I understand that the correct stats will be on the next patch. What I want to understand is what the stats are when the gear is empowered and what the stats are when the gear is NOT empowered. Hopefully once the correct gear is on preview, we can get a better understanding of how the base gear is configured and what you gain through empowering the gear with black ice. I would love for a DEV to give a clear explanation. Not criticizing. ..just curious.
Yes obviously the stats and set bonuses aren't final. It can't be that bad. :eek:
Please keep in mind that we're mainly chosing a set for the set bonus, and, to a lesser extent, for the stats, but as long as the stats aren't completely absurd, and have some power/crit/def we'll mainly look at the bonus. I'd really like some more options for my cleric and getting rid of the non-choice high vizier set for my CW. Now one question remains, where are we going to use these sets except in pvp since the new pve content is so easy...
new gwf sets are failure u we do not have even one version with high power+some recovery+some crtic strike what should we do with usless lifesteel or even worse movment ?remove movment and life steel from gwf corrupted sets and give us real ofensive sets u just made new sets totaly useless why would u replace crtic strike with useless movment? what is point of recovery wehen u removed power for it instead of just replaceing life steel on old sets with recovery
remove movement and replace it with power on set with high recovery and remove lifesteel and replace with crtic strike then we might have normal ofensive set
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited April 2014
Well, the DC gear is better - much less life steal than before. It's a shame though that it's not really a viable choice for PvE outside Icewind Dale, but it is at least worth getting for DCs that like PvP and want a single gear set for PvP and PvE in IWD.
CW gear has a serious lack of recovery. This will cause a lot of rework for most CWs in stat rerolls, accessory and enchant change outs. We could use some more recovery on these sets.
Firstly a big thank you for updating the sets, looking better, but there is an issue:
Bug: Hit points value on all Module 3 items are out by a factor of 4, leading to inconsistencies in overall GS from each set.
Currently the value of Hit Points stats on gear is usually 4x the normal value. For example, a Grand slave master's ring of control has 150 power, 150 crit, 150 recovery but Grand Priest's ring of burning light has 600 hit points, 150 defense, 150 deflect.
Gear in Module 3 do not obey this rule, the hit points assigned to items is only a quarter of the value (i.e. 1:1 for exchanged stat).
For example, I believe the black ice accessories should all have the same stat total, but you can see that the belt only has 138 Max hit points instead of 552. Please adjust this for all items with Hit points (multiply by 4) for consistency across sets and modules.
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Depends..it is positioned as a PvP set, of course, but with the right enchants it seems it would be quite OK for solo PvE. For instances you would still want High Prophet for buffing or one of the two "healing" sets. I really hope Module 4 will offer a sensible PvE upgrade, but at least the revised DC set is not as bad now as it seemed at first.
What I would like to know, however, is how the gear stats change depending on whether it is "charged" with lack Ice or not ... what are the actual numbers.
new gwf sets are failure u we do not have even one version with high power+some recovery+some crtic strike what should we do with usless lifesteel or even worse movment ?remove movment and life steel from gwf corrupted sets and give us real ofensive sets u just made new sets totaly useless why would u replace crtic strike with useless movment? what is point of recovery wehen u removed power for it instead of just replaceing life steel on old sets with recovery
remove movement and replace it with power on set with high recovery and remove lifesteel and replace with crtic strike then we might have normal ofensive set
Thanks for the feedback Warpet. One of the things we wanted to try with these sets was to introduce some additional choices for players when looking at their gear. If we replace lifesteal on the Dread Legion set with Recovery, we get the same stat allocation as is on the Fabled Iliyanbruen set, the Avatar of War set, and the Drake set. I was looking to introduce some variety for gearing, but I really appreciate your thoughts on the black ice sets.
Thanks for the feedback Warpet. One of the things we wanted to try with these sets was to introduce some additional choices for players when looking at their gear. If we replace lifesteal on the Dread Legion set with Recovery, we get the same stat allocation as is on the Fabled Iliyanbruen set, the Avatar of War set, and the Drake set. I was looking to introduce some variety for gearing, but I really appreciate your thoughts on the black ice sets.
The real issue here is that we are required to use these sets to advance in the campaign. Thus they should be a step above what we use now. As a CW with High Vizer, I must totally rearange my stat rolls and accessories and enchants in order to balance out for the lack of recovery. Not unlike what Warpet is describing about the sets for GWF.
Thanks for the feedback Warpet. One of the things we wanted to try with these sets was to introduce some additional choices for players when looking at their gear. If we replace lifesteal on the Dread Legion set with Recovery, we get the same stat allocation as is on the Fabled Iliyanbruen set, the Avatar of War set, and the Drake set. I was looking to introduce some variety for gearing, but I really appreciate your thoughts on the black ice sets.
problem of new black ice sets is movement can u at least replace it with power or crtic strike where we got power all ready, purified sets for example looks good but currupted are ruined with movement
im sory for miss understanding i do not want u to replace life steel on dread set i when i said old sets i meaned old black ice sets who had power+crtic+lifesteel
problem of new black ice sets is movement can u at least replace it with power or crtic strike where we got power all ready, purified sets for example looks good but currupted are ruined with movement
im sory for miss understanding i do not want u to replace life steel on dread set i when i said old sets i meaned old black ice sets who had power+crtic+lifesteel
Oh, I see what you meant. Thanks for clarifying your suggestion, Warpet, I really appreciate the quick feedback.
Movement is a stat that all classes have on these sets, so I'm interested to see how people feel about having it. I am looking at this thread every day and will be considering all the feedback we gather through the whole Preview period.
The real issue here is that we are required to use these sets to advance in the campaign. Thus they should be a step above what we use now. As a CW with High Vizer, I must totally rearange my stat rolls and accessories and enchants in order to balance out for the lack of recovery. Not unlike what Warpet is describing about the sets for GWF.
I was keen for these sets to not simply be High Vizier + higher stats, or Dread Legion + higher stats, but a set that was pretty different and interesting for classes. I would think that with any new set there would be some amount of rearranging and rebalancing enchants, but I get the feeling you think this set requires too much of that? The fact the set is required to some degree in the new content is an excellent one - it's one of the reasons that this thread is extremely valuable, and your feedback is much appreciated.
Depends..it is positioned as a PvP set, of course, but with the right enchants it seems it would be quite OK for solo PvE. For instances you would still want High Prophet for buffing or one of the two "healing" sets. I really hope Module 4 will offer a sensible PvE upgrade, but at least the revised DC set is not as bad now as it seemed at first.
Edit: maybe its empowerment is the clue. But its set bonus still bad, even boring, for PVE
I was keen for these sets to not simply be High Vizier + higher stats, or Dread Legion + higher stats, but a set that was pretty different and interesting for classes. I would think that with any new set there would be some amount of rearranging and rebalancing enchants, but I get the feeling you think this set requires too much of that? The fact the set is required to some degree in the new content is an excellent one - it's one of the reasons that this thread is extremely valuable, and your feedback is much appreciated.
Well currently the set bonuses are plainly bad. A small damage increase for the CW or the cleric? when we have currently +30% damage set bonuses, for the whole party (high prophet or high vizier). Now, I understand that you don't want to make such sets again, but something really different, not being a small damage done to a random foe or a weird stat bonus, would be appreciated. What about something like "encounters add one stack of chill to foes you hit with an encounter spell" for a wizard? I don't really have any giood ideas for clerics but currently, I don't like any of the current set bonuses and feel like the old high vizier and High prophet sets are going to get another 3 months of extra life waiting for something not even better but interesting.
I was keen for these sets to not simply be High Vizier + higher stats, or Dread Legion + higher stats, but a set that was pretty different and interesting for classes. I would think that with any new set there would be some amount of rearranging and rebalancing enchants, but I get the feeling you think this set requires too much of that? The fact the set is required to some degree in the new content is an excellent one - it's one of the reasons that this thread is extremely valuable, and your feedback is much appreciated.
I agree with your intent, and by no means am I upset about the requirement of the Black Ice set to be used to progress. My point is simply there are certain stats that are important to make each class as efficient as possible for the roles they play. For a CW we will usually stack Recovery to a soft cap of 3k to 3.5k, arp to 2.2k to 2.5k, crit to around 2k for spellstorm mage and the rest into power while trying to get hp/def/regen/ls to the 1k + mark. So when your aim as an end game pve focused player is efficient use of stats, when mod 3 rolls around you hope that you can maximize further, in the case of a CW, power and defensive stats so that you do not have to waste what you worked so hard to accomplish up to that point.
I am sure it will be the same (just different stats) for each class in the game.
I agree with your intent, and by no means am I upset about the requirement of the Black Ice set to be used to progress. My point is simply there are certain stats that are important to make each class as efficient as possible for the roles they play. For a CW we will usually stack Recovery to a soft cap of 3k to 3.5k, arp to 2.2k to 2.5k, crit to around 2k for spellstorm mage and the rest into power while trying to get hp/def/regen/ls to the 1k + mark. So when your aim as an end game pve focused player is efficient use of stats, when mod 3 rolls around you hope that you can maximize further, in the case of a CW, power and defensive stats so that you do not have to waste what you worked so hard to accomplish up to that point.
I am sure it will be the same (just different stats) for each class in the game.
I don't agree. I'd drop recovery to 0 if i could get free arpen or crit instead. Just to prove the point that more varied stats allocation may indeed be interesting for different players with a different playstyle. Not everyone plays a sing bot.
I don't agree. I'd drop recovery to 0 if i could get free arpen or crit instead. Just to prove the point that more varied stats allocation may indeed be interesting for different players with a different playstyle. Not everyone plays a sing bot.
I am a 17.5 K gs, 9K power, HV, pointy hat wearing CW and am no sing bot. Quite the contrary.
But we all can't be GOD....but are entitled to our opinions.
i noticed 1 more thing becuause purified gear dose not have movement and movment dose not improve gs atm purified gear will give a lot more gs to ppl who use it instead of currupted
for example i did some calculations on black ice gear ,purified graves can give 1401 to gs while currupted graves will give 996,purified helm can give 1401 gs while currupted helm will give 996
rest of gear is balanced on stats but because of this 2 part we will lose 800 gs if we take currupted gear instead of purified and this difference will improve as we power up gear with black ice
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I was keen for these sets to not simply be High Vizier + higher stats, or Dread Legion + higher stats, but a set that was pretty different and interesting for classes. I would think that with any new set there would be some amount of rearranging and rebalancing enchants, but I get the feeling you think this set requires too much of that? The fact the set is required to some degree in the new content is an excellent one - it's one of the reasons that this thread is extremely valuable, and your feedback is much appreciated.
Honestly I don't personally think the Stats are everything on a piece of armor. Yes the ones mages use are specific. But its really how you work the set bonus that matters most.
Example.
HV is a defense reduction/defense buff gain. Very useful, not just for the mage but for the party as well.
Magelord is what... a 900 point recovery gain for faster casting...
Magelord sounds good on the surface until you realize recovery soft caps and most mages cannot make use of it no matter what they do because they're already at or close to the soft cap.
(I grabbed the set so I could get a cool title, but that was all its worth really)
If you wanted to give Magelord the same kind of usefulness HV has, then the proper direction would be for some kind of direct recharge speed increase. Anything that relies on any kind of stat that soft caps will be cast aside by mages as they gain nothing by using it or only gain a marginal effect.
So the only things that are useful are direct damage % increases, direct power increases, direct armor/defense reduction, or direct recharge increases. One that would be surprisingly handy given how often mages have to teleport around to position themselves for spells or run from enemies is a Stamina recharge/boost set.
If stats didn't soft cap, then you could use Stat increasing set bonuses, but unfortunately they do.
Other Ideas would be Combat Advantage damage increases (big amongst Renegade spec), Crit damage increases. EDIT: You could even go in the direction of % increases to specific feats. Like increasing the % of Nightmare Wizardry instead.
Those are the things that make a set bonus attractive to mages. Simple stats are not utilized with the exception of power as they soft cap out eventually.
The set bonuses will have to be tested to gauge their effectiveness. However it would be nice to replace (as was also asked for by a GWF for that class set) movement and/or deflect with recovery from the corrupted CW gear. This would allow a CW to then focus enchants on the stat they want to stack. In my case it is power...for others it may be something else. Having 0 recovery on the gear limits my choices in accessories to enhance my build as I am severly handicapped on the recovery side.
I was keen for these sets to not simply be High Vizier + higher stats, or Dread Legion + higher stats, but a set that was pretty different and interesting for classes. I would think that with any new set there would be some amount of rearranging and rebalancing enchants, but I get the feeling you think this set requires too much of that? The fact the set is required to some degree in the new content is an excellent one - it's one of the reasons that this thread is extremely valuable, and your feedback is much appreciated.
the problem with the new black ice gear, its that the only thing going for it currently is the large amount of tenacity, everything else on it, compared to sets such as profound thaumaturge, or high viziers, black ice gear is pretty useless. also what with your insistance of giving dc's arpen and lifesteal? those stats are useless for devoted clerics, they would be better off with more recovery/crit/power, but back to cw's armors. the reason why high viziers will never be replaced by good players, is that because it makes trash mobs defense become negative it instantly outclasses other gear sets like shadow weaver. pure damage increase for everyone is much more desirable then the extra lifesteal because we dont need more healing, we just want to clear the HAMSTER mobs out of the way faster, and for the pvp zone the grim and thaum sets will be better because of the armor set ability 35% Cooldown on tab and a additional 7.5%dmg increase is much more significant in group fights than the current black ice sets, and again going to reference clerics here, currently with healing depression, even with profound tenacity gear they are extremely squishy. and good pvp clerics do not even use the profound set becuase it has become so useless, they use miracle healers and stack hp so their healing ability are actually viable, because without this set 1 cleric and lets say a cw will die to a single trickster rogue, or a great weapon fighter and that should not happen.
so please try to make these sets useful, lifesteal is extremely unimportant in pvp, and in pve with endless consumption 1-1.2k lifesteal is enough, i can already 3 man castle never with 3 cws running 1-1.2k lifesteal high viziers and using endless consumption, because the proc rate of endless consumption is insane and if it applies, it applies to all hits, for example, a crit opressive force, hits about 20 creatures, the end exploision can crit up to 35k on each creature with perfect vorpal (which we all use in my group) the end heal from that explosion ive seen go up to and can go past 150k. yes healing for 150k is useless, but its nearly a full heal with each encounter use.
Also lifesteal in comparison to regeneration (even with healing depression) regeneration is 3x more effective than a person using alot of lifesteal (with endless consumption)
finally, movement speed? no one needs movements speed, consider this, if you are in a open pvp area, most of the time you will be on your mount, movement speed on your character DOES NOT currently add or effect the movement speed of your mount, this will not even help rogues because a smart TR will still use the profound scoundrels set because of the stealth and damage bonus,
I'm not sure if you've had a chance to look at the new stat allocations, but there should be no lifesteal or armor pen on the DC gear in these sets. They do in fact have recovery, crit, and power, I believe. Also, these sets feature a great deal more regen for all classes than previous sets. I'm hopeful that you'll see some improvement when you check them out.
You mention the really high Tenacity numbers, I notice that the update didn't fix these values - they are way too high and will come down pretty significantly in the next update.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited April 2014
In my humble opinion, I consider that if these Black Ice sets are supposed to be the end game gear, they should be an upgrade to the t2 gear, if we check those t2 sets they have offensive and defensive stats i.e for the GWF Avatar of War as offensive and Titan as defensive, in this case we have corrupt and purified which is almost the same but if we could keep the same bonus stats for this sets but higher we wouldn't have to change our feats or stats, this would be an improvement to our playstyle plus another reason to get them.
I think the movement isn't appropriate for the black ice gear. Also I think you should check out the amount of Hit Points, it does not seem attractive.
Also I think you should check out the amount of Hit Points, it does not seem attractive.
Yes - we had some scaling issues on stats in this set that weren't caught in the update. Hit Points should be multiplied by 4. This should be in the next update, I think.
Comments
Please keep in mind that we're mainly chosing a set for the set bonus, and, to a lesser extent, for the stats, but as long as the stats aren't completely absurd, and have some power/crit/def we'll mainly look at the bonus. I'd really like some more options for my cleric and getting rid of the non-choice high vizier set for my CW. Now one question remains, where are we going to use these sets except in pvp since the new pve content is so easy...
But I do not believe the armor displays at the forge have been updated to the new look
remove movement and replace it with power on set with high recovery and remove lifesteel and replace with crtic strike then we might have normal ofensive set
Bug: Hit points value on all Module 3 items are out by a factor of 4, leading to inconsistencies in overall GS from each set.
Currently the value of Hit Points stats on gear is usually 4x the normal value. For example, a Grand slave master's ring of control has 150 power, 150 crit, 150 recovery but Grand Priest's ring of burning light has 600 hit points, 150 defense, 150 deflect.
Gear in Module 3 do not obey this rule, the hit points assigned to items is only a quarter of the value (i.e. 1:1 for exchanged stat).
For example, I believe the black ice accessories should all have the same stat total, but you can see that the belt only has 138 Max hit points instead of 552. Please adjust this for all items with Hit points (multiply by 4) for consistency across sets and modules.
Guild and guide info
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
Depends..it is positioned as a PvP set, of course, but with the right enchants it seems it would be quite OK for solo PvE. For instances you would still want High Prophet for buffing or one of the two "healing" sets. I really hope Module 4 will offer a sensible PvE upgrade, but at least the revised DC set is not as bad now as it seemed at first.
What I would like to know, however, is how the gear stats change depending on whether it is "charged" with lack Ice or not ... what are the actual numbers.
Thanks for the feedback Warpet. One of the things we wanted to try with these sets was to introduce some additional choices for players when looking at their gear. If we replace lifesteal on the Dread Legion set with Recovery, we get the same stat allocation as is on the Fabled Iliyanbruen set, the Avatar of War set, and the Drake set. I was looking to introduce some variety for gearing, but I really appreciate your thoughts on the black ice sets.
Great catch - this will be addressed in the next build. Thanks!
The real issue here is that we are required to use these sets to advance in the campaign. Thus they should be a step above what we use now. As a CW with High Vizer, I must totally rearange my stat rolls and accessories and enchants in order to balance out for the lack of recovery. Not unlike what Warpet is describing about the sets for GWF.
problem of new black ice sets is movement can u at least replace it with power or crtic strike where we got power all ready, purified sets for example looks good but currupted are ruined with movement
im sory for miss understanding i do not want u to replace life steel on dread set i when i said old sets i meaned old black ice sets who had power+crtic+lifesteel
Movement is a stat that all classes have on these sets, so I'm interested to see how people feel about having it. I am looking at this thread every day and will be considering all the feedback we gather through the whole Preview period.
I was keen for these sets to not simply be High Vizier + higher stats, or Dread Legion + higher stats, but a set that was pretty different and interesting for classes. I would think that with any new set there would be some amount of rearranging and rebalancing enchants, but I get the feeling you think this set requires too much of that? The fact the set is required to some degree in the new content is an excellent one - it's one of the reasons that this thread is extremely valuable, and your feedback is much appreciated.
Edit: maybe its empowerment is the clue. But its set bonus still bad, even boring, for PVE
Well currently the set bonuses are plainly bad. A small damage increase for the CW or the cleric? when we have currently +30% damage set bonuses, for the whole party (high prophet or high vizier). Now, I understand that you don't want to make such sets again, but something really different, not being a small damage done to a random foe or a weird stat bonus, would be appreciated. What about something like "encounters add one stack of chill to foes you hit with an encounter spell" for a wizard? I don't really have any giood ideas for clerics but currently, I don't like any of the current set bonuses and feel like the old high vizier and High prophet sets are going to get another 3 months of extra life waiting for something not even better but interesting.
I am sure it will be the same (just different stats) for each class in the game.
I don't agree. I'd drop recovery to 0 if i could get free arpen or crit instead. Just to prove the point that more varied stats allocation may indeed be interesting for different players with a different playstyle. Not everyone plays a sing bot.
I am a 17.5 K gs, 9K power, HV, pointy hat wearing CW and am no sing bot. Quite the contrary.
But we all can't be GOD....but are entitled to our opinions.
for example i did some calculations on black ice gear ,purified graves can give 1401 to gs while currupted graves will give 996,purified helm can give 1401 gs while currupted helm will give 996
rest of gear is balanced on stats but because of this 2 part we will lose 800 gs if we take currupted gear instead of purified and this difference will improve as we power up gear with black ice
Honestly I don't personally think the Stats are everything on a piece of armor. Yes the ones mages use are specific. But its really how you work the set bonus that matters most.
Example.
HV is a defense reduction/defense buff gain. Very useful, not just for the mage but for the party as well.
Magelord is what... a 900 point recovery gain for faster casting...
Magelord sounds good on the surface until you realize recovery soft caps and most mages cannot make use of it no matter what they do because they're already at or close to the soft cap.
(I grabbed the set so I could get a cool title, but that was all its worth really)
If you wanted to give Magelord the same kind of usefulness HV has, then the proper direction would be for some kind of direct recharge speed increase. Anything that relies on any kind of stat that soft caps will be cast aside by mages as they gain nothing by using it or only gain a marginal effect.
So the only things that are useful are direct damage % increases, direct power increases, direct armor/defense reduction, or direct recharge increases. One that would be surprisingly handy given how often mages have to teleport around to position themselves for spells or run from enemies is a Stamina recharge/boost set.
If stats didn't soft cap, then you could use Stat increasing set bonuses, but unfortunately they do.
Other Ideas would be Combat Advantage damage increases (big amongst Renegade spec), Crit damage increases. EDIT: You could even go in the direction of % increases to specific feats. Like increasing the % of Nightmare Wizardry instead.
Those are the things that make a set bonus attractive to mages. Simple stats are not utilized with the exception of power as they soft cap out eventually.
the problem with the new black ice gear, its that the only thing going for it currently is the large amount of tenacity, everything else on it, compared to sets such as profound thaumaturge, or high viziers, black ice gear is pretty useless. also what with your insistance of giving dc's arpen and lifesteal? those stats are useless for devoted clerics, they would be better off with more recovery/crit/power, but back to cw's armors. the reason why high viziers will never be replaced by good players, is that because it makes trash mobs defense become negative it instantly outclasses other gear sets like shadow weaver. pure damage increase for everyone is much more desirable then the extra lifesteal because we dont need more healing, we just want to clear the HAMSTER mobs out of the way faster, and for the pvp zone the grim and thaum sets will be better because of the armor set ability 35% Cooldown on tab and a additional 7.5%dmg increase is much more significant in group fights than the current black ice sets, and again going to reference clerics here, currently with healing depression, even with profound tenacity gear they are extremely squishy. and good pvp clerics do not even use the profound set becuase it has become so useless, they use miracle healers and stack hp so their healing ability are actually viable, because without this set 1 cleric and lets say a cw will die to a single trickster rogue, or a great weapon fighter and that should not happen.
so please try to make these sets useful, lifesteal is extremely unimportant in pvp, and in pve with endless consumption 1-1.2k lifesteal is enough, i can already 3 man castle never with 3 cws running 1-1.2k lifesteal high viziers and using endless consumption, because the proc rate of endless consumption is insane and if it applies, it applies to all hits, for example, a crit opressive force, hits about 20 creatures, the end exploision can crit up to 35k on each creature with perfect vorpal (which we all use in my group) the end heal from that explosion ive seen go up to and can go past 150k. yes healing for 150k is useless, but its nearly a full heal with each encounter use.
Also lifesteal in comparison to regeneration (even with healing depression) regeneration is 3x more effective than a person using alot of lifesteal (with endless consumption)
finally, movement speed? no one needs movements speed, consider this, if you are in a open pvp area, most of the time you will be on your mount, movement speed on your character DOES NOT currently add or effect the movement speed of your mount, this will not even help rogues because a smart TR will still use the profound scoundrels set because of the stealth and damage bonus,
You mention the really high Tenacity numbers, I notice that the update didn't fix these values - they are way too high and will come down pretty significantly in the next update.
Yes - we had some scaling issues on stats in this set that weren't caught in the update. Hit Points should be multiplied by 4. This should be in the next update, I think.