Say it to the shards, that cost over 20k AD at the moment. So they make a 75% penalty for non-matching shards.
Oh the 'wonderful' news: If they don't reactivate the Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation(because all items i get BoA), i copied it for over a week the char with the normal Coffer from live, then the rewards are:
1(small chance for 2) R4 or 1 R5 enchantment AND 1 CW or 1 PW or 1 Peridot/Aquamarine! So yes, they have decreased the chance! From 32 coffer i get 1 CW, 8 PW, 17! useless Peridots and 6 Aquamarine. What the hell?!
Price grow up artificialy by players of test serveur. If players dont try to make money with not definitiv information
a shard would cost 800AD for 540 point refinment point, equivalent at the 2.5k for 2160point today.
Players who try to fuuucked all other have been OWNED.
Price of shards will decrease and cost of refinement will decrease. Players who have buy shard last month will loose money
That s all.
There is also the problem of supply with what you are saying. The prices won't go down that much because the supply (shard drops) stay the same but everyone needs 4x more. If you do a quick AH analysis, you'll see that the supply isnt that huge.
There is also the problem of supply with what you are saying. The prices won't go down that much because the supply (shard drops) stay the same but everyone needs 4x more. If you do a quick AH analysis, you'll see that the supply isnt that huge.
Shard arent only way to refinment. We will use more other item that s all.
I've been working on a simple spreadsheet that details refinement/upgrade costs. It's still in progress but it has a lot of information in it. If there's anything I can add to it please let me know.
Shard arent only way to refinment. We will use more other item that s all.
Which are going to cost more, and with the coal change, pretty much backpeddling on one of the objective they had by introcuding the new system which is to reduce the high difficulty to attain high end enchantments.
There's something odd about the new refining system. We're being screwed in every way possible except in unslotting costs. Cryptic, can you please increase unslotting costs to 500 gold?
The change for normal shards from 2160 to 540 is BAD. TERRIBLY BAD.
Cost of perfect vorpal:
Random shards cost: 2700 AD, 1216 shards= 3,283,200 AD
Vorpal shard cost: around 20,000 AD, 32 shards= 640,000 AD
Coal ward cost: 150,000 AD, 15 coal wards= 2,250,000 AD
Greater Mark of Potency: 75,000 AD, 10 marks= 750,000 AD
Total cost:
Total: 6,923,200 AD
And that assuming the coal wards would stay at 150,000 which is NOT going to happen since they are BoP from coffers now.
Also that shards will have more demand on them..so probably they will cap at 5,000 AD max and that would make the total cost close to 9 ~ 10 M AD to make 1 perfect vorpal.
But that's not the issue, the issue is with the normal enchants. Upgrading normal enchants like dark and radiants etc would cost way more now than the current server. Especially that we need to pay for the marks on top of the refinement amount increase.
You basically increased the amount of random shards needed 4 times more. So for enchants such as teneborus and plague fire that don't have "matching shards" can't benefit from the new enhanced matching bonus at all. Which means they are increased in their costs more than the live shards.
You are making it more expensive, this system was supposed to make it cheaper and easier.
Please reconsider this.
The change for normal shards from 2160 to 540 is BAD. TERRIBLY BAD.
Cost of perfect vorpal:
Random shards cost: 2700 AD, 1216 shards= 3,283,200 AD
Vorpal shard cost: around 20,000 AD, 32 shards= 640,000 AD
Coal ward cost: 150,000 AD, 15 coal wards= 2,250,000 AD
Greater Mark of Potency: 75,000 AD, 10 marks= 750,000 AD
Total cost:
Total: 6,923,200 AD
And that assuming the coal wards would stay at 150,000 which is NOT going to happen since they are BoP from coffers now.
Also that shards will have more demand on them..so probably they will cap at 5,000 AD max and that would make the total cost close to 9 ~ 10 M AD to make 1 perfect vorpal.
But that's not the issue, the issue is with the normal enchants. Upgrading normal enchants like dark and radiants etc would cost way more now than the current server. Especially that we need to pay for the marks on top of the refinement amount increase.
You basically increased the amount of random shards needed 4 times more. So for enchants such as teneborus and plague fire that don't have "matching shards" can't benefit from the new enhanced matching bonus at all. Which means they are increased in their costs more than the live shards.
You are making it more expensive, this system was supposed to make it cheaper and easier.
Please reconsider this.
+100 /10char
0
thuldyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
... this system was supposed to make it cheaper and easier.
Please reconsider this.[/U]
I see a lot of players regularly saying this but I do not recollect a Dev actually ever saying that. If someone remembers it please correct me. The first post uses language like "much more enjoyable" but does not define that as less expensive unless it is buried in another post.
It is not really in Dev's interest to make the process much "cheaper", particularly once far too many of the player base seems to think the current live costs are bearable and perhaps even acceptable. Merely to shift the cost return from expending that amount toward zen sources instead of player farmed sources. Looking at the totality of what has been done with refining, Coffers, Coal Ward drop rates etc it would seem to favour the cynics view.
Unfortunately all these style of changes increase the gap betwixt the haves and the have nots and make it more difficult for new joiners to appreciate more of the game.
I see a lot of players regularly saying this but I do not recollect a Dev actually ever saying that. If someone remembers it please correct me. The first post uses language like "much more enjoyable" but does not define that as less expensive unless it is buried in another post.
It is not really in Dev's interest to make the process much "cheaper", particularly once far too many of the player base seems to think the current live costs are bearable and perhaps even acceptable. Merely to shift the cost return from expending that amount toward zen sources instead of player farmed sources. Looking at the totality of what has been done with refining, Coffers, Coal Ward drop rates etc it would seem to favour the cynics view.
Unfortunately all these style of changes increase the gap betwixt the haves and the have nots and make it more difficult for new joiners to appreciate more of the game.
From what i read, they wanted to make it "Less harder", how is increasing the cost making it less harder?
With the old system, to take your current Rank 7 Enchantment up to Rank 8, you had to get 3 more of the same Rank 7 Enchantments. This was usually accomplished by finding a whole bunch of Rank 4 Enchantments, making them into a whole bunch of Rank 5 Enchantments, then make those into a whole bunch of Rank 6 Enchantments, before finally making all of THOSE into 3 Rank 7 Enchantments – and THEN performing your Upgrade to a Rank 8 Enchantment. And at each of these Upgrade steps (hundreds of steps in total), you had a chance to fail, which meant that you’d have to go get another Enchantment.
So we reduced the matching Enchantment requirements of these high Rank Enchantments to only 1 match, instead of 3 matches. This, coupled with the fact that Refining them could now be done directly with any rank of Enchantment or Runestone, meant that we also removed hundreds of upgrade steps (and potential failure points) from the process.
After making these changes, we found one more area that we could improve. We found that obtaining items that could be big boosts to how quickly an item could rank up felt really good, so we added special “Refining Stones” that are basically just big pools of Refinement Points. Finding one of these in game is rare (typically from Skill Nodes or boss drops), but can give you a big boost and get your Enchantments (and Artifacts) ready to Upgrade that much more quickly.
0
thuldyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited November 2013
Nope, I have read all the "biggest issues" in the Old Fusion section of that post which appear to be the driving factors and none specifically relate to a goal of making the process less expensive overall.
Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT it to be more expensive (my own enchants mainly stopped at r6 as I did not like the cost). I am just pointing out that I do not think that was ever a promise of what this new system would deliver to the player base.
0
saolilMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited November 2013
Feedback: General: Slotting Enchantments I still think this is a horrible change that needs to be scrapped altogether. No matter how many times I try to get behind this, I just cannot. All this seems like is yet another money sink for PWE, awesome.
Nope, I have read all the "biggest issues" in the Old Fusion section of that post which appear to be the driving factors and none specifically relate to a goal of making the process less expensive overall.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=1028581
"The final issue was the difficulty of getting higher ranked Enchantments. While we want there to be some challenge involved – as we want the additional value of those high end Enchantments to be meaningful and have value as Epic items – there was room for that difficulty to be reduced" By Pinpointerror @ November 11, 2013 at 9:59am
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=1028581
"The final issue was the difficulty of getting higher ranked Enchantments. While we want there to be some challenge involved – as we want the additional value of those high end Enchantments to be meaningful and have value as Epic items – there was room for that difficulty to be reduced" By Pinpointerror @ November 11, 2013 at 9:59am
enjoy
I demand explanation from the devs regarding their statement, as it stands what they promised was reducing the difficulty of getting higher level enchants and as the calculations suggest, the price AND difficulty(coal ward supply decrease and addition of and extra resource- catalysts) have both increased!
You have blatantly lied to your customers if no explanation is given I do no think I will deal with your products anymore!
And yes I'm upset but not as much because of the changes but rather them masking changes and because of their lies, how is this appropriate in way at all?
Refining point needed would decrease, and shard stay at 540 point.
Like that cost of refining would be the same but other stone would be use and not considered "too expensive"
0
saolilMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited November 2013
I still fail to see how this is better than the former system of fusing. It seems way more involved than it should be with the new changes, and expensive.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited November 2013
I don't think the new system is going to make high level enchantments any more accessible to new players than they were before.
I think the developers were on the right track, right up until they decreased refinement points value and made coal wards from coffers BoP. The decreased cost of refinement points will drive up the prices of low level enchants, because no one will want to sell theirs and instead use all of them for refining, and this in combination with the decreased supply in Coal wards will drive up high level enchantment costs (or at least keep them the same).
As it is now the system only really benefits players like me, who already have moderately high level enchants (greaters or normals and rank 7s or 8s). I think it will really widen the gap between vets and new players. I think lots of changes in Module 2 will do that.
How many of the current complainers played epics on PTS?
Some calculated and find out that -excluding the reagents of marks- it's a win situation. We need less runes(first +), We need less Wards(second +), we don't need AD to remove enchantment(third +), you can upgrade your slots direct(fourth +) and the last you can use all for the points(fifth +).
The point from a new player is better, because he starts at a clean position(not lot of 147562 enchantment things).
We don't know how the chances are for dropping the marks, so complaining here about it isn't helpful.
It exist some ways to earn marks, so for developing enchantment it isn't a bottleneck.
How many of the current complainers played epics on PTS?
Some calculated and find out that -excluding the reagents of marks- it's a win situation. We need less runes(first +), We need less Wards(second +), we don't need AD to remove enchantment(third +), you can upgrade your slots direct(fourth +) and the last you can use all for the points(fifth +).
The point from a new player is better, because he starts at a clean position(not lot of 147562 enchantment things).
We don't know how the chances are for dropping the marks, so complaining here about it isn't helpful.
It exist some ways to earn marks, so for developing enchantment it isn't a bottleneck.
+1
Crying ppl are just who buy massive stack of shard and expect inflation.
I have all my enchants @ greater. So that change isn't really affecting me that much.
I was talking for the new players who would need to pay more. Me and other players already posted mathmatical proof that they will be higher in price than current live server.
But if you guys like it, then be it. Enjoy your pricey enchantments as you clearly are clueless about the Supply/Demand concept in economy .
I have all my enchants @ greater. So that change isn't really affecting me that much.
I was talking for the new players who would need to pay more. Me and other players already posted mathmatical proof that they will be higher in price than current live server.
But if you guys like it, then be it. Enjoy your pricey enchantments as you clearly are clueless about the Supply/Demand concept in economy .
So now for a rank 8 i need 2 rank 7, 128 rank 4 and 1 mark at 100k ad plus 4 wards. Instead of 4 rank 7 plus 4 wards. Yeah now is so much cheaper and so much easier to make them... really what was the main reason for all this? Making it more accessible to the players, u said?! Sorry but imo u guys failed !
So now for a rank 8 i need 2 rank 7, 128 rank 4 and 1 mark at 100k ad plus 4 wards. Instead of 4 rank 7 plus 4 wards. Yeah now is so much cheaper and so much easier to make them... really what was the main reason for all this? Making it more accessible to the players, u said?! Sorry but imo u guys failed !
You failed. You need less enchantment and wards as before. And the calculation with 100k Mark is invalid as you can post dropchances were very low.
You failed. You need less enchantment and wards as before. And the calculation with 100k Mark is invalid as you can post dropchances were very low.
for a rank 7 now on live u need 75 rank 4 plus 10 wards for the cheapest way: so for 2 rank 7: 150 rank 4 (22 extra enchantment at 1k) plus 20 wards (80k).
for a rank 7 now on live u need 75 rank 4 plus 10 wards for the cheapest way: so for 2 rank 7: 150 rank 4 (22 extra enchantment at 1k) plus 20 wards (80k).
And? With the new system you need less wards and less enchantment. Secondary you can use cheap enchantment too.
I just cant belive people are happy with the shards rp value being cut by 4, being that it is bad for everyone had u been stacking them or not. U cant farm shards as fast as enchants/runes , not even close. U just get shards from ur daily dark fey keys, DD chests and boss kills (not even guaranteed) that u have to win the roll with other 5 people, they should give good rp. specially considering how much stuff we have to refine now, 12 enchantments ( + 6 per pet), plus weapon + armour enchantment + 3 artifacts.
honestly with all these changes they have been doing i prefer the original setup where they just put a fee to the upgrade, kept the coal ward market cheap and had 2160 rp shards... that was cheaper than what we are ending up with.
I can understand devs have to walk a thin line to keep investors and customers happy but what really disapoints me is the way they do things, just slip undocumented changes into a patch and hope no one notices.... and when they do just save face conceding to canceling the upsetting changes and backstabbing again somehere else.
Imho what they should do is recover the coal ward zen market, like how preservations wards are, put them at a decent price so they actually sell them, say 300-400 zen mark while keeping the praybots out with the boa change. They will sell more zen if people find the price is fair, and actually in line with ah/maket value. I also think the actual zen to ad ratio would go up as people would be using it more frequently for the coal buying.
If they must put a bit more of an ad sink and make high end enchantmens a bit more expensive put a smaller refinement fee on them (r7s n up), maybe something like 10-15k r7, 20-25k r8, 30-35k r9, 50k r10 while Keeping the shards as the begining (2160 rp) that would make them somewhat more expensive, but still at point where people would still actualy be interested in upgrading beyond a r7-8 while keeping the lower end enchantments as accesible as they are to the lower end playerbase.
btw guys a lot of u ignore fact we need to charge enchants to can upgrade them for example my g vorpal need 300k+ points and one greater give 50k so i need 6 greater echants to charge it and i need 1 to fuse it so now i will need to use 8 greater enchants to can make perfect one and before i could do it with 4 and now also i will need this new marks and wards to so it is will be 3 times more expansive min
btw guys a lot of u ignore fact we need to charge enchants to can upgrade them for example my g vorpal need 300k+ points and one greater give 50k so i need 6 greater echants to charge it and i need 1 to fuse it so now i will need to use 8 greater enchants to can make perfect one and before i could do it with 4 and now also i will need this new marks and wards to so it is will be 3 times more expansive min
And you can use perfect vorpal to refine training stone rank 5 ... but its stupid.
Comments
Say it to the shards, that cost over 20k AD at the moment. So they make a 75% penalty for non-matching shards.
Oh the 'wonderful' news: If they don't reactivate the Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation(because all items i get BoA), i copied it for over a week the char with the normal Coffer from live, then the rewards are:
1(small chance for 2) R4 or 1 R5 enchantment AND 1 CW or 1 PW or 1 Peridot/Aquamarine! So yes, they have decreased the chance! From 32 coffer i get 1 CW, 8 PW, 17! useless Peridots and 6 Aquamarine. What the hell?!
There is also the problem of supply with what you are saying. The prices won't go down that much because the supply (shard drops) stay the same but everyone needs 4x more. If you do a quick AH analysis, you'll see that the supply isnt that huge.
Shard arent only way to refinment. We will use more other item that s all.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuMuQJ2-VDbedENyLWk5NElBbUV4a0hYTXBWZm16VHc&usp=sharing
Which are going to cost more, and with the coal change, pretty much backpeddling on one of the objective they had by introcuding the new system which is to reduce the high difficulty to attain high end enchantments.
because shard are too easy to win , so 2160 pt of refiment is too much.
If refining may be up ... is not with a shard with 2160pt but less point needed to evolve our enchantement.
The pb is comparaison between r5 / r6 and shard.
The change for normal shards from 2160 to 540 is BAD. TERRIBLY BAD.
Cost of perfect vorpal:
Random shards cost: 2700 AD, 1216 shards= 3,283,200 AD
Vorpal shard cost: around 20,000 AD, 32 shards= 640,000 AD
Coal ward cost: 150,000 AD, 15 coal wards= 2,250,000 AD
Greater Mark of Potency: 75,000 AD, 10 marks= 750,000 AD
Total cost:
Total: 6,923,200 AD
And that assuming the coal wards would stay at 150,000 which is NOT going to happen since they are BoP from coffers now.
Also that shards will have more demand on them..so probably they will cap at 5,000 AD max and that would make the total cost close to 9 ~ 10 M AD to make 1 perfect vorpal.
But that's not the issue, the issue is with the normal enchants. Upgrading normal enchants like dark and radiants etc would cost way more now than the current server. Especially that we need to pay for the marks on top of the refinement amount increase.
You basically increased the amount of random shards needed 4 times more. So for enchants such as teneborus and plague fire that don't have "matching shards" can't benefit from the new enhanced matching bonus at all. Which means they are increased in their costs more than the live shards.
You are making it more expensive, this system was supposed to make it cheaper and easier.
Please reconsider this.
+100 /10char
I see a lot of players regularly saying this but I do not recollect a Dev actually ever saying that. If someone remembers it please correct me. The first post uses language like "much more enjoyable" but does not define that as less expensive unless it is buried in another post.
It is not really in Dev's interest to make the process much "cheaper", particularly once far too many of the player base seems to think the current live costs are bearable and perhaps even acceptable. Merely to shift the cost return from expending that amount toward zen sources instead of player farmed sources. Looking at the totality of what has been done with refining, Coffers, Coal Ward drop rates etc it would seem to favour the cynics view.
Unfortunately all these style of changes increase the gap betwixt the haves and the have nots and make it more difficult for new joiners to appreciate more of the game.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=1028581
From what i read, they wanted to make it "Less harder", how is increasing the cost making it less harder?
Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT it to be more expensive (my own enchants mainly stopped at r6 as I did not like the cost). I am just pointing out that I do not think that was ever a promise of what this new system would deliver to the player base.
Feedback: General: Slotting Enchantments
I still think this is a horrible change that needs to be scrapped altogether. No matter how many times I try to get behind this, I just cannot. All this seems like is yet another money sink for PWE, awesome.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=1028581
"The final issue was the difficulty of getting higher ranked Enchantments. While we want there to be some challenge involved – as we want the additional value of those high end Enchantments to be meaningful and have value as Epic items – there was room for that difficulty to be reduced" By Pinpointerror @ November 11, 2013 at 9:59am
enjoy
I demand explanation from the devs regarding their statement, as it stands what they promised was reducing the difficulty of getting higher level enchants and as the calculations suggest, the price AND difficulty(coal ward supply decrease and addition of and extra resource- catalysts) have both increased!
You have blatantly lied to your customers if no explanation is given I do no think I will deal with your products anymore!
And yes I'm upset but not as much because of the changes but rather them masking changes and because of their lies, how is this appropriate in way at all?
Refining point needed would decrease, and shard stay at 540 point.
Like that cost of refining would be the same but other stone would be use and not considered "too expensive"
I think the developers were on the right track, right up until they decreased refinement points value and made coal wards from coffers BoP. The decreased cost of refinement points will drive up the prices of low level enchants, because no one will want to sell theirs and instead use all of them for refining, and this in combination with the decreased supply in Coal wards will drive up high level enchantment costs (or at least keep them the same).
As it is now the system only really benefits players like me, who already have moderately high level enchants (greaters or normals and rank 7s or 8s). I think it will really widen the gap between vets and new players. I think lots of changes in Module 2 will do that.
Some calculated and find out that -excluding the reagents of marks- it's a win situation. We need less runes(first +), We need less Wards(second +), we don't need AD to remove enchantment(third +), you can upgrade your slots direct(fourth +) and the last you can use all for the points(fifth +).
The point from a new player is better, because he starts at a clean position(not lot of 147562 enchantment things).
We don't know how the chances are for dropping the marks, so complaining here about it isn't helpful.
It exist some ways to earn marks, so for developing enchantment it isn't a bottleneck.
+1
Crying ppl are just who buy massive stack of shard and expect inflation.
I was talking for the new players who would need to pay more. Me and other players already posted mathmatical proof that they will be higher in price than current live server.
But if you guys like it, then be it. Enjoy your pricey enchantments as you clearly are clueless about the Supply/Demand concept in economy
Cheers.
Show me what math you do.
You failed. You need less enchantment and wards as before. And the calculation with 100k Mark is invalid as you can post dropchances were very low.
for a rank 7 now on live u need 75 rank 4 plus 10 wards for the cheapest way: so for 2 rank 7: 150 rank 4 (22 extra enchantment at 1k) plus 20 wards (80k).
And? With the new system you need less wards and less enchantment. Secondary you can use cheap enchantment too.
honestly with all these changes they have been doing i prefer the original setup where they just put a fee to the upgrade, kept the coal ward market cheap and had 2160 rp shards... that was cheaper than what we are ending up with.
I can understand devs have to walk a thin line to keep investors and customers happy but what really disapoints me is the way they do things, just slip undocumented changes into a patch and hope no one notices.... and when they do just save face conceding to canceling the upsetting changes and backstabbing again somehere else.
Imho what they should do is recover the coal ward zen market, like how preservations wards are, put them at a decent price so they actually sell them, say 300-400 zen mark while keeping the praybots out with the boa change. They will sell more zen if people find the price is fair, and actually in line with ah/maket value. I also think the actual zen to ad ratio would go up as people would be using it more frequently for the coal buying.
If they must put a bit more of an ad sink and make high end enchantmens a bit more expensive put a smaller refinement fee on them (r7s n up), maybe something like 10-15k r7, 20-25k r8, 30-35k r9, 50k r10 while Keeping the shards as the begining (2160 rp) that would make them somewhat more expensive, but still at point where people would still actualy be interested in upgrading beyond a r7-8 while keeping the lower end enchantments as accesible as they are to the lower end playerbase.
And you can use perfect vorpal to refine training stone rank 5 ... but its stupid.
But that shard and rank 6 have equal refining point its stupid.
rank 5 = 540pt
shard = 1080pt
rank 6 = 2160pt
That would be an equal solution...
The pb is the second epik stone needed at rank 8 / 9 / 10 not shard s refining point (that cant stay at 2160pt)