bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited August 2014
pitirre34pr, I hear your and other people's concerns. I am currently taking applications for more moderators to get better and more apparent coverage. As for the channel rules, they are earlier in this thread.
Here's a tinyurl for the rules post, (it's also in the channel MotD, but it's un-obvious, unfortunately): http://tinyurl.com/k3zw5df
I've also added the link to my signature - hopefully they'll get more exposure that way.
Thanks for your feedback!
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
pitirre34pr, I hear your and other people's concerns. I am currently taking applications for more moderators to get better and more apparent coverage. As for the channel rules, they are earlier in this thread.
Here's a tinyurl for the rules post, (it's also in the channel MotD, but it's un-obvious, unfortunately): http://tinyurl.com/k3zw5df
I've also added the link to my signature - hopefully they'll get more exposure that way.
Thanks for your feedback!
There's a MotD? I don't think I've ever seen that.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
There's a MotD? I don't think I've ever seen that.
I don't know if it's a bug or what, but the only time people have reported actually seeing it in channel is when I go in and make some change, then save it... I don't know how else someone is supposed to see it, though.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2014
You can see it in the channel information but, yeah, it never displays in game.
damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
edited August 2014
Hi fellow Legits!
As Bio is looking for more moderators, i would like to nominate @mickey1p00 and @stretch611 as a couple of people that i think would be good for the job. They are on regularly (almost / as often as i am!) and have been in the channel for quite a while (in the case of Janne, as long as me).
Anyway, many thanks to everyone for all of your contributions to the channel! Your participation, care and support has helped make the channel the success that it is today!
I'd be godawful mod material, given that while I'm around a fair bit and concerned about the way the channel gets sometimes, I'm also occasionally in some pointless argument and also rather heavily disillusioned with the state of the game, but something really does need to be done with all the tasteless sexist/racist/homophobic comments I keep seeing lately.
I mean, I ask people not to make them, but half the time they just argue with me about why I shouldn't be offended they said something offensive. -_- Liberal use of the ignore command is made, but really, it needs to be made clear that that kind of stuff is not OK. It's becoming common enough that I'm really getting uncomfortable with the channel. (And given that my characters are in a personal guild, I don't have a guild to go take refuge in. I should find one, since if this kind of thing keeps up I'm not OK with staying in a channel that keeps turning hostile to minority groups.)
I'm also really, seriously, completely sick of the '4E sucks' edition warring that goes on every single time someone brings up 4E in the channel. Can we stop that too? If I want people bashing 4E... Wait, I don't want that ever. -_- I'm a 4E fan and it gets seriously tiresome whenever it comes up.
Largely inactive, playing Skyforge as Nai Calus.
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rifter1969Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 516Arc User
edited August 2014
Thanks for the info everyone.
I would like to learn the ins and outs of the dungeons.
I've been looking on the wiki... and though tis good for a number of things... there are a number of pages that are just stubs or don't exist at all.
But I'm looking forward to it.
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
...but something really does need to be done with all the tasteless sexist/racist/homophobic comments I keep seeing lately.
...Liberal use of the ignore command is made, but really, it needs to be made clear that that kind of stuff is not OK. It's becoming common enough that I'm really getting uncomfortable with the channel.
I agree Veldrin. I think i've been on a number of times when this has happened and you have also been on. You and I (on one account or another) have brought up that such comments aren't appropriate and sometimes it may lead to laying 'blame' on us for being offended by it.
However, as Bio has been talking about, he has enslaved some new mods which will help. (All 'hail' Janne, queen of thieves and eternal slave to the Legits!)
I don't believe it is acceptable or good that you don't feel comfortable in the channel all the time due to the actions of others. I also don't believe anyone in the channel should really be needing to use the /ignore function at all with other members, yet i can certainly see how little option has been left in a number of cases and i'm confident that our Legit ignore list is pretty similar at this stage.
I think that with more mods being available, not even necessarily using their authority but just being visible, will be a good step in limiting the frequency of these undesirable occurrences and, hopefully, reduce the necessity to ignore members at all.
So, if this sort of activity does occur again when i'm on you can rest assured that again you won't be alone in pointing out what should be obvious.
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited August 2014
I am pleased to announce that to-date, there are more than 3300 members in NW_Legit_Community. I'm also happy to say that we've added a few more moderators to the channel. If you've submitted an application to me and I haven't gotten back to you, I apologize as I've been a little backlogged; I am still reviewing them.
Now that we've gotten the pleasantries out of the way, I want to go over a few things:
1. Everyone in the channel is presumed innocent until proven guilty. If you feel that you've been wronged by someone in the channel, and it's something that is a violation to the overall game's rules, then please submit a GM ticket. If the offense wasn't technically against PWE's/Cryptic's rules, but violates the spirit of what NW_Legit_Community stands for, we are going to need some sort of proof to take action. The best way to back your statement up is to provide a copy-paste of the supporting chat, and send it to one of the channel moderators for review. DO NOT NAME AND SHAME IN-CHANNEL!
2. I want the channel to remain free and open as much as possible, but if a few people try to dominate the channel with negative or hateful conversation, (regardless of the actual topic being discussed), you will be asked to stop. This includes Pay to Win/P2W conversations.
3. There is no official loot rule for NW_Legit_Community; Each team should discuss how its members are going to roll for drops. As mentioned in #1 above, if someone from the channel violates an agreed upon loot rule, it is up to the accuser to supply evidence that the accused both agreed to said loot rule and that they broke it.
4. I have done fairly extensive interviews for all channel moderators. Anyone posing as a moderator, who isn't actually one, will be banned from the channel permanently.
Again, thank you to all those who contribute in a positive way, and make NW_Legit_Community a great channel to be a part of!
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Again, thank you to all those who contribute in a positive way, and make NW_Legit_Community a great channel to be a part of!
As a member of the channel pretty near since bioshrike announced it in this forum, I can only give thank to ALL the community, including those who have behaved like a troll because they have served to set limits on behavior and discover interesting people while they reacted to his despicable behavior.
Thank you!
--
I don't mind on control.
I don't main on damage.
I only mind on FUN.
I have reached higher state of FUNNESS!
Then you only need press 7 on the numpad, type what you want to say, then press enter, to type into NW_Legit_Community.
Happy hunting!
But 7 is the number for your mount?
I joined this channel some time ago and I find that it seems, in part, to be a front for AD exploiters. I have lurked and observed chat where exploits have been openly discussed, as well as proceeds from the exploits and how to launder profits of 100 million AD through the Auction House.
It appears that some members are no more "Legitimate" Players than Mafia Dons are now "Legitimate" Businessmen. Think about it; it's a good place to hide, after all.
I also notice that, although they claim to party with anyone and to be a better option than Looking For Group, they charge a "fee" to take less experienced level 60 players and tend only to farm Epic dungeons. The "fee" is not like a TR having to pay enchants to get into a dungeon, but less experienced level 60 players have to allow all the gear that drops for their character to be subjected to a GREED roll, even if they really actually need the gear. GREED on everything, including Enchants and Green Gear, is the Legit Channel way, on the grounds that less experienced level 60s are being "carried". This seems to be the antithesis of everything AD&D stands for. They certainly did not carry me.
I have also observed Trolls giving out completely invented disinformation about patch notes and game changes, thus illegitimately misinforming other members and completely wasting their time when they seek clarification.
I have also observed members being threatened with being reported, muted or banned just because other members have turned off their Profanity filter. The Profanity filter is there if you do not like Profanity, so why moan if you see things like ~@!%*# in the Chat window? I have seen far, far worse in PvP - sometimes from my own party! And if you turn the filter off, again, why moan if you see Profanity?
I have been on a few runs with a Legit Channel party and it was a lot of fun. I did not mind having to GREED on drops I could use as I was already pretty well-geared anyway, although I think that this convention is childish, immature, greedy and selfish. But it seems impossible to get a party together with them if you have a new character.
I have also had a lot of fun runs with LFG and only a few times have I experienced problems. Yesterday, I did a normal, Main Quest Cloak Tower run with my level 15 Warlock and only two other members at level 16 with gear scores of about 325. It worked out really well, although I got the same gear from the chest as the last run. Hopefully that chest will be fixed if I do it a third time?
I am extremely disappointed with the Legit Channel.
I joined this channel some time ago and I find that it seems, in part, to be a front for AD exploiters. I have lurked and observed chat where exploits have been openly discussed, as well as proceeds from the exploits and how to launder profits of 100 million AD through the Auction House.
It appears that some members are no more "Legitimate" Players than Mafia Dons are now "Legitimate" Businessmen. Think about it; it's a good place to hide, after all.
I also notice that, although they claim to party with anyone and to be a better option than Looking For Group, they charge a "fee" to take less experienced level 60 players and tend only to farm Epic dungeons. The "fee" is not like a TR having to pay enchants to get into a dungeon, but less experienced level 60 players have to allow all the gear that drops for their character to be subjected to a GREED roll, even if they really actually need the gear. GREED on everything, including Enchants and Green Gear, is the Legit Channel way, on the grounds that less experienced level 60s are being "carried". This seems to be the antithesis of everything AD&D stands for. They certainly did not carry me.
I have also observed Trolls giving out completely invented disinformation about patch notes and game changes, thus illegitimately misinforming other members and completely wasting their time when they seek clarification.
I have also observed members being threatened with being reported, muted or banned just because other members have turned off their Profanity filter. The Profanity filter is there if you do not like Profanity, so why moan if you see things like ~@!%*# in the Chat window? I have seen far, far worse in PvP - sometimes from my own party! And if you turn the filter off, again, why moan if you see Profanity?
I have been on a few runs with a Legit Channel party and it was a lot of fun. I did not mind having to GREED on drops I could use as I was already pretty well-geared anyway, although I think that this convention is childish, immature, greedy and selfish. But it seems impossible to get a party together with them if you have a new character.
I have also had a lot of fun runs with LFG and only a few times have I experienced problems. Yesterday, I did a normal, Main Quest Cloak Tower run with my level 15 Warlock and only two other members at level 16 with gear scores of about 325. It worked out really well, although I got the same gear from the chest as the last run. Hopefully that chest will be fixed if I do it a third time?
I am extremely disappointed with the Legit Channel.
~
I've seen you in channel. The time I saw you there you spent an hour insulting everyone else there. There has never been discussion that I've seen where people explain how to launder or exploit only the occassional complaining that the exploits are going on and the expression of frustration about it. You spent an hour trolling the channel that night about greed runs and how we were all disgusting and I really wish I had screenshotted it but I didn't and the channel mods won't remove you without proof of your despicable actions.
I've seen you in channel. The time I saw you there you spent an hour insulting everyone else there. There has never been discussion that I've seen where people explain how to launder or exploit only the occassional complaining that the exploits are going on and the expression of frustration about it. You spent an hour trolling the channel that night about greed runs and how we were all disgusting and I really wish I had screenshotted it but I didn't and the channel mods won't remove you without proof of your despicable actions.
What you claim is completely untrue. You are also one of the more vocal proponents of GREEEED. I wonder why?
Unfortunately for you, I do have a copy of that chat log, as some people claimed I was trolling and someone said they had PMd Bioshrike about it... Oh! Hang on! Who was that? Someone also claimed I was ranting when I was calmly discussing, now who was that, I wonder...?
I was not trolling at all and I was not insulting anyone. I was genuinely concerned about the attitudes of some people on that channel.
A topic of discussion was on-going about whether running straight to the end of a dungeon was not legit and I joined in by asking why this was so. The conversation went on from there to why GREED runs are the Required Legit Way, contrary to what bioshrike says above.
You came into that conversation very near the end and missed most of it.
Expressing a genuine but unpopular opinion is not trolling. But some of the most badly behaved people I have seen outside PvP are hiding in the Legit channel. I have posted in other threads about Greed runs being juvenile and selfish, and I never impose them when I play with less experienced players. I have five level 60 characters, my two Mains having a 15k+ gear score, so I can hardly be considered an inexperienced, under-geared level 60.
But I find it is impossible to get a group from Legit for low level characters, and with a level 60 character you have to agree to a GREED run. I don't care about that with my Mains, but I think it is very unfair to less experienced players.
But that does not matter, as my level 17 Warlock is so heavily geared and enchanted from my main characters, I am "carrying" people from LFG.
You really ought to withdraw your false allegations and insults.
Here are some snippets from that chat log, showing the attitudes of some members:
[NW_LC] M01: I realized the term legit is in a gray area. Is avoiding a group of adds to save time legit, for example?
[NW_LC] M02: Avoiding some is ok.. running through them all is not [NW_LC] ME: Why is running through not Legit?
[NW_LC] M04: The only part that isn't legit is that the mobs reset. [NW_LC] ME: Explain
[NW_LC] M02: Pulling rooms together is considered Legit.. but if yo go past the point where they all turn back to their start point.. thats different [NW_LC] ME: Why?
[NW_LC] M05: It's clearly contrary to design intent; the mobs weren't put there to be ignored.
[NW_LC] M04: Because you're exploiting that the mobs can be reset, instead of following you, as real monsters would.
[NW_LC] M06: running past mobs that reset is exploiting [NW_LC] ME: Why? Has an AD&D Thief never sneaked past monsters in Stealth
[NW_LC] M04: Yes, a rogue could sneak past. But when he got far enough away the monsters would attack the party members, not go back to twiddle their diddles. [NW_LC] ME: But real world animals will stop pursuing after a time - either you are no longer a threat to their territory or they return to their lair. Who are YOU to say it is not WAI and therefore an exploit?
[NW_LC] M02: Its exploiting a flaw in the game(The Mobs Reset).. Its an Exploit [NW_LC] ME: And yet, forcing GREED runs on newer players that actually need the gear IS Legit? Why is that? [NW_LC] M01: Are we not carrying the newer players? [NW_LC] M09: if you don't like this channel you can leave [NW_LC] ME: You have to pass the RNG roll to even get any gear for your class, The NEED or GREED is meant if there is more than ONE of your class in the party. Not a mechanic to stealth steal someone else's gear
[NW_LC] M07: Feel free to leave the channel and run in LFG if you are not happy with the people here. [NW_LC] ME: No. YOU feel free to play as a properly Legit group and stop trying to steal other people's drops by going against the spirit of the NEED or GREED mechanic. Form a GREED channel instead [NW_LC] M11: It's funny, in STO, everyone needs regardless.
[NW_LC] M12: loot mechanic should just be Roll or Pass...end of problem [NW_LC] M09: loot rules are established b4 a run...if you don't like the rules , don't go with that grp [NW_LC] ME: Not true. Last run I was only told after we'd started and I needed on some green gear and enchants.
[NW_LC] M01: I had people 'Need' on an AoW and selling it in AH right now for 800K. [NW_LC] ME: I joined this Legit channel as I thought the childish, juvenile and perverse attitude would be left outside. But, no. It's just as full of people who want to farm gear to salvage or sell for AD as an Exploiters channel [NW_LC] M09: generally speaking....runs in this channel are all greed unless otherwise specified
[NW_LC] M14: is there a mod on to stop xxxxxxx insulting rant?
[NW_LC] ME: I'm just very disappointed that "Legit" is defined by greed runners and exploiters [NW_LC] M05: The loot protocol argument is a tired one; I'm firmly on the side of Need by default but it's a dead issue. [NW_LC] M02: You have been told what we define as Legit.. you can or cannot follow it.. your choice [NW_LC] ME: And yet you force people to choose GREED when they could need, in order for YOU to get a chance of gear you do not need, just so you can sell it. That is against the spirit of the game and the coding.
[NW_LC] M14: stop with the rant. If you don't like the group leave. We didn't hold a gun to your head to be here
[NW_LC] M01: xxxxxxx the last guy I GGed with waited till the last moment to 'Need' on and AoW armor. And he was already wearing one to boot. We had already chose Greed/
[NW_LC] M04: He was a legit? That sucks, I'm sorry.
[NW_LC] M02: GREED means everyone gets a chance at every drop... and thats teamwork.. if you don't want to be part of that team.. then don't. It is your choice. No one is forcing you [NW_LC] M09: greed on all is fairest imo [NW_LC] ME: Greed is simply being GREEDY. So it is being childish, immature and selfish
[NW_LC] M01: Well the devs put it as 'Greed' when it could be called roll. [NW_LC] M09: i think the pt has been made...if looking for need grps, lfg or zone or even guild [NW_LC] M02: No you have just shown yourself tobe greedy and childish and immature with that statement. You obviously are not a PART of the COmmunity so... go back to LFG and put up with the others t [NW_LC] ME: I just think it's very ironic that you have the gall to call yourselves Legit when you are not and are abusing a mechanic in your own favour. Anyway, I'm doing professions, so see you later.
[NW_LC] M09: were we just trolled?
[NW_LC] M01: Perhaps
[NW_LC] M15: likely so
[NW_LC] M14: not sure if we were trolled but I just sent bioshrike a pm about it
[NW_LC] M09: i think that was some horrible trolling [NW_LC] ME: No, I was not trolling at all. I think it's incredibly juvenile and selfish to force Greed on people who might need the gear, just so a TR has the chance to sell DC boots for AD. How selfish is that?
As we can see, many members on the Legit Channel do not allow Exploiting - unless they are Exploiting less experienced players.
~
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited August 2014
refracted0dawn,
As more and more people join the channel, there are going to be a few bad apples. I've enlisted the help of some fantastic people to expand our channel moderation, but some bad players will slip through the cracks. I've also said it several times already - there is no official loot rule for the channel. Many players like to do "Greed only" runs because it gives everybody on the team a fair chance at the boss or other drops. You may consider this a "fee", but many consider it simply a fair shot at all items for working as a team.
As to your point about people giving out bad advice - again, some bad players may sneak onto the channel - that's an unfortunate side effect of it being open to anyone that wants to join. If you observe someone knowingly giving bad or misleading information, (and not just being mistaken), ask if there are any moderators on, and send them or me a copy-paste of the chat excerpt.
Lastly, on the subject of cursing or foul language - I have instructed the moderators that infrequent use of curse words in a lighthearted or casual manner is ok, but only to a degree. If someone comes on the channel and is spouting obscenities way more than is necessary, then they will be warned, then muted or kicked as deemed appropriate. Yes, there is a profanity filter, but we want to maintain a more civil tone within the channel.
Thank you,
Biostem
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
snip
Expressing a genuine but unpopular opinion is not trolling. But some of the most badly behaved people I have seen outside PvP are hiding in the Legit channel.snip
Actually I was there the whole time, I just tried not to say anything till you finally got me angry enough. Now you are doing it again here on the forums with your abusive rhetoric. You insult anyone that doesn't agree with you calling them an exploiter for wanting to do greed runs. It is you that is poorly behaved. It is you that is a problem.
By the way I am who you labeled as M14 for anyone that wants to know.
As more and more people join the channel, there are going to be a few bad apples.
there is no official loot rule for the channel.
As to your point about people giving out bad advice - again, some bad players may sneak onto the channel
Yes, there is a profanity filter, but we want to maintain a more civil tone within the channel.
Thanks for that.
Apart from the few runs I did early on, I have been using your chat channel mostly for information and discussion on tactics etc. So I really think a Legit_LFG channel and a separate Legit_Discussion channel would be a really good thing. I'd certainly join up, but I think I am finished with the other.
One guy recently formed a party with some of us to help us bone up on the new GF, as I have two GF Leadership Mules that I take out occasionally when I fancy a change from my DC Mains or new Warlock and their feats have been reset. THAT is the kind of person the Legit channel needs: helpful and friendly and full of informative insight.
But I am afraid you have been infiltrated by several barrels of bad apples. Recently, I got incredibly annoyed with some idiots as I had my time wasted by seeking clarification as they were saying that the new module had new mechanics that were absolutely untrue. This was not a error, it was a deliberate troll fest to spread alarm and despondency and finally someone posted that they were kidding.
KIDDING? On the Legit channel!?
I lost it for a moment and left the channel in a flurry of insults.
I am afraid I fell for the Troll Ca-Ca. The reason I fell for it so heavily was that up until that point, your channel was astonishingly good and helpful, apart from the Exploiters and greedy, selfish people hiding in there. I never had any reason before to doubt anything posted in there. I do not care about Greed for my two main characters, but it is not something I would impose on newer players and fresh level 60s, because it is just greedy and selfish. Many, many members of your channel only play to farm epic dungeons and will only do a greed run.
Unfortunately, the trolls and self-centred people have destroyed it for me. I am better off with LFG and PvP.
And I NEVER thought I'd ever say that.
~
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited August 2014
Again, I am sorry you had a bad experience. We are taking steps to try and crack down on that. Please keep in mind those steps also include people that "lose it" - even if it's for reasons that seem logical at the time. Extremely angry ranting or venting is unproductive at best, and can ruin other people's experiences at worst. I can appreciate your perspective on the loot rules, which is why I specifically left that for each team to decide on their own. If you join a team, and no one has announced anything, I suggest you pose the question before getting too far in - that way if there's a disagreement, the issue can be nipped in the bud.
My recommendation to you would be to maintain as calm a demeanor as possible, and if someone comes onto the channel with what you interpret or know to be misinformation, calmly and politely call them out on it. Ask if there's a moderator present, (you can check their channel member status by clicking the gear in the upper left of the chat box, choose nw_legit_community from the list of custom channels, click view details, then start typing in someone's handle, without the @ symbol). If their status isn't operator, admin, or higher, then they are just a regular channel member.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
This has been my view as well, me and son hit level 54 and 55 and was told by several geared players that we would run T1 and t2 dungeons, keeping in mind that their would be a greed on all loot to include our classes and a need on all other just by the leader (why even go into a dungeon with these rules?). If you guys are genuinely going to try and clean these foreigner farmers out (both were non native speakers of English, when we got in group with them), i'll definantly join the channel again.
While 'greed all' runs are popular, and their merit and demerit are not the topic, people free to make different groups. The channel rules do not state specifics.
I have never met a group with demands like you wrote and would have left one (if i understand the leader needs part correctly). Perhaps it was some language misunderstanding ?
Also as a general note and as i wrote, anyone free to make groups with whatever rules, as long as everyone agrees, there are split runs and others. And not related to loot but for fun naked runs (removing most equipment after entering to get very very low GS), 5 dc runs, and so on...
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pitirre34prMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2014
I think people are confusing PARTY rules, with CHANNEL rules. You can simply ask the loot rules to the leader or the whole party when it's form, AND BEFORE hitting accept when the queue comes up. You agree, you start the instance, if you don't agree, you can leave before the instance starts.
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
edited August 2014
I'm sorry you feel this way about the channel Refracted0dawn.
I think Bioshrike did sum it up pretty well though with his comments.
I am (i believe!) the GF who partied with you and others to share with you my perspective and experience on the 'new' GF and i really appreciate your kind words. I always enjoy helping others and sharing whatever i can and i hope it was of some benefit to you!
I am also an Operator/mod for the Legit channel and try to take an active interest in this role and the channel so that i, and others, can continue to help and share.
Unfortunately, with the channel open and accessible to everyone and anyone, this means that we will have members who may not act appropriately in the channel. Whether these are actions that are a breach of NWs ToS or the channel's simple, reasonable and modest Code of Conduct does not mean that inappropriate actions are to be tolerated by any means, however there are established facilities in-game for players and channel members to take action if they have an issue with another player.
For example, if the game's ToS is breached, a GM should be contacted and the player reported. This applies to such actions as discussions on how to exploit etc. which are strictly not tolerated in the channel and definitely not permitted anywhere in the game. If a player has an issue with the actions of another member that breaches the channel's Code of Conduct or for any other reason, a channel moderator should be contacted to assist in resolving the issue.
However, with regard to conduct in the channel chat, i must point out that a member who posts in channel a statement such as "Woever started that is a cpomplete &*^%. %^&* %$#. I used to rely on this chat to get genuine information. *^%$ you in the ^%$" is not acting in a mature manner and, regardless of the reason why, is not being courteous or respectful to other members. The frequent use of profanities in such a statement is not necessary and certainly is not what is reasonably acceptable in any social environment that i would feel comfortable participating in and is behaviour that should not find it's way onto the channel.
Although there is a large percentage of dungeon runs that are stipulated as being "Greed" only, as previously mentioned, this is NOT a mandatory part of the channel and each party and its members should agree on loot rules for themselves. Generally, Greed 'runs' are common when players are not able to obtain any loot from the run that would be an upgrade and this is often the reason why Greed 'runs' may be more prevalent.
There is nothing preventing, and a lot encouraging, players creating their own parties and stipulating their own loot rules. Additionally, i have most often found that, with a character that needs gear drops, (from my own experience) all I need to do is let the party know that i would like to Need on some items and ask them if they mind if i Need if the item drops. I have never yet had an issue where other players have not been happy to let me Need when it is a genuine upgrade and i equip the item then and there.
I'm sorry you have had that type of experience in the channel Gomok72 and i must confess to finding the situation rather odd. I hope you will allow me the opportunity to provide you with a more positive perspective and experience of the channel. Whenever i'm on, always feel free to give me a yell and i'll do my best to party with you and go through whatever content you would like and i can guarantee you i will not have a problem with you choosing to Need on items that are actually an upgrade for you that you can equip! So please, if you wouldn't mind giving me a chance, i'd certainly appreciate showing you the positive side of the channel!
But, i can't stress this strongly enough, if anyone ever has any concerns or issues with any other member, always feel free to chat with one of the Operators/ channel mods about it. We do care and we are here to help ensure that everyone enjoys a good experience in the channel.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited August 2014
With that said by Bioshrike and Damnacious, I'd like to remind everyone that these forums are not the place to discuss bad behavior. If one has an issue with a user in this, or any channel, contact the Channel Operators privately or contact Support. Thanks!
ladymythosMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 637Bounty Hunter
edited August 2014
Aaaaaand I left the channel for good. The reason is simple: It's so full of arrogant d-bags I can't handle it anymore. Take something as simple as asking why greed-runs are default on max level. It seems like a simple question, don't it? When you are max level, you really need good gear. It's the first time you really do. So why do we roll Need on stuff we need all the way up to max level, then suddenly it's perfectly ok to steal stuff from everyone by forcing everyone to roll greed on everything? I asked that in the chat tonight. Now there are two people more on my ignore-list, and I left the channel. I'm not even doing dungeons anymore. At all. With anyone. If these are supposed to be the "nice" players, I don't want to meet the bad ones...
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pitirre34prMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2014
Is it me or it's the same player just different accounts.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Aaaaaand I left the channel for good. The reason is simple: It's so full of arrogant d-bags I can't handle it anymore. Take something as simple as asking why greed-runs are default on max level. It seems like a simple question, don't it? When you are max level, you really need good gear. It's the first time you really do. So why do we roll Need on stuff we need all the way up to max level, then suddenly it's perfectly ok to steal stuff from everyone by forcing everyone to roll greed on everything? I asked that in the chat tonight. Now there are two people more on my ignore-list, and I left the channel. I'm not even doing dungeons anymore. At all. With anyone. If these are supposed to be the "nice" players, I don't want to meet the bad ones...
I think one should look in the mirror before pointing on others, you asked a question, i gave you an extremely detailed answer that you choose to ignore and repeat the same question again and again. With no regards to the answers that were given, while everyone was polite to you while you called people d-bags.
Even asked you to PM me if you have further questions, and yet...
By forming your question "why the stupid rule..." it is obvious you don't want an an answer, but already formed an opinion..
If you do not agree or do not understand it doesn't makes others something....
But calling other d-bags when they are trying to explain you their opinion makes you something...
Aaaaaand I left the channel for good. The reason is simple: It's so full of arrogant d-bags I can't handle it anymore. Take something as simple as asking why greed-runs are default on max level. It seems like a simple question, don't it? When you are max level, you really need good gear. It's the first time you really do. So why do we roll Need on stuff we need all the way up to max level, then suddenly it's perfectly ok to steal stuff from everyone by forcing everyone to roll greed on everything? I asked that in the chat tonight. Now there are two people more on my ignore-list, and I left the channel. I'm not even doing dungeons anymore. At all. With anyone. If these are supposed to be the "nice" players, I don't want to meet the bad ones...
I would say that 95% of my experience with the /Legit channel has been positive.
I'd also say that the "Greed All" rule makes sense from a role playing perspective: everybody did their part in the team that led to defeat of the baddie, so everybody gets a shot at winning the loot.
Plus if you let people start making arguments about "I *NEED* that loot because.... " then it just opens up a huge can of worms. If your set piece drops unbound and you don't yet have that set piece, okay sure, you "NEED" that item. But suppose you are saving up for a Soulforged or an Augment Companion and some high-value set piece drops - can't you also make the argument that you *NEED* the item so that you can sell it to get your Soulforged that you *NEED*? And isn't that true of every player, that we are all saving up for something that we *NEED* loot to sell in order to get it? And whose needs get prioritized over others' needs? Just keep it simple - "greed all". Everybody gets an equal shot because everybody played a part in conquering the dungeon.
Plus, if you win the loot roll and the poor lowbie who actually needs the set piece didn't, you are free to give the set piece to the lowbie all on your own volition without having a rule requiring it.
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ladymythosMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 637Bounty Hunter
By forming your question "why the stupid rule..." it is obvious you don't want an an answer,
And if you actually bothered to read what I said, I told you I have had to argue with people to be allowed to roll Need some stuff I actually need. This isn't exactly a new discussion for me. I just figured I'd ask in chat instead of in a dungeon, so maybe I would be able to get a decent answer. Guess I was wrong. All I've wanted to know for months is why it's ok to roll Need on stuff pre-max level when you don't need anything, and why it's somehow not ok to roll Need on stuff you really need on max level, when gear is hard to find. And as for the "it's in chest" BS, I don't exactly buy that either. What I don't get is why you are so obeseed at getting your hands on everything at max level that you are willing to steal it from everyone else, despite it's not even for your wrong class, and despite it's bind on pick-up, so yo ucan't even give it to alts. Some of it are, you know.
But whatever, people like you are why I quit doing dungeons, and why I treat this as a solo game.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
And if you actually bothered to read what I said, I told you I have had to argue with people to be allowed to roll Need some stuff I actually need. This isn't exactly a new discussion for me. I just figured I'd ask in chat instead of in a dungeon, so maybe I would be able to get a decent answer. Guess I was wrong. But whatever, people like you are why I quit doing dungeons, and why I treat this as a solo game.
And you were answered to that too, Party rules are set before the run, and has nothing to do with the channel. You can also read few posts above.
If you agreed to a loot type than thats the loot type you will get.
If you do not agree, do not run. If you want some specific rules, form a party.
And what exactly is 'people like me' ?
And just to be clear here is your question:
"[2:56] [NW_Legit_Community] @ladymythos: Question time: Why are the stupid Greed-runs default at max level? isn't that when you finally need a Need-run?"
And have you bothered to read my answer ?
Or how was it not decent?
There is actually an irony in all that, Bi BI and I were one of those that took you on your first runs with you on your TR long long time ago and even tried to give you some r5-r6 so you can run t2 to get you gear.
I remember because i liked the handle name. How things turn around in life...
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited August 2014
Can we please drop the arguments about loot rolls already. I don't know how many different ways to say it - work that out with your team; it is not an official policy of NW_Legit_Community one way or the other. Start a new thread if you want to discuss the pros or cons of one loot mode over another, please.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited August 2014
This thread has been refreshed and these comments removed for complete consistency. Some posts may be merged into the refreshed thread, at the discretion of the Moderator Team and Bioshrike (OP).
Comments
Here's a tinyurl for the rules post, (it's also in the channel MotD, but it's un-obvious, unfortunately): http://tinyurl.com/k3zw5df
I've also added the link to my signature - hopefully they'll get more exposure that way.
Thanks for your feedback!
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I don't know if it's a bug or what, but the only time people have reported actually seeing it in channel is when I go in and make some change, then save it... I don't know how else someone is supposed to see it, though.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
As Bio is looking for more moderators, i would like to nominate @mickey1p00 and @stretch611 as a couple of people that i think would be good for the job. They are on regularly (almost / as often as i am!) and have been in the channel for quite a while (in the case of Janne, as long as me).
Anyway, many thanks to everyone for all of your contributions to the channel! Your participation, care and support has helped make the channel the success that it is today!
@damnacious
@kalthanatos
I mean, I ask people not to make them, but half the time they just argue with me about why I shouldn't be offended they said something offensive. -_- Liberal use of the ignore command is made, but really, it needs to be made clear that that kind of stuff is not OK. It's becoming common enough that I'm really getting uncomfortable with the channel. (And given that my characters are in a personal guild, I don't have a guild to go take refuge in. I should find one, since if this kind of thing keeps up I'm not OK with staying in a channel that keeps turning hostile to minority groups.)
I'm also really, seriously, completely sick of the '4E sucks' edition warring that goes on every single time someone brings up 4E in the channel. Can we stop that too? If I want people bashing 4E... Wait, I don't want that ever. -_- I'm a 4E fan and it gets seriously tiresome whenever it comes up.
I would like to learn the ins and outs of the dungeons.
I've been looking on the wiki... and though tis good for a number of things... there are a number of pages that are just stubs or don't exist at all.
But I'm looking forward to it.
I agree Veldrin. I think i've been on a number of times when this has happened and you have also been on. You and I (on one account or another) have brought up that such comments aren't appropriate and sometimes it may lead to laying 'blame' on us for being offended by it.
However, as Bio has been talking about, he has enslaved some new mods which will help. (All 'hail' Janne, queen of thieves and eternal slave to the Legits!)
I don't believe it is acceptable or good that you don't feel comfortable in the channel all the time due to the actions of others. I also don't believe anyone in the channel should really be needing to use the /ignore function at all with other members, yet i can certainly see how little option has been left in a number of cases and i'm confident that our Legit ignore list is pretty similar at this stage.
I think that with more mods being available, not even necessarily using their authority but just being visible, will be a good step in limiting the frequency of these undesirable occurrences and, hopefully, reduce the necessity to ignore members at all.
So, if this sort of activity does occur again when i'm on you can rest assured that again you won't be alone in pointing out what should be obvious.
@damnacious
@kalthanatos
Now that we've gotten the pleasantries out of the way, I want to go over a few things:
1. Everyone in the channel is presumed innocent until proven guilty. If you feel that you've been wronged by someone in the channel, and it's something that is a violation to the overall game's rules, then please submit a GM ticket. If the offense wasn't technically against PWE's/Cryptic's rules, but violates the spirit of what NW_Legit_Community stands for, we are going to need some sort of proof to take action. The best way to back your statement up is to provide a copy-paste of the supporting chat, and send it to one of the channel moderators for review. DO NOT NAME AND SHAME IN-CHANNEL!
2. I want the channel to remain free and open as much as possible, but if a few people try to dominate the channel with negative or hateful conversation, (regardless of the actual topic being discussed), you will be asked to stop. This includes Pay to Win/P2W conversations.
3. There is no official loot rule for NW_Legit_Community; Each team should discuss how its members are going to roll for drops. As mentioned in #1 above, if someone from the channel violates an agreed upon loot rule, it is up to the accuser to supply evidence that the accused both agreed to said loot rule and that they broke it.
4. I have done fairly extensive interviews for all channel moderators. Anyone posing as a moderator, who isn't actually one, will be banned from the channel permanently.
Again, thank you to all those who contribute in a positive way, and make NW_Legit_Community a great channel to be a part of!
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
As a member of the channel pretty near since bioshrike announced it in this forum, I can only give thank to ALL the community, including those who have behaved like a troll because they have served to set limits on behavior and discover interesting people while they reacted to his despicable behavior.
Thank you!
I don't mind on control.
I don't main on damage.
I only mind on FUN.
I have reached higher state of FUNNESS!
But 7 is the number for your mount?
I joined this channel some time ago and I find that it seems, in part, to be a front for AD exploiters. I have lurked and observed chat where exploits have been openly discussed, as well as proceeds from the exploits and how to launder profits of 100 million AD through the Auction House.
It appears that some members are no more "Legitimate" Players than Mafia Dons are now "Legitimate" Businessmen. Think about it; it's a good place to hide, after all.
I also notice that, although they claim to party with anyone and to be a better option than Looking For Group, they charge a "fee" to take less experienced level 60 players and tend only to farm Epic dungeons. The "fee" is not like a TR having to pay enchants to get into a dungeon, but less experienced level 60 players have to allow all the gear that drops for their character to be subjected to a GREED roll, even if they really actually need the gear. GREED on everything, including Enchants and Green Gear, is the Legit Channel way, on the grounds that less experienced level 60s are being "carried". This seems to be the antithesis of everything AD&D stands for. They certainly did not carry me.
I have also observed Trolls giving out completely invented disinformation about patch notes and game changes, thus illegitimately misinforming other members and completely wasting their time when they seek clarification.
I have also observed members being threatened with being reported, muted or banned just because other members have turned off their Profanity filter. The Profanity filter is there if you do not like Profanity, so why moan if you see things like ~@!%*# in the Chat window? I have seen far, far worse in PvP - sometimes from my own party! And if you turn the filter off, again, why moan if you see Profanity?
I have been on a few runs with a Legit Channel party and it was a lot of fun. I did not mind having to GREED on drops I could use as I was already pretty well-geared anyway, although I think that this convention is childish, immature, greedy and selfish. But it seems impossible to get a party together with them if you have a new character.
I have also had a lot of fun runs with LFG and only a few times have I experienced problems. Yesterday, I did a normal, Main Quest Cloak Tower run with my level 15 Warlock and only two other members at level 16 with gear scores of about 325. It worked out really well, although I got the same gear from the chest as the last run. Hopefully that chest will be fixed if I do it a third time?
I am extremely disappointed with the Legit Channel.
~
What you claim is completely untrue. You are also one of the more vocal proponents of GREEEED. I wonder why?
Unfortunately for you, I do have a copy of that chat log, as some people claimed I was trolling and someone said they had PMd Bioshrike about it... Oh! Hang on! Who was that? Someone also claimed I was ranting when I was calmly discussing, now who was that, I wonder...?
I was not trolling at all and I was not insulting anyone. I was genuinely concerned about the attitudes of some people on that channel.
A topic of discussion was on-going about whether running straight to the end of a dungeon was not legit and I joined in by asking why this was so. The conversation went on from there to why GREED runs are the Required Legit Way, contrary to what bioshrike says above.
You came into that conversation very near the end and missed most of it.
Expressing a genuine but unpopular opinion is not trolling. But some of the most badly behaved people I have seen outside PvP are hiding in the Legit channel. I have posted in other threads about Greed runs being juvenile and selfish, and I never impose them when I play with less experienced players. I have five level 60 characters, my two Mains having a 15k+ gear score, so I can hardly be considered an inexperienced, under-geared level 60.
But I find it is impossible to get a group from Legit for low level characters, and with a level 60 character you have to agree to a GREED run. I don't care about that with my Mains, but I think it is very unfair to less experienced players.
But that does not matter, as my level 17 Warlock is so heavily geared and enchanted from my main characters, I am "carrying" people from LFG.
You really ought to withdraw your false allegations and insults.
Here are some snippets from that chat log, showing the attitudes of some members:
[NW_LC] M01: I realized the term legit is in a gray area. Is avoiding a group of adds to save time legit, for example?
[NW_LC] M02: Avoiding some is ok.. running through them all is not
[NW_LC] ME: Why is running through not Legit?
[NW_LC] M04: The only part that isn't legit is that the mobs reset.
[NW_LC] ME: Explain
[NW_LC] M02: Pulling rooms together is considered Legit.. but if yo go past the point where they all turn back to their start point.. thats different
[NW_LC] ME: Why?
[NW_LC] M05: It's clearly contrary to design intent; the mobs weren't put there to be ignored.
[NW_LC] M04: Because you're exploiting that the mobs can be reset, instead of following you, as real monsters would.
[NW_LC] M06: running past mobs that reset is exploiting
[NW_LC] ME: Why? Has an AD&D Thief never sneaked past monsters in Stealth
[NW_LC] M04: Yes, a rogue could sneak past. But when he got far enough away the monsters would attack the party members, not go back to twiddle their diddles.
[NW_LC] ME: But real world animals will stop pursuing after a time - either you are no longer a threat to their territory or they return to their lair. Who are YOU to say it is not WAI and therefore an exploit?
[NW_LC] M02: Its exploiting a flaw in the game(The Mobs Reset).. Its an Exploit
[NW_LC] ME: And yet, forcing GREED runs on newer players that actually need the gear IS Legit? Why is that?
[NW_LC] M01: Are we not carrying the newer players?
[NW_LC] M09: if you don't like this channel you can leave
[NW_LC] ME: You have to pass the RNG roll to even get any gear for your class, The NEED or GREED is meant if there is more than ONE of your class in the party. Not a mechanic to stealth steal someone else's gear
[NW_LC] M07: Feel free to leave the channel and run in LFG if you are not happy with the people here.
[NW_LC] ME: No. YOU feel free to play as a properly Legit group and stop trying to steal other people's drops by going against the spirit of the NEED or GREED mechanic. Form a GREED channel instead
[NW_LC] M11: It's funny, in STO, everyone needs regardless.
[NW_LC] M12: loot mechanic should just be Roll or Pass...end of problem
[NW_LC] M09: loot rules are established b4 a run...if you don't like the rules , don't go with that grp
[NW_LC] ME: Not true. Last run I was only told after we'd started and I needed on some green gear and enchants.
[NW_LC] M01: I had people 'Need' on an AoW and selling it in AH right now for 800K.
[NW_LC] ME: I joined this Legit channel as I thought the childish, juvenile and perverse attitude would be left outside. But, no. It's just as full of people who want to farm gear to salvage or sell for AD as an Exploiters channel
[NW_LC] M09: generally speaking....runs in this channel are all greed unless otherwise specified
[NW_LC] M14: is there a mod on to stop xxxxxxx insulting rant?
[NW_LC] ME: I'm just very disappointed that "Legit" is defined by greed runners and exploiters
[NW_LC] M05: The loot protocol argument is a tired one; I'm firmly on the side of Need by default but it's a dead issue.
[NW_LC] M02: You have been told what we define as Legit.. you can or cannot follow it.. your choice
[NW_LC] ME: And yet you force people to choose GREED when they could need, in order for YOU to get a chance of gear you do not need, just so you can sell it. That is against the spirit of the game and the coding.
[NW_LC] M14: stop with the rant. If you don't like the group leave. We didn't hold a gun to your head to be here
[NW_LC] M01: xxxxxxx the last guy I GGed with waited till the last moment to 'Need' on and AoW armor. And he was already wearing one to boot. We had already chose Greed/
[NW_LC] M04: He was a legit?
[NW_LC] M02: GREED means everyone gets a chance at every drop... and thats teamwork.. if you don't want to be part of that team.. then don't. It is your choice. No one is forcing you
[NW_LC] M09: greed on all is fairest imo
[NW_LC] ME: Greed is simply being GREEDY. So it is being childish, immature and selfish
[NW_LC] M01: Well the devs put it as 'Greed' when it could be called roll.
[NW_LC] M09: i think the pt has been made...if looking for need grps, lfg or zone or even guild
[NW_LC] M02: No you have just shown yourself tobe greedy and childish and immature with that statement. You obviously are not a PART of the COmmunity so... go back to LFG and put up with the others t
[NW_LC] ME: I just think it's very ironic that you have the gall to call yourselves Legit when you are not and are abusing a mechanic in your own favour. Anyway, I'm doing professions, so see you later.
[NW_LC] M09: were we just trolled?
[NW_LC] M01: Perhaps
[NW_LC] M15: likely so
[NW_LC] M14: not sure if we were trolled but I just sent bioshrike a pm about it
[NW_LC] M09: i think that was some horrible trolling
[NW_LC] ME: No, I was not trolling at all. I think it's incredibly juvenile and selfish to force Greed on people who might need the gear, just so a TR has the chance to sell DC boots for AD. How selfish is that?
As we can see, many members on the Legit Channel do not allow Exploiting - unless they are Exploiting less experienced players.
~
As more and more people join the channel, there are going to be a few bad apples. I've enlisted the help of some fantastic people to expand our channel moderation, but some bad players will slip through the cracks. I've also said it several times already - there is no official loot rule for the channel. Many players like to do "Greed only" runs because it gives everybody on the team a fair chance at the boss or other drops. You may consider this a "fee", but many consider it simply a fair shot at all items for working as a team.
As to your point about people giving out bad advice - again, some bad players may sneak onto the channel - that's an unfortunate side effect of it being open to anyone that wants to join. If you observe someone knowingly giving bad or misleading information, (and not just being mistaken), ask if there are any moderators on, and send them or me a copy-paste of the chat excerpt.
Lastly, on the subject of cursing or foul language - I have instructed the moderators that infrequent use of curse words in a lighthearted or casual manner is ok, but only to a degree. If someone comes on the channel and is spouting obscenities way more than is necessary, then they will be warned, then muted or kicked as deemed appropriate. Yes, there is a profanity filter, but we want to maintain a more civil tone within the channel.
Thank you,
Biostem
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Actually I was there the whole time, I just tried not to say anything till you finally got me angry enough. Now you are doing it again here on the forums with your abusive rhetoric. You insult anyone that doesn't agree with you calling them an exploiter for wanting to do greed runs. It is you that is poorly behaved. It is you that is a problem.
By the way I am who you labeled as M14 for anyone that wants to know.
Thanks for that.
Apart from the few runs I did early on, I have been using your chat channel mostly for information and discussion on tactics etc. So I really think a Legit_LFG channel and a separate Legit_Discussion channel would be a really good thing. I'd certainly join up, but I think I am finished with the other.
One guy recently formed a party with some of us to help us bone up on the new GF, as I have two GF Leadership Mules that I take out occasionally when I fancy a change from my DC Mains or new Warlock and their feats have been reset. THAT is the kind of person the Legit channel needs: helpful and friendly and full of informative insight.
But I am afraid you have been infiltrated by several barrels of bad apples. Recently, I got incredibly annoyed with some idiots as I had my time wasted by seeking clarification as they were saying that the new module had new mechanics that were absolutely untrue. This was not a error, it was a deliberate troll fest to spread alarm and despondency and finally someone posted that they were kidding.
KIDDING? On the Legit channel!?
I lost it for a moment and left the channel in a flurry of insults.
I am afraid I fell for the Troll Ca-Ca. The reason I fell for it so heavily was that up until that point, your channel was astonishingly good and helpful, apart from the Exploiters and greedy, selfish people hiding in there. I never had any reason before to doubt anything posted in there. I do not care about Greed for my two main characters, but it is not something I would impose on newer players and fresh level 60s, because it is just greedy and selfish. Many, many members of your channel only play to farm epic dungeons and will only do a greed run.
Unfortunately, the trolls and self-centred people have destroyed it for me. I am better off with LFG and PvP.
And I NEVER thought I'd ever say that.
~
My recommendation to you would be to maintain as calm a demeanor as possible, and if someone comes onto the channel with what you interpret or know to be misinformation, calmly and politely call them out on it. Ask if there's a moderator present, (you can check their channel member status by clicking the gear in the upper left of the chat box, choose nw_legit_community from the list of custom channels, click view details, then start typing in someone's handle, without the @ symbol). If their status isn't operator, admin, or higher, then they are just a regular channel member.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
While 'greed all' runs are popular, and their merit and demerit are not the topic, people free to make different groups. The channel rules do not state specifics.
I have never met a group with demands like you wrote and would have left one (if i understand the leader needs part correctly). Perhaps it was some language misunderstanding ?
Also as a general note and as i wrote, anyone free to make groups with whatever rules, as long as everyone agrees, there are split runs and others. And not related to loot but for fun naked runs (removing most equipment after entering to get very very low GS), 5 dc runs, and so on...
I think Bioshrike did sum it up pretty well though with his comments.
I am (i believe!) the GF who partied with you and others to share with you my perspective and experience on the 'new' GF and i really appreciate your kind words. I always enjoy helping others and sharing whatever i can and i hope it was of some benefit to you!
I am also an Operator/mod for the Legit channel and try to take an active interest in this role and the channel so that i, and others, can continue to help and share.
Unfortunately, with the channel open and accessible to everyone and anyone, this means that we will have members who may not act appropriately in the channel. Whether these are actions that are a breach of NWs ToS or the channel's simple, reasonable and modest Code of Conduct does not mean that inappropriate actions are to be tolerated by any means, however there are established facilities in-game for players and channel members to take action if they have an issue with another player.
For example, if the game's ToS is breached, a GM should be contacted and the player reported. This applies to such actions as discussions on how to exploit etc. which are strictly not tolerated in the channel and definitely not permitted anywhere in the game. If a player has an issue with the actions of another member that breaches the channel's Code of Conduct or for any other reason, a channel moderator should be contacted to assist in resolving the issue.
However, with regard to conduct in the channel chat, i must point out that a member who posts in channel a statement such as "Woever started that is a cpomplete &*^%. %^&* %$#. I used to rely on this chat to get genuine information. *^%$ you in the ^%$" is not acting in a mature manner and, regardless of the reason why, is not being courteous or respectful to other members. The frequent use of profanities in such a statement is not necessary and certainly is not what is reasonably acceptable in any social environment that i would feel comfortable participating in and is behaviour that should not find it's way onto the channel.
Although there is a large percentage of dungeon runs that are stipulated as being "Greed" only, as previously mentioned, this is NOT a mandatory part of the channel and each party and its members should agree on loot rules for themselves. Generally, Greed 'runs' are common when players are not able to obtain any loot from the run that would be an upgrade and this is often the reason why Greed 'runs' may be more prevalent.
There is nothing preventing, and a lot encouraging, players creating their own parties and stipulating their own loot rules. Additionally, i have most often found that, with a character that needs gear drops, (from my own experience) all I need to do is let the party know that i would like to Need on some items and ask them if they mind if i Need if the item drops. I have never yet had an issue where other players have not been happy to let me Need when it is a genuine upgrade and i equip the item then and there.
I'm sorry you have had that type of experience in the channel Gomok72 and i must confess to finding the situation rather odd. I hope you will allow me the opportunity to provide you with a more positive perspective and experience of the channel. Whenever i'm on, always feel free to give me a yell and i'll do my best to party with you and go through whatever content you would like and i can guarantee you i will not have a problem with you choosing to Need on items that are actually an upgrade for you that you can equip! So please, if you wouldn't mind giving me a chance, i'd certainly appreciate showing you the positive side of the channel!
But, i can't stress this strongly enough, if anyone ever has any concerns or issues with any other member, always feel free to chat with one of the Operators/ channel mods about it. We do care and we are here to help ensure that everyone enjoys a good experience in the channel.
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I think one should look in the mirror before pointing on others, you asked a question, i gave you an extremely detailed answer that you choose to ignore and repeat the same question again and again. With no regards to the answers that were given, while everyone was polite to you while you called people d-bags.
Even asked you to PM me if you have further questions, and yet...
By forming your question "why the stupid rule..." it is obvious you don't want an an answer, but already formed an opinion..
If you do not agree or do not understand it doesn't makes others something....
But calling other d-bags when they are trying to explain you their opinion makes you something...
I would say that 95% of my experience with the /Legit channel has been positive.
I'd also say that the "Greed All" rule makes sense from a role playing perspective: everybody did their part in the team that led to defeat of the baddie, so everybody gets a shot at winning the loot.
Plus if you let people start making arguments about "I *NEED* that loot because.... " then it just opens up a huge can of worms. If your set piece drops unbound and you don't yet have that set piece, okay sure, you "NEED" that item. But suppose you are saving up for a Soulforged or an Augment Companion and some high-value set piece drops - can't you also make the argument that you *NEED* the item so that you can sell it to get your Soulforged that you *NEED*? And isn't that true of every player, that we are all saving up for something that we *NEED* loot to sell in order to get it? And whose needs get prioritized over others' needs? Just keep it simple - "greed all". Everybody gets an equal shot because everybody played a part in conquering the dungeon.
Plus, if you win the loot roll and the poor lowbie who actually needs the set piece didn't, you are free to give the set piece to the lowbie all on your own volition without having a rule requiring it.
But whatever, people like you are why I quit doing dungeons, and why I treat this as a solo game.
And you were answered to that too, Party rules are set before the run, and has nothing to do with the channel. You can also read few posts above.
If you agreed to a loot type than thats the loot type you will get.
If you do not agree, do not run. If you want some specific rules, form a party.
And what exactly is 'people like me' ?
And just to be clear here is your question:
"[2:56] [NW_Legit_Community] @ladymythos: Question time: Why are the stupid Greed-runs default at max level? isn't that when you finally need a Need-run?"
And have you bothered to read my answer ?
Or how was it not decent?
There is actually an irony in all that, Bi BI and I were one of those that took you on your first runs with you on your TR long long time ago and even tried to give you some r5-r6 so you can run t2 to get you gear.
I remember because i liked the handle name. How things turn around in life...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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