A CW couldn't even stalemate with a GWF or a perma-TR and couldn't heal anyone. Fail balance is fail
But a DC cant KILL a GWF or perma-TR in 1v1... that's what hes saying. The CW at least has a chance, the DC doesn't... the ablility to stalemate, but never kill isn't balance either.
If a CW is then able to heal himself and others and have a tanky build, sure.
But that's not the case. So NERFZ and BUFFZ please cryptic
No, because if you flipped the classes, you would now be on a DC forum called "Devoted Cleric cant 1v1 in PvP gripe". Your supposed "balance" issues lie in the fact of 1v1 battles(in a team based game might I add.. sigh). If your class cant kill anything, just hope to sit around and NOT die, complaints would come(as is fair in DC case) that you cant kill anything.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
But a DC cant KILL a GWF or perma-TR in 1v1... that's what hes saying. The CW at least has a chance, the DC doesn't... the ablility to stalemate, but never kill isn't balance either.
Give CW the power of healing and give it a tanky build like what the DC has, then talk
No, because if you flipped the classes, you would now be on a DC forum called "Devoted Cleric cant 1v1 in PvP gripe". Your supposed "balance" issues lie in the fact of 1v1 battles(in a team based game might I add.. sigh). If your class cant kill anything, just hope to sit around and NOT die, complaints would come(as is fair in DC case) that you cant kill anything.
Only difference is, the DC is one of the tankiest classes in PVP and is able to provide more support and healing (CW's "control" is a joke)
Again, not an apt comparison. Make the CW as tanky as a DC, give it healing skills, then compare them. Otherwise, CW is a just a poor man's DPS (barely) in PVP with laughable "control" powers
Only difference is, the DC is one of the tankiest classes in PVP and is able to provide more support and healing (CW's "control" is a joke)
Again, not an apt comparison. Make the CW as tanky as a DC, give it healing skills, then compare them. Otherwise, CW is a just a poor man's DPS (barely) in PVP with laughable "control" powers
If CW could now ALSO heal and tank, theyd be superior to DCs(both PvP and PvE), so your "tankiness" factor isn't a comparison, but makes DCs useless. Otherwise, a DC is just a poor man's "helper" class, with laughable damage powers.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Well, I'm still looking for a CW build that let's you AT LEAST stalemate a GWF or a perma-TR......DCs have those already.
When I've found it, I'll get back to you mmkay :cool:
Nice. So u wanna a CW to be able to stalemate ANY other class 1x1, being able to kill ANY class also (some - always, some - when they'v done a mistake), and being able to CC when not focused...
While a (very good) DC can stalemate just SOME classes, being able to kill NOONE, unless they r just horrible, having absolutely no means against CC, and having 'powerful' heals, which do absolutely nothing against CC
Am I alone to see something is a bit imbalanced here?
Nice. So u wanna a CW to be able to stalemate ANY other class 1x1, being able to kill ANY class also (some - always, some - when they'v done a mistake), and being able to CC when not focused...
While a (very good) DC can stalemate just SOME classes, being able to kill NOONE, unless they r just horrible, having absolutely no means against CC, and having 'powerful' heals, which do absolutely nothing against CC
Am I alone to see something is a bit imbalanced here?
Don't forget they don't die quickly and can heal other classes and isn't fragile like the CW.
Nice. So u wanna a CW to be able to stalemate ANY other class 1x1, being able to kill ANY class also (some - always, some - when they'v done a mistake), and being able to CC when not focused...
While a (very good) DC can stalemate just SOME classes, being able to kill NOONE, unless they r just horrible, having absolutely no means against CC, and having 'powerful' heals, which do absolutely nothing against CC
Am I alone to see something is a bit imbalanced here?
Nope, I hear ya. read my last post.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Give DCs the power of control, and give it burst damage like what CW has, then talk.
You mean the 2 strengths of CW that was horribly nerfed? Go fight Enemy Team's premade and see how much of a joke that is. Until then, you won't understand what I'm saying fighting 9k GS pugs.
Well, I'm still looking for a CW build that let's you AT LEAST stalemate a GWF or a perma-TR......DCs have those already.
When I've found it, I'll get back to you mmkay :cool:
In the meantime, help yourself to those links, watch some premade PVP against top guilds. It helps you get a better perspective on high end pvp premades. I've watched my fair share.
I'm still waiting for the link to the build (and videos) helping a BiS DC to 1x1 a BiS CW 4 of 10 times. Thx
You mean the 2 strengths of CW that was horribly nerfed? Go fight Enemy Team's premade and see how much of a joke that is. Until then, you won't understand what I'm saying fighting 9k GS pugs.
Oh, and the DCs strengths weren't nerfed either?! Healing depression makes a DC all but worthless. That's why many DCs are wanting "righteousness" taken out, the heals are worthless. Go fight premade enemies with a DC, and see how much of a joke DCs are considered now. Until then, you wont understand what im saying fighting while playing ONLY AS A CW.
I play EVERY class in pvp, so I have insight how every class is versus another class , and EVERY class deserves the right to 1v1 anything. I want you to bring proof of DCs 1v1 killing enemies too. 16k gs DCs cant beat 12k gs CWs, wheres the balance in that?!
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Like I said, bring your CW and fight Enemy Team's premade and you will see how much of a joke control and burst damage is
And you play as ONLY a CW in pvp, big deal.
Why don't you roll a DC, then tell me of those amazing matches where you go on killing sprees killing enemies with half your gs... oh wait
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I don't play DC at high level PVP which is why I don't talk about them being overpowered/underpowered.
You don't play CW at high level PVP which is why you shouldn't talk about them being overpowered/underpowered either.
Got it?
I play EVERY class in pvp, which is why I can talk about how every class hopes to work against other classes, and their individual balance issues.
You ONLY play a CW at high level PvP, and don't know how they operate at any/all levels of PvP, so shouldn't talk about them being overpowered/underpowered either.
Got it?
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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talenlostbladeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2014
I don't find CW to be underpowered in PVP. In fact, I find some of their control powers to be too much. I spend pretty much the entire match being held in place by either a CW or HR and that's with a relatively decent Tenacity score that's supposed to help protect me from that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You should try being a GF some time. Sure, I can stay alive sitting on points which is good for my team but it's not that good for me because (1) I get almost no kills and (2) I don't personally get any credit [or points] for keeping the points captured. My team wins more often than not because the other team is triple teaming me to get me off their point, but that usually results is me getting very few kills which is going to matter a whole lot more once they start keeping track of kills and deaths.
I play EVERY class in pvp, which is why I can talk about how every class hopes to work against other classes, and their individual balance issues.
You don't play CW at a high level. You play in PUG matches. Huge variances in skill and gear affect your perception.
What does it say when Spastic Dodge (adamy2004) and Persephone , 2 of the top regular PVPers CWs on this server disagree with what someone like you says?
Please go watch twitch streams, go join a PVP guild, go play high level premades then come back. Otherwise we are talking about 2 different metas. You are talking about low level pugging, I am talking about high level premade vs premades. There is bound to be a difference in opinion because the two metas work differently.
The very best CWs out there can beat those people you mentioned rashy... maybe 1-2/10 times. However.
You gotta understand each class has strengths and weaknesses. Let's start with the obvious ones.
- range. You want as much range as possible as a CW
- kiting. You need room to kite.
- environment. You need to make use of environment. Use the pillars and jump LoS around them. Use towers.
In a 1 vs 1 situation, a CW can't make use of their abilities, because one of the rules is you stay on point. This puts the CW at huge disadvantage, because he practically has to facetank the GWF, or tank the PotB from a TR and so on.
As for the DC class. Yes they will lose against CW. They are however far from useless. Also most DCs specced for healing/tankyness, not damage. You want to kill CWs? Spec for DPS. Your chances will grow a lot. I only remember one DPS cleric, and he used to hit me for around 20K daunting lights before Tenacity. The best DCs out there (that are not fully specced for heals and/or carry more armor sets so they can DPS too) can do very well against a CW, to the point of almost winning. Yes, you heard it right. One of the best PvP DCs out there has a very specific playstyle, and he is able to survive for a LONG while against CWs, while also bringing them to the brink of death, and if the CW is not that good, they will easily die.
Also everybody cool down a bit you gonna get the topic locked.
You don't play CW at a high level. You play in PUG matches. Huge variances in skill and gear affect your perception.
What does it say when Spastic Dodge (adamy2004) and Persephone , 2 of the top regular PVPers CWs on this server disagree with what someone like you says?
Please go watch twitch streams, go join a PVP guild, go play high level premades then come back. Otherwise we are talking about 2 different metas. You are talking about low level pugging, I am talking about high level premade vs premades. There is bound to be a difference in opinion because the two metas work differently.
Any CW worth his salt knows theres a difference in premade and pug, but players like you discard pug entirely(once the misunderstanding, brought on by you and others' raging, velynna knows that pug pvp is also a part of this game(in fact its the majority of pvp in this game)).
By the way, pers3phone has been debunked, proven wrong, and his logic proven false by myself AND others in previous threads, and you sound just like him. You talk only of CWs, and want them and them alone buffed, not understanding that balance in pvp means EVERY class needs to be balanced. GWFs weren't always at the top, but then people qq'ed too much, and now look at them. Narrow minded people such as yourself want 1 and only 1 class at the top of pvp AND pve. You don't register that other classes(DCs/GFs) ALSO need love, just that IN TEAM BASED PLAY, you want your class to stand out. You give CW other classes' powers, you don't understand how that imbalances the current meta the other way(towards CWs). Players like velynna have superior expertise/experience, because she plays pug and premade. You DO NOT play pug and premade, and only 1 class by the way. Roll a GF, DC, then tell me how great they do in high end AND/OR premade pvp/pve. People like pers3phone and you are bias, and narrow minded. I may not play high end pvp(except on the pugstomped side) like velynna, but at least ive played everything. And CW is NOT my weakest pvp class.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
The best DCs out there (that are not fully specced for heals and/or carry more armor sets so they can DPS too) can do very well against a CW, to the point of almost winning. Yes, you heard it right. One of the best PvP DCs out there has a very specific playstyle, and he is able to survive for a LONG while against CWs, while also bringing them to the brink of death, and if the CW is not that good, they will easily die.
Thats why we have to buff a CW 1st - so that 'One of the best PvP DCs out there' that is 'able to survive for a LONG while against CWs, while also bringing them to the brink of death' - knows its place: a decent CW just MUST be able to kill him in 15 sec at most while losing no more than 10% of hp.
Guys, r u kidding or what?
Clerics have a huge disadvantage already. Fix THAT, and after that go and offer buffs to wizards.
That ridiculous arguments about 'but cleric has heals' and 'some cleric could sometimes stalemate some GWF' and 'i saw some BiS cleric that managed to survive more than 10 sec against some not very bad CW'- well....
Thats why we have to buff a CW 1st - so that 'One of the best PvP DCs out there' that is 'able to survive for a LONG while against CWs, while also bringing them to the brink of death' - knows its place: a decent CW just MUST be able to kill him in 15 sec at most while losing no more than 10% of hp.
Guys, r u kidding or what?
Clerics have a huge disadvantage already. Fix THAT, and after that go and offer buffs to wizards.
That ridiculous arguments about 'but cleric has heals' and 'some cleric could sometimes stalemate some GWF' and 'i saw some BiS cleric that managed to survive more than 10 sec against some not very bad CW'- well....
This is what im saying in the CW vs DC portion of the thread... Just because a BiS has a chance to win against a bad CW, is that not also class imbalance? On my CW, ive faced DCs, and the difference in THEIR gs just determines how long they last. Ive NEVER lost to a DC in 1v1 situations...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Any CW worth his salt knows theres a difference in premade and pug, but players like you discard pug entirely(once the misunderstanding, brought on by you and others' raging, velynna knows that pug pvp is also a part of this game(in fact its the majority of pvp in this game)).
Apparently, you aren't one of them.
Anyways, this is a waste of my time spending that much responding to 1 person. You keep talking about PUG PVP, I'll keep talking about premade PVP CW.
I've said all my points, I've debunked everything said to me. Right now, the questions are being phrased in a different way and I've had to repeat the same points over and over again.
I'll just wait for you to get better and start facing PVP guilds wherein the difference between skill and gear aren't much in-between teams. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two about the differences between PUG PVP and premade PVP.
As of now, I would say I'll have to agree to disagree.
Anyways, this is a waste of my time spending that much responding to 1 person. You keep talking about PUG PVP, I'll keep talking about premade PVP CW.
I've said all my points, I've debunked everything said to me. Right now, the questions are being phrased in a different way and I've had to repeat the same points over and over again.
I'll just wait for you to get better and start facing PVP guilds wherein the difference between skill and gear aren't much in-between teams. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two about the differences between PUG PVP and premade PVP.
As of now, I would say I'll have to agree to disagree.
Apparently YOU aren't one of them. Im not talking about pug pvp, im talking about pvp as a WHOLE. velynna understood this, apparently you DO NOT. Ive continuously debunked everything said to me, and shared suggestions/constructive thoughts. If anything, IVE had to post, repost, and repeat the same points over and over again.
Ill just wait for you to learn to not be so narrow minded, and learn that balance means EVERYTHING must be balanced, not just making one class more OP than others(once again, seeing as you don't read, many people remember when CWs were higher tier pvp, and GWFs were garbage... apparently you do not understand how much pvp has changed). Nice when you SAY you've listened, yet ive had to repeat the same things experienced people should know to you time and time again.
Maybe then youll learn that having 1 class in the upper echelon of a gametype, doesn't mean youre an expert on the subject AS A WHOLE. Its people who look at everything, and get the bigger picture who understand how the gears are rolling. Ill take a guy who looks at all the classes, over a person throwing a fit because the 1 class they play is considered garbage to them, anyday.
With that, have a nice day .
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
You don't play CW at a high level. You play in PUG matches. Huge variances in skill and gear affect your perception.
What does it say when Spastic Dodge (adamy2004) and Persephone , 2 of the top regular PVPers CWs on this server disagree with what someone like you says?
Please go watch twitch streams, go join a PVP guild, go play high level premades then come back. Otherwise we are talking about 2 different metas. You are talking about low level pugging, I am talking about high level premade vs premades. There is bound to be a difference in opinion because the two metas work differently.
please do not bring me back into this thread, and i DO agree with some things willie has to say, also the very best CWs are Alt and Sobek, im on the tier below with everyone else
People like velynna are vastly more experienced, but shes not on here qq'ing "buff the cw and nothing else, were the worst in PvP". At least 2 DCs(myself and another) have posted that DCs are weaker in PvP. Theres also been a GF(I could go on that too, but I let that go, because anybody with any PvP experience knows that DC and GF are considered worst 2 PvP classes).
What you've done is come onto this thread, and continuously qq about CWs weaknesses in current meta(which, once again, nobody here's saying they don't(once again, to your lack of reading)), but not being sympathetic(in fact downright insulting) to classes who need more help than even CWs.
Balance means EVERYTHING should be looked at evenly. Im pretty sure giving CWs healing and tankiness on the level of DCs and GFs is about the stupidest thing ever stated. You support CW's strengths, not copy/paste other classes' strengths onto yours. Any experienced person would've seen that that's not a way to promote balance. When the HR class came out, for example, they were never meant to be an OP class, but a class with diversity, if played correctly(range dps, melee dps).
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
please do not bring me back into this thread, and i DO agree with some things willie has to say, also the very best CWs are Alt and Sobek, im on the tier below with everyone else
my discussion with you and velynna was merely a misunderstanding, and for that im sorry. But this guy's all about narrow minded buffing of his class for his benefit, instead of balancing pvp as a whole.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
please do not bring me back into this thread, and i DO agree with some things willie has to say, also the very best CWs are Alt and Sobek, im on the tier below with everyone else
Sobek plays a GWF now fyi.
Jerkface tried out mage and he is doing well.....with a stacked premade backing him up of course.
I PuG PvP a CW, and I find the experience varies hugely match to match. Sometimes I bestride the battleground like a veritable God of Death, other times I die faster than the average mayfly. Keeps it interesting I guess. But the serious point here is that Cryptic will be using in-game metrics to see what and how to balance classes. With so much variation in PuGs (the vast majority of PvP) they simply may not consider the issues thrown up in 'Elite' PvP significant.
Honestly? I'd be happy if they just fixed it so that Repel worked 100% of the time. They can take away the damage component if they like. I just want one single 100% reliable method of getting a Melee out of my face when my dodges run out.
CW definitely lost some power with the new tenacity mechanic, but I still maintain that no one has more right to complain about pvp being hideously imbalanced as DC do. That is a straight up painful experience.
I streamed pages by pages, looking for useful information but in the end i only see flame war(s) happening, dragging in high end BIS pvp players to prove your(s) statements. I admit cw do got their weakness, but instead of asking immediate buffs to cw, why not take a look abt other classes? I play as a DC which is the only class when BIS as sent cannot kill anyone by 1v1, even the opponent is half of our gs. In addition, we got tons of healing nerfs on us since beta, where new modules add healing nerfs to us (Righteousness (Beta), Shadowtouched (M2), Healing Depression (pre-M3)). We as a DC have our roles and strengths shifted from an extreme to another extremes in every modules. We changed from pure healers to halfling node capping sent (Beta> M1), then from sent clerics we shift to buff/debuffer since the introduction of healing depression, as our healing powers are not so powerful anymore to keep ourselves alive (M1 > M2). Now we are going to M3, and the healer class still cannot effective heal a teammate in pvp, is this a major problem? Yes it indeed is. Cw can penetrate tenacity control resist and can still do moderate to great damage, but cleric still cant heal effectively due to healing depression!!!
Well, do you still qq-ing about cw weakness in pvp after seeing the facts i have stated?? Chill down and give constructive feedbacks. I hope this thread will not be closed because of flame wars, cuz there are many useful feedbacks and informations here for me to inspect.
Now we are going to M3, and the healer class still cannot effective heal a teammate in pvp, is this a major problem? Yes it indeed is. Cw can penetrate tenacity control resist and can still do moderate to great damage, but cleric still cant heal effectively in M3!!! Well, do you still qq-ing about cw weakness in pvp after seeing the facts i have stated?? Chill down and give constructive feedbacks. I hope this thread will not be closed because of flame wars.
What is "effective"? A good DC makes my GWF immortal. My TR immortal. My CW immortal vs 1 person and almost immortal vs 2 persons. All I have to do is stay near and use the shields.
How much more healing should DC have? Just asking.
Also if DCs would make a topic about DC weaknesses in PvP, then a few CWs would come and say:
"No, CWs have weaknesses too, gtfo with the DC thing and let's derail the topic to suit CW interests"
Comments
But a DC cant KILL a GWF or perma-TR in 1v1... that's what hes saying. The CW at least has a chance, the DC doesn't... the ablility to stalemate, but never kill isn't balance either.
No, because if you flipped the classes, you would now be on a DC forum called "Devoted Cleric cant 1v1 in PvP gripe". Your supposed "balance" issues lie in the fact of 1v1 battles(in a team based game might I add.. sigh). If your class cant kill anything, just hope to sit around and NOT die, complaints would come(as is fair in DC case) that you cant kill anything.
Only difference is, the DC is one of the tankiest classes in PVP and is able to provide more support and healing (CW's "control" is a joke)
Again, not an apt comparison. Make the CW as tanky as a DC, give it healing skills, then compare them. Otherwise, CW is a just a poor man's DPS (barely) in PVP with laughable "control" powers
Give DCs the power of control, and give it burst damage like what CW has, then talk.
If CW could now ALSO heal and tank, theyd be superior to DCs(both PvP and PvE), so your "tankiness" factor isn't a comparison, but makes DCs useless. Otherwise, a DC is just a poor man's "helper" class, with laughable damage powers.
Nice. So u wanna a CW to be able to stalemate ANY other class 1x1, being able to kill ANY class also (some - always, some - when they'v done a mistake), and being able to CC when not focused...
While a (very good) DC can stalemate just SOME classes, being able to kill NOONE, unless they r just horrible, having absolutely no means against CC, and having 'powerful' heals, which do absolutely nothing against CC
Am I alone to see something is a bit imbalanced here?
Don't forget they don't die quickly and can heal other classes and isn't fragile like the CW.
Nope, I hear ya. read my last post.
You mean the 2 strengths of CW that was horribly nerfed? Go fight Enemy Team's premade and see how much of a joke that is. Until then, you won't understand what I'm saying fighting 9k GS pugs.
I'm still waiting for the link to the build (and videos) helping a BiS DC to 1x1 a BiS CW 4 of 10 times. Thx
Looks like we'll both be waiting. I do have video of a DC stalemating one of the best GWF's on the server.
CWs stalemating though....still dud.
Oh, and the DCs strengths weren't nerfed either?! Healing depression makes a DC all but worthless. That's why many DCs are wanting "righteousness" taken out, the heals are worthless. Go fight premade enemies with a DC, and see how much of a joke DCs are considered now. Until then, you wont understand what im saying fighting while playing ONLY AS A CW.
I play EVERY class in pvp, so I have insight how every class is versus another class
So you play every class in PUG matches big deal.
Like I said, bring your CW and fight Enemy Team's premade and you will see how much of a joke control and burst damage is
And you play as ONLY a CW in pvp, big deal.
Why don't you roll a DC, then tell me of those amazing matches where you go on killing sprees killing enemies with half your gs... oh wait
I don't play DC at high level PVP which is why I don't talk about them being overpowered/underpowered.
You don't play CW at high level PVP which is why you shouldn't talk about them being overpowered/underpowered either.
Got it?
I play EVERY class in pvp, which is why I can talk about how every class hopes to work against other classes, and their individual balance issues.
You ONLY play a CW at high level PvP, and don't know how they operate at any/all levels of PvP, so shouldn't talk about them being overpowered/underpowered either.
Got it?
You don't play CW at a high level. You play in PUG matches. Huge variances in skill and gear affect your perception.
What does it say when Spastic Dodge (adamy2004) and Persephone , 2 of the top regular PVPers CWs on this server disagree with what someone like you says?
Please go watch twitch streams, go join a PVP guild, go play high level premades then come back. Otherwise we are talking about 2 different metas. You are talking about low level pugging, I am talking about high level premade vs premades. There is bound to be a difference in opinion because the two metas work differently.
You gotta understand each class has strengths and weaknesses. Let's start with the obvious ones.
- range. You want as much range as possible as a CW
- kiting. You need room to kite.
- environment. You need to make use of environment. Use the pillars and jump LoS around them. Use towers.
In a 1 vs 1 situation, a CW can't make use of their abilities, because one of the rules is you stay on point. This puts the CW at huge disadvantage, because he practically has to facetank the GWF, or tank the PotB from a TR and so on.
As for the DC class. Yes they will lose against CW. They are however far from useless. Also most DCs specced for healing/tankyness, not damage. You want to kill CWs? Spec for DPS. Your chances will grow a lot. I only remember one DPS cleric, and he used to hit me for around 20K daunting lights before Tenacity. The best DCs out there (that are not fully specced for heals and/or carry more armor sets so they can DPS too) can do very well against a CW, to the point of almost winning. Yes, you heard it right. One of the best PvP DCs out there has a very specific playstyle, and he is able to survive for a LONG while against CWs, while also bringing them to the brink of death, and if the CW is not that good, they will easily die.
Also everybody cool down a bit you gonna get the topic locked.
Any CW worth his salt knows theres a difference in premade and pug, but players like you discard pug entirely(once the misunderstanding, brought on by you and others' raging, velynna knows that pug pvp is also a part of this game(in fact its the majority of pvp in this game)).
By the way, pers3phone has been debunked, proven wrong, and his logic proven false by myself AND others in previous threads, and you sound just like him. You talk only of CWs, and want them and them alone buffed, not understanding that balance in pvp means EVERY class needs to be balanced. GWFs weren't always at the top, but then people qq'ed too much, and now look at them. Narrow minded people such as yourself want 1 and only 1 class at the top of pvp AND pve. You don't register that other classes(DCs/GFs) ALSO need love, just that IN TEAM BASED PLAY, you want your class to stand out. You give CW other classes' powers, you don't understand how that imbalances the current meta the other way(towards CWs). Players like velynna have superior expertise/experience, because she plays pug and premade. You DO NOT play pug and premade, and only 1 class by the way. Roll a GF, DC, then tell me how great they do in high end AND/OR premade pvp/pve. People like pers3phone and you are bias, and narrow minded. I may not play high end pvp(except on the pugstomped side) like velynna, but at least ive played everything. And CW is NOT my weakest pvp class.
Thats why we have to buff a CW 1st - so that 'One of the best PvP DCs out there' that is 'able to survive for a LONG while against CWs, while also bringing them to the brink of death' - knows its place: a decent CW just MUST be able to kill him in 15 sec at most while losing no more than 10% of hp.
Guys, r u kidding or what?
Clerics have a huge disadvantage already. Fix THAT, and after that go and offer buffs to wizards.
That ridiculous arguments about 'but cleric has heals' and 'some cleric could sometimes stalemate some GWF' and 'i saw some BiS cleric that managed to survive more than 10 sec against some not very bad CW'- well....
This is what im saying in the CW vs DC portion of the thread... Just because a BiS has a chance to win against a bad CW, is that not also class imbalance? On my CW, ive faced DCs, and the difference in THEIR gs just determines how long they last. Ive NEVER lost to a DC in 1v1 situations...
Apparently, you aren't one of them.
Anyways, this is a waste of my time spending that much responding to 1 person. You keep talking about PUG PVP, I'll keep talking about premade PVP CW.
I've said all my points, I've debunked everything said to me. Right now, the questions are being phrased in a different way and I've had to repeat the same points over and over again.
I'll just wait for you to get better and start facing PVP guilds wherein the difference between skill and gear aren't much in-between teams. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two about the differences between PUG PVP and premade PVP.
As of now, I would say I'll have to agree to disagree.
Apparently YOU aren't one of them. Im not talking about pug pvp, im talking about pvp as a WHOLE. velynna understood this, apparently you DO NOT. Ive continuously debunked everything said to me, and shared suggestions/constructive thoughts. If anything, IVE had to post, repost, and repeat the same points over and over again.
Ill just wait for you to learn to not be so narrow minded, and learn that balance means EVERYTHING must be balanced, not just making one class more OP than others(once again, seeing as you don't read, many people remember when CWs were higher tier pvp, and GWFs were garbage... apparently you do not understand how much pvp has changed). Nice when you SAY you've listened, yet ive had to repeat the same things experienced people should know to you time and time again.
Maybe then youll learn that having 1 class in the upper echelon of a gametype, doesn't mean youre an expert on the subject AS A WHOLE. Its people who look at everything, and get the bigger picture who understand how the gears are rolling. Ill take a guy who looks at all the classes, over a person throwing a fit because the 1 class they play is considered garbage to them, anyday.
With that, have a nice day
please do not bring me back into this thread, and i DO agree with some things willie has to say, also the very best CWs are Alt and Sobek, im on the tier below with everyone else
What you've done is come onto this thread, and continuously qq about CWs weaknesses in current meta(which, once again, nobody here's saying they don't(once again, to your lack of reading)), but not being sympathetic(in fact downright insulting) to classes who need more help than even CWs.
Balance means EVERYTHING should be looked at evenly. Im pretty sure giving CWs healing and tankiness on the level of DCs and GFs is about the stupidest thing ever stated. You support CW's strengths, not copy/paste other classes' strengths onto yours. Any experienced person would've seen that that's not a way to promote balance. When the HR class came out, for example, they were never meant to be an OP class, but a class with diversity, if played correctly(range dps, melee dps).
my discussion with you and velynna was merely a misunderstanding, and for that im sorry. But this guy's all about narrow minded buffing of his class for his benefit, instead of balancing pvp as a whole.
Sobek plays a GWF now fyi.
Jerkface tried out mage and he is doing well.....with a stacked premade backing him up of course.
Honestly? I'd be happy if they just fixed it so that Repel worked 100% of the time. They can take away the damage component if they like. I just want one single 100% reliable method of getting a Melee out of my face when my dodges run out.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Well, do you still qq-ing about cw weakness in pvp after seeing the facts i have stated?? Chill down and give constructive feedbacks. I hope this thread will not be closed because of flame wars, cuz there are many useful feedbacks and informations here for me to inspect.
What is "effective"? A good DC makes my GWF immortal. My TR immortal. My CW immortal vs 1 person and almost immortal vs 2 persons. All I have to do is stay near and use the shields.
How much more healing should DC have? Just asking.
Also if DCs would make a topic about DC weaknesses in PvP, then a few CWs would come and say:
"No, CWs have weaknesses too, gtfo with the DC thing and let's derail the topic to suit CW interests"
I'd consider those CWs impolite.
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