the self policing aspect of the channel has been lauded by many and it is truly a great quality and mark of the maturity level of the members.
*IF* there are mods created they should be no more than an extension of the self policing nature of NW_L_C where a mod has the power but not the authority to do anything, they would need to get the power from the consensus of the members. e.g. a troll gets loose and runs amuck where enough folks say they're using ignore then a mod could ask for a quick vote and with consensus mute/kick the troll.
1 - is mostly wishful thinking. You can't really prevent that from happening, especially in a large community. You have these kind of rules almost everywhere and it doesn't work anywhere. A smart enforcement of rule 3 and a simple addendus like "don't make others angry on purpose" would mostly do the job while being more realistic and clearer.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2014
One of the rules I always put into any game group I run is: All <Game Company> Rules Apply.
It's a very broad rule which basically nails most rules you would set up anyway. That allows you to merely expand on the truly important rules as well as make additional tweaks specific to your group.
-Be respectful
-Keep topics age appropriate
-No discussion of religion, politics or any other belief based topic
-Do not avoid profanity filter
-No discussion of exploits or rule violations
-No advertising or solicitation
One of the rules I always put into any game group I run is: All <Game Company> Rules Apply.
It's a very broad rule which basically nails most rules you would set up anyway. That allows you to merely expand on the truly important rules as well as make additional tweaks specific to your group.
-Be respectful
-Keep topics age appropriate
-No discussion of religion, politics or any other belief based topic
-Do not avoid profanity filter
-No discussion of exploits or rule violations
-No advertising or solicitation
Those are certainly good points. When I get a chance, I'll iron things out a bit more. Thanks!
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
One of the rules I always put into any game group I run is: All <Game Company> Rules Apply.
So using this as a rule for the legit channel we wouldn't be able to discuss other mmo's , stuff like the rng result tables that J0shi82 put together or any other things that would be found as being potentially controversial on the official forums?
0
dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm assuming he is referring to the terms of service for the games, and not the forum rules.
I hope so ....
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited February 2014
Indeed... I will spell things out as clearly as I can, but I also want to keep the amount of regulation in-channel to a minimum.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2014
Like every other MMO I have played the forum rules and regulations are separate from the in game rules.
The Terms of Service and EULA are the rules within the game. The forum rules are an expansion from those rules specific to the forums.
You are free to discuss other MMO's in the game. If you weren't...well...then it would not matter if you were in Legit Channel or not because within the game the rules always apply.
It doesn't matter where you are within the game because you could be with a group of your best friends but that doesn't mean they can't or won't report you for violating the rules and I promise you that thinking your friend wouldn't report you is not going to be an adequate excuse.
I always put it in there for redundancy so people know they take credit for their own actions.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2014
If you couldn't discuss other MMOs in game chat, you'd have grounds to ban everyone who started in with the "X was the first MMO" schtick. Which would be funny, but also really harsh.
One of the rules I always put into any game group I run is: All <Game Company> Rules Apply.
It's a very broad rule which basically nails most rules you would set up anyway. That allows you to merely expand on the truly important rules as well as make additional tweaks specific to your group.
-Be respectful
-Keep topics age appropriate
-No discussion of religion, politics or any other belief based topic
-Do not avoid profanity filter
-No discussion of exploits or rule violations
-No advertising or solicitation
With all due respect, there's no such thing as not discussing exploits in chat in the ToS. And that's fortunate. Without any reward system for people reporting exploits, don't even imagine people discovering those are going to share them willingly. I'm not sure hoping that detailed exploit reports magically appear from nowhere is really relevant either. Not everyone knows how to report them, not everyone wants to bother doing it (and that's perfectly fine), so I kinda like to know when a new exploit appears to make a report. I often read people on legit talking about newly discovered exploits. They're not really giving details, but at least I know I can dig into it if I feel like helping cryptic to fix what's broken.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
With all due respect, there's no such thing as not discussing exploits in chat in the ToS. And that's fortunate. Without any reward system for people reporting exploits, don't even imagine people discovering those are going to share them willingly. I'm not sure hoping that detailed exploit reports magically appear from nowhere is really relevant either. Not everyone knows how to report them, not everyone wants to bother doing it (and that's perfectly fine), so I kinda like to know when a new exploit appears to make a report. I often read people on legit talking about newly discovered exploits. They're not really giving details, but at least I know I can dig into it if I feel like helping cryptic to fix what's broken.
I have no problem with people warning about or cautioning others to stray away from exploits in the channel - I just don't want people promoting them and giving detailed instructions on how to exploit...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
With all due respect, there's no such thing as not discussing exploits in chat in the ToS. And that's fortunate. Without any reward system for people reporting exploits, don't even imagine people discovering those are going to share them willingly. I'm not sure hoping that detailed exploit reports magically appear from nowhere is really relevant either. Not everyone knows how to report them, not everyone wants to bother doing it (and that's perfectly fine), so I kinda like to know when a new exploit appears to make a report. I often read people on legit talking about newly discovered exploits. They're not really giving details, but at least I know I can dig into it if I feel like helping cryptic to fix what's broken.
considering it is at PWE's sole discretion as to what is and is not considered an exploit as well as what is and isn't appropriate in their games AND they can ban your game account with or without cause, i would suggest that people don't discuss exploits unless you are reporting them. and that is part of the ToS. if you're in-game, in zone chat and telling everyone how to exploit xyz and you get reported or if a GM see you, what makes you think just because the ToS doesn't specifically say "you can't talk about exploits in chat" that you can't get banned?
besides, the entire point of the legit community is to not be involved in exploiting and cheating. if you hear about an exploit, it should never be from within the channel. if that's happening, that's a problem.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2014
Giving detailed instructions on how to exploit to other players is a serious violation.
You are to report exploits to PWE directly and privately. Detailing how to exploit is no different than exploiting in and of itself in terms of the rules. That is detailed in 15.2 i in the Terms of Service.
About all you can do is say something can be exploited. Any more detail goes into a gray area where you could be reprimanded.
And before this comes up; due to the way forums function, the forums have a zero tolerance policy for discussing exploits.
In any case this is getting quite a bit off topic. If you would like we can remove all of the explanation of in game rules to their own thread Bioshrike?
besides, the entire point of the legit community is to not be involved in exploiting and cheating. if you hear about an exploit, it should never be from within the channel. if that's happening, that's a problem.
I don't really see how a comment like, "grumble, now tons of people are doing exploit runs of dungeon X" goes against the spirit of the channel.
Hearing about something is not the same as getting full explicit instructions of how to do it.
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited March 2014
Hi,
I i agree with the need for rules of conduct but perhaps there is need for practical guidelines or "tips" more urgently.
In example:
1. When lfg don't post spam rapidly, many don't have zone/lfg/trade on the same tab - the chat doesn't scroll anywhere.
2. No need to post "15k gs + stone + exp + super perfect vorpal", - imo as much as stating gs is helpful it creates more problems than its worth, just class, where you would like to go (t1,t2,t2+, mc...) and if you going there the first time and perhaps if need DD items. That will give enough info for the party leader and prevent GS "wars".
3. Must have at least one TR in group !
It think it will help and more practical than general rules. And if possible to add some sort of automatic post each time when person loges to chat ( char login - when the chat is still clear ) - "for channel guidelines and rules please visit http://......".
I saw message of the day and other options in custom channel options but no idea if it is possible.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
I i agree with the need for rules of conduct but perhaps there is need for practical guidelines or "tips" more urgently.
In example:
1. When lfg don't post spam rapidly, many don't have zone/lfg/trade on the same tab - the chat doesn't scroll anywhere.
2. No need to post "15k gs + stone + exp + super perfect vorpal", - imo as much as stating gs is helpful it creates more problems than its worth, just class, where you would like to go (t1,t2,t2+, mc...) and if you going there the first time and perhaps if need DD items. That will give enough info for the party leader and prevent GS "wars".
3. Must have at least one TR in group !
It think it will help and more practical than general rules. And if possible to add some sort of automatic post each time when person loges to chat ( char login - when the chat is still clear ) - "for channel guidelines and rules please visit http://......".
I saw message of the day and other options in custom channel options but no idea if it is possible.
Thanks for the feedback! I did update the MotD to point to the post with the proposed rules. Other than my manually making a change to the MotD, which makes it pop up for everybody, I think it only shows up upon login or when the new day rolls around. For the time being, moderation in the channel will be very light - I do not want to get in the way of people being able to have a good time while in it and so on...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
0
pitirre34prMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I i agree with the need for rules of conduct but perhaps there is need for practical guidelines or "tips" more urgently.
In example:
1. When lfg don't post spam rapidly, many don't have zone/lfg/trade on the same tab - the chat doesn't scroll anywhere.
2. No need to post "15k gs + stone + exp + super perfect vorpal", - imo as much as stating gs is helpful it creates more problems than its worth, just class, where you would like to go (t1,t2,t2+, mc...) and if you going there the first time and perhaps if need DD items. That will give enough info for the party leader and prevent GS "wars".
3. Must have at least one TR in group !
It think it will help and more practical than general rules. And if possible to add some sort of automatic post each time when person loges to chat ( char login - when the chat is still clear ) - "for channel guidelines and rules please visit http://......".
I saw message of the day and other options in custom channel options but no idea if it is possible.
That part is one of the MAIN reasons i join the channel...im not looking for a job, so i dont have to give a resume. Also like the idea of first time and all that, its at least what i do and seen way too many others do.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
That part is one of the MAIN reasons i join the channel...im not looking for a job, so i dont have to give a resume. Also like the idea of first time and all that, its at least what i do and seen way too many others do.
I definitely agree with you. Please keep in mind, however, that as the channel has grown, so has the variety of people that use it. As such, there are some who haven't broken out of the PE zone/LFG habit of posting your "resume" as you say. I don't really fault them, and instead try to form teams simply by who is interested or in need of a team.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Hello, I'm a pretty fresh 60 and have quickly learned that queueing doesn't seem to get you in a group, as i've spent easilt 6 hours a day trying to run ONE dungeon. So i thought I'd try this channel out.
Quick question though when I try to use this /bind numpad7 "startchatwith /c nw_legit_community
it tells me unknown command, am I doing something wrong?
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited March 2014
In order to join the channel type /channel_join nw_legit_community .
The number key bind is only and easy way to quickly change the channel you are typing in.
*Also note the space between the last letter and the close-quote.
Good luck!
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Also, as ambisinisterr pointed out, you only need to use the bind to switch to the channel. Once you're already in it, you can just hit enter, type, and hit enter again, to chat in the channel.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
they behave a bit differently so try what you like best.
And btw, bioshrike, except of looking into channel options and diving inside it's details i couldn't find a way to see the message of the day, i hope there is a way, because i feel like the work on the rules will be for nothing if not many sees it.
It never automatically appears.
Is there an implicit "greed only" rule when getting part of a DP created through the NW_Legit channel?
No. That is something to be worked out among the specific members of that team. Many people do run greed-only, though, but it's not an official part of the channel in any way.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
0
pitirre34prMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
In all honesty should be official, because, gives everyone a fair chance at drops, I've being in runs where nothing for my class(w/e class im using any given day) drops, kinda sad, also a way to avoid ninjas...still might happen, its just my opinion. But at the same time, say something that X player really need, it drops, its an upgrade to the player, but the leader wont let him need it, so he greed to avoids problems, and who knows when that its gonna drop again. Then the person that got the item will probably try to sell it to that X player or AH the item for quite a lot. In the end its all on what the group have agreed on, before even getting on the queue or when inside.
Comments
*IF* there are mods created they should be no more than an extension of the self policing nature of NW_L_C where a mod has the power but not the authority to do anything, they would need to get the power from the consensus of the members. e.g. a troll gets loose and runs amuck where enough folks say they're using ignore then a mod could ask for a quick vote and with consensus mute/kick the troll.
quick thought, quick reply
It's a very broad rule which basically nails most rules you would set up anyway. That allows you to merely expand on the truly important rules as well as make additional tweaks specific to your group.
-Be respectful
-Keep topics age appropriate
-No discussion of religion, politics or any other belief based topic
-Do not avoid profanity filter
-No discussion of exploits or rule violations
-No advertising or solicitation
Those are certainly good points. When I get a chance, I'll iron things out a bit more. Thanks!
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Most of the other points aren't a problem but I think a few people might find issue with this:
So using this as a rule for the legit channel we wouldn't be able to discuss other mmo's , stuff like the rng result tables that J0shi82 put together or any other things that would be found as being potentially controversial on the official forums?
I'm assuming he is referring to the terms of service for the games, and not the forum rules.
I hope so ....
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The Terms of Service and EULA are the rules within the game. The forum rules are an expansion from those rules specific to the forums.
You are free to discuss other MMO's in the game. If you weren't...well...then it would not matter if you were in Legit Channel or not because within the game the rules always apply.
It doesn't matter where you are within the game because you could be with a group of your best friends but that doesn't mean they can't or won't report you for violating the rules and I promise you that thinking your friend wouldn't report you is not going to be an adequate excuse.
I always put it in there for redundancy so people know they take credit for their own actions.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
With all due respect, there's no such thing as not discussing exploits in chat in the ToS. And that's fortunate. Without any reward system for people reporting exploits, don't even imagine people discovering those are going to share them willingly. I'm not sure hoping that detailed exploit reports magically appear from nowhere is really relevant either. Not everyone knows how to report them, not everyone wants to bother doing it (and that's perfectly fine), so I kinda like to know when a new exploit appears to make a report. I often read people on legit talking about newly discovered exploits. They're not really giving details, but at least I know I can dig into it if I feel like helping cryptic to fix what's broken.
I have no problem with people warning about or cautioning others to stray away from exploits in the channel - I just don't want people promoting them and giving detailed instructions on how to exploit...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
considering it is at PWE's sole discretion as to what is and is not considered an exploit as well as what is and isn't appropriate in their games AND they can ban your game account with or without cause, i would suggest that people don't discuss exploits unless you are reporting them. and that is part of the ToS. if you're in-game, in zone chat and telling everyone how to exploit xyz and you get reported or if a GM see you, what makes you think just because the ToS doesn't specifically say "you can't talk about exploits in chat" that you can't get banned?
besides, the entire point of the legit community is to not be involved in exploiting and cheating. if you hear about an exploit, it should never be from within the channel. if that's happening, that's a problem.
You are to report exploits to PWE directly and privately. Detailing how to exploit is no different than exploiting in and of itself in terms of the rules. That is detailed in 15.2 i in the Terms of Service.
About all you can do is say something can be exploited. Any more detail goes into a gray area where you could be reprimanded.
And before this comes up; due to the way forums function, the forums have a zero tolerance policy for discussing exploits.
In any case this is getting quite a bit off topic. If you would like we can remove all of the explanation of in game rules to their own thread Bioshrike?
I don't really see how a comment like, "grumble, now tons of people are doing exploit runs of dungeon X" goes against the spirit of the channel.
Hearing about something is not the same as getting full explicit instructions of how to do it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I i agree with the need for rules of conduct but perhaps there is need for practical guidelines or "tips" more urgently.
In example:
1. When lfg don't post spam rapidly, many don't have zone/lfg/trade on the same tab - the chat doesn't scroll anywhere.
2. No need to post "15k gs + stone + exp + super perfect vorpal", - imo as much as stating gs is helpful it creates more problems than its worth, just class, where you would like to go (t1,t2,t2+, mc...) and if you going there the first time and perhaps if need DD items. That will give enough info for the party leader and prevent GS "wars".
3. Must have at least one TR in group !
It think it will help and more practical than general rules. And if possible to add some sort of automatic post each time when person loges to chat ( char login - when the chat is still clear ) - "for channel guidelines and rules please visit http://......".
I saw message of the day and other options in custom channel options but no idea if it is possible.
Thanks for the feedback! I did update the MotD to point to the post with the proposed rules. Other than my manually making a change to the MotD, which makes it pop up for everybody, I think it only shows up upon login or when the new day rolls around. For the time being, moderation in the channel will be very light - I do not want to get in the way of people being able to have a good time while in it and so on...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
That part is one of the MAIN reasons i join the channel...im not looking for a job, so i dont have to give a resume. Also like the idea of first time and all that, its at least what i do and seen way too many others do.
I definitely agree with you. Please keep in mind, however, that as the channel has grown, so has the variety of people that use it. As such, there are some who haven't broken out of the PE zone/LFG habit of posting your "resume" as you say. I don't really fault them, and instead try to form teams simply by who is interested or in need of a team.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Quick question though when I try to use this /bind numpad7 "startchatwith /c nw_legit_community
it tells me unknown command, am I doing something wrong?
The number key bind is only and easy way to quickly change the channel you are typing in.
Happy delving!
/bind numpad7 "startchatwith /c nw_legit_community "
*Also note the space between the last letter and the close-quote.
Good luck!
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Happy to help!
Also, as ambisinisterr pointed out, you only need to use the bind to switch to the channel. Once you're already in it, you can just hit enter, type, and hit enter again, to chat in the channel.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
/bind numpad1 channel_setcurrent nw_legit_community
they behave a bit differently so try what you like best.
And btw, bioshrike, except of looking into channel options and diving inside it's details i couldn't find a way to see the message of the day, i hope there is a way, because i feel like the work on the rules will be for nothing if not many sees it.
It never automatically appears.
Unless someone says something, it is generally expected to run "greed all" nowadays in the legit channel.
No. That is something to be worked out among the specific members of that team. Many people do run greed-only, though, but it's not an official part of the channel in any way.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums