Riding pigs.
Riding spiders.
Riding nightmares.
Pet leprechauns following you around.
Pet honey badgers following you around.
Pet ghosts following you around.
Items which fit perfectly any race (from halfling up to halforc) as long as they've got the right career choice.
Items which cannot be worn whatsoever by anyone who doesn't have the right career choice (STEP AWAY FROM TEH DAGGER, FIGHTERBOY: YOUR HANDS REFUSE IT)
The ability to completely (on a whim) retrain your choices throughout your entire career, including how strong, dextrous, hardy, clever, wise or charismatic you are.
The ability to fight while wearing nothing but a pair of pants, yet getting the benefits of a full suit of heavy armour.
The ability to wear a big ol' chunky helmet, but make it (on a whim) entirely invisible.
Magic chests at the end of dungeons that only have stuff in them every few hours. Also, they sometimes have multiple options so you can choose what it contains.
Frikkin' Astral Diamonds as a universal currency.
The list goes on. Any of those things have absolutely no place in D&D (at least not without very, very good explanation), but are entirely accepted in an MMO. This game is FAR, FAR more of a generic MMO than it is a strict D&D game, so the "it goes against the lore" argument is specious at best.
actually, no one is arguing that certain concessions haven't already been made in the format translation between tabletop D&D and neverwinter D&D. but every item on your list is far more explainable and believable than a race change would be. the "this is already a f2p MMO so we should be able to change everything at the cost of a microtransaction" argument is just as valid as the "let's incorporate lightsabers and tauntaun mounts" one. it's perfectly believable... right?
i mean... riding a battle pig is definitely more believable than a half-orc becoming a tiefling.
my poor tiefling mage is screaming "please don't go there..." in my head.
No more of an advantage than simply rerolling a whole new character. It's just that that is incredibly tedious.
All race-change would do is save TIME. And as far as I can tell, exchanging money for time is pretty much the entire F2P model in a nutshell.
while the f2p model is designed to provide convenience, as you can see in the zen store or anywhere else in-game, you cannot buy an already leveled-to-60 character. providing an option to change a leveled character's race would be, in my opinion, the exact same thing.
I'm sorry, but how could it provide an advantage? Wouldn't you have the same advantage if you had HAPPENED to choose another race on character creation?
the difference being that you put in the time investment to level that character as-is rather than paying for a token that allows you to change racial bonuses and stats after the fact. just look at the feywild campaign progression list and the daily/weekly quests. retraining is a given in an MMO because of class balance changes. or simply put: retraining. that is certainly not as far-fetched as changing the race of your character.
Seems a bit silly that you can convert tons of INT into an equivalent amount of STR (or similar) though.
"I started going to the gym a lot, so now I can bench 250, but I can no longer do complex calculations, for some reason".
Equally for things like DEX, CHA, etc. The very idea that everyone has a fixed number of points to allocate to arbitrary characteristics is gamey enough, but the ability to switch those points around on demand? MAGIC.
the argument of "i made a mistake when i created this character" combined with "that race wasn't available when i created this character" could also be combined with "that CLASS wasn't available when i created this character..." so where does it end?
In theory I spent time learning how to play as a guardian fighter or control wizard or devout cleric or whatever.
I don't have to learn how to play as a Sun Elf or Drow.
I would say that it would be unfair to others if they got grouped up with a level 60 wizard that has not done a single combat as a wizard.
Grouping those same players with a Sun Elf that has not done a single combat as a Sun Elf? They will only know if they knew the person beforehand.
Can't break immersion where there is none.
If you are RPing that you know that people can pay $$$ for Zen to get a race change, then you are doing some weird RP.
Initial stats do make significant difference when it comes to any specific build. Imagine a CW with 18 Dexterity or a GF with 18 Wisdom. $hit happens.
But no race affects a build that good/bad. Prove me wrong.
If my GWF were a halfling I would gain 4% deflect, 2% crit, 2% ArP, 4% HP, 10% CC resistance, and would lose 3 worthless feat points. That could easily be the difference between winning and losing a 1v1, and would make me much tankier. I have already done a bunch of sharandar and have the gear set I want on this character. Will I reroll and refarm ALL of those items? No. Will I gear up this character knowing that he is (in my mind) severely gimped compared to what he could be? No.
So cryptic will not only get my Zen for a race change but also the zen for new enchants, because lets face it GWF doesn't get many groups =P
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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mctankypantsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
I don't mind the idea of race changes simply because it's been done in D&D for some time now. If you're using the Expanded Rebuilding rules found in the Player's Handbook II and undergo a race rebuild quest (yes I googled that).
You could use a Miracle or Wish spell. You could be endlessly reincarnated until you got the desired race. My point being that it isn't something that hasn't been done in D&D.
My only issue with it, and it's completely personal is people that change races in other games solely for the purpose of making the sluttiest female character they can. Their choice. I don't care for it.
Omg, everyone is so obsessed with the LORE.
With the logical basement of retraining token. With the possibility of some stat changes to lack plausibility. Plausibility in a fantasy game!
It's like seeking for logic in massive cosmic battles in Star Wars when everyone knows that sound does not spread in vacuum.
Sorry to hurt your feelings, but it is just a game. A programmed code consisting of zeros and ones.
Moreover, this game is also a commercial project. A very successful commercial project at the moment.
So let me play Vanga a bit and say what happens next. If the devs consider that adding race change feature would attract significant cash, and the negative returns from a group of fans unsatisfied with the decision will affect the money inflow to a lesser extent - then race change WILL happen.
And the majority of players will accept it like they accepted all other things that are against your beloved Lore.
Again, sorry for this post.
I am against the race change due to my own reasons. But if it will be implemented, i won't start a fuss. There is more things to worry about.
If my GWF were a halfling I would gain 4% deflect, 2% crit, 2% ArP, 4% HP, 10% CC resistance, and would lose 3 worthless feat points. That could easily be the difference between winning and losing a 1v1, and would make me much tankier. I have already done a bunch of sharandar and have the gear set I want on this character. Will I reroll and refarm ALL of those items? No. Will I gear up this character knowing that he is (in my mind) severely gimped compared to what he could be? No.
So cryptic will not only get my Zen for a race change but also the zen for new enchants, because lets face it GWF doesn't get many groups =P
here is a great example of the kind of advantage you could acquire by changing your race. that's not to say that you couldn't create a new character choosing this race, tricked out stats and then put all that zen towards your new character. having already invested time into your existing one is important. i get that. but in my opinion it's the equivalent of going to the zen shop and buying a new level 60 character.
if we were going to incorporate D&D 4e rules using a reincarnation spell, you actually wouldn't even get to choose what race you changed into. you would be at the mercy of RNG and an account full of zen.
here is a great example of the kind of advantage you could acquire by changing your race. that's not to say that you couldn't create a new character choosing this race, tricked out stats and then put all that zen towards your new character. having already invested time into your existing one is important. i get that. but in my opinion it's the equivalent of going to the zen shop and buying a new level 60 character.
if we were going to incorporate D&D 4e rules using a reincarnation spell, you actually wouldn't even get to choose what race you changed into. you would be at the mercy of RNG and an account full of zen.
The difference I already leveled, geared, and put money into my GWF and I will not do it all over again just to tweak it. I started the character in very early open beta and my GWF was the character that I most researched prior to making! I had everything planned out exactly how I wanted it. But then GWF was changed, which I have no control over, and he is only useful in PvP, which means I lose out on all those stats b/c of circumstances out of my control.
So cryptic can either not do race changes and not get a dime out of me from that character, or they can allow and get ~1000 zen for the change and another 5000 zen for enchants down the road. It's their call...
Also I have 6 60's (and my 2nd TR is 57 so it's about to be 7) I am well aware that leveling takes minimal time, but I have already done more than my share of leveling and am tired of it. Not to mention I have 8 character slots and would have to buy even more to make all these new perfect characters b/c I'm not just going to delete a lvl 60 with 20 leadership.
They are going to get at least 3 race changes, a set of character slots (for ranger/warlock) and 3 characters worth of gearing money out of just me personally by implementing this. Multiply that by 20 just from the conversations I've had with guild mates, and multiply that by 1000+ just from people I've talked to. Many even said they were willing to pay 2000 zen, they don't care, just want to be able to use their old character without leveling and gearing a whole new one.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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krisst0fMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Is the fact that there are 47 pages of comments on this topic worth at least an official response from Cryptic...???
Supposedly, the forums moderators meet "every monday" with the producers to discuss issues brought up by players...
Isn't that one of them...?
Maybe the said-moderators would care to comment?
BTW, I too would love to reroll my ability stats because I messed up initially and there is no way I am started another alt to get as fully loaded as my main...
Lol just that fact that players are trying to throw money at them for this I would think would be reason enough =P
There are circumstances...The playerbase might not accept it, that's why such decision must be thoroughly planned.
Neverwinter has a large playerbase, and many people are familiar with D&D. So they might not like it.
On the other hand, honestly i don't think that many will pay close attention if race change makes live. Some will be like "yaaaay", some will dislike it, but most be like "whatever". I think
There are circumstances...The playerbase might not accept it, that's why such decision must be thoroughly planned.
Neverwinter has a large playerbase, and many people are familiar with D&D. So they might not like it.
On the other hand, honestly i don't think that many will pay close attention if race change makes live. Some will be like "yaaaay", some will dislike it, but most be like "whatever". I think
Exactly, I honestly don't understand the argument that it will effect lore or even anyone for that matter. If you are an RP'er how often do you hang out PvP players? Would you even notice if some random player you've never talked to is now suddenly a human instead of a half elf? There would be 0 effect on the community that doesn't want race changes.
I could level 5 GWF's, name then all Bob (since names are not unique) and have them all different races and builds. Why is that so different than having 1 Bob which I can make whatever race I want?
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
47 pages of the same people going round and round repeating the same points does not necessarily equate a need for an official response. at best, you'll get sominator thanking us for the feedback. if that happens, then that probably means he plans on taking this issue to the lead developer on their next meeting... which would then simply mean they will consider it. however, it is not a guarantee that it will be implemented. and just like how they tested the unbinding of companions during early development and decided it didn't fit well in the game, this suggestion could already have a reason as to why they won't implement it into the game.
if cryptic decided to move forward with race changes, i could see D&D purists taking this issue straight to wizards of the north. not that they have any control over what cryptic does with neverwinter, but i'm sure they have some degree of influence.
edit: oh wait... sominator already thanked us for the feedback 25 pages ago.
"If you don't like lightsabers in D&D you don't have to use it."
It doesn't work that way.
That isn't even remotely the same thing. Your don't see the other players change race. You don't walk around having it forced into your face. Its something easily ignored from an RP-ish/DnD perspective. The only time it would be difficult is if one of your close friends used such a feature. That'd be between you and them.
This argument boils down to the personal views of what is or is not acceptable to add into a D&D IP to begin with.
No, it has nothing to do with D&D or more specifically the Forgotten Realms IP. As I pointed out in a post earlier, a race change is an MMO player convenience feature. It doesn't even fit in with the IPs of the other games that have it.
It's simply grasping for straws to argue that players shouldn't be bothered instead of comprehending that this is a moral compass. It can't be proven or disproven. It will either bother you or it won't and you must respect the fact that it does bother people whether you understand and agree with it or not.
If such a feature was added. There would initially be a rush of changes. And there would be a new 'rush' whenever they added a new race. Other than that you likely wouldn't ever notice it. The first time you meet a character you wouldn't know if they had ever changed race or not. Again, the only time it would be obvious is when one of your inner circle of friends uses it. That's between you and them though.
It has everything to do with D&D and should NOT be allowed. There is too much work to be done to add the race change token and that would cut back on adding new content to the game therefore. The race change is not need here.
I honestly dont expect this will ever happen. It could simply be something hard to change in Cryptics engine. Or it could simply be some policy of theirs. Either way, Its been an asked for feature in STO for years, even before it went F2P and its not something that has even been commented on, in all this time.
Every time they added a new race it seemed the same conversation repeated itself. I still remember when they added Catians. You would think the forums went into full revolt. All the folks arguing both for and against it.
Nothing was done about it then, I dont expect anything will be done about it now.
About the only similarity to D&D this game has is its mechanics namings (not their meanings or function) and the logos on the front of the box. The D&D rulesets have already been murdered, homogenized, ignored.
I really dont understand the over dramatised Starwars/lightsaber references tbh. Perhaps those particular people should be using examples like riding Owlbears, having Leprechaun and Honey Badger companions as the polarising destruction of their D&D belief system. (Yes i know i have some nerve calling anyone out on over dramatising posts, my history is terrible).
MY analogy of this thought process is not batting an eyelid when someone drives a digger through your house, but pulling out your 9mm for the kid riding past your letter box and scratching it. But then it wasnt that long ago i was making grand rants over something extremely minor too.
Bring on the option to change races at a cost. QoL enhancements are of greater value than the remnants of lore now.
Sure why not a polymorph spell. Why not do the race changes. Oh ya this is cryptic. It would cause such an epic fail bug of some kind and you would lose the whole charcter. Please cryptic do it. Please oh it would be so fun to watch
Just because it's an MMO does not mean you can break every convention dealing with the IP. The point is it says D&D on the label. I expect at least some of that when I play. This game is getting further and further away from that every day. There are those of us who play this hoping that we get closer to the IP at some point. Once you get too far away from the original concept you have to remove the label and rename it. Frankly I am sort of surprised WotC has not already tightened the reins somewhat, considering all of the grief they gave Atari about straying to far. WotC still has considerable control as Cryptic is only leasing the name, it did not buy it. Concessions do need to made when translating a table top game to the internet, but most of what makes the game can still be kept. Cryptic/PWE are making a hash of it so far, and that is very disappointing. I, for one, am waiting for them to live up to "a D&D game for players, by D&D players".
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Supposedly, the forums moderators meet "every monday" with the producers to discuss issues brought up by players...
I don't get to speak to Andy. I have had the privilege of speaking to him directly a couple of times but that was simply because we bumped into each other during Alpha Tests.
The Community Managers, Sominator and Pinpointerror, speak with Andy every week and talk about the major community concerns and requests. The fact Som responded to this thread means it was handed to Andy.
However the lack of a response means that they haven't outright said no...
Yet they are doing one of the following:
Debating whether to add it internally. You have absolutely no hope of a response more detailed until this step is done.
Investigating whether or not it is even feasible to implement.
Considering how soon this really should be added. This would take development time and while some of you want it every second spent on this will detract from resources that could create content that isn't so debated.
First Rule of Programming: Everything ou work on can blow up at any time. As such this feature could be researched and planned for months and as soon as the last line of code is written it becomes clear that there is no way it will work. As such it is not and never will be as simple as saying "yeah we'll do it" because there are no guarantees when programming and gamers don't understand this no matter how many times they're told.
End result is it isn't as simply as turning on a light switch. Andy knows about the request but until there is more concrete information to give there's really no viable concrete response other than "thanks for the feedback."
Sure why not a polymorph spell. Why not do the race changes. Oh ya this is cryptic. It would cause such an epic fail bug of some kind and you would lose the whole charcter. Please cryptic do it. Please oh it would be so fun to watch
Polymorph changes physical appearance. Not Attributes.
Polymphing a human into a drow only makes them appear as a drow but will not give any racial benefits.
They will still be a human in the shape of a drow.
Just because it's an MMO does not mean you can break every convention dealing with the IP. The point is it says D&D on the label. I expect at least some of that when I play. This game is getting further and further away from that every day. There are those of us who play this hoping that we get closer to the IP at some point. Once you get too far away from the original concept you have to remove the label and rename it. Frankly I am sort of surprised WotC has not already tightened the reins somewhat, considering all of the grief they gave Atari about straying to far. WotC still has considerable control as Cryptic is only leasing the name, it did not buy it. Concessions do need to made when translating a table top game to the internet, but most of what makes the game can still be kept. Cryptic/PWE are making a hash of it so far, and that is very disappointing. I, for one, am waiting for them to live up to "a D&D game for players, by D&D players".
They pretty much already broke every convention. And it wasn't even just the game. WOTC is changing tons of this stuff on their end as well. Take a mount for example: Howlers were evil creatures from pandemonium. You had to be evil to even have a chance at riding one of them. Now they are a common site. You can't walk past the Auction House in Neverwinter without seeing one. This wasn't just on Cryptic's end. WOTC changed a lot of DnD stuff too.
I mentioned the IPs earlier. My point was in response to a statement that a race change didn't fit DnD. And what I said was that a race change never fit any IP. It breaks lore even for games that have such a feature. Because it was never meant to fit. Just like the Zen shop was never meant to fit into lore. Its there so Cryptic/PWE can make money. Its kept OOC. Just like anything else, players that bought a race change could make up their own RP backstory for it. If they want to. Or they can ignore it and pretend their character was always that race. Just like every other game that has race changes.
If Sockmunkey is right, and the engine Cryptic uses can't handle race changes... then we are arguing for nothing anyway. But I have a feeling they would have mentioned it, if that was the case.
There are only 2 things I don't want to see come out of this:
One, would be them trying to write the race change into the lore. No permanent polymorph potions or wish spells please. These don't really work this way in DnD. Keep it in the shop and out of character.
Two, would be to restrict it somehow. Either with a hefty price or something else. No one wants the game to reach a point where players are changing race every patch because so-and-so racial ability is now overpowered when combined with some skill.
I can understand that lightsabers and blasters would quite literally be rubbed in your face when you're faced with them in the game world, but would you actually see the race change? To me it doesn't seem any different than re-rolling the character with the same name, which is already possible.
Also, it's a bit unfair to compare this to cheating, as with a race change you don't gain or lose any kind of progress.
Exactly. I fail to see how one group's sqeamishness at the thought of some dude x way over there changing his race should trump another group's having made mistakes in the beginning and wanting to change their race for a reasonable fee. This is not a "hardcore" game. There is no permadeath, and "choices and consequences" holds much less importance than it would in a hardcore game. Neither should there be a block to race changing.
The D&D in this game is already heavily compromised towards an action MMO, and it's none the worse for it. A race change option should be included.
If you're in an rp guild, it's up to you to OOC-ly convince the guildie who wants to race change not to do so, or kick him.
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krisst0fMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't get to speak to Andy. I have had the privilege of speaking to him directly a couple of times but that was simply because we bumped into each other during Alpha Tests.
The Community Managers, Sominator and Pinpointerror, speak with Andy every week and talk about the major community concerns and requests. The fact Som responded to this thread means it was handed to Andy.
However the lack of a response means that they haven't outright said no...
Yet they are doing one of the following:
Debating whether to add it internally. You have absolutely no hope of a response more detailed until this step is done.
Investigating whether or not it is even feasible to implement.
Considering how soon this really should be added. This would take development time and while some of you want it every second spent on this will detract from resources that could create content that isn't so debated.
...
Thanks for clarifying... At least there is hope we will be able to re-roll our ability scores some day... lack of which prevent me from changing to another build effectively.
I suspect that PWE stands to profit more in the long run if they do not allow race changes to be purchased with Zen. I think that the potential revenue from additional slots purchased and equipped when new races/classes are released is greater than that which would be realized if race/class changes were allowed.
Personally, I'm an old curmudgeon that doesn't min/max but I have no problem with the concept of race changes.
I suspect that PWE stands to profit more in the long run if they do not allow race changes to be purchased with Zen. I think that the potential revenue from additional slots purchased and equipped when new races/classes are released is greater than that which would be realized if race/class changes were allowed.
Personally, I'm an old curmudgeon that doesn't min/max but I have no problem with the concept of race changes.
I already have 8 character slots and 7 60's, they will already get 1 more set of character slots for ranger/warlock out of me anyway.
However I will not level another GWF/GF/DC, nor will I gear my current ones because they are so far from optimal. So by adding race changes they would receive 3k zen for 3 race changes, and a great deal more for gear and zen items for those characters. Many others are in the same boat as me, already have multiple classes at 60, and don't want to replay all those characters.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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actually, no one is arguing that certain concessions haven't already been made in the format translation between tabletop D&D and neverwinter D&D. but every item on your list is far more explainable and believable than a race change would be. the "this is already a f2p MMO so we should be able to change everything at the cost of a microtransaction" argument is just as valid as the "let's incorporate lightsabers and tauntaun mounts" one. it's perfectly believable... right?
i mean... riding a battle pig is definitely more believable than a half-orc becoming a tiefling.
my poor tiefling mage is screaming "please don't go there..." in my head.
while the f2p model is designed to provide convenience, as you can see in the zen store or anywhere else in-game, you cannot buy an already leveled-to-60 character. providing an option to change a leveled character's race would be, in my opinion, the exact same thing.
the difference being that you put in the time investment to level that character as-is rather than paying for a token that allows you to change racial bonuses and stats after the fact. just look at the feywild campaign progression list and the daily/weekly quests. retraining is a given in an MMO because of class balance changes. or simply put: retraining. that is certainly not as far-fetched as changing the race of your character.
"I started going to the gym a lot, so now I can bench 250, but I can no longer do complex calculations, for some reason".
Equally for things like DEX, CHA, etc. The very idea that everyone has a fixed number of points to allocate to arbitrary characteristics is gamey enough, but the ability to switch those points around on demand? MAGIC.
In theory I spent time learning how to play as a guardian fighter or control wizard or devout cleric or whatever.
I don't have to learn how to play as a Sun Elf or Drow.
I would say that it would be unfair to others if they got grouped up with a level 60 wizard that has not done a single combat as a wizard.
Grouping those same players with a Sun Elf that has not done a single combat as a Sun Elf? They will only know if they knew the person beforehand.
Can't break immersion where there is none.
If you are RPing that you know that people can pay $$$ for Zen to get a race change, then you are doing some weird RP.
If my GWF were a halfling I would gain 4% deflect, 2% crit, 2% ArP, 4% HP, 10% CC resistance, and would lose 3 worthless feat points. That could easily be the difference between winning and losing a 1v1, and would make me much tankier. I have already done a bunch of sharandar and have the gear set I want on this character. Will I reroll and refarm ALL of those items? No. Will I gear up this character knowing that he is (in my mind) severely gimped compared to what he could be? No.
So cryptic will not only get my Zen for a race change but also the zen for new enchants, because lets face it GWF doesn't get many groups =P
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
You could use a Miracle or Wish spell. You could be endlessly reincarnated until you got the desired race. My point being that it isn't something that hasn't been done in D&D.
My only issue with it, and it's completely personal is people that change races in other games solely for the purpose of making the sluttiest female character they can. Their choice. I don't care for it.
With the logical basement of retraining token. With the possibility of some stat changes to lack plausibility.
Plausibility in a fantasy game!
It's like seeking for logic in massive cosmic battles in Star Wars when everyone knows that sound does not spread in vacuum.
Sorry to hurt your feelings, but it is just a game. A programmed code consisting of zeros and ones.
Moreover, this game is also a commercial project. A very successful commercial project at the moment.
So let me play Vanga a bit and say what happens next. If the devs consider that adding race change feature would attract significant cash, and the negative returns from a group of fans unsatisfied with the decision will affect the money inflow to a lesser extent - then race change WILL happen.
And the majority of players will accept it like they accepted all other things that are against your beloved Lore.
Again, sorry for this post.
I am against the race change due to my own reasons. But if it will be implemented, i won't start a fuss. There is more things to worry about.
here is a great example of the kind of advantage you could acquire by changing your race. that's not to say that you couldn't create a new character choosing this race, tricked out stats and then put all that zen towards your new character. having already invested time into your existing one is important. i get that. but in my opinion it's the equivalent of going to the zen shop and buying a new level 60 character.
if we were going to incorporate D&D 4e rules using a reincarnation spell, you actually wouldn't even get to choose what race you changed into. you would be at the mercy of RNG and an account full of zen.
The difference I already leveled, geared, and put money into my GWF and I will not do it all over again just to tweak it. I started the character in very early open beta and my GWF was the character that I most researched prior to making! I had everything planned out exactly how I wanted it. But then GWF was changed, which I have no control over, and he is only useful in PvP, which means I lose out on all those stats b/c of circumstances out of my control.
So cryptic can either not do race changes and not get a dime out of me from that character, or they can allow and get ~1000 zen for the change and another 5000 zen for enchants down the road. It's their call...
Also I have 6 60's (and my 2nd TR is 57 so it's about to be 7) I am well aware that leveling takes minimal time, but I have already done more than my share of leveling and am tired of it. Not to mention I have 8 character slots and would have to buy even more to make all these new perfect characters b/c I'm not just going to delete a lvl 60 with 20 leadership.
They are going to get at least 3 race changes, a set of character slots (for ranger/warlock) and 3 characters worth of gearing money out of just me personally by implementing this. Multiply that by 20 just from the conversations I've had with guild mates, and multiply that by 1000+ just from people I've talked to. Many even said they were willing to pay 2000 zen, they don't care, just want to be able to use their old character without leveling and gearing a whole new one.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Supposedly, the forums moderators meet "every monday" with the producers to discuss issues brought up by players...
Isn't that one of them...?
Maybe the said-moderators would care to comment?
BTW, I too would love to reroll my ability stats because I messed up initially and there is no way I am started another alt to get as fully loaded as my main...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Neverwinter has a large playerbase, and many people are familiar with D&D. So they might not like it.
On the other hand, honestly i don't think that many will pay close attention if race change makes live. Some will be like "yaaaay", some will dislike it, but most be like "whatever". I think
Exactly, I honestly don't understand the argument that it will effect lore or even anyone for that matter. If you are an RP'er how often do you hang out PvP players? Would you even notice if some random player you've never talked to is now suddenly a human instead of a half elf? There would be 0 effect on the community that doesn't want race changes.
I could level 5 GWF's, name then all Bob (since names are not unique) and have them all different races and builds. Why is that so different than having 1 Bob which I can make whatever race I want?
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
if cryptic decided to move forward with race changes, i could see D&D purists taking this issue straight to wizards of the north. not that they have any control over what cryptic does with neverwinter, but i'm sure they have some degree of influence.
edit: oh wait... sominator already thanked us for the feedback 25 pages ago.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?247612-Race-changes-and-why-they-re-needed&p=4576832&viewfull=1#post4576832
That isn't even remotely the same thing. Your don't see the other players change race. You don't walk around having it forced into your face. Its something easily ignored from an RP-ish/DnD perspective. The only time it would be difficult is if one of your close friends used such a feature. That'd be between you and them.
No, it has nothing to do with D&D or more specifically the Forgotten Realms IP. As I pointed out in a post earlier, a race change is an MMO player convenience feature. It doesn't even fit in with the IPs of the other games that have it.
If such a feature was added. There would initially be a rush of changes. And there would be a new 'rush' whenever they added a new race. Other than that you likely wouldn't ever notice it. The first time you meet a character you wouldn't know if they had ever changed race or not. Again, the only time it would be obvious is when one of your inner circle of friends uses it. That's between you and them though.
Every time they added a new race it seemed the same conversation repeated itself. I still remember when they added Catians. You would think the forums went into full revolt. All the folks arguing both for and against it.
Nothing was done about it then, I dont expect anything will be done about it now.
I really dont understand the over dramatised Starwars/lightsaber references tbh. Perhaps those particular people should be using examples like riding Owlbears, having Leprechaun and Honey Badger companions as the polarising destruction of their D&D belief system. (Yes i know i have some nerve calling anyone out on over dramatising posts, my history is terrible).
MY analogy of this thought process is not batting an eyelid when someone drives a digger through your house, but pulling out your 9mm for the kid riding past your letter box and scratching it. But then it wasnt that long ago i was making grand rants over something extremely minor too.
Bring on the option to change races at a cost. QoL enhancements are of greater value than the remnants of lore now.
I don't get to speak to Andy. I have had the privilege of speaking to him directly a couple of times but that was simply because we bumped into each other during Alpha Tests.
The Community Managers, Sominator and Pinpointerror, speak with Andy every week and talk about the major community concerns and requests. The fact Som responded to this thread means it was handed to Andy.
However the lack of a response means that they haven't outright said no...
Yet they are doing one of the following:
End result is it isn't as simply as turning on a light switch. Andy knows about the request but until there is more concrete information to give there's really no viable concrete response other than "thanks for the feedback."
Polymorph changes physical appearance. Not Attributes.
Polymphing a human into a drow only makes them appear as a drow but will not give any racial benefits.
They will still be a human in the shape of a drow.
They pretty much already broke every convention. And it wasn't even just the game. WOTC is changing tons of this stuff on their end as well. Take a mount for example: Howlers were evil creatures from pandemonium. You had to be evil to even have a chance at riding one of them. Now they are a common site. You can't walk past the Auction House in Neverwinter without seeing one. This wasn't just on Cryptic's end. WOTC changed a lot of DnD stuff too.
I mentioned the IPs earlier. My point was in response to a statement that a race change didn't fit DnD. And what I said was that a race change never fit any IP. It breaks lore even for games that have such a feature. Because it was never meant to fit. Just like the Zen shop was never meant to fit into lore. Its there so Cryptic/PWE can make money. Its kept OOC. Just like anything else, players that bought a race change could make up their own RP backstory for it. If they want to. Or they can ignore it and pretend their character was always that race. Just like every other game that has race changes.
If Sockmunkey is right, and the engine Cryptic uses can't handle race changes... then we are arguing for nothing anyway. But I have a feeling they would have mentioned it, if that was the case.
There are only 2 things I don't want to see come out of this:
One, would be them trying to write the race change into the lore. No permanent polymorph potions or wish spells please. These don't really work this way in DnD. Keep it in the shop and out of character.
Two, would be to restrict it somehow. Either with a hefty price or something else. No one wants the game to reach a point where players are changing race every patch because so-and-so racial ability is now overpowered when combined with some skill.
Exactly. I fail to see how one group's sqeamishness at the thought of some dude x way over there changing his race should trump another group's having made mistakes in the beginning and wanting to change their race for a reasonable fee. This is not a "hardcore" game. There is no permadeath, and "choices and consequences" holds much less importance than it would in a hardcore game. Neither should there be a block to race changing.
The D&D in this game is already heavily compromised towards an action MMO, and it's none the worse for it. A race change option should be included.
If you're in an rp guild, it's up to you to OOC-ly convince the guildie who wants to race change not to do so, or kick him.
Thanks for clarifying... At least there is hope we will be able to re-roll our ability scores some day... lack of which prevent me from changing to another build effectively.
??
Personally, I'm an old curmudgeon that doesn't min/max but I have no problem with the concept of race changes.
I already have 8 character slots and 7 60's, they will already get 1 more set of character slots for ranger/warlock out of me anyway.
However I will not level another GWF/GF/DC, nor will I gear my current ones because they are so far from optimal. So by adding race changes they would receive 3k zen for 3 race changes, and a great deal more for gear and zen items for those characters. Many others are in the same boat as me, already have multiple classes at 60, and don't want to replay all those characters.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.