stagger38Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited June 2014
Hmm, I was fighting ice giants with the new Mark and seeing the CA highlighting around their entire base. Was using my ioun stone companion. Certain I was alone. Assumed it was working for me and not just allies. If it isn't applying for the GF then yeah that's disappointing.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this was partly due to a fear of botting. Making the GF reasonably tanky could ultimately make them unkillable in certain situations. Running through dungeons with multiple GF might be slow, but time wouldn't be a factor.
Also, they have had poor experiences with tanky characters in champions online.
That said, I'm still not happy with the GF changes. Block and mark remain worse than other class mechanics. Defense diminishing returns are too severe, and it's too difficult to get other stats. Capstone feats are not very impressive. Party utility is compromised by other classes fulfilling our role, on top of their own.
Honestly id much rather have perma block be the "new" perma stealth, atleast with perma block you still deal 20% damage through shield AND you can see the GF AND the GF cant really attack you back while in block.
Id lean much more heavily towards a perma block meter than not. In all honestly I think perma block could easily work if it was given like a CD during downtimes.
So something LIKE a "block meter" that diminished, but could be held indefinitely even after the block meter was empty, but once it was LET GO THEN it would recharge back up.
The more I think about it, this would actually be my recommendation. Heck you wouldnt even really need to re-work the block meter from the current PTR much. Just give it a MUCH shorter CD timer (maybe like the amount of time it takes to recharge stealth meter outside combat).
Then just allow block to be held indefinitely even AFTER block meter expires, but once it is let go, you cant bring it back up until you have enough block again...
If block was "tab" and was toggled, so press tab once to activate block - infinite duration, slow movement, only at wills available, but then toggle it "off" and maybe it has a "recharge" or something before you can toggle it again. So basically you can hold it up forever (at the 80%) so its not like a total troll since youll still take damage.
Then IMO I think sprint like GWF have would be more fair... THAT would be pretty fun actually.
Perma block on tab @ 80%. Maybe a 3 second "recharge" on being able to block once your out of block...
Sprint on stamina for mobility.
None of this will ever happen though as it seems to me they arent really looking for feedback
bro please try to see that the 80% block thing is bad...all your posts you seem to agree with it or accept it when it is just such a bad idea and will make us much worse and even if we did have infinite block and put that shield up then gwf, TR and HR would still be hitting us 3-7ks and with multiple enemies around it it wouldn't really matter if we even had the shield or not.
I was wondering, since the Shield does only block the 80% of the incoming damage, did someone tested it against a TR?, because Whirlwind of Blades and Shocking Execution ignores Damage Resistance... it would be surely something bad if we receive the 100% of these attacks, at least on live we can block it with the shield.
bro please try to see that the 80% block thing is bad...all your posts you seem to agree with it or accept it when it is just such a bad idea and will make us much worse and even if we did have infinite block and put that shield up then gwf, TR and HR would still be hitting us 3-7ks and with multiple enemies around it it wouldn't really matter if we even had the shield or not.
I dont think its a bad thing IMO. I think block needs to be MUCH more available and for much longer periods of time IF its going to be 80% block.
But even at 80% block its truly more like 92% block. So to get hit by 7k means the hit would have to be for 87.5k.... I dont see that happening.
A 3k hit is 37.5k which I think can only be done by an HR with aimed Shot.
I havnt fully tested deflect + the new block, but I think it would only be fair to add deflect into the DR so even after block mitigates 80%, you can deflect the 20% damage as well remaining.
But after running this by a friend, I think the current block on the PTR can actually easily work in its current form - without even extending the duration, if you make ONE small change.
"Block can be held indefinitely - even after block meter is gone"
Block/Stamina only start to recharge once you let go of block.
What this means is:
1) You can use block tactically with a full block meter off and on.
2) You can hold block for LONG periods of time.
But you wouldnt be able to do both of those, since once you deplete block, you have to let it partly recharge for a few seconds before use again.
ALL of this ONLY works when you still take partial damage inside block. I think 80% is fine TBH if you get this ability to mitigate alot of incoming damage.
Just FYI for ppl who dont know, its a multiplier NOT included with hard caps. So 10k comes in, you mitigate 80% via block, so 2k left. THEN your DR kicks in for another 50% of that, meaning you took 10k down to 1k damage, then tenacity kicks in and shaves another 200 so you took a 10k hit down to 800 damage.
If you can deflect those blows then that would be fair I think, otherwise maybe block should be 85-90%.
But I would MUCH prefer a more "indefinite block" with partial damage coming through, than the current LIVE version OR the PTR version.
IF ALL they did was add the ability to hold block after block meter expires, and it charges once you let go - that is a block I think could be very effective. Even at 80% (barring again you can deflect blows while in block).
I was wondering, since the Shield does only block the 80% of the incoming damage, did someone tested it against a TR?, because Whirlwind of Blades and Shocking Execution ignores Damage Resistance... it would be surely something bad if we receive the 100% of these attacks, at least on live we can block it with the shield.
Yes - these are currently bugged and go through 100% of block AND DR.
Block should apply to these as well, so a WoB or SE would only deal 20% damage to a blocking GF. There are also things like prones/CC that go through block currently as well that also shouldnt.
I dont think its a bad thing IMO. I think block needs to be MUCH more available and for much longer periods of time IF its going to be 80% block.
But even at 80% block its truly more like 92% block. So to get hit by 7k means the hit would have to be for 87.5k.... I dont see that happening.
A 3k hit is 37.5k which I think can only be done by an HR with aimed Shot.
I havnt fully tested deflect + the new block, but I think it would only be fair to add deflect into the DR so even after block mitigates 80%, you can deflect the 20% damage as well remaining.
But after running this by a friend, I think the current block on the PTR can actually easily work in its current form - without even extending the duration, if you make ONE small change.
"Block can be held indefinitely - even after block meter is gone"
Block/Stamina only start to recharge once you let go of block.
What this means is:
1) You can use block tactically with a full block meter off and on.
2) You can hold block for LONG periods of time.
But you wouldnt be able to do both of those, since once you deplete block, you have to let it partly recharge for a few seconds before use again.
ALL of this ONLY works when you still take partial damage inside block. I think 80% is fine TBH if you get this ability to mitigate alot of incoming damage.
Just FYI for ppl who dont know, its a multiplier NOT included with hard caps. So 10k comes in, you mitigate 80% via block, so 2k left. THEN your DR kicks in for another 50% of that, meaning you took 10k down to 1k damage, then tenacity kicks in and shaves another 200 so you took a 10k hit down to 800 damage.
If you can deflect those blows then that would be fair I think, otherwise maybe block should be 85-90%.
But I would MUCH prefer a more "indefinite block" with partial damage coming through, than the current LIVE version OR the PTR version.
IF ALL they did was add the ability to hold block after block meter expires, and it charges once you let go - that is a block I think could be very effective. Even at 80% (barring again you can deflect blows while in block).
i guess they are just thinking of pve though.....im a pvp player and i have tested this new system and if they double duration or increase recharge speed or do what you said it wont matter. The current block is FINE it just needed a buff not a complete change and a nerf.
Once mod 4 comes out i will watch my K/D ratio go very bad because i know this wont work.
If block was "tab" and was toggled, so press tab once to activate block - infinite duration, slow movement, only at wills available, but then toggle it "off" and maybe it has a "recharge" or something before you can toggle it again. So basically you can hold it up forever (at the 80%) so its not like a total troll since youll still take damage.
Then IMO I think sprint like GWF have would be more fair... THAT would be pretty fun actually.
Perma block on tab @ 80%. Maybe a 3 second "recharge" on being able to block once your out of block...
Sprint on stamina for mobility.
None of this will ever happen though as it seems to me they arent really looking for feedback
well tbh since GFs take 80% of the dmg the guard meter or anything that doesnt let them guard infinitely should not exist, GF should be free to block whenever he want to w,o consequences, about sprint i dunno i do rather give them more dmg/cc immunity rather than sprint but then i came up with an idea let them shield up while sprinting!so it would make em CC/dmg immune to frontal attacks, and also would give them nice mobility!
but ofc not as fast sprint as GWF have.
I have re-formulated my suggestions now here, I actually really like these changes now - which are not much....
Stat changes: STR = damage (1%) / Stamina Gain (2%)
CON = HP (4%) /ARP (1%)
DEX = Deflect (1%) /Crit (.5%)
RECKLESS ATTACKER: *REWORKED* Increases damage by 30% for 8 seconds after dealing a critical strike.more inline with PnP feat, and combined with Dex changes makes this more plausible.
Stamina/Guard:
The ONLY change: *Block can be held indefinitely after block meter diminishes. It will only start re-charging once block is "let go".
*Confirming Block will allow for deflects and will not be ignored by things that ignore DR (like SE).
Now that block is only 80%, I think its only fair to have it have much more an "uptime" than previously. Think of how many times TRs use stealth, or CWs use Spell Mastery, or GWFs use Unstoppable - MANY times per fight. GFs are the only one who once block is used, have to wait almost 15 seconds for full block again, thats WAY too long IMO.
i like the more crit and armor pen but we would lose hp this way and action point gain..and since we are losing them 2 stats a lot we should get at least the same stats as gwf...
i guess they are just thinking of pve though.....im a pvp player and i have tested this new system and if they double duration or increase recharge speed or do what you said it wont matter. The current block is FINE it just needed a buff not a complete change and a nerf.
Once mod 4 comes out i will watch my K/D ratio go very bad because i know this wont work.
I dont think your seeing what I am saying. Even if your block/stamina meter goes to ZERO, if you are currently holding block, you can continue to do so until YOU decide to let it go.
Only once you let it go - does it "recharge".
So block meter still only lasts a short duration (like 5-6 seconds fully feated and everything) but you can hold block even after the meter expires. This makes stamina recharge much more important since it will bring your block back faster and it also STILL makes it important you time when to use block, because you cant keep popping in and out as long as you want.
Itll still be very re-active but now you have the ability to be pro-active with pre-emptive blocking because you can hold it forever.
Its not OP at all because you still take damage through block, meaning you cant just hide forever. But what this DOES give you is a true defensive tool as an ability to truly mitigate alot of damage, or even survive until you can get heals for longer periods of time.
I dont even mind if block starts dropping outside of combat with this one minor change, I dont even mind it having a LONG recharge timer too, since technically all you need is a sliver of block to hold block a long time, but what you do need more block meter for - is timing blocks on select hits to keep your offensive up.
So you can again, pop in and out - with a larger block meter so you can keep attacking, selecting specific times to mitigate big damage
OR
You can hold block indefinitely to play a defensive role - still taking damage, being immobile and not really able to attack.
When you throw 20 mobs at a party, you need more control. That's not the problem the CW created rather one created by game content designer. Tougher Fewer mobs would be more challenging and allow GF to hold agro. Also could have Friendly (mobs) inside Dungeons that we will need to keep alive would make guardian fighters more needed as well.
I dont think your seeing what I am saying. Even if your block/stamina meter goes to ZERO, if you are currently holding block, you can continue to do so until YOU decide to let it go.
Only once you let it go - does it "recharge".
So block meter still only lasts a short duration (like 5-6 seconds fully feated and everything) but you can hold block even after the meter expires. This makes stamina recharge much more important since it will bring your block back faster and it also STILL makes it important you time when to use block, because you cant keep popping in and out as long as you want.
Itll still be very re-active but now you have the ability to be pro-active with pre-emptive blocking because you can hold it forever.
Its not OP at all because you still take damage through block, meaning you cant just hide forever. But what this DOES give you is a true defensive tool as an ability to truly mitigate alot of damage, or even survive until you can get heals for longer periods of time.
I dont even mind if block starts dropping outside of combat with this one minor change, I dont even mind it having a LONG recharge timer too, since technically all you need is a sliver of block to hold block a long time, but what you do need more block meter for - is timing blocks on select hits to keep your offensive up.
So you can again, pop in and out - with a larger block meter so you can keep attacking, selecting specific times to mitigate big damage
OR
You can hold block indefinitely to play a defensive role - still taking damage, being immobile and not really able to attack.
I see exactly what you are saying and thats the problem...
GF are weak we cant fight a gwf head on we have to use so much skill when they can just charge in so when i fight a gwf player the only thing i can do to win is to knock them prone deal dmg and when they go unstoppable i run/dodge around them and pull up my shield when they use encounters now whats the point of holding my shield up for so long ? they can still dmg me and even if its not a lot it will half my regen and when i stop holding block then i will have to wait for it to recharge and have halved power -.- stamina guard is not going to work for pvp at all its so annoying waiting this long for a gf buff then be told your shield is going to be useless.
I like your other ideas about changing stats sure but i don't want to lose stats if the gain isn't going to be that good.
I see exactly what you are saying and thats the problem...
GF are weak we cant fight a gwf head on we have to use so much skill when they can just charge in so when i fight a gwf player the only thing i can do to win is to knock them prone deal dmg and when they go unstoppable i run/dodge around them and pull up my shield when they use encounters now whats the point of holding my shield up for so long ? they can still dmg me and even if its not a lot it will half my regen and when i stop holding block then i will have to wait for it to recharge and have halved power -.- stamina guard is not going to work for pvp at all its so annoying waiting this long for a gf buff then be told your shield is going to be useless.
I like your other ideas about changing stats sure but i don't want to lose stats if the gain isn't going to be that good.
Ugh, this is getting annoying because you dont understand and when I explain it, the mods come and remove the posts.
1) GWFs are getting a pretty bug nerf. They will either be MUCH less tanky, or deal MUCH less damage depending on spec. I hope this is fixed but anyway you slice it, GWFs wont even be in pvp anymore, they are just going to be bad. Ontop of that, the entire time a GWF is in unstoppable, you can be in block (and then some) taking a SMALL sliver of damage. Once they are out- they are subject to prones/CC and ALOT of damage. Not only that, ALL their CC is gone, so they cant prone you, but you can prone them.
2) I suggested a reowork to reckless attacker for this very reason, so you wont have "halved" power at all. If DEX now grants crit, youll easily have anywhere from 22-30% crit in pvp. Well you can always shield bash them beating on you, get a crit and have 30% more damage. Now whose gonna complain when they blow all their CDs on your block, and you come out with massive damage boost and prones. Youll win that fight. Trust me.
3) You are not going to lose any stats. I let this go earlier but you say it again so ill say it again. Go back and look. Con still = 4% HP. So not only will you have MORE HP than a GWF, your block mitigates ALOT more than their unstoppable AND you still have prones.
4) The ONLY thing you lose is AP gain - which is only fair, because with indefinite block, you can feat to gain AP during blocking, so this would be TOO OP if you didnt lose AP gain on Con. I think youll probably STILL end up having major AP gain and that may even need to be tuned back.
So I dont think you really see what is going on here in light of the big picture. Ill tell you what, if Crush makes these changes (above) ill take my GF and 1v1 any GWF on the PTR and you will see, itll be either a stalemate - vs a Sent or Ill win - versus a Destroyer.
Its not OP at all because you still take damage through block, meaning you cant just hide forever. But what this DOES give you is a true defensive tool as an ability to truly mitigate alot of damage, or even survive until you can get heals for longer periods of time.
This is what I see:
GF standing on point, GWF/CW/HR/whatever comes up. You block, you hold block until your HP gets to about 1/2. This is going to take a LONG time and you can be setup to lifesteal so that will make it take even longer.
You let block go when its safe, you pop healing artifact/pot, prone chain till stamina is full again.
Rinse, Repeat until DPS rotates to wipe whatever is messing with you.
There you have it, stupid OP never die perma point holder GF and thousands of QQ posts/threads.
GF standing on point, GWF/CW/HR/whatever comes up. You block, you hold block until your HP gets to about 1/2. This is going to take a LONG time and you can be setup to lifesteal so that will make it take even longer.
You let block go when its safe, you pop healing artifact/pot, prone chain till stamina is full again.
Rinse, Repeat until DPS rotates to wipe whatever is messing with you.
There you have it, stupid OP never die perma point holder GF and thousands of QQ posts/threads.
I cannot see it going any other way.
Potentially, it would be almost like a perma TR except you can actually see and damage a GF. I think just holding block indefinitely though is just fighting a losing game as neither your artifact or regen will outheal incoming damage.
Yes - let go when its safe, pop artifact and heal up some, but not a ton btw... Youll still be bleeding HP if thats the strategy and it its still super easy to send a 2nd person to burn through block, or burn you down period.
Id rather have the GF be the best node holder and a perma block - because you can easily 2v1 a GF than a Sentinel who face tanks and HEALS back, or a perma who cant even see.
I dont see a problem with GFs playing this way if they want. I think itll require alot of skill to play efficeintly and it wont be near as OP as Sentinels used to be (and maybe still will be) nor Perma TRs are NOR HRs are currently.
So lets say you take 80% damage. A GF this mod could get around idk, 46-50k hp. So you have a cw do an ice knife for 30k, you still take 6k damage, a GWF hitting you with unstoppable even doing 20% damage would still take you down eventually. You guys forget we are Guardians lol. Blocking and staying alive is not a problem!
Anytime the GF's have ever been screamed at for being OP it has been offensive power. Since we don't have a "prone chain" anymore since the durations are such HAMSTER, I think we need to figure out why we can't hold a node, and honestly this would make for a lot more interesting fights. Regardless of how good at blocking you are, a GWF can spring behind you and take down, it's just the way the game works. A tr can throw a smoke bomb and sometimes regardless of block, you can get dazed. So I think this would be pretty cool. A GF on a node wouldn't be a joke anymore. It'd be just like a TR when they are on there, it'd take more than 1 person to kill us "usually" as a GWF or HR could still kill us if they figured it out. God forbid a GWF needs to use his head a little.
But seriously, something like this could be just what we needed. It's a quick change, and we could test it!
I can already say that if we do get an infinite block and we start acting like perma trs we are going to see 30 min plus pvp matches this is already too much of a time sink and makes people less wanting to try pvp seriously because it heads down this road.
If the devs bother to change how domination is played to a much faster format I would be okay with this change to block.
The change would involve no contesting. Whoever has control of the cap is getting points no matter what. And in 1v1 situations you can cap so that it does not mean you need another player to take the cap but this third statement would be needed imo as this would take away the perma rogues ability to keep a cap 1v1 and same for us if we get this infinite block. These would probably rid the issue of long games as then it would not go over a certain time frame(as either team will gain points constantly) and people could easily get in and out of pvp without being sucked into a grind fest of contesting. This would attract more pvp players to the game imho and balance out these crazy defensive builds that people use.
So lets say you take 80% damage. A GF this mod could get around idk, 46-50k hp. So you have a cw do an ice knife for 30k, you still take 6k damage, a GWF hitting you with unstoppable even doing 20% damage would still take you down eventually. You guys forget we are Guardians lol. Blocking and staying alive is not a problem!
Anytime the GF's have ever been screamed at for being OP it has been offensive power. Since we don't have a "prone chain" anymore since the durations are such HAMSTER, I think we need to figure out why we can't hold a node, and honestly this would make for a lot more interesting fights. Regardless of how good at blocking you are, a GWF can spring behind you and take down, it's just the way the game works. A tr can throw a smoke bomb and sometimes regardless of block, you can get dazed. So I think this would be pretty cool. A GF on a node wouldn't be a joke anymore. It'd be just like a TR when they are on there, it'd take more than 1 person to kill us "usually" as a GWF or HR could still kill us if they figured it out. God forbid a GWF needs to use his head a little.
But seriously, something like this could be just what we needed. It's a quick change, and we could test it!
Im going to correct your math, because that 30k ice knife, turns into 6,000 which THEN turns into about only 2400 with DR and tenacity. Block->DR->Tenacity all multiplicative.
So each 10k of damage turns into about 800 damage net to your character.
I agree witheverthing else, there are plenty of ways to try and get a GF to lose their block, and in my recommendation, it would be probably 2-3 seconds + to be able to re-block. This all btw means the GF is dealing ZERO offensive damage.
The reason I have no issue with it, is:
Sent GWFs - uber 1v1 tanks
Perma TRs - uber 1v1 stealth
HRs - uber deflect/dodge/self heals
DCs - good DR/self heals
CWs - good control.
I can easily see ALL of these rolls as individual node holders, obviously some are better than others, but the WORST node holder will be a GF, with this change I think they could (and should) be up there with Permas and HRs.
To be honest, Id rather fight a GF who can block my attacks and have it hard to kill, than fight a perma who just runs around without attacking - who I cant even see...
I can already say that if we do get an infinite block and we start acting like perma trs we are going to see 30 min plus pvp matches this is already too much of a time sink and makes people less wanting to try pvp seriously because it heads down this road.
If the devs bother to change how domination is played to a much faster format I would be okay with this change to block.
The change would involve no contesting. Whoever has control of the cap is getting points no matter what. And in 1v1 situations you can cap so that it does not mean you need another player to take the cap but this third statement would be needed imo as this would take away the perma rogues ability to keep a cap 1v1 and same for us if we get this infinite block. These would probably rid the issue of long games as then it would not go over a certain time frame(as either team will gain points constantly) and people could easily get in and out of pvp without being sucked into a grind fest of contesting. This would attract more pvp players to the game imho and balance out these crazy defensive builds that people use.
LOL! 30 minute PVP matches? Try 4 hour games - that is ALREADY happening on live. This perma block wont change the duration of pvp matches at all.
I played a game about a week ago, took an hour and 15 minutes and the score was 350-200. The opposing team gave up not wanting to have over a 4 hour match. So this block wont change a thing...
Ive also already written ALOT about how contesting needs to be removed as a complete "negation" of points but merely diminished to 1 point every 3 seconds when contested, 1 point for each second while NOT contested.
This would also speed games up ALOT and involve much more team skill to win.
Ugh, this is getting annoying because you dont understand and when I explain it, the mods come and remove the posts.
1) GWFs are getting a pretty bug nerf. They will either be MUCH less tanky, or deal MUCH less damage depending on spec. I hope this is fixed but anyway you slice it, GWFs wont even be in pvp anymore, they are just going to be bad. Ontop of that, the entire time a GWF is in unstoppable, you can be in block (and then some) taking a SMALL sliver of damage. Once they are out- they are subject to prones/CC and ALOT of damage. Not only that, ALL their CC is gone, so they cant prone you, but you can prone them.
2) I suggested a reowork to reckless attacker for this very reason, so you wont have "halved" power at all. If DEX now grants crit, youll easily have anywhere from 22-30% crit in pvp. Well you can always shield bash them beating on you, get a crit and have 30% more damage. Now whose gonna complain when they blow all their CDs on your block, and you come out with massive damage boost and prones. Youll win that fight. Trust me.
3) You are not going to lose any stats. I let this go earlier but you say it again so ill say it again. Go back and look. Con still = 4% HP. So not only will you have MORE HP than a GWF, your block mitigates ALOT more than their unstoppable AND you still have prones.
4) The ONLY thing you lose is AP gain - which is only fair, because with indefinite block, you can feat to gain AP during blocking, so this would be TOO OP if you didnt lose AP gain on Con. I think youll probably STILL end up having major AP gain and that may even need to be tuned back.
So I dont think you really see what is going on here in light of the big picture. Ill tell you what, if Crush makes these changes (above) ill take my GF and 1v1 any GWF on the PTR and you will see, itll be either a stalemate - vs a Sent or Ill win - versus a Destroyer.
but i don't like the idea at all with the 80% bock so it would take a massive increase to something else to make up for that and the holding block forever thing i hate it because your saying if we release then it has to recharge i like the way the block is now and i don't like your idea there sorry.
but i don't like the idea at all with the 80% bock so it would take a massive increase to something else to make up for that and the holding block forever thing i hate it because your saying if we release then it has to recharge i like the way the block is now and i don't like your idea there sorry.
To each his own I guess. I honestly think this would make the GF what its intended to be - a defensive striker.
I also dont see a difference between LIVE/PTR/My suggestion about the block "recharging" because if you blow your meter it already has to "recharge".
The only change I added was allowing you to continue to have block up, even once the meter is depleted. Everything else stays the same.
I have no issue with 80% block because (as previously mentioned) it really means your blocking at around 92% of all inc damage, and even better if you can deflect that damage.
With increased HP pools from Con getting a boost, I know my GF will have about 8k more HP putting me well into the mid 45k range, I dont see how even taking 800 damage from a 10k daily is going to hurt, nor is blocking what would have been even a 20k IBS from a big bad GWF when its cut down to about 1600 damage.
1600/45k is only 3.5% of my HP lost, from a massive attack.
CWs have control now
Sent GWFs will be even MORE tanky with their new "sprint"
TRs have their Perma stealth
HRs have perma "dodge" and self heals.
I dont see why GFs cant have an amazing utility via perma block as well... Seeing as there ARE counters to it, that pull you out of block and especially since GFs cant attack while IN block, like permas/GWFs can using their defensive tools.
Ive also already written ALOT about how contesting needs to be removed as a complete "negation" of points but merely diminished to 1 point every 3 seconds when contested, 1 point for each second while NOT contested.
This would also speed games up ALOT and involve much more team skill to win.
Yes I have read a few of your threads on this and would welcome even those changes to pvp domination. I just feel if there was a way to have the min and max times for pvp people could then plan to play a serious match or two instead of praying for a non grind fest.
Back on topic...
With the current issue of block we need a more rewarding block if we only get 6 seconds it still is not that long. So if we could have some encounters adjusted so that we could gain back guard(other than ET since that is pve only) like tide of iron does it would help balance out the long recharge time.
Yes I have read a few of your threads on this and would welcome even those changes to pvp domination. I just feel if there was a way to have the min and max times for pvp people could then plan to play a serious match or two instead of praying for a non grind fest.
Back on topic...
With the current issue of block we need a more rewarding block if we only get 6 seconds it still is not that long. So if we could have some encounters adjusted so that we could gain back guard(other than ET since that is pve only) like tide of iron does it would help balance out the long recharge time.
What are your thoughts on my proposal?
6 seconds of block METER, however you can continue to hold block indefinitely even with zero block meter. Once you let blockdown to attack though, he meter only then starts to recharge, and obviously as its always been you would end up naturally having to wait a few seconds to gain enough stamina back to block again.
This would make it a proper defensive tool for GFs. Basically nothing changes from the PTR block except once stamina hits zero it doesnt "force you out" of block, it just means when you let it go, you cant bring up block right after again...
Meaning you have to choose when to strike appropriately and when to sit in "block".
6 seconds of block METER, however you can continue to hold block indefinitely even with zero block meter. Once you let blockdown to attack though, he meter only then starts to recharge, and obviously as its always been you would end up naturally having to wait a few seconds to gain enough stamina back to block again.
This would make it a proper defensive tool for GFs. Basically nothing changes from the PTR block except once stamina hits zero it doesnt "force you out" of block, it just means when you let it go, you cant bring up block right after again...
Meaning you have to choose when to strike appropriately and when to sit in "block".
In response to your pvp changes I would welcome having more game types as certain classes could carve a niche for themselves and feel impactful in a certain type of match example CTF a dc with high stamina, regen and defense maxed would be your top choice same goes for other game types with other classes.
Back to the point...
With how block has been proposed by devs the holding of block indefinately once it runs out seems to be something unintended from how the patch notes were phrased but if it is that way okay. But with the current conq capstone I would like to see an encounter or two other than ET give back guard as we have an at will already but only one encounter that is not suited for pvp.
I don't see how a player could win a node if a perma blocking GF is already in there. If you're blocking can you be CC'ed? (with the new stamine block, I mean) if you can't be CC'ed and only get around 8% of the total damage someone is dishing at you, how can anyone remove a blocking GF from a point? There are ways to deal with a perma stealth TR on a node, but I fail to see a way to deal with a blocking GF on a node.
I don't see how a player could win a node if a perma blocking GF is already in there. If you're blocking can you be CC'ed? (with the new stamine block, I mean) if you can't be CC'ed and only get around 8% of the total damage someone is dishing at you, how can anyone remove a blocking GF from a point? There are ways to deal with a perma stealth TR on a node, but I fail to see a way to deal with a blocking GF on a node.
If all the GF is doing is blocking, its going to be a losing battle. Sure you cant dish alot of damage but neither can the GF dish it back.
Your also looking at this from a 1v1 perspective - which I dont think would be a big deal STILL, but PVP is a team game. It MAY just take 2 people to clear the node quickly. Why shouldnt it? It already takes more than 1 person to kill a Sentinel GWF fast, takes more than 1 person to kill a perma TR. Takes more than 1 person to kill an HR.
Yes your only taking 8% damage, but you cant dish any damage out... I dont see the difference? Again why can other classes play this way but the tank class cant?
BTW - DCs used to be this way until they buffed GWFs Destroyer.
BTW also - if a TR chooses to NOT attack say a GWF, there are no ways to deal with the TR, he can keep running forever, never attacking perma contesting the node.
Again even 1v1 - which isnt the name of the game in pvp (team game) taking 8% damage over time will be more than enough to whittle down a GFs health, especially considering frontline is no longer a prone, so only BullRush is - but you have to leave block to use it.
Also many encounters bring you OUT of block -dazing strike for one, smoke bomb is another. Ontop of that, you can always try and get behind the GF.
It just seems silly that everone is balking about how the Tank class will be hard to kill on a node 1v1, but have no issues with HRs doing it, GWFs doing it, TRs doing it or even DCs that did it.... Just my opinion. Of them ALL the GF SHOULD be the king at node holding IMO.
Also it wouldnt be hard at all to clear the node if a TR threw down smoke bomb and an HR sat back and aim shot crit the GF for 15k+. Or even TR smoke bomb + CW control would be an easy way to kill one... But that requires teamwork... But shouldnt it?
People are so used to the current METAs the fact the GF SHOULD be a hard character to kill scares them? Why? Its a defensive character with very little offensive power. Heck even if you have a GF slot knights challenge, the second he blocks your dealing double damage to him in block, thats significant either way....
To each his own I guess. I honestly think this would make the GF what its intended to be - a defensive striker.
I also dont see a difference between LIVE/PTR/My suggestion about the block "recharging" because if you blow your meter it already has to "recharge".
The only change I added was allowing you to continue to have block up, even once the meter is depleted. Everything else stays the same.
I have no issue with 80% block because (as previously mentioned) it really means your blocking at around 92% of all inc damage, and even better if you can deflect that damage.
With increased HP pools from Con getting a boost, I know my GF will have about 8k more HP putting me well into the mid 45k range, I dont see how even taking 800 damage from a 10k daily is going to hurt, nor is blocking what would have been even a 20k IBS from a big bad GWF when its cut down to about 1600 damage.
1600/45k is only 3.5% of my HP lost, from a massive attack.
CWs have control now
Sent GWFs will be even MORE tanky with their new "sprint"
TRs have their Perma stealth
HRs have perma "dodge" and self heals.
I dont see why GFs cant have an amazing utility via perma block as well... Seeing as there ARE counters to it, that pull you out of block and especially since GFs cant attack while IN block, like permas/GWFs can using their defensive tools.
im glad your coming up with ideas though because gf can do with more changes but this new change to our shield i really dont like at all and as for the recharge thing i rarely have my shield fully broken as i rely on more dodge/run tactics and only use the shield when i need to block a powerful hit but with this stamina thing it will make that so much harder....
It's true, blocking doesn't work from the back. but remember that all shift skills are being changed and now will be able to interrupt their own animations and attacks to block, so even if you are blocking you can use an attack on the enemy and if you see you'll be hit you can cancel it quickly.
Remember also that for most permas to stay in stealth and contest nodes, they have to evade the enemy, but also be constantly using their skills, it does need some skill, standing there with shift pressed all the time doesn't look like it would require much skill.
Just in case, I'm not against it, but I'm curious to see how it would work.
It's true, blocking doesn't work from the back. but remember that all shift skills are being changed and now will be able to interrupt their own animations and attacks to block, so even if you are blocking you can use an attack on the enemy and if you see you'll be hit you can cancel it quickly.
Remember also that for most permas to stay in stealth and contest nodes, they have to evade the enemy, but also be constantly using their skills, it does need some skill, standing there with shift pressed all the time doesn't look like it would require much skill.
Just in case, I'm not against it, but I'm curious to see how it would work.
I want to see how it would work as well, and I really think it would work well.
You should also know, that IF a GF is "holding block" as soon as they let go, its not like they can bring it back up again as you suggest, the meter had to refill in order for them to press block again so thats the "catch" if you will.
As soon as the GF leaves block - from holding it - they will be vulnerable for several seconds unable to block again.
I never said the perma doesnt require skill, but its a really stupid mechanic in the current domination. In MANY matches ive played, the TR doesnt even attack any more.
I think fighting a GF mitigating MOST damage, with windows in which you can attack is much less frustrating than a perma who can STILL attack you who you cant even see.
Thats the second catch, GFs are SUPER immobile while blocking versus permas have good movement while stealth.
So a GF whose blocking, is MUCH easier to 2v1 down than a perma. So id still say the perma is going to require more skill, but is a better class to contest a node.
Plus its not like sentinel GWFs have to have "skill" to press Tab when they get hit... Thats just the game.
If they ever implement my "contesting" changes, then this wont even be an issue TBH.
So fundamental problem with GF versus GWF is in the overall mechanics i.e. the more you hit a GWF the stronger he gets (more damage and better defense). The more you hit a GF, the weaker he gets (less camage if Conq and certainly less defense). Even with the new changes, until they fix/mitigate that problem there will never be a balance or a reason to take a GF over a GWF.
Comments
Honestly id much rather have perma block be the "new" perma stealth, atleast with perma block you still deal 20% damage through shield AND you can see the GF AND the GF cant really attack you back while in block.
Id lean much more heavily towards a perma block meter than not. In all honestly I think perma block could easily work if it was given like a CD during downtimes.
So something LIKE a "block meter" that diminished, but could be held indefinitely even after the block meter was empty, but once it was LET GO THEN it would recharge back up.
The more I think about it, this would actually be my recommendation. Heck you wouldnt even really need to re-work the block meter from the current PTR much. Just give it a MUCH shorter CD timer (maybe like the amount of time it takes to recharge stealth meter outside combat).
Then just allow block to be held indefinitely even AFTER block meter expires, but once it is let go, you cant bring it back up until you have enough block again...
bro please try to see that the 80% block thing is bad...all your posts you seem to agree with it or accept it when it is just such a bad idea and will make us much worse and even if we did have infinite block and put that shield up then gwf, TR and HR would still be hitting us 3-7ks and with multiple enemies around it it wouldn't really matter if we even had the shield or not.
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I dont think its a bad thing IMO. I think block needs to be MUCH more available and for much longer periods of time IF its going to be 80% block.
But even at 80% block its truly more like 92% block. So to get hit by 7k means the hit would have to be for 87.5k.... I dont see that happening.
A 3k hit is 37.5k which I think can only be done by an HR with aimed Shot.
I havnt fully tested deflect + the new block, but I think it would only be fair to add deflect into the DR so even after block mitigates 80%, you can deflect the 20% damage as well remaining.
But after running this by a friend, I think the current block on the PTR can actually easily work in its current form - without even extending the duration, if you make ONE small change.
"Block can be held indefinitely - even after block meter is gone"
Block/Stamina only start to recharge once you let go of block.
What this means is:
1) You can use block tactically with a full block meter off and on.
2) You can hold block for LONG periods of time.
But you wouldnt be able to do both of those, since once you deplete block, you have to let it partly recharge for a few seconds before use again.
ALL of this ONLY works when you still take partial damage inside block. I think 80% is fine TBH if you get this ability to mitigate alot of incoming damage.
Just FYI for ppl who dont know, its a multiplier NOT included with hard caps. So 10k comes in, you mitigate 80% via block, so 2k left. THEN your DR kicks in for another 50% of that, meaning you took 10k down to 1k damage, then tenacity kicks in and shaves another 200 so you took a 10k hit down to 800 damage.
If you can deflect those blows then that would be fair I think, otherwise maybe block should be 85-90%.
But I would MUCH prefer a more "indefinite block" with partial damage coming through, than the current LIVE version OR the PTR version.
IF ALL they did was add the ability to hold block after block meter expires, and it charges once you let go - that is a block I think could be very effective. Even at 80% (barring again you can deflect blows while in block).
Yes - these are currently bugged and go through 100% of block AND DR.
Block should apply to these as well, so a WoB or SE would only deal 20% damage to a blocking GF. There are also things like prones/CC that go through block currently as well that also shouldnt.
i guess they are just thinking of pve though.....im a pvp player and i have tested this new system and if they double duration or increase recharge speed or do what you said it wont matter. The current block is FINE it just needed a buff not a complete change and a nerf.
Once mod 4 comes out i will watch my K/D ratio go very bad because i know this wont work.
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well tbh since GFs take 80% of the dmg the guard meter or anything that doesnt let them guard infinitely should not exist, GF should be free to block whenever he want to w,o consequences, about sprint i dunno i do rather give them more dmg/cc immunity rather than sprint but then i came up with an idea let them shield up while sprinting!so it would make em CC/dmg immune to frontal attacks, and also would give them nice mobility!
but ofc not as fast sprint as GWF have.
i like the more crit and armor pen but we would lose hp this way and action point gain..and since we are losing them 2 stats a lot we should get at least the same stats as gwf...
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I dont think your seeing what I am saying. Even if your block/stamina meter goes to ZERO, if you are currently holding block, you can continue to do so until YOU decide to let it go.
Only once you let it go - does it "recharge".
So block meter still only lasts a short duration (like 5-6 seconds fully feated and everything) but you can hold block even after the meter expires. This makes stamina recharge much more important since it will bring your block back faster and it also STILL makes it important you time when to use block, because you cant keep popping in and out as long as you want.
Itll still be very re-active but now you have the ability to be pro-active with pre-emptive blocking because you can hold it forever.
Its not OP at all because you still take damage through block, meaning you cant just hide forever. But what this DOES give you is a true defensive tool as an ability to truly mitigate alot of damage, or even survive until you can get heals for longer periods of time.
I dont even mind if block starts dropping outside of combat with this one minor change, I dont even mind it having a LONG recharge timer too, since technically all you need is a sliver of block to hold block a long time, but what you do need more block meter for - is timing blocks on select hits to keep your offensive up.
So you can again, pop in and out - with a larger block meter so you can keep attacking, selecting specific times to mitigate big damage
OR
You can hold block indefinitely to play a defensive role - still taking damage, being immobile and not really able to attack.
I see exactly what you are saying and thats the problem...
GF are weak we cant fight a gwf head on we have to use so much skill when they can just charge in so when i fight a gwf player the only thing i can do to win is to knock them prone deal dmg and when they go unstoppable i run/dodge around them and pull up my shield when they use encounters now whats the point of holding my shield up for so long ? they can still dmg me and even if its not a lot it will half my regen and when i stop holding block then i will have to wait for it to recharge and have halved power -.- stamina guard is not going to work for pvp at all its so annoying waiting this long for a gf buff then be told your shield is going to be useless.
I like your other ideas about changing stats sure but i don't want to lose stats if the gain isn't going to be that good.
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Ugh, this is getting annoying because you dont understand and when I explain it, the mods come and remove the posts.
1) GWFs are getting a pretty bug nerf. They will either be MUCH less tanky, or deal MUCH less damage depending on spec. I hope this is fixed but anyway you slice it, GWFs wont even be in pvp anymore, they are just going to be bad. Ontop of that, the entire time a GWF is in unstoppable, you can be in block (and then some) taking a SMALL sliver of damage. Once they are out- they are subject to prones/CC and ALOT of damage. Not only that, ALL their CC is gone, so they cant prone you, but you can prone them.
2) I suggested a reowork to reckless attacker for this very reason, so you wont have "halved" power at all. If DEX now grants crit, youll easily have anywhere from 22-30% crit in pvp. Well you can always shield bash them beating on you, get a crit and have 30% more damage. Now whose gonna complain when they blow all their CDs on your block, and you come out with massive damage boost and prones. Youll win that fight. Trust me.
3) You are not going to lose any stats. I let this go earlier but you say it again so ill say it again. Go back and look. Con still = 4% HP. So not only will you have MORE HP than a GWF, your block mitigates ALOT more than their unstoppable AND you still have prones.
4) The ONLY thing you lose is AP gain - which is only fair, because with indefinite block, you can feat to gain AP during blocking, so this would be TOO OP if you didnt lose AP gain on Con. I think youll probably STILL end up having major AP gain and that may even need to be tuned back.
So I dont think you really see what is going on here in light of the big picture. Ill tell you what, if Crush makes these changes (above) ill take my GF and 1v1 any GWF on the PTR and you will see, itll be either a stalemate - vs a Sent or Ill win - versus a Destroyer.
This is what I see:
GF standing on point, GWF/CW/HR/whatever comes up. You block, you hold block until your HP gets to about 1/2. This is going to take a LONG time and you can be setup to lifesteal so that will make it take even longer.
You let block go when its safe, you pop healing artifact/pot, prone chain till stamina is full again.
Rinse, Repeat until DPS rotates to wipe whatever is messing with you.
There you have it, stupid OP never die perma point holder GF and thousands of QQ posts/threads.
I cannot see it going any other way.
Potentially, it would be almost like a perma TR except you can actually see and damage a GF. I think just holding block indefinitely though is just fighting a losing game as neither your artifact or regen will outheal incoming damage.
Yes - let go when its safe, pop artifact and heal up some, but not a ton btw... Youll still be bleeding HP if thats the strategy and it its still super easy to send a 2nd person to burn through block, or burn you down period.
Id rather have the GF be the best node holder and a perma block - because you can easily 2v1 a GF than a Sentinel who face tanks and HEALS back, or a perma who cant even see.
I dont see a problem with GFs playing this way if they want. I think itll require alot of skill to play efficeintly and it wont be near as OP as Sentinels used to be (and maybe still will be) nor Perma TRs are NOR HRs are currently.
So I personally see no problem with it.
Anytime the GF's have ever been screamed at for being OP it has been offensive power. Since we don't have a "prone chain" anymore since the durations are such HAMSTER, I think we need to figure out why we can't hold a node, and honestly this would make for a lot more interesting fights. Regardless of how good at blocking you are, a GWF can spring behind you and take down, it's just the way the game works. A tr can throw a smoke bomb and sometimes regardless of block, you can get dazed. So I think this would be pretty cool. A GF on a node wouldn't be a joke anymore. It'd be just like a TR when they are on there, it'd take more than 1 person to kill us "usually" as a GWF or HR could still kill us if they figured it out. God forbid a GWF needs to use his head a little.
But seriously, something like this could be just what we needed. It's a quick change, and we could test it!
If the devs bother to change how domination is played to a much faster format I would be okay with this change to block.
The change would involve no contesting. Whoever has control of the cap is getting points no matter what. And in 1v1 situations you can cap so that it does not mean you need another player to take the cap but this third statement would be needed imo as this would take away the perma rogues ability to keep a cap 1v1 and same for us if we get this infinite block. These would probably rid the issue of long games as then it would not go over a certain time frame(as either team will gain points constantly) and people could easily get in and out of pvp without being sucked into a grind fest of contesting. This would attract more pvp players to the game imho and balance out these crazy defensive builds that people use.
Im going to correct your math, because that 30k ice knife, turns into 6,000 which THEN turns into about only 2400 with DR and tenacity. Block->DR->Tenacity all multiplicative.
So each 10k of damage turns into about 800 damage net to your character.
I agree witheverthing else, there are plenty of ways to try and get a GF to lose their block, and in my recommendation, it would be probably 2-3 seconds + to be able to re-block. This all btw means the GF is dealing ZERO offensive damage.
The reason I have no issue with it, is:
Sent GWFs - uber 1v1 tanks
Perma TRs - uber 1v1 stealth
HRs - uber deflect/dodge/self heals
DCs - good DR/self heals
CWs - good control.
I can easily see ALL of these rolls as individual node holders, obviously some are better than others, but the WORST node holder will be a GF, with this change I think they could (and should) be up there with Permas and HRs.
To be honest, Id rather fight a GF who can block my attacks and have it hard to kill, than fight a perma who just runs around without attacking - who I cant even see...
LOL! 30 minute PVP matches? Try 4 hour games - that is ALREADY happening on live. This perma block wont change the duration of pvp matches at all.
I played a game about a week ago, took an hour and 15 minutes and the score was 350-200. The opposing team gave up not wanting to have over a 4 hour match. So this block wont change a thing...
Ive also already written ALOT about how contesting needs to be removed as a complete "negation" of points but merely diminished to 1 point every 3 seconds when contested, 1 point for each second while NOT contested.
This would also speed games up ALOT and involve much more team skill to win.
but i don't like the idea at all with the 80% bock so it would take a massive increase to something else to make up for that and the holding block forever thing i hate it because your saying if we release then it has to recharge i like the way the block is now and i don't like your idea there sorry.
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To each his own I guess. I honestly think this would make the GF what its intended to be - a defensive striker.
I also dont see a difference between LIVE/PTR/My suggestion about the block "recharging" because if you blow your meter it already has to "recharge".
The only change I added was allowing you to continue to have block up, even once the meter is depleted. Everything else stays the same.
I have no issue with 80% block because (as previously mentioned) it really means your blocking at around 92% of all inc damage, and even better if you can deflect that damage.
With increased HP pools from Con getting a boost, I know my GF will have about 8k more HP putting me well into the mid 45k range, I dont see how even taking 800 damage from a 10k daily is going to hurt, nor is blocking what would have been even a 20k IBS from a big bad GWF when its cut down to about 1600 damage.
1600/45k is only 3.5% of my HP lost, from a massive attack.
CWs have control now
Sent GWFs will be even MORE tanky with their new "sprint"
TRs have their Perma stealth
HRs have perma "dodge" and self heals.
I dont see why GFs cant have an amazing utility via perma block as well... Seeing as there ARE counters to it, that pull you out of block and especially since GFs cant attack while IN block, like permas/GWFs can using their defensive tools.
Yes I have read a few of your threads on this and would welcome even those changes to pvp domination. I just feel if there was a way to have the min and max times for pvp people could then plan to play a serious match or two instead of praying for a non grind fest.
Back on topic...
With the current issue of block we need a more rewarding block if we only get 6 seconds it still is not that long. So if we could have some encounters adjusted so that we could gain back guard(other than ET since that is pve only) like tide of iron does it would help balance out the long recharge time.
What are your thoughts on my proposal?
6 seconds of block METER, however you can continue to hold block indefinitely even with zero block meter. Once you let blockdown to attack though, he meter only then starts to recharge, and obviously as its always been you would end up naturally having to wait a few seconds to gain enough stamina back to block again.
This would make it a proper defensive tool for GFs. Basically nothing changes from the PTR block except once stamina hits zero it doesnt "force you out" of block, it just means when you let it go, you cant bring up block right after again...
Meaning you have to choose when to strike appropriately and when to sit in "block".
In response to your pvp changes I would welcome having more game types as certain classes could carve a niche for themselves and feel impactful in a certain type of match example CTF a dc with high stamina, regen and defense maxed would be your top choice same goes for other game types with other classes.
Back to the point...
With how block has been proposed by devs the holding of block indefinately once it runs out seems to be something unintended from how the patch notes were phrased but if it is that way okay. But with the current conq capstone I would like to see an encounter or two other than ET give back guard as we have an at will already but only one encounter that is not suited for pvp.
If all the GF is doing is blocking, its going to be a losing battle. Sure you cant dish alot of damage but neither can the GF dish it back.
Your also looking at this from a 1v1 perspective - which I dont think would be a big deal STILL, but PVP is a team game. It MAY just take 2 people to clear the node quickly. Why shouldnt it? It already takes more than 1 person to kill a Sentinel GWF fast, takes more than 1 person to kill a perma TR. Takes more than 1 person to kill an HR.
Yes your only taking 8% damage, but you cant dish any damage out... I dont see the difference? Again why can other classes play this way but the tank class cant?
BTW - DCs used to be this way until they buffed GWFs Destroyer.
BTW also - if a TR chooses to NOT attack say a GWF, there are no ways to deal with the TR, he can keep running forever, never attacking perma contesting the node.
Again even 1v1 - which isnt the name of the game in pvp (team game) taking 8% damage over time will be more than enough to whittle down a GFs health, especially considering frontline is no longer a prone, so only BullRush is - but you have to leave block to use it.
Also many encounters bring you OUT of block -dazing strike for one, smoke bomb is another. Ontop of that, you can always try and get behind the GF.
It just seems silly that everone is balking about how the Tank class will be hard to kill on a node 1v1, but have no issues with HRs doing it, GWFs doing it, TRs doing it or even DCs that did it.... Just my opinion. Of them ALL the GF SHOULD be the king at node holding IMO.
Also it wouldnt be hard at all to clear the node if a TR threw down smoke bomb and an HR sat back and aim shot crit the GF for 15k+. Or even TR smoke bomb + CW control would be an easy way to kill one... But that requires teamwork... But shouldnt it?
People are so used to the current METAs the fact the GF SHOULD be a hard character to kill scares them? Why? Its a defensive character with very little offensive power. Heck even if you have a GF slot knights challenge, the second he blocks your dealing double damage to him in block, thats significant either way....
im glad your coming up with ideas though because gf can do with more changes but this new change to our shield i really dont like at all and as for the recharge thing i rarely have my shield fully broken as i rely on more dodge/run tactics and only use the shield when i need to block a powerful hit but with this stamina thing it will make that so much harder....
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Remember also that for most permas to stay in stealth and contest nodes, they have to evade the enemy, but also be constantly using their skills, it does need some skill, standing there with shift pressed all the time doesn't look like it would require much skill.
Just in case, I'm not against it, but I'm curious to see how it would work.
I want to see how it would work as well, and I really think it would work well.
You should also know, that IF a GF is "holding block" as soon as they let go, its not like they can bring it back up again as you suggest, the meter had to refill in order for them to press block again so thats the "catch" if you will.
As soon as the GF leaves block - from holding it - they will be vulnerable for several seconds unable to block again.
I never said the perma doesnt require skill, but its a really stupid mechanic in the current domination. In MANY matches ive played, the TR doesnt even attack any more.
I think fighting a GF mitigating MOST damage, with windows in which you can attack is much less frustrating than a perma who can STILL attack you who you cant even see.
Thats the second catch, GFs are SUPER immobile while blocking versus permas have good movement while stealth.
So a GF whose blocking, is MUCH easier to 2v1 down than a perma. So id still say the perma is going to require more skill, but is a better class to contest a node.
Plus its not like sentinel GWFs have to have "skill" to press Tab when they get hit... Thats just the game.
If they ever implement my "contesting" changes, then this wont even be an issue TBH.