Could you show us a video of a full 1v1 with tene + barkshield. Barkshield only helps with the first intial burst, but tene's can proc again within 1 second of each other.
Thanks for taking the time to do this, Gerfty. I really do appreciate it. It definitely shows 1) Tennys all procing at once and 2) whether it's a bug or not, the Barkshield absorbing all of the necrotic damage.
Could you show us a video of a full 1v1 with tene + barkshield. Barkshield only helps with the first intial burst, but tene's can proc again within 1 second of each other.
Ideally, that's what I wanted as well, but I'm very appreciate of CD taking the time to make this video regardless. In a normal combat situation then, it seems that Barkshield will help with the initial burst only, which is definitely better than nothing. Since Barkshield reforms every 8 seconds, and Tennys proc every 20 (after the initial procs aryoux showed us), I suspect it may not be the end-all-be-all counter to Tenebrous. Excited to see it played out in an actual PVP match.
Thanks again, Gerfty, for taking the time to post the footage.
No one has yet produced a video proving Barkshield's effectiveness against Tenebrous. It seems more likely that Tenny users are promoting the idea in hope that their favorite enchantment will not get nerfed.
Of course they are. There are also many more situations where soulforge is superior to barkshield so you are gimping yourself just in hopes of negating tenebrous and some smaller attacks. I can see a viable premade strategy being to have the TRs quickly use their dagger attacks on someone to eat away their barkshield and then let a GF tene burst them.
You would have to pray for the stars to align to for barkshield to fully negate tenebrous burst.
You claim you are the premier enchant tester on the PTR and you haven't even tested barkshield/tenes?
Im sorry if my IRL schedule cannot fit your tight demands for testing. Please leave your complaint about my schedule with our complaints department, we will get back to you in 4-6 nevers....
( that is a troll btw Gerft in case you need a reference point )
Of course they are. There are also many more situations where soulforge is superior to barkshield so you are gimping yourself just in hopes of negating tenebrous and some smaller attacks. I can see a viable premade strategy being to have the TRs quickly use their dagger attacks on someone to eat away their barkshield and then let a GF tene burst them.
You would have to pray for the stars to align to for barkshield to fully negate tenebrous burst.
Agreed. The video shows Barkshield absorbing the initial burst. That's decent, but definitely not the amazing counter that Tenebrous users claim it to be. I watch as many PVP matches as I can of guilds like Lemonade Stand, Complaints Department, and (recently) The Enemy Team. I don't see Barkshield being used. Negation and Soulforged are still the primary choices. That says a lot to me.
So went and tested other sources of necrotic damage (Terror/Lifedrinker) and BOTH of those sources of necro damage ARE affected by DR/Deflect/Dodge.
So what my guess is that they are looking at is making tenebrous damage just like all other sources of necro damage.
The only two things I would caution is that if you can dodge tenebrous enchant procs and it will use the CD, then you need to make them so they only proc one at a time. This would allow someone to dodge one of the procs but not ALL of the procs thus making them useless.
Since you cant choose WHEN they proc it could be a little unfair to have all of them proc at once on a dodged attack.
CONCLUSION: Make them ONLY proc off at wills/encounters and ONLY 1 can proc at a time.
Also, since they are receiving a nerf in the form of DR/deflect/dodge maybe bringing the CD back down a little to make the enchant damage not heavily nerfed from these changes. This would also help with the dodgeability.
CONCLUSION: Bring the CD back down some and make it a HARD CD.
So went and tested other sources of necrotic damage (Terror/Lifedrinker) and BOTH of those sources of necro damage ARE affected by DR/Deflect/Dodge.
That is completely untrue. Yes the hit can be deflected but the enchantment damage still goes through, no other enchantment damage can be deflected. I mean honestly think about that lol, the magical necrotic damage that comes off an enchant is somehow deflected by your sword?? doesn't even make sense =P
No barkshield does not absorb CC, if you are mounted and get hit for 0 because of barkshield it doesn't count toward your 5 hits before getting dismounted though.
I can't believe all the crying about that video, it proved that barkshield will absorb ALL tene and still people are whining that it's not true. Also I find that in combat (as a CW) my barkshield eats tene's all the time, more often than not honestly. For a TR or CW barkshield is amazing and definitely better than SF unless all you do is pugs.
Also you posted that 2nd tene proc can happen anywhere between 1-20 seconds, I have never seen my 2nd proc occur in less than 15 seconds in a pvp match, I don't know if it's different with training dummies or something but getting a tene proc < 10 seconds after the first just doesn't happen (for me at least).
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
That is completely untrue. Yes the hit can be deflected but the enchantment damage still goes through, no other enchantment damage can be deflected. I mean honestly think about that lol, the magical necrotic damage that comes off an enchant is somehow deflected by your sword?? doesn't even make sense =P
Like I said. Tested this last night with different levels of DR and ARP.
BOTH DR affected this, deflect also did AND arp affected the values. I wont argue this because I spent hours on the PTR testing different things you can do it for yourself if you dont believe me.
About deflect. who uses tenes i think have noticed that the damages sometimes have the "deflected" arrow. which means they were deflected; however, the tenes damage will go through even when deflected.
probably there is something wrong in it
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
That is completely untrue. Yes the hit can be deflected but the enchantment damage still goes through, no other enchantment damage can be deflected. I mean honestly think about that lol, the magical necrotic damage that comes off an enchant is somehow deflected by your sword?? doesn't even make sense =P
No barkshield does not absorb CC, if you are mounted and get hit for 0 because of barkshield it doesn't count toward your 5 hits before getting dismounted though.
I can't believe all the crying about that video, it proved that barkshield will absorb ALL tene and still people are whining that it's not true. Also I find that in combat (as a CW) my barkshield eats tene's all the time, more often than not honestly. For a TR or CW barkshield is amazing and definitely better than SF unless all you do is pugs.
Also you posted that 2nd tene proc can happen anywhere between 1-20 seconds, I have never seen my 2nd proc occur in less than 15 seconds in a pvp match, I don't know if it's different with training dummies or something but getting a tene proc < 10 seconds after the first just doesn't happen (for me at least).
Barkshield is good for TRs as they can easily regenerate the stacks every time they go stealth, but for CWs I'm still finding soulforge to be more effective. The number of players with tenebrous enchants are minuscule in comparison to those that don't have it. Soul forge will save a CWs bacon in more cases than barkshield will. Your barkshield will be eaten through immediately if you get focused. At least with sf you have a chance to survive a lot of those situations.
About deflect. who uses tenes i think have noticed that the damages sometimes have the "deflected" arrow. which means they were deflected; however, the tenes damage will go through even when deflected.
probably there is something wrong in it
Honestly it doesnt surprise me at all. Like I said, I was curious to see other necro damage, I always assumed and even argued with a guild member that all necro damage cuts through DR and deflect and was CONVINCED it doesnt play a roll in necrotic damage, all until I tested it ALOT this weeked.
If you would like to prove me wrong, I would LOVE to see the data/ss around how necro goes through all DR and deflect, but from my testing it does not and ONLY tenebrous' necrotic damage does this.
It doesnt surprise me that tenebrous has not been working as intended AND that they havnt really looked into it either. The fact that it doesnt behave like all other sources of necro damage to me, shows that its NOT working as intended and they will probably find the error in their coding and fix that, which is why the Dev made the post about it not factoring in those three things that affect other sources of necro damage currently.
My biggest concern, however, is actually not about deflect and DR but with dodge.
Dodge is a mechanic that honestly you cant avoid as an attacker. Since your tenebrous can proc off ANY attack and all at once, and the fact that you can dodge attacks AFTER the animation hits because it seems to be a serverside "connet", if all of them proc off an attack that was dodged through no fault of the user, they get heavily penalized...
Thats why I think that if they allow dodge to USE a tenebrous proc, they need to make it so only 1 can proc at a time so at worst, the attack that was dodged only uses 1 proc instead of all six or seven at once.
This would also address some of the "burst" issues with the build. However if you do this, that IS a major nerf to the enchant and I would really suggest looking at dropping the CD down to compensate for not only the loss of damage via deflect/DR (which I think is fair) but the loss of damage from the burst ability of the enchant - which made it so strong in pvp.
If you alienate the enchant from PVP by just reducing the damage and not assigning it some sort of compensation in other ways, pvpers wont use it and neither will Pve-ers...
Also my experience is that since they are all individual procs (regardless of how many do at once or not), it would follow that each proc gets its own roll for deflect. I am fine with deflect AND DR assuming it operates like all other necro at this point in time where ARP factors into how much damage necrotic damage deals, which gives a trade off of pure teneb stacking versus a hybrid approach of darks+tenebs etc.
But overall, like I suggested, it will be a big nerf to the enchant for certain builds (CW Tenebs I think fair the worst from this change) so to bring it back "in line" I would hope that the DPS of the enchant would be slightly improved.
heck, one way to make it viable in PVE alone is that if an encounter is an AOE encounter and it were to proc a tenebrous proc, make it hit ALL targets that got hit with that encounter. That would give it viability in PVE without really hurting PVP at all....
Then the proposed changes above so you dont get 7 tenebs proccing off ONE aoe attack (just one at a time) makes it balanced for both PVE/PVP and still keeps it effective in the game....
i used lifedrinker for a long time in Beholder, i recently sold mine since i wanted to upgrade more my gwf.
what I noticed when used it checking the logs my "necrotic" wep dmg didnt ignore all dr...
it seems tho, that is hurts more than other enchantments.
I think both necrotic and radiant dmg ignores more than the rest, but i didn't see necrotic dmg ignoring 100% dr to be honest.
dodging all procs would rly hurt bad the enchantment. but i guess if they dont go through deflect or dr, it would make sense it be able to be dodged.
i dont know, if they do it maybe they should reduce the cooldown of tenes a bit, or even better, make it be counted as "base hp" dmg. and even if you are dying or half life its still the hp base amount that should count.
i think it would be a way to make it work nice without hurt it too bad.
i am not using full tenes anymore, and I have been enjoying my new setup very much.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Yeah I like the Base HP idea as well. Regardless of current HP.
I also like dropping the CD and making only 1 proc at once that way if its dodge-able it wont be a big deal to dodge 1 of them.
Since its dropping the damage a TON, id love to see a shorter CD as well, all very good ideas here....
Well the numbers I ran last night, a GWF with max con (about 15% arp) against my 46% DR GF was doing about 30-35% LESS damage than it would be with no DR. So about right....
Ive tried a few builds without tenebrous enchants and post nerf there will be other options, however i would be nice to see them balance this enchant without breaking it. I think its definitely very powerful and clearly not working as intended right now...
Comments
Iyon the Dark
this..........
Are you color blind?
ARE CAPABLE OF NOT BEING AN AS$ FOR 3 SECONDS....
Your enchant blocks any color graphics that are noticeable.
After a double check...I stand by my statement...your armor is not Black and gold...
Your armor is more grey than anything.... So yes your sh*t has been revoked.. i can mail you some black and purple dyes to finish your outfit...
maybe some diarrhea brown and white might be more your speed...
orange stripes and black maybe ?
You claim you are the premier enchant tester on the PTR and you haven't even tested barkshield/tenes?
It's interesting how all your b.s. comes to light the more you post. Can't keep those lies straight :X
This is what the game has for black and gold dyes. Keep trolling.
Thanks for taking the time to do this, Gerfty. I really do appreciate it. It definitely shows 1) Tennys all procing at once and 2) whether it's a bug or not, the Barkshield absorbing all of the necrotic damage.
Ideally, that's what I wanted as well, but I'm very appreciate of CD taking the time to make this video regardless. In a normal combat situation then, it seems that Barkshield will help with the initial burst only, which is definitely better than nothing. Since Barkshield reforms every 8 seconds, and Tennys proc every 20 (after the initial procs aryoux showed us), I suspect it may not be the end-all-be-all counter to Tenebrous. Excited to see it played out in an actual PVP match.
Thanks again, Gerfty, for taking the time to post the footage.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Of course they are. There are also many more situations where soulforge is superior to barkshield so you are gimping yourself just in hopes of negating tenebrous and some smaller attacks. I can see a viable premade strategy being to have the TRs quickly use their dagger attacks on someone to eat away their barkshield and then let a GF tene burst them.
You would have to pray for the stars to align to for barkshield to fully negate tenebrous burst.
bro... you REALLY need to stop thinking everytime someone talks to you , you get defensive thinking they are trolling you...
What a crumpled world that must be...
You do realize people can talk to you normally and make jokes and it NOT be a troll... its called casual fun...
I would have hoped you realized you can make black and gold from black dye and blessed gold or Nightmare dye packs
Im sorry if my IRL schedule cannot fit your tight demands for testing. Please leave your complaint about my schedule with our complaints department, we will get back to you in 4-6 nevers....
( that is a troll btw Gerft in case you need a reference point )
well said...
Agreed. The video shows Barkshield absorbing the initial burst. That's decent, but definitely not the amazing counter that Tenebrous users claim it to be. I watch as many PVP matches as I can of guilds like Lemonade Stand, Complaints Department, and (recently) The Enemy Team. I don't see Barkshield being used. Negation and Soulforged are still the primary choices. That says a lot to me.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Haha, okay.
Short version post translation: lets balance tenes by making more things unbalanced/op.
Dood the cold war ended.... wake the hell up.
I've never noticed mine preventing say a CWs entangling force from holding me while I had charges up.
I've never noticed my barkshield eating CC either, or if it did, I shrugged it off as CC resistance. This may need to be tested too.
So what my guess is that they are looking at is making tenebrous damage just like all other sources of necro damage.
The only two things I would caution is that if you can dodge tenebrous enchant procs and it will use the CD, then you need to make them so they only proc one at a time. This would allow someone to dodge one of the procs but not ALL of the procs thus making them useless.
Since you cant choose WHEN they proc it could be a little unfair to have all of them proc at once on a dodged attack.
CONCLUSION: Make them ONLY proc off at wills/encounters and ONLY 1 can proc at a time.
Also, since they are receiving a nerf in the form of DR/deflect/dodge maybe bringing the CD back down a little to make the enchant damage not heavily nerfed from these changes. This would also help with the dodgeability.
CONCLUSION: Bring the CD back down some and make it a HARD CD.
That is completely untrue. Yes the hit can be deflected but the enchantment damage still goes through, no other enchantment damage can be deflected. I mean honestly think about that lol, the magical necrotic damage that comes off an enchant is somehow deflected by your sword?? doesn't even make sense =P
No barkshield does not absorb CC, if you are mounted and get hit for 0 because of barkshield it doesn't count toward your 5 hits before getting dismounted though.
I can't believe all the crying about that video, it proved that barkshield will absorb ALL tene and still people are whining that it's not true. Also I find that in combat (as a CW) my barkshield eats tene's all the time, more often than not honestly. For a TR or CW barkshield is amazing and definitely better than SF unless all you do is pugs.
Also you posted that 2nd tene proc can happen anywhere between 1-20 seconds, I have never seen my 2nd proc occur in less than 15 seconds in a pvp match, I don't know if it's different with training dummies or something but getting a tene proc < 10 seconds after the first just doesn't happen (for me at least).
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Like I said. Tested this last night with different levels of DR and ARP.
BOTH DR affected this, deflect also did AND arp affected the values. I wont argue this because I spent hours on the PTR testing different things you can do it for yourself if you dont believe me.
LOL....
About deflect. who uses tenes i think have noticed that the damages sometimes have the "deflected" arrow. which means they were deflected; however, the tenes damage will go through even when deflected.
probably there is something wrong in it
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Barkshield is good for TRs as they can easily regenerate the stacks every time they go stealth, but for CWs I'm still finding soulforge to be more effective. The number of players with tenebrous enchants are minuscule in comparison to those that don't have it. Soul forge will save a CWs bacon in more cases than barkshield will. Your barkshield will be eaten through immediately if you get focused. At least with sf you have a chance to survive a lot of those situations.
RIP tenebrous... You will not be missed.
Honestly it doesnt surprise me at all. Like I said, I was curious to see other necro damage, I always assumed and even argued with a guild member that all necro damage cuts through DR and deflect and was CONVINCED it doesnt play a roll in necrotic damage, all until I tested it ALOT this weeked.
If you would like to prove me wrong, I would LOVE to see the data/ss around how necro goes through all DR and deflect, but from my testing it does not and ONLY tenebrous' necrotic damage does this.
It doesnt surprise me that tenebrous has not been working as intended AND that they havnt really looked into it either. The fact that it doesnt behave like all other sources of necro damage to me, shows that its NOT working as intended and they will probably find the error in their coding and fix that, which is why the Dev made the post about it not factoring in those three things that affect other sources of necro damage currently.
My biggest concern, however, is actually not about deflect and DR but with dodge.
Dodge is a mechanic that honestly you cant avoid as an attacker. Since your tenebrous can proc off ANY attack and all at once, and the fact that you can dodge attacks AFTER the animation hits because it seems to be a serverside "connet", if all of them proc off an attack that was dodged through no fault of the user, they get heavily penalized...
Thats why I think that if they allow dodge to USE a tenebrous proc, they need to make it so only 1 can proc at a time so at worst, the attack that was dodged only uses 1 proc instead of all six or seven at once.
This would also address some of the "burst" issues with the build. However if you do this, that IS a major nerf to the enchant and I would really suggest looking at dropping the CD down to compensate for not only the loss of damage via deflect/DR (which I think is fair) but the loss of damage from the burst ability of the enchant - which made it so strong in pvp.
If you alienate the enchant from PVP by just reducing the damage and not assigning it some sort of compensation in other ways, pvpers wont use it and neither will Pve-ers...
Also my experience is that since they are all individual procs (regardless of how many do at once or not), it would follow that each proc gets its own roll for deflect. I am fine with deflect AND DR assuming it operates like all other necro at this point in time where ARP factors into how much damage necrotic damage deals, which gives a trade off of pure teneb stacking versus a hybrid approach of darks+tenebs etc.
But overall, like I suggested, it will be a big nerf to the enchant for certain builds (CW Tenebs I think fair the worst from this change) so to bring it back "in line" I would hope that the DPS of the enchant would be slightly improved.
heck, one way to make it viable in PVE alone is that if an encounter is an AOE encounter and it were to proc a tenebrous proc, make it hit ALL targets that got hit with that encounter. That would give it viability in PVE without really hurting PVP at all....
Then the proposed changes above so you dont get 7 tenebs proccing off ONE aoe attack (just one at a time) makes it balanced for both PVE/PVP and still keeps it effective in the game....
-my2cents
what I noticed when used it checking the logs my "necrotic" wep dmg didnt ignore all dr...
it seems tho, that is hurts more than other enchantments.
I think both necrotic and radiant dmg ignores more than the rest, but i didn't see necrotic dmg ignoring 100% dr to be honest.
dodging all procs would rly hurt bad the enchantment. but i guess if they dont go through deflect or dr, it would make sense it be able to be dodged.
i dont know, if they do it maybe they should reduce the cooldown of tenes a bit, or even better, make it be counted as "base hp" dmg. and even if you are dying or half life its still the hp base amount that should count.
i think it would be a way to make it work nice without hurt it too bad.
i am not using full tenes anymore, and I have been enjoying my new setup very much.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I also like dropping the CD and making only 1 proc at once that way if its dodge-able it wont be a big deal to dodge 1 of them.
Since its dropping the damage a TON, id love to see a shorter CD as well, all very good ideas here....
Well the numbers I ran last night, a GWF with max con (about 15% arp) against my 46% DR GF was doing about 30-35% LESS damage than it would be with no DR. So about right....
Ive tried a few builds without tenebrous enchants and post nerf there will be other options, however i would be nice to see them balance this enchant without breaking it. I think its definitely very powerful and clearly not working as intended right now...