You failed. You need less enchantment and wards as before. And the calculation with 100k Mark is invalid as you can post dropchances were very low.
for a rank 7 now on live u need 75 rank 4 plus 10 wards for the cheapest way: so for 2 rank 7: 150 rank 4 (22 extra enchantment at 1k) plus 20 wards (80k).
for a rank 7 now on live u need 75 rank 4 plus 10 wards for the cheapest way: so for 2 rank 7: 150 rank 4 (22 extra enchantment at 1k) plus 20 wards (80k).
And? With the new system you need less wards and less enchantment. Secondary you can use cheap enchantment too.
I just cant belive people are happy with the shards rp value being cut by 4, being that it is bad for everyone had u been stacking them or not. U cant farm shards as fast as enchants/runes , not even close. U just get shards from ur daily dark fey keys, DD chests and boss kills (not even guaranteed) that u have to win the roll with other 5 people, they should give good rp. specially considering how much stuff we have to refine now, 12 enchantments ( + 6 per pet), plus weapon + armour enchantment + 3 artifacts.
honestly with all these changes they have been doing i prefer the original setup where they just put a fee to the upgrade, kept the coal ward market cheap and had 2160 rp shards... that was cheaper than what we are ending up with.
I can understand devs have to walk a thin line to keep investors and customers happy but what really disapoints me is the way they do things, just slip undocumented changes into a patch and hope no one notices.... and when they do just save face conceding to canceling the upsetting changes and backstabbing again somehere else.
Imho what they should do is recover the coal ward zen market, like how preservations wards are, put them at a decent price so they actually sell them, say 300-400 zen mark while keeping the praybots out with the boa change. They will sell more zen if people find the price is fair, and actually in line with ah/maket value. I also think the actual zen to ad ratio would go up as people would be using it more frequently for the coal buying.
If they must put a bit more of an ad sink and make high end enchantmens a bit more expensive put a smaller refinement fee on them (r7s n up), maybe something like 10-15k r7, 20-25k r8, 30-35k r9, 50k r10 while Keeping the shards as the begining (2160 rp) that would make them somewhat more expensive, but still at point where people would still actualy be interested in upgrading beyond a r7-8 while keeping the lower end enchantments as accesible as they are to the lower end playerbase.
btw guys a lot of u ignore fact we need to charge enchants to can upgrade them for example my g vorpal need 300k+ points and one greater give 50k so i need 6 greater echants to charge it and i need 1 to fuse it so now i will need to use 8 greater enchants to can make perfect one and before i could do it with 4 and now also i will need this new marks and wards to so it is will be 3 times more expansive min
btw guys a lot of u ignore fact we need to charge enchants to can upgrade them for example my g vorpal need 300k+ points and one greater give 50k so i need 6 greater echants to charge it and i need 1 to fuse it so now i will need to use 8 greater enchants to can make perfect one and before i could do it with 4 and now also i will need this new marks and wards to so it is will be 3 times more expansive min
And you can use perfect vorpal to refine training stone rank 5 ... but its stupid.
And you can use perfect vorpal to refine training stone rank 5 ... but its stupid.
It's like:
If a tool last 1000 process of manufactoring and cost 1000 p and another tool last 2000 process and cost 5000 p, then i would use the tool for 5k instead twice of the 1k p right?(no other values matter) -.-***
a=b.. there is no diff in costs.. is only more complex
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kimonkaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
I just need it to be affordable enough to get to rank 7 ;-;. Going above is just insane because of the prices, regardless if whether the devs shaved off parts of the cost (Dat 20% chance of sucess). This seems like a viable system up until rank 7 though, let's hope the update makes the potency drop often enough.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
I just need it to be affordable enough to get to rank 7 ;-;. Going above is just insane because of the prices, regardless if whether the devs shaved off parts of the cost (Dat 20% chance of sucess). This seems like a viable system up until rank 7 though, let's hope the update makes the potency drop often enough.
It's actually the exact opposite: enchants past rank 7 will be much cheaper, but enchants before then will be much more expensive.
Fuse your 7s before module 2 hits.
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slambitMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 282Bounty Hunter
edited November 2013
yeah that stupid stupid high price on marks has got to go, it doesnt help new players at all, imo marks shouldnt be required until rank 7 and it would take the place of that 2nd enchantment needed to upgrade to R8.
And? With the new system you need less wards and less enchantment. Secondary you can use cheap enchantment too.
Seriously, just go ahead and calculate everything you need to make 1 perfect enchant / rank 8 enchant and compare it with current values of these on live shard and then compare it with the enchants you would do from before the ninja nerf to shards.
Or don't do that, because if you scroll some pages behind, you would see that some people (including myself) already did that and proved it is more expensive to do with the new system. Basic mathematics and economics concepts.
Even if you are going to use the same type of shards to make the enchant you want, you will still pay more. Because people will buy these shards like crazy which would decrease the supply on AH which would in return increase the price of these shards ( vorpal for example would become 40 k each instead of 20k since you need less and they get sold out quick).
Let me put it simpler,
IT is more expensive to make 1 perfect / rank 8 with the current preview shard changes, than the current system we have on live shard. Want a mathematical proof? search forums or do the math yourself.
Side note: there is nothing called "cheap enchants" anymore. Because every single enchant got higher value now because they can be used for refining anything and any type of other enchant. Supply and demand.
Enchants like plague fire and tenebrous don't have shards, so you cant benefit from the "matching bonus" unless you use more lesser enchants to refine the lesser enchant you want to upgrade. which is more expensive than combining 4 lessers.
Please think before you generalize things you have no clue about.
I said it from the start, the new system was worse then the old system and provided almost no improvement. Honestly the only thing they've done the even begins to fix the small issues with the old system was making enchant removal cost gold and a pretty small amount at that.
but that begs the question, why didn't they just lower the original AD cost? Why change stuff that didn't need to be changed? If they really want to make the new a truly kick *** system then I say they should do the following,
Keep the gold cost for enchant removal.
Keep the ability to refine already socketed enchants.
Remove the "ranking up before refining" system.
Remove the need for additional reagents.
It isn't that hard to do. I dont know from where or whom the devs got their information about what was wrong with the old system but this new system is a joke. Some advice for the devs, if you tire keeps going flat, just change the tire. Don't rebuild the whole car.
Can anyone tell me an approximate drop rate of green and blue marks? I did Dread Ring dailies 6 times on my HR and I haven't got a single green mark from skill nodes, so...
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited November 2013
There are two things that annoy me about the new system:
1) The steep increase in cost when going from level 5 to level 6.
2) The need for a second rank 7/8/9 - I find that a bit clumsy - I would prefer a higher cost (in AD or lower-level enchants) instead.
What I do really like, however, is the gold gost for removal and the ability to refine enchants that have already been socketed.
The new system is more expensive for rank 7 azure/radiant/dark, rank 8 silvery/runestones, and certain weapon/armor enchants at normal/greater/perfect (ie bronzewood). In other words, new system screws 90% of the game population, while making it easier for the super rich to get rank 10's and perfects. Well done.
The new system is more expensive for rank 7 azure/radiant/dark, rank 8 silvery/runestones, and certain weapon/armor enchants at normal/greater/perfect (ie bronzewood). In other words, new system screws 90% of the game population, while making it easier for the super rich to get rank 10's and perfects. Well done.
Because needed second epik stone for 8 / 9 /10. They must remove that for refinment cheaper, but not increase the points of refinement given by sharp
Funny thing is, this change wasnt mentioned in patch notes and no official answer about it yet -_-.
It's what we refer to as a "Ninja Patch", that's when they change something and they don't think anybody is going to notice so they don't have an official statement on it ready, which means that (if they are watching this thread) they are trying to figure out what to say to try to make the players happy without actually fixing it.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...] they don't think anybody is going to notice so they don't have an official statement on it ready, which means that [...]
That's a big insult to the developers, IMHO. You really believe, that they are that stupid to not know, that every player on Preview is currently watching the new Refinement system very closely? And hoped that we wouldn't notice?
The reason they ninja patch things sometimes is probably because they dont want ALL players raging in the forums. With a ninja patch, only a handful will notice the change and complain.
The point-nerf on shards sucks big time. I dont really care anymore, I got depressed.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That's a big insult to the developers, IMHO. You really believe, that they are that stupid to not know, that every player on Preview is currently watching the new Refinement system very closely? And hoped that we wouldn't notice?
Actually i think its quite the opposite. I feel it's insulting to the players for them to think we wouldn't notice and (rightfully IMHO) be pretty upset about it. Otherwise they would have put it in the patch notes or at least given a good reason for it.
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zanzy1975Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Wow! I need not 300 shards, but 1200 for perfect? Awesome!
I see in furture: 6/12 - price for shards=5-10k, price for CW=350k
Your reasoning is that the price will fall no economic justification, I can say that: if the demand will increase by 4 times!!!- respectively and the price will grow proportionately, may not be up to 10k (now in 2500 because agiotage) but it certainly 5k!
5000*1200=6mil AD! only shards!
Wait, now much more preferable to use native shards even vorpal!
150*20000=3mil Ad for vorpal
and 150*7000=1,05mil for soulforged for example... So that the system has become much easier and cheaper (sarcasm)
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wow! I need not 300 shards, but 1200 for perfect? Awesome!
I see in furture: 6/12 - price for shards=5-10k, price for CW=350k
Your reasoning is that the price will fall no economic justification, I can say that: if the demand will increase by 4 times!!!- respectively and the price will grow proportionately, may not be up to 10k (now in 2500 because agiotage) but it certainly 5k!
5000*1200=6mil AD! only shards!
Wait, now much more preferable to use native shards even vorpal!
150*20000=3mil Ad for vorpal
and 150*7000=1,05mil for soulforged for example... So that the system has become much easier and cheaper (sarcasm)
I dont really see shards ecoming that much more expensive because people will just use the cheapest L4 enchants instead.
Wow! I need not 300 shards, but 1200 for perfect? Awesome!
I see in furture: 6/12 - price for shards=5-10k, price for CW=350k
Your reasoning is that the price will fall no economic justification, I can say that: if the demand will increase by 4 times!!!- respectively and the price will grow proportionately, may not be up to 10k (now in 2500 because agiotage) but it certainly 5k!
5000*1200=6mil AD! only shards!
Wait, now much more preferable to use native shards even vorpal!
150*20000=3mil Ad for vorpal
and 150*7000=1,05mil for soulforged for example... So that the system has become much easier and cheaper (sarcasm)
All players who think new system will be more expensible than actually system ----> go to create/buy greater / perfect enchment NOW , you will sell it soon very well ....
Stop to post for nothing , and do what you think
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
Actually i think its quite the opposite. I feel it's insulting to the players for them to think we wouldn't notice and (rightfully IMHO) be pretty upset about it. Otherwise they would have put it in the patch notes or at least given a good reason for it.
So, you do believe that developers are flawless and have a hive mind, where everybody knows what everyone else is doing? That also means, that NW is bugfree--as they are not able to fail.
So, you do believe that developers are flawless and have a hive mind, where everybody knows what everyone else is doing? That also means, that NW is bugfree--as they are not able to fail.
I'm not really sure how you drew this conclusion. only 1 person (head of development) has to say "This is what we're changing, Let's see where it goes.", I do believe however that there is an ulterior motive behind it. But at this point either way it's still just speculation as we have heard nothing from anyone "in the know" of whats happening with it all i have to go on is my intuition (which has been wrong before).
Comments
for a rank 7 now on live u need 75 rank 4 plus 10 wards for the cheapest way: so for 2 rank 7: 150 rank 4 (22 extra enchantment at 1k) plus 20 wards (80k).
And? With the new system you need less wards and less enchantment. Secondary you can use cheap enchantment too.
honestly with all these changes they have been doing i prefer the original setup where they just put a fee to the upgrade, kept the coal ward market cheap and had 2160 rp shards... that was cheaper than what we are ending up with.
I can understand devs have to walk a thin line to keep investors and customers happy but what really disapoints me is the way they do things, just slip undocumented changes into a patch and hope no one notices.... and when they do just save face conceding to canceling the upsetting changes and backstabbing again somehere else.
Imho what they should do is recover the coal ward zen market, like how preservations wards are, put them at a decent price so they actually sell them, say 300-400 zen mark while keeping the praybots out with the boa change. They will sell more zen if people find the price is fair, and actually in line with ah/maket value. I also think the actual zen to ad ratio would go up as people would be using it more frequently for the coal buying.
If they must put a bit more of an ad sink and make high end enchantmens a bit more expensive put a smaller refinement fee on them (r7s n up), maybe something like 10-15k r7, 20-25k r8, 30-35k r9, 50k r10 while Keeping the shards as the begining (2160 rp) that would make them somewhat more expensive, but still at point where people would still actualy be interested in upgrading beyond a r7-8 while keeping the lower end enchantments as accesible as they are to the lower end playerbase.
And you can use perfect vorpal to refine training stone rank 5 ... but its stupid.
But that shard and rank 6 have equal refining point its stupid.
rank 5 = 540pt
shard = 1080pt
rank 6 = 2160pt
That would be an equal solution...
The pb is the second epik stone needed at rank 8 / 9 / 10 not shard s refining point (that cant stay at 2160pt)
It's like:
If a tool last 1000 process of manufactoring and cost 1000 p and another tool last 2000 process and cost 5000 p, then i would use the tool for 5k instead twice of the 1k p right?(no other values matter) -.-***
That's the same thinking your pointed out right.
It's actually the exact opposite: enchants past rank 7 will be much cheaper, but enchants before then will be much more expensive.
Fuse your 7s before module 2 hits.
Seriously, just go ahead and calculate everything you need to make 1 perfect enchant / rank 8 enchant and compare it with current values of these on live shard and then compare it with the enchants you would do from before the ninja nerf to shards.
Or don't do that, because if you scroll some pages behind, you would see that some people (including myself) already did that and proved it is more expensive to do with the new system. Basic mathematics and economics concepts.
Even if you are going to use the same type of shards to make the enchant you want, you will still pay more. Because people will buy these shards like crazy which would decrease the supply on AH which would in return increase the price of these shards ( vorpal for example would become 40 k each instead of 20k since you need less and they get sold out quick).
Let me put it simpler,
IT is more expensive to make 1 perfect / rank 8 with the current preview shard changes, than the current system we have on live shard. Want a mathematical proof? search forums or do the math yourself.
Side note: there is nothing called "cheap enchants" anymore. Because every single enchant got higher value now because they can be used for refining anything and any type of other enchant. Supply and demand.
Enchants like plague fire and tenebrous don't have shards, so you cant benefit from the "matching bonus" unless you use more lesser enchants to refine the lesser enchant you want to upgrade. which is more expensive than combining 4 lessers.
Please think before you generalize things you have no clue about.
but that begs the question, why didn't they just lower the original AD cost? Why change stuff that didn't need to be changed? If they really want to make the new a truly kick *** system then I say they should do the following,
Keep the gold cost for enchant removal.
Keep the ability to refine already socketed enchants.
Remove the "ranking up before refining" system.
Remove the need for additional reagents.
It isn't that hard to do. I dont know from where or whom the devs got their information about what was wrong with the old system but this new system is a joke. Some advice for the devs, if you tire keeps going flat, just change the tire. Don't rebuild the whole car.
1) The steep increase in cost when going from level 5 to level 6.
2) The need for a second rank 7/8/9 - I find that a bit clumsy - I would prefer a higher cost (in AD or lower-level enchants) instead.
What I do really like, however, is the gold gost for removal and the ability to refine enchants that have already been socketed.
Because needed second epik stone for 8 / 9 /10. They must remove that for refinment cheaper, but not increase the points of refinement given by sharp
It's what we refer to as a "Ninja Patch", that's when they change something and they don't think anybody is going to notice so they don't have an official statement on it ready, which means that (if they are watching this thread) they are trying to figure out what to say to try to make the players happy without actually fixing it.
The point-nerf on shards sucks big time. I dont really care anymore, I got depressed.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Actually i think its quite the opposite. I feel it's insulting to the players for them to think we wouldn't notice and (rightfully IMHO) be pretty upset about it. Otherwise they would have put it in the patch notes or at least given a good reason for it.
I see in furture: 6/12 - price for shards=5-10k, price for CW=350k
Your reasoning is that the price will fall no economic justification, I can say that: if the demand will increase by 4 times!!!- respectively and the price will grow proportionately, may not be up to 10k (now in 2500 because agiotage) but it certainly 5k!
5000*1200=6mil AD! only shards!
Wait, now much more preferable to use native shards even vorpal!
150*20000=3mil Ad for vorpal
and 150*7000=1,05mil for soulforged for example...
So that the system has become much easier and cheaper (sarcasm)
I dont really see shards ecoming that much more expensive because people will just use the cheapest L4 enchants instead.
All players who think new system will be more expensible than actually system ----> go to create/buy greater / perfect enchment NOW , you will sell it soon very well ....
Stop to post for nothing , and do what you think
Rank 5 cost 1000 / 1200 AD ...
Calculate with this , and your conclusion will be different...
At one moment we can see thousand 99 stack of stone rank 5 and 20 stack of shard in AH
but Many players organises inflation, price grow continually because they buy all, but they must sell them at one moment ...
*facepalm*
I'm not really sure how you drew this conclusion. only 1 person (head of development) has to say "This is what we're changing, Let's see where it goes.", I do believe however that there is an ulterior motive behind it. But at this point either way it's still just speculation as we have heard nothing from anyone "in the know" of whats happening with it all i have to go on is my intuition (which has been wrong before).