you. I have no doubt he knows more about the class than you do, PVP for sure, PVE - probably. I have no idea if you are a part of the pvp community that arranges 5 man premades, or ques with five players and has a competitive match, and if you do, you'd realize how well these will work. If you want to PUG stomp, these changes will also help you continue to do so. Keep in mind which takes more skill, therefore knowledge, and also that you might not be as smart as you think.
Ayroux, you are a pve player so please stop suggesting things like that. im a pvp player and what your saying will not help at all. I already hate the mod 4 changes so why add more pointless things to that list ?
- Are you kidding me? Aryoux is again like I said before one of the best PVP players on the entire server. Ask any of the best guilds, his GF and GWF are top 5 in each category. He makes every single team he is on, better. And at one point was number one of the pvp standings. So please, think before you speak, it would make the things you say carry a lot more weight rather than a bee hive of ignorance.
The gf could be fixed in such a simple way, everyone wants more dmg but i disagree since we are meant to be the tank however no way a cleric should have more dmg than us, how does that even make sense lol.
Clerics do not have more damage than us. I, on a GF have killed some of the BEST clerics in the game. You have to time your prones vs their slides, and keep them on their back and constantly dealing damage again and again and if they are focused on dealing damage, they will ALL die, no questions asked. Yes I have fought arguably one of the best Clerics on the server. I beat him when he went DPS, when he was set up to hold the node, it would have taken a while, but his health WAS going down, and I WAS dealing more damage. So please, think before you type.
The gf tab should be changed and give us a huge defensive boost, it could happen in many ways like CC immunity, hp regen, temp hitpoints or granting ac and deflect for a certain amount of time.
Our shields should all have deflect on them, a shield is designed for blocking and deflecting so why our deflect sucks makes no sense.
A good point
The hp increase is nice and definitely needed but the shield system should stay the way it is now but get a buff to activate faster and be x5 stronger.
To each his own. I think Reckless attacker blows right now. The damage boost is nice, but it is gone before you know it, or at least very rarely full against a good group. Keep in mind I am speaking from a high level game play perspective where they aren't all sub 10k GS with no defense and deflection. The new block system, combined with new capstone would give us a lot more overall damage combined with more defensive capabilities. THINK
And the last thing is for pve players, the gf should get a buff to his skills.
Into the frey: This power should give a natural dmg boost to all party members as well as a defence boost about 5% each and the temp hitpoints it gives is pointless its such a small amount so it never helps.
- I agree, the temp hp boost is not very high, but the run speed, AP gain is pretty freaking sweet. Sure, it does not do enough to be way more viable than any other option, but you cast this in a 2v2 if you have a good damage dealer with you, and watch how much it helps them, not to mention it speeds up your block meter recharge.
Knights valor: This power should give the caster some buffs while its active since you take a lot of dmg while using this so a regen boost or defence boost would be nice to make this useful.
Iron warrior: Again the temp hitpoints should be way more and it should add a heal and dmg resistance buff to allies.
enforced threat: this power should make the defences less on the enemies it hits so allies can do more to them.
knights challenge: This would be good if it worked properly and locked people into a real 1v1. both the caster and the enemy shouldn't be able to hit others while this is active and also not be hit by others.
- I think this feat is pretty solid. It is a tradeoff, you get DOUBLE damage, you shouldn't get a whole lot else as we would end up like a destroyer in unstoppable which is clearly broken. Learn to not put 3 points in this so you can utilize the timer, who knows, if the reckless attacker got put into place, you could get a crit while blocking, then KC, and get the damage bonus you would have lose blocking and waiting to use KC in the first place, so it would end up being a big increase!
One big issue we have is a lot of the good players no longer play their GF. So a lot of the people we have here commenting on the OFFICIAL thread to put it lightly, are a lot more inexperienced than the other class threads.
Aryoux and I have played GF's since beta, he's even played since closed beta. The majority of the time we have played has been completely immersed in pvp, theory crafting pvp builds, pvp gear set up, what we can do to make us more viable in HIGH LEVEL PVP.
If you focus on changes for "Your" builds, rather than step back and look at the class as a whole, your perspective and limited view will be drastically widened.
If you are worried about how your pug matches will go, you will be fine. This won't hurt you enough vs the players you face to make a difference.
BUT, now just bare with me here.
If you actually thought about the high end matches, or even better - youtube some of them, look at the damage they deal, see their resistance, watch the best of each class and how they move/play/interact with the other classes. Because being the best at your class doesn't just mean you know the Guardian Fighter in this case. It means you know how the guardian fighter is vs each class individually. And how you match up with other classes behind you helping you, and how that interaction dictates the outcomes of facing over matchups.
So stop looking at it as your build vs pug.
And start looking at .. (FIRST)
GF vs TR
GF vs HR
GF vs DC
GF vs GWF
GF vs GF
THEN
GF TR vs GF TR
GF TR vs GF HR
GF TR vs GF DC
GF TR vs GF GWF
GF TR vs GF GF
and so on... THEN you just might start to comprehend the complexity of these changes and how they will positively impact those matchups at the higher end of gameplay. And if you do make those changes, to where a GF is more viable in high end pvp. I PROMISE they will see the benefits at the pug level, and PVE level
Look, guy... I believe Calous and i explained to you already, that this nonesense does not work. Not sure if it has something to do with comprehension ability or intelligence in general, since you do not even seem to notice the many flaws on your own. Even a newcomer who plays a GF for 1 day, would notice immediatly how awfully bad all these "suggestions" are. Bronzewood is BiS for GF, btw. We also explained to you, even in detail why that is.
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Judging by your "feedback" you are one of the worst GF out there. You just think that you are good, for some reason. But that clearly cannot be the case... In fact you seem far from understanding even the easiest mechanics, so talking to you is kind of a pointless task anyway. You challenge me to a 1on1 and when you got asked to 1on1 Calous you hid under a rock for days, how come? Weren't you supposed to be the best GF?
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Also, we can all watch Ayroux pug stomp GF pvp video, you know..? Forum spec, copy & paste, prone spam that is, with rank 10's against rank 5's... Nobody cares for how long you guys "play" GF, you said you do not even play this game anymore and Ayroux quit his GF when it was not the FOTM anymore. Get a grip, seriously. All of your claims are pretty much just a delusion.
I see that ayroux changes are good to the IV / Conqueror (with Vorpal) perspective, but there are ppl who choose other things (SW / Protector / Tactician / etc...), so that would be "you focus on changes for "Your" builds" too.
What I don't like is that I would have 0% AP gain from ability scores, also, I don't want this shield system if we aren't able to surpass that 80% DR.
I see that ayroux changes are good to the IV / Conqueror (with Vorpal) perspective, but there are ppl who choose other things (SW / Protector / Tactician / etc...).
Also what I don't like is:
1- I would have 0% AP gain from ability scores.
2- With his rework we would have to wait for those 4 seconds a lot, and in PvE Aggravating Strike would be non-viable.
On a cell phone so cant detail this out. There are feats you can put into to give you AP while blocking. Since you can now block indefinitely if youd like, i dont think losing AP gain on Con will be an issue. Also its not that its ideal FOR vorpal but for any spec. Boosting crit chance and damage via the capstone are necesaary. The only reason i like the dmg after crit is because its easy to do AND it directly is translated from tye PnP Reckless attacker.
I have never met met him in pvp i just thought he was a pve player, it was not meant as a n insult. also clerics do have higher dmg, this is not an opinion its fact. our highest wep dmg is around 660 and clerics have over 800 so there base dmg is way more and the only reason they seem less is because most spec for just healing.
No thanks, Ayroux. The shield rework ruined our survivability in PvP already. Your further suggestions would kill our burst damage on top of that. Do you even play your GF? I watched your video and you used one of these prone spamming forum copy & paste specs and you played your GF as if it is a GWF...
How can indefinite block ruin survivability. You have players from Synergy and ET ALL saying the indefinite block would be VERY strong, possibly even too strong for PVP. Nooone is saying block in its current form is good, even Crush stated that block duration would be increased so even THEY know its not WAI right now.
My suggestions will HELP burst damage. Thats whats funny about this. More crit chance = more burst. If your talking about Reckless attacker re-work, the ONLY way youl get damage bonus from that incurrent PVP is versus BADplayers or BAD pugs. Versus any decent player you wont have any blockmeter. period. So much for your +15-17% damage boost from doublestrength. Now part of the reason you dont think damage after crit will work is because you only run ONE"closer" - Lunging, you waste anencounter slot on KC and to top that ALL off you dont run Threat Rush - whichis almost mandatory in PVP.
I think we will forever disagree because I dont look at "what I want for a GF" I look at "what does a GF need to compete in PVP against other players. It seems to me, and others here that you dont have the experience at that level to make that call, I would also suggest your buddy Calous doesnt either - no offense. I know Calous, we used to (maybe still are) friends, so its funny that is your "source".
Also that video was my
final tribute" to GF since with mod 3, that officially put the nail in the coffin for the class. Whats also funny is you have no idea who your talking to, as ive been playing GF since closed beta and am one of the players who CREATED these builds, just FYI. I can send you a link to a guide I made back in June last year on how to play GF./
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For the love of this class, slow down and think twice before you start suggesting these crazy ideas. 8 seconds in pvp gives us zero advantage, because there is mechanics such as: Dodges, slides, sprint, stealth... These abilities are all able to just ignore the 8 seconds. We might consider removing reckless attacker entirely, because it would be as useless as the PTS block, the way you are suggesting it. Show me how you land a crit, then in a 8 second window land another hit on a HR or TR. I'd really like to see you doing this.
You should heed your own advice. 8 seconds is PLENTY in PVP. Its not hard to get a crit - as was explained already. Ill explain it this way, if a player is attackingyou, youll be blocking and taking little damage. If you are blocking you can easily hit them. Now in LIGHT of YOUR build, the change wont work for cheesing people with KC, as explained above. So you may have to adapt. If they dodge you for 8 seconds they arent dealing damage to you. Its not hard to land a crit and deal damage within 8 seconds. More would be OP, more damage would be OP.
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Also, +30% damage is not the smartest thing one could possibly think of, when it comes to the conq. capstone. +100% is too low already, 30% would be a whooping 2/3 damage nerf. Like i said, think before you actually start suggesting these silly ideas. Not to mention your idea of making vorpal useful on a GF... Are you going to buy us all new weapon enchantments? No? Then why would one suggest something like this, in the first place?
100%? WHAT are you talking about. You dont get 100% damage boost, you get double your power, which on MOST builds in PVP = about 17% damage boost. And if you block - which you do ALL the timeagainst GOOD pvpers you wont haveANY block left which is why its worthless....
Did Crytpicoffer to buy every GWF GPF enchants because they made DEstroyer stacks procoff them? No. You make no point there, thesechanges would also buff ALL weapon enchants.
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Besides, comparing our capstone to the HR's capstones doesn't make any sense. Their skills have way higher base damage values and their weapons have a higher weapon damage, than ours. I think it's time to leave the suggesting to those who know how to play a GF properly (no offense). Unless you insist on getting chased around with pitchforks and torches, everytime you try to insert these nonesense suggestions.
Base weapondamage isnt the issue. Most people havnt really thought about this but our abilities were scaled to our weapon damage. The tooltip on my Bull Charge is about 90% the damage as tooltip on my IBS on my GWF. Weapon damage is ONLY an issue when it comes to weapon enchants because you cant get as muchdamagebecause its allbased onweapon damage for procs. YOur focuedonthe WRONG problem. Its BONUS DAMAGE we need, thats the issue. And a way to survive in pvp.
Look, there are ALOT of things that needchanging onthe GF. But when we try andchange too muchat once the DEVs ignore and dont listen.
So I have picked THREE that I think are the most urgent.
1) Block
2) Stats
3) RecklessAttacker - with thechanges to block, this is needed or its worthless.
All of mysuggestions are to FIX the class and MAY be OP, Id rather have it be OP in PVPandneeding a tone down later than suggest something thats not good enough.
Comments
Oh come on,why would you put our damage increase on line with an HR simply because they also have 30% increase in their capstone doesn't justify their larger wpn damage vs the GF.
what i am trying to put here is 30% increase damage is useless in a GF wpn damage.
what we want is something additional for our GF capstones as it is simply luckester compared too all other class.
Protector capstone vs sentinel capstone?
Conqueror capstone vs destroyer captone?
do we even have to compare here?
Also combat superiority doesn't add 20% it's only 15% feated not 20%
the marked is a good group buff but i would also want to benefit from this rather than just allies- i'm sick and tired of being a "buffer pet"
New block-block 80% damage.
Old block-can hold up forever until break.Can regen while holding up if no hit is taken.
New block-can hold for 4-5 seconds until break. Cant regen while holding up if no hit is taken.
Old block-too weak even with feats/skill and set bonuses.
New block-Drain too fast even with feats/skill and set bonuses.
Old block-move slow while guard is up.
New block-move faster(?)while guard is up.
Aggravating strike useful for old block not so with new block.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Now which block system would you prefer? For me I choose the old one with some buffs.
Thank you.
Agreed.
But I just have to point out that Block is the GF's defensive utility, just like Dodge/Teleport/Shift/Sprint, and not the Class Mechanic like Stealth/Mastery/Unstoppable. I think the devs are molding the Block Mechanic with this in mind. But we also cannot dismiss the fact that the GFs have the most lackluster class mechanic in the game (to the point that we start to think that it's Block, and not Mark which is a terrible mechanic), and how the GFs were modeled was obviously not too well thought out.
What makes the GF's class mechanic so utterly bad is its complete and total lack of interactions with our encounter powers. Let's think of how Clerics, Rogues and Wizards get extra effects for their encounter powers whenever they use their given mechanics, GFs have none of those. What the GFs have instead are 2 extra At-Wills and a 100' range Mark that's good for pulling things... that doesn't sound too useful, right.
I know people are so stressed out with how Block currently is, but we have to remember that this is our Defensive Mechanic. That is so easy to fix and I'm pretty sure the devs already has one that will satisfy those who like the new mechanic and those who like the current one. The bigger, more terrible picture for GFs will not be addressed by deciding which version of Block is better. If we want the GF to improve, we need to get better interactivity with our class mechanic and our class powers. 2 At-Wills from Guarding isn't going to cut it. We have Mark, but what exactly can we do with it? It can buff and debuff but that can only do so little. We need more creative GF encounter interactions with Mark. Or just introduce a new mechanic altogether like that "Taunt Meter" Ayroux and I have been suggesting before (with a couple of personal variations).
This is the opinion of one poster on the non official feedback thread. He is pretty much right on everything . This change will be considered a huge NERF for gf class ,one change that no1 wishes to encounter on mod4 .
Because you don't understand how to utilize it properly, mate. Mark adds 16% damage to my spec and it is great, because i can "tag" targets from far away before i actually engange combat, with lunging strike.
Mark is also great against dodging classes, because they think an actual attack is incoming and happily waste their dodges on it. Plus, it is a hard - mark that doesn't wear off upon getting attacked by the tagged target.
Just like how every single GF in the game uses Mark; which is pretty much the only way it can be used. Pull things from afar, lower their DR. Everyone's spec is like that simply because that's the only thing that Mark does.
Friend, how exactly can I be satisfied with such a bland and uncreative mechanic when I see classes with Mechanics like the HR that effectively gives him 6 encounters to use, the GWF which is a reusable CC-break and a Hulk mode, the CW with the 4th encounter slot and an increase in effect potency (a utility knife so to speak), and best of all, the TR which has arguably the best mechanic in the game.
With all these good mechanics in the game, what exactly is stopping the devs from giving the GFs something on par with the ones I mentioned? I like how Mark no longer goes away when the GF is struck, but I'm sure it's not that hard to think of a more creative class mechanic for tanks. That's just what I wanted to raise here, and I'm sure you understand what I'm saying Colonelwing. We don't have to settle for hamburger all the time when we can have steak that everyone else is having.
Because it adds exactly what we are lacking, damage. Not every GF is a meatshield. But yes, you are right about the tanking aspect. They could add some buffs ontop of the 8% dmg increase for that matter (maybe the same amount of damage resistance aka. 8% DR).
I agree 100%. we have our shield since we cant dodge or evade attacks and i like that but our tab is much worse than any other chars, i hardly ever use it because most of the time it seems pointless apart from pulling enemies.
The gf should have a defensive tab like the gwf but different since we are a tank, it could give us temporary hp and ad a regen effect or even something to do with CC immunity like the gwf. anything defensive would be great but not the mark, it is just terrible and one of the main reasons why the gf cant compete in any part of the game as much as the other classes is because our tab skill is so bad.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Oi, refer to my selfquote:
8-16% damage is a lot. Without mark, we would deal way less damage, because the 8% becomes 14% and the 16% (with KC) becomes 29% on critical hits, so it adds ~1/3 to our max dmg output. (with a crit sev of 80%, either half orc of pocket pet adds 5%)
Lol 16% dmg ? our weapon dmg is near 200 less than everyone elses so 16% doesn't really do much for us and still it doesn't even compare with any other characters tab because wizards get another encounter so they can do way more dmg with that alone then rogues go stealth from that they can run, regen or deal very high dmg, HR gets 6 encounters and gwf gets insane defence and CC immunity even if they are getting nerfed the CC immunity alone is better than ours and clerics get all there encounters buffed and a strong healing at-will so yes i hate the gf tab just 16% dmg on 1 target is terrible and doesn't go with the gf playstyle at all if we are the tank then why give us such a pathetic offensive skill....
Also as for the 29% on a crit, so what ? gf also have worst crit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Only meatshields have a bad crit rate, mate. Either, or, is the case (but not neccessarily). My GF has 28% crit 40% arpen and 9k power, for example. But i happen to have two GF, one is a tank and even on the tank i have 20% crit, because critical hits really help with holding aggro.
Yes we could get near 30% but that's with a lot put into crit and 3 feat points. what im saying is a gf has terrible dmg and defence we can either go 1 way or the other unlike the TR, GWF and HR who can have both. My gf is full dps i have 8.5k power 1.8k crit and armor pen but i have other slots going for hp and regen since we have low survivability. Other classes have it way easier and im sick of it, if we had a better tab skill then it would bring us a huge step closer to being balanced with them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm at +30% bloc and +452 in Stamina/Guard (and no particular feat on block) and I'm at max 4 or 5 sec.
4 secs, it's about enough to block one or two attacks in PVE as I have to start a bit before the attack because of lag, and it's like nothing in PvP.
My GF is severely nerfed on test, to the point where I'm playing it a lot less on live as I feel I won't be able to play my main character anymore soon.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Look....we don't blame you personally.As we see from your posts you are a good forumer and player that cares about GFs.
None holds a grudge against you or anything.We just so sad with the PTR changes and we don't know who to blame first.
And the cold fact is that it was your idea the stamina based block.When you mentioned it some time ago,all the Gfs were negative.We knew it was not for good ,it would make us worse.Yet you fail to see that and you continue to promote the stamina-time based block...
Well admit you were wrong.I know what you will say "guys i meant it not the way devs implelemented it".
Friend,we are talking about devs that have an obsession with GF to keep his role_for them-as a tank,while they do not show the same obsession in keeping the other classes and thier theoretical roles in check.
You should guess that it would turn on a nerf.
We are talking about the devs that will let GWFs to run rampant with an officially game breaking pvp glitch.For 4 months.
While GFs beg for buffs for a year and instead got that enormous nerf.
No problem friend
Spot on pretty much, the two at wills while blocking are even more useless now, esp the guard regen.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
STAT REWORK:
STRENGTH: 2% Guard Meter (up from 1%). 1% Damage Bonus (no change). 1% DoT resist (no change).
CONSTITUTION: *REMOVED* Action Point Gain. 4% HP (same as PTR). 1% Armor Penetration (moved from Dex).
DEXTERITY: 1% Deflection (up from .5%). 1% AoE Damage Resist (no change). .5% Critical Strike (Added to Dex).
What this does is: Buffs Block meter (STR). Buffs Deflection (needed) and gives GFs an ability to get SOME crit on their stats (SEVERELY NEEDED!)
GUARD/BLOCK:
- KEEP the block that exists on the PTR with ONE minor change. When block/stamina meter hits "0" it doesnt remove you from block. The GF has the ability to continue to hold block indefinitely until released. Once releasing block, the stamina bar/block meter will THEN start recharging putting a GF at about 4 seconds of "vulnerability" outside of block.
What this does is: Gives the GF a proper defensive tool to mitigate damage as long as needed (a true tank). Guard only blocks 80% of incoming damage so you STILL take damage, and if "perma" blocking, the GF cant deal any damage, so its a true tradeoff between offensive and defensive. Compared to say GWFs who can facetank AND deal damage, HRs that can kite around thorn word and still deal damage, CWs control while dealing damage ETC. The GF would have the best defensive tool, but cant deal damage while IN it (besides "at wills".
RECKLESS ATTACKER *REWORK*:
Because of the pathetic status of block meter, Reckless attacker would be worthless. Not only should it provide a higher damage boost, but I dont think it should be tied to guard meter at all. What I would propose is IF the stat changes go live, GFs will have a minimum of 5-7% more crit on most GFs. This would allow GFs to STILL have the lowest crit in the game but put them in a decent range (30%ish for PVP and 35%ish for PVE).
So, Changing Reckless attacker to 30% damage bonus for 8 seconds AFTER dealing a critical strike. I want to highlight here, my current GF on LIVE has 6100 Power in Conq PvP Gear. Currently at 100% Block I get a damage bonus from power of 37%. This means Reckless Attacker is only contributing about 18-19% damage boost AT FULL BLOCK. To get an equivalent damage boost from Reckless to the 30% proposed, you would need to be around 10k Power to get a BONUS 30% damage boost from the feat. That is why it NEEDS a re-work.
This would give GFs an ability to use Vorpal again, with more crit, for offensive builds due to the damage bonus and higher crit chance surrounding Dexterity changes.
These changes might make a GF the best node holder 1v1, however I dont think it would be OP in the sense that in PVP it wouldnt be hard to 2v1 a GF down, only truly 1v1 would they really shine in tanking. The Reckless attacker COMBINED with Dex/Crit gives them better offensive tools to deal good damage in PVP.
If these suggestions above went on the PTR, GFs would be very formidable opponents. I would also suggest that feating "FrontLine Surge" with "re-inforced surge" would STILL prone targets in PVP. Only the non-feated one would stun. This would give prones back to GFs as well, which would give them more options on encounters.
You do realize im not the first person to post about the suggestion to stamina block, and I still think if done properly it would work amazing.
Block NEEDED a change. Period. I also posted multiple ideas with stamina based being ONE of them. I proposed another option of just having block a fixed damage "pool" but they didnt do that either.
Either way, we all knew a block change was coming. I would almost guarantee the current PTR or LIVE version is not going to be whats in mod 4. I bet Crush will change it in a few weeks and who knows.
I still think stamina block works fine, and again, I would swap it to the indefinite block version of stamina that Ive posted many times (see official thread).
IMO, the Roar glitch is secondary to the HR 4pc set glitch which has been also running rampant.
The only reason I "promote" A stamina based block would be the one I suggested, if they are not going to do it that way, then it wont work. I think part of the problem is, they are taking pieces of each persons suggestions when many suggestions are to be taken as a whole with other suggestions as well.
I not once asked for 80% block. I not once said block should be used when not being attacked. Ontop of that the biggest fail IMO is the absolutely horrid uptime and downtime of block.
No thanks, Ayroux. The shield rework ruined our survivability in PvP already. Your further suggestions would kill our burst damage on top of that. Do you even play your GF? I watched your video and you used one of these prone spamming forum copy & paste specs and you played your GF as if it is a GWF...
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For the love of this class, slow down and think twice before you start suggesting these crazy ideas. 8 seconds in pvp gives us zero advantage, because there is mechanics such as: Dodges, slides, sprint, stealth... These abilities are all able to just ignore the 8 seconds. We might consider removing reckless attacker entirely, because it would be as useless as the PTS block, the way you are suggesting it. Show me how you land a crit, then in a 8 second window land another hit on a HR or TR. I'd really like to see you doing this.
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Also, +30% damage is not the smartest thing one could possibly think of, when it comes to the conq. capstone. +100% is too low already, 30% would be a whooping 2/3 damage nerf. Like i said, think before you actually start suggesting these silly ideas. Not to mention your idea of making vorpal useful on a GF... Are you going to buy us all new weapon enchantments? No? Then why would one suggest something like this, in the first place?
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Besides, comparing our capstone to the HR's capstones doesn't make any sense. Their skills have way higher base damage values and their weapons have a higher weapon damage, than ours. I think it's time to leave the suggesting to those who know how to play a GF properly (no offense). Unless you insist on getting chased around with pitchforks and torches, everytime you try to insert these nonesense suggestions.
The gf could be fixed in such a simple way, everyone wants more dmg but i disagree since we are meant to be the tank however no way a cleric should have more dmg than us, how does that even make sense lol.
The gf tab should be changed and give us a huge defensive boost, it could happen in many ways like CC immunity, hp regen, temp hitpoints or granting ac and deflect for a certain amount of time.
Our shields should all have deflect on them, a shield is designed for blocking and deflecting so why our deflect sucks makes no sense.
The hp increase is nice and definitely needed but the shield system should stay the way it is now but get a buff to activate faster and be x5 stronger.
And the last thing is for pve players, the gf should get a buff to his skills.
Into the frey: This power should give a natural dmg boost to all party members as well as a defence boost about 5% each and the temp hitpoints it gives is pointless its such a small amount so it never helps.
Knights valor: This power should give the caster some buffs while its active since you take a lot of dmg while using this so a regen boost or defence boost would be nice to make this useful.
Iron warrior: Again the temp hitpoints should be way more and it should add a heal and dmg resistance buff to allies.
enforced threat: this power should make the defences less on the enemies it hits so allies can do more to them.
knights challenge: This would be good if it worked properly and locked people into a real 1v1. both the caster and the enemy shouldn't be able to hit others while this is active and also not be hit by others.
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My responses to your points are in red
Replies are in red
Aryoux and I have played GF's since beta, he's even played since closed beta. The majority of the time we have played has been completely immersed in pvp, theory crafting pvp builds, pvp gear set up, what we can do to make us more viable in HIGH LEVEL PVP.
If you focus on changes for "Your" builds, rather than step back and look at the class as a whole, your perspective and limited view will be drastically widened.
If you are worried about how your pug matches will go, you will be fine. This won't hurt you enough vs the players you face to make a difference.
BUT, now just bare with me here.
If you actually thought about the high end matches, or even better - youtube some of them, look at the damage they deal, see their resistance, watch the best of each class and how they move/play/interact with the other classes. Because being the best at your class doesn't just mean you know the Guardian Fighter in this case. It means you know how the guardian fighter is vs each class individually. And how you match up with other classes behind you helping you, and how that interaction dictates the outcomes of facing over matchups.
So stop looking at it as your build vs pug.
And start looking at .. (FIRST)
GF vs TR
GF vs HR
GF vs DC
GF vs GWF
GF vs GF
THEN
GF TR vs GF TR
GF TR vs GF HR
GF TR vs GF DC
GF TR vs GF GWF
GF TR vs GF GF
and so on... THEN you just might start to comprehend the complexity of these changes and how they will positively impact those matchups at the higher end of gameplay. And if you do make those changes, to where a GF is more viable in high end pvp. I PROMISE they will see the benefits at the pug level, and PVE level
Look, guy... I believe Calous and i explained to you already, that this nonesense does not work. Not sure if it has something to do with comprehension ability or intelligence in general, since you do not even seem to notice the many flaws on your own. Even a newcomer who plays a GF for 1 day, would notice immediatly how awfully bad all these "suggestions" are. Bronzewood is BiS for GF, btw. We also explained to you, even in detail why that is.
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Judging by your "feedback" you are one of the worst GF out there. You just think that you are good, for some reason. But that clearly cannot be the case... In fact you seem far from understanding even the easiest mechanics, so talking to you is kind of a pointless task anyway. You challenge me to a 1on1 and when you got asked to 1on1 Calous you hid under a rock for days, how come? Weren't you supposed to be the best GF?
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Also, we can all watch Ayroux pug stomp GF pvp video, you know..? Forum spec, copy & paste, prone spam that is, with rank 10's against rank 5's... Nobody cares for how long you guys "play" GF, you said you do not even play this game anymore and Ayroux quit his GF when it was not the FOTM anymore. Get a grip, seriously. All of your claims are pretty much just a delusion.
What I don't like is that I would have 0% AP gain from ability scores, also, I don't want this shield system if we aren't able to surpass that 80% DR.
On a cell phone so cant detail this out. There are feats you can put into to give you AP while blocking. Since you can now block indefinitely if youd like, i dont think losing AP gain on Con will be an issue. Also its not that its ideal FOR vorpal but for any spec. Boosting crit chance and damage via the capstone are necesaary. The only reason i like the dmg after crit is because its easy to do AND it directly is translated from tye PnP Reckless attacker.
I have never met met him in pvp i just thought he was a pve player, it was not meant as a n insult. also clerics do have higher dmg, this is not an opinion its fact. our highest wep dmg is around 660 and clerics have over 800 so there base dmg is way more and the only reason they seem less is because most spec for just healing.
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Base weapondamage isnt the issue. Most people havnt really thought about this but our abilities were scaled to our weapon damage. The tooltip on my Bull Charge is about 90% the damage as tooltip on my IBS on my GWF. Weapon damage is ONLY an issue when it comes to weapon enchants because you cant get as muchdamagebecause its allbased onweapon damage for procs. YOur focuedonthe WRONG problem. Its BONUS DAMAGE we need, thats the issue. And a way to survive in pvp.
Look, there are ALOT of things that needchanging onthe GF. But when we try andchange too muchat once the DEVs ignore and dont listen.
So I have picked THREE that I think are the most urgent.
1) Block
2) Stats
3) RecklessAttacker - with thechanges to block, this is needed or its worthless.
All of mysuggestions are to FIX the class and MAY be OP, Id rather have it be OP in PVPandneeding a tone down later than suggest something thats not good enough.