It would be too much of a nerf to what we are currently lacking, which is Damage... So idk if this would actually work, because 100% for other classes is like 500% for ourselves and with a whooping -20% (way more actually, if all damage addons are factored in) we would hit like a wet noodle, even more than we currently do, while our targets will still be able to happily flail away on us... Nice idea but the values are not well thought out.
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On a sidenote, aren't you playing fotm classes exclusively? (TR,HR,GWF when they used to be ZOMG l33t111!!!?) I believe i can remember you saying you quit your GF when the stalwart got reworked (aka you could not 1 shot people anymore) and you kind of quit your GWF when tenebrous couldn't really roflstomp anything anymore? Why are you suggesting nerfs to this class? In order to kill it more easily with your new fotm, or? I don't really get it.
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IF anything, we should do considerably MORE damage as conquerors, not the other way around.
^^^
This.Every Ayroux proposal hides in it a nerf.Stamina based block is clearly a nerf for pvp no matter the future adjustments and reworks.
His proposal to change the Conq capstone from 100% power to a 30% more crit for 8 secs is a nerf too.Gfs already have low crit.i know 13-15gs GFs who have less than 12% .And from their point of view they are correct.Even if they invest heavily for crit in the end they will mot pass easily the 22-24% in pvp.So they just stack arm pen and power.30% more crit to a 15% crit toon is just a lame 20% in the end.And only for 8 secs!!!!Impossible to land more than one in a TR/HR/CW.
The 99% of Gfs asks for more damage and block meter.Simple as that.Out Into the fray could also be buffed for pve(more temp hit points to team8s)
Ah i forgot!!He is against the Armor of Bahamut rework currently in ptr.He says that is equal to a 10% DR which is too much for a t1 feat....And suggest that it must go deeper into protector tree...i am seriously seriously starting to question his motives....
^^^
This.Every Ayroux proposal hides in it a nerf.Stamina based block is clearly a nerf for pvp no matter the future adjustments and reworks.
His proposal to change the Conq capstone from 100% power to a 30% more crit for 8 secs is a nerf too.Gfs already have low crit.i know 13-15gs GFs who have less than 12% .And from their point of view they are correct.Even if they invest heavily for crit in the end they will mot pass easily the 22-24% in pvp.So they just stack arm pen and power.30% more crit to a 15% crit toon is just a lame 20% in the end.And only for 8 secs!!!!Impossible to land more than one in a TR/HR/CW.
The 99% of Gfs asks for more damage and block meter.Simple as that.Out Into the fray could also be buffed for pve(more temp hit points to team8s)
Ah i forgot!!He is against the Armor of Bahamut rework currently in ptr.He says that is equal to a 10% DR which is too much for a t1 feat....And suggest that it must go deeper into protector tree...i am seriously seriously starting to question his motives....
His motive is, to get every skill that i am using nerfed, because i do not agree with what he and his buddy think, even though both of them are wrong with almost everything they mention. They didn't quit their non fotm classes for no reason, while i kept successfully playing the so called weakest class there is. Let that sink in for a while and build your own opinion. They think by spamming the same things over and over again it gives them some sort of advantage over/against my opinions, somehow. It's a strange wide world we're living in, after all.
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To me this is almost pitiful behaviour, but there's also nothing i can do about it other than prooving them wrong when i have to, which is on almost every single one of their suggestions (nerf cries), sadly.
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So don't be shy and voice your opinion and what you are against, these guys are as harmless as an infant, don't worry. But as i mentioned, they are spamming the official feedback thread in order to achieve their goals. If we don't act, the valley will be overrun (aka. our class will be dead).
^^^
This.Every Ayroux proposal hides in it a nerf.Stamina based block is clearly a nerf for pvp no matter the future adjustments and reworks.
His proposal to change the Conq capstone from 100% power to a 30% more crit for 8 secs is a nerf too.Gfs already have low crit.i know 13-15gs GFs who have less than 12% .And from their point of view they are correct.Even if they invest heavily for crit in the end they will mot pass easily the 22-24% in pvp.So they just stack arm pen and power.30% more crit to a 15% crit toon is just a lame 20% in the end.And only for 8 secs!!!!Impossible to land more than one in a TR/HR/CW.
The 99% of Gfs asks for more damage and block meter.Simple as that.Out Into the fray could also be buffed for pve(more temp hit points to team8s)
Ah i forgot!!He is against the Armor of Bahamut rework currently in ptr.He says that is equal to a 10% DR which is too much for a t1 feat....And suggest that it must go deeper into protector tree...i am seriously seriously starting to question his motives....
YOu guys clearly didnt see I changed the Capstone in the tree because you dont think its good enough, maybe it wasnt...
Reckless I changed to 30% more damage to marked targets.... that should be happy...
Also the REASON it is too good for a T1 feat is IN LIGHT of being able to perma hold block. You clearly didnt see the ALL RED CAPS in my post that said "these are not to be taken in isolation"
So what I proposed is keeping block at 80% and if you indefinitely hold block after stamina expires its only half as effective, Well if you get 10% more DR - even at half the blocks effectiveness it still makes you SUPER tanky.
Ill tell you my motivations:
I love my GF, I played GF up until mod 3 released as my "primary" character. Even mod 2 my GF was my primary and I farmed Profound gear on him as soon as it was released, so dont give me <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about not playing my toon. I have TWO 60 GFs. GF is my first class and my favorite class.
Where my opinion differs from others is I have been around and played GF in top tier PVP so I know what it was like when they worked and what killed them.
I continue to play in top tier pvp - although you CANT have a GF in top tier pvp. So on my GWF I see how the META is played and what a GF needs to survive.
I dont give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you pug stomp with Knights Cheese and post here saying you have all these +damage % numbers so your super good and want more damage.
I care about the current PVP meta, what is required of classes and roles in PVP and what a GF needs to survive. This is why, I continue to post over and over and over, I WANT to play GF again, I want them to succeed and be strong.
GFs have amazing potential and just need few minor tweaks. BTW, I dont play FOTM classes, I have been playing GF since beta, I also leveld a GWF when they were bad and played him when they were bad and continued to play BOTH fighter classes but only ever played GF in premades ALL the way through module 1 and STILL in module 2 as well. I only leveled a TR (and made a video) out of sheer boredom which I NEVER played "perma" - eventhough I had all the tenebrous enchants and bilethorn to do so, but thought it was stupid and a true "FOTM" build. I Dont have an HR either which is the TRUE FOTM class for mod 3.
So dont feed me bull **** for playing the SAME fighter classes I have been for well over a year now and saying I play FOTM classes. Also why would my Sig even say "GFs need changes" - which has been there for a LONG time if I didnt want buffs for the class.
If my changes went LIVE and you still cant play a GF - thats on you because they would be MORE Than a viable class in the current PVP meta... If anything my changes would be TOO good - as Calous already explained - which is why I edited to say perma block is only half as effective to compromise.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited July 2014
30% increased for a conqueror capstone is a Joke, i already told you that since we have the lowest wpn damage -
GWF have more than 30% for their destroyer and have the highest wpn damage yet you are suggesting that we only get 30% and now instead of a crit trigger it goes to mark targets - so lets see i would need to use enforce threat,Tab and TR to do the marking to get my 30% instead of having a 100% increased today as long as i don't use block in live.
30% increased for a conqueror capstone is a Joke, i already told you that since we have the lowest wpn damage -
GWF have more than 30% for their destroyer and have the highest wpn damage yet you are suggesting that we only get 30% and now instead of a crit trigger it goes to mark targets - so lets see i would need to use enforce threat,Tab and TR to do the marking to get my 30% instead of having a 100% increased today as long as i don't use block in live.
Name me ONE other capstone that gives MORE than 30% damage... ONLY GWFs get more and look what it got them - more nerfs.
HRs capstone is 30% more damage to ONE target. GFs can have many marked at once. HRs also have to use an encounter to THEN get the buff, GFs can use tab anytime.
Name a TR capstone that gives a 30% dmg boost....
The current GF one doesnt give 30%... I have over 6k power and I only get about 17% damage boost from it, with FULL block.
Also while I AGREE we should have higher weapon damage, our abilities were scaled to our weapon damage - as I already explained to you.
Most of my tooltip damage on my GF is HIGHER than my GWF tooltip damage. Weapon damage is NOT the issue.
The issue is ALL the bonus damage other classes get. Honestly none of this was even an issue up until Module 2, so why was weapon damage not a problem then but it is now? Weapon damage ISNT what changed, feats/gear/boons are what changed.
30% is MORE than fair for a damage boost, in fact a 30% damage boost to marked targets is the second best capstone in the game. You sir, are being greedy.
Most of my tooltip damage on my GF is HIGHER than my GWF tooltip damage.
WHAT?
Please screen shot these because, find it extremely hard to believe every GWF ability that is same as a GF was doubled tripled in damage in comparison.
Please show screen shot and don't un-equip all your GWF gear first either!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Love the tab idea thanks for buffing that but im not sure about the reckless attacker change, that means my power is halved and i have to take dmg to deal more ? not sure how its gonna work but at least when our shield is broken our power isn't halved then also can anyone post the dmg difference with 5 stacks of this compared to the old reckless attacker please ?
Thanks for your posts and effort crush, i am looking forward to some of the changes now
My biggest concern here would be if the stacks 1) refresh themselves and 2) if they can proc off DoTs.
If they can and do, then I would imagine youll have almost 100%uptime in pvp. The only difference would be on FIRST encounter if the GF is not hit to build stacks.
What I will tell you though about the damage difference is this:
at 6700 power (so 3350 base) I get 40% damage boost meaning the capstone gave me a 20% damage boost.
at 6100 power (3050 base) I get 37% damage boost meaning i only got an 18.5% damage boost.
at 5637 power = 34% damage (17% capstone)
at 5127 power = 31% (15.5% capstone)
All of that is full guard BTW which I almost never had in PVP. Then when you factor in the damage as crit gain even without vorpal, that 10% crit equals roughly about another ~7% damage boost. So overall the capstone is giving a potential for 32%+ damage - which based on my ROUGH math, would be the same as about 12k-13k power on the current capstone (32% damage bonus @ about 200 power per 1% damage bonus = 6400 BONUS power needed = 6400 BASE power needed for 12.8k power boosted through capstone)
Thanks, 1 thing that I want to know is if supposedly we should be blocking more than the 80% of the total damage?, for example, if I receive just the 40% of the total damage then I should be blocking 92% of the damage (because I would be receiving 40% * .2 = 8%), but in the preview I couldn't block more than the 80% with the guard up (at least that was the last time I tested my GF in preview).
I dont get how you get your math.
Most GFs average 50% DR. Block blocks 80% damage.
So 20% damage gets through mutiplied by 50% = 10% damage gets through block.
What I will tell you though about the damage difference is this:
at 6700 power (so 3350 base) I get 40% damage boost meaning the capstone gave me a 20% damage boost.
at 6100 power (3050 base) I get 37% damage boost meaning i only got an 18.5% damage boost.
at 5637 power = 34% damage (17% capstone)
at 5127 power = 31% (15.5% capstone)
All of that is full guard BTW which I almost never had in PVP. Then when you factor in the damage as crit gain even without vorpal, that 10% crit equals roughly about another ~7% damage boost. So overall the capstone is giving a potential for 32%+ damage - which based on my ROUGH math, would be the same as about 12k-13k power on the current capstone (32% damage bonus @ about 200 power per 1% damage bonus = 6400 BONUS power needed = 6400 BASE power needed for 12.8k power boosted through capstone)
For power, its 166 power per 1% damage boost (which you can even tell roughly from the first few numbers you posted. So, based on the 25% bonus and 7% (your approximation) from crit for a total of 32% damage bonus, the new capstone is worth ~5,312 power.
So 20% damage gets through mutiplied by 50% = 10% damage gets through block.
Well, it's irrelevant if I receive 50% or 40% of the damage (I tested a lot time ago and I thin I was getting the 39.something % of the raw damage, I think it's because of Armor Specialization or my memory is bad ), just wanted to know if we will block over 80% of the damage with guard up or if it's gonna be the limit (which in that case having a lot of DR or having very little would mean no difference while you guard).
Please screen shot these because, find it extremely hard to believe every GWF ability that is same as a GF was doubled tripled in damage in comparison.
Please show screen shot and don't un-equip all your GWF gear first either!
Here is my BASE tooltip damage for both GWF and GF - ZERO buffs (with Conq Capstone however). Keep in mind, I have a VERY low STR roll on this toon (15). When you net out the Capstone, it removes about 17.5% damage buff so I would then only be slightly lower.
Bull Charge is slightly higher with GF capstone. The issue (as ive said before) isnt as much the weapon damage but it IS the insane bonus damage GWFs get.
~40% from Destroyers Purpose and 40-50% from capstone.
For further clarification on this.
My GF Frontline Surge top end is 3228 (with double power)
My GWF frontline Surge top end is 3296
Please screen shot these because, find it extremely hard to believe every GWF ability that is same as a GF was doubled tripled in damage in comparison.
Please show screen shot and don't un-equip all your GWF gear first either!
GF do have strong skills/damage, cleave for example is the hardest hitting aoe at-will i think. GWF have unstoppable which increases attack speed, better feats and itemisation and stat bonuses (ArP from CON) which put their damage way ahead.
With the new direction/changes GF damage isn't the solution, rather being able to survive the 20 cap taunt. (hopefully the new block will address this). If all goes according to plan we will be desirable,
and our single target will be on-par with the team with the new mark, (bull charge/knights challenge/anvil setup).
New tests must be run before asking for more now, the new changes for the other classes also impact the viability of GFs. (GWF one for example gave more viability for GFs, and the newer CW CC nerf/fix will need to be tested too)
For power, its 166 power per 1% damage boost (which you can even tell roughly from the first few numbers you posted. So, based on the 25% bonus and 7% (your approximation) from crit for a total of 32% damage bonus, the new capstone is worth ~5,312 power.
Thanks for the clarification. I just eye balled it at 200 power.
So 5312 power *2 = 10.6k power would give roughly the same as the new capstone.
As far as the reason we don't want to go with unlimited block that scales up and down in potency (which was one of the prototypes we did try internally) was because of the difficult interaction with healers. The new block allows for more healer interactions by letting some degree of consistent damage through
As a person who plays a DC often I don't agree with this. In particular the changes that will turn the GF's in to walking singularities of aggro actually worry me. My DC, like most good ones who play today, is primarily focused on debuffing mobs and damage mitigation. Healing is just bonus. My DC's healing capabilities are rather limited regardless and I couldn't imagine trying to keep some meat shield alive in a sea of mobs.
Please reconsider giving the GF's 100% block when their shield is up. Also, are they still vulnerable if hit from the sides and back? If so that needs to be addressed too. Thanks.
And no, I don't play a GF or have ever played one but I felt I needed to comment on this.
They are adding a cap of 10 stacks for Wilds medicine already the next update to preview, which should be this week according to gentlemancrush, if nothing goes wrong and delays it.
Sorry, I didn't read all the pages of the thread.
Anyway, glad to see it, even if maybe 15 would have been better in order to make combat HR viable in PVE.
As a person who plays a DC often I don't agree with this. In particular the changes that will turn the GF's in to walking singularities of aggro actually worry me. My DC, like most good ones who play today, is primarily focused on debuffing mobs and damage mitigation. Healing is just bonus. My DC's healing capabilities are rather limited regardless and I couldn't imagine trying to keep some meat shield alive in a sea of mobs.
Please reconsider giving the GF's 100% block when their shield is up. Also, are they still vulnerable if hit from the sides and back? If so that needs to be addressed too. Thanks.
And no, I don't play a GF or have ever played one but I felt I needed to comment on this.
I never have trouble healing a GF through taking damage. One I commonly ran with never blocked unless he knew it would kill him. (He has since left Neverwinter though) I can debuff and heal equally well. Plus letting some damage through (which I don't agree with 100%) will put our defense stats to use more.
Mark is a debuff on the target and Reckless Attacker is a buff on yourself, why wouldn't they?
I don;t know it sounded to good to be true! I figured there was a catch like only if I was facing toward a north westernly direction while mecury was in retrograde or something...
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
It's nice to see that Conqueror is getting some attention, but what about Protector and Tactician line?
Is there really nothing in store for those?
Especially Protector, I think it's gonna lag behind a lot compared to the other two lines if the changes of the next patch go through like this.
In fact, I could say that the new Reckless Attacker may end up making Conqueror a better tanking line than Protector and Tactician.
It may only if you have a DC, but we will have far less guard and DR.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Can we all just let these changes go to the PTR before anyone gets them switched? Even if it is just for a short time, I want to remember what it feels like to be a legitimate class for PVP for a while. After the Stalwart set, prone durations, damage decreases, GWF's taking our moves, it's been a rough ride, and a long hard humbling experience.
So please, any negative comments on it, please just wait until it is released before you try to have your own class nerfed when the Dev's are actually taking the class in the non-negative/worse direction. PLEASE
Dev's, I take back everything I said, and can say I gladly endured a year of pain and suffering because it made me actually learn matchups rather than.... Roar.... Takedown.... IBS.....
Can we all just let these changes go to the PTR before anyone gets them switched? Even if it is just for a short time, I want to remember what it feels like to be a legitimate class for PVP for a while. After the Stalwart set, prone durations, damage decreases, GWF's taking our moves, it's been a rough ride, and a long hard humbling experience.
So please, any negative comments on it, please just wait until it is released before you try to have your own class nerfed when the Dev's are actually taking the class in the non-negative/worse direction. PLEASE
Dev's, I take back everything I said, and can say I gladly endured a year of pain and suffering because it made me actually learn matchups rather than.... Roar.... Takedown.... IBS.....
THANK YOU
^^ This man/woman is talking sense and spreading truth.
Conquerer can get to 6.5k Power (epic set, no BI gear) by my approximation. So compared to the 32% estimate you lose ~7% DPS but gain enhanced Mark feature and the ability to use your block meter. Nice tradeoff especially in PVP.
I never used much guard in PVE though.
6.5k Power is only about an 18% dmg boost (FROM CAPSTONE) btw. Most people inaccurately calculate this, your % dmg from power - only HALF of that came from Capstone.... So this would be a 7% DPS GAIN plus the 10% crit (around 7% DPS gain) for about 15% (close to it) more DPS...
Then adding 20% mark up from 8% = another 12% so youll be doing 27-30% MORE damage total - which is a pretty solid increase IMO.
6.5k Power is only about an 18% dmg boost (FROM CAPSTONE) btw. Most people inaccurately calculate this, your % dmg from power - only HALF of that came from Capstone.... So this would be a 7% DPS GAIN plus the 10% crit (around 7% DPS gain) for about 15% (close to it) more DPS...
Then adding 20% mark up from 8% = another 12% so youll be doing 27-30% MORE damage total - which is a pretty solid increase IMO.
Yeah really liking the sound of this change so far PLus now 2 annoyances are gone. 1. no more feeling the need to over stack power and 2. no more halved power once block is broken and that happens a lot when fighting a gwf lol.
If the shield blocked 100% dmg again i would be very happy with everything
Comments
^^^
This.Every Ayroux proposal hides in it a nerf.Stamina based block is clearly a nerf for pvp no matter the future adjustments and reworks.
His proposal to change the Conq capstone from 100% power to a 30% more crit for 8 secs is a nerf too.Gfs already have low crit.i know 13-15gs GFs who have less than 12% .And from their point of view they are correct.Even if they invest heavily for crit in the end they will mot pass easily the 22-24% in pvp.So they just stack arm pen and power.30% more crit to a 15% crit toon is just a lame 20% in the end.And only for 8 secs!!!!Impossible to land more than one in a TR/HR/CW.
The 99% of Gfs asks for more damage and block meter.Simple as that.Out Into the fray could also be buffed for pve(more temp hit points to team8s)
Ah i forgot!!He is against the Armor of Bahamut rework currently in ptr.He says that is equal to a 10% DR which is too much for a t1 feat....And suggest that it must go deeper into protector tree...i am seriously seriously starting to question his motives....
This is all we want!!!!!!!!!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
His motive is, to get every skill that i am using nerfed, because i do not agree with what he and his buddy think, even though both of them are wrong with almost everything they mention. They didn't quit their non fotm classes for no reason, while i kept successfully playing the so called weakest class there is. Let that sink in for a while and build your own opinion. They think by spamming the same things over and over again it gives them some sort of advantage over/against my opinions, somehow. It's a strange wide world we're living in, after all.
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To me this is almost pitiful behaviour, but there's also nothing i can do about it other than prooving them wrong when i have to, which is on almost every single one of their suggestions (nerf cries), sadly.
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So don't be shy and voice your opinion and what you are against, these guys are as harmless as an infant, don't worry. But as i mentioned, they are spamming the official feedback thread in order to achieve their goals. If we don't act, the valley will be overrun (aka. our class will be dead).
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
YOu guys clearly didnt see I changed the Capstone in the tree because you dont think its good enough, maybe it wasnt...
Reckless I changed to 30% more damage to marked targets.... that should be happy...
Also the REASON it is too good for a T1 feat is IN LIGHT of being able to perma hold block. You clearly didnt see the ALL RED CAPS in my post that said "these are not to be taken in isolation"
So what I proposed is keeping block at 80% and if you indefinitely hold block after stamina expires its only half as effective, Well if you get 10% more DR - even at half the blocks effectiveness it still makes you SUPER tanky.
Ill tell you my motivations:
I love my GF, I played GF up until mod 3 released as my "primary" character. Even mod 2 my GF was my primary and I farmed Profound gear on him as soon as it was released, so dont give me <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about not playing my toon. I have TWO 60 GFs. GF is my first class and my favorite class.
Where my opinion differs from others is I have been around and played GF in top tier PVP so I know what it was like when they worked and what killed them.
I continue to play in top tier pvp - although you CANT have a GF in top tier pvp. So on my GWF I see how the META is played and what a GF needs to survive.
I dont give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you pug stomp with Knights Cheese and post here saying you have all these +damage % numbers so your super good and want more damage.
I care about the current PVP meta, what is required of classes and roles in PVP and what a GF needs to survive. This is why, I continue to post over and over and over, I WANT to play GF again, I want them to succeed and be strong.
GFs have amazing potential and just need few minor tweaks. BTW, I dont play FOTM classes, I have been playing GF since beta, I also leveld a GWF when they were bad and played him when they were bad and continued to play BOTH fighter classes but only ever played GF in premades ALL the way through module 1 and STILL in module 2 as well. I only leveled a TR (and made a video) out of sheer boredom which I NEVER played "perma" - eventhough I had all the tenebrous enchants and bilethorn to do so, but thought it was stupid and a true "FOTM" build. I Dont have an HR either which is the TRUE FOTM class for mod 3.
So dont feed me bull **** for playing the SAME fighter classes I have been for well over a year now and saying I play FOTM classes. Also why would my Sig even say "GFs need changes" - which has been there for a LONG time if I didnt want buffs for the class.
If my changes went LIVE and you still cant play a GF - thats on you because they would be MORE Than a viable class in the current PVP meta... If anything my changes would be TOO good - as Calous already explained - which is why I edited to say perma block is only half as effective to compromise.
GWF have more than 30% for their destroyer and have the highest wpn damage yet you are suggesting that we only get 30% and now instead of a crit trigger it goes to mark targets - so lets see i would need to use enforce threat,Tab and TR to do the marking to get my 30% instead of having a 100% increased today as long as i don't use block in live.
Name me ONE other capstone that gives MORE than 30% damage... ONLY GWFs get more and look what it got them - more nerfs.
HRs capstone is 30% more damage to ONE target. GFs can have many marked at once. HRs also have to use an encounter to THEN get the buff, GFs can use tab anytime.
Name a TR capstone that gives a 30% dmg boost....
The current GF one doesnt give 30%... I have over 6k power and I only get about 17% damage boost from it, with FULL block.
Also while I AGREE we should have higher weapon damage, our abilities were scaled to our weapon damage - as I already explained to you.
Most of my tooltip damage on my GF is HIGHER than my GWF tooltip damage. Weapon damage is NOT the issue.
The issue is ALL the bonus damage other classes get. Honestly none of this was even an issue up until Module 2, so why was weapon damage not a problem then but it is now? Weapon damage ISNT what changed, feats/gear/boons are what changed.
30% is MORE than fair for a damage boost, in fact a 30% damage boost to marked targets is the second best capstone in the game. You sir, are being greedy.
WHAT?
Please screen shot these because, find it extremely hard to believe every GWF ability that is same as a GF was doubled tripled in damage in comparison.
Please show screen shot and don't un-equip all your GWF gear first either!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
My biggest concern here would be if the stacks 1) refresh themselves and 2) if they can proc off DoTs.
If they can and do, then I would imagine youll have almost 100%uptime in pvp. The only difference would be on FIRST encounter if the GF is not hit to build stacks.
What I will tell you though about the damage difference is this:
at 6700 power (so 3350 base) I get 40% damage boost meaning the capstone gave me a 20% damage boost.
at 6100 power (3050 base) I get 37% damage boost meaning i only got an 18.5% damage boost.
at 5637 power = 34% damage (17% capstone)
at 5127 power = 31% (15.5% capstone)
All of that is full guard BTW which I almost never had in PVP. Then when you factor in the damage as crit gain even without vorpal, that 10% crit equals roughly about another ~7% damage boost. So overall the capstone is giving a potential for 32%+ damage - which based on my ROUGH math, would be the same as about 12k-13k power on the current capstone (32% damage bonus @ about 200 power per 1% damage bonus = 6400 BONUS power needed = 6400 BASE power needed for 12.8k power boosted through capstone)
I dont get how you get your math.
Most GFs average 50% DR. Block blocks 80% damage.
So 20% damage gets through mutiplied by 50% = 10% damage gets through block.
For power, its 166 power per 1% damage boost (which you can even tell roughly from the first few numbers you posted. So, based on the 25% bonus and 7% (your approximation) from crit for a total of 32% damage bonus, the new capstone is worth ~5,312 power.
Well, it's irrelevant if I receive 50% or 40% of the damage (I tested a lot time ago and I thin I was getting the 39.something % of the raw damage, I think it's because of Armor Specialization or my memory is bad
Here is my BASE tooltip damage for both GWF and GF - ZERO buffs (with Conq Capstone however). Keep in mind, I have a VERY low STR roll on this toon (15). When you net out the Capstone, it removes about 17.5% damage buff so I would then only be slightly lower.
http://justpaste.it/g27v
Bull Charge is slightly higher with GF capstone. The issue (as ive said before) isnt as much the weapon damage but it IS the insane bonus damage GWFs get.
~40% from Destroyers Purpose and 40-50% from capstone.
For further clarification on this.
My GF Frontline Surge top end is 3228 (with double power)
My GWF frontline Surge top end is 3296
Mark is a debuff on the target and Reckless Attacker is a buff on yourself, why wouldn't they?
GF do have strong skills/damage, cleave for example is the hardest hitting aoe at-will i think. GWF have unstoppable which increases attack speed, better feats and itemisation and stat bonuses (ArP from CON) which put their damage way ahead.
With the new direction/changes GF damage isn't the solution, rather being able to survive the 20 cap taunt. (hopefully the new block will address this). If all goes according to plan we will be desirable,
and our single target will be on-par with the team with the new mark, (bull charge/knights challenge/anvil setup).
New tests must be run before asking for more now, the new changes for the other classes also impact the viability of GFs. (GWF one for example gave more viability for GFs, and the newer CW CC nerf/fix will need to be tested too)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Thanks for the clarification. I just eye balled it at 200 power.
So 5312 power *2 = 10.6k power would give roughly the same as the new capstone.
TLDR: its a buff.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
As a person who plays a DC often I don't agree with this. In particular the changes that will turn the GF's in to walking singularities of aggro actually worry me. My DC, like most good ones who play today, is primarily focused on debuffing mobs and damage mitigation. Healing is just bonus. My DC's healing capabilities are rather limited regardless and I couldn't imagine trying to keep some meat shield alive in a sea of mobs.
Please reconsider giving the GF's 100% block when their shield is up. Also, are they still vulnerable if hit from the sides and back? If so that needs to be addressed too. Thanks.
And no, I don't play a GF or have ever played one but I felt I needed to comment on this.
Sorry, I didn't read all the pages of the thread.
Anyway, glad to see it, even if maybe 15 would have been better in order to make combat HR viable in PVE.
I never have trouble healing a GF through taking damage. One I commonly ran with never blocked unless he knew it would kill him. (He has since left Neverwinter though) I can debuff and heal equally well. Plus letting some damage through (which I don't agree with 100%) will put our defense stats to use more.
ClariS lvl 60 DC
hehehehehe
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I don;t know it sounded to good to be true! I figured there was a catch like only if I was facing toward a north westernly direction while mecury was in retrograde or something...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
It may only if you have a DC, but we will have far less guard and DR.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
So please, any negative comments on it, please just wait until it is released before you try to have your own class nerfed when the Dev's are actually taking the class in the non-negative/worse direction. PLEASE
Dev's, I take back everything I said, and can say I gladly endured a year of pain and suffering because it made me actually learn matchups rather than.... Roar.... Takedown.... IBS.....
THANK YOU
^^ This man/woman is talking sense and spreading truth.
6.5k Power is only about an 18% dmg boost (FROM CAPSTONE) btw. Most people inaccurately calculate this, your % dmg from power - only HALF of that came from Capstone.... So this would be a 7% DPS GAIN plus the 10% crit (around 7% DPS gain) for about 15% (close to it) more DPS...
Then adding 20% mark up from 8% = another 12% so youll be doing 27-30% MORE damage total - which is a pretty solid increase IMO.
Yeah really liking the sound of this change so far
If the shield blocked 100% dmg again i would be very happy with everything
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]