What is "effective"? A good DC makes my GWF immortal. My TR immortal. My CW immortal vs 1 person and almost immortal vs 2 persons. All I have to do is stay near and use the shields.
How much more healing should DC have? Just asking.
Also if DCs would make a topic about DC weaknesses in PvP, then a few CWs would come and say:
"No, CWs have weaknesses too, gtfo with the DC thing and let's derail the topic to suit CW interests"
I'd consider those CWs impolite.
...
Let me do a bit of transference then:
What is "effective"? A good CW controls an enemy so a GWF can toy with him. A TR can toy with him. My CW can toy with him, because 2 enemies stunning/freezing/slowing/choking(entangling force)/proning is auto win for all but classes who can "break cc"(and for only so long). All I have to do is protect the wizard, and take advantage of his cc abilities.
How much more cc should a CW have? Just asking.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
What is "effective"? A good DC makes my GWF immortal. My TR immortal. My CW immortal vs 1 person and almost immortal vs 2 persons. All I have to do is stay near and use the shields.
How much more healing should DC have? Just asking.
Also if DCs would make a topic about DC weaknesses in PvP, then a few CWs would come and say:
"No, CWs have weaknesses too, gtfo with the DC thing and let's derail the topic to suit CW interests"
I'd consider those CWs impolite.
...
You realize you are arguing with people who have no experience other than PUG PVP?
Now I'll admit I do give everyone a chance and hear them out no matter who they are. Arguments and evidence should be the basis of logic, not one's reputation.
However, there are a couple of people here who are truly misguided and I don't think they are worth the time responding to since I believe they believe they are in the right. However, their limited experience is their flaw.
I have started out PUGGING, I have played all classes. I have played in premade games. I have watched and listened in on TONs of PM vs PM action between the top PVP guilds (because I'm not a top-10 player).
My suggestion is, ignore those specific people if they are unable to understand. Sooner or later, they will get better, they will start going on higher ranked matches, they will get BIS gear, they will fight against the best teams and then their perception will change. Until then, you will not breakthrough to those because in their limited world, it does make sense. It did in mine back then.
Don't know. I never asked for more CC for the CW. Asking questions with questions is poor manners and shows you're stuck without answers. Also my post was not addressed to you. I read your posts and find that replying to what you have to say would be futile, so I'm pretty much uninterested in any sort of conversation.
Don't know. I never asked for more CC for the CW. Asking questions with questions is poor manners and shows you're stuck without answers. Also my post was not addressed to you. I read your posts and find that replying to what you have to say would be futile, so I'm pretty much uninterested in any sort of conversation.
If this is true, it's only because you and rashleywizz are 2 of a kind here. You're too blind to actual balance, too blind to class fairness all around, and you both qq for nerfs and buffs. The past has shown that calling for the nerfbat and/or buffs has imbalanced PvP enough as it is.
You don't like someone disagreeing with you, fine. But don't come on here automatically assuming you're correct, when even experienced as PvP players are also disagreeing/debunking you, in addition to players more experienced than you, but not on top.
You're saying that DCs are a "balanced" class, because they are a support type class. You 2 seem to forget that the CW is ALSO a support class. By your own arguments, the CW should be fine as it is. But you want a support class to be superior to not only other support classes(DC/GF), but you want them competitive in combat too? As has been said before, no one argued that CWs don't need help right now. But to argue that they're the weakest PvP class is one of the stupidest and blindest things ever stated.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
And people like you are also too blind to balancing this game. I should've realized from the get go how blind and ignorant you really are. It was futile to speak to either of you, so if I need a serious, experienced person to talk to, I'll talk to the likes of velynna,alt, or others, as you're to blind to have a rational conversation with.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
And people like you are also too blind to balancing this game. I should've realized from the get go how blind and ignorant you really are. It was futile to speak to either of you, so if I need a serious, experienced person to talk to, I'll talk to the likes of velynna,alt, or others, as you're to blind to have a rational conversation with.
Are you trying to get recruited into Chocolate Shoppe Willie?
Why are you arguing with somebody who has never asked for any balance changes (me)?
I am very happy with the state of the game. I enjoy myself in it everyday. If the status quo changes, I adapt to the new one, and play the most OP imbalanced thing around.
Will the next best thing be the CW? Cool for me, time to dust off mine.
So I don't really want balance. But also not stating it exists.
What mystifies me I where I was "debunked" or where people disagreed with me. What the hell is that supposed to be. Or how would you know my PvP experience levels, as those were not stated anywhere.
You live in a curious world willie, where events happen only to you and you only. I'm also bewildered about the numerous (double/triple) posts of yours in CW topics. Why this burning passion for the CW subject willie? Are the CW guys posing a problem for you in PvP? Shed some light into the subject will you?
Are you trying to get recruited into Chocolate Shoppe Willie?
Why are you arguing with somebody who has never asked for any balance changes (me)?
I am very happy with the state of the game. I enjoy myself in it everyday. If the status quo changes, I adapt to the new one, and play the most OP imbalanced thing around.
Will the next best thing be the CW? Cool for me, time to dust off mine.
So I don't really want balance. But also not stating it exists.
What mystifies me I where I was "debunked" or where people disagreed with me. What the hell is that supposed to be. Or how would you know my PvP experience levels, as those were not stated anywhere.
You live in a curious world willie, where events happen only to you and you only. I'm also bewildered about the numerous (double/triple) posts of yours in CW topics. Why this burning passion for the CW subject willie? Are the CW guys posing a problem for you in PvP? Shed some light into the subject will you?
You've been around for a while Persephone, and you've always been a very vocal person so most of the PvP community knows of you.
As for the disagreeing part, well you also have a long history of arguing just to argue, it has seemed in the past that you are not concerned with the facts or actually providing any evidence to your claims (PvP related theories and what have you).
You have also been known for trolling players who don't know any better by providing tips, tricks, and theories that are generally considered poor by the hardcore PvP player base.
This just isent cool, these are people who are trying to do the research, and learn the things they need to know to be competitive, and you are purposefully steering them toward builds, encounters, and tactics that will ensure they fail and become frustrated.
/rant
If you truly enjoy this game then either share relevant, and useful information, or just don't post.
I was intrigued that I didn't seem to have many of the issues described in this thread. Maybe just my PuG level and playing against inexperienced players, maybe my rotation. So last night I switched to the most typical Thaum build with Shard on tab. Oh boy - now I see the problems.
Shard use requires you to stand still for way too long for my liking, immediately making CC much more important. I usually run with Icy Rays on tab and no Shard at all which allows me to be pretty much in constant motion. Using Shard made me more effective against groups fighting at Mid but utterly ineffective anywhere else. Of course I lack experience with Shard use, but even so...
It's extremely offensive to me to be confused with a wizard of questionable skills that I barely know. But as I said to others that sent me private messages, I don't really care actually.
I was intrigued that I didn't seem to have many of the issues described in this thread. Maybe just my PuG level and playing against inexperienced players, maybe my rotation. So last night I switched to the most typical Thaum build with Shard on tab. Oh boy - now I see the problems.
Shard use requires you to stand still for way too long for my liking, immediately making CC much more important. I usually run with Icy Rays on tab and no Shard at all which allows me to be pretty much in constant motion. Using Shard made me more effective against groups fighting at Mid but utterly ineffective anywhere else. Of course I lack experience with Shard use, but even so...
Shard is too easy to bug by the other player. It is very effective if the opponents stand around like idiots or if you are ganging up on them 3v1.
Otherwise, you gotta be jumping every other second while casting it and manipulating it to try and deflect attacks against you.
By the way, it is refreshing to have other people like me with perspective to talk with :eek:
Shame others here are ignorant....and are proud of it
As a CW;
I just wanted to say that my entangling last for quite a while since i usually cast it with 3-5 arcane stacks. Never with 0. But then again, you would have to drop the whole "shard" spec and lose 1 cc ability. Oh noes.
And my repel pushes far, because again, im keeping my arcane stacks up.
I think there is too much whine about the CWs at the moment. We have amazing damage and we have 3 ****ing dodges. That means we can dodge; ALL the CC abilities from a GWF, GF and most CC abilities from the HR.
CW vs TR is a joke, because TR is a joke atm.
CW vs HR is tough but doable.
CW vs GF is fine.
CW vs GWF is fine aswell.
CW vs DC is not so cool for the DC, but i have fought a few DCs that took ages to kill.
So i think the CWs are far from the worst class in the game. We have abit less survivability then the other classes but we make up for that in damage. You should try to adapt to the scenario and follow the game, like any other class does, most CWs still stayed with the shard on TAB specc after the tenacity patch went live. Which im not saying one or the other is the best. But you need to find something that suits your playstyle better if you dont like or are satisfied with one spec atm.
I agree with the rest of your comparisons except for this one. I think GWFs with their unstoppable have a huge advantage over CW. Plus, for every dodge the CW has, the GWF will merely spam Threatening Rush to pounce closer and also do damage.
Just curious, which is the worst class for you in PVP? GF?
I wouldn't say CW is much much more powerful than a GF in PVP
I agree with the rest of your comparisons except for this one. I think GWFs with their unstoppable have a huge advantage over CW. Plus, for every dodge the CW has, the GWF will merely spam Threatening Rush to pounce closer and also do damage.
Just curious, which is the worst class for you in PVP? GF?
I wouldn't say CW is much much more powerful than a GF in PVP
CW vs GF is balanced. It mostly comes down to skill, which it should.
CW vs GWF i think its balanced as well, GWFs are maybe abit better as it stands now since their encounters does more damage then ice knife but they are not unbeatable. You really dont need to dodge threatening rush, you do damage aswell while they spam it. Id rather save my dodges for frontline and takedown.
I think PvP is fine as it is. mod3 will **** it up more. The only thing that needs a fix is the TR and HRs. With the right person playing they can be a nightmare.
CW vs GF is balanced. It mostly comes down to skill, which it should.
CW vs GWF i think its balanced as well, GWFs are maybe abit better as it stands now since their encounters does more damage then ice knife but they are not unbeatable. You really dont need to dodge threatening rush, you do damage aswell while they spam it. Id rather save my dodges for frontline and takedown.
I think PvP is fine as it is. mod3 will **** it up more. The only thing that needs a fix is the TR and HRs. With the right person playing they can be a nightmare.
I agree CW vs GF is balanced and does come down to skill.
What I meant to say was, the GWF saves their frontline and takedown after a CW dodges. They spam threatening rush to make the CW use up their dodges to gain distance.
CW vs GWF i think its balanced as well, GWFs are maybe abit better as it stands now since their encounters does more damage then ice knife but they are not unbeatable. You really dont need to dodge threatening rush, you do damage aswell while they spam it. Id rather save my dodges for frontline and takedown.
Problem is, is that if I use threatening rush to get to you I'm not concerned with my encounters until your dodges are gone. I'm content using surestrike in the meantime.
ETA: If the cw is sloppy about it, I'll frontline right after a dodge while I'm at a distance that some believe they are safe.
Problem is, is that if I use threatening rush to get to you I'm not concerned with my encounters until your dodges are gone. I'm content using surestrike in the meantime.
ETA: If the cw is sloppy about it, I'll frontline right after a dodge while I'm at a distance that some believe they are safe.
Well, its different how the CWs chose to play i guess. I will never dodge because of a threatening rush.
Then the GWF will use sure strike on me while i unleash my dps, both standing there facetanking eachother, gwf will take more damage during this phase because i will use my encounters while he wait for me to dodge, then i will force him to frontline because of damage, and i will dodge when i think he will use it.
Sometimes it goes very well sometimes it goes bad. It really depends on the GWF aswell. Because some GWF just go out spamming their encounters and if you dont dodge then you will get proned. So its mostly up to guessing and mindgames in the end
Well, its different how the CWs chose to play i guess. I will never dodge because of a threatening rush.
Then the GWF will use sure strike on me while i unleash my dps, both standing there facetanking eachother, gwf will take more damage during this phase because i will use my encounters while he wait for me to dodge, then i will force him to frontline because of damage, and i will dodge when i think he will use it.
Sometimes it goes very well sometimes it goes bad. It really depends on the GWF aswell. Because some GWF just go out spamming their encounters and if you dont dodge then you will get proned. So its mostly up to guessing and mindgames in the end
Agreed there are dif play styles. Usually the dodge isn't because of threat rush, it's because of surestrike.. If the cw just stands there, ill do takedown but regardless...if the cw isn't fond of moving I don't consider them much work. If im being cc'd or dps'd, my unstoppable will be up soon and I still have encounters in the bank. Especially with tenacity, I feel it's easy mode in most cases.
You've been around for a while Persephone, and you've always been a very vocal person so most of the PvP community knows of you.
As for the disagreeing part, well you also have a long history of arguing just to argue, it has seemed in the past that you are not concerned with the facts or actually providing any evidence to your claims (PvP related theories and what have you).
You have also been known for trolling players who don't know any better by providing tips, tricks, and theories that are generally considered poor by the hardcore PvP player base.
This just isent cool, these are people who are trying to do the research, and learn the things they need to know to be competitive, and you are purposefully steering them toward builds, encounters, and tactics that will ensure they fail and become frustrated.
/rant
If you truly enjoy this game then either share relevant, and useful information, or just don't post.
Sad part is, people like pers3phoneand rashleywizz dream in this little world where only 1 situation happens. There's enough different playstyles in this game that you won't see the same CW play the same way in PvP, and it infuriates them. I play differently then those 2, obviously, and learn to work around a classes' weaknesses, and support their strengths. Bar none, I'll always consider the CW a support class, and I'll treat it as such. If they can't take that, fine. I'll be helping my team to win, instead of qqing that I don't have the most kills.
Yes, CWs cc and burst damage got hurt with tenacity. But unlike those 2, I'll keep playing my CW instead of qqing about it, cuz I know they're getting looked at.
I've been misdirected by a few trolls in here , but have good conversations with the intelligent, non bias people in this forum.
I'll say this again, I play every character in PvP and PvE, and my CW will always be my favorite class to use for both.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
They won't be getting out of the CC because shard will be proning them. Twice.
2v2 you're going to be first target anyway so you won't be doing much of anything except dodging.
1v1 it's a crucial skill. It's like having a ranged GWF takedown... that works twice in a row and does 3x as much damage and has AOE potential.
No GWF in their right mind would ever go without something like that, and yet there's tons of CW who don't use shard on tab.
I play without using Shard at all. I do just fine without it - better than with it, actually, as outlined above. When I'm on my HR and TR I love it when a CW is running shard as it's so easy to either make disappear or simply avoid in a 1v1. ITC beats it every time, and with my HR I generally get out of any CC in time to dodge the first hit. Constricting Arrow ensures no second chance.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
Agreed there are dif play styles. Usually the dodge isn't because of threat rush, it's because of surestrike.. If the cw just stands there, ill do takedown but regardless...if the cw isn't fond of moving I don't consider them much work. If im being cc'd or dps'd, my unstoppable will be up soon and I still have encounters in the bank. Especially with tenacity, I feel it's easy mode in most cases.
Agreed. GWFs merely have to be a little patient with their takedowns/front line surges. Usually just spam threatening rush. Call their bluff and sure strike them. CW's are fragile, even PVP-built ones. The CW has 3 teleports and once that is used up, it is easy to chain prone them finishing with Indomitable Strike. If they CC you, pop Unstoppable and problem solved.
Its funny how other people who claim to have played all classes don't know how to use this combo as a GWF to pretty much make them superior to CWs. But I guess PUGs will be PUGs
I play without using Shard at all. I do just fine without it - better than with it, actually, as outlined above. When I'm on my HR and TR I love it when a CW is running shard as it's so easy to either make disappear or simply avoid in a 1v1. ITC beats it every time, and with my HR I generally get out of any CC in time to dodge the first hit. Constricting Arrow ensures no second chance.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
Shard is definitely not as powerful due to so many classes being able to bug it out easily.
I don't think it is a must for every CW to run it. What do you put on tab anyways?
I play without using Shard at all. I do just fine without it - better than with it, actually, as outlined above. When I'm on my HR and TR I love it when a CW is running shard as it's so easy to either make disappear or simply avoid in a 1v1. ITC beats it every time, and with my HR I generally get out of any CC in time to dodge the first hit. Constricting Arrow ensures no second chance.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
I tend to play without Shard either. Sometimes throw it down. When i do though, i put it on tab because its placement(while hard without training) ends up with a less predictable way to use it than NOT on tab. The "bowling ball" tactic of Shard not on tab is WAY easier to dodge. Sad that some "expert"(heh) CWs don't know that theres a difference between untabbed Shard, and Shard on normal.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Agreed. GWFs merely have to be a little patient with their takedowns/front line surges. Usually just spam threatening rush. Call their bluff and sure strike them. CW's are fragile, even PVP-built ones. The CW has 3 teleports and once that is used up, it is easy to chain prone them finishing with Indomitable Strike. If they CC you, pop Unstoppable and problem solved.
Its funny how other people who claim to have played all classes don't know how to use this combo as a GWF to pretty much make them superior to CWs. But I guess PUGs will be PUGs
Very true. CW just isn't very good in PVP, one of the worst classes in fact and simple tactics like this make it so
I play without using Shard at all. I do just fine without it - better than with it, actually, as outlined above. When I'm on my HR and TR I love it when a CW is running shard as it's so easy to either make disappear or simply avoid in a 1v1. ITC beats it every time, and with my HR I generally get out of any CC in time to dodge the first hit. Constricting Arrow ensures no second chance.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
ITC beats all CC every time... Are you saying that CWs that don't run shard cause your TR problems?
As for HRs, you have to hit them with icy roots and then immediately hit them with entangling force before they can get constricting arrow off. Then drop the shard on their head.
If they already have constricting arrow on you then obviously you don't want to be trying to pop out shard because it will just disappear.
I regularly beat HRs in 1v1s using shard on tab. TRs, not so much, but what can you do, they're TRs. I have had some success with steal time though, allowing me to at least attack them. ITC, like you say, is a CC killer, though.
Everything is less powerful post tenacity, meaning the 2 prones provided by shard on tab are even more important.
Shard is definitely not as powerful due to so many classes being able to bug it out easily.
I don't think it is a must for every CW to run it. What do you put on tab anyways?
I run Icy Rays on tab. Other encounters are typically CoI, RoE, and either EF or CS depending on the opposition. May not be the optimal combination but it suits my playstyle so I'm more effective using it than other more common setups.
ITC beats all CC every time... Are you saying that CWs that don't run shard cause your TR problems?
As for HRs, you have to hit them with icy roots and then immediately hit them with entangling force before they can get constricting arrow off. Then drop the shard on their head.
If they already have constricting arrow on you then obviously you don't want to be trying to pop out shard because it will just disappear.
I regularly beat HRs in 1v1s using shard on tab. TRs, not so much, but what can you do, they're TRs. I have had some success with steal time though, allowing me to at least attack them. ITC, like you say, is a CC killer, though.
Everything is less powerful post tenacity, meaning the 2 prones provided by shard on tab are even more important.
CWs that run DPS encounters rather than CC cause my TR more issues. Not many more, granted. Unless they're really good. But then I run a Combat Reflect TR so I'm not typical. I love MoF CWs in particular as they only have dots and my reflected damage is normally way more than incoming.
I can't remember the last time I was double proned by Shard. The vast majority of CWs in PuG matches simply don't have the necessary skill/practice/timing to use it effectively. Which is why I suggest that maybe other approaches might be more viable. For instance, my HR has way more trouble with a Renegade than a Thaum running Shard as CA is less effective due to short cast times and no Shard bugging.
Comments
Let me do a bit of transference then:
What is "effective"? A good CW controls an enemy so a GWF can toy with him. A TR can toy with him. My CW can toy with him, because 2 enemies stunning/freezing/slowing/choking(entangling force)/proning is auto win for all but classes who can "break cc"(and for only so long). All I have to do is protect the wizard, and take advantage of his cc abilities.
How much more cc should a CW have? Just asking.
You sir get it. Its sad others don't but I'm glad someone here does
You realize you are arguing with people who have no experience other than PUG PVP?
Now I'll admit I do give everyone a chance and hear them out no matter who they are. Arguments and evidence should be the basis of logic, not one's reputation.
However, there are a couple of people here who are truly misguided and I don't think they are worth the time responding to since I believe they believe they are in the right. However, their limited experience is their flaw.
I have started out PUGGING, I have played all classes. I have played in premade games. I have watched and listened in on TONs of PM vs PM action between the top PVP guilds (because I'm not a top-10 player).
My suggestion is, ignore those specific people if they are unable to understand. Sooner or later, they will get better, they will start going on higher ranked matches, they will get BIS gear, they will fight against the best teams and then their perception will change. Until then, you will not breakthrough to those because in their limited world, it does make sense. It did in mine back then.
Don't know. I never asked for more CC for the CW. Asking questions with questions is poor manners and shows you're stuck without answers. Also my post was not addressed to you. I read your posts and find that replying to what you have to say would be futile, so I'm pretty much uninterested in any sort of conversation.
If this is true, it's only because you and rashleywizz are 2 of a kind here. You're too blind to actual balance, too blind to class fairness all around, and you both qq for nerfs and buffs. The past has shown that calling for the nerfbat and/or buffs has imbalanced PvP enough as it is.
You don't like someone disagreeing with you, fine. But don't come on here automatically assuming you're correct, when even experienced as PvP players are also disagreeing/debunking you, in addition to players more experienced than you, but not on top.
You're saying that DCs are a "balanced" class, because they are a support type class. You 2 seem to forget that the CW is ALSO a support class. By your own arguments, the CW should be fine as it is. But you want a support class to be superior to not only other support classes(DC/GF), but you want them competitive in combat too? As has been said before, no one argued that CWs don't need help right now. But to argue that they're the weakest PvP class is one of the stupidest and blindest things ever stated.
Are you trying to get recruited into Chocolate Shoppe Willie?
Why are you arguing with somebody who has never asked for any balance changes (me)?
I am very happy with the state of the game. I enjoy myself in it everyday. If the status quo changes, I adapt to the new one, and play the most OP imbalanced thing around.
Will the next best thing be the CW? Cool for me, time to dust off mine.
So I don't really want balance. But also not stating it exists.
What mystifies me I where I was "debunked" or where people disagreed with me. What the hell is that supposed to be. Or how would you know my PvP experience levels, as those were not stated anywhere.
You live in a curious world willie, where events happen only to you and you only. I'm also bewildered about the numerous (double/triple) posts of yours in CW topics. Why this burning passion for the CW subject willie? Are the CW guys posing a problem for you in PvP? Shed some light into the subject will you?
You've been around for a while Persephone, and you've always been a very vocal person so most of the PvP community knows of you.
As for the disagreeing part, well you also have a long history of arguing just to argue, it has seemed in the past that you are not concerned with the facts or actually providing any evidence to your claims (PvP related theories and what have you).
You have also been known for trolling players who don't know any better by providing tips, tricks, and theories that are generally considered poor by the hardcore PvP player base.
This just isent cool, these are people who are trying to do the research, and learn the things they need to know to be competitive, and you are purposefully steering them toward builds, encounters, and tactics that will ensure they fail and become frustrated.
/rant
If you truly enjoy this game then either share relevant, and useful information, or just don't post.
I was intrigued that I didn't seem to have many of the issues described in this thread. Maybe just my PuG level and playing against inexperienced players, maybe my rotation. So last night I switched to the most typical Thaum build with Shard on tab. Oh boy - now I see the problems.
Shard use requires you to stand still for way too long for my liking, immediately making CC much more important. I usually run with Icy Rays on tab and no Shard at all which allows me to be pretty much in constant motion. Using Shard made me more effective against groups fighting at Mid but utterly ineffective anywhere else. Of course I lack experience with Shard use, but even so...
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Shard is too easy to bug by the other player. It is very effective if the opponents stand around like idiots or if you are ganging up on them 3v1.
Otherwise, you gotta be jumping every other second while casting it and manipulating it to try and deflect attacks against you.
By the way, it is refreshing to have other people like me with perspective to talk with :eek:
Shame others here are ignorant....and are proud of it
I just wanted to say that my entangling last for quite a while since i usually cast it with 3-5 arcane stacks. Never with 0. But then again, you would have to drop the whole "shard" spec and lose 1 cc ability. Oh noes.
And my repel pushes far, because again, im keeping my arcane stacks up.
I think there is too much whine about the CWs at the moment. We have amazing damage and we have 3 ****ing dodges. That means we can dodge; ALL the CC abilities from a GWF, GF and most CC abilities from the HR.
CW vs TR is a joke, because TR is a joke atm.
CW vs HR is tough but doable.
CW vs GF is fine.
CW vs GWF is fine aswell.
CW vs DC is not so cool for the DC, but i have fought a few DCs that took ages to kill.
So i think the CWs are far from the worst class in the game. We have abit less survivability then the other classes but we make up for that in damage. You should try to adapt to the scenario and follow the game, like any other class does, most CWs still stayed with the shard on TAB specc after the tenacity patch went live. Which im not saying one or the other is the best. But you need to find something that suits your playstyle better if you dont like or are satisfied with one spec atm.
I agree with the rest of your comparisons except for this one. I think GWFs with their unstoppable have a huge advantage over CW. Plus, for every dodge the CW has, the GWF will merely spam Threatening Rush to pounce closer and also do damage.
Just curious, which is the worst class for you in PVP? GF?
I wouldn't say CW is much much more powerful than a GF in PVP
CW vs GF is balanced. It mostly comes down to skill, which it should.
CW vs GWF i think its balanced as well, GWFs are maybe abit better as it stands now since their encounters does more damage then ice knife but they are not unbeatable. You really dont need to dodge threatening rush, you do damage aswell while they spam it. Id rather save my dodges for frontline and takedown.
I think PvP is fine as it is. mod3 will **** it up more. The only thing that needs a fix is the TR and HRs. With the right person playing they can be a nightmare.
I agree CW vs GF is balanced and does come down to skill.
What I meant to say was, the GWF saves their frontline and takedown after a CW dodges. They spam threatening rush to make the CW use up their dodges to gain distance.
Problem is, is that if I use threatening rush to get to you I'm not concerned with my encounters until your dodges are gone. I'm content using surestrike in the meantime.
ETA: If the cw is sloppy about it, I'll frontline right after a dodge while I'm at a distance that some believe they are safe.
Well, its different how the CWs chose to play i guess. I will never dodge because of a threatening rush.
Then the GWF will use sure strike on me while i unleash my dps, both standing there facetanking eachother, gwf will take more damage during this phase because i will use my encounters while he wait for me to dodge, then i will force him to frontline because of damage, and i will dodge when i think he will use it.
Sometimes it goes very well sometimes it goes bad. It really depends on the GWF aswell. Because some GWF just go out spamming their encounters and if you dont dodge then you will get proned. So its mostly up to guessing and mindgames in the end
Shard is impossible to bug out if you only use it when the opponent is CC'ed.
But yeah if you're using shard on people without icy roots/entangling first, it's not going to seem very effective.
It can still be easily bugged out once the opponent gets out of CC or if its a 2v2 match
They won't be getting out of the CC because shard will be proning them. Twice.
2v2 you're going to be first target anyway so you won't be doing much of anything except dodging.
1v1 it's a crucial skill. It's like having a ranged GWF takedown... that works twice in a row and does 3x as much damage and has AOE potential.
No GWF in their right mind would ever go without something like that, and yet there's tons of CW who don't use shard on tab.
Agreed there are dif play styles. Usually the dodge isn't because of threat rush, it's because of surestrike.. If the cw just stands there, ill do takedown but regardless...if the cw isn't fond of moving I don't consider them much work. If im being cc'd or dps'd, my unstoppable will be up soon and I still have encounters in the bank. Especially with tenacity, I feel it's easy mode in most cases.
Sad part is, people like pers3phoneand rashleywizz dream in this little world where only 1 situation happens. There's enough different playstyles in this game that you won't see the same CW play the same way in PvP, and it infuriates them. I play differently then those 2, obviously, and learn to work around a classes' weaknesses, and support their strengths. Bar none, I'll always consider the CW a support class, and I'll treat it as such. If they can't take that, fine. I'll be helping my team to win, instead of qqing that I don't have the most kills.
Yes, CWs cc and burst damage got hurt with tenacity. But unlike those 2, I'll keep playing my CW instead of qqing about it, cuz I know they're getting looked at.
I've been misdirected by a few trolls in here
I'll say this again, I play every character in PvP and PvE, and my CW will always be my favorite class to use for both.
Shard was really powerful pre Tenacity. Now, not so much.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Agreed. GWFs merely have to be a little patient with their takedowns/front line surges. Usually just spam threatening rush. Call their bluff and sure strike them. CW's are fragile, even PVP-built ones. The CW has 3 teleports and once that is used up, it is easy to chain prone them finishing with Indomitable Strike. If they CC you, pop Unstoppable and problem solved.
Its funny how other people who claim to have played all classes don't know how to use this combo as a GWF to pretty much make them superior to CWs. But I guess PUGs will be PUGs
Shard is definitely not as powerful due to so many classes being able to bug it out easily.
I don't think it is a must for every CW to run it. What do you put on tab anyways?
I tend to play without Shard either. Sometimes throw it down. When i do though, i put it on tab because its placement(while hard without training) ends up with a less predictable way to use it than NOT on tab. The "bowling ball" tactic of Shard not on tab is WAY easier to dodge. Sad that some "expert"(heh) CWs don't know that theres a difference between untabbed Shard, and Shard on normal.
Very true. CW just isn't very good in PVP, one of the worst classes in fact and simple tactics like this make it so
ITC beats all CC every time... Are you saying that CWs that don't run shard cause your TR problems?
As for HRs, you have to hit them with icy roots and then immediately hit them with entangling force before they can get constricting arrow off. Then drop the shard on their head.
If they already have constricting arrow on you then obviously you don't want to be trying to pop out shard because it will just disappear.
I regularly beat HRs in 1v1s using shard on tab. TRs, not so much, but what can you do, they're TRs. I have had some success with steal time though, allowing me to at least attack them. ITC, like you say, is a CC killer, though.
Everything is less powerful post tenacity, meaning the 2 prones provided by shard on tab are even more important.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I can't remember the last time I was double proned by Shard. The vast majority of CWs in PuG matches simply don't have the necessary skill/practice/timing to use it effectively. Which is why I suggest that maybe other approaches might be more viable. For instance, my HR has way more trouble with a Renegade than a Thaum running Shard as CA is less effective due to short cast times and no Shard bugging.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder