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Official Feedback Thread: Black Ice Gear

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    orlicelorlicel Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Feedback: Guardian Fighter's and Devoted Cleric's Black Ice gear is not worth it:

    GF set: I really don't understand why didn't you give any offense stat at GF set. Is is so easy for GF overstack defense and this set has so many defense. Everybody will be happy for power or crit or armor penetration = stats which really contribute to GF.

    DC set: Life Steal again. Most of DCs play support/heal for PvE and for PvP, too. So LS is nearly worthless for them. I use healing and buffing skills in PvE and PvP (as DC supposted to do) and attacking is not my priority, so why LS which is based on dealing as many damage as I can? Also set bonus is bad. As DC I prefer set bonuses which can contribute to my fellow players (High Prophet, Miracle Healer,...). This one isn't.


    EDIT: LS without Armor Penetration is nothing, give us some more AP and finally fix that AP doesn't work with many DC's damaging skills either way LS for DC sucks even more.
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    warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    orlicel wrote: »
    Feedback: Guardian Fighter's and Devoted Cleric's Black Ice gear is not worth it:

    GF set: I really don't understand why didn't you give any offense stat at GF set. Is is so easy for GF overstack defense and this set has so many defense. Everybody will be happy for power or crit or armor penetration = stats which really contribute to GF.



    DC set: Life Steal again. Most of DCs play support/heal for PvE and for PvP, too. So LS is nearly worthless for them. I use healing and buffing skills in PvE and PvP (as DC supposted to do) and attacking is not my priority, so why LS which is based on dealing as many damage as I can? Also set bonus is bad. As DC I prefer set bonuses which can contribute to my fellow players (High Prophet, Miracle Healer,...). This one isn't.

    they did not give even power on gf set...this then another fail set
    no recovery on dc to? i think in all corupted sets at all classes they need to replace lifesteel with recovery while purified gear can keep lifesteel and gf need curupted gear to be changed to more ofensive
    while curent version can stay as purified gear only
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    rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Tr set sucks as well. No one will give up to the stealth bonus and deflect
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    adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    cooljinx wrote: »
    I see a catch 22 situation here: you need black ice gear to do the new map content (whether pve or pvp)

    Eh, no.

    Some of the PvE enemies might be subject to tweaking, but so far I have not seen anything that a decently geared character who knows how to play his class should have problems handling.

    Sure, the content is tougher than Sharandar and Dread ring, but that is as it should be. I admit that it may be too hard for a brand new lvl 60 who is barely above 10K GS and perhaps with limited experience (like, someone who leveled a new class from 1 to 60 in less than a week), but I think a typical "high-GS" player should not have any problems. Basically, if Sharandar and Dread ring feels like a cakewalk, the new content should provide an appropriate challenge.

    What I have seen so far I consider of a suitably difficulty level above Sharandar and Dread ring.
    Hoping for improvements...
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    niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    adinosii wrote: »
    Eh, no.

    Some of the PvE enemies might be subject to tweaking, but so far I have not seen anything that a decently geared character who knows how to play his class should have problems handling.

    Sure, the content is tougher than Sharandar and Dread ring, but that is as it should be. I admit that it may be too hard for a brand new lvl 60 who is barely above 10K GS and perhaps with limited experience (like, someone who leveled a new class from 1 to 60 in less than a week), but I think a typical "high-GS" player should not have any problems. Basically, if Sharandar and Dread ring feels like a cakewalk, the new content should provide an appropriate challenge.

    What I have seen so far I consider of a suitably difficulty level above Sharandar and Dread ring.


    Agree completely. However, I could see that the epic dungeon may have a need for this gear to avoid or dish out black ice damage.
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    mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited March 2014

    DC set
    Why didn't you give us, clerics, armor penetration? Life Steal is an amazing stat, but lacking an ArP negates usefulness of LS, because you can't life steal much when you don't do damage without armor penetration!!1
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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    loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    There are already plethora of ways to stack Life Steal to the soft cap and I certainly would have liked to see more variance in this Module. The new set can't compete with HV for CWs, GFs are still searching for anything with Power to upgrade their T2 and cutting deflect all around also seems a puzzling move in a PVP expansion. That said: All Black Ice gear instantly becomes BiS for all things PVP anyway, because the stats + Tenacity is just enormous.
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    risendragonrisendragon Member Posts: 88
    edited March 2014
    Uhm yeah. Life Steal is stupid. It's supposed to be pvp gear. If you think about the fact we have tenacity, which ups everyone's damage resistance --> less damage --> less healing from life steal --> healing depression --> 70% less healing from life steal.

    Garbage for pvp.
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    franklin223franklin223 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I am concerned about the direction designers are taking DCs. Our armor sets seem confused.

    These are the facts:
    1) They continue to dump life steal onto our armor sets while not providing DCs with any true dpsing capabilities.
    2) They continue to dump armor penetration on our armor sets while only a couple of our powers benefit from armor penetration (2 abilities work with ArP as I recall).
    3) Only a small handful of DC powers or DC feats are designed towards dpsing; but all of our recent pve armor sets are design explicitly to dps. Meanwhile the righteousness rebranding (read it is now even More difficult to heal ourselves) and healing depression rule set are designed to counter the very same powers and feats that are designed around healing.

    In other words:

    All of our powers and feats tell us to heal, not dps
    Armor sets tell us to dps
    Righteousness and healing depression tell us not to heal

    What are we supposed to be?

    I am quoting theosymphany and vorphied from the righteousness discussion as it talks to the armor sets
    theosymphany:

    Why Lifesteal do not benefit DCs:
    Combat designers seem to have the notion that clerics in a party can afford to play as a DPS class and can lifesteal to overcome righteousness. If you watch any streaming/videos of T2/CN content with DCs you'll see this is rarely the case. The DPS cleric is possibly the most gimped subclass in the whole game. The class as a whole has vastly inferior heroic feats compared to similar feats of other classes, an almost worthless virtuous tree, the weakest capstones of any class and armor penetration does not not contributing to additional damage for ALL but 2 of our encounter powers since beta. In a dungeon we are there as support, either to heal, or to mitigate/debuff. If they want DPS the party would have recruited another DPS class.

    Getting good mileage from lifesteal is directly dependent on high DPS output. For the DC we have slow, single target at wills, zero inherent ArP and a choice between selfish DPS encounters/dailys versus party support tools which do little or no damage. The majority of party DCs will be using Astral shield and 2 of sunburst/Forgemasters/Healing Word/Divine Glow, none of which do appreciable damage especially when you consider their cooldowns. A further restriction is the need to build and spend divinity to power our encounters. No matter how high our power or weapon damage there are already inherent handicaps to our DPS output. Furthermore, when we are actively healing and supporting our DPSers or dodging for our lives we are not going to be able to stand and DPS and get any appreciable benefit from lifesteal. Therefore the whole concept of DCs benefitting from lifesteal, and somehow generating passive party wide heals while he DPSes, remains a strictly rosy, admirable concept that has long been disassociated from current preferences and performances.

    To have our 2 original PvP sets, Mod 1, 2 and 3 set all set on carrying lifesteal, combined with a lack of developer interaction/feedback with the DC community on why things are the way they are I can only express my disappointment at the state of events in NW. The new black ice enchantment offers the strongest stat total for each slot, yet again carries lifesteal which is a dealbreaker for many DCs. We understand there are many facets of the combat mechanics and design and class balances, but having already been cast to sidelines for PvP, and facing no appreciable incentives or rewards in module 3, the level of interest and devotion to our cause is fast on the wane.

    (I might repost part of this in the gear feedback thread)



    vorphied
    As theo notes, the lack of developer interaction with the DC community is a real issue. It's obvious by now either that they have a very specific vision in mind (one that arguably is not working) or that our feedback is not being heard. Either case constitutes a critical communication error.

    From the continued introduction of unwanted Life Steal equipment, the Righteousness "rework", and the lack of compensation for Healing Depression down to the long overdue fix to Hammer of Fail following its unnecessary nerf, it's clear that something is wrong. Some communication would be welcome, because I have no idea why this class seems to get nothing but shafted.
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    ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I think alot of assumptions are being made about the gear based on base stats, not that I dont disagree but what remains to be seen is 1)The diminishing returns on tenacity - estimating stacking over 4k+ gives about 30%, so not a massive boost to tenacity.

    Ontop of that, nobody really knows the proc rates on the effects... At first I was mad because there is no 2pc set bonus, the stats suck and especially no regen, but all the set bonuses seem to be pretty OP... Also do they have an ICD on the proc or a flat proc rate? There is alot of builds I can theorycraft atm based on different %s and ICDs they build in.


    Overall FEEDBACK:
    I am disappointed with the stats on the gear. I am EXTRA disapointed that the only difference between the Corrupt and Purified gear is the set bonus. This seems pretty lame to me and I wish there were more choices. GFs could use some offensive stats, GWFs could use a little more than just low defense on their set.... DCs and lifesteal? Really?

    SUGGESTION:
    I would honestly like to see the set bonus tweaked to a 2 pc set bonus that scales based on the # of armor you are wearing. For instance the Purified Gear offers a 800 point shield that heals you for 600 if not broken every 3 seconds. Change this to a "scaling set bonus: 2pc - shield for 400, heals for 300 if not broken. 3pc: shield for 600, heals for 500. 4pc: Shield for 800, heals for 600.

    As it is currently, nobody can equip any of the gear until you have all four pieces. There is no 2 pc set bonus and the stats suck so hard... It honestly gives ZERO customization options and I know ALOT of people who hate that within a month all the top end players will more than likely be running the exact same gear/builds once more information is known about which set is BIS - if any of them are....

    SUGGESTION (2):
    Create different STATS on the offensive and defensive gear. The Corrupt Set should have more offensive stats, the purified set - more defensive ALONG with the set bonus difference AND with the scaling set bonus difference, this allows players to REALLY customize their gear. Maybe people will do 2pc Profound and 2pc Purified, Maybe they will do 2pc Purified 2pc Corrupt, who knows... This gives more customization to the gear and ALSO lets players equip gear without having to farm ALL of it....

    BUG:
    BOTH weapon set bonuses are labeled incorrectly as "4piece" instead of "2 piece"

    The Purified gear has no "black ice enchant" slot... Only 2 pieces of the corrupt have those enchant slots, given that there is a purified enchant, that requires that slot, Im guessing this is a bug...
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    warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ayroux wrote: »
    I think alot of assumptions are being made about the gear based on base stats, not that I dont disagree but what remains to be seen is 1)The diminishing returns on tenacity - estimating stacking over 4k+ gives about 30%, so not a massive boost to tenacity.

    Ontop of that, nobody really knows the proc rates on the effects... At first I was mad because there is no 2pc set bonus, the stats suck and especially no regen, but all the set bonuses seem to be pretty OP... Also do they have an ICD on the proc or a flat proc rate? There is alot of builds I can theorycraft atm based on different %s and ICDs they build in.


    Overall FEEDBACK:
    I am disappointed with the stats on the gear. I am EXTRA disapointed that the only difference between the Corrupt and Purified gear is the set bonus. This seems pretty lame to me and I wish there were more choices. GFs could use some offensive stats, GWFs could use a little more than just low defense on their set.... DCs and lifesteal? Really?

    SUGGESTION:
    I would honestly like to see the set bonus tweaked to a 2 pc set bonus that scales based on the # of armor you are wearing. For instance the Purified Gear offers a 800 point shield that heals you for 600 if not broken every 3 seconds. Change this to a "scaling set bonus: 2pc - shield for 400, heals for 300 if not broken. 3pc: shield for 600, heals for 500. 4pc: Shield for 800, heals for 600.

    As it is currently, nobody can equip any of the gear until you have all four pieces. There is no 2 pc set bonus and the stats suck so hard... It honestly gives ZERO customization options and I know ALOT of people who hate that within a month all the top end players will more than likely be running the exact same gear/builds once more information is known about which set is BIS - if any of them are....

    SUGGESTION (2):
    Create different STATS on the offensive and defensive gear. The Corrupt Set should have more offensive stats, the purified set - more defensive ALONG with the set bonus difference AND with the scaling set bonus difference, this allows players to REALLY customize their gear. Maybe people will do 2pc Profound and 2pc Purified, Maybe they will do 2pc Purified 2pc Corrupt, who knows... This gives more customization to the gear and ALSO lets players equip gear without having to farm ALL of it....

    BUG:
    BOTH weapon set bonuses are labeled incorrectly as "4piece" instead of "2 piece"

    The Purified gear has no "black ice enchant" slot... Only 2 pieces of the corrupt have those enchant slots, given that there is a purified enchant, that requires that slot, Im guessing this is a bug...

    no recovery on ofensive gwf set is lame to life steel sould be on purified gear only
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    mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ayroux wrote: »
    Overall FEEDBACK:
    I am disappointed with the stats on the gear. I am EXTRA disapointed that the only difference between the Corrupt and Purified gear is the set bonus. This seems pretty lame to me and I wish there were more choices. GFs could use some offensive stats, GWFs could use a little more than just low defense on their set.... DCs and lifesteal? Really?

    Yeap, they seem one defensive and one offensive (based on 4pc bonus), but the stats are completely the same.

    Pls, remake stats on Corrupted and Purified gear to match their offensive and defensive bonuses.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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    orangefireeorangefiree Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    zippich wrote: »
    Empowerement decreases only in combat.

    Oh, ok. In that case it's not so bad then. It also looks like I can feed black ice into it to extend the duration rather then going a couple days with my gear upgrading. If I'm correct then this stuff looks pretty nice.
    Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
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    ontheriverontheriver Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developer Posts: 71 Cryptic Developer
    edited March 2014
    Thanks for all the feedback so far - please note that the stat allocations on these items are incorrect on this build. The Purified and Corrupt sets *should* have different stats as well as a different set bonus: the purified set should have a more defensive focus and the corrupted a more offensive focus.

    This will be rectified in the next build, and I'll be going through the specific feedback on a per-class basis to see if I can incorporate any changes into the actual allocations.
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    ontheriverontheriver Member, NW_CrypticDev, Cryptic Developer Posts: 71 Cryptic Developer
    edited March 2014
    ayroux wrote: »
    BUG:
    BOTH weapon set bonuses are labeled incorrectly as "4piece" instead of "2 piece"

    The Purified gear has no "black ice enchant" slot... Only 2 pieces of the corrupt have those enchant slots, given that there is a purified enchant, that requires that slot, Im guessing this is a bug...
    Thanks! Both these bugs have been fixed, and will be included in the next build.
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    mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ontheriver wrote: »
    The Purified and Corrupt sets *should* have different stats as well as a different set bonus: the purified set should have a more defensive focus and the corrupted a more offensive focus.

    This is very nice to hear, thank you. I'd still be very happy (I mean very very very happy), if you remove Life Steal from DC gear :(
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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    nathyielnathyiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ontheriver wrote: »
    Thanks for all the feedback so far - please note that the stat allocations on these items are incorrect on this build. The Purified and Corrupt sets *should* have different stats as well as a different set bonus: the purified set should have a more defensive focus and the corrupted a more offensive focus.

    This will be rectified in the next build, and I'll be going through the specific feedback on a per-class basis to see if I can incorporate any changes into the actual allocations.

    Can we expect CW set without too much deflection on it ?
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    warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    i hope 2 part weapon set wont be another 450 +to crtic strike at gwf power or recovery would be a lot better also can u pls put some recovery to gwf corupted set to if is not planed to have it
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    nukainotasnukainotas Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I am a TR and i see that there is way too much armor penetration on Corrupted/Purified Black Ice gear.

    All Black Ice items have it, except belt.

    With full Black Ice equimpent + Gemmed Exquisite Shirt and Pants i am almost at the arm pen cap (24% resistance ignored).

    So my two artifacts with armor penetration (Lantern and Thayan book) and my dread ring 250 armor penetration boon (alternative is 3% deflect severity, which is worthless to me) i will be well over the armor penetration cap.

    While this is probably good for PVP, but for PVE it will be a waste of stats.

    I really hope they change something and take away some armor penetration from Corrupted/Purified Black Ice gear, adding more recovery instead.

    Thanks.
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    ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ontheriver wrote: »
    Thanks for all the feedback so far - please note that the stat allocations on these items are incorrect on this build. The Purified and Corrupt sets *should* have different stats as well as a different set bonus: the purified set should have a more defensive focus and the corrupted a more offensive focus.

    This will be rectified in the next build, and I'll be going through the specific feedback on a per-class basis to see if I can incorporate any changes into the actual allocations.

    This is some of the MOST encouraging news I have heard about mod 3. The only thing that could surpass this is an announcement that Companions will be taken off during zone. PVP and that PVE potions will be disabled as well for zone pvp.


    Is there ever going to be a 2pc set bonus on these items? Its really frustrating have 3/4 of the set and not being able to use it yet (issue I have with my Profound set atm, only 4k glory till 4/4 Profound!!!) But I can say it feels like such a LONG haul to get all the items... Not to mention alot of builds currently like stacking TWO 2pc bonuses or mix-n-matching sets... Would be nice to get SOME benefit to 2 pieces...
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    cheesegromitcheesegromit Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mehguy138 wrote: »
    This is very nice to hear, thank you. I'd still be very happy (I mean very very very happy), if you remove Life Steal from DC gear :(
    I'd like a no-lifesteal option for all classes to be honest.

    I didn't get much time to delve into the crafting side but there's arguably the option here to create much more customisation in terms of gear stats by altering the components using during crafting, e.g. including a runestone in the recipe.
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    lucidproph3cylucidproph3cy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Oh, ok. In that case it's not so bad then. It also looks like I can feed black ice into it to extend the duration rather then going a couple days with my gear upgrading. If I'm correct then this stuff looks pretty nice.

    it is if you really think about it. The amount of maintenance you have to do to keep your gear up just to play is a horrible idea. You PVP it decreases, you do dailies is decreases, you do dungeons it decreases. So technically when are you not in battle? I dunno about you but i have a limited time to play and having to farm to keep my gear up definitely decreases what i am allowed to do.
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    beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'd like a no-lifesteal option for all classes to be honest.

    So would Ian.
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    dardovedardove Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    So would Ian.

    Then it is settled, LS on all gear from now on. :P
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    adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    A question:

    For the Black Ice Accessories (cloak, belt, ring) (both corrupted and purified) the description says "4 of set" but there are only 3 items.

    I assumes this means you need 2 identical rings to qualify for the set bonus, correct?
    Hoping for improvements...
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    orangefireeorangefiree Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    it is if you really think about it. The amount of maintenance you have to do to keep your gear up just to play is a horrible idea. You PVP it decreases, you do dailies is decreases, you do dungeons it decreases. So technically when are you not in battle? I dunno about you but i have a limited time to play and having to farm to keep my gear up definitely decreases what i am allowed to do.

    I never said I like it, but it's better than what I first thought which was it decreases while I'm sleeping.
    Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
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    mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'd like a no-lifesteal option for all classes to be honest.

    I didn't get much time to delve into the crafting side but there's arguably the option here to create much more customisation in terms of gear stats by altering the components using during crafting, e.g. including a runestone in the recipe.

    Agreed. I would like to have an option to choose (at least some) stats on the gear I craft.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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    theosymphanytheosymphany Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Thanks Franklin223 for passing on my suggestions regarding DC sets.

    I'm glad the set stats are being reworked and will continue to provide feedback as they change. Right now there is a lot of item redundancy across mod2/mod 3 equipment so I simply have to assume they are placeholder stats.

    Feedback: Extra vendor to test set bonuses
    I wonder if there is a way we can obtain the purified/corrupted gear pieces/sets to test quickly while bypassing the quests? You could add a temporary NPC that can give us extra black ice or the item pieces. The reason I ask this is so that we can test the proc rate, internal cooldown of bonuses and give feedback on those as well.

    As it stands, the module 1 DC set had many issues with the set bonus that wasn't found until months after it went live because of the long time required to acquire it. Likewise the Mod 2 set bonuses could not be tested on preview. I felt that if players were able to give feedback on the set on both the stats and the set bonus it would go much further to designing sets that players felt addressed a need or suited class mechanics. And if there are any bugs or unintended design mechanics they would be spotted much earlier in the process also.
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    nuitrarinuitrari Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Is it possible that the gear will have stats more oriented to the class, I mean life steal on a GF set isn't very good considering the low damage output not to mention the GFs have defense coming out their ears so a set with such high defense values are just wasted stats cause of diminishing returns, stats that we could benefit from as GF are HP, Deflection, Regeneration for defensive, Critical, Armor Penetration, Power for offensive.
    I would go one about the other classes but so far I just checked out the stats on the GF suit not so much on the other classes.
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    pattitto00pattitto00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    New gear got no part set 2/4 in hr, power is good but I got a mix of grand warden and valindta tower with two nonus of 450 crit. So the new gear means lose 900 crit, and no makes me feel that the new gear is better
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