I don't like how you off handedly roleplayers with this offensive quote. Allowing people to race change would ruin my immersion and most likely kill the game entirely.
Bringing up money is also confusing - I think Perfect World are more concerned with building the perfect Dungeons and Dragon MMO than their profits.
Is that 2nd part sarcasm? because its hard to tell in type chat. PW is a for profit company, if they can create an authentic experience while making max profit, then great, but their goal is profit not authenticity. It has to be, they are not a charity. That is not cold or cruel of them, it is smart, so that they can continue to exist as a company.
Also, not that I'm for it, but how would other people being able to race change ruin your experience of the game? I admit that in a tabletop game having one of my companions suddenly morph from a foul-mouthed, perpetually drunk, tubby dwarf cleric into a bodacious and pious half elf cleric might throw me off my game, but in an online MMO I can take it in stride.
Immersion into an online game is for most people not on the same level as immersion into a tabletop game as in tabletop games the entire visual world, characters, and personalities are created in your imagination. So in terms of creative prowess you are much more immersed in a tabletop game. Whereas in an online game many of these factors are provided and decided for you.
To say it would ruin your immersion of the game, considering your experience is limited to that of the people you roleplay with, is incredibly selfish. It's as if you consider the other players in the game as little more than world filler.
As for the idea of offering racial changes, meh, I could live with it or without it. I'd prefer an option to dual spec a single character as a priority over racial changes, but I'm not against it.
Yaay, 38 pages and absolutely no response from Cryptic who seems to hope this thread and subject will fade into obscurity and die.
Good business practice, guys. :rolleyes:
Way to be overly judgmental here. All you have to base this opinion on are your own personal wants and biases. You know nothing of whats going on behind the scenes.
Perhaps, not being able to change race is a restriction placed on them by the license holder. As near as I am aware, you cant do this in DDO either. So commenting on it would be foolish. Any comment that puts the license holder in a poor light, would be a bad move.
Perhaps, it has been considered and debated and after a cost/benefit analysis. As large as this topic is, it is still a mere fraction of a fraction of the games population. You cant even get the entire forum to agree with this, and the forum is a tiny minority of the game. Commenting on that would also be foolish. I still recall the backlash and burn from STO when the PVP community asked for fixes and were told, they were insignificant. Granted, it was simply a way of explaining where they fit in the priorities list. But it came off poorly and ultimately caused more harm then good.
Perhaps it could simply be a technical limitation. There might be hard values and encoding that is attached to a character at creation that simply cant be changed without extensive reworking. This can go back to the whole cost/benefit thing. Or it could be a hard limitation of the engine. Keep in mind, while CO might allow it due to its open free form system. Race and class changing is not allowed in STO and have never been an option. And it works in a more similar manner to NW. And once again, commenting on this would be foolish. No one wants to highlight the limitations of their product. Especially a product that grows and develops and changes over time. What might be impossible, might become doable after a major revision. Conversely what might of been possible might not be later due to unforeseen limitations. Why would anyone lock themselves to a statement on an ever changing platform?
Simple put no comment, means simply that. Any hate, malice, or lack of ethics perceived are just that, perceptions based on disappointment and bias. I expect, in a majority of cases like this. The company would love to comment on such things. But simply cant either due to how comments can be taken as hard gospel or as troll bait. Or simply due to the ever changing nature of games like this, a hard statement becomes a terrible anchor to be chained to.
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jadetoraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 116Bounty Hunter
Way to be overly judgmental here. All you have to base this opinion on are your own personal wants and biases. You know nothing of whats going on behind the scenes.
Perhaps, not being able to change race is a restriction placed on them by the license holder. As near as I am aware, you cant do this in DDO either. So commenting on it would be foolish. Any comment that puts the license holder in a poor light, would be a bad move.
Perhaps, it has been considered and debated and after a cost/benefit analysis. As large as this topic is, it is still a mere fraction of a fraction of the games population. You cant even get the entire forum to agree with this, and the forum is a tiny minority of the game. Commenting on that would also be foolish. I still recall the backlash and burn from STO when the PVP community asked for fixes and were told, they were insignificant. Granted, it was simply a way of explaining where they fit in the priorities list. But it came off poorly and ultimately caused more harm then good.
Perhaps it could simply be a technical limitation. There might be hard values and encoding that is attached to a character at creation that simply cant be changed without extensive reworking. This can go back to the whole cost/benefit thing. Or it could be a hard limitation of the engine. Keep in mind, while CO might allow it due to its open free form system. Race and class changing is not allowed in STO and have never been an option. And it works in a more similar manner to NW. And once again, commenting on this would be foolish. No one wants to highlight the limitations of their product. Especially a product that grows and develops and changes over time. What might be impossible, might become doable after a major revision. Conversely what might of been possible might not be later due to unforeseen limitations. Why would anyone lock themselves to a statement on an ever changing platform?
Simple put no comment, means simply that. Any hate, malice, or lack of ethics perceived are just that, perceptions based on disappointment and bias. I expect, in a majority of cases like this. The company would love to comment on such things. But simply cant either due to how comments can be taken as hard gospel or as troll bait. Or simply due to the ever changing nature of games like this, a hard statement becomes a terrible anchor to be chained to.
No. They're perceptions based on Cryptic's past performance in their other titles and repeatedly ignoring their players wants and desires even when they're thrown into their faces.
Contrary to your evident belief, this isn't the first time Cryptic's done the same things. You must be new here. Welcome to reality.
No. They're perceptions based on Cryptic's past performance in their other titles and repeatedly ignoring their players wants and desires even when they're thrown into their faces.
Contrary to your evident belief, this isn't the first time Cryptic's done the same things. You must be new here. Welcome to reality.
I wasn't aware Cryptic, or any game developer for that matter, was obligated to give into any want or demand by the player base. Its their game, they see the stats and metrics we don't. They have done the research we haven't. They are in a much better position to decide how best to profit from and maintain their game.
We don't have to agree with, or even like it, or even understand it. However, ranting about it, being bitter about it, and stamping your feet because they didn't cave to your wants. Wont change one single thing.
All the wanting, pleading, ranting, and rage has yet to produce a foundry for CO. And this topic is no where near as wanted. Continuing to berate this issue and venting your disappointment and bitterness is not going to change any minds.
i'm sure they stopped reading this thread about page 5.
now I will say a LOT of things I personally have suggested on these forums have happened not that I was the only one suggesting them. of course they did not happen right after I suggested them either.
back in the beta weekends I suggested alchemy and player made dye-packs.
in the big rogue discussion I suggested maybe give a buff when they do a big nerf ie give rogues some sort of teleport to make up for the crit loss without affecting dps (yep that's my fault)
Im sure race changes will either happen or they wont and in both cases people will be upset. but at this point we are all just beating a dead horse about it after 40 pages. (hides her cat o' nine)
ps I heard they were working on a foundry for CO to be released early next year or so.
I admit that in a tabletop game having one of my companions suddenly morph from a foul-mouthed, perpetually drunk, tubby dwarf cleric into a bodacious and pious half elf cleric might throw me off my game, but in an online MMO I can take it in stride.
Assuming the player is RPing consistently, wouldn't they actually end up a foul-mouthed, perpetually drunk and rapidly weight-gaining half elf cleric? Few of the traditional tabletop race change means alter one's personality.
Assuming the player is RPing consistently, wouldn't they actually end up a foul-mouthed, perpetually drunk and rapidly weight-gaining half elf cleric? Few of the traditional tabletop race change means alter one's personality.
Dunno about the race change. I have a GF half-elf lol. Never saw any other half-elf at all (not saying about GF ) I'm fine with my race.
But rerolling initial stats is important. DO WANT! :rolleyes:
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lurujMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
There is nothing "basic" about race changes - in fact, as long as the game pretends to have any relationship to D&D, a race change is a pretty unnatural thing.
Sure some people may want this, but I think the great majority couldn't care less.
yep. just like the requests for transmutes to accumulate so you have different skins available to you (transmutation is a destructive process)... being able to change your race or re-roll your character after creation is very un-d&d. i'd be very surprised if this option was made available.
Its fine all you got to do is buy a name change and a look change make your current character an entirely different character then remake your character as you like it, yeah it wont have all the outfits and pets that you bought, And you a lot of those transmutes that were just perfect for the character will be useless, and that nightmare you got will forever be on an mule character and you'd have to regrind all the levels. but at least youll have that race you wanted.
In a lot of cases some races and classes just aren't available when you make a character. when they become available you have to just scrap it all and restart. if they don't want to add a race-change maybe we can have some sort of inheritance program for a flat fee 500k ad all your titles/gear/money/pets/items/bankslots go to a newly made character with same name. and the old one is destroyed. its like transmuting for characters....
or make anything bound tradable to your own account via an account bank which you can buy extra slots for. All limited edition titles ie events/contests/promos should be account-wide. this way its not as painful to restart. and it adds more value to the Account so people will be less likely to have multiple accounts.
Rerolling base stats should probably be an entirely different purchace. If they do add race chnge it can be included in the fee. Like many other games often will throw in a free appearance change with race changes. but the stat roll arguments are more a min max thing and often have very little to do with rp.
but officially im FOR premium changes of any kind race, gender, class, stat, using dyes on pets...ect. and flor the record I have a half-elf Rogue which is generally considered the WORST choice from min maxig pov. Not that I would change that character. (unless im doing the whole change name/appearance thing to get the name back)
one thing that you guys aren't really thinking about is there is the possibility that once the shards merge, some of those "character bound" items could be changed to "account bound". and in the realm of any game, where can you create a character, level it to cap and then go back and change the core of that character? why not allow the changing of class, too, if you're going to allow the change of race? it just doesn't make any logical sense.
Race change, yes and no. First no - its a RPG, your char can change clothes, get experience, learn and improve. It can even change name, thats nothing strange. Char can also change apperance, all of this is fine and totally "legit" if we take RPG as some kind of fantasy version of real world. In such "fantasy reality" race change shouldnt be allowed, char is a char, race and gender are "given" once and shouldnt be changed.
And yes - it would help some players like creator of this topic or me myself. I have Wiz at lvl 57, it my first char created in this game. I made it following some guide where obviously Tiefling was adviced as best race to create CW. And i admit indeed its a good choice but... excitation and "coolnes" at moment of cretion my first char, in time getchanged into mature "rpg" play hehe. Now i would like to have my wizard as in my imagination is - old HUMAN with grey hair, who spent all his life studying books in library. No matter how many "change apperance" tokens i would buy, i wont make young tiefling look like old human
Ive spent with this char lot of time and had great fun during leveling, also it does have galeb companion and some other precious extras... would be waste to just abandon him now, just because i would really prefer to make him look different. So im playing thiz wiz and also created new one who does look as i want right now. One looks like it should from beginning, second have all what should have.. a bit paranoic
one thing that you guys aren't really thinking about is there is the possibility that once the shards merge, some of those "character bound" items could be changed to "account bound". and in the realm of any game, where can you create a character, level it to cap and then go back and change the core of that character? why not allow the changing of class, too, if you're going to allow the change of race? it just doesn't make any logical sense.
You're going to lose on that one. Pretty much every game lets you change race. Personally I am indifferent to the idea now. On the other hand, I do want to be able to reroll initial stats. And this would pretty much be required for a race change feature to be added.
No it wouldn't be lore to allow it, but its not suppose to be. Hopefully the "gameworld" would just pretend it never happened. In its eyes you were always the new race. As long as it doesn't turn into something that's seen as required to do top content, I no longer see a problem with it.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
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jadetoraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 116Bounty Hunter
You're going to lose on that one. Pretty much every game lets you change race. Personally I am indifferent to the idea now. On the other hand, I do want to be able to reroll initial stats. And this would pretty much be required for a race change feature to be added.
No it wouldn't be lore to allow it, but its not suppose to be. Hopefully the "gameworld" would just pretend it never happened. In its eyes you were always the new race. As long as it doesn't turn into something that's seen as required to do top content, I no longer see a problem with it.
Wondering at this point how many times we'll need to repeat this before people stop going "RACE CHANGE ISN'T LORE FRIENDLY. HURRHURRR."
Originally Posted by jadetora View Post
It's hilarious because there are literally so many reasons why you would or could change races in roleplay even in terms of a D&D Tabletop P&P Campaign. Saying that this would break immersion, you appear to have no understanding of D&D to begin with.
Reincarnation much? Elan transformation? Dragonborn of Bahamut? Race Rebuild Quest? (Players Handbook II)
This -needs- to be in-game.
Especially when they just released another sh#$ty mask, that guess what? DOESN'T WORK FOR TIEFLINGS.
I really want this option please cryptic. I already have 1 of every class and am in the process of making a 2nd TR and CW for PvP purposes. I would love to be able to change my current TR and GWF race though as making 9 characters just isn't going to happen. If you allow race changes not only will tons of people utilize them for zen but they will also be again interested in that character and spend money gearing them.
I would love to gear out my GWF big time but I just can't see myself putting all that effort into him when as a human I have 2 less con, 3% less deflect, no racial CC resist, and 3 worthless feat points as a Tank GWF. So
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
1) Race-changing is lore-friendly. Plenty of ways to make it happen have already been mentioned.
I mean, it's magic, people.
Whether that prince has been turned into a frog or your elf gets turned into a halfling, it's a longstanding tradition in fantasy stories and the D&D game has included ways to make it happen at least since AD&D (what would be 1st edition), and I am pretty sure before that.
2) Their character creation regarding stats is terrible.
I should be fully informed of what effect what values in what stats will have on my character before I enter the game with them.
Telling me that I can choose to have these stats, those stats, or the other stats is a joke if I am not told what the stats mean.
And in the case of clerics, where game design has made their "prime" attribute something less than ideal, it is especially bad.
3) The race-specific quests are potentially problematic. Especially if they have some that pay off with anything special along the way.
If they can figure out workarounds to #3, though, then it only makes sense to put them in the game assuming that WotC hasn't forbidden them from doing so.
I have one lore beef with the game involving races: in Forgotten Realms, they are not called wood elves; they are called moon elves. This is a small thing, I know, but a thing nonetheless. I mean, if you have the license, you might as well stick to the lore especially when it doesn't affect coding or gameplay. Simply sticking to the generic 4E lore instead of incorporating FR material is just creative laziness.
Actually wood elves and moon elves are both in forgotten realms. They are separate races. I could quote you from the actual dnd setting books but I wont waste my time. There are LOTS of elven subraces, they havn't even scratched the surface. Star elves 4tw. Race change tokesn would be very nice for elves, sicne at launch I made my sun elf magic user from my original dnd campaign, but now they introduced sun elf as a separate race
Oh and btw, tieflings in this game don't have wings,... succubus do.
i think people aren't thinking about the technical aspects of changing race. since each race has their own sets of bonuses including additional heroic points for humans, race changing could require a complete respec in some situations. in a programming aspect, this could be nightmarish to set up. the way the current point assignment is set up, you must complete the heroic feats table before moving on to the paragon feats and if you all of a sudden have three additional points to add or if you lose three points, you would have to reset feats completely. in order to get from one row to the next, you have to assign five points in the current row.
changing race would break that.
and i can assure you they wouldn't change the feats progression just so they could incorporate race changes. create a new character with the race that you want. it's not like leveling up a character to 60 is difficult.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited October 2013
You're half right about the feats melodywhr. When you are a human you get 3 additional feats points but you can spend points in your paragon before you spend your additional three heroic points. However while it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to give players three additional heroic feats I would immagine it could be quite nightmarish to program something to forcibly remove them without including a complete respec.
However coupled with those issues are race specific quests and rewards which could also pose problems.
There are a fair amount of technical qualms to adding in race changes as well as some questionable motivations for players wishing to change their race (such as using a specific race to power level).
But, meh, those issues are meaningless compared to the blasphemy of the proposal to begin with. You can tote what MMO Whogivesahoot does all you want, there's a reason I am here and not there. A big part of that reason is because of this giant logo which says "Dungeons and Dragons."
Race changes don't belong in any D&D Game. Period.
You can say it shouldn't matter to me all you want, it does matter to me. And quite frankly that same "who cares what other people do" is used too much by people trying to justify cheating to make me even begin to consider changing my point of view.
What I hold dear to D&D took massive hits in this game already. Anything I associate with D&D, such as no race changes unless you have/are a horrible DM, isn't getting through without me voicing against it. I've already compromised quite a bit so the MMO crowd can be happy and the MMO crowd can't have everything their hack and slash MMO cravings desire without any consideration to those who have loved D&D since before personal computers even existed.
Whenever I see this, I wonder where this single player game is and how you're playing it.
It's an MMO. Of course it affects other players.
It would affect other roleplayers if you were a roleplayer who played with them, of course. But obviously the guy's a min-maxer and a power gamer, as are most people in the game, roleplayers are hardly likely to cross paths with the fellow, and I doubt roleplayers would care much about unseen, unknown changes power gamers are making to their characters for min-maxing purposes.
Surely you are not being serious with this argument? I smell a troll.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited October 2013
Again, I've heard the same arguments to defend the use of cheats and outright pay to win sales.
Who cares what they do? If they cheat it doesn't effect you! Just play the way you want.
No, that's not the way it works and it's about more than roleplaying. In fact I am quite sad I don't get to roleplay in Neverwinter much at all.
This is about the IP and what the IP means to me and others. To give you a comparison, let's pretend this thread requested adding lightsabers, spaceships and blasters into the game.
Race changes invoke the same 'no way in hell' emotion to me. Race changes at a whim don't belong in D&D any more than lightsabers or Gungans...
It's not roleplay. In fact there are ways to resolve race changes through roleplay but those are supposed to be a rare and/or difficult task and not a matter of payment whenever the hell you feel like it. RA Salvatore's The Companions actually just had a race change of sorts where a person who was simply a halfling is now a halfing genasi.
To me races changes are about what D&D is and is not. More or less it's the same reason I don't advocate adding monster races as player races; at least not without a faction system.
The only blurred line to me on the race change topic is the fact there are bound items and purchases like bank slots which can not be transferred. As such I actually wouldn't mind a race change reincarnation effect, such as RA Salvatore did in The Companions, because bound items and purchases cause complications...
By by that definition of race change you revert to level four again. All quests you completed (save the bag quests) would be nullified and you would be staring at a new character with all of your previous items and accumulated wealth.
Consider it a compromise. Plus it would solve the technical aspect of racial quests and the skeevy power leveling which I mentioned earlier.
As some have pointed out, race changes play around with the core of the game. I don't like race changes cause of that, plus others can use it to cheat to get things they normally couldn't get with that class/race combo. I too have been around D&D since before computers, almost 30 years. If you want to change races, start a new char. Thats what I did when drow was finally released. My avatar on here is of my drow cleric
I'm against the race change. I don't see any particular race being game-breaking. You can create a successful toon from ANY race. In the end it will depend on your build, gear and playstyle.
BUT
I do vote for initial stat reroll! I can't put enough stress in this - but how the hell respec token does not allow that?
I'm aware that cryptic has stated that they've been trying to stay away from race changes because of role playing and lore reasons, which i understand completely. Theres only a major problem to that, and that is how ridiculously important it is to choose the correct stats at the start.
When I bought the foundry pack (60 dollar) all I knew about the game was the different classes and that it had gotten good reviews out of closed beta. I needed a new MMO and didn't hesitate buying the pack. When I created my character I carefully read the passives / racials and was happy with my choice, however when I got to the stats rolls I just rolled until my primary stats was capped and moved on. I also tried reading up on what the actual stats did, but there is nowhere ingame that's explained until the character is already made (and I was really eager to start playing anyway...!)
Now, of course wisdom is completely garbage for Clerics compared to literally all the other abilities and I've only realized this after clearing all the dungeons in the game and gotten almost fully geared. It would really suck to level up a new Cleric just because I'm a sucker for min-maxing and I cannot stand seeing my stats not being optimal because of a choice I did when I knew nothing about the game.
Pros and cons with having race change:
Pros:
Incredible amounts of money can be made
Everyone unhappy with their race / initial stats will be extremely happy
You don't need to level up a new character because of a mistake you made when you were a rookie
Cons:
Players who strongly care about lore / role playing would not like this.
I really do understand that some people really care about their Lore, but in my honest opinion not having the option to race change / change the initial chosen abilities is NOT a good move for an MMORPG, especially not when it has such a big impact on your character. I would understand it if it was a single player RPG, but it isnt.
I Remember when gimping a character was the reason to reroll, now you want them to introduce a Pay to change race? Sorry, no.
That is your mistake, due to lack of knowledge. Now that you know, should re roll, and make your new character the right way.
You better ask for other things like: New pvp arenas, a right PvP reward system, a Glory gained based boons, and other things to improve your character, not just PAY TO CHANGE RACE BECAUSE I DIDNT READ A GUIDE.
I'm against the race change. I don't see any particular race being game-breaking. You can create a successful toon from ANY race. In the end it will depend on your build, gear and playstyle.
BUT
I do vote for initial stat reroll! I can't put enough stress in this - but how the hell respec token does not allow that?
So you are against race change but changing your powers, feats, name, appearance, and initial rolls are all fine? Why lol? Why do people want to forbid others from changing their race just because they personally don't want to do it?
This would make money for cryptic and would make a lot of people happy. This won't effect anyone negatively, b/c if you don't believe in race changes then don't buy one. Seems like a really easy choice.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I Remember when gimping a character was the reason to reroll, now you want them to introduce a Pay to change race? Sorry, no.
That is your mistake, due to lack of knowledge. Now that you know, should re roll, and make your new character the right way.
You better ask for other things like: New pvp arenas, a right PvP reward system, a Glory gained based boons, and other things to improve your character, not just PAY TO CHANGE RACE BECAUSE I DIDNT READ A GUIDE.
Welcome
Lol how about the fact that DPS GWF was great when I created one and the game said STR is my main attribute so ok I'll go with that, and then they make DPS GWF total garbage. Now I reroll Sent and have wasted stat point, 3 wasted feats, -2 con, and -3% deflect, b/c if I had any idea they were going to do that I'd have rolled halfling.
Or maybe my 2nd character, DC, game says oh yeah wisdom is your best stat. Oh look at that turns out Str/con/dex are my best stats and I have an 18 roll in wisdom that makes my other stats trash, not to mention I'm a half-elf b/c I didn't know any better.
TR just needs Dex right? So I can go ahead and roll 18 dex right? Wrong. now my str/con/int are trash.
Leveling is not a problem. I leveled a new CW in ~3 days of semi casual play time. But the full gear sets I have on GWF, TR, and DC will take over a month to refarm and I am certainly not going to just rebuy everything I already have.
Why should I put money/effort into these already gimped characters? Why should I put money/effort into a new character when I've already put so much effort into these?
Point is if I could race change I would actually play and gear all of my characters and cryptic would not only get my money for race changes but even more money from gearing all of those characters too.
Don't listen to the Idiots please cryptic, listen to those that will support you financially and add race changes.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Comments
Is that 2nd part sarcasm? because its hard to tell in type chat. PW is a for profit company, if they can create an authentic experience while making max profit, then great, but their goal is profit not authenticity. It has to be, they are not a charity. That is not cold or cruel of them, it is smart, so that they can continue to exist as a company.
Also, not that I'm for it, but how would other people being able to race change ruin your experience of the game? I admit that in a tabletop game having one of my companions suddenly morph from a foul-mouthed, perpetually drunk, tubby dwarf cleric into a bodacious and pious half elf cleric might throw me off my game, but in an online MMO I can take it in stride.
Immersion into an online game is for most people not on the same level as immersion into a tabletop game as in tabletop games the entire visual world, characters, and personalities are created in your imagination. So in terms of creative prowess you are much more immersed in a tabletop game. Whereas in an online game many of these factors are provided and decided for you.
To say it would ruin your immersion of the game, considering your experience is limited to that of the people you roleplay with, is incredibly selfish. It's as if you consider the other players in the game as little more than world filler.
As for the idea of offering racial changes, meh, I could live with it or without it. I'd prefer an option to dual spec a single character as a priority over racial changes, but I'm not against it.
Way to be overly judgmental here. All you have to base this opinion on are your own personal wants and biases. You know nothing of whats going on behind the scenes.
Perhaps, not being able to change race is a restriction placed on them by the license holder. As near as I am aware, you cant do this in DDO either. So commenting on it would be foolish. Any comment that puts the license holder in a poor light, would be a bad move.
Perhaps, it has been considered and debated and after a cost/benefit analysis. As large as this topic is, it is still a mere fraction of a fraction of the games population. You cant even get the entire forum to agree with this, and the forum is a tiny minority of the game. Commenting on that would also be foolish. I still recall the backlash and burn from STO when the PVP community asked for fixes and were told, they were insignificant. Granted, it was simply a way of explaining where they fit in the priorities list. But it came off poorly and ultimately caused more harm then good.
Perhaps it could simply be a technical limitation. There might be hard values and encoding that is attached to a character at creation that simply cant be changed without extensive reworking. This can go back to the whole cost/benefit thing. Or it could be a hard limitation of the engine. Keep in mind, while CO might allow it due to its open free form system. Race and class changing is not allowed in STO and have never been an option. And it works in a more similar manner to NW. And once again, commenting on this would be foolish. No one wants to highlight the limitations of their product. Especially a product that grows and develops and changes over time. What might be impossible, might become doable after a major revision. Conversely what might of been possible might not be later due to unforeseen limitations. Why would anyone lock themselves to a statement on an ever changing platform?
Simple put no comment, means simply that. Any hate, malice, or lack of ethics perceived are just that, perceptions based on disappointment and bias. I expect, in a majority of cases like this. The company would love to comment on such things. But simply cant either due to how comments can be taken as hard gospel or as troll bait. Or simply due to the ever changing nature of games like this, a hard statement becomes a terrible anchor to be chained to.
No. They're perceptions based on Cryptic's past performance in their other titles and repeatedly ignoring their players wants and desires even when they're thrown into their faces.
Contrary to your evident belief, this isn't the first time Cryptic's done the same things. You must be new here. Welcome to reality.
I wasn't aware Cryptic, or any game developer for that matter, was obligated to give into any want or demand by the player base. Its their game, they see the stats and metrics we don't. They have done the research we haven't. They are in a much better position to decide how best to profit from and maintain their game.
We don't have to agree with, or even like it, or even understand it. However, ranting about it, being bitter about it, and stamping your feet because they didn't cave to your wants. Wont change one single thing.
All the wanting, pleading, ranting, and rage has yet to produce a foundry for CO. And this topic is no where near as wanted. Continuing to berate this issue and venting your disappointment and bitterness is not going to change any minds.
now I will say a LOT of things I personally have suggested on these forums have happened not that I was the only one suggesting them. of course they did not happen right after I suggested them either.
back in the beta weekends I suggested alchemy and player made dye-packs.
in the big rogue discussion I suggested maybe give a buff when they do a big nerf ie give rogues some sort of teleport to make up for the crit loss without affecting dps (yep that's my fault)
Im sure race changes will either happen or they wont and in both cases people will be upset. but at this point we are all just beating a dead horse about it after 40 pages. (hides her cat o' nine)
ps I heard they were working on a foundry for CO to be released early next year or so.
LOL! True! You win the thread.
But rerolling initial stats is important. DO WANT! :rolleyes:
yep. just like the requests for transmutes to accumulate so you have different skins available to you (transmutation is a destructive process)... being able to change your race or re-roll your character after creation is very un-d&d. i'd be very surprised if this option was made available.
In a lot of cases some races and classes just aren't available when you make a character. when they become available you have to just scrap it all and restart. if they don't want to add a race-change maybe we can have some sort of inheritance program for a flat fee 500k ad all your titles/gear/money/pets/items/bankslots go to a newly made character with same name. and the old one is destroyed. its like transmuting for characters....
or make anything bound tradable to your own account via an account bank which you can buy extra slots for. All limited edition titles ie events/contests/promos should be account-wide. this way its not as painful to restart. and it adds more value to the Account so people will be less likely to have multiple accounts.
Rerolling base stats should probably be an entirely different purchace. If they do add race chnge it can be included in the fee. Like many other games often will throw in a free appearance change with race changes. but the stat roll arguments are more a min max thing and often have very little to do with rp.
but officially im FOR premium changes of any kind race, gender, class, stat, using dyes on pets...ect. and flor the record I have a half-elf Rogue which is generally considered the WORST choice from min maxig pov. Not that I would change that character. (unless im doing the whole change name/appearance thing to get the name back)
And yes - it would help some players like creator of this topic or me myself. I have Wiz at lvl 57, it my first char created in this game. I made it following some guide where obviously Tiefling was adviced as best race to create CW. And i admit indeed its a good choice but... excitation and "coolnes" at moment of cretion my first char, in time getchanged into mature "rpg" play hehe. Now i would like to have my wizard as in my imagination is - old HUMAN with grey hair, who spent all his life studying books in library. No matter how many "change apperance" tokens i would buy, i wont make young tiefling look like old human
Ive spent with this char lot of time and had great fun during leveling, also it does have galeb companion and some other precious extras... would be waste to just abandon him now, just because i would really prefer to make him look different. So im playing thiz wiz and also created new one who does look as i want right now. One looks like it should from beginning, second have all what should have.. a bit paranoic
You're going to lose on that one. Pretty much every game lets you change race. Personally I am indifferent to the idea now. On the other hand, I do want to be able to reroll initial stats. And this would pretty much be required for a race change feature to be added.
No it wouldn't be lore to allow it, but its not suppose to be. Hopefully the "gameworld" would just pretend it never happened. In its eyes you were always the new race. As long as it doesn't turn into something that's seen as required to do top content, I no longer see a problem with it.
Wondering at this point how many times we'll need to repeat this before people stop going "RACE CHANGE ISN'T LORE FRIENDLY. HURRHURRR."
I would love to gear out my GWF big time but I just can't see myself putting all that effort into him when as a human I have 2 less con, 3% less deflect, no racial CC resist, and 3 worthless feat points as a Tank GWF. So
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I mean, it's magic, people.
Whether that prince has been turned into a frog or your elf gets turned into a halfling, it's a longstanding tradition in fantasy stories and the D&D game has included ways to make it happen at least since AD&D (what would be 1st edition), and I am pretty sure before that.
2) Their character creation regarding stats is terrible.
I should be fully informed of what effect what values in what stats will have on my character before I enter the game with them.
Telling me that I can choose to have these stats, those stats, or the other stats is a joke if I am not told what the stats mean.
And in the case of clerics, where game design has made their "prime" attribute something less than ideal, it is especially bad.
3) The race-specific quests are potentially problematic. Especially if they have some that pay off with anything special along the way.
If they can figure out workarounds to #3, though, then it only makes sense to put them in the game assuming that WotC hasn't forbidden them from doing so.
It's just a matter of figuring out a good price.
I wouldn't make them cheap, though.
Actually wood elves and moon elves are both in forgotten realms. They are separate races. I could quote you from the actual dnd setting books but I wont waste my time. There are LOTS of elven subraces, they havn't even scratched the surface. Star elves 4tw. Race change tokesn would be very nice for elves, sicne at launch I made my sun elf magic user from my original dnd campaign, but now they introduced sun elf as a separate race
Oh and btw, tieflings in this game don't have wings,... succubus do.
changing race would break that.
and i can assure you they wouldn't change the feats progression just so they could incorporate race changes. create a new character with the race that you want. it's not like leveling up a character to 60 is difficult.
However coupled with those issues are race specific quests and rewards which could also pose problems.
There are a fair amount of technical qualms to adding in race changes as well as some questionable motivations for players wishing to change their race (such as using a specific race to power level).
But, meh, those issues are meaningless compared to the blasphemy of the proposal to begin with. You can tote what MMO Whogivesahoot does all you want, there's a reason I am here and not there. A big part of that reason is because of this giant logo which says "Dungeons and Dragons."
Race changes don't belong in any D&D Game. Period.
You can say it shouldn't matter to me all you want, it does matter to me. And quite frankly that same "who cares what other people do" is used too much by people trying to justify cheating to make me even begin to consider changing my point of view.
What I hold dear to D&D took massive hits in this game already. Anything I associate with D&D, such as no race changes unless you have/are a horrible DM, isn't getting through without me voicing against it. I've already compromised quite a bit so the MMO crowd can be happy and the MMO crowd can't have everything their hack and slash MMO cravings desire without any consideration to those who have loved D&D since before personal computers even existed.
It would affect other roleplayers if you were a roleplayer who played with them, of course. But obviously the guy's a min-maxer and a power gamer, as are most people in the game, roleplayers are hardly likely to cross paths with the fellow, and I doubt roleplayers would care much about unseen, unknown changes power gamers are making to their characters for min-maxing purposes.
Surely you are not being serious with this argument? I smell a troll.
Who cares what they do? If they cheat it doesn't effect you! Just play the way you want.
No, that's not the way it works and it's about more than roleplaying. In fact I am quite sad I don't get to roleplay in Neverwinter much at all.
This is about the IP and what the IP means to me and others. To give you a comparison, let's pretend this thread requested adding lightsabers, spaceships and blasters into the game.
Race changes invoke the same 'no way in hell' emotion to me. Race changes at a whim don't belong in D&D any more than lightsabers or Gungans...
It's not roleplay. In fact there are ways to resolve race changes through roleplay but those are supposed to be a rare and/or difficult task and not a matter of payment whenever the hell you feel like it. RA Salvatore's The Companions actually just had a race change of sorts where a person who was simply a halfling is now a halfing genasi.
To me races changes are about what D&D is and is not. More or less it's the same reason I don't advocate adding monster races as player races; at least not without a faction system.
The only blurred line to me on the race change topic is the fact there are bound items and purchases like bank slots which can not be transferred. As such I actually wouldn't mind a race change reincarnation effect, such as RA Salvatore did in The Companions, because bound items and purchases cause complications...
By by that definition of race change you revert to level four again. All quests you completed (save the bag quests) would be nullified and you would be staring at a new character with all of your previous items and accumulated wealth.
Consider it a compromise. Plus it would solve the technical aspect of racial quests and the skeevy power leveling which I mentioned earlier.
BUT
I do vote for initial stat reroll! I can't put enough stress in this - but how the hell respec token does not allow that?
I Remember when gimping a character was the reason to reroll, now you want them to introduce a Pay to change race? Sorry, no.
That is your mistake, due to lack of knowledge. Now that you know, should re roll, and make your new character the right way.
You better ask for other things like: New pvp arenas, a right PvP reward system, a Glory gained based boons, and other things to improve your character, not just PAY TO CHANGE RACE BECAUSE I DIDNT READ A GUIDE.
Welcome
So you are against race change but changing your powers, feats, name, appearance, and initial rolls are all fine? Why lol? Why do people want to forbid others from changing their race just because they personally don't want to do it?
This would make money for cryptic and would make a lot of people happy. This won't effect anyone negatively, b/c if you don't believe in race changes then don't buy one. Seems like a really easy choice.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Lol how about the fact that DPS GWF was great when I created one and the game said STR is my main attribute so ok I'll go with that, and then they make DPS GWF total garbage. Now I reroll Sent and have wasted stat point, 3 wasted feats, -2 con, and -3% deflect, b/c if I had any idea they were going to do that I'd have rolled halfling.
Or maybe my 2nd character, DC, game says oh yeah wisdom is your best stat. Oh look at that turns out Str/con/dex are my best stats and I have an 18 roll in wisdom that makes my other stats trash, not to mention I'm a half-elf b/c I didn't know any better.
TR just needs Dex right? So I can go ahead and roll 18 dex right? Wrong. now my str/con/int are trash.
Leveling is not a problem. I leveled a new CW in ~3 days of semi casual play time. But the full gear sets I have on GWF, TR, and DC will take over a month to refarm and I am certainly not going to just rebuy everything I already have.
Why should I put money/effort into these already gimped characters? Why should I put money/effort into a new character when I've already put so much effort into these?
Point is if I could race change I would actually play and gear all of my characters and cryptic would not only get my money for race changes but even more money from gearing all of those characters too.
Don't listen to the Idiots please cryptic, listen to those that will support you financially and add race changes.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.