josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited November 2013
Prayer farmers will be able to:
Mass Pray for coal wards at half (please someone test coffer rate on Owlbear) of today's rate
Send all to 1 toon
Create and sell unbound enhancements
Thus, the price of CWs may ultimately be driven by the cost of lessers/normals/etc. No one would buy 4 shards and pay 400k to fuse them if they can just buy the lesser for 150k from a prayer farmer. Just like no-one pays 400k for a coal now when they can be bought on AH for 150k.
If cryptic really wants to drive their cw sales, they should bind everything created w/ bound CWs.
. . . . . Making up to Rank 5's, I really like the system. I don't mind the 1,500 AD cost (500 per lesser mark), I feel that is appropriate. However, going from Rank 5's to 6's and beyond is still ridiculous. Mind you, I am UNABLE to find any Catalysts through out the world. Now if Catalysts drop through out the world, the Blues and Purples, then I don't see an issue. But if we are still being forced to buy these Marks, then I just simply won't be wearing anything more than Rank 5's. As it stands, the blue and purple catalysts are ridiculous in price. They should be 1,000 AD and 5,000 AD respectively. Not 25,000 AD and 100,000 AD.... That's still too expensive for my tastes.
. . . . . Removing Enchantments, this system and cost I feel is perfect. Please don't change this. The only change I can see happening is making it cheaper based upon rank of enchantment and more expensive the higher rank. So say the highest rank may cost 10 gold, while removing a rank 1 would cost 1 silver. However, leaving it at a flat rate of 2.5 gold is extremely acceptable to me.
And this is the largest problem it doesn't matter how GOOD or Enjoyable it was for you to make if you cannot get your hands on the catalysts or appropriate marks to level past 5 then its still no better than the old system (creation wise) I love the un-slotting system and what that means long term. But the goal for every player here is to actually at some point be able to make top tier stones etc. without having to play 2 years to slot one character. We already grind for gear but what good is the gear if you cannot slot it. We don't want to spend all of our finances on 1 single stone or weapon enchant etc... it would be nice to be able to be competitive in a reasonable amount of time. There are so many things that people spend money on in this game this part doesn't need to be the tax that crumbles the fun.
Feedback: Enchantment Quest Rewards So I just finished Cathedral of Madness and received the Silvery Enchantment Rank 5. At that time every enchantment I had slotted, but 1 was maxed in refinement points just waiting for Marks of Potency to be able to buff them to Rank 5. Changing these rewards (after level 15 at least) to being Marks of Potency (2x Minor in Neverdeath and 2x Lesser in Cathedral BoP would be fine) would be far more useful to characters now than the original Enchantments.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
This is an implicit assumption regarding the AD:RP ratio in your analysis, but is not strictly correct.
The cost is 32 shards + ~ 750k RP * AD:RP + 15 coal wards + 10 GMP.
That's 32 x [shard cost] + 15 x [cw cost] + 7 x [GMP cost] + 750,000 x [AD per 1 RP]
Corrections:
-Demandable shards (vorpals, barkshield etc) are 30k~50k now and increasing. Not 20 k anymore.
-CW can hit 400,000 with the new droprate, since the ZEN cap is 500,000.
-Needed RP to make 1 perfect, isnt 750,000 it is 656,640k. ( 4 refined lessers + 2 refined normals + 1 refined greater).
So cost wont be more expensive than 12 M AD.
If you calculate with old system and old drop rate:
256 x 20,000 + 85x 100,000 = 13.6 M AD. (As you mentioned)
Corrections:
-Demandable shards (vorpals, barkshield etc) are 30k~50k now and increasing. Not 20 k anymore.
-CW can hit 400,000 with the new droprate, since the ZEN cap is 500,000.
-Needed RP to make 1 perfect, isnt 750,000 it is 656,640k. ( 4 refined lessers + 2 refined normals + 1 refined greater).
So cost wont be more expensive than 12 M AD.
If you calculate with old system and old drop rate:
256 x 20,000 + 85x 100,000 = 13.6 M AD. (As you mentioned)
So both are around the same price ( only 1.6M AD difference) at maximum prices.
Hopefully they wont change the price of the sapphire on WB, else prices will be uncontrolled.
32 x [30,000] + 15 x [400,000] + 10 x [100,000] + 656,640 x [6] = 11,899,840.
Sound bad, but...
If u bay all today, then:
32 x [30,000] + 15 x B][COLOR="#FF0000"]150,000[/COLOR][/B + 10 x [100,000] + 656,640 x B][COLOR="#FF0000"]2[/COLOR][/B = 5,523,280
Time to go up for auction, before its too late;)
32 x [30,000] + 15 x [400,000] + 10 x [100,000] + 656,640 x [6] = 11,899,840.
Sound bad, but...
If u bay all today, then:
32 x [30,000] + 15 x B][COLOR="#FF0000"]150,000[/COLOR][/B + 10 x [100,000] + 656,640 x B][COLOR="#FF0000"]2[/COLOR][/B = 5,523,280
Time to go up for auction, before its too late;)
lol...i already did .
0
zanzy1975Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Me too, but ppl crying that played 6 months, but not to farm wards for perfect
I do not understand how you can play 6 months and not earn 2,250,000 AD?
if 6 * 30 * 24000 = 4,320,000 AD
Newcomers - yes, almost impossible to make perfect
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
32 x [30,000] + 15 x [400,000] + 10 x [100,000] + 656,640 x [6] = 11,899,840.
Sound bad, but...
If u bay all today, then:
32 x [30,000] + 15 x B][COLOR=#FF0000]150,000[/COLOR][/B + 10 x [100,000] + 656,640 x B][COLOR=#FF0000]2[/COLOR][/B = 5,523,280
Time to go up for auction, before its too late;)
Or just earn them by playing the game and pay nothing.
Corrections:
-Demandable shards (vorpals, barkshield etc) are 30k~50k now and increasing. Not 20 k anymore.
-CW can hit 400,000 with the new droprate, since the ZEN cap is 500,000.
-Needed RP to make 1 perfect, isnt 750,000 it is 656,640k. ( 4 refined lessers + 2 refined normals + 1 refined greater).
- That can be argued. I left it at 20k, because recent increase probably not driven by complete understanding. Needed 256 for a perfect before. Now you need 32. Assumption should be a price decrease (or neutral) due to roughly constant supply and lowered demand.
-Won't argue this. Certainly possible that CWs will go to 400k. Maybe 500k. I find it unlikely since prayer farmers will just make lessers and sell them for less than the coal ward. Still, reasonable assumption for a worst-case scenario.
-Correct. I thought it took 11520 RP to refine a shard, but it takes 0. 656,640 + 8 * 11520 = 748,520. My post is corrected.
I am really left speechless at this kind of thing happening. If and when I quit this game it will be because cryptic seems to treat its customers like HAMSTER.
One thing pro-change people have in common is that they already got their perfects/r9,10 or 20kk AD hoarded somewhere. Do you not understand that no new players= death of an MMO? and what if 50% of casuals quit too? 60% of the current population+ 0 new blood will not carry the game for long. People who play 5 months+ and do not have 5kk AD for perfects aren't lazy, they just have work/families/things to do outside the game. MOST casuals that I know spent about a tenner every month(well, at least myself) on zen and most of them did not move past R6/7 and lesser/normal. So while I respect the opinion of veterans/high payers/heavy online players and by no means telling you to not express it, at the end of the day it does not reflect the opinion of overall playerbase and not even the majority of the playerbase.
With each expansion another money grab is added. This is change is just inline with the money grabbing of previous MOD1.
This time instead of "reworking" the most popular armor bonus they "reworked" enchants and make it much more expensive vs. cheaper for the consumer to make more $$.
0
ariella321Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Sorry if this has already been answered, but I had a question about the new upgrade process, and hadn't yet seen it mentioned.
If you are upgrading a weapon enchantment, I believe you need a second weapon enchantment (of the same quality) as a reagent/catalyst. Does the second weapon enchantment have to match the first one (such as 2 lesser flaming enchantments)? Or can you use a different type?
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2013
Reagents need to match. Shards used for refining points don't need to match.
- That can be argued. I left it at 20k, because recent increase probably not driven by complete understanding. Needed 256 for a perfect before. Now you need 32. Assumption should be a price decrease (or neutral) due to roughly constant supply and lowered demand.
-Won't argue this. Certainly possible that CWs will go to 400k. Maybe 500k. I find it unlikely since prayer farmers will just make lessers and sell them for less than the coal ward. Still, reasonable assumption for a worst-case scenario.
-Correct. I thought it took 11520 RP to refine a shard, but it takes 0. 656,640 + 8 * 11520 = 748,520. My post is corrected.
Well, they'll still be controlled by the sapphire on WB. But yes, I agree -- hopefully they won't change the 30k price or the 5k return.
You can't look at it expecting a decrease in price because less are needed overall. Needing 256 for a perfect is prohibitive to most people, so they simply don't bother, thus there is no demand from them. Dropping it down to a level they see as attainable can therefore actually increases the demand as it entices those people back into the market.
So with the recent drop to 540 refining points per unmatched Shard, these peak at 3240 AD, right? I'm glad I didn't go entirely berserk on the AH and bulk bought only up to 2k.
Sorry if this has already been answered, but I had a question about the new upgrade process, and hadn't yet seen it mentioned.
If you are upgrading a weapon enchantment, I believe you need a second weapon enchantment (of the same quality) as a reagent/catalyst. Does the second weapon enchantment have to match the first one (such as 2 lesser flaming enchantments)? Or can you use a different type?
Yes, the main enchantment and enchantment that is used as a reagent must be the same.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
0
kolbe11Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
SUGGESTION:
Make anything greater than a lesser armor/weapon enchantment BoA or BoP (Normal, Greater, Perfect). Their power is just too great and too unstable to be handled otherwise.
EDIT: Upon discussion with some guildies, simply introducing a "chance" for it to be BoA/BoP due to fusion semi-failure would be sufficient. IE: You would need to "crit" fusing them for it to be stable enough to become unbound.
REASON:
Farmers (including gold websites) sell these enchants for "high dollar" amounts, which is ridiculous. Forcing them to ONLY sell lesser enchants will result in a flooded market with a lowered ROI due to competition. Which should help starve them out to a lesser degree.
"It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
0
kimonkaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
One thing pro-change people have in common is that they already got their perfects/r9,10 or 20kk AD hoarded somewhere. Do you not understand that no new players= death of an MMO? and what if 50% of casuals quit too? 60% of the current population+ 0 new blood will not carry the game for long. People who play 5 months+ and do not have 5kk AD for perfects aren't lazy, they just have work/families/things to do outside the game. MOST casuals that I know spent about a tenner every month(well, at least myself) on zen and most of them did not move past R6/7 and lesser/normal. So while I respect the opinion of veterans/high payers/heavy online players and by no means telling you to not express it, at the end of the day it does not reflect the opinion of overall playerbase and not even the majority of the playerbase.
Amen xD.
Some day I don't even earn AD, I just really play according to what's the most fun right now (Which might not earn me a lot of AD) or a dungeon or 2 and that's it, which is fine by me. The price hike is a real bummer though , since I can't accumulate AD that quickly anymore.
Aside from removal costs (which at the end of the day you can only do so often before the fun subsides), this new system was intended to endear itself to a greater market. It seems it takes, within practical comparisons, a similar timeframe and similar costs.
Is the benefit/trump card/main act to draw people in only additional inventory free space by allowing all enchantment type to gain RP? Really?
This could be an expensive, tiring trip around the block.
Aside from removal costs (which at the end of the day you can only do so often before the fun subsides), this new system was intended to endear itself to a greater market. It seems it takes, within practical comparisons, a similar timeframe and similar costs.
Is the benefit/trump card/main act to draw people in only additional inventory free space by allowing all enchantment type to gain RP? Really?
This could be an expensive, tiring trip around the block.
Can you please say what you mean? With your text i don't understand what you want to say.
Can you please say what you mean? With your text i don't understand what you want to say.
He/She is saying that he/she believed the new system would allow a greater number of players to acquire high-end enchants, but from his/her understanding the new system is similar to the old system when it comes to the amount of time needed to get the enchants as well as resources spend.
So he/she is suggesting that the only real advantage is more inventory space.
Comments
Thus, the price of CWs may ultimately be driven by the cost of lessers/normals/etc. No one would buy 4 shards and pay 400k to fuse them if they can just buy the lesser for 150k from a prayer farmer. Just like no-one pays 400k for a coal now when they can be bought on AH for 150k.
If cryptic really wants to drive their cw sales, they should bind everything created w/ bound CWs.
Iyon the Dark
And this is the largest problem it doesn't matter how GOOD or Enjoyable it was for you to make if you cannot get your hands on the catalysts or appropriate marks to level past 5 then its still no better than the old system (creation wise) I love the un-slotting system and what that means long term. But the goal for every player here is to actually at some point be able to make top tier stones etc. without having to play 2 years to slot one character. We already grind for gear but what good is the gear if you cannot slot it. We don't want to spend all of our finances on 1 single stone or weapon enchant etc... it would be nice to be able to be competitive in a reasonable amount of time. There are so many things that people spend money on in this game this part doesn't need to be the tax that crumbles the fun.
So I just finished Cathedral of Madness and received the Silvery Enchantment Rank 5. At that time every enchantment I had slotted, but 1 was maxed in refinement points just waiting for Marks of Potency to be able to buff them to Rank 5. Changing these rewards (after level 15 at least) to being Marks of Potency (2x Minor in Neverdeath and 2x Lesser in Cathedral BoP would be fine) would be far more useful to characters now than the original Enchantments.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
- i always think that shard cant give more than 1000pt for refining.
- But Reagent are too too too expensive, stupidly too expensive. I hope drop rate will decrease the price with AH ...
Joshi tested on Owlbear with ~ 1100 coffers. Looks like the current rate is 15% and it's being reduced to 5%.
Pres Ward rate down from 85% to 30%.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?532641-Cryptic-OFFICIAL-Feedback-Thread-The-Coffers-of-Wondrous-Augmentation&p=6601861&viewfull=1#post6601861
Iyon the Dark
I thought it must be the R7
Corrections:
-Demandable shards (vorpals, barkshield etc) are 30k~50k now and increasing. Not 20 k anymore.
-CW can hit 400,000 with the new droprate, since the ZEN cap is 500,000.
-Needed RP to make 1 perfect, isnt 750,000 it is 656,640k. ( 4 refined lessers + 2 refined normals + 1 refined greater).
So cost wont be more expensive than 12 M AD.
If you calculate with old system and old drop rate:
256 x 20,000 + 85x 100,000 = 13.6 M AD. (As you mentioned)
So both are around the same price ( only 1.6M AD difference) at maximum prices.
Hopefully they wont change the price of the sapphire on WB, else prices will be uncontrolled.
32 x [30,000] + 15 x [400,000] + 10 x [100,000] + 656,640 x [6] = 11,899,840.
Sound bad, but...
If u bay all today, then:
32 x [30,000] + 15 x B][COLOR="#FF0000"]150,000[/COLOR][/B + 10 x [100,000] + 656,640 x B][COLOR="#FF0000"]2[/COLOR][/B = 5,523,280
Time to go up for auction, before its too late;)
Me too, but ppl crying that played 6 months, but not to farm wards for perfect
I do not understand how you can play 6 months and not earn 2,250,000 AD?
if 6 * 30 * 24000 = 4,320,000 AD
Newcomers - yes, almost impossible to make perfect
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Sorry, having 50 characters on a single account just to have a chance to earn at least 1 ward per month is not "playing a game".
- That can be argued. I left it at 20k, because recent increase probably not driven by complete understanding. Needed 256 for a perfect before. Now you need 32. Assumption should be a price decrease (or neutral) due to roughly constant supply and lowered demand.
-Won't argue this. Certainly possible that CWs will go to 400k. Maybe 500k. I find it unlikely since prayer farmers will just make lessers and sell them for less than the coal ward. Still, reasonable assumption for a worst-case scenario.
-Correct. I thought it took 11520 RP to refine a shard, but it takes 0. 656,640 + 8 * 11520 = 748,520. My post is corrected.
Well, they'll still be controlled by the sapphire on WB. But yes, I agree -- hopefully they won't change the 30k price or the 5k return.
Iyon the Dark
This time instead of "reworking" the most popular armor bonus they "reworked" enchants and make it much more expensive vs. cheaper for the consumer to make more $$.
If you are upgrading a weapon enchantment, I believe you need a second weapon enchantment (of the same quality) as a reagent/catalyst. Does the second weapon enchantment have to match the first one (such as 2 lesser flaming enchantments)? Or can you use a different type?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
You can't look at it expecting a decrease in price because less are needed overall. Needing 256 for a perfect is prohibitive to most people, so they simply don't bother, thus there is no demand from them. Dropping it down to a level they see as attainable can therefore actually increases the demand as it entices those people back into the market.
Yes, the main enchantment and enchantment that is used as a reagent must be the same.
Make anything greater than a lesser armor/weapon enchantment BoA or BoP (Normal, Greater, Perfect). Their power is just too great and too unstable to be handled otherwise.
EDIT: Upon discussion with some guildies, simply introducing a "chance" for it to be BoA/BoP due to fusion semi-failure would be sufficient. IE: You would need to "crit" fusing them for it to be stable enough to become unbound.
REASON:
Farmers (including gold websites) sell these enchants for "high dollar" amounts, which is ridiculous. Forcing them to ONLY sell lesser enchants will result in a flooded market with a lowered ROI due to competition. Which should help starve them out to a lesser degree.
Some day I don't even earn AD, I just really play according to what's the most fun right now (Which might not earn me a lot of AD) or a dungeon or 2 and that's it, which is fine by me. The price hike is a real bummer though , since I can't accumulate AD that quickly anymore.
Is the benefit/trump card/main act to draw people in only additional inventory free space by allowing all enchantment type to gain RP? Really?
This could be an expensive, tiring trip around the block.
Can you please say what you mean? With your text i don't understand what you want to say.
He/She is saying that he/she believed the new system would allow a greater number of players to acquire high-end enchants, but from his/her understanding the new system is similar to the old system when it comes to the amount of time needed to get the enchants as well as resources spend.
So he/she is suggesting that the only real advantage is more inventory space.
Seems a lot of work to free up some space.