Well, its different how the CWs chose to play i guess. I will never dodge because of a threatening rush.
Then the GWF will use sure strike on me while i unleash my dps, both standing there facetanking eachother, gwf will take more damage during this phase because i will use my encounters while he wait for me to dodge, then i will force him to frontline because of damage, and i will dodge when i think he will use it.
Sometimes it goes very well sometimes it goes bad. It really depends on the GWF aswell. Because some GWF just go out spamming their encounters and if you dont dodge then you will get proned. So its mostly up to guessing and mindgames in the end
Agreed there are dif play styles. Usually the dodge isn't because of threat rush, it's because of surestrike.. If the cw just stands there, ill do takedown but regardless...if the cw isn't fond of moving I don't consider them much work. If im being cc'd or dps'd, my unstoppable will be up soon and I still have encounters in the bank. Especially with tenacity, I feel it's easy mode in most cases.
You've been around for a while Persephone, and you've always been a very vocal person so most of the PvP community knows of you.
As for the disagreeing part, well you also have a long history of arguing just to argue, it has seemed in the past that you are not concerned with the facts or actually providing any evidence to your claims (PvP related theories and what have you).
You have also been known for trolling players who don't know any better by providing tips, tricks, and theories that are generally considered poor by the hardcore PvP player base.
This just isent cool, these are people who are trying to do the research, and learn the things they need to know to be competitive, and you are purposefully steering them toward builds, encounters, and tactics that will ensure they fail and become frustrated.
/rant
If you truly enjoy this game then either share relevant, and useful information, or just don't post.
Sad part is, people like pers3phoneand rashleywizz dream in this little world where only 1 situation happens. There's enough different playstyles in this game that you won't see the same CW play the same way in PvP, and it infuriates them. I play differently then those 2, obviously, and learn to work around a classes' weaknesses, and support their strengths. Bar none, I'll always consider the CW a support class, and I'll treat it as such. If they can't take that, fine. I'll be helping my team to win, instead of qqing that I don't have the most kills.
Yes, CWs cc and burst damage got hurt with tenacity. But unlike those 2, I'll keep playing my CW instead of qqing about it, cuz I know they're getting looked at.
I've been misdirected by a few trolls in here , but have good conversations with the intelligent, non bias people in this forum.
I'll say this again, I play every character in PvP and PvE, and my CW will always be my favorite class to use for both.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
They won't be getting out of the CC because shard will be proning them. Twice.
2v2 you're going to be first target anyway so you won't be doing much of anything except dodging.
1v1 it's a crucial skill. It's like having a ranged GWF takedown... that works twice in a row and does 3x as much damage and has AOE potential.
No GWF in their right mind would ever go without something like that, and yet there's tons of CW who don't use shard on tab.
I play without using Shard at all. I do just fine without it - better than with it, actually, as outlined above. When I'm on my HR and TR I love it when a CW is running shard as it's so easy to either make disappear or simply avoid in a 1v1. ITC beats it every time, and with my HR I generally get out of any CC in time to dodge the first hit. Constricting Arrow ensures no second chance.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
Agreed there are dif play styles. Usually the dodge isn't because of threat rush, it's because of surestrike.. If the cw just stands there, ill do takedown but regardless...if the cw isn't fond of moving I don't consider them much work. If im being cc'd or dps'd, my unstoppable will be up soon and I still have encounters in the bank. Especially with tenacity, I feel it's easy mode in most cases.
Agreed. GWFs merely have to be a little patient with their takedowns/front line surges. Usually just spam threatening rush. Call their bluff and sure strike them. CW's are fragile, even PVP-built ones. The CW has 3 teleports and once that is used up, it is easy to chain prone them finishing with Indomitable Strike. If they CC you, pop Unstoppable and problem solved.
Its funny how other people who claim to have played all classes don't know how to use this combo as a GWF to pretty much make them superior to CWs. But I guess PUGs will be PUGs
I play without using Shard at all. I do just fine without it - better than with it, actually, as outlined above. When I'm on my HR and TR I love it when a CW is running shard as it's so easy to either make disappear or simply avoid in a 1v1. ITC beats it every time, and with my HR I generally get out of any CC in time to dodge the first hit. Constricting Arrow ensures no second chance.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
Shard is definitely not as powerful due to so many classes being able to bug it out easily.
I don't think it is a must for every CW to run it. What do you put on tab anyways?
I play without using Shard at all. I do just fine without it - better than with it, actually, as outlined above. When I'm on my HR and TR I love it when a CW is running shard as it's so easy to either make disappear or simply avoid in a 1v1. ITC beats it every time, and with my HR I generally get out of any CC in time to dodge the first hit. Constricting Arrow ensures no second chance.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
I tend to play without Shard either. Sometimes throw it down. When i do though, i put it on tab because its placement(while hard without training) ends up with a less predictable way to use it than NOT on tab. The "bowling ball" tactic of Shard not on tab is WAY easier to dodge. Sad that some "expert"(heh) CWs don't know that theres a difference between untabbed Shard, and Shard on normal.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Agreed. GWFs merely have to be a little patient with their takedowns/front line surges. Usually just spam threatening rush. Call their bluff and sure strike them. CW's are fragile, even PVP-built ones. The CW has 3 teleports and once that is used up, it is easy to chain prone them finishing with Indomitable Strike. If they CC you, pop Unstoppable and problem solved.
Its funny how other people who claim to have played all classes don't know how to use this combo as a GWF to pretty much make them superior to CWs. But I guess PUGs will be PUGs
Very true. CW just isn't very good in PVP, one of the worst classes in fact and simple tactics like this make it so
I play without using Shard at all. I do just fine without it - better than with it, actually, as outlined above. When I'm on my HR and TR I love it when a CW is running shard as it's so easy to either make disappear or simply avoid in a 1v1. ITC beats it every time, and with my HR I generally get out of any CC in time to dodge the first hit. Constricting Arrow ensures no second chance.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
ITC beats all CC every time... Are you saying that CWs that don't run shard cause your TR problems?
As for HRs, you have to hit them with icy roots and then immediately hit them with entangling force before they can get constricting arrow off. Then drop the shard on their head.
If they already have constricting arrow on you then obviously you don't want to be trying to pop out shard because it will just disappear.
I regularly beat HRs in 1v1s using shard on tab. TRs, not so much, but what can you do, they're TRs. I have had some success with steal time though, allowing me to at least attack them. ITC, like you say, is a CC killer, though.
Everything is less powerful post tenacity, meaning the 2 prones provided by shard on tab are even more important.
Shard is definitely not as powerful due to so many classes being able to bug it out easily.
I don't think it is a must for every CW to run it. What do you put on tab anyways?
I run Icy Rays on tab. Other encounters are typically CoI, RoE, and either EF or CS depending on the opposition. May not be the optimal combination but it suits my playstyle so I'm more effective using it than other more common setups.
ITC beats all CC every time... Are you saying that CWs that don't run shard cause your TR problems?
As for HRs, you have to hit them with icy roots and then immediately hit them with entangling force before they can get constricting arrow off. Then drop the shard on their head.
If they already have constricting arrow on you then obviously you don't want to be trying to pop out shard because it will just disappear.
I regularly beat HRs in 1v1s using shard on tab. TRs, not so much, but what can you do, they're TRs. I have had some success with steal time though, allowing me to at least attack them. ITC, like you say, is a CC killer, though.
Everything is less powerful post tenacity, meaning the 2 prones provided by shard on tab are even more important.
CWs that run DPS encounters rather than CC cause my TR more issues. Not many more, granted. Unless they're really good. But then I run a Combat Reflect TR so I'm not typical. I love MoF CWs in particular as they only have dots and my reflected damage is normally way more than incoming.
I can't remember the last time I was double proned by Shard. The vast majority of CWs in PuG matches simply don't have the necessary skill/practice/timing to use it effectively. Which is why I suggest that maybe other approaches might be more viable. For instance, my HR has way more trouble with a Renegade than a Thaum running Shard as CA is less effective due to short cast times and no Shard bugging.
I run Icy Rays on tab. Other encounters are typically CoI, RoE, and either EF or CS depending on the opposition. May not be the optimal combination but it suits my playstyle so I'm more effective using it than other more common setups.
Icy Rays on tab is a very good alternative. I don't know about COI or EF though..... but I guess I don't know your whole build
Icy Rays on tab is a very good alternative. I don't know about COI or EF though..... but I guess I don't know your whole build
People use CoI with thaumaturge build, for debuffing. Its the final end feat, if youd bother to read .
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
CWs that run DPS encounters rather than CC cause my TR more issues. Not many more, granted. Unless they're really good. But then I run a Combat Reflect TR so I'm not typical. I love MoF CWs in particular as they only have dots and my reflected damage is normally way more than incoming.
I can't remember the last time I was double proned by Shard. The vast majority of CWs in PuG matches simply don't have the necessary skill/practice/timing to use it effectively. Which is why I suggest that maybe other approaches might be more viable. For instance, my HR has way more trouble with a Renegade than a Thaum running Shard as CA is less effective due to short cast times and no Shard bugging.
That's our entire topic here fellah! Our CC is virtually useless and you yourself can attest to it, as you just said "CWs that run DPS encounters rather than CC cause my TR more issues." Thats because our CC is ridiculous and lasts 0.5 -1 seconds and that isn't enough time to do anything.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
readytoredrumMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 65Arc User
cw in pvp is pretty much underpowered compared to the rest of the classes, since its designed more for multiple targets and in pvp its better to focus dps on a single target, if they gave cws a choice of being a single or multi target build i think cw would be back to about equal in pvp because right now its pretty bad xD
It's obvious you don't play a GF by making such an absurd statement.
HAMSTER, level 60 GF, "Bloodthirsty" since Mod 2 Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
It's obvious you don't play a GF by making such an absurd statement.
I second this. I'm not going to name names , but some people in here don't care about class balance. They just want their class to be the best in PvP. Certain people are too narrow minded to acknowledge that:
A)this created imbalance before(gwf qqers, look where gwf is now)
B)there's 2 classes(DC/GF) weaker than CWs.
But I'm above calling their biased out now . Some are just stuck crying for the nerfbat or buffs to imbalance it even more. Oh well.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Quick question...is repel working better as of about the last week? Seems I'm actually being pushed away again...instead of the meager shrug..
Not just you. Did a PvP this morning where I got repeled back normal distance. But couldn't find anything in patch notes.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Repel is working as it used to against my halflings, almost not at all. Fought a few repel wizards earlier today and even as they were using Magic Missile and ray (so full stack all time basically), they couldn't achieve more than a small stun 50% of the times.
Repel is working as it used to against my halflings, almost not at all. Fought a few repel wizards earlier today and even as they were using Magic Missile and ray (so full stack all time basically), they couldn't achieve more than a small stun 50% of the times.
Hmmm, well I have been changing gears around a bit but I swear I had the same stuff on when repel was meager always. Lately, however, seems like I'm getting pushed at least 75% of the time. Also, DCs have been able to push me off point again. During a 1v1 versus a high end CW yesterday I was repelled all but once, maybe...maybe twice.
DC primary ability is wisdom, which means we are the only one class with highest control bonus that can easier cancel off your tenacity and race cc resist.
DC primary ability is wisdom, which means we are the only one class with highest control bonus that can easier cancel off your tenacity and race cc resist.
I second this. I'm not going to name names , but some people in here don't care about class balance. They just want their class to be the best in PvP. Certain people are too narrow minded to acknowledge that:
A)this created imbalance before(gwf qqers, look where gwf is now)
B)there's 2 classes(DC/GF) weaker than CWs.
But I'm above calling their biased out now . Some are just stuck crying for the nerfbat or buffs to imbalance it even more. Oh well.
Well, I think giving the CW more control power would render DCs and GFs near useless, at least for the GF I am unable to see any light anymore then, because only other range classes or a GWF is able to counter effectively the control power a CW has now; the GWF with Unstoppable and the other range classes with their range while they are not stunned or proned but rooted; am I wrong?
Well, I think giving the CW more control power would render DCs and GFs near useless, at least for the GF I am unable to see any light anymore then, because only other range classes or a GWF is able to counter effectively the control power a CW has now; the GWF with Unstoppable and the other range classes with their range while they are not stunned or proned but rooted; am I wrong?
I play a Gf at below elite pvp. The reason I beat cw's is not so much their cc power, which works quite well against me, it's their inability to capitalize on the cc with damage. I can kill a cw if I get the jump on them, no matter what they try, because I can soak up their damage, and I can close distance on them. If a cw beats me (equal geared) it is because they are a much better player.
also Cw's tend to underestimate me, and try to ignore me , which is a bad bad thing to do. The armor pen fix may be exactly what a cw needs against GF's. I have no opinion about other classes, as I don't pvp with them.
I won't name names because I'm above that :rolleyes:
But yeah...some people here are stuck on PUG pvp. Oh well :cool:
Other people here think playing with their friends all day is "0MG S0 1337."
The vast majority of PvP in Neverwinter is PuG. Your "elitest" microcosm of shut-ins comprise a relatively small portion of the community.
Regarding balance, this is a majority PvE game. I don't see why PW would have to stop all PvE development and focus 100% on PvP simply because you say so. Most of the balance changes and updates were PvE focused. A quick browse through prior patch notes and updates is evidence enough of that. Neverwinter is simply a PvE game with PvP elements, like a lot of other MMOs out there.
Funny thing is, you get more wannabe elitest ****wits like rashy on PvE games than PvP games. Just goes to show how competitive some people are.
PS - Lol, Cash Shop game.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
That's our entire topic here fellah! Our CC is virtually useless and you yourself can attest to it, as you just said "CWs that run DPS encounters rather than CC cause my TR more issues." Thats because our CC is ridiculous and lasts 0.5 -1 seconds and that isn't enough time to do anything.
I know. I also run a CW, specced almost entirely into DPS and debuff. I used to run Renegade when I could rely on Repel and EF to work consistently. Although as some others have mentioned, that seems to have received a stealth buff in the last week or so. May be time to slot it and have a play...
I play a Gf at below elite pvp. The reason I beat cw's is not so much their cc power, which works quite well against me, it's their inability to capitalize on the cc with damage. I can kill a cw if I get the jump on them, no matter what they try, because I can soak up their damage, and I can close distance on them. If a cw beats me (equal geared) it is because they are a much better player.
also Cw's tend to underestimate me, and try to ignore me , which is a bad bad thing to do. The armor pen fix may be exactly what a cw needs against GF's. I have no opinion about other classes, as I don't pvp with them.
So, CWs do not try to control you? Or just try to ignore you? I meet them most of the time with others in a Domination and in a team, their control power works well against others.
Comments
Agreed there are dif play styles. Usually the dodge isn't because of threat rush, it's because of surestrike.. If the cw just stands there, ill do takedown but regardless...if the cw isn't fond of moving I don't consider them much work. If im being cc'd or dps'd, my unstoppable will be up soon and I still have encounters in the bank. Especially with tenacity, I feel it's easy mode in most cases.
Sad part is, people like pers3phoneand rashleywizz dream in this little world where only 1 situation happens. There's enough different playstyles in this game that you won't see the same CW play the same way in PvP, and it infuriates them. I play differently then those 2, obviously, and learn to work around a classes' weaknesses, and support their strengths. Bar none, I'll always consider the CW a support class, and I'll treat it as such. If they can't take that, fine. I'll be helping my team to win, instead of qqing that I don't have the most kills.
Yes, CWs cc and burst damage got hurt with tenacity. But unlike those 2, I'll keep playing my CW instead of qqing about it, cuz I know they're getting looked at.
I've been misdirected by a few trolls in here
I'll say this again, I play every character in PvP and PvE, and my CW will always be my favorite class to use for both.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Agreed. GWFs merely have to be a little patient with their takedowns/front line surges. Usually just spam threatening rush. Call their bluff and sure strike them. CW's are fragile, even PVP-built ones. The CW has 3 teleports and once that is used up, it is easy to chain prone them finishing with Indomitable Strike. If they CC you, pop Unstoppable and problem solved.
Its funny how other people who claim to have played all classes don't know how to use this combo as a GWF to pretty much make them superior to CWs. But I guess PUGs will be PUGs
Shard is definitely not as powerful due to so many classes being able to bug it out easily.
I don't think it is a must for every CW to run it. What do you put on tab anyways?
I tend to play without Shard either. Sometimes throw it down. When i do though, i put it on tab because its placement(while hard without training) ends up with a less predictable way to use it than NOT on tab. The "bowling ball" tactic of Shard not on tab is WAY easier to dodge. Sad that some "expert"(heh) CWs don't know that theres a difference between untabbed Shard, and Shard on normal.
Very true. CW just isn't very good in PVP, one of the worst classes in fact and simple tactics like this make it so
ITC beats all CC every time... Are you saying that CWs that don't run shard cause your TR problems?
As for HRs, you have to hit them with icy roots and then immediately hit them with entangling force before they can get constricting arrow off. Then drop the shard on their head.
If they already have constricting arrow on you then obviously you don't want to be trying to pop out shard because it will just disappear.
I regularly beat HRs in 1v1s using shard on tab. TRs, not so much, but what can you do, they're TRs. I have had some success with steal time though, allowing me to at least attack them. ITC, like you say, is a CC killer, though.
Everything is less powerful post tenacity, meaning the 2 prones provided by shard on tab are even more important.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I can't remember the last time I was double proned by Shard. The vast majority of CWs in PuG matches simply don't have the necessary skill/practice/timing to use it effectively. Which is why I suggest that maybe other approaches might be more viable. For instance, my HR has way more trouble with a Renegade than a Thaum running Shard as CA is less effective due to short cast times and no Shard bugging.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Someone in this thread has a brain. Congrats
Icy Rays on tab is a very good alternative. I don't know about COI or EF though..... but I guess I don't know your whole build
Nobody said they were the best. Just not as weak played with some skill. Congrats, youre ignorant.
People use CoI with thaumaturge build, for debuffing. Its the final end feat, if youd bother to read
That's our entire topic here fellah! Our CC is virtually useless and you yourself can attest to it, as you just said "CWs that run DPS encounters rather than CC cause my TR more issues." Thats because our CC is ridiculous and lasts 0.5 -1 seconds and that isn't enough time to do anything.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Stop Pugging and you will see why you are wrong
Red
Cafè Crêpe•Control Wizard
I won't name names because I'm above that :rolleyes:
But yeah...some people here are stuck on PUG pvp. Oh well :cool:
It's obvious you don't play a GF by making such an absurd statement.
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
I second this. I'm not going to name names
A)this created imbalance before(gwf qqers, look where gwf is now)
B)there's 2 classes(DC/GF) weaker than CWs.
But I'm above calling their biased out now
Not just you. Did a PvP this morning where I got repeled back normal distance. But couldn't find anything in patch notes.
Hmmm, well I have been changing gears around a bit but I swear I had the same stuff on when repel was meager always. Lately, however, seems like I'm getting pushed at least 75% of the time. Also, DCs have been able to push me off point again. During a 1v1 versus a high end CW yesterday I was repelled all but once, maybe...maybe twice.
DC primary ability is wisdom, which means we are the only one class with highest control bonus that can easier cancel off your tenacity and race cc resist.
Well, I think giving the CW more control power would render DCs and GFs near useless, at least for the GF I am unable to see any light anymore then, because only other range classes or a GWF is able to counter effectively the control power a CW has now; the GWF with Unstoppable and the other range classes with their range while they are not stunned or proned but rooted; am I wrong?
I play a Gf at below elite pvp. The reason I beat cw's is not so much their cc power, which works quite well against me, it's their inability to capitalize on the cc with damage. I can kill a cw if I get the jump on them, no matter what they try, because I can soak up their damage, and I can close distance on them. If a cw beats me (equal geared) it is because they are a much better player.
also Cw's tend to underestimate me, and try to ignore me , which is a bad bad thing to do. The armor pen fix may be exactly what a cw needs against GF's. I have no opinion about other classes, as I don't pvp with them.
Other people here think playing with their friends all day is "0MG S0 1337."
The vast majority of PvP in Neverwinter is PuG. Your "elitest" microcosm of shut-ins comprise a relatively small portion of the community.
Regarding balance, this is a majority PvE game. I don't see why PW would have to stop all PvE development and focus 100% on PvP simply because you say so. Most of the balance changes and updates were PvE focused. A quick browse through prior patch notes and updates is evidence enough of that. Neverwinter is simply a PvE game with PvP elements, like a lot of other MMOs out there.
Funny thing is, you get more wannabe elitest ****wits like rashy on PvE games than PvP games. Just goes to show how competitive some people are.
PS - Lol, Cash Shop game.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
So, CWs do not try to control you? Or just try to ignore you? I meet them most of the time with others in a Domination and in a team, their control power works well against others.