LOL so they are not changing the fact that certain damage types ignore DR, EXCEPT FOR TENE"S. They aren't changing the fact that enchantment damage cannot be deflected, EXCEPT FOR TENE"s. And they aren't changing the fact that dodging an attack means that the enchant never had a chance to go off and so it doesn't lose its cooldown, EXCEPT FOR TENE"S.
Even the staunch opponents of Tenebrous have to agree that this is just asinine, and that if fundamental changes aren't made then they shouldn't just duct tape fix Tene b/c players that refuse to get better in pvp are crying about it.
Well didnt you admit they would be changing ALOT about the game just to tweak this one enchant? But then if they just change the one enchant your mad about that too?
Seems like a no win for you.
I am still holding out because maybe the CD is brought back to 8 second instead of 20, so eventhough it factors in dodge and DR itll still do good damage if a shorter CD is brought back.
I never said tenes were not good and were not the prevalent strategy, i am saying that new builds are emerging and if you give it time tenes are just going to be another build amonst all the others
The scissors i dont use to simbolise a specific item, i am talking people fail to see the whole aspect of the game where you learn to use the knowledge all the tools at your disposal to deal with various strategies
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xmeanseason305xMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 109Bounty Hunter
LOL so they are not changing the fact that certain damage types ignore DR, EXCEPT FOR TENE"S. They aren't changing the fact that enchantment damage cannot be deflected, EXCEPT FOR TENE"s. And they aren't changing the fact that dodging an attack means that the enchant never had a chance to go off and so it doesn't lose its cooldown, EXCEPT FOR TENE"S.
Even the staunch opponents of Tenebrous have to agree that this is just asinine, and that if fundamental changes aren't made then they shouldn't just duct tape fix Tene b/c players that refuse to get better in pvp are crying about it.
Yeah i agree...if you are gonna nerfhammer this than might as well nerfhammer shockin execution and whirlwind of blades ... Since they both ALSO ignore armor AND eat through soulforge last i checked...
Well didnt you admit they would be changing ALOT about the game just to tweak this one enchant? But then if they just change the one enchant your mad about that too?
Yes they would have to change a lot to change the tene, that doesn't mean that all that change is unnecessary if they are going to nerf it. My argument is that they need to leave it as is because the people that are complaining are the ones that refuse to get better in PvP. They want to be hand fed equal PvP matches by being matched up with equally terrible opponents not by getting better themselves.
If Devs are going to change the tene they shouldn't just half *** it and pretend that fundamental game mechanics now don't apply to this single enchant. At the very very least it still needs to be on par with a R9-10 enchant b/c it costs more than 1 to make AND it requires a cash transaction where no other regular enchants and only a few weapon/armor enchants do.
Who is going to buy their next lockbox item if they know it will be nerfed in a couple months? Why am I the consumer ever going to spend any more money on new items when I know in the back of my mind "this will only be good for a month or so, then I won't even be able to sell any more".
This makes no programming sense and it certainly makes no economical sense. Reconsider what you're doing here Cryptic, these Tene hate threads are started by the same 3-5 people everytime, this is not the overall consensus of your player base, ESPECIALLY not your paying player base.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Yeah i agree...if you are gonna nerfhammer this than might as well nerfhammer shockin execution and whirlwind of blades ... Since they both ALSO ignore armor AND eat through soulforge last i checked...
I agree on this, SE does need a nerf, its really plain stupid how good it is. Cuts through ALL DR? Ive literally 1 shot people at FULL hp on my TR using this ability. It can crit for 20k+ on a 100% target. That should not happen...
I never said tenes were not good and were not the prevalent strategy, i am saying that new builds are emerging and if you give it time tenes are just going to be another build amonst all the others
The scissors i dont use to symbolize a specific item, i am talking people fail to see the whole aspect of the game where you learn to use the knowledge all the tools at your disposal to deal with various strategies
I dont disagree with you, but its pretty safe to argue, and I have been doing this for some time now, that Tenebs are overpowered. Its really easy to see that.
Now that tenebs are getting the nerf hammer, your comment is more accurate that more builds are emerging.
I am glad they finally listened however I hope they dont go too far like they did with stalwarts and others... Only time will tell.
As a whole, I agree with posts above they need to be careful about breaking this because it costs real money to open lockboxes and they might ruin future purchases. Although when something is blatantly OP, you have to expect its getting a nerf...
I just hope they dont ONLY do as discussed above but add some positive changes to make it not completely suck. Its been worthless in PVE for so long, id love to see the burst capability of it diminished (looks like this will happen) and the actual DPS of the enchant buffed.
But dont act all high and mighty like youve "evolved" past them because they are beneath you when most of your A-team players use them, and rightfully so.
Who has been acting like that? I'm curious. All that's been pointed out is that there are builds which are equally comparable to the strength of Tenes, just because you don't see people using them doesn't mean they dont exist. Like Alt and I have pointed out, there are ton of builds out there that people use and compete with, against people with Tenes all the time. And they are successful.
On top of that you have things like Barkshield, not to mention certain fixes they could implement to make it even more fair, like the dodge problem, or tenes going through SF. There are so many ways to work around Tenes, these changes simply destroy their entire usability.
Look at the AH, already have Gtenes going for 1.8mil lol
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
So now you will be able to dodge an enchant with an ICD, and it will still go on cooldown? Seems legit. I guess if I can dodge my own potion why shouldn't this be the case.
Allow me to speak the universal language with you devs, MATH!
For a CW or TR, let's say you get up to 28kish life on one of these, fairly standard for a high end PVP build. Now with tenebrous if we have FULL LIFE, you're looking at roughly 6k damage every 20 seconds. Now considering a build using some dark 10s and some radiant 10s, a CW or TR would have to output roughly 40,000 damage in that 20 seconds to make up this damage. Mind you that's easy vs another CW, TR, and you can probably get close against a bad GWF or GF, but not against good ones. Now mind you CW and TR won't be full life all the time, and tenebrous are based on life, so really their damage numbers will be a lot lower in practice. After the patch with the way you currently described it, the amount of damage accounting for defense reduction, dodges, and deflects that you would have to put out to make up the tenebrous damage difference will be in the neighborhood of 13-15k. 1 lashing blade, a couple impact shots, or 1 icy rays, ice knife, or chill strike can reach these numbers. Again this is assuming full life, I shutter to think of the damage output needed to overtake if you've been hit, I could probably magic missile for a round for more damage...
Now let's consider a high end senti, sitting at 42k life+, his tenebrous are hitting for nearly 9k every 20 seconds. Can a senti GWF output the 60k damage in 20 seconds using darks / radiant 10s to make up for tenebrous? LOL. Now after the patch, their damage needed will be 19.5k-22.5k, and guess what, they'd still be hard pressed to do this much against another senti, but probably can reach that amount vs a CW or TR. Again this is from full life, in practice someone will not have full life for long.
I emplore you, the person receiving the biggest benefit from this will be senti GWF, they have high deflect, high defense, high hp, and already output more damage than they should being this tanky, now they will practically be unkillable with this change.
While I'm here raging, why do the GWF and GF have more CC than a CW in PVP? Their knockdowns are ridiculous and it takes forever to get back up, knock down / prone is too OP. There is nothing to resist this besides a dwarf race, while GF / GWF can practically ignore the CC of CW either with shield, unstoppable, or elven battle. For the most part CWs will freeze or stun for maybe .5s, while a knockdown from GF or GWF takes nearly 3 seconds to recover from.
Basic point of my thread, you are making Senti GWF and GF THAT MUCH STRONGER in PVP and they already NEED A NERF. Their damage output and CC is already too high for classes this tanky.
don't know how any one can spend real money on this game now days you don't even get what u pay for in the game as they just break it and that is if it was ever working in first place
Basic point of my thread, you are making Senti GWF and GF THAT MUCH STRONGER in PVP and they already NEED A NERF. Their damage output and CC is already too high for classes this tanky.
I agree with alot of what you said, but GWFs without tene dont do alot of damage.
I agree on a whole this will buff GWF by comparison.
I mean most people havnt probably tested this, but the 4th boon on a GWF with high deflect is just stupid... A gwf in our guild has this and its just dumb.
Itll be interesting to see the changes to this, maybe it wont reset the CD who knows. Maybe the CD will be brought back down to 8 seconds to compensate for the DR/def factors... Maybe itll do radiant damage, I mean who knows!
Sorry didn't quote...but to the one who mentioned about SOE changing the SWG combat system:
SOE didn't suffer for the NGE...
The doomsayers said the game would die and it ended up running for another 6 years until SWTOR came out.
Lmfao they lost **** loads because of the NGE, the game run bit was never the same again and most of the HC players left after that.
This is no different, you screw with something that the top end competitive use and then you remove a lot of people who spend **** loads on your game.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but just like lots of other mmo's that have came and gone and are stuck on people's shelves covered in dust, free to play or not.
The one thing whether you you spent $10 or spent $10000 bucks in an mmo, that you will never get back, and that's time.
Plenty have invested a lot of time, and that's what makes them cut their nose to spite their face and leave.
I know it, you know it and they will know it.
People don't like to have that wasted.
They didnt lose people because of Tennes enchant users killing people in pvp, but nerfing it so much they lose those who inveted time and money into something that should have been changed long ago and not just left as is!
trippy...I'd love to see a GWF with more cc than a CW... really, it's takedown, and may be flourish. And then?... Roar+takedown+flourish? Still not even close to a CW cc...
I do agree with people that complain about the DR thing on tenes nerf, but still...
a single enchant can be stacked 6 times, dealing 3% of your hps as damage each. On tank builds with 33-38k hp we're talking about 18% of their hp. Which is from 6 to 7k damage added to your normal damage. On a tank build. Now, even if it's reduced to 4 or 5k more damage... is it really bad? Hell, i think it's still a lot better than most enchants out there.
That's why i don't understand all this drama.
Still ,they could basically change the damage on "3% of base hp" and the result would be the same, no need to change how necrotic damage works. Would also basically reduce a bit the difference in bonus damage between a tank build and a normal build, making the enchant effectiveness more similar for all the users (right now, the difference of damage bonus between, let's say, a TR using tenes, and a sentinel using the same tenes, is huge).
But there would still be complaints, even if tenes are still very good compared to other enchants you can use.
I mean most people havnt probably tested this, but the 4th boon on a GWF with high deflect is just stupid... A gwf in our guild has this and its just dumb.
I should have mentioned that as well. Most high end GWFs have 40-45% deflect, so you're right on nearly half the hits you do on them, you are taking that 400 damage from the last boon. Same with TRs in ITC, 100% of the hits you do on them you take that damage. God forbid you have a dot on them like coi, ray of enfeeblement, bleed tick from TR, or Brand of the Sun on DC.
Lmfao they lost **** loads because of the NGE, the game run bit was never the same again and most of the HC players left after that.
This is no different, you screw with something that the top end competitive use and then you remove a lot of people who spend **** loads on your game.
I would probably still play SWG if they didn't ruin all the class options and make it so linear. That was one of the best games I've ever played, you could make a completely custom character with whatever skills you wanted even if they had nothing in common.
I was a terra kasi master (hand to hand combat) and a commando (flamethrower, heavy weapons) and it was awesome lol. I quit the game the day they made it a completely linear piece of garbage.
Continue making those dedicated players unhappy and they will stop paying for your service, it's as simple as that.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
This situation should be a lesson to all MMO producers everywhere:
Thoroughly test your **** before releasing it. Do NOT release **** that is too OP, increment in small steps.
Because if you release broken, untested OP stuff like the GTEs, you end up in a lose-lose situation, whatever path you choose as a dev will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off a lot of people.
24 pages of discussion about a lamearse enchant, with even more lamearse threats of "I sue you!", "I go to my bank!", "I'm taking my toys (and MONEY!!!) and leave!" and so on.
All of it essentially because now it will be a bit harder to kill people in a ladderless, rankless broken PvP system.
trippy...I'd love to see a GWF with more cc than a CW... really, it's takedown, and may be flourish. And then?... Roar+takedown+flourish? Still not even close to a CW cc...
Let's just take a GWF vs CW fight then, they have takedown, roar, and flourish and that will take a CW down for probably 8 seconds. Now let's say you have a CW who in a rotation has shard, icy rays, chill strike, and steal time, which would be a stupid pvp rotation but a best case CC scenario, along with ray of frost of course. Now let's put an elven battle on both, the GWF is still ccing for those 8 seconds, while the CW in a rotation might do 5 seconds if you're lucky and hit him outside unstoppable with everything, if you're unlucky and hit him in unstoppable with shard, then you'd be lucky to see 2 seconds of CC in that rotation.
There are certainly many skilled players with GTE, but in my experience that skill is not necessary for a GTE-stacked build or team to dominate skilled non-GTE opponents. GTE vs GTE may be fun when it happens, but applying basic combat logic this enchant will, in my opinion, greatly enhance competitive PVP gameplay.
Another reason I support this nerf: New players or alt builds might not have access to tenes in the future. Same is true with Seal of the Executioner, its not quite fair that BiS PVP gear may not be available anywhere but the AH, intermittently, for tens of millions.
Finally, as a TR, I'm happy if you apply basic combat logic to my shockingly easy kill button.
I should have mentioned that as well. Most high end GWFs have 40-45% deflect, so you're right on nearly half the hits you do on them, you are taking that 400 damage from the last boon. Same with TRs in ITC, 100% of the hits you do on them you take that damage. God forbid you have a dot on them like coi, ray of enfeeblement, bleed tick from TR, or Brand of the Sun on DC.
I believe the cooldown on that boon is 60 seconds, and it is not consistently applied. So it isn't quite as deadly as that.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Personally, if they have back or took the toy back i dom't think's we care about it. For 3-4 player that leave, there almost 50 that come in the game. You made your char for use Bug or Op item for pvp, now take the nerf and stop cry. I didn't cry when they took 5 sec from my AD, i didn't cry when they reduce the atk power of HoF, i didn't crey when all the other class can one shot me. Stop tell " i took away my money", " i will call my bank". The only thinks your bank can do, is smile on your face. They gived you a service ( the key for the lockbox ) and worked fine, because you was able to open the box. So stop cry and change game if you don't like it.
Personally, if they have back or took the toy back i dom't think's we care about it. For 3-4 player that leave, there almost 50 that come in the game. You made your char for use Bug or Op item for pvp, now take the nerf and stop cry. I didn't cry when they took 5 sec from my AD, i didn't cry when they reduce the atk power of HoF, i didn't crey when all the other class can one shot me. Stop tell " i took away my money", " i will call my bank". The only thinks your bank can do, is smile on your face. They gived you a service ( the key for the lockbox ) and worked fine, because you was able to open the box. So stop cry and change game if you don't like it
Um more than 3-4 players spent a lot on tene's. Let's just assume your numbers are correct. Cryptic loses 3-4 players that consistently spent sizable amounts on the game to gear their characters and in exchange they get 50 new players that join b/c PvP is "easier". They don't spend a dime and cry on the forums every time they die in PvP, sounds like a great deal for cryptic right?
Lol and comparing cooldown and skill balancing changes to real money transactions is laughable. You will get still get 1 shot by TR's without tene's btw, that's b/c you're bad not an OP enchant...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
The only thing bad about this change is it should have happened months ago when everyone was asking for it. Also the cooldown should also be looked at or maybe look at having only one proc at a time.
Lmfao they lost **** loads because of the NGE, the game run bit was never the same again and most of the HC players left after that.
This is no different, you screw with something that the top end competitive use and then you remove a lot of people who spend **** loads on your game.
Controversial perhaps, but far from making SOE suffer...
Even some of the hardcore players did come back to the game and some a year or two afterwards. They found the game replaced by more people that wanted to play Jedi rather than have to grind it out pre-NGE. SOE didn't really lose anybody except the crybabies that can't handle change. Even the hardcore players kept subscribing just to use the forums. Maybe they took an initial hit the first few months, but over time they survived for several years. If changing the combat system was a gamebreaker, you would have seen SWG close up shop much sooner. Even the closing of the different servers didn't happen until 2009 and that was 4 years after the NGE. Besides, many of those servers were low-population since before 2005.
Even Smeds said this:
"We also had the very basic business problem of needing to appeal to a wider audience of players in order to keep the game growing rather than seeing the audience dwindle down over time."
So, even before the NGE, they were losing subs (more than likely the CU had to do with this).
By the way, I played on Bria off and on up until mid-2010.
Nope, i don't do pvp whit tene. I don't have prob on pvp, i get onehsotted and i oneshot my enemy too. I used money too on the game, but i didn't build my char on the tene because was obvious was an Op ench and a easy way to win. Only because some guys spent 100-200 $ on something 1 times, this not mean they will do it again. Let them work on the tene and let's see if the change will be so bad. This was a fix needed, the prob is too late now ^^ That's why people are angry and tell, like all the time they try fix somethings that go vs the pvp comunity, they will ask money back or leave the game.
Who has been acting like that? I'm curious. All that's been pointed out is that there are builds which are equally comparable to the strength of Tenes, just because you don't see people using them doesn't mean they dont exist. Like Alt and I have pointed out, there are ton of builds out there that people use and compete with, against people with Tenes all the time. And they are successful.
On top of that you have things like Barkshield, not to mention certain fixes they could implement to make it even more fair, like the dodge problem, or tenes going through SF. There are so many ways to work around Tenes, these changes simply destroy their entire usability.
Look at the AH, already have Gtenes going for 1.8mil lol
The goal is to make them less overpowered in pvp. The changes are suppose to make them less usable. They are best in slot for every class but DC. Just look at all the pvp videos of high end tournys. Its basically tene vs tene
1. I actually think this will have the opposite effect: I think more people will join or come back to NW now that tennys are getting the nerf. Also, the amount of people who paid money for tennys are a fairly minimal portion of the NW population. Considering the fact they have the best enchants in game and aren't spending money for more means Cryptic will not miss them.
2. Thank you for admitting the obvious truth. Many are still in denial about this.
^^ agreed. To have any kind of ranked pvp, tenes need to go
Let's just take a GWF vs CW fight then, they have takedown, roar, and flourish and that will take a CW down for probably 8 seconds. Now let's say you have a CW who in a rotation has shard, icy rays, chill strike, and steal time, which would be a stupid pvp rotation but a best case CC scenario, along with ray of frost of course. Now let's put an elven battle on both, the GWF is still ccing for those 8 seconds, while the CW in a rotation might do 5 seconds if you're lucky and hit him outside unstoppable with everything, if you're unlucky and hit him in unstoppable with shard, then you'd be lucky to see 2 seconds of CC in that rotation.
No. Where did you get the numbers? Takedown is 3 seconds, roar is may be 1 second, no more, and the same is flourish.
So you have a total of 5 seconds AT BEST. Meaning if a GWF use only the cc encounters. Which means losing all the damage from IBS, for example. Or the healing from restoring strike.
And 5 seconds are still a lot less than what a CW can do if specced properly.
Also, if you throw your encounters while a GWF is in Unstoppable... i'm sorry, but that's your fault... you should just avoid him during those 4 seconds (rarely the 8 seconds of a full unstoppable) using your teleports.
A GWF with roar+takedown+flourish in no way can deliver enough damage in just one rotation (roar is about 1k damage, takedown 2.8k), and after that rotation he will be in cooldown, while you would soon have your cc up again.
Seriously, i can understand the complaints about GFs chain prone (still, a CW can easily guess when he will charge and teleport), but GWF cc is far behind a CW's or a GF's...
Usually you get flourish+ takedown, or roar+ takedown. 4 seconds of cc. And the dodge teleport immunity is enough to dodge those encounters and send them on cooldown.
A GWF with roar can fool you the first time, but the next time? You see him facing you and in range to use roar? You teleport and his roar goes on cooldown. Roar users tend to throw it as soon as they can, so you don't even have to worry about wasting that teleport. Just have to time it right.
One thing i like about the fighting mechanincs of this game is that a lot of stuff is about timing and dodging.
Nastiest CWs are the ones who wait for your animation to start before dodging (GWF close range encounters like takedown, IBS or even flourish have slow, easily dodgeable animations compared to other classes) and use the knockback abd high mobility to lock you in a cc loop, making you struggle to even reach them.
Easiest ones...those who unload all theirs cc, then teleport as soon as you get close. You just run, they teleport 3 times, then you get them with a last sprint-takedown exc...
Right now, from my point of view i have ways to counter almost anything if the gear difference is not too big.
0
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
Well didnt you admit they would be changing ALOT about the game just to tweak this one enchant? But then if they just change the one enchant your mad about that too?
Seems like a no win for you.
I am still holding out because maybe the CD is brought back to 8 second instead of 20, so eventhough it factors in dodge and DR itll still do good damage if a shorter CD is brought back.
The scissors i dont use to simbolise a specific item, i am talking people fail to see the whole aspect of the game where you learn to use the knowledge all the tools at your disposal to deal with various strategies
Yeah i agree...if you are gonna nerfhammer this than might as well nerfhammer shockin execution and whirlwind of blades ... Since they both ALSO ignore armor AND eat through soulforge last i checked...
Yes they would have to change a lot to change the tene, that doesn't mean that all that change is unnecessary if they are going to nerf it. My argument is that they need to leave it as is because the people that are complaining are the ones that refuse to get better in PvP. They want to be hand fed equal PvP matches by being matched up with equally terrible opponents not by getting better themselves.
If Devs are going to change the tene they shouldn't just half *** it and pretend that fundamental game mechanics now don't apply to this single enchant. At the very very least it still needs to be on par with a R9-10 enchant b/c it costs more than 1 to make AND it requires a cash transaction where no other regular enchants and only a few weapon/armor enchants do.
Who is going to buy their next lockbox item if they know it will be nerfed in a couple months? Why am I the consumer ever going to spend any more money on new items when I know in the back of my mind "this will only be good for a month or so, then I won't even be able to sell any more".
This makes no programming sense and it certainly makes no economical sense. Reconsider what you're doing here Cryptic, these Tene hate threads are started by the same 3-5 people everytime, this is not the overall consensus of your player base, ESPECIALLY not your paying player base.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I agree on this, SE does need a nerf, its really plain stupid how good it is. Cuts through ALL DR? Ive literally 1 shot people at FULL hp on my TR using this ability. It can crit for 20k+ on a 100% target. That should not happen...
I dont disagree with you, but its pretty safe to argue, and I have been doing this for some time now, that Tenebs are overpowered. Its really easy to see that.
Now that tenebs are getting the nerf hammer, your comment is more accurate that more builds are emerging.
I am glad they finally listened however I hope they dont go too far like they did with stalwarts and others... Only time will tell.
As a whole, I agree with posts above they need to be careful about breaking this because it costs real money to open lockboxes and they might ruin future purchases. Although when something is blatantly OP, you have to expect its getting a nerf...
I just hope they dont ONLY do as discussed above but add some positive changes to make it not completely suck. Its been worthless in PVE for so long, id love to see the burst capability of it diminished (looks like this will happen) and the actual DPS of the enchant buffed.
Who has been acting like that? I'm curious. All that's been pointed out is that there are builds which are equally comparable to the strength of Tenes, just because you don't see people using them doesn't mean they dont exist. Like Alt and I have pointed out, there are ton of builds out there that people use and compete with, against people with Tenes all the time. And they are successful.
On top of that you have things like Barkshield, not to mention certain fixes they could implement to make it even more fair, like the dodge problem, or tenes going through SF. There are so many ways to work around Tenes, these changes simply destroy their entire usability.
Look at the AH, already have Gtenes going for 1.8mil lol
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
SOE didn't suffer for the NGE...
The doomsayers said the game would die and it ended up running for another 6 years until SWTOR came out.
Allow me to speak the universal language with you devs, MATH!
For a CW or TR, let's say you get up to 28kish life on one of these, fairly standard for a high end PVP build. Now with tenebrous if we have FULL LIFE, you're looking at roughly 6k damage every 20 seconds. Now considering a build using some dark 10s and some radiant 10s, a CW or TR would have to output roughly 40,000 damage in that 20 seconds to make up this damage. Mind you that's easy vs another CW, TR, and you can probably get close against a bad GWF or GF, but not against good ones. Now mind you CW and TR won't be full life all the time, and tenebrous are based on life, so really their damage numbers will be a lot lower in practice. After the patch with the way you currently described it, the amount of damage accounting for defense reduction, dodges, and deflects that you would have to put out to make up the tenebrous damage difference will be in the neighborhood of 13-15k. 1 lashing blade, a couple impact shots, or 1 icy rays, ice knife, or chill strike can reach these numbers. Again this is assuming full life, I shutter to think of the damage output needed to overtake if you've been hit, I could probably magic missile for a round for more damage...
Now let's consider a high end senti, sitting at 42k life+, his tenebrous are hitting for nearly 9k every 20 seconds. Can a senti GWF output the 60k damage in 20 seconds using darks / radiant 10s to make up for tenebrous? LOL. Now after the patch, their damage needed will be 19.5k-22.5k, and guess what, they'd still be hard pressed to do this much against another senti, but probably can reach that amount vs a CW or TR. Again this is from full life, in practice someone will not have full life for long.
I emplore you, the person receiving the biggest benefit from this will be senti GWF, they have high deflect, high defense, high hp, and already output more damage than they should being this tanky, now they will practically be unkillable with this change.
While I'm here raging, why do the GWF and GF have more CC than a CW in PVP? Their knockdowns are ridiculous and it takes forever to get back up, knock down / prone is too OP. There is nothing to resist this besides a dwarf race, while GF / GWF can practically ignore the CC of CW either with shield, unstoppable, or elven battle. For the most part CWs will freeze or stun for maybe .5s, while a knockdown from GF or GWF takes nearly 3 seconds to recover from.
Basic point of my thread, you are making Senti GWF and GF THAT MUCH STRONGER in PVP and they already NEED A NERF. Their damage output and CC is already too high for classes this tanky.
I agree with alot of what you said, but GWFs without tene dont do alot of damage.
I agree on a whole this will buff GWF by comparison.
I mean most people havnt probably tested this, but the 4th boon on a GWF with high deflect is just stupid... A gwf in our guild has this and its just dumb.
Itll be interesting to see the changes to this, maybe it wont reset the CD who knows. Maybe the CD will be brought back down to 8 seconds to compensate for the DR/def factors... Maybe itll do radiant damage, I mean who knows!
Lmfao they lost **** loads because of the NGE, the game run bit was never the same again and most of the HC players left after that.
This is no different, you screw with something that the top end competitive use and then you remove a lot of people who spend **** loads on your game.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but just like lots of other mmo's that have came and gone and are stuck on people's shelves covered in dust, free to play or not.
The one thing whether you you spent $10 or spent $10000 bucks in an mmo, that you will never get back, and that's time.
Plenty have invested a lot of time, and that's what makes them cut their nose to spite their face and leave.
I know it, you know it and they will know it.
People don't like to have that wasted.
They didnt lose people because of Tennes enchant users killing people in pvp, but nerfing it so much they lose those who inveted time and money into something that should have been changed long ago and not just left as is!
I do agree with people that complain about the DR thing on tenes nerf, but still...
a single enchant can be stacked 6 times, dealing 3% of your hps as damage each. On tank builds with 33-38k hp we're talking about 18% of their hp. Which is from 6 to 7k damage added to your normal damage. On a tank build. Now, even if it's reduced to 4 or 5k more damage... is it really bad? Hell, i think it's still a lot better than most enchants out there.
That's why i don't understand all this drama.
Still ,they could basically change the damage on "3% of base hp" and the result would be the same, no need to change how necrotic damage works. Would also basically reduce a bit the difference in bonus damage between a tank build and a normal build, making the enchant effectiveness more similar for all the users (right now, the difference of damage bonus between, let's say, a TR using tenes, and a sentinel using the same tenes, is huge).
But there would still be complaints, even if tenes are still very good compared to other enchants you can use.
I should have mentioned that as well. Most high end GWFs have 40-45% deflect, so you're right on nearly half the hits you do on them, you are taking that 400 damage from the last boon. Same with TRs in ITC, 100% of the hits you do on them you take that damage. God forbid you have a dot on them like coi, ray of enfeeblement, bleed tick from TR, or Brand of the Sun on DC.
I would probably still play SWG if they didn't ruin all the class options and make it so linear. That was one of the best games I've ever played, you could make a completely custom character with whatever skills you wanted even if they had nothing in common.
I was a terra kasi master (hand to hand combat) and a commando (flamethrower, heavy weapons) and it was awesome lol. I quit the game the day they made it a completely linear piece of garbage.
Continue making those dedicated players unhappy and they will stop paying for your service, it's as simple as that.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Thoroughly test your **** before releasing it. Do NOT release **** that is too OP, increment in small steps.
Because if you release broken, untested OP stuff like the GTEs, you end up in a lose-lose situation, whatever path you choose as a dev will <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off a lot of people.
24 pages of discussion about a lamearse enchant, with even more lamearse threats of "I sue you!", "I go to my bank!", "I'm taking my toys (and MONEY!!!) and leave!" and so on.
All of it essentially because now it will be a bit harder to kill people in a ladderless, rankless broken PvP system.
Right.
Let's just take a GWF vs CW fight then, they have takedown, roar, and flourish and that will take a CW down for probably 8 seconds. Now let's say you have a CW who in a rotation has shard, icy rays, chill strike, and steal time, which would be a stupid pvp rotation but a best case CC scenario, along with ray of frost of course. Now let's put an elven battle on both, the GWF is still ccing for those 8 seconds, while the CW in a rotation might do 5 seconds if you're lucky and hit him outside unstoppable with everything, if you're unlucky and hit him in unstoppable with shard, then you'd be lucky to see 2 seconds of CC in that rotation.
There are certainly many skilled players with GTE, but in my experience that skill is not necessary for a GTE-stacked build or team to dominate skilled non-GTE opponents. GTE vs GTE may be fun when it happens, but applying basic combat logic this enchant will, in my opinion, greatly enhance competitive PVP gameplay.
Another reason I support this nerf: New players or alt builds might not have access to tenes in the future. Same is true with Seal of the Executioner, its not quite fair that BiS PVP gear may not be available anywhere but the AH, intermittently, for tens of millions.
Finally, as a TR, I'm happy if you apply basic combat logic to my shockingly easy kill button.
I believe the cooldown on that boon is 60 seconds, and it is not consistently applied. So it isn't quite as deadly as that.
Not true, I've killed so many players just by afk/tanking them in 21 seconds. The 400 damage procs tenebrous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= http://www.youtube.com/user/moegoodtime
This time the Dev do the right things, finally.
Um more than 3-4 players spent a lot on tene's. Let's just assume your numbers are correct. Cryptic loses 3-4 players that consistently spent sizable amounts on the game to gear their characters and in exchange they get 50 new players that join b/c PvP is "easier". They don't spend a dime and cry on the forums every time they die in PvP, sounds like a great deal for cryptic right?
Lol and comparing cooldown and skill balancing changes to real money transactions is laughable. You will get still get 1 shot by TR's without tene's btw, that's b/c you're bad not an OP enchant...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Controversial perhaps, but far from making SOE suffer...
Even some of the hardcore players did come back to the game and some a year or two afterwards. They found the game replaced by more people that wanted to play Jedi rather than have to grind it out pre-NGE. SOE didn't really lose anybody except the crybabies that can't handle change. Even the hardcore players kept subscribing just to use the forums. Maybe they took an initial hit the first few months, but over time they survived for several years. If changing the combat system was a gamebreaker, you would have seen SWG close up shop much sooner. Even the closing of the different servers didn't happen until 2009 and that was 4 years after the NGE. Besides, many of those servers were low-population since before 2005.
Even Smeds said this:
"We also had the very basic business problem of needing to appeal to a wider audience of players in order to keep the game growing rather than seeing the audience dwindle down over time."
So, even before the NGE, they were losing subs (more than likely the CU had to do with this).
By the way, I played on Bria off and on up until mid-2010.
The goal is to make them less overpowered in pvp. The changes are suppose to make them less usable. They are best in slot for every class but DC. Just look at all the pvp videos of high end tournys. Its basically tene vs tene
^^ agreed. To have any kind of ranked pvp, tenes need to go
No. Where did you get the numbers? Takedown is 3 seconds, roar is may be 1 second, no more, and the same is flourish.
So you have a total of 5 seconds AT BEST. Meaning if a GWF use only the cc encounters. Which means losing all the damage from IBS, for example. Or the healing from restoring strike.
And 5 seconds are still a lot less than what a CW can do if specced properly.
Also, if you throw your encounters while a GWF is in Unstoppable... i'm sorry, but that's your fault... you should just avoid him during those 4 seconds (rarely the 8 seconds of a full unstoppable) using your teleports.
A GWF with roar+takedown+flourish in no way can deliver enough damage in just one rotation (roar is about 1k damage, takedown 2.8k), and after that rotation he will be in cooldown, while you would soon have your cc up again.
Seriously, i can understand the complaints about GFs chain prone (still, a CW can easily guess when he will charge and teleport), but GWF cc is far behind a CW's or a GF's...
Usually you get flourish+ takedown, or roar+ takedown. 4 seconds of cc. And the dodge teleport immunity is enough to dodge those encounters and send them on cooldown.
A GWF with roar can fool you the first time, but the next time? You see him facing you and in range to use roar? You teleport and his roar goes on cooldown. Roar users tend to throw it as soon as they can, so you don't even have to worry about wasting that teleport. Just have to time it right.
One thing i like about the fighting mechanincs of this game is that a lot of stuff is about timing and dodging.
Nastiest CWs are the ones who wait for your animation to start before dodging (GWF close range encounters like takedown, IBS or even flourish have slow, easily dodgeable animations compared to other classes) and use the knockback abd high mobility to lock you in a cc loop, making you struggle to even reach them.
Easiest ones...those who unload all theirs cc, then teleport as soon as you get close. You just run, they teleport 3 times, then you get them with a last sprint-takedown exc...
Right now, from my point of view i have ways to counter almost anything if the gear difference is not too big.
There was a GF in our guild who purposefully didn't slot Stalwart's set well before the nerf because he knew it was OP and would get nerfed.
There were many CWs in our guild who knew the HV set would get nerfed long before the nerf.
And you didn't see this coming? This should have happened months ago.
Buyer beware. You own nothing.
Thank you, Cryptic!
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